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| 2025-01-17 01:04:01 +0100 | weary-traveler | (~user@user/user363627) user363627 |
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| 2025-01-17 01:41:35 +0100 | zero | yin |
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| 2025-01-17 01:51:18 +0100 | <lcssz> | clear |
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| 2025-01-17 03:14:58 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
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| 2025-01-17 03:24:18 +0100 | <sm> | @where+ fast-haskell-redux https://jtobin.io/fast-haskell-redux performance optimisations (2025) |
| 2025-01-17 03:24:18 +0100 | <lambdabot> | Nice! |
| 2025-01-17 03:24:24 +0100 | ezzieyguywuf | (~Unknown@user/ezzieyguywuf) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-01-17 03:24:47 +0100 | weary-traveler | (~user@user/user363627) user363627 |
| 2025-01-17 03:26:21 +0100 | ezzieyguywuf | (~Unknown@user/ezzieyguywuf) ezzieyguywuf |
| 2025-01-17 03:27:16 +0100 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich |
| 2025-01-17 03:30:25 +0100 | housemate | (~housemate@146.70.66.228) (Quit: Nothing to see here. I wasn't there. I take IRC seriously. I do not work for any body DIRECTLY although I do represent BOT NET.) |
| 2025-01-17 03:33:00 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-17 03:33:39 +0100 | tnt2 | (~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) tnt1 |
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| 2025-01-17 03:34:06 +0100 | tnt2 | tnt1 |
| 2025-01-17 03:34:19 +0100 | ColinRobinson | (~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) JuanDaugherty |
| 2025-01-17 03:36:53 +0100 | Fijxu | (~Fijxu@user/fijxu) (Quit: XD!!) |
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| 2025-01-17 03:47:46 +0100 | chexum | (~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-01-17 03:47:57 +0100 | chexum | (~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum) chexum |
| 2025-01-17 03:48:23 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
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| 2025-01-17 03:48:30 +0100 | tnt2 | tnt1 |
| 2025-01-17 03:50:21 +0100 | ColinRobinson | JuanDaugherty |
| 2025-01-17 03:53:05 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-01-17 04:02:10 +0100 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-01-17 04:03:36 +0100 | user363627 | (~user@user/user363627) user363627 |
| 2025-01-17 04:03:46 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-17 04:07:01 +0100 | weary-traveler | (~user@user/user363627) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-01-17 04:09:03 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2025-01-17 04:13:34 +0100 | JuanDaugherty | ColinRobinson |
| 2025-01-17 04:15:58 +0100 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich |
| 2025-01-17 04:17:18 +0100 | fmira | (~user@user/fmira) fmira |
| 2025-01-17 04:19:09 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-17 04:21:10 +0100 | homo | (~homo@user/homo) homo |
| 2025-01-17 04:23:42 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-17 04:26:05 +0100 | <homo> | hi, I have some progress trying to bootstrap microhs from hugs, currently compile-time errors are fixed, but runtime is broken, I hope someone can continue from here, because this is as far as I can go https://0.vern.cc/Mm.patch |
| 2025-01-17 04:27:51 +0100 | Fijxu | (~Fijxu@user/fijxu) (Quit: XD!!) |
| 2025-01-17 04:29:40 +0100 | <Leary> | homo: I suggest you put this in a microhs issue; it'll just get lost in here. |
| 2025-01-17 04:30:53 +0100 | Fijxu | (~Fijxu@user/fijxu) fijxu |
| 2025-01-17 04:31:33 +0100 | <homo> | I don't have github account, so I sent this patch by e-mail to Lennart |
| 2025-01-17 04:31:58 +0100 | <Leary> | I guess that works too. |
| 2025-01-17 04:32:56 +0100 | ColinRobinson | JuanDaugherty |
| 2025-01-17 04:33:06 +0100 | <JuanDaugherty> | microhs looks ill conceived |
| 2025-01-17 04:34:32 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-17 04:35:16 +0100 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) Sgeo |
| 2025-01-17 04:35:33 +0100 | <homo> | well, microhs is the biggest implementation of haskell that might be cleanly bootstrapped from source |
| 2025-01-17 04:36:08 +0100 | <JuanDaugherty> | i doubt that |
| 2025-01-17 04:36:31 +0100 | <JuanDaugherty> | specifically i doubt that "cleanly" can be given an objective sense |
| 2025-01-17 04:36:56 +0100 | <homo> | clean bootstrap means that it doesn't depend on bootstrap binaries |
| 2025-01-17 04:37:15 +0100 | <homo> | #bootstrappable can bootstrap modern gcc by using 200-byte binary |
| 2025-01-17 04:37:28 +0100 | <homo> | reviewable 200-byte binary that is |
| 2025-01-17 04:37:36 +0100 | <homo> | that is what makes bootstrap clean |
| 2025-01-17 04:37:41 +0100 | <JuanDaugherty> | in addition to big fat thing having bounds period, practically |
| 2025-01-17 04:38:43 +0100 | <JuanDaugherty> | while ill conceived, these new infos certainly indicate entertainment value |
| 2025-01-17 04:39:32 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2025-01-17 04:39:43 +0100 | <JuanDaugherty> | big fat thing that doesn just need to book two seats but charter a damn flight |
| 2025-01-17 04:41:58 +0100 | terrorjack45 | (~terrorjac@2a01:4f8:c17:a66e::) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat) |
| 2025-01-17 04:43:02 +0100 | <jackdk> | homo: does this mean that you have a good bootstrap from C to Hugs? |
| 2025-01-17 04:43:52 +0100 | terrorjack45 | (~terrorjac@2a01:4f8:c17:a66e::) terrorjack |
| 2025-01-17 04:45:55 +0100 | <homo> | jackdk yes, since I'm using guix |
| 2025-01-17 04:46:28 +0100 | <jackdk> | Huh, the last I heard was someone's experiments with nhc98 to bootstrap Hugs. Did something change? |
| 2025-01-17 04:46:34 +0100 | JuanDaugherty | ColinRobinson |
| 2025-01-17 04:47:20 +0100 | <homo> | that person lost interest, expressing disappointment of lack of interest from haskell community in bootstrapping |
| 2025-01-17 04:49:55 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-17 04:56:35 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-17 05:02:13 +0100 | OftenFaded | (OftenFaded@user/tisktisk) (Quit: OftenFaded) |
| 2025-01-17 05:03:26 +0100 | notzmv | (~umar@user/notzmv) notzmv |
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| 2025-01-17 05:16:09 +0100 | weary-traveler | (~user@user/user363627) user363627 |
| 2025-01-17 05:18:18 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2025-01-17 05:20:04 +0100 | user363627 | (~user@user/user363627) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-17 05:21:35 +0100 | OftenFaded | (~OftenFade@user/tisktisk) OftenFaded |
| 2025-01-17 05:23:22 +0100 | m1dnight_ | (~m1dnight@d8D861908.access.telenet.be) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-17 05:24:08 +0100 | <jackdk> | homo: cool, I see you contributed the Hugs fix to Guix. I had formed the (possibly mistaken) impression that it carried blobs in its source - was it really just that little patch? |
| 2025-01-17 05:25:34 +0100 | m1dnight_ | (~m1dnight@d8D861908.access.telenet.be) m1dnight |
| 2025-01-17 05:26:09 +0100 | <jackdk> | Also, might be worth adding to https://discourse.haskell.org/t/keeping-hugs-alive/7737/5 ? |
| 2025-01-17 05:29:18 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-17 05:30:44 +0100 | ColinRobinson | JuanDaugherty |
| 2025-01-17 05:31:30 +0100 | dsrt^ | (~dsrt@108.192.66.114) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-01-17 05:32:04 +0100 | dnerdhm^ | (~dnerdhm@108.192.66.114) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-01-17 05:33:34 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> I use Hugs almost daily since my laptop broke, and I'm glad people are still working on it! Used to use Miranda but that got too slow too fast |
| 2025-01-17 05:33:36 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2025-01-17 05:34:18 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> The nix-on-droid build of Hugs also works well |
| 2025-01-17 05:35:12 +0100 | Fijxu | (~Fijxu@user/fijxu) (Quit: XD!!) |
| 2025-01-17 05:35:22 +0100 | <homo> | jackdk suprisingly yes, it's just gcc-specific internal that should not be used |
| 2025-01-17 05:36:17 +0100 | Square | (~Square@user/square) Square |
| 2025-01-17 05:36:32 +0100 | adamCS | (~adamCS@pool-100-33-243-37.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) adamCS |
| 2025-01-17 05:39:19 +0100 | Fijxu | (~Fijxu@user/fijxu) fijxu |
| 2025-01-17 05:41:14 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> Also I found two issues related to type level stuff. For example, trying to encode mendler-style catamorphisms Hugs fails to typecheck mcata, in particular it outputs "INTERNAL ERROR: depTypeExp" |
| 2025-01-17 05:42:18 +0100 | JuanDaugherty | ColinRobinson |
| 2025-01-17 05:43:07 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> The other issue is that a forall is not allowed as the first thing appearing in a type declaration, ie. ˋtype Example a = forall r. (a -> r) -> rˋ is disallowed, but its equivalent newtype is allowed. I think this is a syntax thing and not an inherent limitation |
| 2025-01-17 05:43:40 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> Note that reproducing both requires disabling Haskell 98 mode |
| 2025-01-17 05:44:41 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-17 05:47:20 +0100 | <homo> | Bowuigi hugs also doesn't allow forall in instance declarations, in my patch you can find I duplicated a lot of code, doing nothing but removing forall |
| 2025-01-17 05:48:43 +0100 | eL_Bart0 | (eL_Bart0@dietunichtguten.org) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2025-01-17 05:49:04 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-01-17 05:49:20 +0100 | <homo> | jackdk I use netsurf without javascript to avoid arbitrary code autoupdate and autoexecution, so I can only read discourse, but not post there |
| 2025-01-17 05:49:59 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> Do you mean something like QuantifiedInstances , like, having "forall a. Eq (f a)" or something like that? |
| 2025-01-17 05:52:33 +0100 | <homo> | Bowuigi for example "data State s a = S (s -> (a, s)); instance forall s . Functor (State s) where" is where I have to remove forall: "data State s a = S (s -> (a, s)); instance Functor (State s) where" |
| 2025-01-17 05:53:03 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> Oh also the depTypeExp issue happens with every System F omega encoded existential, so "newtype Exists f = Ex { unEx :: forall r. (forall a. (f a -> r) -> r) }" is the smallest example of this bug I can think of |
| 2025-01-17 05:53:24 +0100 | Square2 | (~Square4@user/square) Square |
| 2025-01-17 05:53:56 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> homo Oh I haven't seen that syntax before, Haskell already quantifies variables there so maybe it is a limitation of something else in the bootstrap chain? |
| 2025-01-17 05:55:38 +0100 | <homo> | Bowuigi microhs requires "forall" in all declarations because Lennart is lazy to make it optional, so I have 2 copies of same code, first copy is read by hugs and second copy is read by mhs, it's absolutely the same duplicated code |
| 2025-01-17 05:56:17 +0100 | <homo> | from his own words that is, Lennart said in his presentation that he is lazy |
| 2025-01-17 05:56:38 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> re:depTypeExp Oh you don't even need the f, "newtype E = E { unE :: forall r. (forall a. a -> r) -> r }" is a simpler example of this bug |
| 2025-01-17 05:57:14 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> Oh, would it be possible to patch Hugs to allow that? It should just ignore it because the behaviour is the same |
| 2025-01-17 05:57:42 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> re:microhs-hugs homo ^ |
| 2025-01-17 05:58:48 +0100 | web22 | (~00000000@91.sub-75-246-239.myvzw.com) |
| 2025-01-17 05:59:20 +0100 | <homo> | I have no experience with yacc and I already failed patching hugs's src/parser.y to support BangPatterns, so instead in my patch I created function "hugsBang" for both hugs, ghc and microhs because I don't want to remove optimization that bang patterns brings |
| 2025-01-17 06:00:03 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-17 06:00:17 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <maerwald> Hi homo |
| 2025-01-17 06:00:32 +0100 | <homo> | hi |
| 2025-01-17 06:01:54 +0100 | web22 | (~00000000@91.sub-75-246-239.myvzw.com) (Client Quit) |
| 2025-01-17 06:02:34 +0100 | <homo> | Bowuigi if you have experience with yacc, there are a lot of syntactic things that you might be able fix to avoid patching so much of microhs's code, but otherwise my interest in hugs is just to have small language to bootstrap bigger language |
| 2025-01-17 06:03:11 +0100 | <homo> | what really needs upgrade in hugs is its memory management, it crashes in deep recursions, making it tricky to have working bootstrap |
| 2025-01-17 06:03:18 +0100 | nschoe | (~nschoe@82-65-202-30.subs.proxad.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2025-01-17 06:03:52 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> Huh? Never seen it crash due to that |
| 2025-01-17 06:04:28 +0100 | <homo> | another big pain is not just that hugs's libraries are old, there are a lot of annoying name clashes and I have no idea which names to prefer and which to avoid in bootstrap process |
| 2025-01-17 06:04:34 +0100 | nschoe | (~nschoe@82-65-202-30.subs.proxad.net) nschoe |
| 2025-01-17 06:05:02 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2025-01-17 06:05:52 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> I have no experience with yacc sadly, but some sed/awk could fix your instance forall issues. Just keep the original code around and at build time run a script that replaces "instance forall [^\.]." by just "instance", you don't have to remove them by hand |
| 2025-01-17 06:07:49 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> Also play with Hugs' options, some may help with the recursion issues you're having |
| 2025-01-17 06:08:05 +0100 | dsrt^ | (~dsrt@108.192.66.114) |
| 2025-01-17 06:08:06 +0100 | dnerdhm^ | (~dnerdhm@108.192.66.114) |
| 2025-01-17 06:08:50 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> Also which name clashes? The lack of applicative and functor operators is annoying but that can be solved easily |
| 2025-01-17 06:09:44 +0100 | <homo> | thanks for idea, but I don't remember if I did something else besides removing forall from instance |
| 2025-01-17 06:12:27 +0100 | <homo> | Bowuigi for example, System.IO.Error clashes with Control.Exception |
| 2025-01-17 06:12:39 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> Diff is your friend here, any changes will stand out |
| 2025-01-17 06:13:23 +0100 | <homo> | Hugs.Prelude also clashes with Control.Exception |
| 2025-01-17 06:13:52 +0100 | <homo> | it also clashes with Data.Foldable and Data.Functor |
| 2025-01-17 06:14:09 +0100 | <homo> | s/it/Hugs.Prelude/ |
| 2025-01-17 06:14:56 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> That's so odd, why did they do that. How feasible is porting the microhs base library to Hugs? Using Hugs primitives, ofc |
| 2025-01-17 06:15:26 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-17 06:16:35 +0100 | <homo> | it already reuses some of microhs base library to avoid code duplication, I'd say it's just tedious to patch every individual module, and some modules are extremely tedious because of language extensions |
| 2025-01-17 06:19:49 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-01-17 06:20:00 +0100 | michalz | (~michalz@185.246.207.215) |
| 2025-01-17 06:20:09 +0100 | <homo> | also keep in mind libraries that hugs uses are the same libraries that ghc used 20 years ago, so if someone decides to fork hugs, there is a lot of tedious work to keep libraries up-to-date |
| 2025-01-17 06:21:13 +0100 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-01-17 06:26:27 +0100 | <homo> | Bowuigi anyway, those name clashes are very persistent, you either have to use qualified imports or to explicitly shut up Hugs.Prelude, but you don't want to explicitly shut up Hugs.Prelude because code read by ghc and microhs will not compile |
| 2025-01-17 06:30:35 +0100 | <homo> | reading the source code of hugs a lot of modules from base package already use primitives from hugsbase package, but that is not enough to shut name clashes |
| 2025-01-17 06:30:47 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-17 06:34:48 +0100 | <homo> | I don't think it's a good idea to port microhs base without adjusting hugsbase first, and it might be necessary to also adjust hugs interpreter itself before adjusting hugsbase |
| 2025-01-17 06:35:47 +0100 | weary-traveler | (~user@user/user363627) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-01-17 06:37:54 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-17 06:43:28 +0100 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) Sgeo |
| 2025-01-17 06:46:14 +0100 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-17 06:48:51 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-17 06:53:11 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-17 06:57:08 +0100 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-01-17 06:59:48 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-17 07:02:39 +0100 | takuan | (~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) |
| 2025-01-17 07:03:07 +0100 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) Sgeo |
| 2025-01-17 07:05:13 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d17fae8.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-01-17 07:05:56 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@77.23.250.232) |
| 2025-01-17 07:07:09 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-01-17 07:07:15 +0100 | alp | (~alp@2001:861:8ca0:4940:8a73:f3f6:adcb:ed3) |
| 2025-01-17 07:09:28 +0100 | <jle`> | huh kind of funny but (<>) for Maybe (First a) seems to be slower than (<>) for Endo (Maybe a) |
| 2025-01-17 07:09:42 +0100 | <jle`> | (and applying the second to Nothing) |
| 2025-01-17 07:09:52 +0100 | <jle`> | and using Endo . const . Just |
| 2025-01-17 07:10:08 +0100 | <jle`> | i guess it just compiles better? i would have expected them to end up being the same |
| 2025-01-17 07:10:34 +0100 | <jle`> | i'm even doing x <> (y <> ...) the good way |
| 2025-01-17 07:12:43 +0100 | _xor | (~xor@ip-66-42-132-175.dynamic.fuse.net) (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)) |
| 2025-01-17 07:14:58 +0100 | _xor | (~xor@ip-66-42-132-175.dynamic.fuse.net) _xor |
| 2025-01-17 07:17:42 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-17 07:18:03 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> homo just provide a wrapper that exports the safe parts of Hugs.Prelude and overimport just in case, that's the best option I can think of rn |
| 2025-01-17 07:19:24 +0100 | <Leary> | jle`: `Data.Monoid.First` exists for a reason; `Maybe . Data.Semigroup.First` can't just stop at the first `Just`. |
| 2025-01-17 07:20:51 +0100 | <Leary> | (the other option is to just use `<|>` on `Maybe`) |
| 2025-01-17 07:22:37 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2025-01-17 07:24:38 +0100 | res0nat0r0844909 | (~Fletch@falcon.whatbox.ca) (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)) |
| 2025-01-17 07:25:14 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@77.23.250.232) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-01-17 07:27:01 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-176-006-139-051.176.6.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2025-01-17 07:27:18 +0100 | alp | (~alp@2001:861:8ca0:4940:8a73:f3f6:adcb:ed3) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2025-01-17 07:33:06 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-17 07:34:24 +0100 | <homo> | Bowuigi unfortunately it works that way only within wrapper :( |
| 2025-01-17 07:35:21 +0100 | <homo> | anyway, it doesn't really matter as I got entire microhs to compile and my current problem is runtime error |
| 2025-01-17 07:35:46 +0100 | <homo> | after runtime is fixed it'll be perfect time for cosmetic changes |
| 2025-01-17 07:36:23 +0100 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-01-17 07:37:37 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-01-17 07:37:39 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> Wdym "within wrapper"? |
| 2025-01-17 07:38:59 +0100 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) Sgeo |
| 2025-01-17 07:39:25 +0100 | <homo> | MHSPrelude.hs and MiniPrelude.hs |
| 2025-01-17 07:41:48 +0100 | <homo> | ideally some group would fork hugs and modernize it, as it has ugly practices of the past, take Monad class for example, there is no MonadFail class and fail is part of Monad class |
| 2025-01-17 07:45:12 +0100 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-01-17 07:48:26 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-17 07:51:57 +0100 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@2a05:5800:2e9:c100:ca4b:d6ff:fec1:99da) CiaoSen |
| 2025-01-17 07:52:39 +0100 | vanishingideal | (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal |
| 2025-01-17 07:54:24 +0100 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7283f5200259c07642d77ab.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk |
| 2025-01-17 07:56:23 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-01-17 07:58:30 +0100 | <homo> | Bowuigi anyway, that runtime error is an exception raised by microhs, there is also a significant difference that in hugs it's "data Exception = ..." while in microhs it's "class Exception e where", furthermore because of name clashes I have no idea from which module to import "catch" and "try", and I am lucky that "type SomeException = Exception" even works |
| 2025-01-17 07:59:16 +0100 | ft | (~ft@p4fc2a354.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2025-01-17 08:00:48 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-17 08:02:31 +0100 | <homo> | but microhs is so fantastic at reporting where that error is coming from that I can't figure out what to do |
| 2025-01-17 08:04:05 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> Oh yeah the exception system changed somewhere down the line |
| 2025-01-17 08:04:37 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> The Hugs equivalent to the modern exception system is "throwDyn" and "catchDyn" |
| 2025-01-17 08:05:11 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> As the name implies, they use Dynamic instead of an Exception typeclass |
| 2025-01-17 08:06:15 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> Exceptions in Hugs are the built-in, Haskell ones, so custom exception systems built on top of SomeException won't work |
| 2025-01-17 08:07:26 +0100 | <homo> | I really have no experience with neither of those |
| 2025-01-17 08:09:12 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> Most of what I know about exceptions comes from reading the source+docs of the two base libraries and the source of smalltt, which uses custom exceptions |
| 2025-01-17 08:09:21 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2025-01-17 08:10:23 +0100 | <hololeap> | homo: there's a decent blog post about ghc exception handling here: https://tech.fpcomplete.com/blog/2018/04/async-exception-handling-haskell/ |
| 2025-01-17 08:10:30 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> You should be able to create a version of SomeException on Hugs and use throwDyn/catchDyn for flow control, not sure how hard would that be tho |
| 2025-01-17 08:12:13 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> It's also glue code you can't skip because both exception handling systems are very different |
| 2025-01-17 08:14:50 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
| 2025-01-17 08:20:35 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-17 08:20:56 +0100 | <homo> | Bowuigi if that's so it's a puzzle how comes hugs doesn't throw compile-time error because of alias "type SomeException = Exception" |
| 2025-01-17 08:23:08 +0100 | ColinRobinson | (~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) (Quit: ColinRobinson) |
| 2025-01-17 08:23:26 +0100 | iteratee | (~kyle@162.218.222.207) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-01-17 08:23:57 +0100 | iteratee | (~kyle@162.218.222.207) |
| 2025-01-17 08:24:05 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> Exception is a datatype in hugs |
| 2025-01-17 08:24:27 +0100 | <homo> | yes, I said so earlier |
| 2025-01-17 08:27:26 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-17 08:28:55 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> Why would it give a compile time error then? |
| 2025-01-17 08:29:06 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> That part is correct |
| 2025-01-17 08:31:24 +0100 | vanishingideal | (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-01-17 08:34:32 +0100 | vanishingideal | (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal |
| 2025-01-17 08:38:37 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-17 08:41:09 +0100 | <homo> | Bowuigi because you said I can't skip implementing SomeExpection as Dynamic and throwDyn/catchDyn |
| 2025-01-17 08:42:40 +0100 | <homo> | hololeap thanks, it's not clear where Dynamic is used though |
| 2025-01-17 08:43:22 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2025-01-17 08:44:14 +0100 | <hololeap> | sorry, I wasn't following the whole conversation |
| 2025-01-17 08:44:39 +0100 | <homo> | for async I remember go has some context and instead of throwing exception you simply send message over channel (CSP-style concurrency), wonder if that can simplify things in haskell |
| 2025-01-17 08:44:44 +0100 | <hololeap> | just ignore it if it's not relevant |
| 2025-01-17 08:45:57 +0100 | mange | (~user@user/mange) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2025-01-17 08:49:40 +0100 | lortabac | (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:55ab:e185:7f81:54a4) |
| 2025-01-17 08:52:14 +0100 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2025-01-17 08:53:23 +0100 | <homo> | hm, grepping source code of both microhs and hugs I think I know what throws exception |
| 2025-01-17 08:53:24 +0100 | housemate | (~housemate@146.70.66.228) housemate |
| 2025-01-17 08:53:59 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-17 08:54:16 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-176-006-139-051.176.6.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-01-17 08:54:33 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-176-006-139-051.176.6.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2025-01-17 08:54:46 +0100 | housemate | (~housemate@146.70.66.228) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-01-17 08:54:56 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-176-006-139-051.176.6.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-01-17 08:55:13 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@77.23.250.232) |
| 2025-01-17 08:55:18 +0100 | housemate | (~housemate@146.70.66.228) housemate |