IRCBrowse

2024/11/05

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2024-11-05 00:56:42 +0100 <haskellbridge> <zwro> monochrom: main = print 1
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2024-11-05 01:48:04 +0100sroso(~sroso@user/SrOso) SrOso
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2024-11-05 02:14:00 +0100 <sclv> Inst: servant has a special helper just for your use case of exposing a directory https://hackage.haskell.org/package/servant-server-0.20.2/docs/Servant-Server-StaticFiles.html#v:s…
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2024-11-05 02:48:14 +0100rvalue-(~rvalue@user/rvalue) rvalue
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2024-11-05 02:52:22 +0100rvalue-rvalue
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2024-11-05 03:13:33 +0100JuanDaugherty(~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) JuanDaugherty
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2024-11-05 03:18:25 +0100troojg(~troojg@user/troojg) troojg
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2024-11-05 03:35:24 +0100L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) L29Ah
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2024-11-05 03:59:25 +0100hgolden__(~hgolden@23.162.40.28) hgolden
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2024-11-05 04:25:49 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-11-05 04:28:15 +0100 <arahael> I'm attempting to install haskell on debian trixie. However, ghcup installs the wrong version.
2024-11-05 04:28:32 +0100 <arahael> It's installing the version for bookworm instead.
2024-11-05 04:30:49 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-11-05 04:38:57 +0100JuanDaugherty(~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-11-05 04:41:06 +0100 <geekosaur> afaict there isn't one for trixie
2024-11-05 04:41:11 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-11-05 04:41:26 +0100 <arahael> Hmm, so I should stick with the distro-provided ghc and cabal et al.
2024-11-05 04:41:49 +0100 <arahael> Or use distrobox and get myself setup with bookworm I guess.
2024-11-05 04:42:13 +0100 <geekosaur> there are two debian distributions in the ghcup metadata from what I saw, if neither is compatible then you'll have to file a bug about getting a compatible build
2024-11-05 04:42:19 +0100terrorjack4(~terrorjac@2a01:4f8:c17:dc9f::) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2024-11-05 04:42:19 +0100Square2(~Square4@user/square) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-11-05 04:42:35 +0100 <arahael> What are those two debians?
2024-11-05 04:43:04 +0100 <arahael> I suppose it's possible ghcup don't want to support a testing release until it's properly released as stable?
2024-11-05 04:43:10 +0100 <geekosaur> I see "< 10" and ">= 10"
2024-11-05 04:43:26 +0100 <arahael> That's... Interesting.
2024-11-05 04:43:53 +0100 <arahael> By contrast, I saw that ghcup instructed me to install packages that no-longer exist, and tried to install for version 11.
2024-11-05 04:43:59 +0100 <arahael> (And I'm on version 12 - trixie)
2024-11-05 04:44:00 +0100terrorjack4(~terrorjac@2a01:4f8:c17:dc9f::) terrorjack
2024-11-05 04:45:33 +0100troojg(~troojg@user/troojg) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-11-05 04:45:46 +0100 <geekosaur> sorry, once I get to a modern version it's three (<10, 10, >=11)
2024-11-05 04:45:49 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-11-05 04:46:29 +0100 <arahael> Ah, that makes sense again, then.
2024-11-05 04:46:45 +0100 <arahael> I could give it a go, regardless, and try the 'bookworm' version.
2024-11-05 04:49:20 +0100 <arahael> Ah, it seems to be a little inconsistent - some of the packages are for bookworm, and some are for trixie.
2024-11-05 04:49:53 +0100 <arahael> ghci> putStrLn "Hello World!"
2024-11-05 04:49:55 +0100 <arahael> Hello World!
2024-11-05 04:49:57 +0100 <arahael> All good!
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2024-11-05 06:25:28 +0100haveo(~weechat@pacamara.iuwt.fr) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:28 +0100Rembane(~Rembane@user/Rembane) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:28 +0100tnks(sid412124@id-412124.helmsley.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:28 +0100NemesisD(sid24071@id-24071.lymington.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:28 +0100hovsater(sid499516@user/hovsater) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:28 +0100buhman(sid411355@user/buhman) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:29 +0100Hecate(~mariposa@user/hecate) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:29 +0100mniip_(mniip@libera/staff/mniip) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:29 +0100tzh(~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:29 +0100mauke(~mauke@user/mauke) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:29 +0100Hafydd(~Hafydd@user/hafydd) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:29 +0100ouroboros(~ouroboros@user/ouroboros) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:29 +0100peutri(~peutri@bobo.desast.re) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:29 +0100farn__(~farn@2a03:4000:7:3cd:d4ab:85ff:feeb:f505) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:29 +0100lbseale_(~quassel@user/ep1ctetus) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:29 +0100ent-_(entgod@kapsi.fi) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:29 +0100ringo_(~ringo@157.230.117.128) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:29 +0100samhh__(7569f027cf@2a03:6000:1812:100::e4) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:29 +0100tok(da65c7b04b@user/tok) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:29 +0100raghavgururajan(ea769b8000@user/raghavgururajan) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:29 +0100rselim(ce261f06ff@user/milesrout) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:30 +0100flocks(~flocks@134.122.90.60) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:30 +0100coldtom(~coldtom@coldrick.cc) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:30 +0100finsternis(~X@23.226.237.192) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:30 +0100arkeet(~arkeet@moriya.ca) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:30 +0100sm(~znc@plaintextaccounting/sm) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:31 +0100mhatta(~mhatta@www21123ui.sakura.ne.jp) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:31 +0100NiKaN(sid385034@id-385034.helmsley.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:31 +0100Fangs(sid141280@id-141280.hampstead.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:31 +0100cheater(~Username@user/cheater) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:31 +0100Maxdamantus(~Maxdamant@user/maxdamantus) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:31 +0100bsima(~bsima@143.198.118.179) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:31 +0100crazazy(~crazazy@tilde.town) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:31 +0100masterbuilder(~quassel@user/masterbuilder) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:31 +0100nisstyre(wes@user/nisstyre) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:31 +0100Athas(athas@sigkill.dk) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:31 +0100edwtjo(~edwtjo@fsf/member/edwtjo) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:32 +0100bcksl(~bcksl@user/bcksl) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:32 +0100edwardk(sid47016@haskell/developer/edwardk) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:32 +0100saolsen(sid26430@id-26430.lymington.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:32 +0100acro(~acro@user/acro) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:32 +0100cjay(cjay@nerdbox.nerd2nerd.org) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:32 +0100teesquare_(~teesquare@user/teesquare) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:32 +0100degraafk(sid71464@id-71464.lymington.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:32 +0100liskin(~liskin@xmonad/liskin) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:32 +0100Patternmaster(~georg@user/Patternmaster) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:32 +0100sefidel(~sefidel@user/sefidel) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:32 +0100bgamari(~bgamari@64.223.233.64) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:33 +0100landonf(landonf@mac68k.info) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:33 +0100beaky(~beaky@198.211.118.219) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:33 +0100ncf(~n@monade.li) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:33 +0100ChanServ(ChanServ@services.libera.chat) (*.net *.split)
2024-11-05 06:25:51 +0100Sgeo_(~Sgeo@ool-45759c8b.dyn.optonline.net)
2024-11-05 06:26:06 +0100ChanServ(ChanServ@services.libera.chat)
2024-11-05 06:26:06 +0100litharge(litharge@libera/bot/litharge) litharge
2024-11-05 06:26:06 +0100mercury.libera.chat+o ChanServ
2024-11-05 06:26:36 +0100biberu\(~biberu@user/biberu) biberu
2024-11-05 06:26:55 +0100Ram-Z(Ram-Z@2a01:7e01::f03c:91ff:fe57:d2df) Ram-Z
2024-11-05 06:27:04 +0100samhh082AAS5CR
2024-11-05 06:27:08 +0100tzh(~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) tzh
2024-11-05 06:27:08 +0100mauke(~mauke@user/mauke) mauke
2024-11-05 06:27:08 +0100Hafydd(~Hafydd@user/hafydd) Hafydd
2024-11-05 06:27:08 +0100ouroboros(~ouroboros@user/ouroboros) ouroboros
2024-11-05 06:27:08 +0100peutri(~peutri@bobo.desast.re) peutri
2024-11-05 06:27:08 +0100farn__(~farn@2a03:4000:7:3cd:d4ab:85ff:feeb:f505) farn
2024-11-05 06:27:08 +0100lbseale_(~quassel@user/ep1ctetus) ep1ctetus
2024-11-05 06:27:08 +0100ent-_(entgod@kapsi.fi) ent
2024-11-05 06:27:08 +0100ringo_(~ringo@157.230.117.128) ringo_
2024-11-05 06:27:08 +0100samhh(7569f027cf@2a03:6000:1812:100::e4) samhh
2024-11-05 06:27:08 +0100tok(da65c7b04b@user/tok) tok
2024-11-05 06:27:08 +0100raghavgururajan(ea769b8000@user/raghavgururajan) raghavgururajan
2024-11-05 06:27:08 +0100rselim(ce261f06ff@user/milesrout) milesrout
2024-11-05 06:27:08 +0100flocks(~flocks@134.122.90.60) flocks
2024-11-05 06:27:08 +0100coldtom(~coldtom@coldrick.cc) coldtom
2024-11-05 06:27:08 +0100finsternis(~X@23.226.237.192) finsternis
2024-11-05 06:27:08 +0100arkeet(~arkeet@moriya.ca) arkeet
2024-11-05 06:27:08 +0100sm(~znc@plaintextaccounting/sm) sm
2024-11-05 06:27:08 +0100mhatta(~mhatta@www21123ui.sakura.ne.jp) mhatta
2024-11-05 06:27:08 +0100NiKaN(sid385034@id-385034.helmsley.irccloud.com) NiKaN
2024-11-05 06:27:08 +0100Fangs(sid141280@id-141280.hampstead.irccloud.com) Fangs
2024-11-05 06:27:08 +0100cheater(~Username@user/cheater) cheater
2024-11-05 06:27:08 +0100Maxdamantus(~Maxdamant@user/maxdamantus) Maxdamantus
2024-11-05 06:27:08 +0100bsima(~bsima@143.198.118.179) bsima
2024-11-05 06:27:08 +0100crazazy(~crazazy@tilde.town) crazazy
2024-11-05 06:27:08 +0100masterbuilder(~quassel@user/masterbuilder) masterbuilder
2024-11-05 06:27:08 +0100nisstyre(wes@user/nisstyre) nisstyre
2024-11-05 06:27:08 +0100Athas(athas@sigkill.dk) Athas
2024-11-05 06:27:08 +0100edwtjo(~edwtjo@fsf/member/edwtjo) edwtjo
2024-11-05 06:27:08 +0100bcksl(~bcksl@user/bcksl) bcksl
2024-11-05 06:27:08 +0100edwardk(sid47016@haskell/developer/edwardk) edwardk
2024-11-05 06:27:08 +0100saolsen(sid26430@id-26430.lymington.irccloud.com) saolsen
2024-11-05 06:27:08 +0100acro(~acro@user/acro) acro
2024-11-05 06:27:08 +0100cjay(cjay@nerdbox.nerd2nerd.org) cjay
2024-11-05 06:27:08 +0100teesquare_(~teesquare@user/teesquare) teesquare
2024-11-05 06:27:08 +0100ncf(~n@monade.li) ncf
2024-11-05 06:27:08 +0100degraafk(sid71464@id-71464.lymington.irccloud.com) degraafk
2024-11-05 06:27:08 +0100liskin(~liskin@xmonad/liskin) Liskni_si
2024-11-05 06:27:08 +0100Patternmaster(~georg@user/Patternmaster) Patternmaster
2024-11-05 06:27:08 +0100sefidel(~sefidel@user/sefidel) sefidel
2024-11-05 06:27:08 +0100bgamari(~bgamari@64.223.233.64) bgamari
2024-11-05 06:27:08 +0100landonf(landonf@mac68k.info)
2024-11-05 06:27:08 +0100beaky(~beaky@198.211.118.219) beaky
2024-11-05 06:27:35 +0100finsternis(~X@23.226.237.192) (Max SendQ exceeded)
2024-11-05 06:27:36 +0100Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Ping timeout: 243 seconds)
2024-11-05 06:27:48 +0100rini(~rini@user/rini) rini
2024-11-05 06:27:48 +0100Digitteknohippie(~user@user/digit) Digit
2024-11-05 06:27:48 +0100alp(~alp@2001:861:e3d6:8f80:8ee1:f46d:3f90:227c)
2024-11-05 06:27:48 +0100Leary(~Leary@user/Leary/x-0910699) Leary
2024-11-05 06:27:48 +0100Eoco(~ian@128.101.131.218) Eoco
2024-11-05 06:27:48 +0100JamesMowery43(~JamesMowe@ip98-167-207-182.ph.ph.cox.net) JamesMowery
2024-11-05 06:27:48 +0100gawen(~gawen@user/gawen) gawen
2024-11-05 06:27:48 +0100haskellbridge(~hackager@syn-024-093-192-219.res.spectrum.com) hackager
2024-11-05 06:27:48 +0100infinity0(~infinity0@pwned.gg) infinity0
2024-11-05 06:27:48 +0100img(~img@user/img) img
2024-11-05 06:27:48 +0100Pozyomka(~pyon@user/pyon) pyon
2024-11-05 06:27:48 +0100ggb(a62ffbaf4f@2a03:6000:1812:100::3ac)
2024-11-05 06:27:48 +0100jakzale(6291399afa@user/jakzale) jakzale
2024-11-05 06:27:48 +0100ACuriousMoose(~ACuriousM@156.34.161.188) ACuriousMoose
2024-11-05 06:27:48 +0100pandeyan(~pandeyan@135-180-52-227.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net)
2024-11-05 06:27:48 +0100jrm(~jrm@user/jrm) jrm
2024-11-05 06:27:48 +0100swistak(~swistak@185.21.216.141)
2024-11-05 06:27:48 +0100rembo10(~rembo10@main.remulis.com) rembo10
2024-11-05 06:27:48 +0100Typedfern(~Typedfern@59.red-83-37-27.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) typedfern
2024-11-05 06:27:48 +0100mewra(~aranea@wireguard/contributorcat/mira) aranea
2024-11-05 06:27:48 +0100tomku(~tomku@user/tomku) tomku
2024-11-05 06:27:48 +0100haveo(~weechat@pacamara.iuwt.fr) haveo
2024-11-05 06:27:48 +0100Rembane(~Rembane@user/Rembane) Rembane
2024-11-05 06:27:48 +0100tnks(sid412124@id-412124.helmsley.irccloud.com) tnks
2024-11-05 06:27:48 +0100NemesisD(sid24071@id-24071.lymington.irccloud.com) NemesisD
2024-11-05 06:27:48 +0100hovsater(sid499516@user/hovsater) hovsater
2024-11-05 06:27:48 +0100buhman(sid411355@user/buhman) buhman
2024-11-05 06:27:48 +0100Hecate(~mariposa@user/hecate) Hecate
2024-11-05 06:27:48 +0100mniip_(mniip@libera/staff/mniip) mniip
2024-11-05 06:27:48 +0100mercury.libera.chat+v haskellbridge
2024-11-05 06:27:54 +0100briandaed(~root@185.234.210.211)
2024-11-05 06:28:11 +0100finsternis(~X@23.226.237.192) finsternis
2024-11-05 06:28:25 +0100td_(~td@i53870915.versanet.de) td_
2024-11-05 06:28:25 +0100jess(meow@libera/staff/cat/jess) jess
2024-11-05 06:28:25 +0100roosterphant_(~roosterph@185.21.217.76)
2024-11-05 06:28:25 +0100weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) user363627
2024-11-05 06:28:25 +0100Raito_Bezarius(~Raito@wireguard/tunneler/raito-bezarius) Raito_Bezarius
2024-11-05 06:28:25 +0100tomboy64(~tomboy64@user/tomboy64) tomboy64
2024-11-05 06:28:25 +0100driib318(~driib@vmi931078.contaboserver.net) driib
2024-11-05 06:28:25 +0100hololeap(~quassel@user/hololeap) hololeap
2024-11-05 06:28:25 +0100guygastineau(~guygastin@137.184.131.156) RMSBach
2024-11-05 06:28:25 +0100ThePenguin(~ThePengui@cust-95-80-24-166.csbnet.se) ThePenguin
2024-11-05 06:28:25 +0100igemnace(~igemnace@user/igemnace) igemnace
2024-11-05 06:28:25 +0100tomsmeding(~tomsmedin@2a01:4f8:c0c:5e5e::2) tomsmeding
2024-11-05 06:28:25 +0100Techcable(sid534393@user/Techcable) Techcable
2024-11-05 06:28:25 +0100mrmonday(~robert@what.i.hope.is.not.a.tabernaevagant.es) mrmonday
2024-11-05 06:28:25 +0100dibblego(~dibblego@haskell/developer/dibblego) dibblego
2024-11-05 06:28:25 +0100orcus(~orcus@mail.brprice.uk)
2024-11-05 06:28:25 +0100krei-se(~krei-se@p5085d46e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) krei-se
2024-11-05 06:28:25 +0100gabiruh(~gabiruh@vps19177.publiccloud.com.br) gabiruh
2024-11-05 06:28:25 +0100picnoir(~picnoir@about/aquilenet/vodoo/NinjaTrappeur) NinjaTrappeur
2024-11-05 06:28:25 +0100berberman(~berberman@user/berberman) berberman
2024-11-05 06:28:25 +0100nckhexen(nckx@libera/staff/owl/nckx) nckx
2024-11-05 06:28:25 +0100smalltalkman(uid545680@id-545680.hampstead.irccloud.com) smalltalkman
2024-11-05 06:28:25 +0100dunj3(~dunj3@2a01:239:328:1600::1) dunj3
2024-11-05 06:28:25 +0100Vajb(~Vajb@n7m8bu6eaitlx0eukg2-1.v6.elisa-mobile.fi)
2024-11-05 06:28:25 +0100mrvdb(~mrvdb@2001:19f0:5000:8582:5400:ff:fe07:3df5) mrvdb
2024-11-05 06:28:25 +0100b20n(sid115913@id-115913.uxbridge.irccloud.com) b20n
2024-11-05 06:28:25 +0100Moyst__(~moyst@user/moyst) Moyst
2024-11-05 06:28:25 +0100c_wraith(~c_wraith@adjoint.us) c_wraith
2024-11-05 06:28:25 +0100yushyin(Uxh5EO4c9E@karif.server-speed.net) yushyin
2024-11-05 06:28:25 +0100ggVGc(~ggVGc@a.lowtech.earth)
2024-11-05 06:28:34 +0100alphazone(~alphazone@2.219.56.221)
2024-11-05 06:28:48 +0100Me-me(~me-me@kc.randomserver.name) (Changing host)
2024-11-05 06:28:48 +0100Me-me(~me-me@user/me-me) Me-me
2024-11-05 06:28:50 +0100igemnace(~igemnace@user/igemnace) (Max SendQ exceeded)
2024-11-05 06:28:50 +0100Raito_Bezarius(~Raito@wireguard/tunneler/raito-bezarius) (Max SendQ exceeded)
2024-11-05 06:29:13 +0100igemnace(~igemnace@user/igemnace) igemnace
2024-11-05 06:29:59 +0100biberu(~biberu@user/biberu) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2024-11-05 06:29:59 +0100biberu\biberu
2024-11-05 06:31:33 +0100NiKaN(sid385034@id-385034.helmsley.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2024-11-05 06:32:15 +0100Techcable(sid534393@user/Techcable) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-11-05 06:33:24 +0100Techcable(sid534393@user/Techcable) Techcable
2024-11-05 06:33:38 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-11-05 06:33:51 +0100NiKaN(sid385034@id-385034.helmsley.irccloud.com) NiKaN
2024-11-05 06:35:14 +0100peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich
2024-11-05 06:35:35 +0100litharge(litharge@libera/bot/litharge) (Ping timeout: 630 seconds)
2024-11-05 06:35:40 +0100Raito_Bezarius(~Raito@wireguard/tunneler/raito-bezarius) Raito_Bezarius
2024-11-05 06:36:19 +0100litharge(litharge@libera/bot/litharge) litharge
2024-11-05 06:38:01 +0100FinnBoat(~user@29.118.67.37.rev.sfr.net)
2024-11-05 06:40:54 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-11-05 06:42:14 +0100sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) sord937
2024-11-05 06:43:02 +0100michalz(~michalz@185.246.207.203)
2024-11-05 06:46:08 +0100pabs3(~pabs3@user/pabs3) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-11-05 06:46:52 +0100pabs3(~pabs3@user/pabs3) pabs3
2024-11-05 06:47:49 +0100nandv(~nandv@2405:201:5c16:135:e925:789:fa7f:2328)
2024-11-05 06:48:30 +0100byte(~byte@149.28.222.189) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-11-05 06:48:36 +0100natoshi-sakamoto(~natoshi-s@2405:201:5c16:135:7459:cd00:c885:3805)
2024-11-05 06:49:58 +0100alp(~alp@2001:861:e3d6:8f80:8ee1:f46d:3f90:227c) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2024-11-05 06:51:49 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-11-05 06:53:06 +0100byte(~byte@149.28.222.189)
2024-11-05 06:56:48 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2024-11-05 06:57:17 +0100euleritian(~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2024-11-05 07:04:20 +0100FinnBoat(~user@29.118.67.37.rev.sfr.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-11-05 07:06:34 +0100euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-007-145-160.176.7.pool.telefonica.de)
2024-11-05 07:07:12 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-11-05 07:07:34 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-11-05 07:09:29 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp)
2024-11-05 07:09:48 +0100nandv(~nandv@2405:201:5c16:135:e925:789:fa7f:2328) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2024-11-05 07:11:03 +0100euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-007-145-160.176.7.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-11-05 07:11:36 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-11-05 07:14:14 +0100frxi(~frxi@49.36.234.228)
2024-11-05 07:14:34 +0100euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-006-131-070.176.6.pool.telefonica.de)
2024-11-05 07:22:19 +0100takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be)
2024-11-05 07:22:34 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-11-05 07:23:28 +0100misterfish(~misterfis@84.53.85.146) misterfish
2024-11-05 07:23:42 +0100euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-006-131-070.176.6.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-11-05 07:24:31 +0100euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-000-012-045.176.0.pool.telefonica.de)
2024-11-05 07:28:00 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2024-11-05 07:30:03 +0100Sgeo_(~Sgeo@ool-45759c8b.dyn.optonline.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-11-05 07:32:56 +0100poscat0x04(~poscat@user/poscat) poscat
2024-11-05 07:33:12 +0100poscat(~poscat@user/poscat) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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2024-11-05 09:48:47 +0100Versality(~Versality@user/Versality) Versality
2024-11-05 09:48:49 +0100euleritian(~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2024-11-05 09:58:30 +0100machinedgod(~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod
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2024-11-05 10:04:43 +0100enikar(~enikar@user/enikar) enikar
2024-11-05 10:05:14 +0100abyss(~nandv@37.19.205.154)
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2024-11-05 10:08:37 +0100ash3en(~Thunderbi@2a03:7846:b6eb:101:93ac:a90a:da67:f207) ash3en
2024-11-05 10:08:39 +0100tzh(~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz)
2024-11-05 10:09:06 +0100 <Inst> is Text `Either` Bool cancerous?
2024-11-05 10:09:13 +0100 <Inst> or is it an actually acceptable use of Haskell syntax?
2024-11-05 10:10:02 +0100 <Inst> also, where's the config for default fixity / precedence when you backtick a function?
2024-11-05 10:11:09 +0100 <kaol> I get "Illegal term-level use of the type constructor or class ‘Either’" when I try anything like that.
2024-11-05 10:13:22 +0100 <Leary> Type level or not doesn't make a difference; infix is fine iff the identifier is suitably named. "a `Or` b" would be fine, but "a `Either` b" isn't.
2024-11-05 10:13:44 +0100 <Leary> Anyway, you can always just `type (+) = Either`.
2024-11-05 10:15:30 +0100 <tomsmeding> arahael: I guess ghcup doesn't provide versions for newer distro versions because 1. the older ones work and 2. fewer distribution artifacts lightens the load on release managers / CI infra etc. :)
2024-11-05 10:19:24 +0100 <geekosaur> last I heard Julian was doing his own builds on the default channel, so I imagine adding extra ones would be even more work for him. (The vanilla channel contains upstream-provided builds.)
2024-11-05 10:19:28 +0100 <Inst> I heard people complaining about `type ($) a b = a b
2024-11-05 10:20:03 +0100 <geekosaur> how much of that is complaining about `($)` in general?
2024-11-05 10:20:15 +0100 <Inst> kaol: try :k instead of :t
2024-11-05 10:20:51 +0100 <Inst> I don't know, but tbh anti-parens crusade, and the ridiculously we do with crazy stuff like do bulleting
2024-11-05 10:21:03 +0100 <Inst> *riduculousness
2024-11-05 10:21:19 +0100 <geekosaur> anyway I think it's acceptable to the compiler (at type level, of course) but it makes code harder to read
2024-11-05 10:21:36 +0100 <Inst> Haskell 98 apparently defaults to infixl 9, section seems missing in Haskell 2010, though
2024-11-05 10:22:04 +0100 <geekosaur> I strongly prefer to save operator syntax for things that are actually operator-like
2024-11-05 10:22:27 +0100 <haskellbridge> <hellwolf> I think there is beauty in '$ <$> <$ $> <_> <_ *> >>= >=> <=<`
2024-11-05 10:22:38 +0100 <haskellbridge> <hellwolf> * >=<
2024-11-05 10:22:46 +0100 <haskellbridge> <hellwolf> * "$ \<$> \<$ $> \<_\> \<_ \*> >>= >=\< \<=\<\"
2024-11-05 10:22:53 +0100 <haskellbridge> <hellwolf> * <$> <$ $> <_> <_ *> >>= >=< <=<"
2024-11-05 10:23:12 +0100 <geekosaur> https://www.haskell.org/onlinereport/haskell2010/haskellch4.html#x10-820004.4.2
2024-11-05 10:23:15 +0100 <haskellbridge> <hellwolf> * "$, <$>, <$, $>, <_>, <_, *>, >>=, >=<,
2024-11-05 10:23:27 +0100 <haskellbridge> <hellwolf> * <*,
2024-11-05 10:23:42 +0100 <haskellbridge> <hellwolf> * >=>,
2024-11-05 10:23:55 +0100 <geekosaur> ugh, those edits are cancer IRC-side
2024-11-05 10:24:09 +0100 <haskellbridge> <hellwolf> sorry, I forget this is IRC channel, I was aware of it.
2024-11-05 10:24:28 +0100 <tomsmeding> (isn't "cancer" a bit overblown?)
2024-11-05 10:24:46 +0100haskellbridgehellwolf slaps myself with a large trout in good old IRC fashion
2024-11-05 10:24:46 +0100 <Inst> (.) doesn't seem to work that well on type level, though
2024-11-05 10:24:47 +0100 <Inst> sorry
2024-11-05 10:24:53 +0100 <tomsmeding> (though yes it's ugly and fairly unreadable sometimes)
2024-11-05 10:25:05 +0100 <tomsmeding> Inst: it's called Compose
2024-11-05 10:25:06 +0100 <Inst> the problem is that Either is supposed to be the standard sum type
2024-11-05 10:25:09 +0100 <Inst> ah
2024-11-05 10:25:13 +0100 <tomsmeding> but it's a newtype
2024-11-05 10:25:14 +0100 <geekosaur> it's too overloaded, I suspect, especially given `forall …. .`
2024-11-05 10:25:51 +0100 <arahael> tomsmeding: That does make sense. Was just a bit confusing.
2024-11-05 10:25:52 +0100 <tomsmeding> in general, in haskell, if a type synonym / family thing doesn't work too well in haskell, an extra newtype layer often fixes things
2024-11-05 10:25:52 +0100 <haskellbridge> <hellwolf> "(.)"
2024-11-05 10:25:52 +0100 <haskellbridge> ... long message truncated: https://kf8nh.com/_heisenbridge/media/kf8nh.com/KtvFpYdPnvlljZESVtlFKcjB/LggDqDvOMGc (7 lines)
2024-11-05 10:25:58 +0100geekosaurneeds to try to go back to bed
2024-11-05 10:26:04 +0100 <haskellbridge> <hellwolf> I alwsy remember when Edward Kmett blew my mind with those combinators
2024-11-05 10:26:21 +0100 <tomsmeding> hellwolf: (.) = fmap, so (.) . (.) = fmap fmap fmap
2024-11-05 10:26:30 +0100 <Inst> good luck, and don't stress too much today, it'll be over when it's over, and it's over in 4-8 years afterwards anyways
2024-11-05 10:27:03 +0100DigitteknohippieDigit
2024-11-05 10:27:03 +0100 <haskellbridge> <hellwolf> no, (.) != fmap. I just double checked with hoogle ;)
2024-11-05 10:27:30 +0100 <tomsmeding> :t (.) . (.)
2024-11-05 10:27:31 +0100 <lambdabot> (b -> c) -> (a1 -> a2 -> b) -> a1 -> a2 -> c
2024-11-05 10:27:33 +0100 <tomsmeding> :t fmap fmap fmap
2024-11-05 10:27:34 +0100 <lambdabot> (Functor f1, Functor f2) => (a -> b) -> f1 (f2 a) -> f1 (f2 b)
2024-11-05 10:27:35 +0100rvalue(~rvalue@user/rvalue) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-11-05 10:27:36 +0100 <Inst> (.) = fmap for instance Functor (r ->)
2024-11-05 10:27:51 +0100 <tomsmeding> now set (f1 ~ (->) a1) and (f2 ~ (->) a2)
2024-11-05 10:28:04 +0100rvalue(~rvalue@user/rvalue) rvalue
2024-11-05 10:31:48 +0100 <haskellbridge> <hellwolf> https://kf8nh.com/_heisenbridge/media/matrix.org/xKUfmoznwCHkVefPSdGMuRsW/vGfaLYyIYNk/image.png
2024-11-05 10:31:53 +0100 <haskellbridge> <hellwolf> Hope screenshot works for IRC users too.
2024-11-05 10:32:19 +0100 <tomsmeding> we get a link :) (wait a minute and it'll show up here https://ircbrowse.tomsmeding.com/browse/lchaskell?events_page=13963 )
2024-11-05 10:32:44 +0100 <haskellbridge> <hellwolf> sorry for not sorry for the digress. I figured it's an IRC channel, I can get away with some interjections.
2024-11-05 10:32:46 +0100haskellbridgehellwolf duck now
2024-11-05 10:33:47 +0100 <kaol> Some people just want to see the world burn. Like by redefining map = fmap = (.).
2024-11-05 10:35:22 +0100 <kaol> Just to get "(+1) . [1,2,3]". Not confusing at all.
2024-11-05 10:35:45 +0100 <Inst> . is confusing, tbh
2024-11-05 10:36:10 +0100 <Inst> you can remember it's supposed to resemble the composition operator in math, but there's a dozen other things it's used in computer science
2024-11-05 10:36:21 +0100 <Inst> it's also used for Module.bindingInModule
2024-11-05 10:36:33 +0100 <Inst> and RecordDotSyntax
2024-11-05 10:38:23 +0100 <kaol> That's just syntax. I'm thinking of type level mayhem.
2024-11-05 10:38:38 +0100 <haskellbridge> <hellwolf> . to ∘ is simplified chinese to traditional chinese.
2024-11-05 10:38:52 +0100 <merijn> RecordDotSyntax exists solely to make Haskell's relatively clean grammar a confusing nightmare hellscape
2024-11-05 10:39:17 +0100 <kaol> I'll happily never use it myself.
2024-11-05 10:39:26 +0100 <merijn> It's a bad extension that should feel bad about itself >.<
2024-11-05 10:41:02 +0100 <Inst> nice analogy, given that o takes forever to type whereas . is a keyboard default
2024-11-05 10:41:26 +0100 <Inst> (since simplified Chinese, among other things, makes Chinese far faster to write in non-cursive forms)
2024-11-05 10:42:30 +0100 <haskellbridge> <hellwolf> 书 / 書 (book)
2024-11-05 10:42:30 +0100 <haskellbridge> 广 / 廣 (wide, adj.)
2024-11-05 10:48:11 +0100rvalue-(~rvalue@user/rvalue) rvalue
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2024-11-05 10:59:52 +0100ubert(~Thunderbi@178.115.51.39.wireless.dyn.drei.com) ubert
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2024-11-05 11:08:44 +0100lxsameer(~lxsameer@Serene/lxsameer) lxsameer
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2024-11-05 11:17:37 +0100libertyprime(~libertypr@118-92-73-199.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) libertyprime
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2024-11-05 11:24:33 +0100misterfish(~misterfis@31-161-39-137.biz.kpn.net) misterfish
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2024-11-05 11:29:18 +0100ash3en1(~Thunderbi@146.70.124.222) ash3en
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2024-11-05 11:29:24 +0100kronicmage(~kronicmag@neotame.csclub.uwaterloo.ca) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2024-11-05 11:29:25 +0100ash3en1ash3en
2024-11-05 11:29:42 +0100 <probie> Handwriting is one thing, but it's the same amount of effort to type 马 as 馬
2024-11-05 11:31:32 +0100kronicmage(~kronicmag@neotame.csclub.uwaterloo.ca) kronicmage
2024-11-05 11:34:08 +0100 <probie> . is slightly easier to type than ∘, but with a proper input method, it's not _much_ harder. My normal setup for writing unicode maths characters in code is based on Agda's input method, so it's just `\o` (two key presses)
2024-11-05 11:35:29 +0100longlongdouble(~longlongd@2405:201:5c16:135:7459:cd00:c885:3805) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-11-05 11:40:25 +0100longlongdouble(~longlongd@117.234.189.117)
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2024-11-05 11:43:27 +0100ash3en1(~Thunderbi@2a03:7846:b6eb:101:93ac:a90a:da67:f207) ash3en
2024-11-05 11:44:52 +0100lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:55ab:e185:7f81:54a4) (Quit: WeeChat 4.2.2)
2024-11-05 11:45:44 +0100ash3en(~Thunderbi@146.70.124.222) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2024-11-05 11:45:45 +0100ash3en1ash3en
2024-11-05 11:53:16 +0100kuribas(~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be) kuribas
2024-11-05 11:53:53 +0100 <kuribas> Is an ADT a category?
2024-11-05 11:54:00 +0100 <kuribas> Then mapping an ADT into another one would be a functor?
2024-11-05 11:56:16 +0100supercode(~supercode@user/supercode) supercode
2024-11-05 12:03:14 +0100harveypwca(~harveypwc@2601:246:d080:b40:1889:d9bf:2dd8:b288) HarveyPwca
2024-11-05 12:03:15 +0100 <tomsmeding> kuribas: if it's a category, then what are its objects and its arrows?
2024-11-05 12:04:53 +0100 <kuribas> tomsmeding: Arrows are the products and sums I suppose?
2024-11-05 12:05:03 +0100 <kuribas> Objects are the types?
2024-11-05 12:05:35 +0100 <ncf> ??
2024-11-05 12:05:35 +0100 <tomsmeding> the "standard" example of a category in the context of FP is: objects are types, arrows (morphisms) are functions
2024-11-05 12:05:58 +0100 <tomsmeding> it works because the identity function is a thing at each type (i.e. on each object), and functions compose
2024-11-05 12:06:10 +0100 <tomsmeding> an ADT would be one object in that category
2024-11-05 12:06:53 +0100 <tomsmeding> kuribas: are you trying to encapsulate some kind of structure in a function from one ADT to another, more than there is in "any function"?
2024-11-05 12:07:01 +0100merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-11-05 12:07:59 +0100 <tomsmeding> if so, then perhaps the concept of an F-algebra is what you are looking for
2024-11-05 12:08:04 +0100 <kuribas> tomsmeding: I am reading the "databases as categories" article: https://math.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Applied_Mathematics/Seven_Sketches_in_Compositionality%3A_…(Fong_and_Spivak)/03%3A_Databases-_Categories_functors_and_(co)limits/3.03%3A_Functors_natural_transformations_and_databases
2024-11-05 12:08:11 +0100 <kuribas> I wonder if that works for ADTs too.
2024-11-05 12:08:28 +0100 <kuribas> So I could transform an ADT to a database table, using a functor.
2024-11-05 12:08:42 +0100 <tomsmeding> how on Earth does an ADT correspond to a database table? :p
2024-11-05 12:09:36 +0100 <kuribas> An ORM for example.
2024-11-05 12:10:08 +0100tomsmedingis out of comfort zone
2024-11-05 12:10:31 +0100 <Inst> wait, do database tables support sum types?
2024-11-05 12:10:43 +0100 <Inst> as in, can a database table be in one of two different schemas?
2024-11-05 12:11:06 +0100tomsmedinghas no clue what's going on on that page
2024-11-05 12:11:11 +0100tomsmedingsneaks off
2024-11-05 12:11:38 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:fc69:912f:320c:e811)
2024-11-05 12:11:59 +0100 <ncf> this is the most programmer-brained introduction to presheaves i have ever seen
2024-11-05 12:14:30 +0100supercode(~supercode@user/supercode) (Quit: Client closed)
2024-11-05 12:14:40 +0100 <probie> Inst: If it's not a normal relational database, then sum types may be easily supported :p. If you want to model it in a relational database and don't want to risk being two variants at once, you can have n columns, each being a nullable foreign key to that variant's table, and a constraint that exactly one of those columns is not null
2024-11-05 12:14:44 +0100 <ncf> Inst: as long as you can come up with a notion of homomorphism between instances of different schemas, sure ("there are none" is a valid answer)
2024-11-05 12:15:26 +0100 <haskellbridge> <hellwolf> I recalled a talk from "David Spivak: Categorical Databases". I appreciate people's relentless searches of composition, especially from mathematicians (Bartosz Milewski, et. al.) ... but sometimes someone just gotta find a concrete use case that others can understand and apply the insights.
2024-11-05 12:17:20 +0100ash3en(~Thunderbi@2a03:7846:b6eb:101:93ac:a90a:da67:f207) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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2024-11-05 15:13:52 +0100emma-underscores(~underscor@pool-108-54-214-254.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) emma-underscores
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2024-11-05 15:16:52 +0100mulk(~mulk@pd95146e9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) mulk
2024-11-05 15:18:30 +0100 <iphy> {-# LANGUAGE DeriveFunctor #-}
2024-11-05 15:18:30 +0100 <iphy> {-# LANGUAGE DeriveGeneric #-}
2024-11-05 15:18:30 +0100 <iphy> {-# LANGUAGE DerivingVia #-}
2024-11-05 15:18:30 +0100 <iphy> {-# LANGUAGE StrictData #-}
2024-11-05 15:18:30 +0100 <iphy> {-# LANGUAGE TypeOperators #-}
2024-11-05 15:18:31 +0100 <iphy> module Language.Cimple.Annot
2024-11-05 15:18:31 +0100 <iphy> ( AnnotF (..)
2024-11-05 15:18:32 +0100 <iphy> ) where
2024-11-05 15:18:33 +0100 <iphy> import Data.Fix (Fix, hoistFix)
2024-11-05 15:18:33 +0100 <iphy> import Data.Functor.Classes (Eq1, Read1, Show1)
2024-11-05 15:18:34 +0100 <iphy> import Data.Functor.Classes.Generic (FunctorClassesDefault (..))
2024-11-05 15:18:34 +0100 <iphy> import Data.Functor.Compose (Compose (..))
2024-11-05 15:18:35 +0100 <iphy> import GHC.Generics (Generic, Generic1)
2024-11-05 15:18:36 +0100 <iphy> data AnnotF attr a = Annot { attr :: attr, unAnnot :: a }
2024-11-05 15:18:36 +0100 <iphy> deriving (Functor, Generic, Generic1)
2024-11-05 15:18:37 +0100 <iphy> deriving (Show1, Read1, Eq1) via FunctorClassesDefault (AnnotF attr)
2024-11-05 15:18:42 +0100 <iphy> oops, sorry
2024-11-05 15:18:50 +0100 <iphy> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/dwAsXj9Z/
2024-11-05 15:19:30 +0100 <iphy> this is not working on ghc 9.6.5 anymore, but it works on 9.4.3. am I doing something wrong? is there something new I need to do for this?
2024-11-05 15:20:23 +0100 <iphy> this is the error https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/VqT6CteH/error
2024-11-05 15:22:59 +0100 <tomsmeding> iphy: is it the ghc version that makes the difference, or the version of some library? Are you using the same version of transformers-compat in both cases?
2024-11-05 15:25:43 +0100Versality(~Versality@user/Versality) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-11-05 15:29:37 +0100 <tomsmeding> iphy: compiles for me if I add (Show, Read, Eq) to the first deriving clause
2024-11-05 15:32:45 +0100 <tomsmeding> my conjecture is that 9.6 changed its handling of quantified constraints, in particular the one in the superclass list of GEq1 https://hackage.haskell.org/package/transformers-compat-0.7.2/docs/Data-Functor-Classes-Generic-In…
2024-11-05 15:42:07 +0100SlackCoder(~SlackCode@64-94-63-8.ip.weststar.net.ky) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2024-11-05 15:43:00 +0100 <iphy> Good question, I haven't checked the versions
2024-11-05 15:43:05 +0100 <iphy> But thanks, I'll try that
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2024-11-05 16:19:37 +0100Leonard26(~Leonard26@49.236.10.26)
2024-11-05 16:21:38 +0100merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2024-11-05 16:23:02 +0100 <Leonard26> Hello! =D I was wondering if in Haskell there is a way to simulate pointers like in C/C++?
2024-11-05 16:23:02 +0100 <Leonard26> Particularly I am interested in reproducing this piece of code
2024-11-05 16:23:03 +0100 <Leonard26> static GstElement *cur_effect;
2024-11-05 16:23:03 +0100 <Leonard26> I'm not sure how it is even called in C, I've only learned Haskell up so far, from what I understand it's some type of static variable?
2024-11-05 16:25:07 +0100 <haskellbridge> <hellwolf> IO MVar?
2024-11-05 16:25:42 +0100 <haskellbridge> <hellwolf> unless you want to touch some unsafe stuff.
2024-11-05 16:26:45 +0100 <Leonard26> It tells me that the package is deprecated in favour of another.
2024-11-05 16:26:45 +0100 <Leonard26> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/strict-mvar
2024-11-05 16:27:27 +0100 <Leonard26> I'm a bit concerned of the consequences of unsafe stuff, I think you mean unsafePerformIO?
2024-11-05 16:27:41 +0100merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn
2024-11-05 16:29:12 +0100 <l-Shane-l> {-# LANGUAGE ForeignFunctionInterface #-}
2024-11-05 16:29:12 +0100 <l-Shane-l> and import Foreign.Ptr maybe?
2024-11-05 16:30:00 +0100 <haskellbridge> <hellwolf> stuff from Foreign.Marshal.Array
2024-11-05 16:30:01 +0100 <haskellbridge> <hellwolf> e.g.
2024-11-05 16:30:56 +0100 <haskellbridge> <hellwolf> again, I'd probably start with what do you want to achieve, a lot of safe options will get you quite far in Haskell
2024-11-05 16:31:30 +0100 <haskellbridge> <hellwolf> Retro fit Haskell with what you knew from other languages typically works poorly in Haskell.
2024-11-05 16:32:55 +0100 <Leonard26> Yes, as I understand it Haskell doens't require pointers, that's just because I'm trying to reproduce some code from C I guess
2024-11-05 16:32:57 +0100lxsameer(~lxsameer@Serene/lxsameer) lxsameer
2024-11-05 16:34:19 +0100 <Leonard26> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/iFRl46SM
2024-11-05 16:34:19 +0100 <Leonard26> This is the code I'm trying to reproduce, I managed to get just about everything right but I can't get some variables to work in the functions outside of the main function.
2024-11-05 16:34:20 +0100 <Leonard26> Mainly pad_probe_cb and event_probe_cb
2024-11-05 16:34:42 +0100ash3en(~Thunderbi@2a03:7846:b6eb:101:93ac:a90a:da67:f207) ash3en
2024-11-05 16:34:50 +0100ash3en(~Thunderbi@2a03:7846:b6eb:101:93ac:a90a:da67:f207) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-11-05 16:36:39 +0100 <Leonard26> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/9JN3hbuD
2024-11-05 16:36:40 +0100 <Leonard26> This is my haskell code
2024-11-05 16:36:40 +0100 <Leonard26> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/0FCFJiGp
2024-11-05 16:36:41 +0100 <Leonard26> And this is the error log
2024-11-05 16:37:31 +0100alexherbo2(~alexherbo@2a02-8440-3311-b70e-c993-5f39-72e6-f3a6.rev.sfr.net) alexherbo2
2024-11-05 16:38:36 +0100 <Leonard26> In C all those variables are defined at the beginning of the code, like so
2024-11-05 16:38:36 +0100 <Leonard26> static GstPad *blockpad;
2024-11-05 16:38:37 +0100 <Leonard26> static GstElement *conv_before;
2024-11-05 16:38:37 +0100 <Leonard26> static GstElement *conv_after;
2024-11-05 16:38:38 +0100 <Leonard26> static GstElement *cur_effect;
2024-11-05 16:38:38 +0100 <Leonard26> static GstElement *pipeline;
2024-11-05 16:38:39 +0100 <Leonard26> But in Haskell I can't figure out a way to reproduce this =(
2024-11-05 16:40:45 +0100 <geekosaur> there are ways to do it, but we strongly prefer passing them in either `State` or `ReaderT` with a record of the "environment" (if they're mutable, it's `ReaderT Env IO` with `ENV` being a record of `IORef`s)
2024-11-05 16:41:11 +0100 <geekosaur> and use `StateT`/`ReaderT` to transparently pass it around as needed
2024-11-05 16:41:45 +0100 <institor> gtk on windows huh...
2024-11-05 16:41:54 +0100tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2024-11-05 16:41:56 +0100 <institor> on a more concrete level, `source` and `pipeline` simply aren't defined
2024-11-05 16:42:01 +0100 <institor> what are you expecting these to be
2024-11-05 16:42:24 +0100 <institor> the names are just not in scope
2024-11-05 16:43:50 +0100 <Leonard26> They are defined in main, row 148 and 156
2024-11-05 16:45:02 +0100 <Leonard26> I'll read on about `State` and `ReaderT`, thank you
2024-11-05 16:45:18 +0100alp(~alp@2001:861:e3d6:8f80:86cd:f9bc:2fcc:950e)
2024-11-05 16:47:57 +0100Smiles(uid551636@id-551636.lymington.irccloud.com) Smiles
2024-11-05 16:51:34 +0100tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
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2024-11-05 16:59:09 +0100longlongdouble(~longlongd@2405:201:5c16:135:7459:cd00:c885:3805)
2024-11-05 17:04:44 +0100tabaqui(~root@91.73.194.130) tabaqui
2024-11-05 17:04:45 +0100merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn
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2024-11-05 17:11:54 +0100spew(~spew@155.133.15.183) spew
2024-11-05 17:16:09 +0100lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:55ab:e185:7f81:54a4) (Quit: WeeChat 4.2.2)
2024-11-05 17:19:02 +0100 <institor> Leonard26: then they are only in scope in `main`
2024-11-05 17:19:22 +0100 <institor> Leonard26: you would do well to understand how `do` notation desugars into the bind operator
2024-11-05 17:19:25 +0100 <institor> as a synopsis
2024-11-05 17:21:47 +0100 <institor> foo :: IO ()
2024-11-05 17:21:51 +0100 <institor> foo = do
2024-11-05 17:21:56 +0100 <institor> putSTr "Enter name: "
2024-11-05 17:22:00 +0100 <institor> name <- getLine
2024-11-05 17:22:07 +0100 <institor> putStrLn $ "Hello " ++ name
2024-11-05 17:22:09 +0100 <institor> desugars to
2024-11-05 17:22:13 +0100 <merijn> In fact, for educational purposes I would recommend avoiding do notation
2024-11-05 17:22:40 +0100 <institor> putStr "Enter name: " >> getLine >>= (\name -> putStrLn $ "Hello " ++ name)
2024-11-05 17:22:44 +0100 <institor> s/putSTr/putStr
2024-11-05 17:22:51 +0100 <institor> sorry, i don't believe in copy/paste
2024-11-05 17:23:02 +0100 <institor> i agree with merijn
2024-11-05 17:23:21 +0100 <institor> in fact i usually consider do notation a mild code smell
2024-11-05 17:23:27 +0100 <institor> it suggests there is too much orchestration going on
2024-11-05 17:23:32 +0100 <merijn> I disagree with that, tbh
2024-11-05 17:23:44 +0100 <merijn> I *love* do notation, it's amazing
2024-11-05 17:23:59 +0100 <merijn> Just not for gaining understanding of what you're doing if you don't already know :)
2024-11-05 17:24:09 +0100 <institor> maybe
2024-11-05 17:24:13 +0100euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-006-148-028.176.6.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-11-05 17:24:15 +0100 <institor> in any case i also use it liberally myself
2024-11-05 17:24:30 +0100euleritian(~euleritia@77.22.252.56)
2024-11-05 17:24:34 +0100 <institor> i suppose i am just lazy to find pointfree solutions
2024-11-05 17:24:41 +0100 <institor> s/lazy/too lazy
2024-11-05 17:24:57 +0100 <institor> eh maybe i don't mean pointfree
2024-11-05 17:25:02 +0100 <institor> i will shut up now
2024-11-05 17:26:24 +0100tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2024-11-05 17:29:00 +0100euleritian(~euleritia@77.22.252.56) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2024-11-05 17:32:06 +0100 <Leonard26> I'm fairly new to coding, to be honest now that I'm here I'm thinking it would have been better if I started with C in the first place because the language bindings are such hell sometimes, but at the time I didn't really know where to begin with, so now I'm just trying to finish this project in Haskell and move on :]
2024-11-05 17:33:10 +0100tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2024-11-05 17:33:20 +0100ash3en(~Thunderbi@146.70.124.222) ash3en
2024-11-05 17:35:12 +0100 <geekosaur> C has its own problems, mostly that it won't stop you from shooting yourself in the foot
2024-11-05 17:35:18 +0100 <geekosaur> <-- longtime C programmer
2024-11-05 17:37:10 +0100 <kuribas> It's good to know a bit of all, basics of C, functional programming in haskell, ...
2024-11-05 17:37:56 +0100 <c_wraith> As far as I can tell, C makes it almost impossible to not shoot yourself in the foot.
2024-11-05 17:38:50 +0100 <c_wraith> You have to make simplifying assumptions before you know that adding two ints together is safe.
2024-11-05 17:40:13 +0100 <merijn> c_wraith: Just use unsigned :p
2024-11-05 17:40:19 +0100JuanDaugherty(~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) (Quit: JuanDaugherty)
2024-11-05 17:40:37 +0100 <Leonard26> Well, now I'm feeling relieved! :')
2024-11-05 17:40:40 +0100 <c_wraith> It's tempting, until you see all the bugs related to subtracting size_t values!
2024-11-05 17:40:45 +0100euleritian(~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2024-11-05 17:41:48 +0100 <merijn> Leonard26: I mean, I have written quite a lot of C/C++ professionally and I'm pretty sure I never wrote anything over 100 lines that didn't have at least several potential bugs in it despite my paranoia :p
2024-11-05 17:43:13 +0100 <dolio> Doesn't really seem like a claim that C is better on its own merits. Just that there's some complicated system being used that's written in C and not Haskell.
2024-11-05 17:43:52 +0100 <haskellbridge> <hellwolf> which makes them complicated
2024-11-05 17:44:32 +0100 <Leonard26> merijn sucks :(
2024-11-05 17:45:13 +0100 <haskellbridge> <hellwolf> but fair enough. I was a C++ person for a good decade or more.
2024-11-05 17:50:48 +0100merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2024-11-05 17:51:42 +0100 <Rembane> c_wraith: Is it totally safe to subtract size_ts until you wrap around?
2024-11-05 17:52:11 +0100 <c_wraith> depends on your definition of "safe"
2024-11-05 17:52:43 +0100 <Rembane> Pick a good one!
2024-11-05 17:52:46 +0100 <c_wraith> it's not UB
2024-11-05 17:52:48 +0100 <Rembane> \o/
2024-11-05 17:52:55 +0100 <Rembane> Is it derp in a defined way?
2024-11-05 17:53:25 +0100 <c_wraith> I think it's implementation-defined
2024-11-05 17:55:12 +0100 <c_wraith> but in either case, it doesn't make much sense with size_t, so it's very likely to result in logic bugs elsewhere. those are the kinds of issues I was referring to
2024-11-05 17:55:23 +0100 <Rembane> Exciting! :D
2024-11-05 17:55:43 +0100 <Rembane> Maybe size_t is one of those types of number that shouldn't have subtraction nor addition.
2024-11-05 17:55:50 +0100 <Rembane> I don't really know, I'm just guessing.
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2024-11-05 18:09:10 +0100 <tomsmeding> c_wraith: are you saying that you can't subtract size_t values?
2024-11-05 18:09:32 +0100 <tomsmeding> ("can't" in the sense of "the implementation might decide to do something weird")
2024-11-05 18:09:42 +0100 <c_wraith> no.
2024-11-05 18:09:45 +0100 <geekosaur> UB if it would be negative
2024-11-05 18:09:47 +0100Versality(~Versality@user/Versality) Versality
2024-11-05 18:09:59 +0100 <c_wraith> im pretty sure it's not UB, as it's an unsigned type
2024-11-05 18:10:03 +0100 <tomsmeding> unsigned integer wraparound is defined in C; does that not extend to size_t?
2024-11-05 18:10:43 +0100 <tomsmeding> c_wraith: "no" to "subtract" or "no" to "can't" :D
2024-11-05 18:11:06 +0100 <c_wraith> just that the results are often going to violate assumptions made elsewhere on the program. that has been a recurring source of bugs in programs. arithmetic that would be right with a signed type being wrong with an unsigned type
2024-11-05 18:11:18 +0100 <tomsmeding> because of wraparound?
2024-11-05 18:11:23 +0100 <c_wraith> yeah
2024-11-05 18:11:28 +0100 <tomsmeding> okay sure
2024-11-05 18:11:43 +0100 <tomsmeding> so what did you mean with "implementation-defined"?
2024-11-05 18:12:32 +0100 <c_wraith> I can't remember if C defines the results as wrapping, saturating, or makes it implementation-defined
2024-11-05 18:12:45 +0100 <tomsmeding> for regular old unsigned types, it's wrapping
2024-11-05 18:13:03 +0100 <tomsmeding> (certainly not saturating because then the common implementations would be wrong)
2024-11-05 18:13:08 +0100 <c_wraith> in all cases it *is* defined!
2024-11-05 18:13:24 +0100 <tomsmeding> and I'm fairly sure that it's actually _defined_ to wrap, not only implementation-defined
2024-11-05 18:14:36 +0100Pozyomka(~pyon@user/pyon) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2024-11-05 18:14:42 +0100 <tomsmeding> wikipedia agrees with me (last paragraph of the introduction) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integer_overflow
2024-11-05 18:14:50 +0100 <tomsmeding> now I'm aware that wikipedia is not a definitive source :)
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2024-11-05 19:45:48 +0100TheCoffeMaker(~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker) TheCoffeMaker
2024-11-05 19:49:25 +0100 <dolio> I tried to look in my copy of the standard, but it's hard to find stuff in there.
2024-11-05 19:49:55 +0100 <tomsmeding> dolio++ for even trying
2024-11-05 19:50:14 +0100 <dolio> I probably don't know what term to search for.
2024-11-05 19:50:25 +0100 <tomsmeding> the wikipedia article has a citation, perhaps that helps?
2024-11-05 19:50:29 +0100 <tomsmeding> it refers to C11
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2024-11-05 19:57:59 +0100SlackCoder(~SlackCode@64-94-63-8.ip.weststar.net.ky) SlackCoder
2024-11-05 19:58:52 +0100TheCoffeMaker(~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker) TheCoffeMaker
2024-11-05 19:59:24 +0100longlongdouble(~longlongd@2405:201:5c16:135:7459:cd00:c885:3805) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2024-11-05 19:59:55 +0100 <dolio> I think that's probably the one I have, but they only appear to cite the entire document.
2024-11-05 20:00:55 +0100 <tomsmeding> dolio: I suppose you have a physical copy? With a digital one, I would search for the quoted "a computation involving unsigned operands can never overflow"
2024-11-05 20:01:07 +0100AWizzArd(~code@gehrels.uberspace.de) (Changing host)
2024-11-05 20:01:07 +0100AWizzArd(~code@user/awizzard) AWizzard
2024-11-05 20:01:46 +0100 <dolio> Oh okay. Yeah.
2024-11-05 20:02:38 +0100 <tomsmeding> here (C11 draft: https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/n1570.pdf ) I find, in section 9.2.5 paragraph 9: "A computation involving unsigned operands can never overflow, because a result that cannot be represented by the resulting unsigned integer type is reduced modulo the number that is one greater than the largest value that can be represented by the resulting type."
2024-11-05 20:02:48 +0100 <dolio> It's defined to be modular arithmetic. And apparently the reason I was having trouble is that C considers that to not be "overflow".
2024-11-05 20:03:20 +0100 <tomsmeding> I agree it's somewhat confusing terminology
2024-11-05 20:03:25 +0100 <tomsmeding> c_wraith: ^
2024-11-05 20:03:37 +0100 <tomsmeding> I guess also Rembane
2024-11-05 20:03:40 +0100 <dolio> So if you look in the index for overflow, you won't get that page, I expect.
2024-11-05 20:03:44 +0100 <tomsmeding> heh
2024-11-05 20:04:43 +0100 <Rembane> tomsmeding: Lovely! Fun! I can't see how that every could go wrong. :D
2024-11-05 20:05:07 +0100 <tomsmeding> Rembane: unsigned integers wrapping? What alternative would you suggest :p
2024-11-05 20:05:17 +0100 <dolio> (And just searching for "overflow" in the document has too many hits.)
2024-11-05 20:05:17 +0100 <tomsmeding> I guess the only other sensible alternative is trapping
2024-11-05 20:05:31 +0100 <Rembane> tomsmeding: I think I'm more of the trapping school.
2024-11-05 20:05:35 +0100 <Rembane> tomsmeding: But IIRC that's super slow.
2024-11-05 20:05:47 +0100 <tomsmeding> Rembane: depends on the cpu, I think
2024-11-05 20:05:55 +0100ZLima12(~zlima12@user/meow/ZLima12) ZLima12
2024-11-05 20:06:04 +0100 <Rembane> tomsmeding: Sweet. Maybe I have mixed it up with actually doing bounds checking before the fact.
2024-11-05 20:06:10 +0100 <tomsmeding> x86 has an overflow (! naming ._.) flag that you can check for with a single conditional branch instruction
2024-11-05 20:06:46 +0100 <tomsmeding> a very predictable branch, at that, so while it does increase your code size and increases the pressure on the branch predictor cache, it won't be _too_ egregious
2024-11-05 20:07:31 +0100 <tomsmeding> bounds checking typically involves more than 1 instruction, perhaps even a memory load for the size of the array
2024-11-05 20:07:57 +0100 <Rembane> Good point. Then that instruction shouldn't be too heavy.
2024-11-05 20:08:10 +0100 <tomsmeding> and people have array accesses in the dependency chain (how is that called again?) in hot loops, but usually not unsigned integer arithmetic :p
2024-11-05 20:08:31 +0100 <tomsmeding> well, I guess index arithmetic could be unsigned integer arithmetic, but it's _signed_ integer arithmetic in practice in C
2024-11-05 20:11:12 +0100 <monochrom> BTW the unsigned modulo rule is (in C 2018) 6.2.5 item 9.
2024-11-05 20:11:20 +0100 <tomsmeding> we found it :)
2024-11-05 20:11:40 +0100 <tomsmeding> (though I found it in C11 -- apparently the section numbering didn't change significantly from C11 to C18?)
2024-11-05 20:11:59 +0100 <monochrom> Hrm maybe I should also download the C11 and other versions. (University grants access.)
2024-11-05 20:12:26 +0100 <tomsmeding> er -- I said "9.2.5 paragraph 9" but that was a typo/thinko, should have been 6.2.5 par 9, clearly
2024-11-05 20:12:56 +0100 <dolio> I assume 2018 still isn't free?
2024-11-05 20:13:07 +0100 <tomsmeding> are any free?
2024-11-05 20:13:16 +0100 <dolio> Yeah, the one I have was free.
2024-11-05 20:13:23 +0100 <tomsmeding> O.o
2024-11-05 20:13:24 +0100 <dolio> I'm not going to pay for something like that.
2024-11-05 20:13:34 +0100 <tomsmeding> where did you get it
2024-11-05 20:13:47 +0100 <monochrom> Is it a draft?
2024-11-05 20:14:34 +0100 <tomsmeding> drafts are free indeed, I have never seen anyone before claim that a _final_ version was free
2024-11-05 20:14:43 +0100 <tomsmeding> ISO won't even sell me C11 any more -.-
2024-11-05 20:15:01 +0100 <dolio> Ah, well, drafts are good enough for me.
2024-11-05 20:15:19 +0100 <tomsmeding> they are enough for everyone by plain stupidity of charging for the actual version
2024-11-05 20:15:27 +0100 <tomsmeding> the draft _becomes_ the de facto actual version
2024-11-05 20:15:48 +0100 <tomsmeding> <insert further rant about pointlessness of charging for a _standard_>
2024-11-05 20:16:30 +0100 <dolio> I mainly wanted it to go through and nitpick all the ways in which the supposedly glorious C standard wasn't as well defined as someone here was presenting it as.
2024-11-05 20:16:46 +0100 <dolio> vs. Haskell.
2024-11-05 20:16:52 +0100 <tomsmeding> glorious?
2024-11-05 20:17:54 +0100 <tomsmeding> perhaps the authors of the 701-page document can feel self-satisfied with their volume of output, and therewith call the thing "glorious"
2024-11-05 20:18:13 +0100flounders(~flounders@173.246.200.74) flounders
2024-11-05 20:19:26 +0100hgolden__(~hgolden@146.70.173.165) hgolden
2024-11-05 20:19:42 +0100 <monochrom> Both extremes exists. There are also people who unconditionally claim "UB" and they are sometimes wrong. :)
2024-11-05 20:21:35 +0100 <dolio> It was some complaint that the Haskell standard doesn't nail down the exact implementation behavior of enough things. But C really doesn't, either, for a lot of things if you actually look.
2024-11-05 20:22:04 +0100hgolden_(~hgolden@169.150.203.36) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-11-05 20:22:19 +0100tomsmedingwas told at some point that the C standard actually guarantees very little about implementation details
2024-11-05 20:23:04 +0100 <tomsmeding> due to wanting to support platforms with very unusual (or historical) pointer representations, etc.
2024-11-05 20:23:20 +0100JuanDaugherty(~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) JuanDaugherty
2024-11-05 20:23:27 +0100swamp_(~zmt00@user/zmt00) zmt00
2024-11-05 20:24:42 +0100 <dolio> Yeah. There's no guarantee that differen't types inhabit the same memory, so things like casting between different pointer types isn't necessarily kosher.
2024-11-05 20:25:13 +0100emma-underscores(~underscor@pool-108-54-214-254.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: WeeChat 4.4.3)
2024-11-05 20:25:14 +0100 <tomsmeding> hence the cast-through-a-union dance
2024-11-05 20:25:29 +0100 <dolio> Or exact representations of all the integer types.
2024-11-05 20:25:29 +0100 <tomsmeding> because that, supposedly, _is_ defined (or so I was told)
2024-11-05 20:25:40 +0100 <tomsmeding> hence undefined signed integer overflow
2024-11-05 20:27:21 +0100zmt01(~zmt00@user/zmt00) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2024-11-05 20:31:01 +0100 <dolio> What is cast-through-a-union? I'd have to look, but I wouldn't necessarily expect a pointer to a union to be guaranteed to have the same address space as a pointer to either of its components.
2024-11-05 20:31:12 +0100target_i(~target_i@user/target-i/x-6023099) target_i
2024-11-05 20:31:23 +0100 <dolio> Also, I think there's no guarantee that writing to one field of a union and reading from a different field actually works.
2024-11-05 20:31:39 +0100 <tomsmeding> no it's not a general casting trick, it is essentially c++'s reinterpret_cast
2024-11-05 20:32:04 +0100 <tomsmeding> int32_t float_to_int(float x) { union { int32_t i; float f; } u; u.f = x; return u.i; }
2024-11-05 20:32:21 +0100 <tomsmeding> as opposed to what naive C enthousiasts might write:
2024-11-05 20:32:25 +0100ham2(~ham@user/ham) ham
2024-11-05 20:32:26 +0100hamster(~ham@user/ham) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-11-05 20:32:38 +0100 <tomsmeding> int32_t float_to_int_wrong(float x) { return *(int*)&x; }
2024-11-05 20:32:53 +0100 <tomsmeding> er, *(int32_t*)&x
2024-11-05 20:33:04 +0100 <tomsmeding> dolio: oh isn't there? That would be funny
2024-11-05 20:33:20 +0100 <tomsmeding> I know people are doing this precisely to evade the "pointer casting is not necessarily defined" thing
2024-11-05 20:33:25 +0100 <dolio> There might be special cases where unions like that are defined to work. But not in general, I think.
2024-11-05 20:33:46 +0100 <monochrom> By 6.2.6.2 item 4, you get much guarantees by using memcpy(&dst, &src, the_size).
2024-11-05 20:33:51 +0100Smiles(uid551636@id-551636.lymington.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2024-11-05 20:34:59 +0100 <tomsmeding> monochrom: what standard version are you looking at? In my draft copy of C11, 6.2.6.2#4 is about bitwise operators applied to negative zero
2024-11-05 20:35:03 +0100 <tomsmeding> (of all things)
2024-11-05 20:35:25 +0100 <monochrom> OK OK nitpicking: It only says "copying to unsigned char[n] is OK", they probably forgot to say anything about "from". :)
2024-11-05 20:35:31 +0100 <monochrom> 2018
2024-11-05 20:36:31 +0100 <tomsmeding> monochrom: same https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/n2310.pdf (page 48, pdfpage 35)
2024-11-05 20:36:39 +0100L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-11-05 20:37:41 +0100 <probie> tomsmeding: I'm pretty sure that use of a union is also not kosher. I'm 90% sure that reading u.i after setting u.f is UB
2024-11-05 20:37:55 +0100tomsmedingis too lazy to actually go search in the standard myself
2024-11-05 20:38:25 +0100 <monochrom> Oh! Oops, 6.2.6.1 rule 4.
2024-11-05 20:38:26 +0100 <tomsmeding> probie: would that mean that memcpy() is the only defined way to look at the bits of a float value?
2024-11-05 20:39:58 +0100 <tomsmeding> monochrom: that "e.g." is tantalising
2024-11-05 20:40:41 +0100 <monochrom> Programmers probably don't make great lawyers. :)
2024-11-05 20:42:06 +0100 <tomsmeding> and indeed it is funny that they don't say that "copying _from_ unsigned char[n]" is fine
2024-11-05 20:42:32 +0100 <monochrom> "It is safe to copy your data to /dev/null" >:)
2024-11-05 20:42:56 +0100flounders(~flounders@173.246.200.74) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-11-05 20:44:20 +0100 <tomsmeding> probie: footnote 99 on page 72 (pdfpage 59) in section 6.5.2.3 item 3 is relevant here ( https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/n2310.pdf )
2024-11-05 20:44:35 +0100 <tomsmeding> (found by <ctrl-F> "object repr")
2024-11-05 20:45:03 +0100flounders(~flounders@2607:fb91:f6f:855:576:16c:1a7a:3eb2) flounders
2024-11-05 20:45:30 +0100 <tomsmeding> monochrom: so I guess one can memcpy() to an unsigned char[n], put that in a union together with the original type, and take the original type out
2024-11-05 20:45:45 +0100 <tomsmeding> if you don't change the value, it's not a trap representation, and you're safe -- if I'm reading this correctly
2024-11-05 20:47:05 +0100 <tomsmeding> integer types can have trap representations according to the standard, so indeed probie: that union is not kosher!
2024-11-05 20:47:25 +0100 <tomsmeding> (the float value might have an object representation that is a trap representation for int)
2024-11-05 20:48:04 +0100 <tomsmeding> (then again, I used 'int32_t', not 'int' -- searching for "int32_t" doesn't have any hits, so that code was implementation-dependent anyway)
2024-11-05 20:48:20 +0100 <tomsmeding> what a crappy language
2024-11-05 20:49:49 +0100 <probie> At least you can 100% safely use unions to convert between a signed int and an unsigned int of the same size
2024-11-05 20:50:37 +0100 <tomsmeding> probie: it says in 6.2.6.2#5 that every signed int object repr is also a valid object repr for the unsigned int of that size
2024-11-05 20:50:45 +0100 <tomsmeding> it doesn't provide the reverse implication
2024-11-05 20:50:55 +0100 <tomsmeding> do they give that elsewhere?
2024-11-05 20:51:32 +0100 <monochrom> Yeah you don't even need union or memcpy for that special case.
2024-11-05 20:51:43 +0100 <tomsmeding> (also that)
2024-11-05 20:52:00 +0100weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-11-05 20:54:04 +0100 <dolio> Are float and int compatible types? Seems like the only way the union thing might work.
2024-11-05 20:54:11 +0100 <probie> I should clarify; I'm not saying you should do it, I'm just saying it's a guaranteed predictable case. Since 6.2.6 doesn't explicitly specify a representation for floats, the representation is unspecified (as per 6.2.6.1.1)
2024-11-05 20:54:13 +0100 <dolio> But I don't see anything saying they are.
2024-11-05 20:56:59 +0100 <tomsmeding> dolio: "compatible" seems to be intended for equal types, composite types composed of compatible types (inductively), or enum <-> the underlying int
2024-11-05 20:57:25 +0100 <tomsmeding> e.g. _Generic selects by "compatible" type, which would be pointless if float and int were compatible
2024-11-05 20:57:35 +0100 <tomsmeding> (6.5.1.1)
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2024-11-05 21:02:43 +0100ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj
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2024-11-05 21:03:09 +0100euphores(~SASL_euph@user/euphores) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2024-11-05 21:04:54 +0100justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy) justsomeguy
2024-11-05 21:06:11 +0100 <probie> If you want to "be safe" you also probably need to check that `__STDC_IEC_559__` is defined, so that you're guaranteed the normal IEEE-754 representations for floats
2024-11-05 21:06:31 +0100 <tomsmeding> probie: is that guaranteed to have no trap representations?
2024-11-05 21:06:39 +0100 <tomsmeding> is there a similar thing for `int`?
2024-11-05 21:11:14 +0100L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) L29Ah
2024-11-05 21:11:28 +0100euphores(~SASL_euph@user/euphores) euphores
2024-11-05 21:14:56 +0100 <probie> I just mean that you're guaranteed a representation. The core standard itself defines that for ints, but if `__STDC_IEC_559__` isn't defined, there's nothing stopping an implementation having `float` and `double` be the same type, or using something different to what you'd expect, like posits
2024-11-05 21:15:01 +0100weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) user363627
2024-11-05 21:19:24 +0100 <tomsmeding> probie: in my reading of the standard, it doesn't guarantee that `int` has no trap representations
2024-11-05 21:20:00 +0100 <tomsmeding> otherwise, in 6.2.6.2#5, the "(non-trap)" would be redundant
2024-11-05 21:20:55 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-11-05 21:25:17 +0100briandaed(~root@185.234.210.211) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-11-05 21:25:50 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2024-11-05 21:27:55 +0100 <tomsmeding> monochrom: reflecting a little bit, while 6.2.6.1#4 is overly restrictive in only allowing to copy _to_ unsigned char[n] and not necessarily _from_, footnote 99 in 6.5.2.3#3 does say that as long as you don't hit trap representations, you can convert through a union
2024-11-05 21:29:22 +0100son0p(~ff@181.237.206.243) son0p
2024-11-05 21:33:23 +0100monochromdownloaded the finalized C11 through university access, and snickers at the uncaught typo they had to publish a corrigendum later.
2024-11-05 21:33:53 +0100machinedgod(~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod
2024-11-05 21:34:09 +0100 <tomsmeding> monochrom: from where did you download that? I wanna check if my university pays for this madness too
2024-11-05 21:34:09 +0100SlackCoder(~SlackCode@64-94-63-8.ip.weststar.net.ky) (Quit: Leaving)
2024-11-05 21:35:20 +0100 <monochrom> So basically they left, e.g., _ _STDC_VERSION_ _ defined as 201ymmL and forgot to fix that. The corrigendum then said "oh we mean 201112L". There are a couple others similar macros.
2024-11-05 21:35:40 +0100 <tomsmeding> that's funny
2024-11-05 21:35:51 +0100 <monochrom> My university library website refers me to techstreet.com.
2024-11-05 21:35:56 +0100 <tomsmeding> O.o
2024-11-05 21:36:02 +0100 <monochrom> or rather, links me to.
2024-11-05 21:36:21 +0100 <tomsmeding> that doesn't seem to have an A record
2024-11-05 21:36:37 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-11-05 21:37:19 +0100 <monochrom> OK right it has to be subscriptions.techstreet.com
2024-11-05 21:37:26 +0100lxsameer(~lxsameer@Serene/lxsameer) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2024-11-05 21:37:30 +0100Guest7(~Guest7@137.79.192.219)
2024-11-05 21:37:53 +0100Guest5(~Guest5@137.79.192.219)
2024-11-05 21:38:33 +0100 <monochrom> That is strange. I thought it was 2024 and no one would set up x.y.com without also setting up y.com.
2024-11-05 21:38:57 +0100Guest5(~Guest5@137.79.192.219) (Client Quit)
2024-11-05 21:38:58 +0100 <tomsmeding> oh this seems to be a subscription manager that your university contracted?
2024-11-05 21:39:08 +0100 <monochrom> Counterexample to the fundamental theorem of DNS "DNS is suffix-closed". >:)
2024-11-05 21:39:47 +0100 <tomsmeding> can't find anything for "9899:2024" in the title field, supposedly that should have found it
2024-11-05 21:39:51 +0100 <monochrom> I don't actually know.
2024-11-05 21:40:11 +0100 <monochrom> Right they haven't had 2024 yet, only 2018 for now.
2024-11-05 21:40:36 +0100 <monochrom> But they also have old ones esp. c11 and c99 if you still want them.
2024-11-05 21:40:37 +0100sprotte24_(~sprotte24@p200300d16f3f2c00b0d50a9d74dbbab9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2024-11-05 21:41:27 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2024-11-05 21:44:42 +0100sprotte24(~sprotte24@134.245.44.86) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2024-11-05 21:51:59 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-11-05 21:56:38 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-11-05 21:59:02 +0100Guest7(~Guest7@137.79.192.219) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2024-11-05 22:05:29 +0100CoolMa7(~CoolMa7@ip5f5b8957.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) CoolMa7
2024-11-05 22:07:21 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-11-05 22:11:54 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-11-05 22:12:57 +0100postcerebral(~postcereb@user/postcerebral) postcerebral
2024-11-05 22:17:50 +0100JuanDaugherty(~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) (Quit: JuanDaugherty)
2024-11-05 22:19:46 +0100ash3en(~Thunderbi@2a03:7846:b6eb:101:93ac:a90a:da67:f207) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2024-11-05 22:20:05 +0100ash3en(~Thunderbi@146.70.124.222) ash3en
2024-11-05 22:20:20 +0100justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2024-11-05 22:20:59 +0100Everything(~Everythin@178-133-16-55.mobile.vf-ua.net) Everything
2024-11-05 22:21:53 +0100justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy) justsomeguy
2024-11-05 22:22:46 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-11-05 22:25:14 +0100ubert(~Thunderbi@178.115.51.39.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-11-05 22:27:08 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2024-11-05 22:27:36 +0100ubert(~Thunderbi@178.115.51.39.wireless.dyn.drei.com) ubert
2024-11-05 22:28:00 +0100ash3en1(~Thunderbi@2a03:7846:b6eb:101:93ac:a90a:da67:f207) ash3en
2024-11-05 22:29:00 +0100ash3en(~Thunderbi@146.70.124.222) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-11-05 22:29:01 +0100ash3en1ash3en
2024-11-05 22:30:16 +0100Zer000(~02@64.137.132.10) Zer000
2024-11-05 22:30:48 +0100 <Zer000> Is there a mirror for wiki.haskell.org?
2024-11-05 22:31:30 +0100takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-11-05 22:33:09 +0100 <tomsmeding> the wiki has been offline since yesterday, admins are working on it -- it's a botched upgrade
2024-11-05 22:33:37 +0100 <tomsmeding> (i.e. known issue)
2024-11-05 22:36:13 +0100ubert(~Thunderbi@178.115.51.39.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Quit: ubert)
2024-11-05 22:36:31 +0100ubert(~Thunderbi@178.115.51.39.wireless.dyn.drei.com) ubert
2024-11-05 22:37:02 +0100ubert(~Thunderbi@178.115.51.39.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Client Quit)
2024-11-05 22:37:13 +0100ubert1(~Thunderbi@178.115.51.39.wireless.dyn.drei.com) ubert
2024-11-05 22:38:08 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-11-05 22:38:25 +0100sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) (Quit: sord937)
2024-11-05 22:39:34 +0100ubert1ubert
2024-11-05 22:42:33 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2024-11-05 22:46:33 +0100target_i(~target_i@user/target-i/x-6023099) (Quit: leaving)
2024-11-05 22:49:13 +0100notzmv(~daniel@user/notzmv) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2024-11-05 22:52:18 +0100ubert(~Thunderbi@178.115.51.39.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2024-11-05 22:53:30 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-11-05 22:54:15 +0100harveypwca(~harveypwc@2601:246:d080:b40:1889:d9bf:2dd8:b288) HarveyPwca
2024-11-05 22:55:22 +0100 <justsomeguy> I hope they have snapshots and load balancers.
2024-11-05 22:55:51 +0100 <mauke> does anyone know if there's a copy of c11 freely available somewhere?
2024-11-05 22:56:25 +0100 <mauke> (or at least a reasonable price, i.e. not hundreds of dollars for a superseded standard)
2024-11-05 22:56:27 +0100hgolden(~hgolden@static-198-44-129-51.cust.tzulo.com) hgolden
2024-11-05 22:57:10 +0100 <dolio> Is a draft good enough? I'm pretty sure I got mine from the ANSI site.
2024-11-05 22:57:41 +0100hgolden__(~hgolden@146.70.173.165) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2024-11-05 23:00:25 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-11-05 23:00:33 +0100justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-11-05 23:00:38 +0100tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2024-11-05 23:01:31 +0100 <mauke> I already have the drafts
2024-11-05 23:03:52 +0100 <dolio> Ah.
2024-11-05 23:04:11 +0100CoolMa7(~CoolMa7@ip5f5b8957.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2024-11-05 23:04:21 +0100 <monochrom> I think I heard that they don't even sell the superseded standard. (Alternatively, you can call it infinitely many dollars. :) )
2024-11-05 23:04:42 +0100abenson(~user@109.255.240.83)
2024-11-05 23:05:08 +0100CoolMa7(~CoolMa7@ip5f5b8957.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) CoolMa7
2024-11-05 23:05:09 +0100 <mauke> I'm still salty because at one point (in the early 2000s?) they had C89 as a pdf file for like ... $18?
2024-11-05 23:05:24 +0100 <mauke> but the only accepted payment method was a credit card, which I didn't have
2024-11-05 23:06:09 +0100 <mauke> a couple years later, when I had access to a credit card, the price was suddenly around $200
2024-11-05 23:06:34 +0100 <mauke> or 300?
2024-11-05 23:09:45 +0100L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2024-11-05 23:09:53 +0100CoolMa7(~CoolMa7@ip5f5b8957.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2024-11-05 23:11:34 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-11-05 23:16:18 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-11-05 23:17:08 +0100michalz(~michalz@185.246.207.203) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2024-11-05 23:24:43 +0100ChaiTRex(~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) ChaiTRex
2024-11-05 23:26:53 +0100ash3en1(~Thunderbi@193.32.248.167) ash3en
2024-11-05 23:26:57 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-11-05 23:28:03 +0100ash3en(~Thunderbi@2a03:7846:b6eb:101:93ac:a90a:da67:f207) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2024-11-05 23:28:03 +0100ash3en1ash3en
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2024-11-05 23:37:10 +0100L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) L29Ah
2024-11-05 23:37:43 +0100Zer000(~02@64.137.132.10) (Quit: Leaving)
2024-11-05 23:42:19 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-11-05 23:42:22 +0100Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) Sgeo
2024-11-05 23:46:10 +0100ash3en1(~Thunderbi@2a03:7846:b6eb:101:93ac:a90a:da67:f207) ash3en
2024-11-05 23:46:36 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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2024-11-05 23:48:23 +0100ash3en1ash3en