| 2026-02-05 00:01:34 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:10a6:5d4a:b26:4065) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2026-02-05 00:04:09 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-02-05 00:08:56 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2026-02-05 00:15:24 +0100 | mange | (~mange@user/mange) mange |
| 2026-02-05 00:18:37 +0100 | paddymahoney | (~paddymaho@pool-99-250-10-137.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2026-02-05 00:19:53 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-02-05 00:24:13 +0100 | paddymahoney | (~paddymaho@pool-99-250-10-137.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 2026-02-05 00:24:55 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2026-02-05 00:28:55 +0100 | vanishingideal | (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2026-02-05 00:33:40 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-02-05 00:38:15 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2026-02-05 00:40:50 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> There still are actual malfunctions out there, like faulty ram modules that flip some bits. |
| 2026-02-05 00:41:26 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> good luck figuring out what is because of such a malfunction and what comes from programmer brainfarts :P |
| 2026-02-05 00:44:07 +0100 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@71.84.33.135) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2026-02-05 00:49:23 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-02-05 00:50:38 +0100 | <EvanR> | not just faulty ram, unless it's by definition, even space grade chips will be giving a rating in terms of probability |
| 2026-02-05 00:51:48 +0100 | <lantti> | isn't it still a programmers decision if it is acceptable that such malfunctions cause a program to fail (considering severity and probability etc.)? |
| 2026-02-05 00:52:39 +0100 | <lantti> | if it is not then the programmer must take that into consideration and have reduncancy and whatnot |
| 2026-02-05 00:52:43 +0100 | <EvanR> | that's the esolang I was talking about |
| 2026-02-05 00:52:55 +0100 | <jreicher> | I wish my workplace tested with chaosmonkey |
| 2026-02-05 00:52:57 +0100 | <EvanR> | where code is deterioriating around you, and it's up to the programmer to somehow deal with it |
| 2026-02-05 00:53:20 +0100 | <lantti> | oh, sorry I didn't read back far enough |
| 2026-02-05 00:53:23 +0100 | <EvanR> | instead of assuming we have this luxurious ideal computer |
| 2026-02-05 00:53:38 +0100 | qqq | (~qqq@185.54.21.178) |
| 2026-02-05 00:54:00 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> I remember random flips from alpha particles were actual problem for some ram chips |
| 2026-02-05 00:54:01 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> but there's some possibility that space radiation could flip a bit in any chip |
| 2026-02-05 00:54:24 +0100 | <EvanR> | I need to find this page by superkuh, which lists all the reasons the bits could flip |
| 2026-02-05 00:54:27 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> and probably many other sources of bad things that could happem.. |
| 2026-02-05 00:54:54 +0100 | <EvanR> | space radiation over here, the material your chip is made of has a % of radioactive material in it, ... |
| 2026-02-05 00:56:03 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2026-02-05 00:56:17 +0100 | <EvanR> | https://esolangs.org/wiki/Entropy |
| 2026-02-05 00:56:28 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> maybe even just above average thermal fluctuation, given how small chips are now |
| 2026-02-05 00:56:40 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> dense that is |
| 2026-02-05 01:07:26 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-02-05 01:10:09 +0100 | trickard_ | trickard |
| 2026-02-05 01:12:29 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2026-02-05 01:13:12 +0100 | weary-traveler | (~user@user/user363627) user363627 |
| 2026-02-05 01:13:29 +0100 | EvanR | (~EvanR@user/evanr) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2026-02-05 01:15:02 +0100 | EvanR | (~EvanR@user/evanr) EvanR |
| 2026-02-05 01:16:19 +0100 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) Sgeo |
| 2026-02-05 01:21:30 +0100 | vidak | (~vidak@2407:e400:7800:2c01:d0be:76f8:cc84:bd4a) vidak |
| 2026-02-05 01:23:10 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-02-05 01:27:42 +0100 | haritz | (~hrtz@user/haritz) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1+deb12u1 - https://znc.in) |
| 2026-02-05 01:27:50 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2026-02-05 01:34:58 +0100 | Googulator | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-216f-0081-f2ad-9e0f-9d89.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2026-02-05 01:35:08 +0100 | cyphase | (~cyphase@user/cyphase) cyphase |
| 2026-02-05 01:35:12 +0100 | Googulator | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-216f-0081-f2ad-9e0f-9d89.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 2026-02-05 01:38:19 +0100 | w00ter | (~w00ter@user/w00ter) (Quit: Leaving...) |
| 2026-02-05 01:38:56 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2026-02-05 01:50:14 +0100 | Square2 | (~Square@user/square) Square |
| 2026-02-05 01:54:43 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-02-05 01:55:18 +0100 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@85-156-32-207.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.) |
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| 2026-02-05 02:26:51 +0100 | hakutaku | (~textual@user/hakutaku) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
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| 2026-02-05 03:15:18 +0100 | hakutaku | (~textual@user/hakutaku) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2026-02-05 03:20:25 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
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| 2026-02-05 03:40:23 +0100 | pavonia_ | (~user@user/siracusa) siracusa |
| 2026-02-05 03:40:35 +0100 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2026-02-05 03:40:56 +0100 | pavonia_ | pavonia |
| 2026-02-05 03:46:38 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2026-02-05 03:59:27 +0100 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Quit: Laa shay'a waqi'un moutlaq bale kouloun moumkine) |
| 2026-02-05 03:59:49 +0100 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) Lord_of_Life |
| 2026-02-05 04:00:01 +0100 | attlin | (~user@user/attlin) (Quit: Leaving) |
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| 2026-02-05 04:02:26 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2026-02-05 04:40:31 +0100 | Googulator | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-216f-0081-f2ad-9e0f-9d89.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2026-02-05 04:40:45 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2026-02-05 04:40:47 +0100 | Googulator | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-216f-0081-f2ad-9e0f-9d89.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 2026-02-05 04:48:50 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2026-02-05 05:01:43 +0100 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@71.84.33.135) peterbecich |
| 2026-02-05 05:02:31 +0100 | chexum_ | (~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2026-02-05 05:02:42 +0100 | chexum | (~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum) chexum |
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| 2026-02-05 05:07:02 +0100 | omidmash | (~omidmash@user/omidmash) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat) |
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| 2026-02-05 08:49:18 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:4842:24c6:bd5c:fe37) |
| 2026-02-05 08:49:52 +0100 | trickard | (~trickard@cpe-61-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2026-02-05 08:50:05 +0100 | trickard_ | (~trickard@cpe-61-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 2026-02-05 08:50:37 +0100 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2026-02-05 08:51:19 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2026-02-05 08:51:52 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-02-05 08:56:49 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2026-02-05 09:07:18 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-02-05 09:12:24 +0100 | ChaiTRex | (~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2026-02-05 09:12:34 +0100 | ChaiTRex | (~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) ChaiTRex |
| 2026-02-05 09:13:49 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2026-02-05 09:23:41 +0100 | emmanuelux | (~em@user/emmanuelux) (Quit: bye) |
| 2026-02-05 09:25:20 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-02-05 09:25:21 +0100 | lbseale | (~quassel@user/ep1ctetus) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2026-02-05 09:27:07 +0100 | emmanuelux | (~em@user/emmanuelux) emmanuelux |
| 2026-02-05 09:30:19 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2026-02-05 09:41:25 +0100 | ouilemur | (~jgmerritt@user/ouilemur) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2026-02-05 09:42:29 +0100 | emmanuelux | (~em@user/emmanuelux) (Quit: bye) |
| 2026-02-05 09:43:09 +0100 | ouilemur | (~jgmerritt@user/ouilemur) ouilemur |
| 2026-02-05 10:00:18 +0100 | tzh | (~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz) |
| 2026-02-05 10:07:47 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn |
| 2026-02-05 10:12:02 +0100 | sord937 | (~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) sord937 |
| 2026-02-05 10:13:38 +0100 | trickard_ | trickard |
| 2026-02-05 10:19:49 +0100 | chele | (~chele@user/chele) chele |
| 2026-02-05 10:25:18 +0100 | gentauro | Hmmm, I just realized that in SML (and derivates such as OCaml, …) the "not equal operator" (a <> b) states that `a > b` or `a < b`: https://smlhelp.github.io/book/docs/start/syntax/#boolean-operation |
| 2026-02-05 10:26:43 +0100 | gentauro | which somehow makes sense. In HaskeLLM `/=` (division equals) is not that intuitive. That said, it took me like "ages" to realize `<>` xD |
| 2026-02-05 10:29:32 +0100 | <Googulator> | Makes sense... if you're only thinking of real number and other intuitively sortable types. "Less than or greater than" is a downright lie e.g. for complex numbers. |
| 2026-02-05 10:34:42 +0100 | <gentauro> | Googulator: I don't think we have complex numbers in SML (or derivates) |
| 2026-02-05 10:34:45 +0100 | <gentauro> | I might be wrong |
| 2026-02-05 10:40:32 +0100 | xff0x_ | (~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp) (Quit: xff0x_) |
| 2026-02-05 10:42:10 +0100 | trickard | (~trickard@cpe-61-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2026-02-05 10:42:23 +0100 | trickard_ | (~trickard@cpe-61-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 2026-02-05 10:42:50 +0100 | xff0x | (~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp) |
| 2026-02-05 10:43:03 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | gentauro: you probably already know this, but for completeness, /= is ≠ |
| 2026-02-05 10:44:07 +0100 | trickard_ | (~trickard@cpe-61-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2026-02-05 10:45:06 +0100 | <probie> | Just pick an ordering on complex numbers and call it a day |
| 2026-02-05 10:45:15 +0100 | tremon | (~tremon@83.80.159.219) tremon |
| 2026-02-05 10:45:27 +0100 | <probie> | We're already going to hell for misusing `Ord` |
| 2026-02-05 10:47:40 +0100 | <probie> | > let { nan = 0/(0 :: Double); m = M.fromList [(nan, 3), (nan, 4)] } in (m, nan `M.member` m) |
| 2026-02-05 10:47:41 +0100 | <lambdabot> | (fromList [(NaN,3),(NaN,4)],False) |
| 2026-02-05 10:50:16 +0100 | <Leary> | Yeah, `Ord` is (or has become) a class for types that support /some/ decidable total order, however arbitrary. `Complex` poses no issue whatsoever, but e.g `IORef` might---it supports equality testing but not ordering. |
| 2026-02-05 10:51:36 +0100 | <probie> | Personally, I suggest `instance (Ord a) => Ord (Complex a) where compare (a :+ b) (c :+ d) = compare (a,b) (c,d)` |
| 2026-02-05 10:52:17 +0100 | <Leary> | Yes, that's what would be derived, and what we should have. |
| 2026-02-05 10:53:11 +0100 | trickard_ | (~trickard@cpe-61-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 2026-02-05 10:53:39 +0100 | <int-e> | Eh half of the time I feel like using it I end up copying Complex anyway, so I can have instance Num a => Num (Complex a) |
| 2026-02-05 10:53:41 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | I think there's a good argument to be made for _not_ having that instance. I know floats are a mess anyway, but at least it's considered basic programming knowledge that ordering on floats is a mess |
| 2026-02-05 10:55:03 +0100 | tomsmeding | was wondering why Complex doesn't have that instance, but it's magnitude computation in abs and signum |
| 2026-02-05 10:55:11 +0100 | <int-e> | (if anybody ever makes a new Haskell derivative, `abs` and `signum` should be in their own class) |
| 2026-02-05 10:55:22 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | yes, yet another reason for Num to be nonsense |
| 2026-02-05 10:55:43 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | fromInteger also |
| 2026-02-05 10:55:58 +0100 | <int-e> | tomsmeding: In that context I wouldn't care about abs and signum so I'd use abs = id and signum 0 = 0, signum _ = 1 |
| 2026-02-05 10:56:06 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | I imagined yes |
| 2026-02-05 11:00:08 +0100 | mjrosenb | (~mjrosenb@pool-71-190-143-170.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |