2024/07/18

2024-07-18 00:01:10 +0200jkachmar(~jkachmar@pool-108-41-84-203.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: Client closed)
2024-07-18 00:04:12 +0200 <monochrom> I too am against saying the broad "AI" for the specific "LLM". But people already have been saying the super-broad "computer" for the super-specific "PCs running Windows" for decades. It's a lost cause.
2024-07-18 00:05:02 +0200 <monochrom> Fortunately, in RTS gaming circles, "play against AI" exists too. >:)
2024-07-18 00:05:38 +0200 <dolio> I thought a computer is a mathematician engaging in formal symbol manipulation.
2024-07-18 00:05:58 +0200dysthesis(~dysthesis@user/dysthesis)
2024-07-18 00:06:33 +0200 <EvanR> I thought the computer was the CRT monitor
2024-07-18 00:06:55 +0200 <monochrom> Consider also "engineers".
2024-07-18 00:07:25 +0200mreh(~matthew@host86-160-168-12.range86-160.btcentralplus.com)
2024-07-18 00:08:47 +0200 <monochrom> Hell, "math" for "at-most-real-number arithmetic", too.
2024-07-18 00:08:56 +0200 <monochrom> "Do the math."
2024-07-18 00:09:19 +0200 <dolio> Nobody does real number arithmetic.
2024-07-18 00:09:50 +0200 <EvanR> I learned a square root on paper algorithm once
2024-07-18 00:10:10 +0200 <monochrom> I wrote some Haskell code for it too :)
2024-07-18 00:10:18 +0200 <dolio> See, that's a special, easy case.
2024-07-18 00:10:58 +0200CiaoSen(~Jura@2a05:5800:208:1600:e6b9:7aff:fe80:3d03) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2024-07-18 00:13:29 +0200 <monochrom> Darn, I didn't write some Haskelll code for it. I wrote psuedo-Algol.
2024-07-18 00:14:09 +0200 <monochrom> Oh wait, it has "yield". I wrote pseudo-Algol-with-Yield *facepalm*
2024-07-18 00:21:54 +0200misterfish(~misterfis@84.53.85.146) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-07-18 00:23:12 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com)
2024-07-18 00:23:21 +0200 <geekosaur> a computer is someone who operates a room-sized calculator 😛
2024-07-18 00:23:56 +0200 <sprout> a computer traditionally was a cleric that did computations
2024-07-18 00:24:02 +0200 <sprout> often a woman
2024-07-18 00:24:22 +0200 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> anyone ever use a ring in haskell
2024-07-18 00:25:00 +0200 <EvanR> Int with addition?
2024-07-18 00:25:05 +0200 <EvanR> and multiplication
2024-07-18 00:25:13 +0200 <EvanR> it's a good one
2024-07-18 00:26:02 +0200gmg(~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Quit: Leaving)
2024-07-18 00:26:11 +0200 <juri_> thirdofmay18081814goya: I abused a list, making it function as a ring.
2024-07-18 00:26:33 +0200 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> but like an interesting one
2024-07-18 00:26:53 +0200 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> cool
2024-07-18 00:27:10 +0200 <juri_> i did mapping operations with it: mapWithFollower, mapWithNeighbors, and mapWithPredecessor.
2024-07-18 00:27:46 +0200dysthesis(~dysthesis@user/dysthesis) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-07-18 00:27:48 +0200 <juri_> that way i could process a "not ring", and get a "not ring" as the result.
2024-07-18 00:29:10 +0200 <juri_> https://github.com/Haskell-Things/HSlice/blob/master/Graphics/Slicer/Math/Definitions.hs#L217
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2024-07-18 00:44:54 +0200 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> juri_: neat! thanks for link
2024-07-18 00:47:07 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d173-183-246-216.abhsia.telus.net)
2024-07-18 00:49:19 +0200dolio(~dolio@130.44.140.168)
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2024-07-18 01:02:29 +0200loonycyborg(loonycybor@wesnoth/developer/loonycyborg)
2024-07-18 01:09:32 +0200 <monochrom> Ugh, so ring as in cyclic list, circular buffer?
2024-07-18 01:10:53 +0200 <monochrom> This is why I wrote https://www.vex.net/~trebla/humour/tautologies.html #11
2024-07-18 01:10:54 +0200noteness-(~noteness@user/noteness) (Server closed connection)
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2024-07-18 01:11:45 +0200pavonia(~user@user/siracusa)
2024-07-18 01:13:08 +0200 <c_wraith> oh man. If someone says "ring" in here, I just automatically assume they mean the algebraic structure.
2024-07-18 01:13:54 +0200 <monochrom> Among movie junkies, The Ring has a horror vibe. >:)
2024-07-18 01:14:38 +0200 <monochrom> And among Japanese movie junkies, it has a "watered down Hollywoodized vibe, not as good as the original" vibe, too. >:)
2024-07-18 01:15:09 +0200 <monochrom> This is what's wrong with meaningful words. Everyone has a different meaning!
2024-07-18 01:15:21 +0200 <geekosaur> I made that comment in the matrix channel… (re algebraic structure)
2024-07-18 01:15:31 +0200 <monochrom> "The best thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from"
2024-07-18 01:16:05 +0200 <monochrom> Consider even how among mathematicians, 0 may or may not be a "natural number".
2024-07-18 01:16:29 +0200 <monochrom> (But thank God at least they agree on what "0" is. Maybe? :) )
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2024-07-18 01:19:54 +0200madhavanmiui(~madhavanm@2409:40f4:1038:c537:8000::)
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2024-07-18 01:21:14 +0200kqr(~kqr@static.143.81.108.65.clients.your-server.de)
2024-07-18 01:25:01 +0200 <monochrom> A decade ago someone uploaded a package to hackage called "api" and posted in haskell-cafe to announce it and said it's a package for APIs.
2024-07-18 01:25:21 +0200 <monochrom> I was like "ugh at least have the courtesy to call it web API".
2024-07-18 01:25:40 +0200 <monochrom> And this circles back to calling LLM "AI", too.
2024-07-18 01:29:27 +0200geekosaurremembers that
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2024-07-18 02:04:21 +0200 <jackdk> I'm glad someone else cares about namespace etiquette
2024-07-18 02:04:55 +0200 <monochrom> "Get off my lawn and namespace" >:D
2024-07-18 02:04:59 +0200oo_miguel(~Thunderbi@78.10.207.46) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2024-07-18 02:05:16 +0200 <geekosaur> whoever namespaced haskell when hierarchical modules were added clearly didn't 😛
2024-07-18 02:06:24 +0200 <geekosaur> (fr: extension `Coinflip` that tries `Control` and `Data` to find a module)
2024-07-18 02:06:34 +0200 <monochrom> Data.Machine and Control.Lens are my favourite irony. :)
2024-07-18 02:08:26 +0200 <monochrom> Oh BTW about ring and algebraic structure: My colleague is teaching 2nd-year linear algebra (so more axioms and proofs than matrix calculations). For some reason he teaches rings first, but he calls it "algebraic structure" in class, and recently he has confirmed: it is to confound web searches and chatgpt.
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2024-07-18 02:40:51 +0200 <jle`> hah, i wonder how that plays out
2024-07-18 02:41:29 +0200 <jle`> although all things consdiered, 'ring' already has pretty poor SEO
2024-07-18 02:41:45 +0200 <monochrom> Pretty sure it works. But not as cool as my trick >:D
2024-07-18 02:42:10 +0200 <jle`> D:>
2024-07-18 02:43:30 +0200 <monochrom> I gave an assignment that used decision trees (the ones with probabilities) as an instance of the probability monad type class. Now of course I must not call it "probability monad" for googleability reasons.
2024-07-18 02:44:01 +0200 <monochrom> I have a cunning idea! I'll call it "the random monad"!
2024-07-18 02:44:26 +0200 <monochrom> I know I had positive success because a student legit emailed me "May I import Control.Monad.Random"?
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2024-07-18 02:46:46 +0200 <monochrom> With chatgpt if you say "math ring" you will get pretty good hits. And by the time if you post a complete question like "prove such and such for rings" it will be right on.
2024-07-18 02:50:45 +0200 <monochrom> But with a linear algebra course you must eventually say "vector space" and the TAs have shown me student work that is very sus. The writing style and bullet-pointing can only be from a textbook author or chatgpt parroting such textbooks.
2024-07-18 02:51:19 +0200 <monochrom> Like, no human student writes bullet points when the question is "prove this".
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2024-07-18 04:06:20 +0200 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> You can tell chatgpt to avoid bullet points 😂
2024-07-18 04:06:46 +0200 <monochrom> Haha. Now how would a cheating student not think of that.
2024-07-18 04:07:10 +0200 <monochrom> Or maybe s/not// depending on which one is more sarcastic >:)
2024-07-18 04:08:28 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d173-183-246-216.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2024-07-18 04:09:04 +0200 <monochrom> LLM becomes just another programming language except it's less consistent than PL/I and worse it is fully undocumented.
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2024-07-18 04:18:27 +0200 <edwardk> monochrom: control.lens was just because data.lens existed already in data-lens =)
2024-07-18 04:18:40 +0200 <monochrom> haha
2024-07-18 04:19:11 +0200 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> anyone got a nix flake for haskell projects i can look at
2024-07-18 04:19:50 +0200 <geekosaur> what haskell projects do you have in mind?
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2024-07-18 04:21:14 +0200 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> geekosaur: anything, i just want examples of how people structure their haskell flake
2024-07-18 04:22:15 +0200td_(~td@i5387091D.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-07-18 04:22:44 +0200 <raehik> thirdofmay18081814goya: I have many examples on github using haskell-flake if you are curious, here is one https://github.com/raehik/symparsec/blob/a452f9c02a1c197fd6dabfdb16e8997237adbbac/flake.nix
2024-07-18 04:22:58 +0200 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> raehik: nice! thanks a lot!
2024-07-18 04:22:59 +0200 <Axman6> pphttps://social.treehouse.systems/@bodil/112803678537596411 is how jackdk does it
2024-07-18 04:23:06 +0200 <Axman6> s/pp//
2024-07-18 04:23:22 +0200 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> Axman6: ty!
2024-07-18 04:23:43 +0200 <jackdk> I don't think that's the link you thought you were using
2024-07-18 04:23:44 +0200 <raehik> Axman6: that's a link to a mastodon tweet about Nvidia?
2024-07-18 04:24:09 +0200td_(~td@i53870925.versanet.de)
2024-07-18 04:24:58 +0200 <Axman6> uh
2024-07-18 04:25:02 +0200 <Axman6> https://git.sr.ht/~jack/mudcore/tree/master/item/flake.nix
2024-07-18 04:25:24 +0200 <Axman6> miscopied. Bodil is pretty good though, so you're welcome
2024-07-18 04:25:52 +0200 <jackdk> That's a C project; try https://git.sr.ht/~jack/hslua-fennel-demo/tree/master/item/flake.nix ?
2024-07-18 04:26:10 +0200 <Axman6> I thoguht mudcore was Haskell? Oh well
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2024-07-18 04:26:36 +0200 <jackdk> Nah, though I do have a haskell wrapper around libtelnet which I never built upon
2024-07-18 04:26:47 +0200haveo(~weechat@pacamara.iuwt.fr)
2024-07-18 04:27:04 +0200Axman6retroactively invokes cunningham's law
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2024-07-18 05:13:04 +0200aforemny(~aforemny@89.245.22.233) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2024-07-18 05:13:04 +0200 <haskellbridge> <Bowuigi> monochrom: Note that LLMs are terrible at proving stuff, specially if it is abstract. Don't rely on them for learning, only for rewriting, simplifying and getting other points of view on specific topics
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2024-07-18 05:29:46 +0200thaumavorio(~thaumavor@thaumavor.io)
2024-07-18 05:33:46 +0200 <jle`> honestly if i was still teaching i would just grade the crap that LLMs spew out on their own merits. especially seeing the haskell code that it emits
2024-07-18 05:34:21 +0200 <jle`> that might not work anymore in 3-4 years admittedly
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2024-07-18 05:40:51 +0200 <monochrom> Then people will say "you need an AI to understand Haskell" >:D
2024-07-18 05:43:02 +0200 <geekosaur> they probably already do
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2024-07-18 05:57:49 +0200 <jle`> i was under the impression all of you were AI like me this whole time
2024-07-18 05:58:55 +0200 <monochrom> I am a better AI than you. >:D
2024-07-18 05:59:10 +0200 <jle`> D:
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2024-07-18 06:38:42 +0200 <mauke> aï aï cthulhu fhtagn
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