2024/09/28

2024-09-28 00:01:30 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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2024-09-28 00:06:03 +0200ft(~ft@p4fc2acce.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) ft
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2024-09-28 00:09:30 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2024-09-28 00:09:53 +0200ski. o O ( "What is a Naperian Container?" by Peter Hancock in 2005-06-19 at <https://web.archive.org/web/20170313140037/http://sneezy.cs.nott.ac.uk/containers/blog/?p=14> )
2024-09-28 00:12:43 +0200polyphem(~rod@p4fc2ccf6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2024-09-28 00:12:53 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
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2024-09-28 00:20:06 +0200irssi(~Rembane@user/Rembane) Rembane
2024-09-28 00:21:09 +0200irssiRembane
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2024-09-28 00:24:10 +0200 <monochrom> A functor F that is isomorphic to (->)I for some index set/type I. The most familiar example is Stream as (->)ℕ. Another one is a finite example like "data Pair a = P a a" being (->)Bool.
2024-09-28 00:26:56 +0200 <monochrom> Bool->X (for example) is like X^Bool, exponentiation, so going from Bool->X to X is like logarithm. Logarithm is from Napier, so "Naperian".
2024-09-28 00:27:53 +0200 <monochrom> Err no, going from Bool->X to Bool is logarithm.
2024-09-28 00:29:07 +0200 <EvanR> ok there's an index type or space
2024-09-28 00:29:26 +0200 <monochrom> or in general, given F X, you ask what's I, and the answer is log(F X) = log(X^I) = I.
2024-09-28 00:29:29 +0200symdrome(~user@2804:1e78:2202:2220::416) symdrome
2024-09-28 00:29:59 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-09-28 00:30:02 +0200 <monochrom> If you say "but that's just Reader" or "but that's just representable functor", you're right. :)
2024-09-28 00:31:37 +0200 <EvanR> dependency injection functor
2024-09-28 00:31:49 +0200 <monochrom> But in practice, people use the special name "Naperian" to emphasize that they also provide you with the type I and the functions going between F X and I->X.
2024-09-28 00:33:12 +0200 <monochrom> https://www.cs.ox.ac.uk/publications/publication10857-abstract.html is a paper I particularly like about this (and some other stuff).
2024-09-28 00:34:24 +0200 <monochrom> or simply code on hackage: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/naperian or https://hackage.haskell.org/package/Naperian
2024-09-28 00:35:45 +0200 <int-e> all you need for memoization (that wheel must have been reinvented a million times)
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2024-09-28 00:55:03 +0200gmg(~user@user/gehmehgeh) gehmehgeh
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2024-09-28 01:11:26 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich
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2024-09-28 01:11:58 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-09-28 01:14:21 +0200troojg(~troojg@user/troojg) troojg
2024-09-28 01:17:50 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2024-09-28 01:21:46 +0200 <monochrom> And https://www.vex.net/~trebla/tmp/Loeb.hs is me linking up the "memoFix" kind of memoization with the Löb kind by taking log and changing argument order. :)
2024-09-28 01:22:51 +0200alp_(~alp@2001:861:e3d6:8f80:995f:117d:7c12:db9c) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-09-28 01:27:26 +0200 <monochrom> This is a bad dad joke? We have tab :: (I -> a) -> F a, can I call its inverse bat :: F a -> I -> a ?
2024-09-28 01:28:29 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.)
2024-09-28 01:28:37 +0200 <int-e> memoize = lookup . tabulate -- my own boring pet names
2024-09-28 01:29:03 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-09-28 01:31:10 +0200 <monochrom> They are too long. :)
2024-09-28 01:31:33 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d50-99-47-73.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2024-09-28 01:32:04 +0200 <EvanR> tabulate is a good word
2024-09-28 01:32:25 +0200 <EvanR> for a common or should be commonly understood operation
2024-09-28 01:32:38 +0200 <monochrom> I stole it from the Hutton paper. :) But probably Hutton stole in from prior work, too.
2024-09-28 01:32:40 +0200Unicorn_Princess(~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) Unicorn_Princess
2024-09-28 01:32:59 +0200 <monochrom> I will settle for infix (!) for the inverse.
2024-09-28 01:33:33 +0200 <EvanR> I always felt like ! and !! meant the lookup was liable to crash
2024-09-28 01:33:41 +0200 <EvanR> which isn't the case here
2024-09-28 01:33:48 +0200 <monochrom> (which is also very guessable for people who have used Map and Vector etc)
2024-09-28 01:34:06 +0200 <monochrom> Right, this is a safe total lookup :)
2024-09-28 01:34:47 +0200 <EvanR> a roadsign for something totally safe ... probably not a thing
2024-09-28 01:34:56 +0200 <monochrom> haha
2024-09-28 01:35:08 +0200 <EvanR> empty sign
2024-09-28 01:35:28 +0200 <int-e> . o O ( sign reading "eyes on the road" )
2024-09-28 01:35:39 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2024-09-28 01:35:51 +0200 <EvanR> if you're close enough to read this back the hell off
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2024-09-28 01:43:27 +0200sourcetarius(~sourcetar@user/sourcetarius) sourcetarius
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2024-09-28 01:46:32 +0200troydm(~troydm@user/troydm) troydm
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2024-09-28 02:09:26 +0200nitrix(~nitrix@user/meow/nitrix) nitrix
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2024-09-28 02:18:32 +0200CrunchyFlakes(~CrunchyFl@ip1f13e94e.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2024-09-28 02:19:58 +0200spew(~spew@201.141.99.170) (Quit: spew)
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2024-09-28 02:40:22 +0200 <monochrom> Yes! "join s = zipWith (!!) s [0..]" for the stream monad (representable by ℕ) is generalizable to all representable functors as: join m = liftA2 lookup m (tabulate id).
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2024-09-28 03:24:55 +0200 <jackdk> monochrom: if package `bifunctors` can have `Biff` and `Tannen`, as well as `Clown`s to the left and `Joker`s to the right, then you can do whatever you want.
2024-09-28 03:26:19 +0200 <monochrom> haha
2024-09-28 03:32:03 +0200vincent42(uid574193@id-574193.hampstead.irccloud.com)
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2024-09-28 03:37:58 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich
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2024-09-28 03:54:15 +0200 <monochrom> TIL: If two endofunctors are naturally isomophic, then monadness of one of them can be translated to monadness of the other by going through the isomorphism.
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2024-09-28 04:39:55 +0200 <ski> val tabulate : int * (int -> 'a) -> 'a vector (* in SML. also for lists, &c. *)
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2024-09-28 06:59:45 +0200youthlic(~Thunderbi@user/youthlic) youthlic
2024-09-28 07:00:29 +0200CrunchyFlakes(~CrunchyFl@ip1f13e94e.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-09-28 07:00:48 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2024-09-28 07:01:08 +0200morb(~morb@pool-108-41-100-120.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
2024-09-28 07:03:06 +0200CrunchyFlakes(~CrunchyFl@ip1f13e94e.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2024-09-28 07:07:51 +0200synchrom1(~john@2406:5a00:241a:5600:18b:90b7:734:b475) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-09-28 07:09:16 +0200synchromesh(~john@2406:5a00:241a:5600:18b:90b7:734:b475) synchromesh
2024-09-28 07:10:16 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-09-28 07:15:09 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-09-28 07:25:12 +0200vincent42(uid574193@id-574193.hampstead.irccloud.com)
2024-09-28 07:26:04 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-09-28 07:28:21 +0200morb(~morb@pool-108-41-100-120.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-09-28 07:31:01 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2024-09-28 07:41:05 +0200morb(~morb@pool-108-41-100-120.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
2024-09-28 07:41:50 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-09-28 07:46:18 +0200morb(~morb@pool-108-41-100-120.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2024-09-28 07:47:21 +0200misterfish(~misterfis@87.215.131.102) misterfish
2024-09-28 07:47:26 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2024-09-28 07:49:54 +0200athan(~athan@syn-098-153-145-140.biz.spectrum.com) athan
2024-09-28 07:52:19 +0200misterfish(~misterfis@87.215.131.102) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2024-09-28 07:55:31 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-09-28 08:00:15 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-09-28 08:00:37 +0200libertyprime(~libertypr@118-92-68-68.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) libertyprime
2024-09-28 08:02:05 +0200morb(~morb@pool-108-41-100-120.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
2024-09-28 08:04:58 +0200philopsos(~caecilius@user/philopsos) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2024-09-28 08:06:41 +0200morb(~morb@pool-108-41-100-120.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2024-09-28 08:11:18 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-09-28 08:16:30 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2024-09-28 08:19:32 +0200morb(~morb@pool-108-41-100-120.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
2024-09-28 08:24:48 +0200Square(~Square@user/square) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2024-09-28 08:27:05 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-09-28 08:30:45 +0200morb(~morb@pool-108-41-100-120.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2024-09-28 08:31:49 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2024-09-28 08:32:02 +0200m1dnight(~christoph@d8D861908.access.telenet.be) (Quit: WeeChat 4.4.2)
2024-09-28 08:32:48 +0200m1dnight(~christoph@d8D861908.access.telenet.be) m1dnight
2024-09-28 08:33:55 +0200m1dnight(~christoph@d8D861908.access.telenet.be) (Client Quit)
2024-09-28 08:36:07 +0200m1dnight(~christoph@d8D861908.access.telenet.be) m1dnight
2024-09-28 08:42:52 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-09-28 08:45:25 +0200morb(~morb@pool-108-41-100-120.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
2024-09-28 08:47:49 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-09-28 08:48:03 +0200vanishingideal(~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal
2024-09-28 08:48:18 +0200neuroevolutus(~neuroevol@146.70.211.110) neuroevolutus
2024-09-28 08:50:44 +0200morb(~morb@pool-108-41-100-120.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-09-28 08:52:40 +0200takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be)
2024-09-28 08:54:09 +0200vanishingideal(~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2024-09-28 08:55:52 +0200vanishingideal(~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal
2024-09-28 08:56:31 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-09-28 09:00:03 +0200caconym(~caconym@user/caconym) (Quit: bye)
2024-09-28 09:00:13 +0200JamesMowery(~JamesMowe@ip98-167-207-182.ph.ph.cox.net) (Quit: Goodbye)
2024-09-28 09:00:30 +0200JamesMowery(~JamesMowe@ip98-167-207-182.ph.ph.cox.net) JamesMowery
2024-09-28 09:00:41 +0200caconym(~caconym@user/caconym) caconym
2024-09-28 09:01:12 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2024-09-28 09:01:38 +0200vanishingideal(~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2024-09-28 09:03:40 +0200vanishingideal(~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal
2024-09-28 09:04:29 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2024-09-28 09:08:32 +0200billchenchina-(~billchenc@103.152.35.21) billchenchina
2024-09-28 09:12:18 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-09-28 09:14:29 +0200simendsjo(~user@2001:2044:1413:800:c4c9:16db:19ee:b47c) simendsjo
2024-09-28 09:14:29 +0200vanishingideal(~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-09-28 09:16:12 +0200vanishingideal(~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal
2024-09-28 09:17:16 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-09-28 09:19:08 +0200acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e72cfb1220772d8af485911b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk
2024-09-28 09:23:24 +0200weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-09-28 09:23:27 +0200morb(~morb@pool-108-41-100-120.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
2024-09-28 09:24:26 +0200youthlic(~Thunderbi@user/youthlic) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-09-28 09:26:56 +0200youthlic(~Thunderbi@user/youthlic) youthlic
2024-09-28 09:28:02 +0200morb(~morb@pool-108-41-100-120.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2024-09-28 09:28:05 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-09-28 09:33:07 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2024-09-28 09:36:14 +0200foul_owl(~kerry@185.219.141.164) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-09-28 09:42:14 +0200morb(~morb@pool-108-41-100-120.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
2024-09-28 09:43:53 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-09-28 09:47:08 +0200morb(~morb@pool-108-41-100-120.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2024-09-28 09:49:02 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2024-09-28 09:50:41 +0200foul_owl(~kerry@174-21-143-250.tukw.qwest.net) foul_owl
2024-09-28 09:57:08 +0200foul_owl(~kerry@174-21-143-250.tukw.qwest.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2024-09-28 10:00:56 +0200morb(~morb@pool-108-41-100-120.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
2024-09-28 10:06:08 +0200morb(~morb@pool-108-41-100-120.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2024-09-28 10:07:56 +0200vanishingideal(~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2024-09-28 10:08:31 +0200foul_owl(~kerry@185.219.141.160) foul_owl
2024-09-28 10:13:19 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-09-28 10:16:08 +0200econo_(uid147250@id-147250.tinside.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2024-09-28 10:18:43 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2024-09-28 10:25:14 +0200leif(~leif@210.54.33.112)
2024-09-28 10:26:24 +0200leif(~leif@210.54.33.112) ()
2024-09-28 10:26:56 +0200target_i(~target_i@user/target-i/x-6023099) target_i
2024-09-28 10:27:06 +0200misterfish(~misterfis@84.53.85.146) misterfish
2024-09-28 10:27:28 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn