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2024-05-20 12:39:41 +0200lxsameer(~lxsameer@Serene/lxsameer)
2024-05-20 12:40:10 +0200 <lxsameer> hey folks, I'm looking for an open source grahp database with great support for Haskell, any suggestion?
2024-05-20 12:44:02 +0200FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2024-05-20 13:02:21 +0200 <danse-nr3> not sure lxsameer but you can look into hackage for graph database clients that seem well-maintained
2024-05-20 13:04:20 +0200 <lxsameer> danse-nr3: cheers
2024-05-20 13:04:54 +0200Lord_of_Life_(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915)
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2024-05-20 13:06:22 +0200 <danse-nr3> v
2024-05-20 13:07:49 +0200Lord_of_Life_Lord_of_Life
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2024-05-20 14:32:52 +0200lg188(~lg188@82.18.98.230) (Quit: Bye.)
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2024-05-20 14:54:18 +0200 <markasoftware_> is there a library providing an easy way to get a field of a Data-implementing type with the given type? If all the fields of my type have unique types, it'd be much nicer to be able to say `getField myUser :: EmailAddress` rather than either (a) having to declare it as a proper record with accessors or (b) having to destructure it
2024-05-20 14:54:40 +0200 <markasoftware_> I know IxSet does some similar stuff internally to make `ixGen` work but I'm wondering if there's any simple standalone module for it
2024-05-20 14:56:49 +0200fendor(~fendor@2a02:8388:1605:ce00:24e2:c141:1f86:a346)
2024-05-20 15:04:13 +0200 <dmj`> markasoftware_: generic-lens has a getTyped accessor (myUser ^. typed @EmailAddress), some limitations though, the types /have/ to be unique.
2024-05-20 15:04:30 +0200 <dmj`> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/generic-lens-2.2.2.0/docs/Data-Generics-Product-Typed.html
2024-05-20 15:06:51 +0200 <dmj`> unique within a record
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2024-05-20 15:25:20 +0200 <carbolymer> I have a function executing a callback function endlessly. The callback type should allow stopping of the processing. I'm wondering what's the best way to represent this type? e.g. https://bpa.st/N6HQ
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2024-05-20 15:27:38 +0200 <ncf> myFunction :: [Thing] ?
2024-05-20 15:27:54 +0200 <ncf> or does reading require IO
2024-05-20 15:27:59 +0200 <carbolymer> it does
2024-05-20 15:28:28 +0200 <carbolymer> hmm, maybe [IO Thing] ...
2024-05-20 15:29:47 +0200 <carbolymer> myFunction is polling some data source every 500ms, I guess it could be possible to do `[IO Thing]` ...
2024-05-20 15:30:26 +0200 <ncf> wouldn't all the elements of the list be the same?
2024-05-20 15:33:04 +0200haveo(~weechat@pacamara.iuwt.fr) (Quit: WeeChat 4.2.2)
2024-05-20 15:33:05 +0200 <carbolymer> no because those are `IO Thing`, so each element can do whatever IO action it wants
2024-05-20 15:33:47 +0200 <ncf> but in your use case, they're all doing the same polling action, right?
2024-05-20 15:35:07 +0200haveo(~weechat@pacamara.iuwt.fr)
2024-05-20 15:36:39 +0200 <danse-nr3> :t while
2024-05-20 15:36:40 +0200 <lambdabot> error: Variable not in scope: while
2024-05-20 15:36:53 +0200 <danse-nr3> @hoogle while
2024-05-20 15:36:53 +0200 <lambdabot> Sound.Tidal.UI while :: Pattern Bool -> (Pattern a -> Pattern a) -> Pattern a -> Pattern a
2024-05-20 15:36:53 +0200 <lambdabot> Development.NSIS while :: Exp Bool -> Action () -> Action ()
2024-05-20 15:36:53 +0200 <lambdabot> Language.C.Syntax While :: Exp -> Stm -> SrcLoc -> Stm
2024-05-20 15:37:05 +0200 <ncf> if so, you could just have poll :: IO Thing; then, given a callback :: Thing -> IO (Maybe x), you have untilJust (poll >>= callback) :: IO x
2024-05-20 15:37:45 +0200 <danse-nr3> import Control.Monad.Extra
2024-05-20 15:37:50 +0200 <danse-nr3> > import Control.Monad.Extra
2024-05-20 15:37:52 +0200 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:1: error: parse error on input ‘import’
2024-05-20 15:39:18 +0200 <danse-nr3> huh i forgot how to use the bots ...
2024-05-20 15:39:24 +0200 <danse-nr3> % import Control.Monad.Extra
2024-05-20 15:39:24 +0200 <yahb2> <no location info>: error: ; Could not find module ‘Control.Monad.Extra’ ; Perhaps you meant ; Control.Monad.Catch (from exceptions-0.10.5) ; Control.Monad.Error (from mtl-2.2.2...
2024-05-20 15:39:48 +0200 <ncf> you can use /query to figure it out
2024-05-20 15:41:16 +0200 <danse-nr3> well i was thinking of something like untilJust anyways
2024-05-20 15:57:27 +0200 <carbolymer> yeah maybe untilJust is a good idea
2024-05-20 15:59:29 +0200 <carbolymer> I'm wondering if there's a datatype in hackage similar to `data Stream m a = StreamT (m a) (m (Stream m a))`
2024-05-20 16:00:30 +0200 <carbolymer> @hoogle StreamT
2024-05-20 16:00:30 +0200 <lambdabot> Streamly type StreamT = SerialT
2024-05-20 16:00:30 +0200 <lambdabot> Streamly.Internal.Data.Stream.Serial type StreamT = SerialT
2024-05-20 16:00:30 +0200 <lambdabot> System.Process.Typed data StreamType
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2024-05-20 20:38:35 +0200 <lxsameer> hey folks, sorry for my uneducated question: would it be possible to use a static c++ library with Haskell instead of FFI?
2024-05-20 20:39:10 +0200y04nn(~username@2a03:1b20:8:f011::e10d)
2024-05-20 20:41:33 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2024-05-20 20:43:38 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com)
2024-05-20 20:43:53 +0200 <monochrom> I don't understand the question, especially "instead". You have to go through FFI.
2024-05-20 20:46:48 +0200 <lxsameer> monochrom: my bad, I want to link the static lib (cpp) in the final binary and don't want to use dl_open or something to that sort
2024-05-20 20:47:24 +0200ezzieyguywuf(~Unknown@user/ezzieyguywuf) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-05-20 20:47:40 +0200 <tomsmeding> interacting with a c++ API is probably a bad idea, with name mangling and so on, but if your c++ library exposes a C interface, then that should be doable via the standard procedures
2024-05-20 20:47:42 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2024-05-20 20:48:03 +0200 <tomsmeding> tell cabal to link in extra-libraries
2024-05-20 20:48:10 +0200bgamari(~bgamari@64.223.226.84) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2024-05-20 20:48:23 +0200 <tomsmeding> and then expose its functions in haskell via the FFI
2024-05-20 20:48:31 +0200 <tomsmeding> ('foreign' declarations)
2024-05-20 20:48:57 +0200 <monochrom> So you are just asking about static linking. I have never needed it, but I heard other people doing it.
2024-05-20 20:49:44 +0200 <lxsameer> tomsmeding: I can do a static C lib instead of cpp. I have control over that
2024-05-20 20:50:06 +0200 <lxsameer> monochrom: yeah I need it to be static
2024-05-20 20:50:10 +0200 <tomsmeding> I mean, it can be implemented in C++ all you like, as long as you put the functions you want to expose in an `extern "C" { }` block
2024-05-20 20:50:50 +0200ezzieyguywuf(~Unknown@user/ezzieyguywuf)
2024-05-20 20:51:47 +0200 <tomsmeding> though being implemented in c++ means that you'll need to also (dynamically) link against the c++ standard library
2024-05-20 20:52:05 +0200 <tomsmeding> might be as easy as also putting libstdc++ or something similar in extra-libraries
2024-05-20 20:52:06 +0200 <lxsameer> tomsmeding: i statically link against libc++
2024-05-20 20:52:19 +0200bgamari(~bgamari@64.223.238.64)
2024-05-20 20:52:21 +0200 <tomsmeding> ... you can do that?
2024-05-20 20:52:24 +0200 <lxsameer> in general I want a static library
2024-05-20 20:52:33 +0200 <lxsameer> oh yeah, libc++ is pretty easy
2024-05-20 20:52:39 +0200 <tomsmeding> I know that glibc categorically disallows that
2024-05-20 20:52:39 +0200 <lxsameer> *static binary
2024-05-20 20:52:53 +0200 <tomsmeding> but maybe libc++ is easier on that
2024-05-20 20:52:54 +0200 <lxsameer> tomsmeding: yeah, i use musl as well
2024-05-20 20:52:59 +0200 <tomsmeding> ah I see
2024-05-20 20:53:14 +0200raehik(~raehik@rdng-25-b2-v4wan-169990-cust1344.vm39.cable.virginm.net)
2024-05-20 20:53:21 +0200 <lxsameer> my aim is to write parts of my application with haskell and parts in C for interfacing with llvm
2024-05-20 20:53:24 +0200 <tomsmeding> lxsameer: this exists https://hasufell.github.io/posts/2024-04-21-static-linking.html
2024-05-20 20:53:31 +0200 <lxsameer> but at the end I need a static executable
2024-05-20 20:53:37 +0200 <lxsameer> oh cool thanks
2024-05-20 20:53:47 +0200 <tomsmeding> says nothing about c++ specifically
2024-05-20 20:54:00 +0200 <tomsmeding> but might contain pointers to stuff you need anyway
2024-05-20 20:54:04 +0200 <monochrom> Someone has to write the extern"C"{...} API, and Haskell FFI can only call the C API. But it can be done.
2024-05-20 20:54:13 +0200 <lxsameer> tomsmeding: cheers, it is definitely useful
2024-05-20 20:54:20 +0200sadome(~sadome@182.69.179.74)
2024-05-20 20:54:20 +0200sadome(~sadome@182.69.179.74) (Changing host)
2024-05-20 20:54:20 +0200sadome(~sadome@user/sadome)
2024-05-20 20:54:21 +0200sadome(~sadome@user/sadome) (Excess Flood)
2024-05-20 20:55:10 +0200 <lxsameer> monochrom: awesome
2024-05-20 20:55:15 +0200 <sclv> bytestring is probably the best example of linking c++ and using it, but that might be dynamic. i imagine you can toss the extra libraries into the link path and settings and it should be basically ok, but Extremely not portable for building https://hackage.haskell.org/package/bytestring-0.12.1.0/bytestring.cabal
2024-05-20 20:55:51 +0200 <monochrom> OK, writing your own C API for what's morally C++ is an uphill battle in the worst case. But I'm just a theorist.
2024-05-20 20:56:26 +0200 <tomsmeding> llvm has a C api for some part of its API surface
2024-05-20 20:56:42 +0200 <tomsmeding> sclv: I don't see any c++ in that cabal file, just C?
2024-05-20 20:56:57 +0200 <lxsameer> monochrom: since I'm going to interface llvm, the c api is already there
2024-05-20 20:57:10 +0200 <tomsmeding> lxsameer: be aware that the llvm-hs package exists
2024-05-20 20:57:22 +0200 <tomsmeding> on github there's a branch for llvm 15
2024-05-20 20:57:31 +0200 <lxsameer> tomsmeding: it's old
2024-05-20 20:57:44 +0200 <tomsmeding> 15 is still old but less old :)
2024-05-20 20:58:14 +0200 <lxsameer> :D indeed, but i might be able to use it as a reference
2024-05-20 20:58:17 +0200 <sclv> whoops i meant text not bytestring https://hackage.haskell.org/package/text-2.1.1/text.cabal
2024-05-20 20:58:39 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2024-05-20 20:59:05 +0200 <tomsmeding> ah there's a nice chunk of "let's get the c++ stdlib in there the hard way" code
2024-05-20 20:59:19 +0200 <monochrom> Interesting, simdutf.cpp. Does that mean SIMD?
2024-05-20 20:59:42 +0200 <monochrom> Using SIMD instructions for UTF??? encoding so it is faster?
2024-05-20 20:59:51 +0200 <tomsmeding> yes, vectorised UTF* parsing
2024-05-20 21:00:01 +0200 <monochrom> You people are nuts. >:)
2024-05-20 21:00:05 +0200 <sclv> https://github.com/simdutf/simdutf <-- very fast, very complicated, very c++
2024-05-20 21:00:16 +0200 <tomsmeding> daniel lemire stuff
2024-05-20 21:01:01 +0200 <monochrom> Next you are going to need a high-end GPU too...
2024-05-20 21:01:18 +0200 <monochrom> if flag(gpuutf) ...
2024-05-20 21:01:57 +0200 <tomsmeding> I feel like the bandwidth of the data connection to a gpu is less than the speed you can get with good simd code for utf parsing
2024-05-20 21:02:11 +0200 <Rembane> I hope someone makes science on this
2024-05-20 21:02:32 +0200 <monochrom> "Hi I have a question. Every time I run a progrma that uses Data.Text, my GPU frame rate drops to 1 FPS. What's going on?" >:)
2024-05-20 21:03:30 +0200 <mauke> there's potential for fusion here
2024-05-20 21:03:36 +0200 <monochrom> "Certain version of GHC crash on Windows, when TemplateHaskell encounters C++." Hahaha template wars.
2024-05-20 21:03:55 +0200 <tomsmeding> haha oh no
2024-05-20 21:03:56 +0200 <mauke> hw accelerated font rendering
2024-05-20 21:04:08 +0200 <mauke> then do your utf8 decoding in the font
2024-05-20 21:04:20 +0200 <mauke> with ligatures of the bytes or something
2024-05-20 21:04:21 +0200 <monochrom> Haha TIL how to say "false" in cabal prolog: build-depends: base < 0
2024-05-20 21:04:34 +0200 <tomsmeding> don't you have `buildable: False`
2024-05-20 21:04:41 +0200 <tomsmeding> perhaps this cabal file predates that
2024-05-20 21:07:08 +0200mud(~mud@user/kadoban)
2024-05-20 21:07:39 +0200demon-cat(~demon-cat@dund-15-b2-v4wan-169642-cust1347.vm6.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2024-05-20 21:08:46 +0200 <tomsmeding> TIL this exists https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/users_guide/exts/assert.html#assertions
2024-05-20 21:09:36 +0200demon-cat(~demon-cat@dund-15-b2-v4wan-169642-cust1347.vm6.cable.virginm.net)
2024-05-20 21:10:43 +0200 <tomsmeding> and it's apparently super old, judging from this comment right above 'assert': https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/libraries/ghc-internal-9.1001.0-be1e/src//GHC.Intern…
2024-05-20 21:10:54 +0200 <monochrom> Yeah GHC offered that when CallStack didn't exist back then.
2024-05-20 21:11:16 +0200 <tomsmeding> it's vert C
2024-05-20 21:11:18 +0200 <tomsmeding> 8very
2024-05-20 21:11:21 +0200 <tomsmeding> *very
2024-05-20 21:11:25 +0200 <tomsmeding> christ, I can't type any more
2024-05-20 21:11:39 +0200 <monochrom> It's clearly inspired by C's assert. :)
2024-05-20 21:16:07 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2024-05-20 21:16:14 +0200sam113102(~sam@24.157.253.231)
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2024-05-20 21:19:37 +0200Midjak(~MarciZ@82.66.147.146)
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2024-05-20 21:24:35 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2024-05-20 21:28:59 +0200fizbin__(~fizbin@user/fizbin)
2024-05-20 21:44:09 +0200gmg(~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Quit: Leaving)
2024-05-20 21:48:31 +0200gmg(~user@user/gehmehgeh)
2024-05-20 21:48:51 +0200justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy)
2024-05-20 21:49:15 +0200 <justsomeguy> What's the reccomended editor setup to get autocompletion, in-line docs, and linting?
2024-05-20 21:49:39 +0200 <tomsmeding> probably the lowest-effort option is VSCode with the Haskell plugin
2024-05-20 21:50:49 +0200 <tomsmeding> but because most of the functionality is contained in haskell-language-server, which is an LSP server, any editor that supports LSP will work (to the extent that LSP is supported etc.)
2024-05-20 21:53:13 +0200 <justsomeguy> VSCode works well. I was going to untangle the spaghetti code in my dotfiles to get the LSP working with vim but honestly I don't think it's worth the effort.
2024-05-20 21:53:40 +0200tomsmedinguses LSP with neovim's builtin LSP support; it works, but there are some rough edges sometimes
2024-05-20 21:54:47 +0200fizbin__(~fizbin@user/fizbin) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2024-05-20 21:56:53 +0200fizbin__(~fizbin@user/fizbin)
2024-05-20 21:57:28 +0200 <justsomeguy> I should spend a weekend figuring out what an LSP really is and how to set it up properly.
2024-05-20 21:58:45 +0200nickiminjaj(~kvirc@user/laxhh)
2024-05-20 21:58:57 +0200 <geekosaur> LSP per se is Language Server Protocol, a standard for language support services to communicate with editors. haskell-language-server is the language server for Haskell
2024-05-20 21:59:15 +0200 <geekosaur> (there being others such as rust-analyzer)
2024-05-20 21:59:28 +0200 <tomsmeding> justsomeguy: when you open a file in a language L in an editor, the editor spins up L's language server and tells it what file it is. Then whenever you make a change, it sends a message to the server describing the change. It then expects all the rest from the server in reply messages: diagnostics, code actions, etc.
2024-05-20 21:59:56 +0200 <monochrom> LSP is the interface between editors and languages. So that if there are M editors and N languages, then there needs only M+N toolings rather than MxN toolings.
2024-05-20 22:00:00 +0200 <tomsmeding> HLS in particular uses ghc as a library internally, hence it's intrinsically bound to a particular ghc version
2024-05-20 22:00:30 +0200 <tomsmeding> look, you don't even have to do research, ask a question and you get answers in triplicate
2024-05-20 22:00:38 +0200 <justsomeguy> :D
2024-05-20 22:00:48 +0200 <monochrom> Recall how previously there were MxN "language plugins/modes".
2024-05-20 22:00:53 +0200 <geekosaur> @quote antiphony
2024-05-20 22:00:53 +0200 <lambdabot> No quotes match. My pet ferret can type better than you!
2024-05-20 22:00:56 +0200 <geekosaur> bah
2024-05-20 22:01:05 +0200 <tomsmeding> @quote fugue
2024-05-20 22:01:06 +0200 <lambdabot> monochrom says: Welcome to #haskell, where your questions are answered in contrapuntal fugues.
2024-05-20 22:01:08 +0200 <tomsmeding> that one?
2024-05-20 22:01:10 +0200 <monochrom> :)
2024-05-20 22:01:22 +0200 <geekosaur> ah yes, it's changed a few times
2024-05-20 22:01:42 +0200fizbin__(~fizbin@user/fizbin) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-05-20 22:02:01 +0200fizbin__(~fizbin@user/fizbin)
2024-05-20 22:02:01 +0200 <monochrom> We have only @remember'ed two, Cale's stereo and my fugue.
2024-05-20 22:02:02 +0200vgtw(~vgtw@user/vgtw) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2024-05-20 22:02:03 +0200 <darkling> Just one question: why so simple? :)
2024-05-20 22:02:28 +0200 <mauke> I used to have 1 editor (vim) and N language plugins
2024-05-20 22:02:41 +0200 <monochrom> But antiphony sounds like destructive interference so all answers cancel out so there is silence. >:)
2024-05-20 22:03:05 +0200 <mauke> now I need K hls versions in addition, one for each ghc version
2024-05-20 22:03:06 +0200gmg(~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-05-20 22:03:12 +0200 <geekosaur> yeh, it was a sarcastic response to a bunch of answers that contradicted each other some years back
2024-05-20 22:03:20 +0200 <monochrom> Oh haha nice.
2024-05-20 22:03:24 +0200vgtw(~vgtw@user/vgtw)
2024-05-20 22:03:26 +0200 <geekosaur> s/response/reaction/
2024-05-20 22:04:04 +0200gmg(~user@user/gehmehgeh)
2024-05-20 22:04:45 +0200 <monochrom> Well, I may be responsible for part of that. There were a few rare times when other people said "yes" but I said "no".
2024-05-20 22:05:01 +0200 <ncf> @where stereo
2024-05-20 22:05:01 +0200 <lambdabot> I know nothing about stereo.
2024-05-20 22:05:10 +0200 <monochrom> You want:
2024-05-20 22:05:13 +0200 <monochrom> @quote stereo
2024-05-20 22:05:13 +0200 <lambdabot> xplat says: Welcome to #haskell-blah, where your bot commands are executed in triumphant stereo!
2024-05-20 22:05:21 +0200 <monochrom> err there is another one
2024-05-20 22:05:24 +0200 <monochrom> @quote Cale stereo
2024-05-20 22:05:24 +0200 <lambdabot> No quotes match. Do you think like you type?
2024-05-20 22:06:14 +0200 <geekosaur> I am pretty sure that one disappeared years ago, when someone else took over lambdabot from dons but didn't get the databases along with it
2024-05-20 22:06:37 +0200 <EvanR> I remember that one
2024-05-20 22:06:38 +0200 <monochrom> OK I think you can PM lambdabot and keep asking @quote stereo, there are several fun ones. But it looks like Cale's original is lost.
2024-05-20 22:07:33 +0200 <monochrom> It was basically my fugue one with s/contrapunctual fugue/majestic stereo/
2024-05-20 22:08:12 +0200 <tomsmeding> that sounds familiar to even me
2024-05-20 22:08:18 +0200 <tomsmeding> and I'm young in this channel
2024-05-20 22:08:36 +0200 <monochrom> But I love this one:
2024-05-20 22:08:37 +0200 <monochrom> @quote scrollback.*stereo
2024-05-20 22:08:37 +0200 <lambdabot> hpc says: here in #haskell we are aware that reading scrollback is hard, that's why we always answer in majestic stereo
2024-05-20 22:09:41 +0200 <ski> @quote are.in.majestic
2024-05-20 22:09:41 +0200 <lambdabot> monochrom says: Welcome to #haskell, where @remember's are in majestic stereo!
2024-05-20 22:09:49 +0200 <monochrom> >:)
2024-05-20 22:10:01 +0200 <Rembane> :D
2024-05-20 22:11:32 +0200skineeds to get something to drink
2024-05-20 22:12:32 +0200sayola1(~sayola@ip-109-42-241-204.web.vodafone.de)
2024-05-20 22:12:50 +0200 <EvanR> the power of the dot
2024-05-20 22:13:56 +0200sayola(~sayola@ip-109-42-243-154.web.vodafone.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-05-20 22:15:33 +0200 <ski> (water)
2024-05-20 22:18:14 +0200 <tomsmeding> @quote are in majestic
2024-05-20 22:18:15 +0200 <lambdabot> No quotes for this person. And you call yourself a Rocket Surgeon!
2024-05-20 22:18:24 +0200 <tomsmeding> oh it's name<space>regex?
2024-05-20 22:18:51 +0200visilii_(~visilii@188.254.110.134)
2024-05-20 22:19:46 +0200 <ncf> water is good
2024-05-20 22:22:04 +0200visilii(~visilii@188.254.126.77) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2024-05-20 22:22:17 +0200 <monochrom> Yeah it's regex or name regex
2024-05-20 22:22:58 +0200visilii(~visilii@188.254.126.159)
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2024-05-20 22:30:42 +0200Square(~Square@user/square)
2024-05-20 22:30:43 +0200darklingis reminded of a conference tote bag, carried by a colleague in the neuroscience department, which read: "It's not rocket surgery!"
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