Newest at the top
| 2026-07-06 10:05:05 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 243 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 10:04:55 +0000 | <int-e> | danza: it turns out that in programming, a ton of things have a semigroup of monoid structure (often in several different useful ways) but few things are groups |
| 2026-07-06 10:04:52 +0000 | <danza> | can you say "addition is a group"? As far as i understand, a group is an algebra. So it cannot be attributed to a single operation but to a set of operations and terms like neutral ones |
| 2026-07-06 10:04:40 +0000 | chromoblob | (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) chromoblob\0 |
| 2026-07-06 10:03:46 +0000 | chromoblob | (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 10:02:35 +0000 | <int-e> | Monoid existed a long time; Semigroup in base is far more recent |
| 2026-07-06 10:02:02 +0000 | <int-e> | I don't think it exists |
| 2026-07-06 10:01:50 +0000 | <danza> | did you ever use Group in Haskell int-e? Does it even exist? |
| 2026-07-06 10:01:45 +0000 | <jaror> | Yeah, and group from Galois in 1829 |
| 2026-07-06 10:01:26 +0000 | <int-e> | the multiplication is a monoid |
| 2026-07-06 10:01:11 +0000 | <lambdabot> | -42 |
| 2026-07-06 10:01:10 +0000 | <int-e> | danza: Integer has negative numbers; its addition is a group |
| 2026-07-06 10:01:10 +0000 | <mauke> | > negate 42 :: Integer |
| 2026-07-06 10:01:09 +0000 | <danza> | nope i was thinking of Natural but that does not exist |
| 2026-07-06 10:00:51 +0000 | <mauke> | semigroup is from 1904, apparently |
| 2026-07-06 10:00:47 +0000 | <danza> | well integer would not be a Group anyways because it is lacking negative numbers i think? |
| 2026-07-06 10:00:29 +0000 | <yahb2> | type Integer :: * ; data Integer ; = GHC.Internal.Bignum.Integer.IS GHC.Internal.Prim.Int# ; | GHC.Internal.Bignum.Integer.IP GHC.Internal.Prim.ByteArray# ; | GHC.Internal.Bignum.Integer.IN G... |
| 2026-07-06 10:00:29 +0000 | <int-e> | % :i Integer |
| 2026-07-06 10:00:22 +0000 | <int-e> | it needs a space |
| 2026-07-06 09:59:56 +0000 | <danza> | >:i Integer |
| 2026-07-06 09:59:45 +0000 | <danza> | %:i Integer |
| 2026-07-06 09:59:21 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn |
| 2026-07-06 09:59:00 +0000 | <danza> | i never used Group in Haskell. Yet it sounds like an handy concept |
| 2026-07-06 09:58:18 +0000 | comerijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 09:57:55 +0000 | <jaror> | Like 1956 |
| 2026-07-06 09:57:21 +0000 | <jaror> | It seems monoid is much more recent |
| 2026-07-06 09:56:43 +0000 | weary-traveler | (~user@user/user363627) user363627 |
| 2026-07-06 09:56:43 +0000 | <mauke> | https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Magma_to_group4.svg yeah, that's not confusing at all |
| 2026-07-06 09:56:18 +0000 | weary-traveler | (~user@user/user363627) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2026-07-06 09:55:29 +0000 | eggplantade | (~eggplanta@2600:1702:8450:c370:68e2:8150:e673:9bfc) (Ping timeout: 242 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 09:54:28 +0000 | <mauke> | "could be worse" |
| 2026-07-06 09:54:18 +0000 | <mauke> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Magma_to_group2.svg |
| 2026-07-06 09:54:01 +0000 | <fp> | I suppose so, just the juxtaposition with Semigroup makes it feel so random |
| 2026-07-06 09:51:22 +0000 | bitterx | (~bitterx@user/bitterx) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2026-07-06 09:50:56 +0000 | danza | (~danza@user/danza) danza |
| 2026-07-06 09:50:42 +0000 | danza | (~danza@user/danza) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2026-07-06 09:50:26 +0000 | <jaror> | Monoid also makes some intuitive sense to me: it is a type where if you have many (possibly zero) things you can combine them into one (mono). |
| 2026-07-06 09:50:02 +0000 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:340e:2700:ade1:e806:3aae:82f9) |
| 2026-07-06 09:49:39 +0000 | <danza> | a monoid is an algebra with associative operation and a neutral (zero) term, like a Monoid... and so forth |
| 2026-07-06 09:49:35 +0000 | <mauke> | (algebra) |
| 2026-07-06 09:49:30 +0000 | <mauke> | yeah, the whole groups/rings/monoids thing is pure math |
| 2026-07-06 09:48:45 +0000 | <danza> | it is not just category theory. As far as i understand these are algebras. So a semigroup is an algebra defined with an associative operation ... like Semigroup |
| 2026-07-06 09:48:21 +0000 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@2a02:3100:629f:1e00:4e50:ddff:fe9b:8922) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 09:47:35 +0000 | eggplantade | (~eggplanta@2600:1702:8450:c370:68e2:8150:e673:9bfc) |
| 2026-07-06 09:46:54 +0000 | <jaror> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semigroup#History |
| 2026-07-06 09:46:47 +0000 | <jaror> | about semigroup |
| 2026-07-06 09:46:41 +0000 | <jaror> | "A number of sources[18][19] attribute the first use of the term (in French) to J.-A. de Séguier in Élements de la Théorie des Groupes Abstraits (Elements of the Theory of Abstract Groups) in 1904." |
| 2026-07-06 09:46:41 +0000 | <jaror> | Wikipedia says this: |
| 2026-07-06 09:45:49 +0000 | <fp> | Actually, would ML have influenced the name? I know nothing of ML besides it inspired Haskell, OCaml, et al. |
| 2026-07-06 09:45:13 +0000 | <danza> | let's say a _large_ set of textbooks |
