2026/04/03

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2026-04-03 20:52:21 +0000 <geekosaur> In the case of gcc a lot of it is older sources and the rest is things known to trip unsuspecting programmers
2026-04-03 20:51:19 +0000 <tomsmeding> ( https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/users_guide/using-warnings.html#ghc-flag-Wdefault )
2026-04-03 20:51:15 +0000 <tomsmeding> dolio: would -Wdefault do? Or is perhaps -Winaccessible-code too much?
2026-04-03 20:49:04 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2026-04-03 20:48:32 +0000 <Leary> Global coherence and modularity are at odds; responsibility for their coexistence should fall to the language or packaging system. I can't blame 'aeson' for not wanting to write a bunch of orphans---they really shouldn't have to. Hell, they shouldn't even be /allowed/ to.
2026-04-03 20:47:33 +0000 <dolio> I don't do much C, so I don't know about gcc's choices.
2026-04-03 20:47:16 +0000 <dolio> GHC.
2026-04-03 20:47:06 +0000 <tomsmeding> dolio: you mean GHC's -Wall, or also gcc's -Wall?
2026-04-03 20:46:47 +0000 <dolio> It'd have to be trimmed way back, at least.
2026-04-03 20:44:52 +0000 <dolio> I'm not sure any -Wall would be something that I'd endorse, because there are just too many people eager to follow arbitrary coding conventions that trade one error for another, at least in Haskell.
2026-04-03 20:44:06 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-04-03 20:43:45 +0000 <tomsmeding> -Wall not having all warnings, just the generally important ones, is a historical naming error that we're unlikely to be correcting now
2026-04-03 20:42:56 +0000 <dolio> It seems odd to not want all the warnings in -Wall, even though it still doesn't have all the warnings.
2026-04-03 20:38:47 +0000 <geekosaur> and I have in fact heard people respond to your complaint with "so why is it in `-Wall`?"
2026-04-03 20:38:24 +0000 <geekosaur> part of the problem there is people being trained by gcc/g++ where it's usually a good idea
2026-04-03 20:36:36 +0000takuan(~takuan@d8D86B9E9.access.telenet.be) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2026-04-03 20:35:28 +0000 <dolio> Just in general.
2026-04-03 20:35:16 +0000 <dolio> Part of the problem is people unthinkinly obeying stuff in -Wall.
2026-04-03 20:34:14 +0000 <tomsmeding> good, question resolved, it's aeson's problem :p
2026-04-03 20:33:59 +0000 <tomsmeding> agreed
2026-04-03 20:33:52 +0000 <dolio> And the rule should mean that random other idiots shouldn't be writing orphan instances for aeson.
2026-04-03 20:33:36 +0000 <dolio> It seems like it should be okay for aeson to separate a canonical package out with orphan quick check instances.
2026-04-03 20:33:26 +0000 <tomsmeding> but yeah, here I'm really at a loss why there isn't `aeson` and then `aeson-quickcheck` which gives the Arbitrary instances, apart from blowing up the number of tiny packages on Hackage
2026-04-03 20:33:19 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2026-04-03 20:32:47 +0000 <tomsmeding> (which is conventionally weakened to at least "no orphan instances in libraries", because in leaf applications they don't really hurt)
2026-04-03 20:32:44 +0000 <geekosaur> I feel like it should be possible to declare exceptions
2026-04-03 20:32:25 +0000 <dolio> I don't.
2026-04-03 20:32:14 +0000 <tomsmeding> well, GHC's, if you consider GHC's warnings rules
2026-04-03 20:31:50 +0000 <dolio> Whose rule is the no orphans rule?
2026-04-03 20:30:38 +0000 <tomsmeding> the no-orphans rule understandable for soundness, but it has so many bad effects on a package ecosystem
2026-04-03 20:30:09 +0000 <tomsmeding> answer: aeson wants to provide Arbitrary instances for stuff
2026-04-03 20:29:47 +0000 <tomsmeding> there's a whole discussion there but I feel like it all comes down to the problem it always comes down to: why the f*** does aeson even depend on quickcheck
2026-04-03 20:29:20 +0000 <tomsmeding> On the haskell-cafe mailing list there's a remark that aeson doesn't seem to be updated, and that its bound on QuickCheck needs to be bumped; aeson maintainers in turn complain that QuickCheck maintainers have strange views API stability, resulting in aeson not being able to upgrade to newest QuickCheck while keeping aeson's API stability views
2026-04-03 20:28:19 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-04-03 20:17:15 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2026-04-03 20:11:32 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-04-03 20:07:21 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2026-04-03 20:03:56 +0000Digitteknohippie(~user@user/digit) Digit
2026-04-03 20:03:55 +0000Digit(~user@user/digit) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2026-04-03 20:02:11 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-04-03 20:01:21 +0000jmcantrell_(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
2026-04-03 19:58:32 +0000bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) bitdex
2026-04-03 19:57:43 +0000slomp(~slomp@47-158-212-88.lsan.ca.frontiernet.net)
2026-04-03 19:56:58 +0000Lord_of_Life_Lord_of_Life
2026-04-03 19:54:55 +0000Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2026-04-03 19:54:05 +0000Lord_of_Life_(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) Lord_of_Life
2026-04-03 19:53:33 +0000ncf(~ncf@monade.li) ncf
2026-04-03 19:51:12 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2026-04-03 19:46:28 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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