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| 2025-10-19 22:22:58 +0200 | <geekosaur> | meaning any mechanism to access outer contexts will be some form of liftST (viz. liftIO), which isnt flexible enough |
| 2025-10-19 22:22:49 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-10-19 22:21:48 +0200 | esph | (~weechat@user/esph) esph |
| 2025-10-19 22:21:36 +0200 | <geekosaur> | but ST in GHC is based on IO |
| 2025-10-19 22:21:21 +0200 | <geekosaur> | btgw I am getting a strong sense of "an effects system-based ST might be able to do this" |
| 2025-10-19 22:20:24 +0200 | <geekosaur> | so maybe it wasn't crawlers, just something that got missed during the recent move or sth |
| 2025-10-19 22:20:05 +0200 | <geekosaur> | mm, also working here now |
| 2025-10-19 22:19:33 +0200 | <Lycurgus> | confirmed |
| 2025-10-19 22:19:21 +0200 | <geekosaur> | if it's crawler overload, it probably depends on whether you can sneak in between the load |
| 2025-10-19 22:18:51 +0200 | <int-e> | looks like the wiki is better now? |
| 2025-10-19 22:18:36 +0200 | fp1 | fp |
| 2025-10-19 22:18:36 +0200 | fp | (~Thunderbi@2001-14ba-6e24-3000--190.rev.dnainternet.fi) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-10-19 22:18:14 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-10-19 22:17:22 +0200 | fp1 | (~Thunderbi@89-27-10-140.bb.dnainternet.fi) fp |
| 2025-10-19 22:15:26 +0200 | <Lycurgus> | *noun |
| 2025-10-19 22:15:19 +0200 | <Lycurgus> | ok igess if 'leak' can be a shorthard for any vibe related concepts full nonun phrase |
| 2025-10-19 22:14:36 +0200 | <geekosaur> | (unlike mtl, there's no way to infer it from the type the way e.g. liftIO does) |
| 2025-10-19 22:13:50 +0200 | <Lycurgus> | leak |
| 2025-10-19 22:13:24 +0200 | <geekosaur> | if you use liftST instead of importST, this translates to "you must know exactly how many nested liftST are needed to reach the correct outer computation" |
| 2025-10-19 22:12:34 +0200 | <geekosaur> | here's another thing from the paper that says runST isn't enough: "The problem is that the explicit connection between the outer and inner regions in the product type enforces a total order on regions, which leaks into the types of region allocated values." |
| 2025-10-19 22:12:00 +0200 | gorignak | (~gorignak@user/gorignak) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-10-19 22:09:54 +0200 | <Lycurgus> | *partial |
| 2025-10-19 22:09:49 +0200 | <geekosaur> | right, load just got 502 finally |
| 2025-10-19 22:09:47 +0200 | Haskeller0x00 | (~Haskeller@38.49.92.193) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2025-10-19 22:09:23 +0200 | <geekosaur> | but there should be a redirect in that case |
| 2025-10-19 22:09:23 +0200 | <Lycurgus> | yes, i got a partical response b4 it went complelty belly up showing the detested nginx |
| 2025-10-19 22:09:10 +0200 | <geekosaur> | moved is somewhat possible, there were some rearrangements relatively recently due to a security issue |
| 2025-10-19 22:08:46 +0200 | <monochrom> | It should not have moved. It's probably down. |
| 2025-10-19 22:08:31 +0200 | <geekosaur> | just asked in -infrastructure |
| 2025-10-19 22:08:08 +0200 | <geekosaur> | likewise |
| 2025-10-19 22:07:56 +0200 | <darkling> | Down for me. |
| 2025-10-19 22:07:29 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2025-10-19 22:07:20 +0200 | fp | (~Thunderbi@2001-14ba-6e24-3000--190.rev.dnainternet.fi) fp |
| 2025-10-19 22:06:53 +0200 | <Lycurgus> | is wiki.haskell.org down or moved? |
| 2025-10-19 22:06:31 +0200 | wbrawner | (~wbrawner@static.56.224.132.142.clients.your-server.de) wbrawner |
| 2025-10-19 22:03:42 +0200 | <Haskeller0x00> | okay, gotchu :) |
| 2025-10-19 22:02:26 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-10-19 22:02:17 +0200 | <geekosaur> | also re plagiarism, I think simply linking the paper as needed is sufficient |
| 2025-10-19 22:01:56 +0200 | <Haskeller0x00> | Thank you so much y'all! |
| 2025-10-19 22:01:34 +0200 | <geekosaur> | between the Commentary and Notes in the source, ghc internals are very well documented |
| 2025-10-19 22:01:07 +0200 | <Lycurgus> | maybe mastery and hacking are opposites |
| 2025-10-19 22:00:59 +0200 | trickard_ | trickard |
| 2025-10-19 22:00:59 +0200 | <monochrom> | OK OK, or a plugin. |
| 2025-10-19 22:00:39 +0200 | <geekosaur> | as for where you start, it's https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/commentary |
| 2025-10-19 22:00:36 +0200 | <monochrom> | It's either unsafeCoerce or modify GHC source code. |
| 2025-10-19 21:59:54 +0200 | <geekosaur> | gonna take more than that, as I said earlier you need to modify the typechecker if you're implementing that paper |
| 2025-10-19 21:59:43 +0200 | <Lycurgus> | and then i still wouldn |
| 2025-10-19 21:59:42 +0200 | <Haskeller0x00> | hmm... related question: is it a good idea to post code here (and risk plagiarism)? |
| 2025-10-19 21:59:14 +0200 | <Lycurgus> | hack the compiler? I'd master TH 1st. |
| 2025-10-19 21:58:46 +0200 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |