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2025-10-08 20:35:26 +0200 | trickard_ | (~trickard@cpe-52-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
2025-10-08 20:35:25 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-172-222-148-214.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
2025-10-08 20:33:59 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-10-08 20:32:46 +0200 | trickard | (~trickard@cpe-52-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
2025-10-08 20:26:58 +0200 | shapr | (~user@130.44.148.32) shapr |
2025-10-08 20:23:03 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
2025-10-08 20:22:00 +0200 | totbwf | (sid402332@id-402332.uxbridge.irccloud.com) |
2025-10-08 20:20:08 +0200 | totbwf | (sid402332@id-402332.uxbridge.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
2025-10-08 20:18:56 +0200 | Googulator48 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-5967-6f2a-1e2d-f05a.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
2025-10-08 20:18:44 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-172-222-148-214.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich |
2025-10-08 20:18:39 +0200 | Googulator48 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-5967-6f2a-1e2d-f05a.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
2025-10-08 20:18:29 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-10-08 20:12:15 +0200 | weary-traveler | (~user@user/user363627) user363627 |
2025-10-08 20:07:45 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
2025-10-08 20:04:56 +0200 | lxsameer | (~lxsameer@Serene/lxsameer) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
2025-10-08 20:04:08 +0200 | poscat | (~poscat@user/poscat) poscat |
2025-10-08 20:03:55 +0200 | poscat | (~poscat@user/poscat) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-10-08 20:03:33 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:b551:deec:8ee1:7922) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
2025-10-08 20:03:25 +0200 | poscat | (~poscat@user/poscat) poscat |
2025-10-08 20:03:10 +0200 | poscat | (~poscat@user/poscat) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-10-08 20:01:04 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-10-08 20:00:39 +0200 | poscat | (~poscat@user/poscat) poscat |
2025-10-08 20:00:28 +0200 | poscat | (~poscat@user/poscat) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-10-08 19:59:40 +0200 | poscat | (~poscat@user/poscat) poscat |
2025-10-08 19:59:30 +0200 | poscat | (~poscat@user/poscat) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-10-08 19:59:17 +0200 | poscat | (~poscat@user/poscat) poscat |
2025-10-08 19:58:34 +0200 | poscat | (~poscat@user/poscat) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-10-08 19:57:47 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | *counterexample |
2025-10-08 19:57:41 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | the output of a model checker (which is considered "formal methods") on a counter example is, guess what, a backtrace |
2025-10-08 19:57:12 +0200 | <__monty__> | int-e: That's poetry. |
2025-10-08 19:57:03 +0200 | <EvanR> | and don't care |
2025-10-08 19:56:54 +0200 | <EvanR> | the backtrack workflow in other languages is so powerful that dynamic language programmers write 100s of partial functions per file |
2025-10-08 19:56:54 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | anyhow |
2025-10-08 19:56:52 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | no they're probably not lexical, so I lied to bwe |
2025-10-08 19:56:42 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | or wait is that true? |
2025-10-08 19:56:31 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | lexical ones, even |
2025-10-08 19:56:24 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | requies you to rebuild the world, but then you do get better backtraces |
2025-10-08 19:56:13 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | the new automatic profiling backtraces are nice, though |
2025-10-08 19:55:51 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | (I speak from experience) |
2025-10-08 19:55:39 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | which is sometimes very unhelpful |
2025-10-08 19:55:25 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | well that's what I was saying: it shows you where the naughty instance is, but not how the program got there |
2025-10-08 19:55:02 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> in a production codebase it's much less likely (because of needing an unbroken chain of HasCallStack I guess) |
2025-10-08 19:54:58 +0200 | <EvanR> | control F and witnessing the proof for every result found would also work |
2025-10-08 19:54:16 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> tomsmeding: that one was good yes |
2025-10-08 19:54:15 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | chasing false trails in debugging is a demotivating waste of time :p |
2025-10-08 19:53:59 +0200 | <EvanR> | if you have 2 heads, reconsider your ways |
2025-10-08 19:53:56 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | for debugging, yes |
2025-10-08 19:53:42 +0200 | <EvanR> | I guess 2 is spam enough |
2025-10-08 19:53:22 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | EvanR: it doesn't if you have multiple uses of the function |
2025-10-08 19:53:06 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | (: |