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| 2025-05-23 20:58:21 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> hellwolf if you are using haskell productively yourself, speaking about that can be convincing. You might be still deep in DSL implementation though |
| 2025-05-23 20:58:09 +0200 | <monochrom> | But again, that still won't *win*. People have already made up their minds. |
| 2025-05-23 20:57:51 +0200 | <monochrom> | I think I can "win" by pointing out that I use Haskell and I am neither elite nor haxxors. |
| 2025-05-23 20:57:41 +0200 | lol_ | (~lol@2603:3016:1e01:b960:39f8:84ab:20bd:ae78) |
| 2025-05-23 20:57:06 +0200 | <EvanR> | you can't win this argument |
| 2025-05-23 20:56:43 +0200 | <EvanR> | stupid: haskell is only for the elite haxxors |
| 2025-05-23 20:56:10 +0200 | <EvanR> | there are so many stupid justifications for "not haskell" it's ridiculous. Makes it hard to get to the good justifications for not haskell! |
| 2025-05-23 20:55:47 +0200 | <monochrom> | Haha HUGS2026 includes TREX (extensible records) and therefore trumps GHC. >:) |
| 2025-05-23 20:53:50 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 20:53:42 +0200 | <hellwolf> | Yea... showing it is the way; people are rather skeptical, otherwise. |
| 2025-05-23 20:53:42 +0200 | <hellwolf> | 05-23 21:39 <sm> or better, show it. Not easy |
| 2025-05-23 20:53:41 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 20:53:28 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 20:53:25 +0200 | <hellwolf> | HUGS2026? |
| 2025-05-23 20:51:32 +0200 | humasect | (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) humasect |
| 2025-05-23 20:49:01 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-23 20:47:43 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 20:47:33 +0200 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj |
| 2025-05-23 20:47:18 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 20:46:50 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 20:44:45 +0200 | <monochrom> | Anyone wanna volunteer to add GHC2021 to Hugs? >:) |
| 2025-05-23 20:44:16 +0200 | <monochrom> | de facto there is no difference >:) |
| 2025-05-23 20:43:30 +0200 | <sm> | (language extensions, I meant) |
| 2025-05-23 20:42:52 +0200 | dyniec | (~dyniec@dybiec.info) |
| 2025-05-23 20:42:33 +0200 | <sm> | I think when we are discussing "Haskell", we should distinguish language and ecosystem. Outsiders see it all as "Haskell", we insiders often focus on the core language and conveniently forget about tools, documentation, compiler extensions... |
| 2025-05-23 20:42:13 +0200 | dyniec | (~dyniec@dybiec.info) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 20:41:32 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-23 20:40:18 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 20:39:54 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 20:39:36 +0200 | <sm> | or better, show it. Not easy |
| 2025-05-23 20:38:59 +0200 | <sm> | maybe emphasise how an expressive language and advanced type checker is your assistant and power tool, not an obstacle/enemy |
| 2025-05-23 20:38:48 +0200 | <monochrom> | "Haskell contracts are perfectly balanced with no exploits"? >:) |
| 2025-05-23 20:36:50 +0200 | <hellwolf> | that's right, I have made two examples. |
| 2025-05-23 20:36:33 +0200 | <sm> | eg show a list of exploits and bugs in non-haskell smart contracts and a corresponding list for the haskell ones |
| 2025-05-23 20:35:52 +0200 | <hellwolf> | "should" |
| 2025-05-23 20:35:40 +0200 | <sm> | is your audience is people interested in smart contracts ? then large software may not interest them, but high assurance should |
| 2025-05-23 20:35:38 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 20:35:36 +0200 | <hellwolf> | Yea, I guess my angle would be just be modest: hey it works, I am using it, maybe you want to try too. |
| 2025-05-23 20:34:50 +0200 | <hellwolf> | I saw SPJ's comment. I think it was quite spot-on. |
| 2025-05-23 20:34:48 +0200 | <monochrom> | Multiple pyschology research results show that people make up their minds first then rationalize. If you try to defend/debate, it only steels their resolve. |
| 2025-05-23 20:33:53 +0200 | <monochrom> | My advice: Don't bother defending Haskell (or anything). |
| 2025-05-23 20:33:39 +0200 | <sm> | :) |
| 2025-05-23 20:33:04 +0200 | <TMA> | hellwolf: give up any hope. a clear mind devoid of preconceptions, longing and suffering is reportedly useful in such situations |
| 2025-05-23 20:32:52 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 20:32:29 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 20:32:04 +0200 | <sm> | Because Haskell is the result of research and good design decisions, Haskell feels more concise and principled than other languages. -- sgraf |
| 2025-05-23 20:31:45 +0200 | <sm> | In Haskell, it’s possible to do truly major heart-lung-transplant refactors on a 200k-loc code base that is 30 years old. (I know, because I do that to GHC.) That is a major value proposition. Instead of having a 5-year lifetime, your investment has a multi-decade lifetime. -- SPJ |
| 2025-05-23 20:31:32 +0200 | <sm> | here's two good quotes (might not be relevant to your audience though): |
| 2025-05-23 20:31:05 +0200 | <sm> | hellwolf: you might find some inspiration in https://discourse.haskell.org/t/emphasize-why-haskell-on-haskell-org-landing-page/12036 |
| 2025-05-23 20:30:28 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |