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2025-04-06 18:43:49 +0200 | <ski> | er .. i suppose, not with `0'. same issue, though |
2025-04-06 18:42:57 +0200 | <ski> | but we want the neutral element of the given group to be identified with `-1', not with `1', of the group of integers |
2025-04-06 18:42:06 +0200 | <ski> | hmm .. no, that doesn't quite work. coproduct would identify the neutral elements of the two groups |
2025-04-06 18:39:39 +0200 | <ski> | (note, arbitrary groups, not abelian ones) |
2025-04-06 18:39:11 +0200 | <ski> | i suppose you could take coproduct of the given group, and the group of integers |
2025-04-06 18:37:40 +0200 | __monty__ | (~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: Lost terminal) |
2025-04-06 18:37:21 +0200 | <mauke> | and inverse x' = -x - 2? |
2025-04-06 18:37:19 +0200 | ski | idly ponders making this into a word group |
2025-04-06 18:36:05 +0200 | hattckory | (~hattckory@bras-base-toroon4524w-grc-30-70-27-118-207.dsl.bell.ca) |
2025-04-06 18:33:46 +0200 | <monochrom> | Spin-off exercise: Suppose x +++ y = x + y + 1. Prove that +++ is a monoid operation with -1 as the identity. >:) |
2025-04-06 18:29:21 +0200 | <ski> | it sounded like thirdofmay18081814goya wanted something a bit reminiscent of the caching part, but for every bind automatically |
2025-04-06 18:28:32 +0200 | <ski> | i recall doing a CGI monad, which had an `io :: (Show a,Read a) => IO a -> CGI a' operation, caching the result of `IO' operations, serializing them into the generated page (when a query was generated), so that the program could then be resumed, fastforwarded to the point where it left off, to continue on |
2025-04-06 18:28:06 +0200 | <monochrom> | s/is the/in the/ |
2025-04-06 18:27:50 +0200 | <monochrom> | Of course we know the right way is to hide the counter increment is the something else. |
2025-04-06 18:27:42 +0200 | <enikar> | let monads do their job :) |
2025-04-06 18:27:12 +0200 | <monochrom> | Not to endorse it, but presumably the monad also does something else, and the author hides a counter increment in bind as a proxy to count cost. |
2025-04-06 18:26:58 +0200 | amadaluzia | (~amadaluzi@user/amadaluzia) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
2025-04-06 18:24:52 +0200 | <monochrom> | :) |
2025-04-06 18:24:51 +0200 | <enikar> | I don't understand the use case. |
2025-04-06 18:24:34 +0200 | <ski> | dubious reasons |
2025-04-06 18:24:19 +0200 | <enikar> | why one would want to count bind? |
2025-04-06 18:22:52 +0200 | toby-bro | (~toby-bro@user/toby-bro) toby-bro |
2025-04-06 18:20:01 +0200 | <monochrom> | This is what the model "monad/>>= is programmable semicolon" gets right. In C programming, do people even imagine writing a program that counts its own lines of code? |
2025-04-06 18:15:45 +0200 | hattckory | (~hattckory@bras-base-toroon4524w-grc-30-70-27-118-207.dsl.bell.ca) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
2025-04-06 18:15:22 +0200 | <monochrom> | But I don't like to tell people about this. Counting binds is every beginners favourite anti-monad anti-pattern. |
2025-04-06 18:14:54 +0200 | <monochrom> | Counting binds does not break the associative law, it just can break the identity laws. But with pure contributing -1, (m >>= pure) has the same count as m because you have x+1-1. SImilarly for the other identity law. |
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