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| 2025-01-20 12:09:46 +0100 | <homo> | take a look at microhs, it only demands haskell2010 (and several extentions supported by hugs), but in return implements over 50 ghc-specific extentions |
| 2025-01-20 12:09:18 +0100 | <__monty__> | Well, GHC itself. Someone's been trying to get every old version of GHC building recently-ish. Presumably that'd be enough to build current GHC. |
| 2025-01-20 12:09:11 +0100 | remedan | (~remedan@ip-62-245-108-153.bb.vodafone.cz) remedan |
| 2025-01-20 12:09:08 +0100 | sroso | (~sroso@user/SrOso) (Client Quit) |
| 2025-01-20 12:08:52 +0100 | <homo> | also self-hosting language implementation is not big of a deal if it uses subset of its own features to implement itself |
| 2025-01-20 12:08:10 +0100 | sroso | (~sroso@user/SrOso) SrOso |
| 2025-01-20 12:07:46 +0100 | remedan | (~remedan@ip-62-245-108-153.bb.vodafone.cz) (Quit: Bye!) |
| 2025-01-20 12:07:37 +0100 | <homo> | kuribas ghc is not bootstrappable at all, there is no haskell implementation that has enough features to deal with ghc and its internal quirks |
| 2025-01-20 12:05:57 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-01-20 12:05:53 +0100 | <homo> | the bootstrappable seeds they use are https://github.com/oriansj/bootstrap-seeds and they are smaller than 500 bytes |
| 2025-01-20 12:04:58 +0100 | sroso | (~sroso@user/SrOso) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-01-20 12:04:48 +0100 | <homo> | __monty__ thanks, but I'm not into forth and there is already #bootstrappable channel on libera, as well as https://bootstrappable.org and https://bootstrapping.miraheze.org/ |
| 2025-01-20 12:04:43 +0100 | sroso | (~sroso@user/SrOso) SrOso |
| 2025-01-20 12:04:27 +0100 | sroso | (~sroso@user/SrOso) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-01-20 12:04:15 +0100 | sroso | (~sroso@user/SrOso) SrOso |
| 2025-01-20 12:04:03 +0100 | <__monty__> | Interpreter vs compiler doesn't really make a difference. |
| 2025-01-20 12:03:57 +0100 | sroso | (~sroso@user/SrOso) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-01-20 12:03:41 +0100 | sroso | (~sroso@user/SrOso) SrOso |
| 2025-01-20 12:03:35 +0100 | <kuribas> | idris2 is also fully implemented in itself. |
| 2025-01-20 12:03:23 +0100 | sroso | (~sroso@user/SrOso) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-01-20 12:03:23 +0100 | <kuribas> | homo: You can bootstrap via an interpreter. |
| 2025-01-20 12:02:34 +0100 | sroso | (~sroso@user/SrOso) SrOso |
| 2025-01-20 12:02:32 +0100 | <homo> | kuribas about software, to have software truly bootstrappable, you have to start from very basic features and use those to recursively implement more and more features, so ghc depending on its own extensions to implement those extensions is a horrible practice |
| 2025-01-20 11:59:35 +0100 | <kuribas> | homo: are you talking about hardware or software? |
| 2025-01-20 11:59:03 +0100 | <__monty__> | homo: You might be interested in this series of blogs, https://compilercrim.es/bootstrap/ |
| 2025-01-20 11:57:51 +0100 | <homo> | not to mention historical hardware that nobody has anymore |
| 2025-01-20 11:57:38 +0100 | <kuribas> | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuVS7MsQk4Y |
| 2025-01-20 11:57:21 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-20 11:57:14 +0100 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@2a05:5800:2ce:7100:ca4b:d6ff:fec1:99da) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-01-20 11:57:08 +0100 | <homo> | except you don't need historical crufts to have bootstrappable builds if you write code for entire bootstrap chain, it would be hell to replicate all historical software |
| 2025-01-20 11:57:00 +0100 | <kuribas> | There was a guy who build a µM scale lithography machine, but he used modern tech. |
| 2025-01-20 11:55:55 +0100 | aforemny | (~aforemny@2001:9e8:6ce7:fd00:e796:ccd3:bb44:3a2f) aforemny |
| 2025-01-20 11:55:44 +0100 | <kuribas> | homo: you want to replicate ASML with stone tools? :-O |
| 2025-01-20 11:54:07 +0100 | <homo> | it's like start with stone tools to produce modern-day computers |
| 2025-01-20 11:52:09 +0100 | <kuribas> | dminuoso: We do a lot of math at our work, but I find it's often not based on solid theoretical principles. |
| 2025-01-20 11:52:05 +0100 | <homo> | the actual bootstrap chain is longer than that, but you get the idea |
| 2025-01-20 11:50:08 +0100 | <homo> | riscv instructions |
| 2025-01-20 11:50:08 +0100 | <homo> | so, it would be a long chain: start with reviewable 200 byte binary for riscv, use that binary to bootstrap assembler, use that assembler to bootstrap c compiler and make, use that c compiler to compile x86_64 emulator and cross-compile operating system, hugs and microhs to x86_64, use microhs in virtual machine to produce combinator file to ghc, compile microhs combinator vm and combinator file for riscv, get broken ghc because ghc doesn't know how to produce |
| 2025-01-20 11:47:24 +0100 | son0p | (~ff@2800:e6:4001:6cc3:2e2c:4b4e:bc2a:6f17) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-01-20 11:47:14 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Im not too sure how portable C code is in practice *without* a huge pile of autotools around. |
| 2025-01-20 11:47:12 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2025-01-20 11:46:18 +0100 | <dminuoso> | tomsmeding: Also, why do you presume you can just copy some C code to another platform and get sensible code out of it? Portable C code is something you only ever hear about in philosphical discusssions in ##c |
| 2025-01-20 11:44:23 +0100 | <homo> | tomsmeding for your suggestion to be considered bootstrappable from nothing but source, if my laptop is riscv, I must run hugs and microhs inside virtual machine that emulates x86_64 instructions, which is a waste of time and energy |
| 2025-01-20 11:42:48 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Given that Haskeller attract mathematically inclined folks more than other languages, it seems reasonable that Haskell has a strong blockchain presence. |
| 2025-01-20 11:42:39 +0100 | <homo> | and don't tell me anything about reproducible builds propaganda |
| 2025-01-20 11:42:19 +0100 | <homo> | tomsmeding if I can't use another platform to produce combinator file, it's not bootstrappable on that platform |
| 2025-01-20 11:42:03 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-20 11:42:01 +0100 | <dminuoso> | That combination does not exist often. |
| 2025-01-20 11:41:14 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Being involved with blockchain has some cook perks, namely that you can do math things *and* get paid well for it. |
| 2025-01-20 11:40:42 +0100 | <dminuoso> | It's just a matter of perspective. From a technical perspective I help build reliable networks. |