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| 2024-12-28 03:34:50 +0100 | Sisyphean | (~Sisyphean@user/Sisyphean) Sisyphean |
| 2024-12-28 03:33:10 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-12-28 03:32:53 +0100 | Sisyphean | (~Sisyphean@user/Sisyphean) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-12-28 03:32:16 +0100 | Zenen | (~Zenen@node-1w7jr9uk45pdylasbk2itgwn9.ipv6.telus.net) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2024-12-28 03:32:09 +0100 | <homo> | s/where/whether/ |
| 2024-12-28 03:31:43 +0100 | <homo> | hurd might be the only exception, as they say hurd's translators are same thing as plan9's file servers, but I don't know anything about hurd besides it's being microkernel, and I don't know where hurd offers network-transparent namespaces |
| 2024-12-28 03:30:50 +0100 | <geekosaur> | no, I'm talking about a hacked-up port to *BSD back in the 1990s |
| 2024-12-28 03:29:11 +0100 | <homo> | it works only for tools internal to plan9port |
| 2024-12-28 03:28:58 +0100 | <homo> | do you mean a hack-up used in plan9port? |
| 2024-12-28 03:28:46 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2024-12-28 03:28:40 +0100 | <geekosaur> | opening windows, drawing graphics, etc. |
| 2024-12-28 03:28:30 +0100 | <homo> | with 9P, namespaces and files as REST API resources there is too much flexibility to do anything without ffi |
| 2024-12-28 03:28:29 +0100 | <geekosaur> | I recall everything under it being done by echoing escape sequences |
| 2024-12-28 03:28:29 +0100 | emmanuelux | (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) (Quit: au revoir) |
| 2024-12-28 03:28:15 +0100 | <geekosaur> | someone did a hack-up at one point |
| 2024-12-28 03:26:57 +0100 | <homo> | plan9's window system cannot be ported to unix because unix doesn't have network-transparent namespaces |
| 2024-12-28 03:26:25 +0100 | <geekosaur> | you're reminding me of porting plan9's window system to sco unix 🙂 |
| 2024-12-28 03:25:41 +0100 | <homo> | do you want haskell to render stuff on the screen? open file /dev/draw and write draw commands |
| 2024-12-28 03:25:00 +0100 | <homo> | I actually want to play with haskell on plan9, because there ffi doesn't make sense, all you have to do is open a file and start reading and writing to that file |
| 2024-12-28 03:23:49 +0100 | <homo> | I was about to rewrite my message and accidentally hit enter :) |
| 2024-12-28 03:23:03 +0100 | <geekosaur> | for a minor example, in Haskell's FFI all values must be forced and all constructors removed because C can't deal with them, and conversely constructors must be added to C values |
| 2024-12-28 03:22:46 +0100 | <homo> | and consistency is about working with other projects |
| 2024-12-28 03:21:58 +0100 | <geekosaur> | the problem with subset of features is you may find yourself limited to the libraries that support the same interface, unless the compiler and runtime are very clever about being able to combine the features at the RTS level |
| 2024-12-28 03:21:45 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> I still think it's mostly matter of taste |
| 2024-12-28 03:21:11 +0100 | <homo> | Sisyphean that "subset" is the reason I prefer using different languages so that code looks very clean to the eyes, every time I open up .java, .rs, .cpp in the editor I think I am getting eye cancer because of how ugly they look |
| 2024-12-28 03:20:55 +0100 | <geekosaur> | PL/I was IBM's attempt at an "everything" programming language, originally unifying FORTRAN and COBOL and later adding SNOBOL and other languages. It was a huge, bloated nightmare |
| 2024-12-28 03:20:18 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> Like singletons and libs based on them very much remind me boost.mpl and other c++ template metaprogramming libs |
| 2024-12-28 03:19:53 +0100 | <Sisyphean> | or are you implying some kind of inconsistency (which I don't get since the language must compile) |
| 2024-12-28 03:19:35 +0100 | <Sisyphean> | or are you saying I'm incapable of that and most users need to be spoonfed? |
| 2024-12-28 03:19:20 +0100 | <Sisyphean> | homo: why can't I choose the subset of features that solves my problem? |
| 2024-12-28 03:19:18 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> Caused by features that are arguably missing |
| 2024-12-28 03:19:08 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> and both have some large amount of emergent paradigms. |
| 2024-12-28 03:18:10 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> * variable at runtime, |
| 2024-12-28 03:18:00 +0100 | <homo> | I like when language's syntax is very clean, haskell's syntax makes sense only to functional programming, prolog's syntax makes sense only to logic programming |
| 2024-12-28 03:17:56 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> in C++ you'd never have trouble getting a compile time variable, unlike haskell with its dependent types that are coming tomorrow :P |
| 2024-12-28 03:17:20 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> I like template metaprogramming in C++ |
| 2024-12-28 03:17:06 +0100 | <geekosaur> | PL/I never quite dies, does it? |
| 2024-12-28 03:17:00 +0100 | <homo> | hell, try functional programming in C++ or java or javascript |
| 2024-12-28 03:16:42 +0100 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 2024-12-28 03:16:42 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2024-12-28 03:16:41 +0100 | <homo> | try functional programming in rust and compare it to haskell, which one is cleaner to the eyes? |
| 2024-12-28 03:15:38 +0100 | <homo> | Sisyphean multi-paradigm programming languages are very clumsy, because they absorb features from every other language, they have very detailed hard to read and write syntax, it is harder to make consistent API with them and hard to work with other projects |
| 2024-12-28 03:15:37 +0100 | <geekosaur> | I gave up on x86 back in the i386 days, never mind modern x86_64 |
| 2024-12-28 03:14:58 +0100 | <geekosaur> | hell, you can bang bits. doesn't mean it's a good idea |
| 2024-12-28 03:12:21 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> after that it's matter of taste how many abstraction layers over that you'd apply |
| 2024-12-28 03:11:58 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> you can accomplish something meaningful even with direct use of assembly |
| 2024-12-28 03:11:15 +0100 | <Sisyphean> | homo: Isn't that similar to logical positivism? It seems like you're suggesting that you only need a small subset of modern languages to accomplish anything meaningful. |
| 2024-12-28 03:09:37 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2024-12-28 03:09:18 +0100 | <geekosaur> | (objc seemed to me like it wanted to be smalltalk) |
| 2024-12-28 03:08:15 +0100 | <geekosaur> | most of that, though, has stuck to C-but… languages (C++ in particular but also Objective-C) |