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| 2024-04-30 23:28:46 +0200 | <mauke> | apprentice -> journeyman -> master |
| 2024-04-30 23:28:28 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | oh not even |
| 2024-04-30 23:28:23 +0200 | <dminuoso> | its government sanctioned monopolistic unions. |
| 2024-04-30 23:28:20 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | the federal state, excuse me |
| 2024-04-30 23:28:15 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | :D |
| 2024-04-30 23:28:12 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Who dares. |
| 2024-04-30 23:28:10 +0200 | <dminuoso> | tomsmeding: Not operated by the goerment. |
| 2024-04-30 23:28:03 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | a guild system, but operated by the government, I guess |
| 2024-04-30 23:28:01 +0200 | <yushyin> | (so many germans here oO) |
| 2024-04-30 23:27:59 +0200 | <dminuoso> | So for example you cant just open a bakery, no matter how damn good you are at baking, if you dont have that Meister (master - not in the university sense) degree. |
| 2024-04-30 23:27:30 +0200 | <dminuoso> | tomsmeding: Inside that - lets call it - apprenticeship path, similar to professor there is a Meister (master) advancement, and there's often lots of regulations who can even open a trade business. |
| 2024-04-30 23:27:06 +0200 | mima | (~mmh@aftr-62-216-211-165.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 2024-04-30 23:26:48 +0200 | <mauke> | Quereinsteiger :-) |
| 2024-04-30 23:26:41 +0200 | <dminuoso> | tomsmeding: And the thing is, plenty of these trades that require official certification, are often very heavily regulated. |
| 2024-04-30 23:26:01 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | :D |
| 2024-04-30 23:25:57 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Might have to look into details whether that particular path is possible. |
| 2024-04-30 23:25:47 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Which is a way to retrain. |
| 2024-04-30 23:25:42 +0200 | <dminuoso> | But you get an Umschulung, probably. |
| 2024-04-30 23:25:36 +0200 | <dminuoso> | tomsmeding: thats right. |
| 2024-04-30 23:25:34 +0200 | <dminuoso> | So all paths in your career that requires to have some piece of paper with a certification stamp on it will let you hop on. |
| 2024-04-30 23:25:32 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | but I can't become a brick layer with a CS degree? |
| 2024-04-30 23:25:10 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Well, a university degree is - for all intends and purposes - a "recognized completion of your job training" at least. |
| 2024-04-30 23:25:03 +0200 | <mauke> | get a CS bachelor, write some websites |
| 2024-04-30 23:24:57 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | or does university count as Ausbildung for a whole legion of jobs |
| 2024-04-30 23:24:44 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | and then do the exact same thing afterwards to get a job? |
| 2024-04-30 23:24:39 +0200 | <dminuoso> | The entire system has been setting up to send more and more people to university. |
| 2024-04-30 23:24:28 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Well, you go to university. |
| 2024-04-30 23:24:21 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | dminuoso: what should you do instead, if those apprenticeships are not "worth" as much as they did? |
| 2024-04-30 23:23:25 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Especially in Germany, the perception and reptutation of these recognized apprenticeships has completely gone down the drain. |
| 2024-04-30 23:23:01 +0200 | <dminuoso> | I guess we're living in a phase of academic inflation. |
| 2024-04-30 23:22:59 +0200 | madeleine-sydney | (~madeleine@c-76-155-235-153.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 2024-04-30 23:22:01 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Jade> but I still do my apprenticeship |
| 2024-04-30 23:21:44 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Jade> uni basically replaces vocational school for me |
| 2024-04-30 23:21:30 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Jade> you can also do it in uni if you have a duales studium |
| 2024-04-30 23:20:39 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Ah yeah, vocational/technical school is the term. |
| 2024-04-30 23:20:31 +0200 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) |
| 2024-04-30 23:20:01 +0200 | takuan | (~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-04-30 23:19:48 +0200 | <mauke> | apprenticeship + vocational school |
| 2024-04-30 23:18:32 +0200 | <dminuoso> | tomsmeding: Not quite, the process is split in half. You spend half your time in some business (officially certified to train for that position), and the other in school. |
| 2024-04-30 23:18:19 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | right |
| 2024-04-30 23:18:05 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Which in itself is not bad, but when the entire system is set up that it only admits people if you follow that system, its broken. |
| 2024-04-30 23:17:59 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | which basically means "study it at some school"? |
| 2024-04-30 23:17:37 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Want to lay bricks? Get an Ausbildung. |
| 2024-04-30 23:17:31 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Want to become a barber? Get an Ausbildung. |
| 2024-04-30 23:17:25 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Jade> dmniuoso: IHK :) |
| 2024-04-30 23:17:09 +0200 | <dminuoso> | A huge majority of positions that do not require a university degree will require such an anerkannte Ausbildung, and lots of career paths, retraining, etc. will require you to have one. |
| 2024-04-30 23:17:00 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Jade> ah I hadn't heard that |
| 2024-04-30 23:16:23 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Which to my knowledge is not something many other countries have. |
| 2024-04-30 23:16:02 +0200 | <dminuoso> | tomsmeding: But yeah, for context: We Germans are quite special when it comes to positions and requirements. We have this notion of anerkannte Ausbildung which is an officially recognized qualification for a particular job. |
| 2024-04-30 23:15:20 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | (caveat, depends on the font) |