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| 2024-04-30 23:18:32 +0200 | <dminuoso> | tomsmeding: Not quite, the process is split in half. You spend half your time in some business (officially certified to train for that position), and the other in school. |
| 2024-04-30 23:18:19 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | right |
| 2024-04-30 23:18:05 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Which in itself is not bad, but when the entire system is set up that it only admits people if you follow that system, its broken. |
| 2024-04-30 23:17:59 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | which basically means "study it at some school"? |
| 2024-04-30 23:17:37 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Want to lay bricks? Get an Ausbildung. |
| 2024-04-30 23:17:31 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Want to become a barber? Get an Ausbildung. |
| 2024-04-30 23:17:25 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Jade> dmniuoso: IHK :) |
| 2024-04-30 23:17:09 +0200 | <dminuoso> | A huge majority of positions that do not require a university degree will require such an anerkannte Ausbildung, and lots of career paths, retraining, etc. will require you to have one. |
| 2024-04-30 23:17:00 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Jade> ah I hadn't heard that |
| 2024-04-30 23:16:23 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Which to my knowledge is not something many other countries have. |
| 2024-04-30 23:16:02 +0200 | <dminuoso> | tomsmeding: But yeah, for context: We Germans are quite special when it comes to positions and requirements. We have this notion of anerkannte Ausbildung which is an officially recognized qualification for a particular job. |
| 2024-04-30 23:15:20 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | (caveat, depends on the font) |
| 2024-04-30 23:15:13 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | ⠅ |
| 2024-04-30 23:14:01 +0200 | <dminuoso> | So many choices |
| 2024-04-30 23:14:00 +0200 | juri_ | (~juri@implicitcad.org) |
| 2024-04-30 23:13:58 +0200 | <dminuoso> | :։܃܄࠱፡፥᛬᛬ |
| 2024-04-30 23:12:19 +0200 | whatsupdoc | (uid509081@id-509081.hampstead.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2024-04-30 23:12:13 +0200 | <lambdabot> | ':' |
| 2024-04-30 23:12:11 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | > toUpper ':' |
| 2024-04-30 23:12:01 +0200 | <dminuoso> | *in Unicode |
| 2024-04-30 23:11:31 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Actually, is there a capital colon in UTF8 somewhere? |
| 2024-04-30 23:11:02 +0200 | <dminuoso> | :-) |
| 2024-04-30 23:10:50 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | including the capital H, because German |
| 2024-04-30 23:10:42 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Habilitation. |
| 2024-04-30 23:10:38 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Jade> what's the german word for habilitation? |
| 2024-04-30 23:10:34 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | I thought so :) |
| 2024-04-30 23:10:24 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Oh I missed an i (Juniorprofessor) there. |
| 2024-04-30 23:10:08 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | I see |
| 2024-04-30 23:10:01 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Though the equivalent of an assistant professor (Junorprofessor) can be gained without habil. |
| 2024-04-30 23:09:58 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | does not exist here :p |
| 2024-04-30 23:09:46 +0200 | <dminuoso> | In Germany a habilitation is pretty much a requirement for becoming a professor |
| 2024-04-30 23:09:45 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | ostensibly we all share the same values about science or something, but we find room to differ on basically everything |
| 2024-04-30 23:09:23 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | I always find it fascinating how much this stuff differs between countries |
| 2024-04-30 23:09:16 +0200 | <dminuoso> | It's an upgrade for your PhD. :-) |
| 2024-04-30 23:08:49 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | I always forget what exactly a habilitation is, it's a German thing that we don't have |
| 2024-04-30 23:08:25 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | and that here in NL that's not as strict, but you still need to have had experience elsewhere |
| 2024-04-30 23:08:22 +0200 | <dminuoso> | tomsmeding: There's at least the notion that if you want a habilitation, that a postdoc in a different country would be a good idea. Maybe you were thinking of that? |
| 2024-04-30 23:08:07 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | I hear that portugal is really strict in only hiring assistant professors who did a phd elsewhere |
| 2024-04-30 23:07:50 +0200 | cashew | (~cashewsta@65.17.175.150) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2024-04-30 23:07:36 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | probably difference in country |
| 2024-04-30 23:07:20 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Or maybe it differs between fields? |
| 2024-04-30 23:07:12 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Might a country-specific thing, then. |
| 2024-04-30 23:06:58 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | but I dunno |
| 2024-04-30 23:06:54 +0200 | tomsmeding | thought it was somewhat frowned upon to stay in the same place for a postdoc |
| 2024-04-30 23:06:41 +0200 | <dminuoso> | But I dont have broad experience or knowledge to really say |
| 2024-04-30 23:06:32 +0200 | <dminuoso> | I think its more likely you get a postdoc position in an institute where the professor (who fought for that money) knows you |
| 2024-04-30 23:06:07 +0200 | <dminuoso> | So where you get that postdoc is really dependent on which place has those funds available. |
| 2024-04-30 23:05:50 +0200 | <dminuoso> | So at least in Germany, postdoc positions are usually paid for through some exterior means (rather than from university funds), say some grant or a company paying for it. |
| 2024-04-30 23:05:31 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | the only way you're going to amass 10 years straight at the same place is when you already have assistant professor position |
| 2024-04-30 23:05:05 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | rather that a phd takes ~4 years and a postdoc 1-2 years, and phds and postdocs are all at different universities typically |