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| 2024-04-28 23:28:52 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | Rembane: yay! |
| 2024-04-28 23:28:43 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | I see |
| 2024-04-28 23:28:23 +0200 | <monochrom> | Right, Koka doesn't expose any monad. But you start postulating monads for semantics. |
| 2024-04-28 23:28:16 +0200 | <Rembane> | tomsmeding: I just saw your new version of the Haskell playground and I like it! |
| 2024-04-28 23:27:09 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | (I should read something about this topic before I go sprouting nonsense though) |
| 2024-04-28 23:26:34 +0200 | Feuermagier | (~Feuermagi@user/feuermagier) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2024-04-28 23:25:59 +0200 | cashew | (~cashewsta@65.17.175.150) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-04-28 23:25:47 +0200 | madeleine-sydney | (~madeleine@c-76-155-235-153.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 2024-04-28 23:25:36 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | can't you define a system of effects-and-handlers, like some languages have (Koka? Never used it though), from first principles without involving a monad? |
| 2024-04-28 23:24:28 +0200 | <probie> | Can you have a useful implementation for algebraic effects which isn't a monad? I guess if you disallow effects (definition 2) from depending on each other, you can have something weaker that's still of use |
| 2024-04-28 23:24:09 +0200 | mreh | (~matthew@host86-160-168-68.range86-160.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2024-04-28 23:20:57 +0200 | tomsmeding | doesn't actually know how the mathematical theory for this goes |
| 2024-04-28 23:20:50 +0200 | cashew | (~cashewsta@65.17.175.150) |
| 2024-04-28 23:20:27 +0200 | <monochrom> | I think all papers I read (OK, only two) presume monads for algebraic effects. I don't mean to say a programming language has to expose the monads. Just that they have monads behind. |
| 2024-04-28 23:19:19 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | "affect your effects using monad transformers" |
| 2024-04-28 23:17:34 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | s/are,/are/ |
| 2024-04-28 23:17:31 +0200 | <int-e> | using monads to great effect |
| 2024-04-28 23:17:03 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | but algebraic effect systems also do, and those are not necessarily monads (though they invariably are, in haskell) |
| 2024-04-28 23:14:57 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | monads allow you to perform effects (both definitions) |
| 2024-04-28 23:14:38 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | reading input is an effect (definition 1), and `getChar` is also an effect (definition 2) |
| 2024-04-28 23:14:16 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | I would personally never call "IO" an effect, though |
| 2024-04-28 23:13:06 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | I think so? |
| 2024-04-28 23:12:48 +0200 | <monochrom> | maybe they just say monad... |
| 2024-04-28 23:12:11 +0200 | <monochrom> | OK, maybe Maybe then. |
| 2024-04-28 23:11:39 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | I have never seen a mathematician talk about reading input :) |
| 2024-04-28 23:11:37 +0200 | gorignak | (~gorignak@user/gorignak) |
| 2024-04-28 23:11:21 +0200 | <monochrom> | Ah, then what do mathematicians call the former? |
| 2024-04-28 23:11:05 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | the former if you're talking to a functional programmer |
| 2024-04-28 23:10:57 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | the latter if you're talking to a mathematician |
| 2024-04-28 23:10:56 +0200 | <monochrom> | :( |
| 2024-04-28 23:10:50 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | either, depending on who you're talking to |
| 2024-04-28 23:10:28 +0200 | <monochrom> | Oh yeah I saw a new post/thread on the discourse about "what are effects?". I want to participate, but need to check something with you guys. Does "effect" refer to eg the ability to read input (so eg in Haskell the IO type represents the effect) or to the value/action (so eg getChar)? |
| 2024-04-28 23:05:34 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <zwro> i just remembered https://libraryofbabel.info/ |
| 2024-04-28 23:04:34 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <zwro> C:\web\dark\sexyascii 1.7Kb |
| 2024-04-28 23:04:04 +0200 | <mauke> | what is the size of https://git-man-page-generator.lokaltog.net/? |
| 2024-04-28 23:03:00 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | check /r/datahoarders |
| 2024-04-28 23:02:51 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <zwro> i wonder if i could download the whole 1996 web |
| 2024-04-28 23:02:48 +0200 | <monochrom> | I think yes but I forgot where to find it. |
| 2024-04-28 23:02:27 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <zwro> *estimated |
| 2024-04-28 23:02:20 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <zwro> is there data on the estimates size of the www per year? |
| 2024-04-28 23:02:15 +0200 | cheater_ | cheater |
| 2024-04-28 23:02:05 +0200 | cheater | (~Username@user/cheater) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2024-04-28 23:01:00 +0200 | <monochrom> | (in the context of daemonizing a process on Unix) |
| 2024-04-28 23:00:55 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | mauke: oops, you can see how often I've written perl |
| 2024-04-28 23:00:26 +0200 | <monochrom> | No more terrible than for (i = 0; i < FD_MAX; i++) { close(i); } >:) |
| 2024-04-28 23:00:25 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <zwro> duplicate files |
| 2024-04-28 23:00:20 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <zwro> i wonder how much we could compress the wevlb just by removing duplicates |
| 2024-04-28 23:00:20 +0200 | cheater_ | (~Username@user/cheater) |
| 2024-04-28 23:00:11 +0200 | <mauke> | `1 while unlink "file";` please |
| 2024-04-28 22:59:51 +0200 | r5c4571lh01987 | (~rscastilh@179.221.142.8) (Remote host closed the connection) |