2026/02/09

2026-02-09 00:01:10 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2026-02-09 00:01:36 +0100 <EvanR> returning an IO action is basically free monad if you think IO is like a huge free monad
2026-02-09 00:02:19 +0100 <EvanR> if the semantic value is a command to be executed... then the command data type or the command action itself could both be considered that
2026-02-09 00:02:48 +0100krei-se(~krei-se@p200300f1cfff3e880001000000000001.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) krei-se
2026-02-09 00:03:06 +0100tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:199:803c:4cc4:404b) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2026-02-09 00:03:49 +0100 <EvanR> parse don't validate violation seems to be a different situation, where you validate something and then later run another parser on it
2026-02-09 00:04:03 +0100 <EvanR> the original data
2026-02-09 00:07:02 +0100 <chromoblob> why isn't IO a free monad actually?
2026-02-09 00:07:31 +0100 <ncf> can't pattern match on it
2026-02-09 00:07:36 +0100 <EvanR> performance, and or "we didn't think of it"
2026-02-09 00:08:13 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:cadf:d9b9:dcb4:a899) (Quit: xff0x)
2026-02-09 00:10:14 +0100 <mauke> is this that "final tagless" thing
2026-02-09 00:10:16 +0100 <chromoblob> ncf: case putStr "123" of PutStr "123" -> ...
2026-02-09 00:10:47 +0100 <ncf> oh you mean from a design perspective
2026-02-09 00:11:27 +0100 <EvanR> the IO system predates free monads being popularized by the blogosphere
2026-02-09 00:11:49 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-02-09 00:13:00 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:94ad:d9ab:f90:90c7)
2026-02-09 00:15:52 +0100twb(~twb@user/twb) twb
2026-02-09 00:16:31 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2026-02-09 00:24:24 +0100 <geekosaur> also I think it doesn't extend nicely to threads?
2026-02-09 00:26:55 +0100 <dolio> There's multiple problems with it. What about FFI?
2026-02-09 00:27:18 +0100 <geekosaur> that too, yes
2026-02-09 00:27:37 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-02-09 00:27:44 +0100 <geekosaur> although I can think of ways to make it work, especially given that FFI already doesn't really handle varargs
2026-02-09 00:29:33 +0100 <dolio> I'm sure there are ways to do it, but the question is why you would, when being a free monad is likely not valuable at all.
2026-02-09 00:29:56 +0100 <dolio> Most likely the opposite.
2026-02-09 00:30:49 +0100 <dolio> IO specifically, that is.
2026-02-09 00:32:11 +0100 <geekosaur> tbh I've always considered that approach to be more useful conceptually than implementationally
2026-02-09 00:33:34 +0100 <dolio> If you're going to write multiple interpreters for one, then it might be worth it. But you want IO to be as low overhead as possible, bascially.
2026-02-09 00:34:07 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2026-02-09 00:45:38 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-02-09 00:47:20 +0100rainbyte(~rainbyte@186.22.19.214) rainbyte
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2026-02-09 01:01:24 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2026-02-09 01:24:57 +0100emmanuelux(~em@user/emmanuelux) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2026-02-09 01:28:16 +0100emmanuelux(~em@user/emmanuelux) emmanuelux
2026-02-09 01:33:02 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-02-09 01:35:05 +0100Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@85-156-32-207.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2026-02-09 01:38:43 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2026-02-09 01:49:01 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-02-09 01:50:13 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:94ad:d9ab:f90:90c7) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2026-02-09 01:53:12 +0100 <ski> EvanR : with the former, you can do alternative analyses/semantics (perhaps sending the command to a different process, or pretty-printing it, or analyzing commands for potential trouble interaction, &c.)
2026-02-09 01:53:40 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2026-02-09 01:54:19 +0100 <ski> (cf. using a `String' as an error message, vs. a data type. with the latter, you can e.g. localize it to different languages, portray it differently for different UIs, &c.)
2026-02-09 01:54:35 +0100 <ski> @quote stark
2026-02-09 01:54:35 +0100 <lambdabot> AlanPerlis says: The string is a stark data structure and everywhere it is passed there is much duplication of process. It is a perfect vehicle for hiding information.
2026-02-09 02:01:17 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-02-09 02:03:59 +0100tremon(~tremon@83.80.159.219) (Quit: getting boxed in)
2026-02-09 02:14:03 +0100 <jreicher> String is almost not a type at all.
2026-02-09 02:24:05 +0100omidmash6(~omidmash@user/omidmash) omidmash
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2026-02-09 02:42:00 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp)
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2026-02-09 02:47:24 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-02-09 02:49:42 +0100bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) bitdex
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2026-02-09 03:03:30 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2026-02-09 03:03:48 +0100emmanuelux(~em@user/emmanuelux) emmanuelux
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2026-02-09 03:13:48 +0100emmanuelux(~em@user/emmanuelux) emmanuelux
2026-02-09 03:17:49 +0100 <ncf> huh?
2026-02-09 03:18:53 +0100twb(~twb@user/twb) (rcirc on GNU Emacs 30.1)
2026-02-09 03:19:17 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-02-09 03:26:47 +0100 <jreicher> I just mean it's often a bucket for unstructured data. Some uses I've seen feel more like the developer not bothering to figure out the type rather than really determining it's a String.
2026-02-09 03:26:56 +0100kimiamania4(~b4b260c9@user/kimiamania) (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds))
2026-02-09 03:27:01 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2026-02-09 03:27:17 +0100kimiamania4(~b4b260c9@user/kimiamania) kimiamania
2026-02-09 03:29:22 +0100 <geekosaur>
2026-02-09 03:30:02 +0100 <geekosaur> or just not thinking that, y'know, I'd prefer not to have to parse an error code out of a possibly localized string
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2026-02-09 03:34:09 +0100geekosaurahem Haskell Report…
2026-02-09 03:34:47 +0100 <geekosaur> (at least ghc has internal APIs that expose `IOError` internals to get the useful stuff)
2026-02-09 03:38:17 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-02-09 03:40:48 +0100 <geekosaur> sorry, `IOException`. https://hackage-content.haskell.org/package/base-4.22.0.0/docs/GHC-IO-Exception.html#t:IOException
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2026-02-09 03:50:45 +0100gmg(~user@user/gehmehgeh) gehmehgeh
2026-02-09 03:56:18 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2026-02-09 04:40:13 +0100Pozyomka(~pyon@user/pyon) pyon
2026-02-09 04:43:37 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2026-02-09 05:34:16 +0100davl_(~davl@207.154.228.18) (Quit: ...)
2026-02-09 05:36:45 +0100 <EvanR> "this is not a type" :: String
2026-02-09 05:39:15 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-02-09 05:43:23 +0100davl(~davl@207.154.228.18) davl
2026-02-09 05:44:10 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2026-02-09 05:46:22 +0100ski. o O ( "Ceci n'est pas une type." )
2026-02-09 05:46:53 +0100jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Quit: WeeChat 4.8.1)
2026-02-09 05:47:57 +0100 <geekosaur> (thank you 😛 )
2026-02-09 05:54:18 +0100rekahsoft(~rekahsoft@bras-base-orllon1103w-grc-20-76-67-111-168.dsl.bell.ca) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2026-02-09 08:26:28 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-02-09 08:31:44 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2026-02-09 08:32:25 +0100Enrico63(~Enrico63@host-79-27-153-69.retail.telecomitalia.it) Enrico63
2026-02-09 08:39:30 +0100comonad(~comonad@pd9e072e5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2026-02-09 08:40:23 +0100humasect(~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2026-02-09 08:40:30 +0100comonad(~comonad@p200300d02722ae00dce4ce9451b59974.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2026-02-09 08:40:52 +0100Enrico63(~Enrico63@host-79-27-153-69.retail.telecomitalia.it) (Quit: Client closed)
2026-02-09 08:42:32 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-02-09 08:43:19 +0100ft(~ft@p508db4c0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2026-02-09 08:47:35 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2026-02-09 08:47:41 +0100eason(~eason@user/eason) eason
2026-02-09 08:51:25 +0100 <eason> Hello
2026-02-09 08:51:35 +0100 <eason> Wow
2026-02-09 08:51:41 +0100 <eason> It's my first time using this
2026-02-09 08:54:40 +0100 <ski> hello eason
2026-02-09 08:55:21 +0100tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:199:803c:4cc4:404b)
2026-02-09 08:55:26 +0100 <ski> first time using IRC ?
2026-02-09 09:02:33 +0100sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) sord937
2026-02-09 09:06:41 +0100Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2026-02-09 09:14:13 +0100bliminse(~bliminse@user/bliminse) (Quit: leaving)
2026-02-09 09:16:21 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-02-09 09:17:19 +0100bliminse(~bliminse@user/bliminse) bliminse
2026-02-09 09:21:10 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2026-02-09 09:25:11 +0100KindFoxo(~KindFoxo@user/KindoFoxo) KindoFoxo
2026-02-09 09:25:52 +0100GdeVolpiano(~GdeVolpia@user/GdeVolpiano) (Quit: WeeChat 4.7.2)
2026-02-09 09:27:29 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-02-09 09:27:59 +0100GdeVolpiano(~GdeVolpia@user/GdeVolpiano) GdeVolpiano
2026-02-09 09:32:32 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2026-02-09 09:35:21 +0100trickard_trickard
2026-02-09 09:41:42 +0100tzh(~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz)
2026-02-09 09:42:23 +0100humasect(~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) humasect
2026-02-09 09:43:20 +0100eason(~eason@user/eason) (Quit: leaving)
2026-02-09 09:43:31 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-02-09 09:45:29 +0100emmanuelux_(~em@92-184-96-253.mobile.fr.orangecustomers.net) (Quit: bye)
2026-02-09 09:48:06 +0100akegalj(~akegalj@141-136-187-111.dsl.iskon.hr) akegalj
2026-02-09 09:48:13 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2026-02-09 09:49:33 +0100housemate(~housemate@202.7.248.67) (Quit: https://ineedsomeacidtocalmmedown.space/)
2026-02-09 09:53:01 +0100housemate(~housemate@202.7.248.67) housemate
2026-02-09 09:59:17 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-02-09 10:04:19 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2026-02-09 10:06:40 +0100trickard(~trickard@cpe-61-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2026-02-09 10:07:06 +0100trickard_(~trickard@cpe-61-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2026-02-09 10:12:52 +0100trickard_trickard
2026-02-09 10:14:14 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-02-09 10:16:48 +0100trickard(~trickard@cpe-61-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2026-02-09 10:17:46 +0100trickard_(~trickard@cpe-61-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2026-02-09 10:20:32 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2026-02-09 10:20:39 +0100oskarw(~user@user/oskarw) oskarw
2026-02-09 10:22:01 +0100oskarw(~user@user/oskarw) (Remote host closed the connection)
2026-02-09 10:22:44 +0100oskarw(~user@user/oskarw) oskarw
2026-02-09 10:28:29 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-02-09 10:29:46 +0100trickard_(~trickard@cpe-61-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2026-02-09 10:30:00 +0100trickard_(~trickard@cpe-61-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2026-02-09 10:33:55 +0100Inline(~User@2a02:908:1246:26e0:8c1d:56bb:e491:7d2d) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2026-02-09 10:36:10 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2026-02-09 10:47:49 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-02-09 10:52:31 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2026-02-09 10:57:18 +0100ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj
2026-02-09 11:03:38 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-02-09 11:08:23 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2026-02-09 11:09:17 +0100Googulator(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-216f-e9c4-b0ef-4e86-2425.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
2026-02-09 11:09:34 +0100Googulator(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-216f-e9c4-b0ef-4e86-2425.pool6.digikabel.hu)