2025/12/04

2025-12-04 00:03:55 +0100 <haskellbridge> <lucabtz> Leary maybe your way is better than an Additive typeclass as I was doing
2025-12-04 00:06:14 +0100oats(~oats@user/oats) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-12-04 00:06:29 +0100oats(~oats@user/oats) oats
2025-12-04 00:06:39 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-12-04 00:11:15 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-12-04 00:12:37 +0100emmanuelux(~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) emmanuelux
2025-12-04 00:14:10 +0100 <EvanR> TMA, due to buffy the vampire slayer, anything can be anythinged
2025-12-04 00:22:01 +0100Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) Sgeo
2025-12-04 00:22:15 +0100lambda_gibbon(~lambda_gi@208.83.175.39) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-12-04 00:22:25 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-12-04 00:23:30 +0100 <geekosaur> due to pretty much any native English speaker 🙂
2025-12-04 00:23:41 +0100Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Quit: Laa shay'a waqi'un moutlaq bale kouloun moumkine)
2025-12-04 00:23:51 +0100tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:a4ed:9e46:fd5d:6b4e) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2025-12-04 00:25:36 +0100Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) Lord_of_Life
2025-12-04 00:27:25 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2025-12-04 00:28:07 +0100sindu(~sindu@2.148.32.207.tmi.telenormobil.no) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-12-04 00:30:40 +0100 <EvanR> the word museum in washington DC is pretty cool
2025-12-04 00:31:02 +0100 <EvanR> all about language learning language, inventing new words, and not just english
2025-12-04 00:38:12 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-12-04 00:46:16 +0100Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus) Lycurgus
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2025-12-04 01:08:03 +0100Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: alsoknownas.renjuan.org ( juan@acm.org ))
2025-12-04 01:09:47 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-12-04 01:14:35 +0100X-Scale(~ARM@50.65.114.89.rev.vodafone.pt) X-Scale
2025-12-04 01:14:49 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-12-04 01:25:35 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-12-04 01:26:09 +0100szkl(uid110435@id-110435.uxbridge.irccloud.com) szkl
2025-12-04 01:30:15 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2025-12-04 01:44:12 +0100peterbecich(~Thunderbi@172.222.148.214) peterbecich
2025-12-04 01:46:07 +0100lambda_gibbon(~lambda_gi@2603:7080:ee00:37d8:9151:2ca2:ed0a:49fb)
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2025-12-04 01:50:08 +0100 <haskellbridge> <Zemyla> I wish GHC would turn compile-time lists of primitive types into operations on an Addr# defined at compile time.
2025-12-04 01:50:44 +0100lambda_gibbon(~lambda_gi@2603:7080:ee00:37d8:9151:2ca2:ed0a:49fb) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2025-12-04 01:51:29 +0100 <haskellbridge> <Zemyla> Like, [1, 3, 5, 8, 14] :: [Int32] would become unpackInt32List# 5# "[something]"#.
2025-12-04 01:51:45 +0100sam113101(~sam@modemcable200.189-202-24.mc.videotron.ca) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-12-04 01:53:09 +0100 <geekosaur> I can't see that being any faster, and possibly slower if it needs to box the contents individually
2025-12-04 01:54:01 +0100sam113101(~sam@modemcable200.189-202-24.mc.videotron.ca) sam113101
2025-12-04 01:57:10 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-12-04 01:58:28 +0100 <EvanR> the question becomes how unpackInt32List# primitive is implemented
2025-12-04 01:58:57 +0100 <EvanR> is it even different from normal
2025-12-04 01:59:59 +0100 <EvanR> also, a string?
2025-12-04 02:00:48 +0100jle`(~jle`@2603:8001:3b00:11:cbef:e190:cb2:e0d) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-12-04 02:02:04 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2025-12-04 02:02:50 +0100jle`(~jle`@2603:8001:3b00:11:ed74:b35d:c320:7e16) jle`
2025-12-04 02:05:10 +0100lambda_gibbon(~lambda_gi@2603:7080:ee00:37d8:9151:2ca2:ed0a:49fb)
2025-12-04 02:05:50 +0100 <haskellbridge> <Zemyla> If it's not faster, then why is it used that way for lists of Char?
2025-12-04 02:09:05 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-12-04 02:09:37 +0100lambda_gibbon(~lambda_gi@2603:7080:ee00:37d8:9151:2ca2:ed0a:49fb) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-12-04 02:11:08 +0100ryanbooker(uid4340@id-4340.hampstead.irccloud.com) ryanbooker
2025-12-04 02:11:54 +0100 <EvanR> seems like they would coerce to the same thing
2025-12-04 02:13:43 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-12-04 02:17:20 +0100firesquidwao(~a@2600:3c06::f03c:93ff:fea6:ef0e) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-12-04 02:18:13 +0100tuxpaint(~a@2600:3c06::f03c:93ff:fea6:ef0e)
2025-12-04 02:18:36 +0100omidmash9(~omidmash@user/omidmash) omidmash
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2025-12-04 02:24:52 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-12-04 02:28:54 +0100 <haskellbridge> <Zemyla> Also, it's not just about it being faster. It's also about it being a good producer and potentially having rewrite rules that straight up don't produce an intermediate list (for instance, a Vector implementation).
2025-12-04 02:29:48 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2025-12-04 02:45:32 +0100ttybitnik(~ttybitnik@user/wolper) (Quit: Fading out...)
2025-12-04 02:46:38 +0100X-Scale(~ARM@50.65.114.89.rev.vodafone.pt) X-Scale
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2025-12-04 04:43:54 +0100Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Quit: Laa shay'a waqi'un moutlaq bale kouloun moumkine)
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2025-12-04 05:49:51 +0100marlino(~marlino@96-8-193-98.block0.gvtc.com) (WeeChat 4.7.2)
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2025-12-04 06:30:44 +0100 <iqubic> Hmm... cabal repl is doing weird things for me.
2025-12-04 06:35:05 +0100 <iqubic> So, I have a bunch of files in my src directory for doing Advent of Code. The src directory looks like this: https://dpaste.alwaysdata.org/ATNKbB9Q
2025-12-04 06:35:51 +0100 <iqubic> All the Day* files have their own `part1 :: String -> Int` and `part2 :: String -> Int` functions.
2025-12-04 06:36:26 +0100 <iqubic> When I start a cabal repl, I can do `:m *Day04` and that gives me access to the `part1` and `part2` functions from `Day04.hs`
2025-12-04 06:37:16 +0100 <iqubic> But when run `:r` to reload it, the repl decides to pull in the part1 and part2 functions from Day01, even though it says it's compiling Day04 for me.
2025-12-04 06:37:21 +0100 <iqubic> What the hell?!?!?
2025-12-04 06:41:03 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-12-04 06:41:19 +0100 <iqubic> Here's my cabal repl output: https://dpaste.alwaysdata.org/3r1Wpc4o
2025-12-04 06:43:01 +0100michalz(~michalz@185.246.207.203)
2025-12-04 06:45:35 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-12-04 06:47:38 +0100 <koala_man> wild
2025-12-04 06:55:14 +0100robobub(uid248673@id-248673.uxbridge.irccloud.com) robobub
2025-12-04 06:56:15 +0100hdggxin(~hdggxin@223.181.46.243) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2025-12-04 06:56:51 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-12-04 06:57:32 +0100 <iqubic> Why is cabal repl / GHCi doing weird things here?
2025-12-04 06:59:35 +0100humasect(~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net)
2025-12-04 07:00:19 +0100Square(~Square@user/square) Square
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2025-12-04 07:03:00 +0100takuan(~takuan@d8D86B9E9.access.telenet.be)
2025-12-04 07:04:13 +0100humasect(~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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2025-12-04 07:10:32 +0100marinelli(~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/marinelli) (Quit: marinelli)
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2025-12-04 07:33:05 +0100Enrico63(~Enrico63@host-212-171-79-170.pool212171.interbusiness.it) Enrico63
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2025-12-04 07:39:41 +0100 <jreicher> sprout: are there other languages like Egel? (untyped, pure functional)
2025-12-04 07:40:15 +0100karenw(~karenw@user/karenw) karenw
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2025-12-04 08:25:48 +0100CiaoSen(~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) CiaoSen
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2025-12-04 08:40:16 +0100divlamir(~divlamir@user/divlamir) divlamir
2025-12-04 08:41:20 +0100 <iqubic> Anyone know why cabal repl is being weird for me?
2025-12-04 08:41:42 +0100lucabtz(~lucabtz@user/lucabtz) lucabtz
2025-12-04 08:44:25 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-12-04 08:50:28 +0100tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:a4ed:9e46:fd5d:6b4e)
2025-12-04 08:52:00 +0100 <arahael> iqubic: Nobody is going to know that without any context.
2025-12-04 08:52:21 +0100 <iqubic> What kind of context will I need to provide?
2025-12-04 08:52:32 +0100 <iqubic> I'm using GHC 9.12.3
2025-12-04 08:53:23 +0100 <iqubic> I'm also running NixOS, but I'm not sure that's the root cause here.
2025-12-04 08:53:33 +0100 <arahael> Generally a good template is "I have this... I expected to see this... But got this..."
2025-12-04 08:54:55 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-12-04 09:00:01 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-12-04 09:01:36 +0100 <iqubic> So, I have a project set up like this https://gist.github.com/IQubic/a9b2d200d368124993c30b4611151749. I have run cabal repl to start up a repl for my project. I can run ":m *Day04" to load Day04. When I make changes to Day04.hs, I then run :r to reload things. When I run the function part2, the repl is now calling the part2 function from Day01, instead of Day04. I'd expect it to be running the functions from Day04.hs, because I have
2025-12-04 09:01:36 +0100 <iqubic> actually ever loaded Day01 in this repl.
2025-12-04 09:02:00 +0100 <iqubic> https://gist.github.com/IQubic/ae3f1e0c3062ffd0a65035771dffdc90
2025-12-04 09:02:50 +0100mehbark(~mehbark@user/mehbark) (Quit: insert leave message here)
2025-12-04 09:03:49 +0100mehbark(~mehbark@joey.luug.ece.vt.edu)
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2025-12-04 09:04:01 +0100mehbark(~mehbark@user/mehbark) mehbark
2025-12-04 09:06:33 +0100 <iqubic> Is the issue using a * in ":m *Day04"?
2025-12-04 09:09:27 +0100 <iqubic> If I use ":m Day04", without the *, then run ":r", it seems to load both Day01 and Day04 for some reason.
2025-12-04 09:10:36 +0100 <iqubic> https://dpaste.alwaysdata.org/y9NWyXCq
2025-12-04 09:10:42 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-12-04 09:10:48 +0100 <iqubic> Why is Day01 added automatically??!!?
2025-12-04 09:17:25 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2025-12-04 09:20:34 +0100jreicher(~user@user/jreicher) jreicher
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2025-12-04 09:27:48 +0100annamalai(~annamalai@157.32.222.111) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-12-04 09:28:16 +0100 <sprout> jreicher: yes, there are other untyped functional languages. many even, it's a favorite for plt people to implement
2025-12-04 09:28:38 +0100 <sprout> jreicher: most notorious is lisp of course
2025-12-04 09:28:56 +0100 <sprout> well, you know that one I guess
2025-12-04 09:29:22 +0100 <sprout> wasn't there some package manager language lazy, untyped, functional?
2025-12-04 09:30:23 +0100 <sprout> nix
2025-12-04 09:30:45 +0100edmedmerry
2025-12-04 09:31:07 +0100 <sprout> https://nix.dev/tutorials/nix-language
2025-12-04 09:31:17 +0100 <haskellbridge> <iqubic (she/her)> Yeah. Nix
2025-12-04 09:31:18 +0100 <haskellbridge> <iqubic (she/her)> Nix is good.
2025-12-04 09:31:37 +0100marinelli(~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/marinelli) (Quit: marinelli)
2025-12-04 09:33:08 +0100lambda_gibbon(~lambda_gi@2603:7080:ee00:37d8:313d:1898:c3f8:5287)
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2025-12-04 09:57:55 +0100orizuru(~orizuru@user/orizuru) orizuru
2025-12-04 09:59:32 +0100iqubic(~sophia@2601:602:9203:1660:d33f:96d:145c:6b4b) iqubic
2025-12-04 10:03:15 +0100 <jreicher> sprout: I don't consider Lisp to be a functional language. I get in trouble in Lisp channels for saying that but I expect there might be a bit more sympathy for the view here.
2025-12-04 10:06:26 +0100merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn
2025-12-04 10:07:02 +0100chiselfuse(~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-12-04 10:07:23 +0100 <jackdk> I'm curious if you consider ocaml a functional language then, because I can see arguments in both directions. It's definitely from a functional tradition but admits mutable references like many lisps do. But I'd definitely consider it "culturally" functional in that AFAIK people write pure interfaces around mutable bits, etc
2025-12-04 10:07:44 +0100lambda_gibbon(~lambda_gi@2603:7080:ee00:37d8:313d:1898:c3f8:5287)
2025-12-04 10:08:08 +0100emmanuelux(~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-12-04 10:09:49 +0100 <jreicher> Lisp doesn't admit mutable references. In Lisp EVERYTHING is mutable because there's no code; only data. And all the data is mutable. And then you can direct the language to interpret one of data structures as code. In a functional language things are primarily code, and if data is admitted then it just means it's not pure.
2025-12-04 10:10:47 +0100 <jreicher> The only reason Lisp feels functional is an almost-coincidental side effect of "everything is data" is that functions become first class.
2025-12-04 10:13:47 +0100kuribas(~user@2a02:1808:51:4205:f3c0:d777:6713:bee2) (ERC 5.5.0.29.1 (IRC client for GNU Emacs 29.3))
2025-12-04 10:15:19 +0100lambda_gibbon(~lambda_gi@2603:7080:ee00:37d8:313d:1898:c3f8:5287) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-12-04 10:16:04 +0100 <merijn> Also, Haskell admits mutable references too :p
2025-12-04 10:16:25 +0100 <merijn> They're just more principled (or making your jump through more hoops to use the unprincipled ones)
2025-12-04 10:16:59 +0100 <merijn> jackdk: Ocaml is clearly functional, just not pure
2025-12-04 10:23:28 +0100tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:a4ed:9e46:fd5d:6b4e) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2025-12-04 10:27:06 +0100 <jreicher> sprout: In case it's worth saying, I meant practical untyped functional languages; not toy languages.
2025-12-04 10:28:24 +0100 <sprout> well, nix then
2025-12-04 10:29:02 +0100 <jreicher> :) Ta. That one I already knew, but I had never heard of Egel and it's the first practical-ish one I've seen in a while.
2025-12-04 10:29:05 +0100 <sprout> although I don't know what you consider *practical*
2025-12-04 10:29:19 +0100 <sprout> mwa, pretty shitty interpreter
2025-12-04 10:29:25 +0100 <sprout> slow and buggy
2025-12-04 10:29:28 +0100arandombit(~arandombi@user/arandombit) arandombit
2025-12-04 10:29:37 +0100 <sprout> well, maybe not that buggy. but slow
2025-12-04 10:29:38 +0100marinelli(~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/marinelli) marinelli
2025-12-04 10:29:42 +0100 <sprout> so not practical
2025-12-04 10:29:45 +0100 <sprout> cannot recommend
2025-12-04 10:29:55 +0100 <jreicher> As a rough and ready definition, "practical" is "can at least do IO with files, but should approach an FFI"
2025-12-04 10:30:33 +0100 <jreicher> I consider anything limited to stdin and sdtout to be toy. Doesn't mean it's not theoretically significant though, of course.
2025-12-04 10:31:03 +0100 <sprout> well, it has most IO
2025-12-04 10:31:15 +0100 <jreicher> Yeah, that's what stood out to me.
2025-12-04 10:31:37 +0100 <sprout> but it's an esolang in that it's an experiment with an operational model
2025-12-04 10:31:40 +0100 <sprout> > Egel is primarily about exploiting a trivialized operational model, a program (state) can be represented as a directed acyclic graph solely and program evaluation corresponds to trampolining the combinator at the root of that graph.
2025-12-04 10:31:44 +0100 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:67: error: parse error on input `,'
2025-12-04 10:32:15 +0100 <sprout> succesful experiment, mostly a failed too slow language though
2025-12-04 10:32:26 +0100 <sprout> it's interesting to people doing plt
2025-12-04 10:32:57 +0100 <sprout> like 'hey, here's a different manner of implementing a term rewriter'
2025-12-04 10:32:58 +0100 <jreicher> I would argue Haskell is not really so different. All the heap objects form that graph, and any differences can probably be characterised as very clever optimisations.
2025-12-04 10:33:21 +0100 <sprout> haskell must have a stack of redexes though
2025-12-04 10:33:35 +0100 <jreicher> It does. But like I said, that's an optimisation IMO.
2025-12-04 10:34:57 +0100 <sprout> sure. I cannot even state it's a very bright idea. just something silly I wanted to show works
2025-12-04 10:35:04 +0100dhil(~dhil@5.151.29.139) dhil
2025-12-04 10:35:15 +0100 <sprout> and then a decade later I am still stuck with an interpreter :/
2025-12-04 10:35:19 +0100 <sprout> ah well
2025-12-04 10:36:34 +0100 <sprout> it's interesting since it simplifies normal rather elaborate machinery for evaluation like a SECD or CAM machine
2025-12-04 10:37:02 +0100 <sprout> theoretically interesting
2025-12-04 10:37:13 +0100 <sprout> practically, not so much
2025-12-04 10:37:19 +0100 <sprout> well, that's what I feel
2025-12-04 10:41:54 +0100acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e71719824d363649e1e7df87.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk
2025-12-04 10:42:01 +0100merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-12-04 10:42:07 +0100Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Quit: Laa shay'a waqi'un moutlaq bale kouloun moumkine)
2025-12-04 10:42:35 +0100 <jreicher> Is Egel yours?
2025-12-04 10:42:39 +0100 <sprout> yah
2025-12-04 10:43:02 +0100 <jreicher> Like I said, it stood out. I don't think many other people have tried to do something like it. It's not toy; you've made it practical.
2025-12-04 10:43:15 +0100 <sprout> oh. thanks!
2025-12-04 10:43:37 +0100 <jreicher> That's why I was asking if you knew any others. It's rare.
2025-12-04 10:43:37 +0100img(~img@user/img) (Quit: ZNC 1.10.1 - https://znc.in)
2025-12-04 10:43:43 +0100 <jreicher> (I think)
2025-12-04 10:44:04 +0100 <sprout> still. cannot recommend..
2025-12-04 10:44:11 +0100 <sprout> it's an esolang at heart
2025-12-04 10:44:26 +0100 <sprout> maybe I'll find use for it somewhere sometime
2025-12-04 10:44:39 +0100lambda_gibbon(~lambda_gi@2603:7080:ee00:37d8:313d:1898:c3f8:5287)
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