2025/08/11

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2025-08-11 01:24:26 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-57-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-08-11 01:30:12 +0200 <geekosaur> I assume that means they're done
2025-08-11 01:30:16 +0200geekosaur-o geekosaur
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2025-08-11 03:01:27 +0200lexi-lambda(sid92601@id-92601.hampstead.irccloud.com) lexi-lambda
2025-08-11 03:04:15 +0200 <albet70> hi
2025-08-11 03:05:19 +0200 <albet70> addCPS a b k1; this k1's continuation k2 is not passing by parameter? k2 is written in k1's body?
2025-08-11 03:07:32 +0200euouae(~euouae@user/euouae) euouae
2025-08-11 03:07:50 +0200 <euouae> When I want to document the lines where I'm being too clever, how should I place the comments? With -- ?
2025-08-11 03:09:50 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-08-11 03:15:09 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2025-08-11 03:19:36 +0200trickard(~trickard@cpe-57-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2025-08-11 03:25:14 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-08-11 03:28:21 +0200 <geekosaur> euouae, I usually put it before with --
2025-08-11 03:29:58 +0200Square2(~Square@user/square) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2025-08-11 03:32:04 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-08-11 03:40:46 +0200 <euouae> sounds good, thank you
2025-08-11 03:43:15 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-08-11 04:29:29 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-08-11 04:45:07 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-08-11 04:46:17 +0200 <ski> albet70 : what's the code re that ?
2025-08-11 04:46:48 +0200 <ski> before, or at the end of the line (if short), euouae
2025-08-11 04:46:52 +0200ouilemur(~jgmerritt@user/ouilemur) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-08-11 04:47:21 +0200 <ski> you should also put longer implementation-related comments, at the top of a definition, perhaps between the signature and the defining clauses
2025-08-11 04:49:34 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2025-08-11 04:49:37 +0200ouilemur(~jgmerritt@user/ouilemur) ouilemur
2025-08-11 04:50:29 +0200davidlbowman(~dlb@user/davidlbowman) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-08-11 04:51:18 +0200driib318(~driib@vmi931078.contaboserver.net) driib
2025-08-11 04:55:52 +0200 <euouae> ski: Oh is that how you do it? between signature and defining clausE?
2025-08-11 04:56:04 +0200 <euouae> Because that's what I was asking about in particular, a longer implementation-related comment
2025-08-11 04:59:47 +0200astraamish
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2025-08-11 05:06:09 +0200trickard_trickard
2025-08-11 05:06:20 +0200ystael(~ystael@user/ystael) ystael
2025-08-11 05:09:23 +0200 <albet70> ski , no code, I just wonder how the continuation's continuation would be
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2025-08-11 05:14:42 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod
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2025-08-11 05:27:51 +0200 <monochrom> Are you just asking to see this? addCPS a b k1 = k1 (a + b)
2025-08-11 05:34:02 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-08-11 06:00:50 +0200jespada(~jespada@2800:a4:2219:9800:a55e:3e41:816a:f6ed) jespada
2025-08-11 06:03:50 +0200 <ski> albet70 : typically, there would be none. you can iterate the CPS transform, though. i know of two (?) papers which talks about that, if you're curious
2025-08-11 06:04:21 +0200 <ski> btw, with two levels of continuations, this is closely related to backtracking, in logic programming
2025-08-11 06:04:42 +0200 <ski> it's also related to the Church encoding of lists, and of natural numbers
2025-08-11 06:05:08 +0200 <ski> @unmtl ContT o m a
2025-08-11 06:05:08 +0200 <lambdabot> (a -> m o) -> m o
2025-08-11 06:05:19 +0200 <ski> @unmtl ContT o (ContT p m) a
2025-08-11 06:05:19 +0200 <lambdabot> (a -> (o -> m p) -> m p) -> (o -> m p) -> m p
2025-08-11 06:05:33 +0200 <ski> the second there is two levels of continuations
2025-08-11 06:05:46 +0200phma(phma@2001:5b0:211f:4d98:87b1:5b61:8c35:99f8)
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2025-08-11 06:06:37 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-08-11 06:06:53 +0200 <ski> if you take
2025-08-11 06:06:57 +0200 <ski> @unmtl ContT () (ContT p (ContT q m)) a
2025-08-11 06:06:57 +0200 <lambdabot> (a -> (() -> (p -> m q) -> m q) -> (p -> m q) -> m q) -> (() -> (p -> m q) -> m q) -> (p -> m q) -> m q
2025-08-11 06:07:03 +0200 <ski> er, no
2025-08-11 06:07:10 +0200 <ski> @unmtl ContT () (ContT p m) a
2025-08-11 06:07:10 +0200 <lambdabot> (a -> (() -> m p) -> m p) -> (() -> m p) -> m p
2025-08-11 06:07:40 +0200phma(phma@2001:5b0:211f:4d98:87b1:5b61:8c35:99f8) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-08-11 06:07:57 +0200 <ski> this one. the `m p's are, if you investigae the corresponding CPS transform, passed around like a state (as in `StateT (m p)')
2025-08-11 06:08:42 +0200 <ski> @unmtl ContT () (State (m p)) a
2025-08-11 06:08:42 +0200 <lambdabot> (a -> m p -> ((), m p)) -> m p -> ((), m p)
2025-08-11 06:09:20 +0200phma(~phma@host-67-44-208-4.hnremote.net)
2025-08-11 06:09:47 +0200 <ski> this observation can be used as an implementation strategy for composable/delimited/sub- continuations, by using a mutable state to keep track of the inner-level continuation
2025-08-11 06:10:16 +0200 <ski> (instead of threading around state versions)
2025-08-11 06:11:27 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2025-08-11 06:50:24 +0200JamesMowery1773(~JamesMowe@ip68-228-212-232.ph.ph.cox.net) (Quit: Goodbye)
2025-08-11 06:51:51 +0200JamesMowery17736(~JamesMowe@ip68-228-212-232.ph.ph.cox.net) JamesMowery
2025-08-11 06:53:07 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-08-11 06:59:42 +0200 <albet70> monochrom , yes, what k's continuation would be like
2025-08-11 07:00:07 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-08-11 07:02:50 +0200polykernel_(~polykerne@user/polykernel) polykernel
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2025-08-11 07:17:35 +0200Axman6(~Axman6@user/axman6) Axman6
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2025-08-11 07:26:53 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: irc.renjuan.org (juan@acm.org))
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2025-08-11 07:35:40 +0200Unicorn_Princess(~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) Unicorn_Princess
2025-08-11 07:37:51 +0200polykernel(~polykerne@user/polykernel) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-08-11 07:38:26 +0200polykernel(~polykerne@user/polykernel) polykernel
2025-08-11 07:41:38 +0200 <ski> [| \(a,b) -> a + b |]_v = \((a,b),c) -> c (a + b)
2025-08-11 07:41:59 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-08-11 07:41:59 +0200 <ski> [| \((a,b),c) -> c (a + b) |]_v = \(((a,b),c),k) -> c (a + b,k)
2025-08-11 07:42:05 +0200 <ski> albet70 ^
2025-08-11 07:42:16 +0200 <ski> there you go
2025-08-11 07:42:19 +0200 <ski> @type \((a,b),c) -> c (a + b)
2025-08-11 07:42:20 +0200 <lambdabot> Num t1 => ((t1, t1), t1 -> t2) -> t2
2025-08-11 07:42:29 +0200 <ski> @type \(((a,b),c),k) -> c (a + b,k)
2025-08-11 07:42:30 +0200 <lambdabot> Num a => (((a, a), (a, b) -> t), b) -> t
2025-08-11 07:43:04 +0200 <ski> or, renaming a bit, using `Integer', and currying, we get
2025-08-11 07:43:20 +0200 <ski> Integer -> Integer -> (Integer -> o) -> o
2025-08-11 07:45:43 +0200 <ski> Integer -> Integer -> (Integer -> po -> p) -> po -> p
2025-08-11 07:46:06 +0200 <ski> setting `po = p -> o', for the latter one, we get
2025-08-11 07:46:22 +0200 <ski> Integer -> Integer -> (Integer -> (p -> o) -> p) -> (p -> o) -> p
2025-08-11 07:46:31 +0200 <ski> and these two then becomes
2025-08-11 07:46:36 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-08-11 07:46:45 +0200 <ski> Integer -> Integer -> Cont o Integer
2025-08-11 07:47:23 +0200 <ski> er, no, we should use `po = o -> p', actually ..
2025-08-11 07:47:35 +0200 <ski> Integer -> Integer -> (Integer -> (o -> p) -> p) -> (o -> p) -> p
2025-08-11 07:47:48 +0200 <ski> so
2025-08-11 07:48:01 +0200 <ski> Integer -> Integer -> (Integer -> Cont p o) -> Cont p o
2025-08-11 07:48:20 +0200 <ski> Integer -> Integer -> ContT o (Cont p) Integer
2025-08-11 07:49:26 +0200 <ski> the former, `Integer -> Integer -> Cont o Integer', could be adapted, by replacing `o' by `m o', getting `Integer -> Integer -> ContT o m Integer'
2025-08-11 07:49:48 +0200 <ski> similarly, the latter can be adapted to `Integer -> Integer -> ContT o (ContT p m) Integer'
2025-08-11 07:50:30 +0200 <ski> albet70 : that helps, any ?
2025-08-11 07:50:33 +0200polykernel_(~polykerne@user/polykernel) polykernel
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2025-08-11 07:52:19 +0200ynzoqn(~ynzoqn@user/ynzoqn) ()
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2025-08-11 08:23:20 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-08-11 08:24:29 +0200__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) toonn
2025-08-11 08:28:10 +0200 <dibblego> It is my understanding of Applicative laws, that left and right should always be equal, what am I missing? https://play.haskell.org/saved/wLdeG3EL
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2025-08-11 08:32:46 +0200 <ski> albet70 : exercise, write `selectC :: (Foldable t,Monad m) => t a -> ContT () m a' (using `for_'), `selectCC :: Foldable t => t a -> ContT () (ContT o m) a' (using `foldr'), and then the corresponding "run" functions `collectCS :: ContT () (State [a]) a -> [a]' and `collectCCL :: ContT () (ContT a []) a -> [a]'. compute `collectCS (selectC [2,3,5,7])' and `collectCCL (selectCC [2,3,5,7])'
2025-08-11 08:38:19 +0200doyougnu(~doyougnu@38.175.72.111) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2025-08-11 08:38:42 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-08-11 08:39:45 +0200 <c_wraith> dibblego: are you basing that on the composition law?
2025-08-11 08:40:03 +0200Unicorn_Princess(~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-08-11 08:40:15 +0200Ekho(~Ekho@user/ekho) Ekho
2025-08-11 08:40:19 +0200 <c_wraith> because the parens in right are different from the composition law
2025-08-11 08:40:35 +0200doyougnu(~doyougnu@38.175.72.111) doyougnu
2025-08-11 08:40:46 +0200 <dibblego> c_wraith: yes, also, listed here more explicitly: https://hackage-content.haskell.org/package/semigroupoids-6.0.1/docs/Data-Functor-Apply.html#t:Apply
2025-08-11 08:41:02 +0200 <c_wraith> You need right = (. f) <$> x <*> y
2025-08-11 08:41:13 +0200 <c_wraith> adding parens changes the association
2025-08-11 08:41:15 +0200 <dibblego> darnit, thank you
2025-08-11 08:42:19 +0200 <ski> ($ 99) <$> (x <*> (f <$> y)) = ($ 99) <$> (Just (*) <*> ((+ 1) <$> Just 7)) = ($ 99) <$> (Just ((7 + 1) *))) = Just ((7 + 1) * 99)
2025-08-11 08:42:22 +0200 <ski> ($ 99) <$> ((. f) <$> (x <*> y)) = ($ 99) <$> ((. (+ 1)) <$> (Just (*) <*> Just 7)) = ($ 99) <$> Just ((7 *) . (+ 1)) = Just (7 * (99 + 1))
2025-08-11 08:42:52 +0200 <dibblego> yeah, I just skipped over that, thanks
2025-08-11 08:43:48 +0200 <ski> mm, that looks more sensible, with that association
2025-08-11 08:44:38 +0200 <c_wraith> I didn't bother actually working out the way each calculates. I just looked at the law, noticed that the association looked off, and tested changing it. :)
2025-08-11 08:45:06 +0200skididn't recognize where it was supposed to be taken from
2025-08-11 08:45:42 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-08-11 08:49:53 +0200 <c_wraith> I looked at the laws listed in https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.21.0.0/docs/Control-Applicative.html
2025-08-11 08:50:00 +0200weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-08-11 08:50:09 +0200 <c_wraith> I never actually remember what they are - just that they're really squirrely compared to the monad laws
2025-08-11 08:50:33 +0200lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:55ab:e185:7f81:54a4)
2025-08-11 08:50:45 +0200LBRB(~user@user/LBRB) LBRB
2025-08-11 08:52:53 +0200 <ski> pure (.) <*> u <*> v <*> w = u <*> (v <*> w) -- Composition
2025-08-11 08:53:28 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-08-11 08:53:47 +0200 <ski> not seeing how `x <*> (f <$> y) = (. f) <$> x <*> y)' follows, really
2025-08-11 08:53:53 +0200 <ski> hm. i guess
2025-08-11 08:54:06 +0200 <ski> u <*> pure y = pure ($ y) <*> u -- Interchange
2025-08-11 08:54:09 +0200 <ski> may be involved
2025-08-11 08:54:28 +0200 <c_wraith> nah, the only thing involved is pure f <*> x === f <$> x
2025-08-11 08:54:52 +0200 <c_wraith> that's the only rewrite away from it being exactly the composition law
2025-08-11 08:55:01 +0200AlexZenon(~alzenon@178.34.150.240) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2025-08-11 08:55:19 +0200AlexNoo(~AlexNoo@178.34.150.240) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-08-11 08:55:33 +0200 <c_wraith> Oh, no. You're right, you need to factor the f in.
2025-08-11 08:55:49 +0200 <ski> the order is swapped
2025-08-11 08:57:17 +0200raym(~ray@user/raym) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2025-08-11 08:58:27 +0200 <c_wraith> ok, yeah. that gets interchange involved
2025-08-11 08:59:28 +0200acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7171949546b19bac1316c06.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk
2025-08-11 09:00:02 +0200caconym747(~caconym@user/caconym) (Quit: bye)
2025-08-11 09:00:46 +0200caconym747(~caconym@user/caconym) caconym
2025-08-11 09:04:02 +0200AlexZenon(~alzenon@178.34.150.240)
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2025-08-11 09:04:20 +0200CiaoSen(~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) CiaoSen
2025-08-11 09:04:59 +0200harveypwca(~harveypwc@2601:246:d080:f6e0:27d6:8cc7:eca9:c46c) HarveyPwca
2025-08-11 09:05:10 +0200arahael(~arahael@user/arahael) arahael
2025-08-11 09:05:31 +0200 <Leary> I hate the `Applicative` laws in the haddocks. They should just be associativity of `liftA2 (.)` with identity `pure id`.
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2025-08-11 09:08:41 +0200laman(laman@rego.ai) laman
2025-08-11 09:09:10 +0200 <ski> @type GHC.Base.liftA2
2025-08-11 09:09:11 +0200 <lambdabot> Applicative f => (a -> b -> c) -> f a -> f b -> f c
2025-08-11 09:09:16 +0200 <ski> (that's a method)
2025-08-11 09:17:26 +0200sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) sord937
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2025-08-11 10:00:06 +0200 <jackdk> Now that it's a method, could they be revised?
2025-08-11 10:00:39 +0200tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:99b3:9a99:29d2:5644)
2025-08-11 10:05:07 +0200ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj
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2025-08-11 10:26:10 +0200merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn
2025-08-11 10:27:01 +0200lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:55ab:e185:7f81:54a4) lortabac
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2025-08-11 11:18:00 +0200 <ski> not sure it's officially a method, rather than just for efficiency
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2025-08-11 13:22:19 +0200CiaoSen(~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) CiaoSen
2025-08-11 13:23:04 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2025-08-11 13:33:50 +0200trickard_trickard
2025-08-11 13:35:20 +0200 <Square> Is there any direct haddock support for documenting type arguments of class?
2025-08-11 13:35:53 +0200 <Square> ...other than include mention of the arguments in the class documentation body that is.
2025-08-11 13:43:05 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) Lord_of_Life
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2025-08-11 13:48:56 +0200tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:99b3:9a99:29d2:5644)
2025-08-11 13:49:43 +0200athan(~athan@syn-047-132-161-157.res.spectrum.com) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2025-08-11 14:02:47 +0200athan(~athan@syn-047-132-161-157.res.spectrum.com) athan
2025-08-11 14:18:59 +0200ynzoqn(~ynzoqn@user/ynzoqn) ynzoqn
2025-08-11 14:21:42 +0200 <[exa]> Square: probably not, does it even support "normal" function arguments?
2025-08-11 14:22:25 +0200 <Square> [exa], Actually looks as if there is support for function arguments (but can't remember I've seen it used).
2025-08-11 14:23:20 +0200 <[exa]> ha yes you can annotate the type
2025-08-11 14:23:25 +0200 <[exa]> https://haskell-haddock.readthedocs.io/latest/markup.html#function-arguments
2025-08-11 14:23:58 +0200 <Square> Sadly I don't find anything for type arguments of classes.
2025-08-11 14:24:00 +0200 <[exa]> hm...can we declare and annotate the kind of the typeclass constraunt? :D
2025-08-11 14:26:57 +0200 <[exa]> probably not
2025-08-11 14:27:01 +0200glguy_glguy
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