2025/08/03

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2025-08-03 00:30:12 +0200Spawns_Carpeting(~mobile@user/spawns-carpeting/x-6969421) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1+deb12u1 - https://znc.in)
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2025-08-03 00:35:31 +0200Igloo(~ian@81.2.99.210) Igfoo
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2025-08-03 00:58:03 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2025-08-03 00:59:28 +0200Igloo(~ian@81.2.99.210) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-08-03 01:01:24 +0200Igloo(~ian@45.130.105.79)
2025-08-03 01:01:25 +0200caubert(~caubert@user/caubert) caubert
2025-08-03 01:03:16 +0200JimmyMifune(~JimmyMifu@h77-53-77-213.cust.bredband2.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2025-08-03 01:10:46 +0200Igloo(~ian@81.2.99.210) Igfoo
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2025-08-03 01:13:46 +0200phma(phma@2001:5b0:211b:c1b8:b6d6:ed2d:f8de:7cd2) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2025-08-03 01:23:40 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-08-03 01:55:27 +0200sp1ff`(~user@185.219.141.187)
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2025-08-03 01:57:21 +0200 <Unicorn_Princess> i'm writing a small & simple computer algebra system (no integration/derivatives/fancy stuff, just sum, product, and power). i'm currently representing algebraic expressions like so: https://play.haskell.org/saved/MqSuqrtR
2025-08-03 01:58:24 +0200 <Unicorn_Princess> what has me conflicted is the separation between Atom and Expr - do you think it might be a good idea to try to merge them into a single Expr type, adding Atom's values to Expr?
2025-08-03 01:58:50 +0200 <Unicorn_Princess> basically data Expr = LitInt Int | FreeReal String | Prod [Expr] | Sum [Expr] ..
2025-08-03 02:00:08 +0200 <Unicorn_Princess> the complications from the separation currently aren't too bad, really, but it feels kinda dirty
2025-08-03 02:00:31 +0200 <glguy> The reason to have two separate types would be if you were going to write functions that only generated things in Atom on could only handle things in Atom
2025-08-03 02:00:37 +0200 <glguy> or maybe you want an eval :: Expr -> Atom
2025-08-03 02:00:38 +0200sp1ff``(~user@c-24-21-190-184.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
2025-08-03 02:00:54 +0200 <glguy> if you don't have a reason to distinguish Expr and Atom then you can merge them into one type
2025-08-03 02:01:06 +0200 <Unicorn_Princess> hrm
2025-08-03 02:02:25 +0200 <Unicorn_Princess> i could also go even further - have a separate Operation ADT, like data NAry = Sum | Prod, data Binary = Pow, and then data Exrp = BinExp Binary Expr Expr | NExp NAry [Expr]..
2025-08-03 02:02:29 +0200sp1ff`(~user@185.219.141.187) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-08-03 02:04:10 +0200 <Unicorn_Princess> i just don't know which will hurt most/least down the line. all of the approaches would work tho, hence having trouble choosing
2025-08-03 02:04:43 +0200 <Unicorn_Princess> i think for now i'll try putting everything into a single Expr type, since it's the most naive/simple approach, and see how that works out ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2025-08-03 02:04:45 +0200jackdk(uid373013@cssa/life/jackdk) jackdk
2025-08-03 02:05:24 +0200 <glguy> just stick to the simplest thing first and then make it more complicated when you realize that you need to be
2025-08-03 02:06:50 +0200 <Unicorn_Princess> yeah that's my thinking
2025-08-03 02:07:21 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-08-03 02:30:03 +0200caubert(~caubert@user/caubert) caubert
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2025-08-03 02:56:24 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod
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2025-08-03 06:10:07 +0200olivial(~benjaminl@user/benjaminl) benjaminl
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2025-08-03 06:51:11 +0200infinity0(~infinity0@pwned.gg) infinity0
2025-08-03 06:55:23 +0200haritz(~hrtz@user/haritz) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1+deb12u1 - https://znc.in)
2025-08-03 06:58:11 +0200Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2025-08-03 06:59:42 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-08-03 07:06:44 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus) Lycurgus
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2025-08-03 07:14:27 +0200fgarcia(~lei@user/fgarcia) fgarcia
2025-08-03 07:14:49 +0200 <sm> 👍🏻
2025-08-03 07:15:07 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-08-03 07:54:56 +0200CiaoSen(~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) CiaoSen
2025-08-03 07:57:19 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-08-03 07:57:58 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-56-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2025-08-03 08:17:07 +0200tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:1c21:f6c3:9146:cddf) (Client Quit)
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2025-08-03 08:27:13 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: irc.renjuan.org (juan@acm.org))
2025-08-03 08:28:22 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-08-03 09:45:16 +0200lxsameer(~lxsameer@Serene/lxsameer) lxsameer
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2025-08-03 10:24:02 +0200 <lxsameer> hey folks, I have a transformer monad FooT m a, what would be the conventional way to create a generic function that transforms the inner monad m to n? Right now, i have a function that I specialize for different types of m and n
2025-08-03 10:27:01 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-56-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-08-03 10:28:01 +0200caubert(~caubert@user/caubert) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-08-03 10:28:44 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Quit: peterbecich)
2025-08-03 10:30:01 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-08-03 10:30:20 +0200 <Leary> lxsameer: What's stopping you from writing a function polmorphic in the monads?
2025-08-03 10:31:51 +0200 <lxsameer> like foo :: m a -> n a?
2025-08-03 10:32:26 +0200 <c_wraith> Leary: you'd have something that looks a lot like https://hackage-content.haskell.org/package/mmorph-1.2.1/docs/Control-Monad-Morph.html#v:hoist
2025-08-03 10:32:31 +0200 <Leary> Like `mapFooT :: (m a -> n b) -> FooT m a -> FooT n b` or `hmapFooT :: (forall x. m x -> n x) -> FooT m a -> FooT n a`.
2025-08-03 10:32:50 +0200caubert(~caubert@user/caubert) caubert
2025-08-03 10:32:59 +0200 <c_wraith> Note that it's polytypic, so leaning on the library doesn't give you any implementation tools
2025-08-03 10:33:37 +0200 <lxsameer> c_wraith: cheers, I rather learn how to do it, it seems it's a gap in my knowledge
2025-08-03 10:33:53 +0200 <lxsameer> Leary: but m a -> n b is kinda immposible
2025-08-03 10:34:10 +0200 <lxsameer> cause I don't know how to extract a from a generic monad m
2025-08-03 10:34:12 +0200 <c_wraith> err. sorry, highlighted the wrong person. But you've sorted it out
2025-08-03 10:34:25 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-08-03 10:34:38 +0200 <Leary> Which kind of mapping function you need depends on the details of the transformer. The latter is also impossible if the transformer isn't functorial in the monad.
2025-08-03 10:37:20 +0200 <lxsameer> so basically, there's no generic way to write that mapping function, did I get it right?
2025-08-03 10:38:51 +0200 <Leary> Well, there kinda is: the same way you write (or the GHC instance deriver) writes `Functor` instances, when it's possible. This is just another kind of `fmap`, so it should be quite mechanical.
2025-08-03 10:40:42 +0200 <lxsameer> Leary: ah i see, thank you
2025-08-03 10:43:29 +0200acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e71719149d1d473a745282b7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk
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2025-08-03 11:59:04 +0200Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2025-08-03 12:04:42 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-08-03 12:06:01 +0200euouae(~euouae@user/euouae) euouae
2025-08-03 12:06:04 +0200 <euouae> Hello
2025-08-03 12:06:14 +0200Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-08-03 12:06:57 +0200 <euouae> Hey all
2025-08-03 12:07:30 +0200 <euouae> Oops (said hi twice) I'm trying to write an app that also comes with some library files. How do I deal with the x.y.z.w versioning of cabal?
2025-08-03 12:08:40 +0200 <lxsameer> euouae: what libraries? and what versioning are you referring to? the cabal version? or dependency versions?
2025-08-03 12:09:25 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-08-03 12:10:31 +0200 <euouae> yeah the cabal version
2025-08-03 12:10:38 +0200 <euouae> the libraries are the src/*.hs files
2025-08-03 12:11:12 +0200 <lxsameer> use hpack
2025-08-03 12:11:45 +0200 <lxsameer> and for cabal version you provide a minimum version that you want to support in your cabal file or package file (in case of hpack)
2025-08-03 12:12:17 +0200fizbin(~fizbin@2601:84:8601:2604:65a2:2790:1327:34c5)
2025-08-03 12:12:29 +0200Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2025-08-03 12:12:47 +0200 <euouae> oh no, what I'm asking is, how should I set my own package's version
2025-08-03 12:13:11 +0200 <euouae> The x.y.z.w version is explained for a library (major minor patch etc) but it's not clear what it means (if anything) for an app + library
2025-08-03 12:13:34 +0200 <euouae> cabal works for me, I'm not sure if I need hpack
2025-08-03 12:14:03 +0200 <lxsameer> hpack is just a handy tool, you will still use cabal, it just generate the cabal file for you.
2025-08-03 12:14:29 +0200 <lxsameer> if you want to to distribute your app and library together, highly recommend using the same version for both
2025-08-03 12:15:22 +0200 <euouae> the same version of what?
2025-08-03 12:16:13 +0200 <euouae> I'm talking about the version: field of the .cabal file for a project with a `library` and an `executable`...
2025-08-03 12:16:25 +0200 <lxsameer> what version are you talking about then?
2025-08-03 12:16:41 +0200 <haskellbridge> <Morj> Sometimes you can think of a binary as a library with a weird linkage. Especially evident in command-line interfaces where someone at some point will want to use you in a script - then you can use the version to signify breakage as usual for this use-case
2025-08-03 12:16:44 +0200 <haskellbridge> <Morj> Otherwise you can just put whatever
2025-08-03 12:17:46 +0200 <haskellbridge> <Morj> I think most of my binaries are at a perpetual 0.1.0.0
2025-08-03 12:20:07 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-08-03 12:21:32 +0200 <euouae> lxsameer: I've specified multiple times
2025-08-03 12:21:45 +0200 <euouae> You have a project.cabal file. It has a version: field. That one.
2025-08-03 12:22:09 +0200 <euouae> Morj, hm... fair
2025-08-03 12:23:13 +0200euandreh(~Thunderbi@189-31-61-8.user3p.v-tal.net.br) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-08-03 12:24:49 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-08-03 12:31:16 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz)
2025-08-03 12:35:29 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-08-03 12:37:28 +0200caubert(~caubert@user/caubert) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-08-03 12:38:29 +0200 <haskellbridge> <sm> euouae, are you wondering how to pick PVP-compliant version numbers for an application ?
2025-08-03 12:41:14 +0200 <euouae> If that's a thing?
2025-08-03 12:41:34 +0200gmg(~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-08-03 12:42:03 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-08-03 12:42:41 +0200 <haskellbridge> <sm> A package that provides both apps and libraries (typically one of each) is pretty common. A release of this package will have a version that applies to both the app and library (like lxsameer said). There’s no sensible way to give them different versions in that scenario I think.
2025-08-03 12:44:20 +0200 <haskellbridge> <sm> When I’m releasing a package like that, I consider both the API of the library and the UI/UX of the app. PVP is less formal for an app, but you can pretty much apply the same principle.
2025-08-03 12:44:45 +0200 <euouae> Oh is that what he said? I thought that he said that the cabal program that built the app should be the same version as the lib
2025-08-03 12:44:48 +0200 <euouae> I see now, my bad
2025-08-03 12:45:10 +0200 <euouae> Fair enough, I'll try to follow PVP
2025-08-03 12:46:17 +0200 <haskellbridge> <sm> I don’t do PVP exactly, but the same general idea. If there’s a user-visible breaking change, that’s a major version bump, etc.
2025-08-03 12:50:48 +0200caubert(~caubert@user/caubert) caubert
2025-08-03 12:52:11 +0200fizbin(~fizbin@2601:84:8601:2604:65a2:2790:1327:34c5) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-08-03 12:53:31 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-08-03 12:56:44 +0200fizbin(~fizbin@2601:84:8601:2604:65a2:2790:1327:34c5)
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2025-08-03 13:02:48 +0200lxsameer(~lxsameer@Serene/lxsameer) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2025-08-03 13:07:18 +0200 <euouae> okay got it
2025-08-03 13:08:54 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-08-03 13:11:13 +0200trickard_trickard
2025-08-03 13:13:18 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-08-03 13:13:25 +0200tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:1c21:f6c3:9146:cddf)
2025-08-03 13:13:32 +0200Ezic(~Ezic@2a02:a31c:2d8:4400:6424:8966:5ad2:3460)
2025-08-03 13:15:41 +0200 <Ezic> @hoogle fmap
2025-08-03 13:15:41 +0200 <lambdabot> Prelude fmap :: Functor f => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b
2025-08-03 13:15:41 +0200 <lambdabot> Control.Monad fmap :: Functor f => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b
2025-08-03 13:15:41 +0200 <lambdabot> Control.Monad.Instances fmap :: Functor f => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b
2025-08-03 13:15:55 +0200caubert(~caubert@user/caubert) caubert
2025-08-03 13:18:46 +0200 <Ezic> > fix (\f x -> x * f (x-1)) 5
2025-08-03 13:18:53 +0200 <lambdabot> mueval-core: Time limit exceeded
2025-08-03 13:19:28 +0200 <Ezic> > fix (\f x -> if x == 0 then 1 else x * f (x-1)) 5
2025-08-03 13:19:29 +0200 <lambdabot> 120
2025-08-03 13:20:57 +0200Lord_of_Life_(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) Lord_of_Life
2025-08-03 13:20:58 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-08-03 13:21:08 +0200euouae(~euouae@user/euouae) ()
2025-08-03 13:23:41 +0200Lord_of_Life_Lord_of_Life
2025-08-03 13:25:49 +0200pera(~pera@user/pera) pera
2025-08-03 13:26:59 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-08-03 13:47:15 +0200fizbin(~fizbin@2601:84:8601:2604:65a2:2790:1327:34c5) (Changing host)
2025-08-03 13:47:15 +0200fizbin(~fizbin@user/fizbin) fizbin
2025-08-03 13:47:45 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-08-03 13:52:50 +0200krei-se(~krei-se@p200300f1cf2fbd010000000000009569.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: ZNC 1.9.1 - https://znc.in)
2025-08-03 13:53:13 +0200sprotte24(~sprotte24@p200300d16f12c90091062a35ec430294.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2025-08-03 13:53:22 +0200fizbin(~fizbin@user/fizbin) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-08-03 13:55:07 +0200krei-se(~krei-se@p3ee0f67c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) krei-se
2025-08-03 13:55:15 +0200krei-se(~krei-se@p3ee0f67c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-08-03 13:58:42 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-08-03 14:02:18 +0200krei-se(~krei-se@p3ee0f67c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) krei-se
2025-08-03 14:02:58 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-08-03 14:03:40 +0200hseg(~gesh@46.120.20.122)
2025-08-03 14:10:02 +0200fizbin(~fizbin@2601:84:8601:2604:65a2:2790:1327:34c5)
2025-08-03 14:10:20 +0200fizbin(~fizbin@2601:84:8601:2604:65a2:2790:1327:34c5) (Changing host)
2025-08-03 14:10:20 +0200fizbin(~fizbin@user/fizbin) fizbin
2025-08-03 14:11:55 +0200 <fizbin> Is anyone still using stack for new projects, or is that now considered obsoleted by improvements that have been made to cabal since stack was created?
2025-08-03 14:11:59 +0200smalltalkman(uid545680@id-545680.hampstead.irccloud.com) smalltalkman
2025-08-03 14:11:59 +0200trickard(~trickard@cpe-56-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-08-03 14:12:14 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-56-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-08-03 14:14:02 +0200pavonia(~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!)
2025-08-03 14:14:14 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-08-03 14:17:25 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@n60e2qpup8cye21nl23-1.v6.elisa-mobile.fi) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-08-03 14:18:28 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@n5hoc7dol3omjl5lroe-1.v6.elisa-mobile.fi)
2025-08-03 14:21:09 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-08-03 14:22:10 +0200caubert(~caubert@user/caubert) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-08-03 14:23:37 +0200tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:1c21:f6c3:9146:cddf) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2025-08-03 14:26:45 +0200tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:1c21:f6c3:9146:cddf)
2025-08-03 14:32:17 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-08-03 14:34:47 +0200Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2025-08-03 14:35:03 +0200Ezic(~Ezic@2a02:a31c:2d8:4400:6424:8966:5ad2:3460) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-08-03 14:35:29 +0200caubert(~caubert@user/caubert) caubert
2025-08-03 14:35:32 +0200trickard_trickard
2025-08-03 14:37:00 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-08-03 14:40:14 +0200caubert(~caubert@user/caubert) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-08-03 14:46:58 +0200weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) user363627
2025-08-03 14:47:07 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus) Lycurgus
2025-08-03 14:47:46 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-08-03 14:52:46 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2025-08-03 14:53:14 +0200caubert(~caubert@user/caubert) caubert
2025-08-03 14:53:17 +0200trickard(~trickard@cpe-56-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-08-03 14:53:31 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-56-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-08-03 14:57:16 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-08-03 15:01:00 +0200caubert(~caubert@user/caubert) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2025-08-03 15:02:16 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2025-08-03 15:02:45 +0200JimmyMifune(JimmyMifun@h77-53-77-194.cust.bredband2.com)