2025/07/24

2025-07-24 00:00:03 +0200jespada(~jespada@2800:a4:2294:8e00:19d2:eeb5:d2f7:4ff1) jespada
2025-07-24 00:02:45 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-07-24 00:05:23 +0200takuan(~takuan@d8D86B9E9.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-07-24 00:07:34 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-07-24 00:09:26 +0200 <haskellbridge> <Ricardo> geekosaur: I see. Thank you. I find it really baffling that ormolu and fourmolu sort imports
2025-07-24 00:12:54 +0200CiaoSen(~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-07-24 00:14:09 +0200euphores(~SASL_euph@user/euphores) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-07-24 00:18:09 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-07-24 00:18:10 +0200 <haskellbridge> <Ricardo> Does anyone know how I can configure HLS in emacs to use floskell? I run "floskell Main.hs" and the result is not the same that emacs is giving me when I save a file. Or is it possible to at least disable the automatic formatting that HLS on emacs does whenever I save a file?
2025-07-24 00:19:11 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus) Lycurgus
2025-07-24 00:22:50 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-07-24 00:24:35 +0200sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) (Quit: sord937)
2025-07-24 00:32:30 +0200jreicher(~user@user/jreicher) jreicher
2025-07-24 00:33:37 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-07-24 00:36:03 +0200ystael(~ystael@user/ystael) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-07-24 00:37:58 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-07-24 00:39:33 +0200 <jreicher> geekosaur: If you have HLS installed you should be able to do M-x eglot and it will "just work", as the default eglot server list already has haskell-language-server-wrapper configured. But make sure you are not using lsp-mode when you do this. Have the buffer just in plain haskell-mode.
2025-07-24 00:40:05 +0200 <geekosaur> @Ricardo ^^
2025-07-24 00:40:05 +0200 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
2025-07-24 00:43:27 +0200 <haskellbridge> <Ricardo> jreicher: I'm using lsp-mode because doom emacs comes with it and that's what I'm using. Also, it is not the case that HLS isn't working in my setup. It's just that it isn't honouring the value of the variable lsp-haskell-formatting-provider as it seems.
2025-07-24 00:43:54 +0200 <jreicher> Core Emacs comes with eglot, which means it's in all versions of Emacs.
2025-07-24 00:44:32 +0200 <haskellbridge> <Ricardo> I know. I'm just saying that I'm using lsp-mode instead.
2025-07-24 00:45:03 +0200 <jreicher> Any particular reason? The experience of most Emacs users now I think is that eglot works better.
2025-07-24 00:45:32 +0200 <haskellbridge> <Ricardo> Because I like the configuration that doom emacs brings for lsp-mode
2025-07-24 00:49:05 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-07-24 00:50:45 +0200diagprov(uid348783@user/diagprov) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
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2025-07-24 00:56:32 +0200ethantwardy(~user@user/ethantwardy) ethantwardy
2025-07-24 01:01:51 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod
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2025-07-24 01:07:09 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-07-24 01:16:28 +0200falafel(~falafel@79.117.174.28) falafel
2025-07-24 01:18:45 +0200rvalue(~rvalue@about/hackers/rvalue) (Max SendQ exceeded)
2025-07-24 01:19:11 +0200rvalue(~rvalue@about/hackers/rvalue) rvalue
2025-07-24 01:20:17 +0200 <haskellbridge> <Ricardo> I just found that "cabal help user-config" talks about "~/.config/cabal/config" being the config file, but it turns out the actual file is "~/.cabal/config". I hope someone here is a cabal dev or sufficiently motivated to report the inconsistency in the documentation
2025-07-24 01:22:31 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-07-24 01:27:00 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-07-24 01:27:15 +0200falafel(~falafel@79.117.174.28) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2025-07-24 01:29:19 +0200 <geekosaur> iirc the actual behavior is "if ~/.cabal exists then it is used for backward compatibility, but new installs will create ~/.config/cabal/config
2025-07-24 01:29:23 +0200 <geekosaur> "
2025-07-24 01:29:49 +0200 <geekosaur> that said, I'm not sure how ghcup's autosetup of cabal interacts, it may precreate ~/.cabal
2025-07-24 01:30:14 +0200Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-07-24 01:30:37 +0200Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2025-07-24 01:31:15 +0200 <geekosaur> verified that the XDG path is used if ~/.cabal doesn't already exist
2025-07-24 01:33:54 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: irc.renjuan.org (juan@acm.org))
2025-07-24 01:34:29 +0200 <geekosaur> I'm not sure if the help can reasonably adapt to the two cases
2025-07-24 01:35:13 +0200 <haskellbridge> <Ricardo> geekosaur: This may be the case, because I installed cabal just a few days ago using ghcup
2025-07-24 01:35:47 +0200[b7r6](~user@user/b7r6) (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 30.1)
2025-07-24 01:35:51 +0200 <haskellbridge> <Ricardo> geekosaur: It'd be easy to do so
2025-07-24 01:36:12 +0200 <haskellbridge> <Ricardo> Just mention the two options in "cabal help user-config"
2025-07-24 01:36:22 +0200b7r6(~b7r6@user/b7r6) b7r6
2025-07-24 01:37:24 +0200sprotte24_(~sprotte24@p5dd5d519.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
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2025-07-24 01:37:55 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-07-24 01:38:28 +0200 <geekosaur> https://github.com/haskell/cabal/issues/11096
2025-07-24 01:39:36 +0200 <haskellbridge> <Ricardo> Cool!
2025-07-24 01:40:40 +0200 <haskellbridge> <Ricardo> Also I guess ghcup should use "~/.config/cabal" instead of "~/.cabal"
2025-07-24 01:40:53 +0200 <geekosaur> its author hates XDG
2025-07-24 01:41:12 +0200 <geekosaur> there's a way to make ghcup itself use XDG but it's somewhat poorly behaved
2025-07-24 01:41:45 +0200 <geekosaur> (for example I have `cabal-plan` installed, ghcup lists it as a stray `cabal` version)
2025-07-24 01:42:28 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2025-07-24 01:43:41 +0200pavonia(~user@user/siracusa) siracusa
2025-07-24 01:47:26 +0200 <haskellbridge> <Ricardo> I see. Well, it's curious that the author of such an important tool in the Haskell ecosystem holds that opinion and forces his opinion on the whole ecosystem
2025-07-24 01:52:53 +0200Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2025-07-24 01:53:25 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-07-24 01:53:48 +0200Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
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2025-07-24 01:56:15 +0200 <haskellbridge> <Ricardo> When I run "cabal init" I'm asked which version of the cabal specification to use and the default option is 3.0, but the latest is 3.4. Why would anyone want to create a package today with version 3.0 instead of 3.4, the latest?
2025-07-24 01:57:26 +0200 <geekosaur> backward compatibility
2025-07-24 01:57:47 +0200 <c_wraith> there's also just not that much new stuff. If you don't need the new stuff, don't say you do
2025-07-24 01:57:58 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-07-24 01:58:44 +0200 <geekosaur> right, that as well. you're declaring what features your package needs; if you don't need fancier new stuff, don't bother declaring it
2025-07-24 01:59:32 +0200falafel(~falafel@79.117.174.28) falafel
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2025-07-24 02:04:37 +0200jmcantrell_(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
2025-07-24 02:04:37 +0200jmcantrell_jmcantrell
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2025-07-24 02:08:48 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-07-24 02:11:19 +0200emmanuelux(~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) emmanuelux
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2025-07-24 02:17:17 +0200arandombit(~arandombi@user/arandombit) arandombit
2025-07-24 02:18:31 +0200falafel(~falafel@2a0c:5a87:3104:8f01::f709) falafel
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2025-07-24 02:19:21 +0200 <Square3> One thing that seems popular in Haskell is to organize your modules in a way such there's a root module that pretty much re-exports all modules in the project. Also the root module is often accompanied by a nice usage guide. But how efficient is it to feed this big root module to the compiler?
2025-07-24 02:19:58 +0200 <Square3> ...when using the package in a project
2025-07-24 02:22:41 +0200arandombit(~arandombi@user/arandombit) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-07-24 02:23:02 +0200trickard__(~trickard@cpe-50-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-07-24 02:23:15 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-50-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-07-24 02:23:33 +0200 <Square3> May be a nothing burger, it just hit me.
2025-07-24 02:24:18 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-07-24 02:24:56 +0200 <haskellbridge> <sm> don’t really know Square3. From time to time I’ve seen people saying that explicitly declaring imports can speed up something or other
2025-07-24 02:25:27 +0200 <haskellbridge> <sm> * I think
2025-07-24 02:28:19 +0200 <Square3> Just checking
2025-07-24 02:28:35 +0200falafel(~falafel@2a0c:5a87:3104:8f01::f709) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-07-24 02:29:05 +0200 <geekosaur> explicit import lists can speed up symbol lookups by the compiler
2025-07-24 02:30:25 +0200 <geekosaur> having a top level module that exports the most useful stuff makes things easier for programmers using your module. they might lead to the compiler (or linker) having to do a little more work, but that won't impact runtime, only compile time. and in many cases won't be noticeable
2025-07-24 02:31:13 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-07-24 02:33:27 +0200 <geekosaur> (I have to say that, if it had been up to me, `XMonad` wouldn't reexport `Graphics.X11.Xlib` and friends. that would be a couple hundred symbols most people don't care about and the ones who do know where to find them)
2025-07-24 02:34:15 +0200 <geekosaur> maybe over a thousand since it exports all the KeySyms and such as well
2025-07-24 02:34:43 +0200down200-(~down200@shell.lug.mtu.edu) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2025-07-24 02:34:52 +0200 <geekosaur> which, well, with old-style keybinding some of those are useful
2025-07-24 02:35:07 +0200 <geekosaur> but in 2025 I think we want to encourage use of EZConfig instead
2025-07-24 02:35:35 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) Sgeo
2025-07-24 02:37:05 +0200 <geekosaur> that said, I think we'd want to keep the "XMonad exports everything you need" aspect because my config at last check imports 59 things from it 🙂
2025-07-24 02:37:06 +0200arandombit(~arandombi@user/arandombit) arandombit
2025-07-24 02:37:14 +0200 <geekosaur> screw import lists 🙂
2025-07-24 02:37:31 +0200weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) user363627
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2025-07-24 02:42:01 +0200down200(~down200@shell.lug.mtu.edu) down200
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2025-07-24 02:55:53 +0200 <haskellbridge> <sm> import lists are indeed a pain, they impose a heavy cost for new modules
2025-07-24 02:56:36 +0200 <haskellbridge> <sm> as in, every time you create a module you are adding more boilerplate and maintenance work
2025-07-24 02:57:41 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-07-24 03:07:11 +0200 <geekosaur> (xmonad is a window manager EDSL, so most of what you use is part of that EDSL, so 59 isn't unreasonable. I have a number of custom definitions in my config but they all use additional imports)
2025-07-24 03:08:58 +0200be8bcca2f3(~be8bcca2f@user/be8bcca2f3) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2025-07-24 03:24:01 +0200down200(~down200@shell.lug.mtu.edu) down200
2025-07-24 03:24:24 +0200 <Axman6> A discussion yesterday ended with me looking at the Crainlift project, have there been any proposals for a GHC backend targetting it? It looks like it could be easier to keep pace with than LLVM
2025-07-24 03:24:47 +0200 <Axman6> and possibly provide a GHC bootstrap mechanism
2025-07-24 03:25:49 +0200 <Axman6> The IR looks quite interesting, blocks within functions take arguments, which isn't something I've seen before
2025-07-24 03:28:29 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-07-24 03:31:41 +0200 <haskellbridge> <Jack​> geekosaur: To quote the GHC users guide:
2025-07-24 03:31:41 +0200 <haskellbridge> ... long message truncated: https://kf8nh.com/_heisenbridge/media/kf8nh.com/eQRWxUXNoxmVCyQGgYPVqLZB/uMdUmaYheJQ (4 lines)
2025-07-24 03:32:13 +0200 <jackdk> Cranelift is written in Rust, isn't it? So you still have a gnarly bootstrap
2025-07-24 03:32:56 +0200 <geekosaur> @Jack: only partly true, as it turns out. gjhc will export some things itself if marked INLINEABLE or SPECIALIZEABLE, for example
2025-07-24 03:32:56 +0200 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
2025-07-24 03:33:03 +0200 <geekosaur> *ghc
2025-07-24 03:33:19 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-07-24 03:33:37 +0200 <haskellbridge> <sm> Jack: excellent reference. It doesn’t quantify the user-visible impact, I suspect that’s still quite small but I could be wrong
2025-07-24 03:34:10 +0200 <geekosaur> (or if they're small enough that ghc infers it can inline them)
2025-07-24 03:35:14 +0200 <haskellbridge> <Jack​> That makes sense. I’m glad there’s some way to export your cake and eat it quickly too.
2025-07-24 03:35:56 +0200 <geekosaur> Axman6, jackdk: perhaps worse, you're still using LLVM underneath IIRC
2025-07-24 03:37:13 +0200 <Axman6> It seems ot be independent from LLVM? It's an alternative target for the rust compiler
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2025-07-24 04:32:58 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-07-24 04:35:31 +0200arandombit(~arandombi@37.120.80.229)
2025-07-24 04:35:31 +0200arandombit(~arandombi@37.120.80.229) (Changing host)
2025-07-24 04:35:31 +0200arandombit(~arandombi@user/arandombit) arandombit
2025-07-24 04:40:32 +0200arandombit(~arandombi@user/arandombit) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-07-24 04:43:38 +0200ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-07-24 04:44:10 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-07-24 04:48:28 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-07-24 04:53:10 +0200arandombit(~arandombi@user/arandombit) arandombit
2025-07-24 04:55:28 +0200ethantwardy(~user@user/ethantwardy) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-07-24 04:55:29 +0200Unicorn_Princess(~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-07-24 04:58:28 +0200arandombit(~arandombi@user/arandombit) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-07-24 04:59:34 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-07-24 05:00:36 +0200arandombit(~arandombi@user/arandombit) arandombit
2025-07-24 05:04:17 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-07-24 05:05:54 +0200arandombit(~arandombi@user/arandombit) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-07-24 05:08:01 +0200trickard_trickard
2025-07-24 05:13:49 +0200Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-07-24 05:14:56 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-07-24 05:17:22 +0200arandombit(~arandombi@user/arandombit) arandombit
2025-07-24 05:19:54 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2025-07-24 05:20:25 +0200Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2025-07-24 05:22:28 +0200arandombit(~arandombi@user/arandombit) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)