2025/07/21

2025-07-21 00:01:01 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-07-21 00:01:20 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-07-21 00:02:56 +0200weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-07-21 00:04:34 +0200weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) user363627
2025-07-21 00:05:58 +0200ouilemur(~jgmerritt@user/ouilemur) ouilemur
2025-07-21 00:07:20 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-07-21 00:10:50 +0200jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
2025-07-21 00:11:27 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-07-21 00:32:39 +0200califax(~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2025-07-21 00:34:33 +0200caubert(~caubert@user/caubert) caubert
2025-07-21 00:38:17 +0200falafel(~falafel@2a0c:5a87:3104:8f01::f709) falafel
2025-07-21 00:50:28 +0200ZLima12(~zlima12@user/meow/ZLima12) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-07-21 00:51:38 +0200ZLima12(~zlima12@user/meow/ZLima12) ZLima12
2025-07-21 00:53:27 +0200sprotte24(~sprotte24@p200300d16f2948009c678ec48f5f588c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Leaving)
2025-07-21 00:55:23 +0200ljdarj1(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj
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2025-07-21 01:10:49 +0200humasect(~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) humasect
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2025-07-21 01:17:59 +0200califax_(~califax@user/califx) califx
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2025-07-21 01:19:14 +0200califax_califax
2025-07-21 01:24:33 +0200Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-07-21 01:27:45 +0200acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e70b6627bd08c11034972950.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-07-21 01:32:46 +0200Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2025-07-21 01:41:59 +0200humasect(~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Quit: Leaving...)
2025-07-21 01:44:54 +0200falafel(~falafel@2a0c:5a87:3104:8f01::f709) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-07-21 01:46:23 +0200falafel(~falafel@2a0c:5a87:3104:8f01::f709) falafel
2025-07-21 01:59:13 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-07-21 02:12:42 +0200ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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2025-07-21 02:21:21 +0200rvalue(~rvalue@about/hackers/rvalue) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-07-21 02:34:02 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-07-21 02:34:15 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-07-21 02:40:14 +0200ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj
2025-07-21 02:41:36 +0200falafel(~falafel@2a0c:5a87:3104:8f01::f709) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-07-21 02:41:58 +0200caubert(~caubert@user/caubert) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-07-21 02:42:09 +0200todi(~todi@p57803331.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) todi
2025-07-21 02:43:56 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich
2025-07-21 02:44:16 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod
2025-07-21 02:51:32 +0200rhz(~rhz@190.5.35.164) (Quit: Client closed)
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2025-07-21 02:56:22 +0200caubert(~caubert@user/caubert) caubert
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2025-07-21 03:16:50 +0200rvalue(~rvalue@about/hackers/rvalue) rvalue
2025-07-21 03:30:06 +0200ftzm9(~ftzm@085080231172.dynamic.telenor.dk) ftzm
2025-07-21 03:31:47 +0200takuan(~takuan@d8D86B9E9.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-07-21 03:31:51 +0200weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2025-07-21 03:31:59 +0200ftzm(~ftzm@085080236095.dynamic.telenor.dk) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2025-07-21 03:54:38 +0200bcksl(~bcksl@user/bcksl) bcksl
2025-07-21 03:57:58 +0200Unicorn_Princess(~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-07-21 03:59:44 +0200caubert(~caubert@user/caubert) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2025-07-21 04:01:46 +0200end(~end@user/end/x-0094621) end^
2025-07-21 04:09:07 +0200bramh(~bramh@user/bramh) (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds))
2025-07-21 04:09:24 +0200bramh(~bramh@user/bramh) bramh
2025-07-21 04:15:15 +0200trickard_trickard
2025-07-21 04:19:32 +0200caubert(~caubert@user/caubert) caubert
2025-07-21 04:30:34 +0200amadaluzia(~amadaluzi@user/amadaluzia) amadaluzia
2025-07-21 04:32:33 +0200td_(~td@i53870910.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2025-07-21 04:33:11 +0200ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-07-21 04:35:08 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus) Lycurgus
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2025-07-21 04:39:03 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2025-07-21 04:42:18 +0200connrs(~connrs@user/connrs) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2025-07-21 04:49:11 +0200Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-07-21 04:49:35 +0200Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2025-07-21 04:55:31 +0200vanishingideal(~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal
2025-07-21 05:02:39 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: irc.renjuan.org (juan@acm.org))
2025-07-21 05:10:23 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:b4a:f806:ddbd:3003)
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2025-07-21 05:34:19 +0200weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) user363627
2025-07-21 05:38:43 +0200Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2025-07-21 05:42:07 +0200Square2(~Square@user/square) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-07-21 05:45:40 +0200humasect(~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) humasect
2025-07-21 05:52:58 +0200caubert(~caubert@user/caubert) caubert
2025-07-21 05:56:25 +0200sus0(zero@user/zeromomentum) zeromomentum
2025-07-21 05:58:37 +0200cashew(~cashewsta@pool-71-169-14-231.pghkny.fios.verizon.net)
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2025-07-21 06:09:20 +0200Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2025-07-21 06:10:39 +0200ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj
2025-07-21 06:10:51 +0200ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Client Quit)
2025-07-21 06:19:26 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:b4a:f806:ddbd:3003)
2025-07-21 06:22:41 +0200tsuki(~tsuki@49.37.43.51)
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2025-07-21 06:30:27 +0200cashew(~cashewsta@pool-71-169-14-231.pghkny.fios.verizon.net)
2025-07-21 06:34:12 +0200cashew(~cashewsta@pool-71-169-14-231.pghkny.fios.verizon.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2025-07-21 06:48:32 +0200Leary(~Leary@user/Leary/x-0910699) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-07-21 06:51:45 +0200Leary(~Leary@user/Leary/x-0910699) Leary
2025-07-21 06:52:27 +0200cashew(~cashewsta@pool-71-169-14-231.pghkny.fios.verizon.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-07-21 06:54:04 +0200cashew(~cashewsta@pool-71-169-14-231.pghkny.fios.verizon.net)
2025-07-21 06:55:06 +0200trickard(~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-07-21 06:55:19 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-07-21 06:57:57 +0200michalz(~michalz@185.246.207.205)
2025-07-21 06:58:33 +0200mhatta(~mhatta@www21123ui.sakura.ne.jp) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-07-21 07:03:37 +0200 <elenril> cabal does not support separating the build tree from the source?
2025-07-21 07:05:38 +0200tsuki(~tsuki@49.37.43.51) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-07-21 07:17:29 +0200cashew(~cashewsta@pool-71-169-14-231.pghkny.fios.verizon.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-07-21 07:17:51 +0200cashew(~cashewsta@pool-71-169-14-231.pghkny.fios.verizon.net)
2025-07-21 07:19:54 +0200cashew(~cashewsta@pool-71-169-14-231.pghkny.fios.verizon.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-07-21 07:21:02 +0200 <geekosaur> eh? the build tree is in `dist-newstyle` by default and can be changed
2025-07-21 07:21:41 +0200 <elenril> huh, I wonder why does nothing talk about it then
2025-07-21 07:21:53 +0200 <elenril> the only reference google returned was to an old ghc manual
2025-07-21 07:28:43 +0200 <geekosaur> I don't think it's specifically referred to as a build tree
2025-07-21 07:29:11 +0200 <geekosaur> (it is in fact more than just a build tree)
2025-07-21 07:31:51 +0200fp(~Thunderbi@2001-14bb-ce-ec18-dea2-5cd-93cc-55e7.rev.dnainternet.fi) fp
2025-07-21 07:34:25 +0200olivial(~benjaminl@user/benjaminl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-07-21 07:34:40 +0200olivial(~benjaminl@user/benjaminl) benjaminl
2025-07-21 07:41:22 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich
2025-07-21 07:53:02 +0200bcksl(~bcksl@user/bcksl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-07-21 07:53:46 +0200end(~end@user/end/x-0094621) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-07-21 07:54:08 +0200sus0(zero@user/zeromomentum) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2025-07-21 07:57:18 +0200haritz(~hrtz@user/haritz) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1+deb12u1 - https://znc.in)
2025-07-21 07:59:36 +0200prdak(~Thunderbi@user/prdak) prdak
2025-07-21 08:01:48 +0200biberu(~biberu@user/biberu) biberu
2025-07-21 08:03:49 +0200connrs(~connrs@user/connrs) connrs
2025-07-21 08:06:56 +0200CiaoSen(~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) CiaoSen
2025-07-21 08:07:26 +0200prdak(~Thunderbi@user/prdak) (Quit: prdak)
2025-07-21 08:07:46 +0200prdak(~Thunderbi@user/prdak) prdak
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2025-07-21 08:11:37 +0200caubert(~caubert@user/caubert) caubert
2025-07-21 08:11:55 +0200bcksl(~bcksl@user/bcksl) bcksl
2025-07-21 08:14:28 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-07-21 08:16:35 +0200dhil(~dhil@5.151.29.141) dhil
2025-07-21 08:16:49 +0200caubert(~caubert@user/caubert) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-07-21 08:16:56 +0200end(~end@user/end/x-0094621) end^
2025-07-21 08:22:56 +0200trickard_trickard
2025-07-21 08:23:46 +0200humasect(~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Quit: Leaving...)
2025-07-21 08:29:38 +0200caubert(~caubert@user/caubert) caubert
2025-07-21 08:30:16 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-07-21 08:35:56 +0200caubert(~caubert@user/caubert) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-07-21 08:39:54 +0200caubert(~caubert@user/caubert) caubert
2025-07-21 08:42:46 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz)
2025-07-21 08:50:46 +0200ft(~ft@p508db189.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: leaving)
2025-07-21 08:52:36 +0200Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-07-21 08:59:16 +0200ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj
2025-07-21 09:00:00 +0200caconym74(~caconym@user/caconym) (Quit: bye)
2025-07-21 09:00:22 +0200chele(~chele@user/chele) chele
2025-07-21 09:00:39 +0200caconym74(~caconym@user/caconym) caconym
2025-07-21 09:02:36 +0200sus0(zero@user/zeromomentum) zeromomentum
2025-07-21 09:02:52 +0200fp(~Thunderbi@2001-14bb-ce-ec18-dea2-5cd-93cc-55e7.rev.dnainternet.fi) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2025-07-21 09:10:26 +0200califax(~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-07-21 09:12:39 +0200califax(~califax@user/califx) califx
2025-07-21 09:17:05 +0200caubert(~caubert@user/caubert) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-07-21 09:22:12 +0200jreicher(~user@user/jreicher) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-07-21 09:22:48 +0200caubert(~caubert@user/caubert) caubert
2025-07-21 09:22:56 +0200jreicher(~user@user/jreicher) jreicher
2025-07-21 09:23:19 +0200califax(~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-07-21 09:25:00 +0200califax(~califax@user/califx) califx
2025-07-21 09:25:10 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich
2025-07-21 09:26:43 +0200acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e70b66275c5612394638f67e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk
2025-07-21 09:28:15 +0200califax(~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-07-21 09:29:54 +0200califax(~califax@user/califx) califx
2025-07-21 09:32:04 +0200dhil(~dhil@5.151.29.141) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-07-21 09:43:05 +0200lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:55ab:e185:7f81:54a4) lortabac
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2025-07-21 09:48:04 +0200fp(~Thunderbi@wireless-86-50-140-9.open.aalto.fi) fp
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2025-07-21 10:06:08 +0200califax(~califax@user/califx) califx
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2025-07-21 10:10:45 +0200weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-07-21 10:22:25 +0200califax(~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2025-07-21 10:31:01 +0200califax(~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-07-21 10:31:28 +0200merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-07-21 10:32:15 +0200califax(~califax@user/califx) califx
2025-07-21 10:34:00 +0200califax(~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-07-21 10:35:23 +0200merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn
2025-07-21 10:35:35 +0200califax(~califax@user/califx) califx
2025-07-21 10:35:57 +0200prdak(~Thunderbi@user/prdak) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-07-21 10:36:28 +0200caubert(~caubert@user/caubert) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-07-21 10:39:00 +0200pabs3(~pabs3@user/pabs3) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-07-21 10:39:50 +0200califax(~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2025-07-21 10:42:25 +0200caubert(~caubert@user/caubert) caubert
2025-07-21 10:48:56 +0200prdak(~Thunderbi@user/prdak) prdak
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2025-07-21 10:54:07 +0200prdak(~Thunderbi@user/prdak) prdak
2025-07-21 10:54:10 +0200merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-07-21 10:55:24 +0200merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn
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2025-07-21 11:22:03 +0200caubert(~caubert@user/caubert) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2025-07-21 11:28:45 +0200tcard__(~tcard@2400:4051:5801:7500:cf17:befc:ff82:5303)
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2025-07-21 11:35:34 +0200prdak(~Thunderbi@user/prdak) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-07-21 11:35:55 +0200caubert(~caubert@user/caubert) caubert
2025-07-21 11:36:32 +0200vanishingideal(~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2025-07-21 11:40:59 +0200end(~end@user/end/x-0094621) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2025-07-21 11:43:49 +0200fp(~Thunderbi@wireless-86-50-140-9.open.aalto.fi) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-07-21 11:52:25 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) Tuplanolla
2025-07-21 11:56:07 +0200sus0(zero@user/zeromomentum) zeromomentum
2025-07-21 12:03:14 +0200poscat(~poscat@user/poscat) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2025-07-21 15:19:55 +0200 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> im trying to make a haskell WS <-> UDP proxy and the server side seems to work fine, but my client is getting stuck, it is able to receive one UDP datagram, sends it over the WS connection and then hangs, see https://paste.tomsmeding.com/tFghrTMr
2025-07-21 15:20:26 +0200 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> it manages to get push the "recvFrom" once, it sends the data over the WS and then once it reaches "recvFrom" again it gets stuck there forever
2025-07-21 15:20:39 +0200 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> doesnt matterh how much data i send it, no clue why
2025-07-21 15:23:17 +0200Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2025-07-21 15:24:21 +0200 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> Ăłh wait
2025-07-21 15:24:25 +0200 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> its thi fucking mvar, nevermind
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2025-07-21 15:26:49 +0200 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> lol
2025-07-21 15:27:24 +0200vanishingideal(~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal
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2025-07-21 15:49:50 +0200ccapndave(~ccapndave@213.55.244.222) ccapndave
2025-07-21 15:58:31 +0200ystael(~ystael@user/ystael) ystael
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2025-07-21 16:04:28 +0200Smiles(uid551636@id-551636.lymington.irccloud.com) Smiles
2025-07-21 16:06:22 +0200Leary(~Leary@user/Leary/x-0910699) Leary
2025-07-21 16:08:39 +0200r-sta(~r-sta@cpc142694-benw13-2-0-cust901.16-2.cable.virginm.net)
2025-07-21 16:08:45 +0200 <r-sta> i have a really bad bug
2025-07-21 16:08:59 +0200 <r-sta> i compile it again and it works
2025-07-21 16:09:06 +0200 <r-sta> sometimes it does and sometimes it doesnt
2025-07-21 16:09:10 +0200 <r-sta> its a <<loop>>
2025-07-21 16:09:23 +0200 <r-sta> i have no idea how this can depend on different recompilations
2025-07-21 16:09:24 +0200 <r-sta> !"!!!
2025-07-21 16:09:40 +0200Digit(~user@user/digit) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-07-21 16:09:48 +0200 <r-sta> there are some parts of the code that use random numbers
2025-07-21 16:10:16 +0200 <r-sta> but i cant see how using a different random seed could result in it going into a <<loop>> only sometimes
2025-07-21 16:10:36 +0200 <r-sta> is there something like, how many times it does something that depends on if it detects a loop?
2025-07-21 16:10:44 +0200Digit(~user@user/digit) Digit
2025-07-21 16:10:57 +0200 <r-sta> like, if some of the data results in a longer sequence of computations, and its just thinking its a loop but it isnt?
2025-07-21 16:11:16 +0200 <mauke> <<loop>> isn't a loop detector
2025-07-21 16:11:37 +0200 <mauke> it's an exception thrown when a computation depends (directly or indirectly) on itself
2025-07-21 16:11:55 +0200 <mauke> > let x = x + 1 in x
2025-07-21 16:11:57 +0200 <lambdabot> *Exception: <<loop>>
2025-07-21 16:12:05 +0200 <r-sta> this cant be the case
2025-07-21 16:12:18 +0200 <r-sta> i change nothing between compilations, sometimes it does not give a loop, sometimes it does
2025-07-21 16:12:24 +0200 <r-sta> it cant be the semantics of the code
2025-07-21 16:12:36 +0200Razn0r(~quassel@94.142.208.170) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2025-07-21 16:12:37 +0200 <r-sta> im thinking it might be a case of how many evals
2025-07-21 16:12:42 +0200 <r-sta> can i turn this off somehow?
2025-07-21 16:12:59 +0200 <r-sta> :set f-number-of-loop-detection-evals=0
2025-07-21 16:13:21 +0200 <mauke> it doesn't count things
2025-07-21 16:13:36 +0200 <r-sta> i cant see how else i could get this nodeterministic behaviour
2025-07-21 16:13:46 +0200jreicher(~user@user/jreicher) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2025-07-21 16:13:49 +0200 <r-sta> unless the compiler is really messed up
2025-07-21 16:14:18 +0200 <mauke> IIRC the threaded runtime works differently
2025-07-21 16:14:28 +0200 <mauke> but that might just turn <<loop>> into a hanging thread
2025-07-21 16:14:50 +0200 <r-sta> ok so how do i have it not break in a crazy way
2025-07-21 16:15:00 +0200 <r-sta> im getting a sore neck from this
2025-07-21 16:15:19 +0200ccapndave(~ccapndave@213.55.244.222) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2025-07-21 16:15:23 +0200 <r-sta> iv never had such a rediculous bug, its taken me like 20hrs to debug its driving me mad
2025-07-21 16:15:41 +0200 <r-sta> i have checked the code over and over, there are no forward references
2025-07-21 16:15:52 +0200 <r-sta> and this non-determinism seems to convince me that its not my code
2025-07-21 16:16:04 +0200 <r-sta> its something really seriously broken
2025-07-21 16:16:38 +0200 <r-sta> there is no way i can reproduce it in a smaller code block
2025-07-21 16:16:43 +0200 <r-sta> i have no idea whats causing it
2025-07-21 16:16:50 +0200 <__monty__> Have you tried setting the seeds for all the RNGs?
2025-07-21 16:17:22 +0200 <r-sta> there is one unsafeperformIO that gets a randomRIO into a pure form which i could turn off
2025-07-21 16:17:43 +0200 <r-sta> i really fail to see how that could result in the loop though, but its the only way it could opperate differently between compilations
2025-07-21 16:18:44 +0200Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2025-07-21 16:18:58 +0200 <r-sta> and even if that were the case, how can that result in a <<loop>> *sometimes* !?
2025-07-21 16:19:36 +0200 <mauke> let x = if coinFlip then x + 1 else 42
2025-07-21 16:19:58 +0200 <int-e> mauke: good one
2025-07-21 16:21:01 +0200 <r-sta> ah fair
2025-07-21 16:21:20 +0200 <r-sta> ok, so with some choice of seed it works and with one choice i found it hits the loop
2025-07-21 16:21:27 +0200 <r-sta> so at least its reproducable now
2025-07-21 16:21:35 +0200 <int-e> Yeah wrapping randomRIO in unsafePerformIO sounds like a terrible idea. Because the compiler *will* treat it as a pure function whenever it recognizes that you call it several times with the same arguments.
2025-07-21 16:21:36 +0200 <r-sta> that should at least help my debugging
2025-07-21 16:21:40 +0200 <r-sta> *sheesh*
2025-07-21 16:21:45 +0200 <r-sta> it was driving me *crazy*
2025-07-21 16:22:03 +0200YoungFrog(~youngfrog@39.129-180-91.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) (Quit: ZNC 1.7.x-git-3-96481995 - https://znc.in)
2025-07-21 16:22:06 +0200Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-07-21 16:22:26 +0200 <int-e> mauke's example is better though in that it doesn't even need the compiler to do that
2025-07-21 16:22:43 +0200 <r-sta> yeah, i can see how it could hit a looping branch on a data dependant way
2025-07-21 16:22:45 +0200 <r-sta> thanks
2025-07-21 16:23:17 +0200 <r-sta> are there any fancy ways i can locate the point in the code where the loop is though?
2025-07-21 16:24:09 +0200YoungFrog(~youngfrog@2a02:a03f:ca07:f900:370f:ab1f:208a:3fc) youngfrog
2025-07-21 16:26:28 +0200Square3(~Square4@user/square) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-07-21 16:26:31 +0200humasect(~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) humasect
2025-07-21 16:27:52 +0200Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2025-07-21 16:30:33 +0200 <r-sta> rrg, it seems to depend on the parametrization
2025-07-21 16:30:35 +0200 <__monty__> Whenever it's hard to find a minimal reproducer it's usually a safe bet that your code's the issue and not the compiler.
2025-07-21 16:30:37 +0200 <r-sta> this is totally hopeless
2025-07-21 16:30:56 +0200 <r-sta> yeah, sure, i didnt realise it was some random number
2025-07-21 16:31:17 +0200 <r-sta> the codebase is huge, i cant get it to behave deterministically, there must be unsafe random seeds all over the place
2025-07-21 16:31:27 +0200 <r-sta> im on windows so i dont have an easy way to grep the bug
2025-07-21 16:31:47 +0200 <r-sta> i just want it to point to where the <<loop>> is
2025-07-21 16:31:51 +0200 <EvanR> kids this is why we use purely functional programming
2025-07-21 16:32:23 +0200 <EvanR> instead of expressions whose value is random each time you look at it
2025-07-21 16:32:43 +0200 <r-sta> yeah, but still, there is not great support for this *runtime* error
2025-07-21 16:32:58 +0200 <r-sta> i should be able to get my code to be nondeterministic without it ruining my life
2025-07-21 16:33:45 +0200 <r-sta> it takes like 5 minutes to compile!
2025-07-21 16:33:50 +0200 <EvanR> if you disregard the most basic assumptions of haskell I don't expect good things to happen
2025-07-21 16:33:57 +0200 <int-e> well, randomness is a type of state.
2025-07-21 16:34:39 +0200 <EvanR> yeah, there are more or less painful ways to properly include "non-determinism" in the program
2025-07-21 16:34:43 +0200 <r-sta> i thought i might happen uppon a nice initialization by chance... *sigh*
2025-07-21 16:34:44 +0200 <int-e> So... you gotta bite some bullet. A monad, or careful manual passing of a splittable RNG into your pure functions. Or, in easy cases, just an infinite list of generated vlaues.
2025-07-21 16:35:12 +0200 <int-e> But "I have this pure code, now I want to make a part of it random" just is a no-go in Haskell.
2025-07-21 16:35:16 +0200 <r-sta> ok, iv recompiled so i can run it in ghci to try and use break-on-error
2025-07-21 16:35:49 +0200 <EvanR> when you try to make pure code act non-purely, the debugging is hellish, as you are discovering
2025-07-21 16:36:06 +0200 <r-sta> ghci> :trace main
2025-07-21 16:36:06 +0200 <r-sta> Stopped in <exception thrown>, <unknown>
2025-07-21 16:36:07 +0200 <r-sta> _exception :: e = _
2025-07-21 16:36:16 +0200 <r-sta> such informative!
2025-07-21 16:36:42 +0200 <mauke> hah
2025-07-21 16:36:51 +0200 <r-sta> ... [<unknown>] ghci> :back
2025-07-21 16:36:51 +0200 <r-sta> no more logged breakpoints
2025-07-21 16:37:24 +0200 <r-sta> idk wtf im doing im going spare
2025-07-21 16:37:36 +0200int-ewould probably just comment out the problematic randomRIO-wrapping function to collect a list of uses. Maybe rename it so if a call site looks uncritical, it can be "fixed" by adding a TODO using the replacement.
2025-07-21 16:37:40 +0200 <mauke> I've never used this stuff. can you print _exception?
2025-07-21 16:38:18 +0200 <int-e> adding a TODO *and* using the replacement (renamed function)
2025-07-21 16:38:47 +0200 <mauke> actually, ':force _exception' and ':show context' may be relevant?
2025-07-21 16:38:53 +0200 <r-sta> yeah, if i could even find where the damn unsafePerformIO calls are being made!
2025-07-21 16:39:00 +0200 <int-e> grep?
2025-07-21 16:39:05 +0200 <r-sta> windows...
2025-07-21 16:39:23 +0200 <EvanR> may all your functions be total, either explicitly or because of certain inputs or states of your algorithm are provably impossible
2025-07-21 16:39:32 +0200 <r-sta> id rather just keep all the nondeterminism and actually locate where the loop occurs
2025-07-21 16:39:34 +0200 <int-e> grep for windows then ;-)
2025-07-21 16:39:42 +0200 <mauke> findstr?
2025-07-21 16:40:07 +0200 <int-e> . o O ( git grep :-P )
2025-07-21 16:40:09 +0200 <__monty__> Can't you grep from Windows' Linux shell?
2025-07-21 16:40:26 +0200 <EvanR> search your code using the IDE
2025-07-21 16:40:33 +0200 <r-sta> i use wordpad
2025-07-21 16:40:43 +0200 <EvanR> are we trying to make this as hard as possible
2025-07-21 16:40:44 +0200 <int-e> to me string finding is such a fundamental (even though crude and basic) developer tool...
2025-07-21 16:40:56 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-07-21 16:41:02 +0200 <r-sta> EvanR it has never failed me in the last 18 years
2025-07-21 16:41:03 +0200 <mauke> wordpad?!
2025-07-21 16:41:09 +0200 <mauke> real programmers use powerpoint
2025-07-21 16:41:10 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-07-21 16:41:11 +0200 <EvanR> haskell with unsafe randomness + windows + no programming editor
2025-07-21 16:41:22 +0200 <EvanR> sounds like a recipe for success
2025-07-21 16:41:24 +0200 <r-sta> >:-|
2025-07-21 16:41:42 +0200 <r-sta> not the ghc teams fault for not giving loop breakpoint lines or anything
2025-07-21 16:41:55 +0200 <__monty__> No need for jokes at anyone's expense. Let's brainstorm a way forward.
2025-07-21 16:42:02 +0200 <EvanR> you think debugging is hard right now, don't look at older versions of GHC
2025-07-21 16:42:22 +0200 <EvanR> you didn't even have HasCallstack
2025-07-21 16:42:23 +0200 <int-e> r-sta: the RTS is entering a black hole that basically has no info about how it was initially created
2025-07-21 16:42:40 +0200 <r-sta> so what do i do?
2025-07-21 16:42:48 +0200 <r-sta> can i step through line by line?
2025-07-21 16:42:53 +0200 <int-e> despair, but you're already doing that
2025-07-21 16:42:59 +0200 <r-sta> quite adeptly
2025-07-21 16:43:08 +0200 <EvanR> haskell doesn't evaluate line by line, it's lazy
2025-07-21 16:43:11 +0200 <__monty__> I think int-e's suggestion is the most promising so far. Rename the function and the compiler will complain about where it's used.
2025-07-21 16:43:30 +0200 <EvanR> which means even more importance on pure functional techniques
2025-07-21 16:43:31 +0200 <r-sta> i dont know which function it is
2025-07-21 16:43:40 +0200 <r-sta> all i was saying is that there was a RIO
2025-07-21 16:43:43 +0200 <int-e> well, neither does ghci
2025-07-21 16:43:56 +0200 <__monty__> r-sta: The one(s) you use unsafePerformIO in.
2025-07-21 16:44:08 +0200 <r-sta> it breaks deterministically *enough* now iv found *most* of the unsafe randomRIO seeds
2025-07-21 16:44:16 +0200 <mauke> we're debugging <<loop>> now
2025-07-21 16:44:21 +0200 <r-sta> sry
2025-07-21 16:44:32 +0200 <r-sta> i would share my code but its HUGE
2025-07-21 16:44:34 +0200 <__monty__> r-sta: Ripgrep claims to support Windows FWIW.
2025-07-21 16:45:13 +0200 <r-sta> installation via chocolatey
2025-07-21 16:45:26 +0200 <int-e> I'm serious. You can maybe figure out who forced the closure that results in <<loop>>. There are profiling info based stack traces that should tell you that. But figuring out where that closure was created... well if you're lucky it's nearby the use. But it may be somewhere entirely different. Lazy evaluation *is* tricky.
2025-07-21 16:45:45 +0200 <r-sta> okok
2025-07-21 16:45:58 +0200 <r-sta> "profiling info based stack traces"
2025-07-21 16:46:00 +0200 <r-sta> sounds good
2025-07-21 16:46:36 +0200 <int-e> My personal approach to debugging <<loop>>-s is to test thoroughly so that I find them early enough that I can blame my most recently added code for going wrong. (Doesn't always work, of course, and if it doesn't it's kind of painful.)
2025-07-21 16:46:47 +0200 <r-sta> looping function is called, program breaks, identify looping function, fix badly named variable, sorted
2025-07-21 16:47:15 +0200 <EvanR> variable shadowing
2025-07-21 16:47:17 +0200 <r-sta> int-e: i spent hours adding Show instances all over the place last night
2025-07-21 16:47:30 +0200 <r-sta> i can kind of almost see where it was going wrong
2025-07-21 16:47:42 +0200 <r-sta> and then the non-determinism came along and ruined everything
2025-07-21 16:47:55 +0200 <r-sta> i was like, commenting out stuff or putting undefineds
2025-07-21 16:48:07 +0200 <r-sta> and then it was like, presumably, not breaking just by random
2025-07-21 16:48:09 +0200 <r-sta> :-(
2025-07-21 16:48:15 +0200 <r-sta> i didnt know what was happening!!
2025-07-21 16:48:27 +0200 <r-sta> at least now i *know* there was non-determinism
2025-07-21 16:48:49 +0200 <int-e> My favorite <<loop>> was somewhere on haskell-cafe ages ago where somebody had code that used r,s,t as variables, and r,g,b as color values... and failed to spot the overlap :-)
2025-07-21 16:48:50 +0200 <EvanR> this is why haskell is pure, because they predicted that debugging a combination of lazy and effectful would be insane
2025-07-21 16:49:02 +0200 <EvanR> though that doesn't help with <<loop>>
2025-07-21 16:49:06 +0200 <r-sta> i think i might just throw my computer out the window, move to a new country, learn meditation techniques, invent some paradoxical SSRIs and start afresh
2025-07-21 16:49:43 +0200 <r-sta> EvarR: thats actually quite interesting
2025-07-21 16:50:04 +0200 <EvanR> colliding or shadowing variables names defeats one of the best ways the compiler can tell you about your nonsense code: variable name goes nowhere or has wrong type
2025-07-21 16:50:13 +0200 <r-sta> (anyone know the difference between an sNRI and an SNRI ?)
2025-07-21 16:50:22 +0200 <r-sta> because my GP didnt!
2025-07-21 16:50:39 +0200 <r-sta> im gona take a break before my computer loops itself down the stairs
2025-07-21 16:50:59 +0200 <r-sta> thanks for the tips. i might return for tips on stack tracing
2025-07-21 16:51:01 +0200r-sta(~r-sta@cpc142694-benw13-2-0-cust901.16-2.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-07-21 16:51:07 +0200gmg(~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Quit: Leaving)
2025-07-21 16:54:52 +0200EvanR(~EvanR@user/evanr) (Quit: Leaving)
2025-07-21 16:57:36 +0200 <merijn> int-e: This is why I started using shadow warnings everywhere
2025-07-21 16:57:43 +0200 <merijn> Shadowing is just never worth it
2025-07-21 16:59:08 +0200 <int-e> this is why I actually use the foo x | x <- x+1 = x style (in moderation)
2025-07-21 16:59:26 +0200 <int-e> the problem with just disallowing shadowing is that it doesn't prevent you from using the old value
2025-07-21 17:00:11 +0200ttybitnik(~ttybitnik@user/wolper) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-07-21 17:01:53 +0200EvanR(~EvanR@user/evanr) EvanR
2025-07-21 17:02:07 +0200 <int-e> (it's not without downsides; most notable, it doesn't work well together with `where`)
2025-07-21 17:03:41 +0200 <sprout> > let 2 + 2 = 5 in 2 + 2
2025-07-21 17:03:42 +0200 <lambdabot> 5
2025-07-21 17:04:13 +0200 <int-e> sprout: with great power comes great responsibility
2025-07-21 17:04:23 +0200 <EvanR> there are 4 lights
2025-07-21 17:04:37 +0200 <sprout> code was never meant to be executed anyway
2025-07-21 17:05:58 +0200merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-07-21 17:15:51 +0200 <EvanR> that code wasn't meant to be executed. The AST for that code we never meant to be compiled. The string containing the raw code characters was never meant to be parsed
2025-07-21 17:18:04 +0200merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn
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2025-07-21 17:23:19 +0200 <int-e> EvanR: I see you're embracing pure laziness.
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2025-07-21 20:02:42 +0200r-sta(~r-sta@cpc142694-benw13-2-0-cust901.16-2.cable.virginm.net)
2025-07-21 20:03:10 +0200 <r-sta> hi, im wondering about how to do stack traces for profiling a <<loop>> error that im stuck trying to find in a large illegible piece of code
2025-07-21 20:03:22 +0200caubert(~caubert@user/caubert) caubert
2025-07-21 20:03:49 +0200AlexNoo(~AlexNoo@5.139.233.5) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-07-21 20:03:56 +0200 <r-sta> it is part of a machine learning experiment which retrains a parametric opperator by stochastic methods
2025-07-21 20:04:18 +0200 <r-sta> i have turned off random number random entropy source so that the error is reproducable
2025-07-21 20:04:31 +0200 <r-sta> but it only occurs under some certain parametrizations
2025-07-21 20:04:45 +0200 <r-sta> i cannot understand how this causes it to go down a looping branch of code
2025-07-21 20:04:58 +0200 <r-sta> but there must be some value dependant branching that i cant locate
2025-07-21 20:05:22 +0200 <r-sta> im looking for methods to step through subsequent function calls, so i can see the name of the function that is entering into a loop
2025-07-21 20:09:29 +0200falafel(~falafel@2a0c:5a87:3104:8f01::f709) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-07-21 20:10:08 +0200jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
2025-07-21 20:10:17 +0200 <r-sta> also, is there any way that a function can "seem" to loop, but actually not
2025-07-21 20:10:50 +0200 <r-sta> like, how far down an infine list would it evaluate before determining it was looping?
2025-07-21 20:11:34 +0200 <myfirstname> All I know if is using ghci's debugger and stepping thru it
2025-07-21 20:11:34 +0200 <r-sta> the reason for asking is because the error appeared after i added this;
2025-07-21 20:11:34 +0200 <r-sta> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/3NOfOw98
2025-07-21 20:11:48 +0200 <myfirstname> know of*
2025-07-21 20:11:49 +0200 <r-sta> myfirstname: how is this done?
2025-07-21 20:12:05 +0200 <myfirstname> https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/7.4.1/docs/html/users_guide/ghci-debugger.html
2025-07-21 20:12:10 +0200 <r-sta> the above code i cant see how it could have an error, so i guess it must be somewhere else
2025-07-21 20:12:47 +0200 <myfirstname> The <<loop>> error is very frustrating and helpful though. would love a better method of handling it
2025-07-21 20:12:53 +0200 <myfirstname> unhelpful >_>
2025-07-21 20:13:09 +0200 <r-sta> ditto
2025-07-21 20:13:22 +0200 <r-sta> ok, so i just put like :break 2, and then :continue
2025-07-21 20:13:30 +0200 <r-sta> until i see something looping?
2025-07-21 20:15:21 +0200 <r-sta> hmm, if i do :break main
2025-07-21 20:15:26 +0200 <r-sta> it just says;
2025-07-21 20:15:50 +0200 <r-sta> ... [<unknown>] ghci> main
2025-07-21 20:15:51 +0200 <r-sta> Stopped in <exception thrown>, <unknown>
2025-07-21 20:15:51 +0200 <r-sta> _exception :: e = _
2025-07-21 20:16:03 +0200 <r-sta> and then :continue gives;
2025-07-21 20:16:04 +0200 <r-sta> ... [<unknown>] ghci> :continue
2025-07-21 20:16:05 +0200 <r-sta> Stopped in <exception thrown>, <unknown>
2025-07-21 20:16:05 +0200 <r-sta> _exception :: e = _
2025-07-21 20:16:06 +0200 <r-sta> ... [<unknown>] ghci>
2025-07-21 20:16:15 +0200 <myfirstname> I haven't used it much, and don't remember precisely how things work. I do remember getting it to work tho, just takes a bit of getting used to.
2025-07-21 20:16:39 +0200 <r-sta> this is utterly hopeless, i give up
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2025-07-21 20:19:22 +0200Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2025-07-21 20:23:10 +0200target_i(~target_i@user/target-i/x-6023099) target_i
2025-07-21 20:23:27 +0200 <int-e> Oh, bye. Maybe this is a problem: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/AFAPO6lK
2025-07-21 20:25:19 +0200 <int-e> . o O ( most horrible zipper )