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2025-07-07 03:16:20 +0200JayKobe6k(~jbarber@108.234.212.24)
2025-07-07 03:16:32 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@2601:447:d182:6512:c2f9:c3a:b83d:6490) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1+deb12u1 - https://znc.in)
2025-07-07 03:17:46 +0200 <JayKobe6k> Hello everyone. Is there a name for a traverse type that constrains the kind of the f result to Monad instead of just Applicative?
2025-07-07 03:19:52 +0200 <EvanR> traverse specialized to Monad will not work for you?
2025-07-07 03:20:04 +0200 <EvanR> since any Monad is an applicative
2025-07-07 03:21:15 +0200 <JayKobe6k> No, because in order to define a traverse instance it has to work for all applicative
2025-07-07 03:21:49 +0200 <JayKobe6k> I have a scenario where I have a structure that has (what I think is) a valid traverse instance, but only when you have a Monad
2025-07-07 03:22:10 +0200j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37
2025-07-07 03:25:40 +0200 <Axman6> Want to share the code?
2025-07-07 03:26:13 +0200j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-07-07 03:27:03 +0200 <Axman6> traverse doesn't need anything Monad offers, so I'd be surprised if it can't be written using just Applicative
2025-07-07 03:30:18 +0200j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37
2025-07-07 03:30:31 +0200 <JayKobe6k> Give me a minute to convert it in to haskell.. I'm working in scala (technical constraints... what I'm making has to run on the jvm)
2025-07-07 03:30:58 +0200 <geekosaur> something to consider is that before `traverse` there was `mapM`
2025-07-07 03:30:59 +0200j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-07-07 03:32:12 +0200 <JayKobe6k> I'm trying to write a scripting language using recursion schemes and need to model while loops and conditionals. And to do so the traversal needs to behave differently depending on the result of a predicate expression, which to me implies that it needs monad
2025-07-07 03:34:19 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@2601:447:d182:6512:c2f9:c3a:b83d:6490) dtman34
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2025-07-07 03:43:37 +0200 <JayKobe6k> https://gist.github.com/Jacoby6000/c9b6dedd7043933e5b5ca1199857b61b There's also an issue where I need to somehow get to a bool from the `a` on the predicates. I was planning on doing some dirty java code to work around that.
2025-07-07 03:44:39 +0200 <JayKobe6k> This is very much a work in progress. Little things are still being worked on, like invocations will be modeled as App a a eventually. Just slowly working up to that. My current hand-rolled interpreter wouldn't support it
2025-07-07 03:45:42 +0200j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37
2025-07-07 03:47:24 +0200 <JayKobe6k> Lines 26 and 27 are the ones in question in that gist
2025-07-07 03:47:41 +0200 <JayKobe6k> With a monad I can use ifM and whileM
2025-07-07 03:48:09 +0200 <JayKobe6k> Kind of thinking I'll just have to write my own specialized recursion stuff for this
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2025-07-07 03:49:21 +0200caubert(~caubert@user/caubert) caubert
2025-07-07 03:53:02 +0200 <JayKobe6k> I think I need selective functors https://simonmar.github.io/slides/Selective%20Applicative%20Functors%20%28Copenhagen%20April%20201…
2025-07-07 03:53:14 +0200j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37
2025-07-07 03:54:43 +0200 <geekosaur> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/selective
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2025-07-07 04:18:08 +0200 <Leary> JayKobe6k: Whether you're using `Applicative`, `Selective` or `Monad`, that's not going to work out---you need to `f` /all/ of your `a`s equally or you won't have the `b`s to rebuild the data. Your language's control logic really shouldn't have any bearing on the `Traversable` instance anyway, put that in a fold or `hylo` or whatever.
2025-07-07 04:19:34 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-92-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2025-07-07 04:20:45 +0200 <JayKobe6k> How would I write that in to a fold? I'm not super familiar with the unfold side of things, but afaiu there's no way to do conditional branching in a fold because the subtrees are all evaluated by the time I get to choose which branch I want
2025-07-07 04:21:58 +0200 <Leary> I assume scala supports some form of opt-in laziness.
2025-07-07 04:22:11 +0200 <JayKobe6k> Ah I see
2025-07-07 04:22:11 +0200 <Leary> Like using `() -> a` instead of `a`.
2025-07-07 04:23:02 +0200 <JayKobe6k> The typeclass lib I'm using provides an Eval a to model laziness in a nice way. I'll probably use that. Thanks for the recommendation!
2025-07-07 04:25:49 +0200j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37
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2025-07-07 04:29:30 +0200td_(~td@i53870936.versanet.de)
2025-07-07 04:32:22 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@c-73-242-68-179.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) dtman34
2025-07-07 04:32:26 +0200arahael(~arahael@user/arahael) arahael
2025-07-07 04:32:27 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-92-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-07-07 04:33:04 +0200j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-07-07 04:34:06 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2025-07-07 04:35:17 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@c-73-242-68-179.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Client Quit)
2025-07-07 04:36:41 +0200j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37
2025-07-07 04:36:56 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-92-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-07-07 04:37:15 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@c-73-242-68-179.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) dtman34
2025-07-07 04:40:57 +0200j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-07-07 04:40:59 +0200aaronv_(~aaronv@user/aaronv) aaronv
2025-07-07 04:42:06 +0200tmciver(~tim@syn-198-255-177-240.res.spectrum.com) tmciver
2025-07-07 04:42:46 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-92-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-07-07 04:43:24 +0200poscat(~poscat@user/poscat) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-07-07 04:43:49 +0200poscat(~poscat@user/poscat) poscat
2025-07-07 04:46:19 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@c-73-242-68-179.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1+deb12u1 - https://znc.in)
2025-07-07 04:46:40 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-07-07 04:46:48 +0200Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-07-07 04:48:16 +0200j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37
2025-07-07 04:51:19 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-07-07 04:56:25 +0200j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-07-07 04:57:44 +0200j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37
2025-07-07 05:00:49 +0200caubert(~caubert@user/caubert) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2025-07-07 05:01:52 +0200j1n37-(~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37
2025-07-07 05:02:20 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-07-07 05:02:54 +0200j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2025-07-07 05:03:34 +0200aaronv_(~aaronv@user/aaronv) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-07-07 05:04:06 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@c-73-242-68-179.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) dtman34
2025-07-07 05:06:00 +0200j1n37-(~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Client Quit)
2025-07-07 05:06:25 +0200jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-07-07 05:06:41 +0200aaronv_(~aaronv@user/aaronv) aaronv
2025-07-07 05:07:10 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2025-07-07 05:07:47 +0200j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37
2025-07-07 05:09:43 +0200kimjetwav(~user@2607:fea8:25a3:a100:9a03:8363:4504:2e7) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-07-07 05:12:50 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-07-07 05:12:54 +0200caubert(~caubert@user/caubert) caubert
2025-07-07 05:13:44 +0200j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-07-07 05:14:29 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-07-07 05:15:45 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@c-73-242-68-179.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1+deb12u1 - https://znc.in)
2025-07-07 05:16:15 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@2601:447:d182:6512:c2f9:c3a:b83d:6490) dtman34
2025-07-07 05:17:29 +0200caubert(~caubert@user/caubert) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2025-07-07 05:18:18 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2025-07-07 05:18:52 +0200Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2025-07-07 05:19:50 +0200j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37
2025-07-07 05:26:04 +0200caubert(~caubert@user/caubert) caubert
2025-07-07 05:28:10 +0200trickard_trickard
2025-07-07 05:32:18 +0200j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-07-07 05:35:23 +0200j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37
2025-07-07 05:41:44 +0200j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-07-07 05:44:34 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@2601:447:d182:6512:c2f9:c3a:b83d:6490) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1+deb12u1 - https://znc.in)
2025-07-07 05:44:50 +0200j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37
2025-07-07 05:46:58 +0200JayKobe6k(~jbarber@108.234.212.24) (Quit: WeeChat 4.6.3)
2025-07-07 05:48:07 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@c-73-242-68-179.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) dtman34
2025-07-07 05:53:05 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@c-73-242-68-179.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1+deb12u1 - https://znc.in)
2025-07-07 05:53:26 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@c-73-242-68-179.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) dtman34
2025-07-07 05:53:28 +0200ZLima12(~zlima12@user/meow/ZLima12) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2025-07-07 05:54:37 +0200ZLima12(~zlima12@user/meow/ZLima12) ZLima12
2025-07-07 05:54:42 +0200aaronv_(~aaronv@user/aaronv) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2025-07-07 05:55:25 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-07-07 05:57:08 +0200j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-07-07 05:59:09 +0200ZLima12(~zlima12@user/meow/ZLima12) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-07-07 05:59:10 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@c-73-242-68-179.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1+deb12u1 - https://znc.in)
2025-07-07 05:59:47 +0200ZLima12(~zlima12@user/meow/ZLima12) ZLima12
2025-07-07 05:59:50 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@2601:447:d182:6512:c2f9:c3a:b83d:6490) dtman34
2025-07-07 06:00:44 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-07-07 06:01:42 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-07-07 06:01:47 +0200j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37
2025-07-07 06:04:37 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@2601:447:d182:6512:c2f9:c3a:b83d:6490) (Client Quit)
2025-07-07 06:08:54 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-07-07 06:09:06 +0200j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-07-07 06:10:49 +0200Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2025-07-07 06:12:20 +0200j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37
2025-07-07 06:17:34 +0200j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-07-07 06:21:58 +0200j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37
2025-07-07 06:22:23 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod
2025-07-07 06:23:19 +0200j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-07-07 06:24:20 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@c-73-242-68-179.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) dtman34
2025-07-07 06:27:51 +0200j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37
2025-07-07 06:31:12 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@c-73-242-68-179.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1+deb12u1 - https://znc.in)