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2025-05-28 00:11:07 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-05-28 00:14:57 +0200 | JuanDaugherty | (~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) (Quit: praxis.meansofproduction.biz (juan@acm.org)) |
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2025-05-28 00:28:42 +0200 | target_i | (~target_i@user/target-i/x-6023099) (Quit: leaving) |
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2025-05-28 00:42:44 +0200 | biberu | (~biberu@user/biberu) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
2025-05-28 00:47:01 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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2025-05-28 00:48:39 +0200 | <EvanR> | the link to existential anti-pattern doesn't work :( |
2025-05-28 00:48:57 +0200 | <EvanR> | though I've seen it on wayback machine recently |
2025-05-28 00:51:36 +0200 | biberu | (~biberu@user/biberu) biberu |
2025-05-28 00:53:21 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-05-28 00:53:42 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-05-28 00:54:24 +0200 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
2025-05-28 00:58:22 +0200 | <EvanR> | or maybe it's gone for a reason |
2025-05-28 00:58:38 +0200 | <EvanR> | like turns out existentials are cool after all xD |
2025-05-28 01:00:23 +0200 | <monochrom> | \∩/ |
2025-05-28 01:01:18 +0200 | <monochrom> | The anti-pattern anti-pattern. The code-smell opinion smell. |
2025-05-28 01:02:06 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-05-28 01:02:27 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-05-28 01:03:33 +0200 | Square2 | (~Square@user/square) Square |
2025-05-28 01:05:28 +0200 | sprotte24 | (~sprotte24@p200300d16f362e006c438e53ebe4b26d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-05-28 01:06:35 +0200 | <sm> | @where existential-antipattern |
2025-05-28 01:06:35 +0200 | <lambdabot> | "Haskell Antipattern: Existential Typeclass" by Luke Palmer at <https://web.archive.org/web/20220121105027/https://lukepalmer.wordpress.com/2010/01/24/haskell-ant…> |
2025-05-28 01:07:19 +0200 | <sm> | working for me! |
2025-05-28 01:07:51 +0200 | <sm> | I see a bad one, drop that I guess |
2025-05-28 01:07:53 +0200 | <sm> | @where+ antipattern |
2025-05-28 01:07:53 +0200 | <lambdabot> | It is forgotten. |
2025-05-28 01:11:54 +0200 | todi | (~todi@p57803331.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
2025-05-28 01:12:05 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-05-28 01:12:25 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-05-28 01:18:57 +0200 | <EvanR> | @where parse-don't-validate |
2025-05-28 01:18:57 +0200 | <lambdabot> | "Parse, don't validate" by lexi-lambda in 2019-11-05 at <https://lexi-lambda.github.io/blog/2019/11/05/parse-don-t-validate/> |
2025-05-28 01:19:37 +0200 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
2025-05-28 01:19:39 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-05-28 01:20:00 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-05-28 01:21:24 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich |
2025-05-28 01:23:31 +0200 | Vq | (~vq@81-226-38-201-no600.tbcn.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
2025-05-28 01:26:08 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-05-28 01:26:29 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-05-28 01:30:12 +0200 | mange | (~user@user/mange) mange |
2025-05-28 01:30:22 +0200 | Vq | (~vq@81-226-38-201-no600.tbcn.telia.com) Vq |
2025-05-28 01:31:08 +0200 | <EvanR> | @where lambdacats |
2025-05-28 01:31:08 +0200 | <lambdabot> | http://lambdacats.org |
2025-05-28 01:32:10 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-05-28 01:32:31 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-05-28 01:32:40 +0200 | emmanuelux | (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) emmanuelux |
2025-05-28 01:38:27 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod |
2025-05-28 01:39:38 +0200 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) Sgeo |
2025-05-28 01:40:07 +0200 | <EvanR> | @where escaping-hell |
2025-05-28 01:40:07 +0200 | <lambdabot> | (non-tutorial teaser) "Escaping Hell with Monads" by Philip Nillson in 2017-05-08 at <https://philipnilsson.github.io/Badness10k/escaping-hell-with-monads/> |
2025-05-28 01:40:28 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-05-28 01:40:45 +0200 | <int-e> | . o O ( but now you'r stuck in a monad? ) |
2025-05-28 01:40:49 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-05-28 01:44:20 +0200 | <EvanR> | stuck in a burrito like one of those cat pictures |
2025-05-28 01:48:30 +0200 | biberu\ | (~biberu@user/biberu) biberu |
2025-05-28 01:49:55 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
2025-05-28 01:49:56 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-05-28 01:50:16 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-05-28 01:51:31 +0200 | biberu | (~biberu@user/biberu) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
2025-05-28 01:51:35 +0200 | biberu\ | biberu |
2025-05-28 01:55:22 +0200 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.) |
2025-05-28 02:01:05 +0200 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e71c4f71d1d5de29932680ec.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
2025-05-28 02:01:11 +0200 | Goodbye_Vincent1 | (cyvahl@freakshells.net) |
2025-05-28 02:02:26 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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2025-05-28 02:23:45 +0200 | YuutaW | (~YuutaW@2404:f4c0:f9c3:502::100:17b7) YuutaW |
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2025-05-28 02:33:29 +0200 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37 |
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2025-05-28 03:17:18 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich |
2025-05-28 03:24:21 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-05-28 03:24:42 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-05-28 03:30:41 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-05-28 03:31:02 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-05-28 03:38:51 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-05-28 03:39:12 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-05-28 03:40:49 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
2025-05-28 03:42:41 +0200 | <sm> | I think it's ok to freely prune dead links from @where, since they could be found again in the automatic git history if needed. Let me know if you feel otherwise. Feel free to do a little gardening every day, it's therapeutic. |
2025-05-28 03:45:20 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> I tend to do it in a private chat to keep the noise down, but interesting or controversial updates are good to do in here perhaps |
2025-05-28 03:46:16 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> @where planet-haskell |
2025-05-28 03:46:27 +0200 | <EvanR> | @where planet-haskell |
2025-05-28 03:46:27 +0200 | <lambdabot> | http://antti-juhani.kaijanaho.fi/planet-haskell/ |
2025-05-28 03:46:39 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> .. |
2025-05-28 03:46:39 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | @where+ planet-haskell |
2025-05-28 03:46:39 +0200 | <lambdabot> | It is forgotten. |
2025-05-28 03:46:50 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> .. |
2025-05-28 03:46:50 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | @where planethaskell |
2025-05-28 03:46:51 +0200 | <lambdabot> | http://antti-juhani.kaijanaho.fi/planet-haskell/ |
2025-05-28 03:46:56 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-05-28 03:46:58 +0200 | <EvanR> | .oO(where+ subtracts...) |
2025-05-28 03:47:05 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> .. |
2025-05-28 03:47:05 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | @where+ planethaskell |
2025-05-28 03:47:05 +0200 | <lambdabot> | It is forgotten. |
2025-05-28 03:47:18 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-05-28 03:47:20 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> yeah, that took me a while to figure out 😂 |
2025-05-28 03:47:48 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> ideally it would show the thing one last time when you delete |
2025-05-28 03:49:03 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> after something is deleted here, there's a 5-10m window when you can check what it was at https://haskell-links.org |
2025-05-28 03:49:16 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> .. |
2025-05-28 03:49:16 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | @where+ ibid |
2025-05-28 03:49:16 +0200 | <lambdabot> | It is forgotten. |
2025-05-28 03:52:49 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-05-28 03:53:11 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-05-28 03:57:28 +0200 | pabs3 | (~pabs3@user/pabs3) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-05-28 03:58:21 +0200 | pabs3 | (~pabs3@user/pabs3) pabs3 |
2025-05-28 04:05:05 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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2025-05-28 04:06:53 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp) |
2025-05-28 04:07:40 +0200 | td_ | (~td@i53870920.versanet.de) td_ |
2025-05-28 04:12:05 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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2025-05-28 04:57:05 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-05-28 05:02:48 +0200 | td_ | (~td@i53870920.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
2025-05-28 05:04:43 +0200 | td_ | (~td@i5387090E.versanet.de) td_ |
2025-05-28 05:04:56 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-05-28 05:05:19 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-05-28 05:07:33 +0200 | zzz | (~z@user/zero) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
2025-05-28 05:08:50 +0200 | yin | (~z@user/zero) zero |
2025-05-28 05:12:14 +0200 | foul_owl | (~kerry@94.156.149.92) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
2025-05-28 05:22:20 +0200 | DrachenMaus | (~dragonmau@user/dragonmaus) (Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.) |
2025-05-28 05:22:27 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
2025-05-28 05:23:10 +0200 | DragonMaus | (~dragonmau@user/dragonmaus) DragonMaus |
2025-05-28 05:25:44 +0200 | foul_owl | (~kerry@94.156.149.92) foul_owl |
2025-05-28 05:25:51 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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2025-05-28 06:57:08 +0200 | Lord_of_Life_ | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) Lord_of_Life |
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2025-05-28 06:58:31 +0200 | Lord_of_Life_ | Lord_of_Life |
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2025-05-28 07:59:13 +0200 | Axma82850 | Axman6 |
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2025-05-28 08:12:22 +0200 | haritz | (~hrtz@user/haritz) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1+deb12u1 - https://znc.in) |
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2025-05-28 08:26:46 +0200 | fp | (~Thunderbi@2001:708:20:1406::10c5) fp |
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2025-05-28 08:50:18 +0200 | emmanuelux | (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) (Quit: au revoir) |
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2025-05-28 09:00:41 +0200 | caconym7 | (~caconym@user/caconym) caconym |
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2025-05-28 09:25:51 +0200 | sord937 | (~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) sord937 |
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2025-05-28 09:41:53 +0200 | sord937 | (~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-05-28 09:42:15 +0200 | sord937 | (~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) sord937 |
2025-05-28 09:42:39 +0200 | chele | (~chele@user/chele) chele |
2025-05-28 09:44:30 +0200 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
2025-05-28 09:44:42 +0200 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-05-28 09:47:00 +0200 | ft | (~ft@p3e9bc106.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: leaving) |
2025-05-28 09:48:02 +0200 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e71c4f128d29b950d20b1255.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk |
2025-05-28 09:54:11 +0200 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) CiaoSen |
2025-05-28 09:54:36 +0200 | lxsameer | (~lxsameer@Serene/lxsameer) lxsameer |
2025-05-28 09:56:58 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-05-28 09:57:19 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-05-28 09:58:20 +0200 | sord937 | (~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-05-28 09:58:32 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod |
2025-05-28 09:58:39 +0200 | sord937 | (~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) sord937 |
2025-05-28 10:02:16 +0200 | Everything | (~Everythin@77.120.244.38) Everything |
2025-05-28 10:06:34 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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2025-05-28 10:10:45 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | EvanR: more than cat burritos, have owl burritos https://owlsintowels.org/ |
2025-05-28 10:15:06 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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2025-05-28 10:16:02 +0200 | __monty__ | (~toonn@user/toonn) toonn |
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2025-05-28 10:20:02 +0200 | oskarw | (~user@194.29.137.22) |
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2025-05-28 10:20:23 +0200 | oskarw` | (~user@194.29.137.22) |
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2025-05-28 10:21:12 +0200 | oskarw | (~user@user/oskarw) oskarw |
2025-05-28 10:22:24 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp) |
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2025-05-28 10:28:11 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn |
2025-05-28 10:28:20 +0200 | oskarw | (~user@user/oskarw) oskarw |
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2025-05-28 10:38:01 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:6079:2a03:d656:1a2e) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
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2025-05-28 10:50:46 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-05-28 10:52:52 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn |
2025-05-28 10:55:23 +0200 | ubert | (~Thunderbi@2a02:8109:abb3:7000:b3bd:bf5a:1fc5:21e8) ubert |
2025-05-28 11:00:28 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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2025-05-28 11:05:31 +0200 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!) |
2025-05-28 11:15:55 +0200 | <oskarw> | Hi, is there situation where I should use ghci over cabal-repl? I just found out that ghci can't use -threaded option, because its interpreter, and cabal-repl can, because it compiles code. |
2025-05-28 11:17:03 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-05-28 11:17:26 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-05-28 11:20:53 +0200 | <oskarw> | I don't know how, but haskell-mode in emacs didn't found my .cabal file in my project and was opening ghci like it should be https://haskell.github.io/haskell-mode/manual/latest/REPL.html |
2025-05-28 11:21:08 +0200 | <oskarw> | Was opening ghci instead of cabal-repl |
2025-05-28 11:22:50 +0200 | tzh | (~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz) |
2025-05-28 11:24:59 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-05-28 11:25:20 +0200 | <oskarw> | Does anybody here uses haskell-ts-mode and want to say how much they like it? |
2025-05-28 11:25:23 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-05-28 11:37:06 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | whenever you're in a cabal package/project, you should use `cabal repl` because ghci doesn't pick up on the project configuration |
2025-05-28 11:38:03 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
2025-05-28 11:40:04 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn |
2025-05-28 11:41:23 +0200 | <oskarw> | tomsmeding: ok, I will keep that in mind |
2025-05-28 11:42:06 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-05-28 11:42:27 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
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2025-05-28 11:44:49 +0200 | fp | (~Thunderbi@wireless-86-50-140-9.open.aalto.fi) fp |
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2025-05-28 11:56:21 +0200 | spk | (~spk@2405:201:e02d:902f:47b2:524d:9d9e:d2f4) |
2025-05-28 11:56:56 +0200 | lortabac | (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:55ab:e185:7f81:54a4) (Quit: WeeChat 4.5.2) |
2025-05-28 11:57:09 +0200 | spk | (~spk@2405:201:e02d:902f:47b2:524d:9d9e:d2f4) (Client Quit) |
2025-05-28 11:57:43 +0200 | spk-Guest24 | (~spk-Guest@2405:201:e02d:902f:47b2:524d:9d9e:d2f4) |
2025-05-28 11:58:28 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-05-28 11:58:47 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-05-28 12:06:37 +0200 | <spk-Guest24> | hello all, I have a question about creating a law-abiding lens. Basically, I want the `over` function to accept an `(Int, String)` but update only the `String` part (the `Int` is just extra, read-only context). So, I thought I could set up a lens of the type `Lens (Int, String) (Int, String) (Int, String) String`. |
2025-05-28 12:06:54 +0200 | <spk-Guest24> | However, I don't know how to check the lens laws for this, since get-put and put-get seem to expect `a ~ b` whereas `a` and `b` are different here. Is my lens a valid lens in the first place? If so, any ideas on how to check its laws? If not, is there some other way I can solve this kind of problem within the lenses paradigm? Thanks |
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2025-05-28 12:37:21 +0200 | LainIwakura | (~LainIwaku@user/LainIwakura) LainIwakura |
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2025-05-28 13:06:08 +0200 | Guest4 | (~Guest4@193.110.182.11) |
2025-05-28 13:07:41 +0200 | fp | (~Thunderbi@wireless-86-50-140-9.open.aalto.fi) fp |
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2025-05-28 13:32:16 +0200 | fp1 | fp |
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2025-05-28 13:34:36 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn |
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2025-05-28 13:44:52 +0200 | tomboy64 | (~tomboy64@user/tomboy64) tomboy64 |
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2025-05-28 13:48:40 +0200 | JuanDaugherty | (~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) JuanDaugherty |
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2025-05-28 14:03:39 +0200 | <kaol> | Lens seem to compose the wrong way to me. Writing the outermost thing first always trips me. In every other context the first function is associated with the return value. |
2025-05-28 14:09:03 +0200 | poscat0x04 | (~poscat@user/poscat) poscat |
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2025-05-28 16:06:36 +0200 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) CiaoSen |
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2025-05-28 16:23:19 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
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2025-05-28 16:38:16 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-05-28 16:42:38 +0200 | <EvanR> | ok I'll bite. What exactly is "a singleton" |
2025-05-28 16:43:25 +0200 | <EvanR> | is data T a where A :: T Int; B :: T Float a singleton |
2025-05-28 16:43:41 +0200 | <EvanR> | is data Z (no constructors) a singleton |
2025-05-28 16:44:35 +0200 | <nitrix> | You need a single instance and it needs to break referential transparency, so unsafePerformIO + IORef. |
2025-05-28 16:46:16 +0200 | <nitrix> | I don't think the classical Singleton is reproducible in Haskell. StateT perhaps, but it's not as "globally" accessible as a singleton normally is. |
2025-05-28 16:46:26 +0200 | <EvanR> | no that's C++ singleton |
2025-05-28 16:47:02 +0200 | <nitrix> | Or Java's singleton, or PHP's singleton, or ... |
2025-05-28 16:47:06 +0200 | <EvanR> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/singletons |
2025-05-28 16:47:07 +0200 | <Leary> | EvanR: A type with a single non-bottom value, or that value, the two being loosely identified. |
2025-05-28 16:47:17 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:5da2:ba0:a157:afb4) |
2025-05-28 16:47:28 +0200 | <nitrix> | Dependently typed, ah. Well that's an unfortunate name. |
2025-05-28 16:48:05 +0200 | <EvanR> | Z above has no values so it's not a singleton? T Int has "one value" so it's a singleton? |
2025-05-28 16:48:12 +0200 | <Leary> | Yes. |
2025-05-28 16:48:43 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-05-28 16:48:44 +0200 | <EvanR> | and A and B "are singletons" too, despite being a different species of thing? |
2025-05-28 16:48:44 +0200 | <Leary> | It comes (I presume) from "singleton set", which is any set of cardinality 1. |
2025-05-28 16:49:02 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-05-28 16:49:06 +0200 | <Leary> | When "loosely identifying", yes. |
2025-05-28 16:49:12 +0200 | <EvanR> | wild |
2025-05-28 16:49:37 +0200 | <EvanR> | since T has multiple constructors I wouldn't have guess it was singleton related |
2025-05-28 16:49:47 +0200 | <Leary> | I mean, the whole idea is to pretend we have values at the type level. |
2025-05-28 16:50:06 +0200 | <EvanR> | what about data kinds |
2025-05-28 16:50:10 +0200 | Shsl-Junko-POSER | (~Shsl-Junk@50.235.208.178) |
2025-05-28 16:50:14 +0200 | <EvanR> | do those count as singletons |
2025-05-28 16:50:17 +0200 | <EvanR> | despite not being values |
2025-05-28 16:50:34 +0200 | spew | (~spew@135.233.119.40) () |
2025-05-28 16:51:56 +0200 | <EvanR> | I'll stop asking questions and just call out absurdity if I find a singleton has cardinality other than 1 |
2025-05-28 16:52:04 +0200 | <Leary> | Uhh. They're kinda orthogonal, just a useful tool to actually create some structure at the type level. |
2025-05-28 16:53:32 +0200 | <EvanR> | well it corresponds directly to "pretend we have values at type level" since it literally promotes values to types |
2025-05-28 16:55:56 +0200 | <Leary> | They relate on a conceptual level, but are independent of actual singleton-ness. |
2025-05-28 16:56:10 +0200 | <EvanR> | nitrix, instead of unsafePerformIO + IORef, try (carefully implemented unsafePerformIO + IVar) then it doesn't break RT |
2025-05-28 16:56:43 +0200 | <nitrix> | o: |
2025-05-28 16:57:31 +0200 | <EvanR> | if I wrote data T a where A :: T Int; B :: T Float; C :: T Int, would I be violating singleton-ness, and are there consequences |
2025-05-28 16:57:52 +0200 | <EvanR> | what do I break |
2025-05-28 16:57:59 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-05-28 16:58:09 +0200 | <Leary> | "singletonicity" |
2025-05-28 16:58:21 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-05-28 16:58:23 +0200 | Shsl-Junko-POSER | (~Shsl-Junk@50.235.208.178) (Quit: Client closed) |
2025-05-28 16:58:44 +0200 | <EvanR> | it seems like I could still implement TestEquality correctly on T |
2025-05-28 16:59:18 +0200 | <EvanR> | or in a way that doesn't explode |
2025-05-28 16:59:37 +0200 | amadaluzia | (~amadaluzi@user/amadaluzia) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
2025-05-28 17:00:30 +0200 | <Leary> | It just means that `A` and `C` aren't distinguished on the type level, so the information of which one you're dealing with isn't there, and you can't have the compiler verify facts about it. |
2025-05-28 17:00:56 +0200 | <Leary> | It's just jumping out of pretend dependent-types land and back into regular Haskell; nothing's gonna explode. |
2025-05-28 17:03:13 +0200 | <EvanR> | nice |
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2025-05-28 18:47:30 +0200 | <absence> | Is there something I can add to test1 to require that constraints on g should "propagate" to f, so that test3 compiles? https://play.haskell.org/saved/5pSDuinu |
2025-05-28 18:48:42 +0200 | <geekosaur> | you would need to specify the `Functor` constraint |
2025-05-28 18:48:43 +0200 | jle` | (~jle`@2603:8001:3b00:11:cbf7:2c80:8f8:480c) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
2025-05-28 18:48:59 +0200 | <absence> | That's what I was hoping to avoid... |
2025-05-28 18:49:16 +0200 | jle` | (~jle`@2603:8001:3b00:11:3b41:97f4:1903:c327) jle` |
2025-05-28 18:49:34 +0200 | <geekosaur> | you cannot say "all possible constraints", because in general Haskell must provide a witness to the required constraint (in ghc this witness is the instance record containing the specific method definitions) |
2025-05-28 18:51:39 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-05-28 18:52:00 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-05-28 18:52:12 +0200 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
2025-05-28 18:54:37 +0200 | <absence> | I had imagined that test3 would pass a dictionary for Functor f to test1, which then would somehow forward it, and it would all check out. Is there something I'm missing that makes it impossible in general, or is it "just" a matter of Haskell not having the syntax to express it? |
2025-05-28 18:57:56 +0200 | <geekosaur> | that's just not how typeclasses work |
2025-05-28 18:58:44 +0200 | <geekosaur> | there are various advanced tricks possible, but in general typeclasses just aren't what you want here |
2025-05-28 18:59:46 +0200 | <geekosaur> | you can use `IfCxt` to reify `Dict`s IIRC, and then you can do some things with them, but there are strict limits |
2025-05-28 19:01:18 +0200 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
2025-05-28 19:06:39 +0200 | <geekosaur> | interestingly, about the time you asked this a full answer appeared on the Discord Haskell channel https://paste.tomsmeding.com/40pDrdx2 |
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2025-05-28 19:10:20 +0200 | <absence> | Hmm I see, thanks! |
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2025-05-28 20:04:14 +0200 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) Tuplanolla |
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2025-05-28 20:07:39 +0200 | <EvanR> | should this be possible or impossible :: (forall a . Elem a as -> b) -> Int -> Maybe b |
2025-05-28 20:07:59 +0200 | <EvanR> | I guess it's impossible because it seems to want the result being Nothing or Just to depend on the choice of as |
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2025-05-28 20:52:09 +0200 | rvalue- | (~rvalue@user/rvalue) rvalue |
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2025-05-28 20:54:56 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-05-28 20:57:09 +0200 | rvalue- | rvalue |
2025-05-28 20:58:52 +0200 | Everything | (~Everythin@77.120.244.38) (Quit: leaving) |
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2025-05-28 21:25:31 +0200 | JuanDaugherty | ColinRobinson |
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2025-05-28 21:36:22 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich |
2025-05-28 21:36:33 +0200 | ColinRobinson | (~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) (Quit: praxis.meansofproduction.biz (juan@acm.org)) |
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2025-05-28 21:55:48 +0200 | Otong | (~Otong@user/Otong) Otong |
2025-05-28 21:58:06 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-05-28 21:59:12 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-05-28 21:59:34 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-05-28 22:00:19 +0200 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
2025-05-28 22:02:04 +0200 | <bwe> | If I have a function with return type `IO [a]` why can't I use `each :: (Monad m, Foldable f) => f a -> Stream (Of a) m ()` from Streaming.Prelude to produce a stream? https://hackage.haskell.org/package/streaming-0.2.4.0/docs/Streaming-Prelude.html#v:each Is it because IO only returns the list once it has been completely evaluated (even if the list itself is created lazily)? |
2025-05-28 22:02:08 +0200 | sord937 | (~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) (Quit: sord937) |
2025-05-28 22:02:54 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
2025-05-28 22:03:55 +0200 | <Rembane> | That IO isn't Foldable could be a reason |
2025-05-28 22:06:07 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-05-28 22:06:29 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-05-28 22:07:38 +0200 | <EvanR> | function returning IO [a]... |
2025-05-28 22:07:43 +0200 | <EvanR> | "function" isn't foldable |
2025-05-28 22:08:21 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
2025-05-28 22:09:11 +0200 | <bwe> | …then would `g :: Foldable f => IO f a` be it? |
2025-05-28 22:09:33 +0200 | <EvanR> | but also yes, IO [a] will only return a list when the I/O action is over |
2025-05-28 22:09:55 +0200 | <EvanR> | IO only takes 1 argument |
2025-05-28 22:10:34 +0200 | <EvanR> | what is 'f' |
2025-05-28 22:10:57 +0200 | <EvanR> | ok, List |
2025-05-28 22:11:01 +0200 | <bwe> | :) |
2025-05-28 22:11:09 +0200 | <EvanR> | IO (f a) is the correct parens here |
2025-05-28 22:11:28 +0200 | <bwe> | `g :: Foldable f => IO (f a)` |
2025-05-28 22:11:46 +0200 | <EvanR> | that doesn't match the argument type of each |
2025-05-28 22:11:50 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-05-28 22:12:09 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-05-28 22:12:26 +0200 | <EvanR> | (right now there are two 'f's in play) |
2025-05-28 22:13:53 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-05-28 22:15:34 +0200 | <EvanR> | things you can pass into each... list of a, vector of a, Map k of a, Set of a, ... |
2025-05-28 22:16:02 +0200 | <bwe> | S.each <$> g :: IO _ -- S.each takes `f a` and `g` produces a `IO (f a)` |
2025-05-28 22:16:16 +0200 | <EvanR> | ok you fmapped it |
2025-05-28 22:16:38 +0200 | <EvanR> | so it's an IO action producing a Stream |
2025-05-28 22:18:10 +0200 | <bwe> | IO does only return the full list if it's returning a list -- so I cannot run away from switching from inserting a Stream layer into underneath the IO layer, right? |
2025-05-28 22:18:43 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
2025-05-28 22:22:04 +0200 | <bwe> | Why does IO only return the list once it is evaluated completely and not lazily? Why doesn't it stream it by default? |
2025-05-28 22:22:27 +0200 | <EvanR> | it's not up to IO it's up to how you constructed that IO |
2025-05-28 22:22:44 +0200 | <EvanR> | e.g. readFile does produce a lazy I/O list |
2025-05-28 22:23:20 +0200 | <EvanR> | while strict ByteString readFile produces something only after the entire file is read in |
2025-05-28 22:23:23 +0200 | <bwe> | …in that case I could fmap `each` over readFile and I'd be fine? |
2025-05-28 22:23:49 +0200 | <EvanR> | it's fine as long as there are no I/O errors down the line |
2025-05-28 22:24:23 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-05-28 22:24:33 +0200 | <bwe> | So, any IO will wait for the list to be evaluated completely if constructing the list itself depends on a strict thing? |
2025-05-28 22:24:34 +0200 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
2025-05-28 22:24:44 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-05-28 22:25:21 +0200 | <EvanR> | the list produced by readFile? |
2025-05-28 22:25:59 +0200 | <EvanR> | having a hard time parsing the question precisely |
2025-05-28 22:26:28 +0200 | <EvanR> | there's a lot of details to be assumed in this area |
2025-05-28 22:27:18 +0200 | <EvanR> | yahb is probably capable of demonstrating some phenomena |
2025-05-28 22:27:36 +0200 | <int-e> | unsafeInterleaveIO is a mechanism by which an IO action can be deferred until a particular value is demanded. So readFile :: FilePath -> IO String can return a list that triggers such deferred IO actions. |
2025-05-28 22:27:57 +0200 | anselmschueler | (~quassel@user/schuelermine) schuelermine |
2025-05-28 22:27:57 +0200 | <int-e> | despite the fact that the `readFile` IO action itself is complete |
2025-05-28 22:28:54 +0200 | <int-e> | bwe: if you analyze it like that there's no contradiction between "IO [a] will only return a list when the I/O action is over" and `readFile` doing "lazy IO". |
2025-05-28 22:29:29 +0200 | <int-e> | Which I think is the confusion here? |
2025-05-28 22:29:33 +0200 | <int-e> | Context is hard. |
2025-05-28 22:29:43 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-05-28 22:29:43 +0200 | <EvanR> | % (pure (repeat 7) :: IO [Int]) >>= print . take 7 |
2025-05-28 22:29:43 +0200 | <yahb2> | [7,7,7,7,7,7,7] |
2025-05-28 22:29:58 +0200 | <EvanR> | just because it's IO doesn't mean the entire list is evaluated ^ |
2025-05-28 22:30:21 +0200 | <EvanR> | it's really up to what the IO does |
2025-05-28 22:30:23 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-05-28 22:30:43 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-05-28 22:31:47 +0200 | <int-e> | % import System.IO.Unsafe |
2025-05-28 22:31:48 +0200 | <yahb2> | <no output> |
2025-05-28 22:31:55 +0200 | <int-e> | % let sevens = (:) <$> pure 7 <*> unsafeInterleaveIO sevens in take 7 <$> sevens |
2025-05-28 22:31:55 +0200 | <yahb2> | [7,7,7,7,7,7,7] |
2025-05-28 22:32:06 +0200 | <int-e> | % let sevens = (:) <$> pure 7 <*> sevens in take 7 <$> sevens |
2025-05-28 22:32:07 +0200 | <yahb2> | <interactive>: Unable to commit 1048576 bytes of memory ; <interactive>: Exiting. The system might be out of memory. |
2025-05-28 22:34:29 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
2025-05-28 22:37:19 +0200 | <EvanR> | pure (:) <*> pure 7 <*> sevens, to even get started looking at this list it has two complete 3 obvious IO actions in sequence, and one of them might / does have to do its own IO before it completes, and so on |
2025-05-28 22:39:26 +0200 | <EvanR> | and unsafeInterleaveIO completes early setting up a "promise" to be redeemed by whatever looks at its result next, if anything |
2025-05-28 22:41:01 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod |
2025-05-28 22:42:41 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-05-28 22:43:02 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-05-28 22:45:29 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-05-28 22:45:49 +0200 | <bwe> | int-e: so, sort of like `[IO a, IO a, IO a]` is mocked as IO [a] but being lazy? |
2025-05-28 22:47:22 +0200 | econo_ | (uid147250@id-147250.tinside.irccloud.com) |
2025-05-28 22:48:29 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-05-28 22:48:50 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-05-28 22:49:00 +0200 | <bwe> | EvanR: "just because it's IO doesn't mean the entire list is evaluated ^" is significant - how can I tell from the return type whether IO evaluates the complete list before it returns? |
2025-05-28 22:49:30 +0200 | <EvanR> | that information is not available in types like IO [a] |
2025-05-28 22:49:44 +0200 | <bwe> | so, IO [a] could be both?! |
2025-05-28 22:50:16 +0200 | <EvanR> | hell, taking this discussion seriously [a] could be both |
2025-05-28 22:50:27 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
2025-05-28 22:50:33 +0200 | <EvanR> | (lazy I/O or not) |
2025-05-28 22:51:11 +0200 | <EvanR> | your projects conventions hopefully provide context to know if lazy I/O is going on |
2025-05-28 22:51:24 +0200 | <EvanR> | next best thing is documentation |
2025-05-28 22:52:45 +0200 | <bwe> | Of course. But it's harder if you want to interface with libraries you haven't written on your own. It's not necessarily obvious whether the IO is lazy or not. |
2025-05-28 22:53:35 +0200 | <EvanR> | bwe, re: how can I tell <erase erase erase> whether IO evaluates the complete list before it returns. If you go into the definition of the IO action and it logically must *do* IO actions to produce the list values, and there's no lazy I/O, then logically it must produce a whole list before returning |
2025-05-28 22:54:15 +0200 | <EvanR> | though the list elements still may not be fully evaluated at that point, the list structure would be |
2025-05-28 22:54:22 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-05-28 22:54:44 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-05-28 22:55:05 +0200 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
2025-05-28 22:56:13 +0200 | <EvanR> | for what it's worth, lazy I/O is not a common thing for libraries to pull on your without warning you |
2025-05-28 22:57:00 +0200 | <EvanR> | that there is a streaming library involved is probably a good hint no lazy I/O is involved because that defeats the purpose of the streaming library |
2025-05-28 22:57:24 +0200 | <bwe> | Then, it's essential to produce the list structure in a lazy I/O way while building a lazy IO. |
2025-05-28 22:57:34 +0200 | <bwe> | (And that's what a streaming library does?) |
2025-05-28 22:57:52 +0200 | <EvanR> | I would expect "streaming library" to not have any lazy I/O |
2025-05-28 22:58:33 +0200 | <EvanR> | mainly lazy I/O is useful for applications who want to play fast and loose |
2025-05-28 22:59:47 +0200 | jaror | (~jaror@5070ACC7.static.ziggozakelijk.nl) |
2025-05-28 23:00:21 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> Lazy IO is extremely hard to debug |
2025-05-28 23:00:41 +0200 | <bwe> | I mean, there are common use cases where you just pull data from some place (IO), and want to apply some function to it, without having all data in memory at once. I still find it hard how unintuitive it is for me to make the shift with Haskell into that one at a time processing. |
2025-05-28 23:01:01 +0200 | <EvanR> | there are other ways to accomplish that without resorting to lazy I/O magic |
2025-05-28 23:01:15 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-05-28 23:02:01 +0200 | <bwe> | EvanR: which are those? |
2025-05-28 23:02:09 +0200 | <[exa]> | conduit & pipes libraries |
2025-05-28 23:02:13 +0200 | <[exa]> | and well, traverse :) |
2025-05-28 23:02:14 +0200 | <EvanR> | e.g. instead of readFile :: FilePath -> IO [Char] -- returns a magic lazy I/O list, eachChar :: (Char -> IO ()) -> FilePath -> IO () -- visit each Char in the file in sequence and do something |
2025-05-28 23:02:31 +0200 | <EvanR> | where eachChar is some thing I made up that is more or less efficient |
2025-05-28 23:03:43 +0200 | <EvanR> | the intention being it doesn't load the whole file at once |
2025-05-28 23:04:26 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-05-28 23:04:39 +0200 | <bwe> | [exa]: I find Streaming simpler. |
2025-05-28 23:04:47 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-05-28 23:05:09 +0200 | <[exa]> | bwe: as in, the "streaming" prelude? |
2025-05-28 23:05:13 +0200 | <bwe> | [exa]: ... what's the buzz about traverse? |
2025-05-28 23:05:24 +0200 | <bwe> | [exa]: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/streaming |
2025-05-28 23:06:14 +0200 | Unicorn_Princess | (~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-05-28 23:07:03 +0200 | <[exa]> | yes this one is good too. A bit less universal approach but covers the usual usecase space :D |
2025-05-28 23:07:55 +0200 | <EvanR> | if you're using this, then I would suggest not using lazy I/O |
2025-05-28 23:08:06 +0200 | <EvanR> | if you want to feed in some data from a source, produce a stream, not a lazy I/O list |
2025-05-28 23:08:08 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
2025-05-28 23:08:19 +0200 | <EvanR> | then it should play well with the rest of the library |
2025-05-28 23:09:41 +0200 | <bwe> | EvanR: sorry if I was not able to convey my point - I want to use streaming but the point for me is how to take whatever IO input from some yet non-streaming library like DB stuff. |
2025-05-28 23:10:08 +0200 | <EvanR> | if you are going through a library that doesn't support streaming, you can't |
2025-05-28 23:10:25 +0200 | <[exa]> | well you can but you have to provide a bit of glue |
2025-05-28 23:10:31 +0200 | <EvanR> | but database APIs if you go close enough to the raw API, support streaming |
2025-05-28 23:11:15 +0200 | <EvanR> | [exa], like if it's this selda library which only produces whole list of results at once and no way to get 1 row at a time |
2025-05-28 23:11:19 +0200 | <[exa]> | bwe: btw is this for the selda streams? if you start the work somewhere please ping me, I'd try to find time to write some code (at least for postgres) |
2025-05-28 23:11:24 +0200 | <[exa]> | ah yes it's selda |
2025-05-28 23:11:42 +0200 | <bwe> | [exa]: yeah, it's selda |
2025-05-28 23:12:10 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> "The worst part of Haskell is its handling of JSON encoding – the Aeson library that everybody uses is quite complex to understand and use effectively. I believe that the unintuitive handling of JSON is one of the primary reasons that slows down Haskell adoption." |
2025-05-28 23:12:17 +0200 | <EvanR> | it's kind of like how do I incrementally read JSON if all I have is js JSON.parse |
2025-05-28 23:12:33 +0200 | <[exa]> | EvanR: anyway true, I read "through" too literally, there you could do by bits. Selda is more like "from" |
2025-05-28 23:12:45 +0200 | <[exa]> | sm: lol where's that from. |
2025-05-28 23:13:01 +0200 | <bwe> | yeah, that's my gut feeling.. that I need to make my own flavour of constructing the result list. Which essentially boils down to finding the right place of inserting S.yield and getting the type signatures right. |
2025-05-28 23:13:14 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> this great interview: https://serokell.io/blog/haskell-in-production-simplex |
2025-05-28 23:13:25 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> also: "Another short-coming was a cross-platform terminal IO with unicode support – it doesn’t really work out of the box." |
2025-05-28 23:13:38 +0200 | <bwe> | [exa]: are you aware of https://github.com/haskell-streaming/streaming-postgresql-simple ? |
2025-05-28 23:13:45 +0200 | <EvanR> | that's ridiculous |
2025-05-28 23:14:27 +0200 | <bwe> | [exa]: ... and then, what about the fate of selda? Is the creator=maintainer still alive? |
2025-05-28 23:14:33 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-05-28 23:14:35 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich |
2025-05-28 23:14:40 +0200 | <EvanR> | who thought that JSON would be so complicated |
2025-05-28 23:14:50 +0200 | <EvanR> | shoulda used XML |
2025-05-28 23:14:56 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-05-28 23:14:56 +0200 | <[exa]> | sm: rofl. |
2025-05-28 23:15:07 +0200 | <[exa]> | EvanR: or YAML!!!11 |
2025-05-28 23:15:19 +0200 | <EvanR> | or CBOR |
2025-05-28 23:15:37 +0200 | <[exa]> | bwe: yeah that's mostly why I'm asking, it's not really maintained (but works :D), taking over is a possibility. |
2025-05-28 23:16:40 +0200 | <[exa]> | bwe: anyway yeah well the streaming pgsql mostly solves it, great. :D |
2025-05-28 23:18:08 +0200 | <EvanR> | aeson is doing double duty, reading in "dumb" json values but also giving a way to parse-don't-validate it to useful types |
2025-05-28 23:18:09 +0200 | <bwe> | [exa]: atm I'd like to work on getting streaming into selda for SQLite; however isn't it agnostic to whatever DB selda supports? |
2025-05-28 23:18:15 +0200 | <EvanR> | other languages have the second stage too and it's just as complex |
2025-05-28 23:18:57 +0200 | <[exa]> | json schemas yay |
2025-05-28 23:19:07 +0200 | <EvanR> | haskell can skip the second stage and be just as brittle |
2025-05-28 23:19:19 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-05-28 23:20:01 +0200 | <EvanR> | it's just unconventional |
2025-05-28 23:20:31 +0200 | <dibblego> | waargonaut is better than aeson anyway |
2025-05-28 23:21:03 +0200 | <[exa]> | bwe: the "core" part should be db-agnostic, yes. API there will need an update. I'm interested in having the postgres part working (not now but for future project) so if you have the API updated somewhere I'll just join in and port the postgres part if possible |
2025-05-28 23:22:31 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-05-28 23:22:43 +0200 | <bwe> | ... over and over I get the feeling that I tend to pick the wrong libraries in Haskell because I don't know about the existing right ones! Sadly, there is no current awesome-haskell list :(. |
2025-05-28 23:22:53 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-05-28 23:23:45 +0200 | <[exa]> | bwe: there's always a better library. stay with the expectable one. lack of surprise is good. |
2025-05-28 23:24:01 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
2025-05-28 23:24:12 +0200 | Otong | (~Otong@user/Otong) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
2025-05-28 23:24:31 +0200 | <EvanR> | *sql-simple packages are solid |
2025-05-28 23:27:32 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> how wrong you are bwe, two awesome lists for you here: https://joyful.com/Haskell+map#personal+docs |
2025-05-28 23:28:30 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> but better are some of the links at https://joyful.com/Haskell+map#other+docs, like fpblock |
2025-05-28 23:29:19 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> but you probably meant recently and ongoingly updated, and I guess you're right about that |
2025-05-28 23:29:42 +0200 | <bwe> | sm: yes, I mean recently and ongoingly updated. |
2025-05-28 23:30:18 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-05-28 23:30:28 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> gotcha. I guess keeping an eye on discourse and reddit is the best then |
2025-05-28 23:30:39 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-05-28 23:30:49 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> after you're familiar with the old stuff |
2025-05-28 23:31:36 +0200 | <bwe> | EvanR: you mean for example https://hackage.haskell.org/package/sql-simple-sqlite ? |
2025-05-28 23:32:01 +0200 | <EvanR> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/sqlite-simple |
2025-05-28 23:32:29 +0200 | <bwe> | [exa]: yeah, but before over-frustrating myself potentially with for example conduit, I'd give streaming a try. |
2025-05-28 23:32:45 +0200 | <bwe> | [exa]: but yes, avoiding those surprises is preferable, too. |
2025-05-28 23:33:32 +0200 | <[exa]> | bwe: for selda the way to go would probably be to not pull in any new dependencies and just expose a handle that people can pull stuff from |
2025-05-28 23:33:45 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> bwe also I usually do a few searches on hackage for alternatives. Better hackage search would be helpful. |
2025-05-28 23:35:01 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
2025-05-28 23:35:05 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-05-28 23:35:16 +0200 | <bwe> | [exa]: That's what I was contemplating yesterday. Not to introduce streaming as a dependency. So, I would factor out the S.yield function, for example as an argument? Then people could just pass in whatever streaming library they prefer? |
2025-05-28 23:35:37 +0200 | <bwe> | sm: Agreed. Would save a ton of frustrations. |
2025-05-28 23:35:59 +0200 | <[exa]> | bwe: yeah, that's the way. Expose mechanism, avoid policing. |
2025-05-28 23:36:32 +0200 | <bwe> | sm: To that end, actually linking similar packages together would help. Categories seem not to do that in a great way atm. |
2025-05-28 23:36:59 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> flora.pm has cleaned up the categories, I read |
2025-05-28 23:37:01 +0200 | <bwe> | [exa]: I am celebrating this clarity now :). |
2025-05-28 23:37:18 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> but hackage's search is more powerful. Fuzzier and more powerful search, and more trustworthy ratings, would be good |
2025-05-28 23:37:42 +0200 | bwe | checks out what's the buzz about flora.pm |
2025-05-28 23:37:59 +0200 | <[exa]> | current selda produces [], which you can reimagine in streaming version as (SomeHandle -> Either [] (a, SomeHandle)), which you can re-reimagine practically for database access as (SomeHandle -> IO (Either [] (a, SomeHandle))) and that's likely what I'd put in there as the interface type |
2025-05-28 23:38:16 +0200 | dut | (~dut@user/dut) dut |
2025-05-28 23:38:37 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> are package categorisations much different on Flora, Hecate ? |
2025-05-28 23:38:39 +0200 | <[exa]> | (plusminus some type syntax that makes this compile) |
2025-05-28 23:39:25 +0200 | <[exa]> | s/Either []/Maybe/ (haha stupid me) |
2025-05-28 23:39:34 +0200 | <bwe> | [exa]: I will come back to that when I touch it again! |
2025-05-28 23:40:02 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
2025-05-28 23:40:24 +0200 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
2025-05-28 23:40:37 +0200 | <[exa]> | bwe: ok please do |
2025-05-28 23:40:50 +0200 | <bwe> | [exa]: so by having factored out the dependency of the streaming library, I am free to define a type instance without introducing a dependency |
2025-05-28 23:41:06 +0200 | <bwe> | EvanR: Thanks for your input, appreciate it! |
2025-05-28 23:42:22 +0200 | anselmschueler | (~quassel@user/schuelermine) (Quit: This text is the quit reason) |
2025-05-28 23:42:54 +0200 | <bwe> | [exa]: will ping you if I'll give it a try with working on selda streaming. |
2025-05-28 23:43:37 +0200 | <[exa]> | ok looking forward! |
2025-05-28 23:44:01 +0200 | takuan | (~takuan@d8D86B601.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-05-28 23:44:54 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-05-28 23:45:17 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-05-28 23:48:42 +0200 | dut | (~dut@user/dut) (Quit: Leaving) |
2025-05-28 23:49:06 +0200 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
2025-05-28 23:50:53 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-05-28 23:53:22 +0200 | yin | zzz |
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