| 2025-04-29 00:00:24 +0200 | <int-e> | I wonder if it has opinions on WorldCoin |
| 2025-04-29 00:01:16 +0200 | <davean> | I' |
| 2025-04-29 00:01:29 +0200 | <davean> | ve started to loath a new trend |
| 2025-04-29 00:01:44 +0200 | <davean> | In issues, people throwing the thing at ChatGPT or whatever, and " |
| 2025-04-29 00:01:50 +0200 | <davean> | pasting" its answer as a solution |
| 2025-04-29 00:02:01 +0200 | <davean> | It make me want to lock the issues and never fix it |
| 2025-04-29 00:02:04 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2025-04-29 00:02:14 +0200 | <davean> | Its so actively unhelpful I wonder if people are doing it to troll |
| 2025-04-29 00:02:28 +0200 | <davean> | esp when what it pastes is self-evidently non-helpful |
| 2025-04-29 00:02:35 +0200 | <davean> | Which, so far, is all I've seen |
| 2025-04-29 00:02:44 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> I wouldn't mind if it's something helpful |
| 2025-04-29 00:02:57 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> I think I posted one of those myself recently |
| 2025-04-29 00:02:59 +0200 | <davean> | Its litterly never been, and it mean it kinda obviously won't be? |
| 2025-04-29 00:03:05 +0200 | <davean> | ... yah, you are one of the people I was thinking of |
| 2025-04-29 00:03:24 +0200 | <davean> | Yours was a great example of self-evidently not helpful |
| 2025-04-29 00:03:33 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> yikes! where was that |
| 2025-04-29 00:03:38 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> called out on my first attempt 🤣 |
| 2025-04-29 00:03:39 +0200 | <davean> | The wiki one |
| 2025-04-29 00:04:14 +0200 | <davean> | Where it suggested A) uncommenting a commented out line (How do you think it got commented out in the first place? If yhou had a question, check the git history) and B) generated an invalid CSS statement |
| 2025-04-29 00:04:52 +0200 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37 |
| 2025-04-29 00:05:16 +0200 | <int-e> | davean: I understand that it gets worse when there's a monetary incentive (bug bounties) |
| 2025-04-29 00:05:37 +0200 | <davean> | Oh god, I wouldn't be surprised if it did |
| 2025-04-29 00:05:46 +0200 | j1n37- | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-04-29 00:05:51 +0200 | <davean> | sm: on the plus side, your chatgpt response annyoed someone else enough to just fix it :) |
| 2025-04-29 00:05:54 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> https://github.com/haskell/haskell-wiki-configuration/issues/56#issuecomment-2822104811 |
| 2025-04-29 00:06:38 +0200 | <davean> | sorry, the "A" side was simplified out from you IRC posting, not the full length one. |
| 2025-04-29 00:07:18 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> I thought it gave some potentially useful context to my previous (human generated, terse) comment, to someone trying to fix this, and if not, would be easy to ignore. |
| 2025-04-29 00:08:31 +0200 | <davean> | It made it very evident it was splurting out some tutorial and nothing related to the actual config |
| 2025-04-29 00:08:52 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> to you. Obviously people like me trying to help don't have the same insight |
| 2025-04-29 00:09:12 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> I'll me more cautious on this tracker in future |
| 2025-04-29 00:09:16 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> be |
| 2025-04-29 00:09:44 +0200 | <davean> | The state at that comment was https://github.com/haskell/haskell-wiki-configuration/blob/beb924470357d8cc008a5c8118211066897a48e… |
| 2025-04-29 00:09:45 +0200 | LainIwakura | (~LainIwaku@user/LainIwakura) LainIwakura |
| 2025-04-29 00:09:57 +0200 | <davean> | You'll note a several line block of it commented out |
| 2025-04-29 00:10:31 +0200 | <davean> | Someone didn't write all that and comment it out by "accident" |
| 2025-04-29 00:11:27 +0200 | <davean> | Which is the sort of theory-of-mind ChatGPT seems to seriously lack |
| 2025-04-29 00:11:54 +0200 | paotsaq | (~paotsaq@127.209.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt) paotsaq |
| 2025-04-29 00:11:56 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> I pointed that out myself, but didn't know why (there was no explanation) |
| 2025-04-29 00:11:56 +0200 | <davean> | anyway, sm, you're hardly the worst person with this ever |
| 2025-04-29 00:12:33 +0200 | <davean> | Oh the CSS side I sohuld finish |
| 2025-04-29 00:12:49 +0200 | <davean> | it was a CSS directive that targeted displayed text, it clearly mixed up context between display and syntax |
| 2025-04-29 00:12:56 +0200 | <davean> | anyway, sm, you are HARDLY the worst |
| 2025-04-29 00:13:06 +0200 | <davean> | Its a real plauge lately though |
| 2025-04-29 00:13:15 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-04-29 00:14:03 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> I know that I'm not the worst. I was trying to be helpful. No need to beat up a volunteer for an unhelpful post, I've said I'll be more cautious |
| 2025-04-29 00:15:07 +0200 | <davean> | For an explanation of why it was commented out, it was commented out because the repo contains the code, but not in a runable state - it requires a specific build procedure to be run before it is a valid extension. As it was just a stylistic display issue I didn't feel like learning a PHP build sytem to get the wiki back online after the great wiki disaster and I hoped something obvious like that |
| 2025-04-29 00:15:09 +0200 | <davean> | would get anyone to step up and assist since I didn't want to end up owning the wiki just because I rescued it. |
| 2025-04-29 00:15:33 +0200 | <davean> | tolt happened to find a place they had actually already run the build system though, which made it easy to fix |
| 2025-04-29 00:16:53 +0200 | <davean> | Hopefully tolt having made a test vm setup thing for it other people might try working on it. |
| 2025-04-29 00:18:14 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-04-29 00:19:31 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> I became annoyed enough at the 6 month breakage to try to spend some more time helping. Without access or any insight / status reports I couldn't do more than blind research. I'm glad it helped remind people of the problem, even it if was annoying. It's just another github issue. |
| 2025-04-29 00:20:18 +0200 | <davean> | Hum? That is a full container config for the wiki in that repo |
| 2025-04-29 00:21:13 +0200 | <davean> | That is litterly the wiki, minutes its data |
| 2025-04-29 00:22:36 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> I'm irritated. Sorry, I'll drop this |
| 2025-04-29 00:28:00 +0200 | harveypwca | (~harveypwc@2601:246:d080:f6e0:27d6:8cc7:eca9:c46c) |
| 2025-04-29 00:28:59 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-04-29 00:31:41 +0200 | emmanuelux | (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) emmanuelux |
| 2025-04-29 00:34:31 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2025-04-29 00:34:38 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <hellwolf> 🫠tragedy of the gift economy... which needs more cheerleaders |
| 2025-04-29 00:35:12 +0200 | <int-e> | . o O ( it's spelled "grift" ) |
| 2025-04-29 00:35:16 +0200 | sprotte24 | (~sprotte24@p200300d16f1e9b00643a7ed1094ff735.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2025-04-29 00:38:04 +0200 | gmg | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-04-29 00:42:05 +0200 | justsomeguy | (~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-04-29 00:44:40 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-04-29 00:44:57 +0200 | tolgo | (~Thunderbi@199.115.144.130) |
| 2025-04-29 00:45:22 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich |
| 2025-04-29 00:49:24 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-04-29 00:49:44 +0200 | justsomeguy | (~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy) justsomeguy |
| 2025-04-29 00:51:25 +0200 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) Sgeo |
| 2025-04-29 00:55:11 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-04-29 00:55:13 +0200 | califax_ | (~califax@user/califx) califx |
| 2025-04-29 00:56:00 +0200 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-04-29 00:56:26 +0200 | califax_ | califax |
| 2025-04-29 00:59:34 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2025-04-29 01:01:45 +0200 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 2025-04-29 01:10:28 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-04-29 01:15:58 +0200 | Buliarous | (~gypsydang@46.232.210.139) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-04-29 01:16:26 +0200 | Buliarous | (~gypsydang@46.232.210.139) Buliarous |
| 2025-04-29 01:17:26 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-04-29 01:18:38 +0200 | LainIwakura | (~LainIwaku@user/LainIwakura) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2025-04-29 01:19:25 +0200 | LainIwakura | (~LainIwaku@user/LainIwakura) LainIwakura |
| 2025-04-29 01:21:39 +0200 | <monochrom> | darkling: Actually our department chair has also received students' escalated tickets "I answered something but my prof gave me 0". >:) |
| 2025-04-29 01:22:28 +0200 | <monochrom> | There were 3 such cases and the profs were all different. It is becoming a meme across the board. |
| 2025-04-29 01:23:47 +0200 | <int-e> | . o O ( I asked ChatGPT and it said I should receive full marks. ) |
| 2025-04-29 01:27:19 +0200 | LainIwakura | (~LainIwaku@user/LainIwakura) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2025-04-29 01:27:31 +0200 | jespada_ | (~jespada@r179-25-42-1.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2025-04-29 01:28:28 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-04-29 01:30:25 +0200 | tolgo | (~Thunderbi@199.115.144.130) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2025-04-29 01:32:34 +0200 | <monochrom> | Oh yeah have you heard of this old joke: If you think you know everything, you can get a Bachelor's. When you find out you don't know anything, you can get a Master's. When you also find out that your thesis supervisor doesn't know anything either, you can get a PhD. |
| 2025-04-29 01:32:50 +0200 | <monochrom> | I have upgraded that to a modern version. |
| 2025-04-29 01:33:37 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-04-29 01:33:43 +0200 | <monochrom> | If you think LLMs know everything, you can get a Bachelor's. When you find out that LLMs don't know anything, you can get a Master's. When you find out that your thesis supervisor is also relying on LLMs, you can get a PhD. |
| 2025-04-29 01:33:46 +0200 | <darkling> | You learn more and more about less and less, until you know everything about nothing... |
| 2025-04-29 01:34:02 +0200 | <darkling> | (At which point, they give you a PhD to get rid of you). |
| 2025-04-29 01:35:52 +0200 | <darkling> | Somewhat glad I'm not in academia any more. Should have got out much earlier. Would have given me more time to get burned out and recover from industry... :/ |
| 2025-04-29 01:37:36 +0200 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e71c4f61394430d048071491.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2025-04-29 01:44:15 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-04-29 01:45:51 +0200 | harveypwca | (~harveypwc@2601:246:d080:f6e0:27d6:8cc7:eca9:c46c) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2025-04-29 01:46:48 +0200 | <EvanR> | I would like my Master's now |
| 2025-04-29 01:47:20 +0200 | <EvanR> | 🫴 |
| 2025-04-29 01:47:45 +0200 | <darkling> | Don't bother. It's not worth it. :) |
| 2025-04-29 01:48:00 +0200 | Googulator47 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-093f-1dc7-297e-fae3-e794.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2025-04-29 01:48:14 +0200 | Googulator47 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-093f-1dc7-297e-fae3-e794.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 2025-04-29 01:48:40 +0200 | <monochrom> | Nah, Master's is OK, just don't get sucked into PhD. :) |
| 2025-04-29 01:48:42 +0200 | <int-e> | EvanR: those aren't requirements, they're consequences |
| 2025-04-29 01:49:01 +0200 | <int-e> | (also it's a joke) |
| 2025-04-29 01:49:10 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-04-29 01:50:05 +0200 | <EvanR> | how do you I wasn't joking! |
| 2025-04-29 01:50:09 +0200 | <EvanR> | know |
| 2025-04-29 01:50:36 +0200 | <monochrom> | <poker face>Everyone is not joking</poker face> |
| 2025-04-29 01:50:39 +0200 | <int-e> | EvanR: I don't |
| 2025-04-29 01:51:17 +0200 | <EvanR> | this joke is serious |
| 2025-04-29 01:51:24 +0200 | <int-e> | EvanR: I mean, you were clearly joking. But I'm not sure what exactly you were joking about ;-) |
| 2025-04-29 01:54:15 +0200 | JuanDaugherty | (~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) (Quit: praxis.meansofproduction.biz (juan@acm.org)) |
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| 2025-04-29 03:05:27 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-04-29 03:05:52 +0200 | notdabs | (~Owner@2600:1700:69cf:9000:79ef:6a68:163c:c553) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2025-04-29 03:07:05 +0200 | <EvanR> | haskell is usually taken as using lazy evaluation while e.g. javascript is eager evaluation. If you were to specify "evaluation strategy is not specified", would that force you to write like haskell, or like javascript, or neither, if you didn't care about side effects, exceptions, and performance |
| 2025-04-29 03:08:22 +0200 | <EvanR> | (haskell isn't specified to be lazy, though I'm not sure how relevant it is to this) |
| 2025-04-29 03:10:31 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2025-04-29 03:11:46 +0200 | <c_wraith> | Haskell isn't specified to be lazy, but it is specified to terminate if any evaluation order will do so. It's hard to get that behavior without default laziness |
| 2025-04-29 03:12:29 +0200 | gorignak | (~gorignak@user/gorignak) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2025-04-29 03:13:18 +0200 | <monochrom> | If evaluation isn't specified, then I would need strictness to be specified. The Haskell Report specifies non-strict. |
| 2025-04-29 03:15:30 +0200 | <EvanR> | if neither are specified? |
| 2025-04-29 03:18:34 +0200 | <EvanR> | in some sense lazy evaluation subsumes eager evaluation, so does it mean with no other information you would default to eager? |
| 2025-04-29 03:18:47 +0200 | <monochrom> | If unspecified, then I cannot assume for example const () bottom = (), so pessimistically I will have to write like, well, I don't want to get js involved, but I can work with SML or Racket. |
| 2025-04-29 03:19:00 +0200 | <monochrom> | Yeah, that. |
| 2025-04-29 03:21:11 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-04-29 03:21:27 +0200 | <EvanR> | that sucks! |
| 2025-04-29 03:22:52 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2025-04-29 03:23:46 +0200 | gorignak | (~gorignak@user/gorignak) gorignak |
| 2025-04-29 03:24:56 +0200 | <monochrom> | But I haven't really needed to resort to that. Most languages are sufficiently specified or at least suffciently de-facto'ed. |
| 2025-04-29 03:25:32 +0200 | <EvanR> | they are, though I was wondering to what extent that was necessary |
| 2025-04-29 03:25:58 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-04-29 03:26:58 +0200 | <EvanR> | predicting performance aside, the main issue is going into an infinite loop because of insufficient laziness |
| 2025-04-29 03:27:01 +0200 | weary-traveler | (~user@user/user363627) user363627 |
| 2025-04-29 03:30:22 +0200 | <EvanR> | which is where haskell's guarantee comes in |
| 2025-04-29 03:30:43 +0200 | sayurc | (~sayurc@169.150.203.34) sayurc |
| 2025-04-29 03:32:12 +0200 | gorignak | (~gorignak@user/gorignak) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |