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| 2025-03-29 03:00:51 +0100 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod |
| 2025-03-29 03:04:03 +0100 | tremon | (~tremon@83.80.159.219) (Quit: getting boxed in) |
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| 2025-03-29 03:07:14 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> Liamzee freeing after use isn't the fastest option. In fact, switching to it on linear code would actually make it slower |
| 2025-03-29 03:08:34 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> On many cases, an arena allocator is the fastest option because you can free many things at once (faster than one thing at a time). It's even recommended in C because of it's speed and simplicity |
| 2025-03-29 03:09:30 +0100 | malte | (~malte@mal.tc) malte |
| 2025-03-29 03:09:34 +0100 | malte | (~malte@mal.tc) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-03-29 03:09:48 +0100 | malte | (~malte@mal.tc) malte |
| 2025-03-29 03:11:15 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> But you don't have to trust me here, the Perceus (basically inferring linear and inserting alloc/free) tests a lot of people have done show improvements only on very specific examples, but poorer performance otherwise |
| 2025-03-29 03:13:37 +0100 | tomku | (~tomku@user/tomku) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-03-29 03:13:54 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> Modern GCs have a lot of thought put into them in order to make them really fast. Allocation for those is practically free and deallocation is deferred until it's at near-peak efficiency |
| 2025-03-29 03:19:28 +0100 | nitrix | (~nitrix@user/meow/nitrix) nitrix |
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| 2025-03-29 04:49:10 +0100 | bitdex | (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) bitdex |
| 2025-03-29 04:51:21 +0100 | haskellbridge | (~hackager@syn-024-093-192-219.res.spectrum.com) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-03-29 04:51:55 +0100 | haskellbridge | (~hackager@syn-024-093-192-219.res.spectrum.com) hackager |
| 2025-03-29 04:51:55 +0100 | ChanServ | +v haskellbridge |
| 2025-03-29 05:11:09 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> is that what rust's optimizer is actually doing? |
| 2025-03-29 05:11:12 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> Bowuigi: |
| 2025-03-29 05:12:36 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> No clue but probably yes. Tho allocations are not inferred in Rust (that's why you have to deal with the borrow checker) |
| 2025-03-29 05:13:08 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> Probably yes to the refcounting, not to the efficient GC |
| 2025-03-29 05:17:28 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> are there good reasons not to use Twain? Are there limitations of Twain I should know about? |
| 2025-03-29 05:29:50 +0100 | aforemny_ | (~aforemny@i577B132D.versanet.de) aforemny |
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| 2025-03-29 05:58:03 +0100 | Flow | (~none@gentoo/developer/flow) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
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| 2025-03-29 06:30:12 +0100 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich |
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| 2025-03-29 06:36:03 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-03-29 06:36:06 +0100 | takuan | (~takuan@d8D86B601.access.telenet.be) |
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| 2025-03-29 06:50:30 +0100 | jmcantrell | (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Quit: WeeChat 4.6.0) |
| 2025-03-29 06:50:33 +0100 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Quit: peterbecich) |
| 2025-03-29 06:50:54 +0100 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich |
| 2025-03-29 06:56:42 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-03-29 08:00:04 +0100 | caconym | (~caconym@user/caconym) (Quit: bye) |
| 2025-03-29 08:00:18 +0100 | JamesMowery17 | (~JamesMowe@ip68-228-212-232.ph.ph.cox.net) (Quit: Goodbye) |
| 2025-03-29 08:00:31 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> what are the tradeoffs of various sql backends that Haskell supports? |
| 2025-03-29 08:00:36 +0100 | JamesMowery17 | (~JamesMowe@ip68-228-212-232.ph.ph.cox.net) JamesMowery |
| 2025-03-29 08:00:49 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> I'm just going with postgresql because that seems to be standard, but there's also sqlite3 packages |
| 2025-03-29 08:00:59 +0100 | caconym | (~caconym@user/caconym) caconym |
| 2025-03-29 08:01:42 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> huh |
| 2025-03-29 08:01:44 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/zynpnf/what_databases_do_you_find_the_most_productive_to/ |
| 2025-03-29 08:01:50 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2025-03-29 08:04:22 +0100 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2025-03-29 08:12:51 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-03-29 08:15:40 +0100 | Lord_of_Life_ | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) Lord_of_Life |
| 2025-03-29 08:16:24 +0100 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-03-29 08:17:04 +0100 | Lord_of_Life_ | Lord_of_Life |
| 2025-03-29 08:17:46 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-03-29 08:18:03 +0100 | son0p | (~ff@2800:e6:4001:f995:7f79:d961:a77:e30d) son0p |
| 2025-03-29 08:19:20 +0100 | <jackdk> | All the libraries I like only support postgred (rel8, opaleye, hasql) |
| 2025-03-29 08:19:39 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-03-29 08:27:51 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2025-03-29 08:39:14 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-03-29 08:42:56 +0100 | Square2 | (~Square@user/square) (Quit: Leaving) |
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| 2025-03-29 08:54:19 +0100 | ensyde | (~ensyde@2601:5c6:c200:6dc0::6f7f) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-03-29 08:55:52 +0100 | takuan | (~takuan@d8D86B601.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 2025-03-29 09:01:34 +0100 | random-jellyfish | (~developer@85.50.149.196) |
| 2025-03-29 09:01:34 +0100 | random-jellyfish | (~developer@85.50.149.196) (Changing host) |
| 2025-03-29 09:01:34 +0100 | random-jellyfish | (~developer@user/random-jellyfish) random-jellyfish |
| 2025-03-29 09:02:26 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-03-29 09:09:02 +0100 | jaror | (~jaror@5070ACC7.static.ziggozakelijk.nl) |
| 2025-03-29 09:13:04 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-03-29 09:14:05 +0100 | tremon | (~tremon@83.80.159.219) tremon |
| 2025-03-29 09:28:23 +0100 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) CiaoSen |
| 2025-03-29 09:33:00 +0100 | wootehfoot | (~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) wootehfoot |
| 2025-03-29 09:33:05 +0100 | ash3en | (~Thunderbi@89.56.182.235) ash3en |
| 2025-03-29 09:40:57 +0100 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e71c4f56253b485ca204f32a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk |
| 2025-03-29 09:42:13 +0100 | ash3en | (~Thunderbi@89.56.182.235) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2025-03-29 09:56:12 +0100 | Feuermagier | (~Feuermagi@user/feuermagier) Feuermagier |
| 2025-03-29 09:56:48 +0100 | Feuermagier | (~Feuermagi@user/feuermagier) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-03-29 10:01:41 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> ah, i'm using opaleye right now |
| 2025-03-29 10:03:22 +0100 | Square | (~Square@user/square) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-03-29 10:07:08 +0100 | Feuermagier | (~Feuermagi@user/feuermagier) Feuermagier |
| 2025-03-29 10:08:28 +0100 | Feuermagier | (~Feuermagi@user/feuermagier) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 2025-03-29 10:14:57 +0100 | tavare | (~tavare@user/tavare) tavare |
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| 2025-03-29 10:17:43 +0100 | fp | (~Thunderbi@hof1.kyla.fi) fp |
| 2025-03-29 10:22:53 +0100 | hughjfchen | (~hughjfche@vmi2417424.contaboserver.net) (Quit: WeeChat 4.4.3) |
| 2025-03-29 10:23:25 +0100 | ensyde | (~ensyde@2601:5c6:c200:6dc0::6f7f) ensyde |
| 2025-03-29 10:24:18 +0100 | hughjfchen | (~hughjfche@vmi2417424.contaboserver.net) hughjfchen |
| 2025-03-29 10:39:18 +0100 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) Tuplanolla |
| 2025-03-29 10:49:59 +0100 | fp | (~Thunderbi@hof1.kyla.fi) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-03-29 10:55:27 +0100 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj |
| 2025-03-29 10:57:32 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | What is a good name for a type that does not contain any function arrows? I've been recommended "ground type", but other resources reserve that for a type without _type variables_ instead |
| 2025-03-29 10:59:52 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> is that question coherent? |
| 2025-03-29 11:00:03 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> erm, that's the wrong word |
| 2025-03-29 11:00:06 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> meaningful |
| 2025-03-29 11:00:17 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> newtype Foo = MkFoo (Int -> Char) |
| 2025-03-29 11:00:33 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> Foo doesn't contain any function arrows, but it's a newtype over a function type |
| 2025-03-29 11:10:31 +0100 | sprotte24 | (~sprotte24@p200300d16f18ca00810b5da35042238f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2025-03-29 11:14:15 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | Liamzee: It's a fair point. I think I'd want Foo to "contain function arrows", i.e. to _not_ be in the category that I want a name for |
| 2025-03-29 11:14:44 +0100 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-03-29 11:14:53 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | but if there's a good term for such types where you do consider Foo to be "simple", I'm also open to those |
| 2025-03-29 11:15:30 +0100 | j1n37- | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-03-29 11:15:56 +0100 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37 |
| 2025-03-29 11:16:34 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> non-function types? |
| 2025-03-29 11:16:53 +0100 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-03-29 11:20:30 +0100 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37 |
| 2025-03-29 11:24:34 +0100 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-03-29 11:26:17 +0100 | lxsameer | (~lxsameer@Serene/lxsameer) lxsameer |
| 2025-03-29 11:30:11 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | well, (Int, Int -> Int) is also a non-function type, in my mind |
| 2025-03-29 11:32:05 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | one can generalise from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher-order_function |
| 2025-03-29 11:32:16 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | a higher-order function is a function that takes functions; a first-order function is a function that does not |
| 2025-03-29 11:32:57 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | if you define Order[Int] = 0; Order[(a, b)] = max(Order[a], Order[b]); Order[a -> b] = max{1 + Order[a], Order[b]}, then a first-order function is a function with type of order 1, and a higher-order function is a function with type of order >1 |
| 2025-03-29 11:33:10 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | then the thing I'm looking for would be type with order 0 |
| 2025-03-29 11:33:34 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | but I'm not sure I've seen "zeroth-order type" before, and it's also a bit of an awkward phrase |
| 2025-03-29 11:33:41 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:9865:6ec1:d353:2dc8) |
| 2025-03-29 11:36:08 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-03-29 11:36:26 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> so would (Int, Int -> Int) be a type that contains function arrows? |
| 2025-03-29 11:36:42 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> I'm guessing it's just that in languages where functions are values the term is more confused |
| 2025-03-29 11:37:39 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | yes, (Int, Int -> Int) would be a type that contains function arrows, and would thus not be allowed for my thingy types |
| 2025-03-29 11:38:15 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | The context here is an array language: I want to allow arrays of zeroth-order types only, because functions have closures and everything becomes messy then |
| 2025-03-29 11:38:30 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | even sum types are messy but only to a limited extent |
| 2025-03-29 11:38:53 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | this is not in haskell specifically, but I'm asking here because it's somewhat related :) |
| 2025-03-29 11:41:55 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-03-29 11:42:53 +0100 | jacopovalanzano | (~jacopoval@cpc151911-cove17-2-0-cust105.3-1.cable.virginm.net) |
| 2025-03-29 11:46:38 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2025-03-29 11:47:39 +0100 | <Leary> | tomsmeding: Trees? |
| 2025-03-29 11:51:37 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | Leary: then arrays and sum types would need to be trees, and function types not |
| 2025-03-29 11:52:04 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | it's a good unorthodox suggestion, but I'm not a fan either |
| 2025-03-29 11:52:38 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | I think I'll just go with "zeroth-order"; I even have a sensible use for "second-order", i.e. functions that take functions that don't take functions |
| 2025-03-29 11:52:44 +0100 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj |
| 2025-03-29 11:53:06 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | (in a language with zeroth-order arrays, 'map' on arrays is a second-order function) |
| 2025-03-29 11:57:35 +0100 | sand-witch | (~m-mzmz6l@vmi833741.contaboserver.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-03-29 11:57:41 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-03-29 11:58:24 +0100 | sand-witch | (~m-mzmz6l@vmi833741.contaboserver.net) |
| 2025-03-29 11:58:26 +0100 | <Leary> | Anything built from base types with sums and products counts as a tree in my book, some of them are just really wide or stunted. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
| 2025-03-29 11:58:33 +0100 | lxsameer | (~lxsameer@Serene/lxsameer) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-03-29 12:00:04 +0100 | caconym | (~caconym@user/caconym) (Quit: bye) |
| 2025-03-29 12:04:04 +0100 | __monty__ | (~toonn@user/toonn) toonn |
| 2025-03-29 12:04:40 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2025-03-29 12:05:07 +0100 | caconym | (~caconym@user/caconym) caconym |
| 2025-03-29 12:08:53 +0100 | aforemny_ | (~aforemny@i577B132D.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-03-29 12:15:44 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-03-29 12:16:17 +0100 | ensyde | (~ensyde@2601:5c6:c200:6dc0::6f7f) (Quit: WeeChat 4.6.0) |
| 2025-03-29 12:20:30 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-03-29 12:25:47 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-03-29 12:26:27 +0100 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!) |
| 2025-03-29 12:27:36 +0100 | <merijn> | Leary: My hot take: Trees are just very degenerate trees :) |
| 2025-03-29 12:28:05 +0100 | <merijn> | Actually, your comment has broadened my view, so I've updated my hot take to also conclude Maybe is a degenerate tree :p |
| 2025-03-29 12:28:41 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | what would be a non-degenerate tree? |
| 2025-03-29 12:29:02 +0100 | <merijn> | tomsmeding: A perfectly balanced binary tree :p |
| 2025-03-29 12:29:22 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | I like those too |
| 2025-03-29 12:29:41 +0100 | int-e | wonders whether merijn meant lists |
| 2025-03-29 12:30:13 +0100 | <merijn> | int-e: eh, yes |
| 2025-03-29 12:30:16 +0100 | <merijn> | I slept badly xD |
| 2025-03-29 12:30:32 +0100 | <merijn> | And I'm doing 4 things at once |
| 2025-03-29 12:32:28 +0100 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |