| 2026-07-06 00:01:04 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-07-06 00:04:19 +0000 | yanmaani | (~yanmaani@gateway/tor-sasl/yanmaani) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 00:04:32 +0000 | yanmaani | (~yanmaani@gateway/tor-sasl/yanmaani) yanmaani |
| 2026-07-06 00:05:43 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 00:16:23 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-07-06 00:19:11 +0000 | foul_owl | (~kerry@94.156.149.95) foul_owl |
| 2026-07-06 00:23:15 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
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| 2026-07-06 00:34:50 +0000 | finsternis | (~X@23.226.237.192) finsternis |
| 2026-07-06 00:38:39 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 00:52:02 +0000 | acidjnk_new3 | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e74def53f79cd8407407d46e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 00:52:25 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-07-06 00:55:59 +0000 | sdrfan123 | (~sdrfan123@2607:fb91:3781:34f8:a435:5c58:28fe:92e4) |
| 2026-07-06 00:57:11 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 01:02:19 +0000 | tremon | (~tremon@83-80-159-219.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: getting boxed in) |
| 2026-07-06 01:06:39 +0000 | califax_ | (~califax@user/califx) califx |
| 2026-07-06 01:06:40 +0000 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) (Quit: ZNC 1.10.1 - https://znc.in) |
| 2026-07-06 01:07:02 +0000 | ChaiTRex | (~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2026-07-06 01:07:11 +0000 | Chai-T-Rex | (~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) ChaiTRex |
| 2026-07-06 01:07:40 +0000 | gehmehgeh | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) gehmehgeh |
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| 2026-07-06 01:07:46 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-07-06 01:07:57 +0000 | califax_ | califax |
| 2026-07-06 01:12:11 +0000 | sourdecor | (uid526401@id-526401.lymington.irccloud.com) |
| 2026-07-06 01:12:19 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 01:23:09 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2026-07-06 01:33:25 +0000 | lisbeths | (uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com) lisbeths |
| 2026-07-06 01:38:31 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2026-07-06 01:53:53 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-07-06 01:54:52 +0000 | sdrfan123 | (~sdrfan123@2607:fb91:3781:34f8:a435:5c58:28fe:92e4) (Quit: Client closed) |
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| 2026-07-06 02:27:18 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-07-06 02:31:52 +0000 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@71.84.33.135) (Quit: peterbecich) |
| 2026-07-06 02:32:10 +0000 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@71.84.33.135) peterbecich |
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| 2026-07-06 02:38:22 +0000 | koraynilay | (~koraynila@user/koraynilay) koraynilay |
| 2026-07-06 02:43:58 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-07-06 02:45:38 +0000 | koraynilay | (~koraynila@user/koraynilay) (Quit: WeeChat 4.9.1) |
| 2026-07-06 02:45:56 +0000 | koraynilay | (~koraynila@user/koraynilay) koraynilay |
| 2026-07-06 02:47:02 +0000 | koraynilay | (~koraynila@user/koraynilay) (Client Quit) |
| 2026-07-06 02:48:37 +0000 | koraynilay | (~koraynila@user/koraynilay) koraynilay |
| 2026-07-06 02:53:09 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 247 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 03:02:31 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2026-07-06 03:32:00 +0000 | sourdecor | (uid526401@id-526401.lymington.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2026-07-06 03:33:21 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-07-06 03:39:15 +0000 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@71.84.33.135) peterbecich |
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| 2026-07-06 03:42:23 +0000 | lisbeths | (uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
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| 2026-07-06 03:59:34 +0000 | k3ut0i | (~keutoi@223.230.39.17) |
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| 2026-07-06 04:41:13 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2026-07-06 04:56:32 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2026-07-06 05:18:56 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-07-06 05:22:57 +0000 | humasect | (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) humasect |
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| 2026-07-06 05:30:12 +0000 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2026-07-06 05:33:13 +0000 | GdeVolpiano | (~GdeVolpia@user/GdeVolpiano) (Ping timeout: 271 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 05:34:21 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-07-06 05:34:47 +0000 | GdeVolpiano | (~GdeVolpia@user/GdeVolpiano) GdeVolpiano |
| 2026-07-06 05:41:49 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 05:44:55 +0000 | divlamir_ | (~divlamir@user/divlamir) divlamir |
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| 2026-07-06 05:48:04 +0000 | divlamir_ | divlamir |
| 2026-07-06 05:52:18 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-07-06 05:56:57 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 06:04:31 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2026-07-06 06:19:55 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-07-06 06:24:25 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 06:35:20 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-07-06 06:38:14 +0000 | leppard | (~noOne@ipservice-092-209-218-237.092.209.pools.vodafone-ip.de) Inline |
| 2026-07-06 06:39:38 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 242 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 06:42:51 +0000 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@2a02:3100:629f:1e00:4e50:ddff:fe9b:8922) CiaoSen |
| 2026-07-06 06:57:24 +0000 | jreicher | (~joelr@user/jreicher) (Quit: In transit) |
| 2026-07-06 07:00:01 +0000 | rabbull7217 | (~rabbull@xdsl-31-164-93-219.adslplus.ch) |
| 2026-07-06 07:01:12 +0000 | rabbull721 | (~rabbull@xdsl-31-164-93-219.adslplus.ch) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2026-07-06 07:01:12 +0000 | rabbull7217 | rabbull721 |
| 2026-07-06 07:05:30 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-07-06 07:12:04 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 247 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 07:14:47 +0000 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:340e:2700:ade1:e806:3aae:82f9) |
| 2026-07-06 07:18:36 +0000 | schuelermine | (~Thunderbi@user/schuelermine) schuelermine |
| 2026-07-06 07:22:07 +0000 | takuan | (~takuan@d8D86B996.access.telenet.be) |
| 2026-07-06 07:23:37 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-07-06 07:24:32 +0000 | humasect | (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) humasect |
| 2026-07-06 07:28:09 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 07:29:04 +0000 | ski | (~ski@31-208-28-6.cust.bredband2.com) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 07:32:06 +0000 | humasect | (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Ping timeout: 275 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 07:41:03 +0000 | __monty__ | (~toonn@user/toonn) toonn |
| 2026-07-06 07:45:59 +0000 | schuelermine | (~Thunderbi@user/schuelermine) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 07:49:22 +0000 | bitterx | (~bitterx@user/bitterx) bitterx |
| 2026-07-06 08:03:13 +0000 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:340e:2700:ade1:e806:3aae:82f9) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2026-07-06 08:07:21 +0000 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:340e:2700:ade1:e806:3aae:82f9) |
| 2026-07-06 08:09:49 +0000 | chele | (~chele@user/chele) chele |
| 2026-07-06 08:13:10 +0000 | humasect | (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) humasect |
| 2026-07-06 08:14:44 +0000 | humasect | (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2026-07-06 08:16:13 +0000 | halloy7365 | (~halloy736@2404:4400:a100:976:b037:f65c:4be7:9401) |
| 2026-07-06 08:18:13 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn |
| 2026-07-06 08:18:59 +0000 | jreicher | (~joelr@user/jreicher) jreicher |
| 2026-07-06 08:19:43 +0000 | halloy7365 | (~halloy736@2404:4400:a100:976:b037:f65c:4be7:9401) (Client Quit) |
| 2026-07-06 08:19:49 +0000 | k3ut0i | (~keutoi@223.230.39.17) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 08:22:15 +0000 | emmanuelux_ | (~em@2a02-8440-2500-1c8c-09cc-3b88-3a47-46a0.rev.sfr.net) (Quit: bye) |
| 2026-07-06 08:24:33 +0000 | bggd | (~bgg@2a01:e0a:fd5:f510:3c59:2fe9:3861:67d0) |
| 2026-07-06 08:24:33 +0000 | bggd | (~bgg@2a01:e0a:fd5:f510:3c59:2fe9:3861:67d0) (Changing host) |
| 2026-07-06 08:24:33 +0000 | bggd | (~bgg@user/bggd) bggd |
| 2026-07-06 08:25:18 +0000 | tzh | (~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz) |
| 2026-07-06 08:25:40 +0000 | ft | (~ft@p508dbe16.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2026-07-06 08:31:27 +0000 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:340e:2700:ade1:e806:3aae:82f9) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2026-07-06 08:32:05 +0000 | sord937 | (~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) sord937 |
| 2026-07-06 08:33:17 +0000 | danza | (~danza@user/danza) danza |
| 2026-07-06 08:34:45 +0000 | picnoir | (~picnoir@about/aquilenet/vodoo/NinjaTrappeur) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 08:36:59 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 08:41:33 +0000 | k3ut0i | (~keutoi@223.230.39.17) |
| 2026-07-06 08:45:19 +0000 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Excess Flood) |
| 2026-07-06 08:45:34 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn |
| 2026-07-06 08:47:32 +0000 | picnoir | (~picnoir@about/aquilenet/vodoo/NinjaTrappeur) NinjaTrappeur |
| 2026-07-06 08:49:37 +0000 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) Lord_of_Life |
| 2026-07-06 08:56:50 +0000 | eggplantade | (~eggplanta@2600:1702:8450:c370:9436:d382:832a:2336) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 09:03:54 +0000 | comerijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn |
| 2026-07-06 09:07:13 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 09:08:31 +0000 | m1dnight | (~m1dnight@d8D861A17.access.telenet.be) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 09:10:22 +0000 | eggplantade | (~eggplanta@2600:1702:8450:c370:68e2:8150:e673:9bfc) |
| 2026-07-06 09:12:50 +0000 | nschoe | (~nschoe@2a01:e0a:8e:a190:c64a:f69:5048:9489) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in) |
| 2026-07-06 09:13:07 +0000 | nschoe | (~nschoe@2a01:e0a:8e:a190:e469:96d4:b168:7f50) nschoe |
| 2026-07-06 09:16:01 +0000 | eggplantade | (~eggplanta@2600:1702:8450:c370:68e2:8150:e673:9bfc) (Ping timeout: 262 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 09:17:03 +0000 | gehmehgeh | gmg |
| 2026-07-06 09:21:33 +0000 | acidjnk_new3 | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e74def5338a903041d5cc5e5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk |
| 2026-07-06 09:29:25 +0000 | eggplantade | (~eggplanta@2600:1702:8450:c370:68e2:8150:e673:9bfc) |
| 2026-07-06 09:29:25 +0000 | k3ut0i | (~keutoi@223.230.39.17) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 09:35:11 +0000 | eggplantade | (~eggplanta@2600:1702:8450:c370:68e2:8150:e673:9bfc) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 09:36:08 +0000 | fp | (~Thunderbi@wireless-86-50-141-158.open.aalto.fi) fp |
| 2026-07-06 09:41:52 +0000 | <fp> | How come Semigroup and Monoid are called that? To my brain (which hasn't studied category theory), "Semigroup" and "Monoid" don't convey the idea of joinable values, nor that Monoid is a Semigroup with an identity value, and also "Monoid" sounds a bit like "Monad", but at least at the surface, they are unrelated |
| 2026-07-06 09:42:43 +0000 | <jaror> | Do you mean why mathematicians called it that or why Haskell inherited those names? |
| 2026-07-06 09:44:00 +0000 | <fp> | Kind of both, but mostly the mathy origin. I imagine the reason for Haskell is that it inherited names from some set of textbooks, right? |
| 2026-07-06 09:45:13 +0000 | <danza> | let's say a _large_ set of textbooks |
| 2026-07-06 09:45:49 +0000 | <fp> | Actually, would ML have influenced the name? I know nothing of ML besides it inspired Haskell, OCaml, et al. |
| 2026-07-06 09:46:41 +0000 | <jaror> | Wikipedia says this: |
| 2026-07-06 09:46:41 +0000 | <jaror> | "A number of sources[18][19] attribute the first use of the term (in French) to J.-A. de Séguier in Élements de la Théorie des Groupes Abstraits (Elements of the Theory of Abstract Groups) in 1904." |
| 2026-07-06 09:46:47 +0000 | <jaror> | about semigroup |
| 2026-07-06 09:46:54 +0000 | <jaror> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semigroup#History |
| 2026-07-06 09:47:35 +0000 | eggplantade | (~eggplanta@2600:1702:8450:c370:68e2:8150:e673:9bfc) |
| 2026-07-06 09:48:21 +0000 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@2a02:3100:629f:1e00:4e50:ddff:fe9b:8922) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 09:48:45 +0000 | <danza> | it is not just category theory. As far as i understand these are algebras. So a semigroup is an algebra defined with an associative operation ... like Semigroup |
| 2026-07-06 09:49:30 +0000 | <mauke> | yeah, the whole groups/rings/monoids thing is pure math |
| 2026-07-06 09:49:35 +0000 | <mauke> | (algebra) |
| 2026-07-06 09:49:39 +0000 | <danza> | a monoid is an algebra with associative operation and a neutral (zero) term, like a Monoid... and so forth |
| 2026-07-06 09:50:02 +0000 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:340e:2700:ade1:e806:3aae:82f9) |
| 2026-07-06 09:50:26 +0000 | <jaror> | Monoid also makes some intuitive sense to me: it is a type where if you have many (possibly zero) things you can combine them into one (mono). |
| 2026-07-06 09:50:42 +0000 | danza | (~danza@user/danza) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2026-07-06 09:50:56 +0000 | danza | (~danza@user/danza) danza |
| 2026-07-06 09:51:22 +0000 | bitterx | (~bitterx@user/bitterx) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2026-07-06 09:54:01 +0000 | <fp> | I suppose so, just the juxtaposition with Semigroup makes it feel so random |
| 2026-07-06 09:54:18 +0000 | <mauke> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Magma_to_group2.svg |
| 2026-07-06 09:54:28 +0000 | <mauke> | "could be worse" |
| 2026-07-06 09:55:29 +0000 | eggplantade | (~eggplanta@2600:1702:8450:c370:68e2:8150:e673:9bfc) (Ping timeout: 242 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 09:56:18 +0000 | weary-traveler | (~user@user/user363627) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2026-07-06 09:56:43 +0000 | <mauke> | https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Magma_to_group4.svg yeah, that's not confusing at all |
| 2026-07-06 09:56:43 +0000 | weary-traveler | (~user@user/user363627) user363627 |
| 2026-07-06 09:57:21 +0000 | <jaror> | It seems monoid is much more recent |
| 2026-07-06 09:57:55 +0000 | <jaror> | Like 1956 |
| 2026-07-06 09:58:18 +0000 | comerijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 09:59:00 +0000 | <danza> | i never used Group in Haskell. Yet it sounds like an handy concept |
| 2026-07-06 09:59:21 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn |
| 2026-07-06 09:59:45 +0000 | <danza> | %:i Integer |
| 2026-07-06 09:59:56 +0000 | <danza> | >:i Integer |
| 2026-07-06 10:00:22 +0000 | <int-e> | it needs a space |
| 2026-07-06 10:00:29 +0000 | <int-e> | % :i Integer |
| 2026-07-06 10:00:29 +0000 | <yahb2> | type Integer :: * ; data Integer ; = GHC.Internal.Bignum.Integer.IS GHC.Internal.Prim.Int# ; | GHC.Internal.Bignum.Integer.IP GHC.Internal.Prim.ByteArray# ; | GHC.Internal.Bignum.Integer.IN G... |
| 2026-07-06 10:00:47 +0000 | <danza> | well integer would not be a Group anyways because it is lacking negative numbers i think? |
| 2026-07-06 10:00:51 +0000 | <mauke> | semigroup is from 1904, apparently |
| 2026-07-06 10:01:09 +0000 | <danza> | nope i was thinking of Natural but that does not exist |
| 2026-07-06 10:01:10 +0000 | <mauke> | > negate 42 :: Integer |
| 2026-07-06 10:01:10 +0000 | <int-e> | danza: Integer has negative numbers; its addition is a group |
| 2026-07-06 10:01:11 +0000 | <lambdabot> | -42 |
| 2026-07-06 10:01:26 +0000 | <int-e> | the multiplication is a monoid |
| 2026-07-06 10:01:45 +0000 | <jaror> | Yeah, and group from Galois in 1829 |
| 2026-07-06 10:01:50 +0000 | <danza> | did you ever use Group in Haskell int-e? Does it even exist? |
| 2026-07-06 10:02:02 +0000 | <int-e> | I don't think it exists |
| 2026-07-06 10:02:35 +0000 | <int-e> | Monoid existed a long time; Semigroup in base is far more recent |
| 2026-07-06 10:03:46 +0000 | chromoblob | (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 10:04:40 +0000 | chromoblob | (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) chromoblob\0 |
| 2026-07-06 10:04:52 +0000 | <danza> | can you say "addition is a group"? As far as i understand, a group is an algebra. So it cannot be attributed to a single operation but to a set of operations and terms like neutral ones |
| 2026-07-06 10:04:55 +0000 | <int-e> | danza: it turns out that in programming, a ton of things have a semigroup of monoid structure (often in several different useful ways) but few things are groups |
| 2026-07-06 10:05:05 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 243 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 10:05:32 +0000 | <int-e> | danza: you can reconstruct the identity if you have an operation on a non-empty carrier |
| 2026-07-06 10:05:47 +0000 | <int-e> | hmm |
| 2026-07-06 10:08:04 +0000 | eggplantade | (~eggplanta@2600:1702:8450:c370:68e2:8150:e673:9bfc) |
| 2026-07-06 10:08:56 +0000 | <int-e> | danza: Okay, not quite. But if you have a group then you can reconstruct everything from just the binary operation. Like, you know the carrier is non-empty because there is an identity element. So you can pick any element x, then find the identity as the element e satisfying ex = x, and then you get inverses y = x^-1 from solving xy = e. |
| 2026-07-06 10:09:04 +0000 | <int-e> | danza: So it's not as sloppy as it sounds. |
| 2026-07-06 10:09:48 +0000 | <danza> | but you also need `e` |
| 2026-07-06 10:09:57 +0000 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@2a02:3100:629f:1e00:4e50:ddff:fe9b:8922) CiaoSen |
| 2026-07-06 10:10:09 +0000 | <danza> | the difference between a monoid and a semigroup for instance |
| 2026-07-06 10:10:25 +0000 | <danza> | dunno i always understood such classes better as algebras than as categories |
| 2026-07-06 10:11:40 +0000 | <int-e> | Hmm but there's nothing categorical in what I wrote. |
| 2026-07-06 10:11:51 +0000 | <danza> | no, you are right |
| 2026-07-06 10:12:40 +0000 | <danza> | there is just so much talk about category theory in haskell... also fp assumed the terms were stemming from there |
| 2026-07-06 10:15:27 +0000 | <danza> | so i started from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoid_(category_theory), got confused, and eventually settled on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoid |
| 2026-07-06 10:25:55 +0000 | k3ut0i | (~keutoi@182.65.248.188) |
| 2026-07-06 10:30:15 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn |
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| 2026-07-06 10:38:36 +0000 | YuutaW | (~YuutaW@infornography.yta.moe) (Quit: ZNC 1.10.1 - https://znc.in) |
| 2026-07-06 10:38:57 +0000 | YuutaW | (~YuutaW@infornography.yta.moe) YuutaW |
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| 2026-07-06 10:48:33 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn |
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| 2026-07-06 11:04:20 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn |
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| 2026-07-06 11:26:59 +0000 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@2a02:3100:629f:1e00:4e50:ddff:fe9b:8922) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 11:28:34 +0000 | fp | (~Thunderbi@wireless-86-50-141-158.open.aalto.fi) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
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| 2026-07-06 11:31:41 +0000 | confusedalex | (~confuseda@user/confusedalex) confusedalex |
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| 2026-07-06 11:35:38 +0000 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) Lord_of_Life |
| 2026-07-06 11:37:26 +0000 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:340e:2700:ade1:e806:3aae:82f9) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2026-07-06 11:38:00 +0000 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Excess Flood) |
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| 2026-07-06 11:44:14 +0000 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@2a02:3100:629f:1e00:4e50:ddff:fe9b:8922) CiaoSen |
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| 2026-07-06 15:00:25 +0000 | pointlessslippe1 | (~pointless@62.106.85.17) (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in) |
| 2026-07-06 15:01:00 +0000 | pointlessslippe1 | (~pointless@62.106.85.17) pointlessslippe1 |
| 2026-07-06 15:03:47 +0000 | eggplantade | (~eggplanta@2600:1702:8450:c370:68e2:8150:e673:9bfc) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 15:05:10 +0000 | tzh | (~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) tzh |
| 2026-07-06 15:05:22 +0000 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!) |
| 2026-07-06 15:05:22 +0000 | chromoblob | (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 15:07:54 +0000 | chromoblob | (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) chromoblob\0 |
| 2026-07-06 15:14:02 +0000 | k3ut0i | (~keutoi@182.65.248.188) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 15:15:40 +0000 | eggplantade | (~eggplanta@2600:1702:8450:c370:68e2:8150:e673:9bfc) |
| 2026-07-06 15:20:26 +0000 | eggplantade | (~eggplanta@2600:1702:8450:c370:68e2:8150:e673:9bfc) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2026-07-06 15:20:49 +0000 | eggplantade | (~eggplanta@2600:1702:8450:c370:68e2:8150:e673:9bfc) |
| 2026-07-06 15:25:51 +0000 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Excess Flood) |
| 2026-07-06 15:27:51 +0000 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d108-173-95-19.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod |
| 2026-07-06 15:27:51 +0000 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:340e:2700:ade1:e806:3aae:82f9) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2026-07-06 15:30:00 +0000 | xdej | (~xdej@quatramaran.salle-s.org) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2026-07-06 15:34:51 +0000 | dibblego | (~dibblego@haskell/developer/dibblego) (Quit: λ) |
| 2026-07-06 15:35:05 +0000 | dibblego | (~dibblego@157.211.3.209) |
| 2026-07-06 15:35:05 +0000 | dibblego | (~dibblego@157.211.3.209) (Changing host) |
| 2026-07-06 15:35:05 +0000 | dibblego | (~dibblego@haskell/developer/dibblego) dibblego |
| 2026-07-06 15:42:06 +0000 | Guest62 | (~Guest62@p200300ca8f002e00c6458bee9d2609a9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2026-07-06 15:48:22 +0000 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) Lord_of_Life |
| 2026-07-06 15:48:23 +0000 | __monty__ | (~toonn@user/toonn) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2026-07-06 15:52:21 +0000 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Excess Flood) |
| 2026-07-06 16:04:34 +0000 | olivial | (~benjaminl@user/benjaminl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 16:07:54 +0000 | olivial | (~benjaminl@user/benjaminl) benjaminl |
| 2026-07-06 16:13:00 +0000 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:340e:2700:ade1:e806:3aae:82f9) |
| 2026-07-06 16:13:26 +0000 | eggplantade | (~eggplanta@2600:1702:8450:c370:68e2:8150:e673:9bfc) (Ping timeout: 254 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 16:16:40 +0000 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) Lord_of_Life |
| 2026-07-06 16:21:34 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 270 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 16:26:29 +0000 | eggplantade | (~eggplanta@2600:1702:8450:c370:68e2:8150:e673:9bfc) |
| 2026-07-06 16:30:32 +0000 | eggplantade | (~eggplanta@2600:1702:8450:c370:68e2:8150:e673:9bfc) (Ping timeout: 242 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 16:30:58 +0000 | spew | (~spew@user/spew) (Quit: nyaa~) |
| 2026-07-06 16:31:54 +0000 | superbil | (~superbil@114-32-231-70.hinet-ip.hinet.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2026-07-06 16:36:23 +0000 | spew | (~spew@user/spew) spew |
| 2026-07-06 16:36:37 +0000 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:340e:2700:ade1:e806:3aae:82f9) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2026-07-06 16:39:56 +0000 | eggplantade | (~eggplanta@2600:1702:8450:c370:68e2:8150:e673:9bfc) eggplantade |
| 2026-07-06 16:43:49 +0000 | bggd | (~bgg@user/bggd) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2026-07-06 16:49:38 +0000 | superbil | (~superbil@114-32-231-70.hinet-ip.hinet.net) superbil |
| 2026-07-06 16:52:43 +0000 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:340e:2700:ade1:e806:3aae:82f9) |
| 2026-07-06 17:03:14 +0000 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:340e:2700:ade1:e806:3aae:82f9) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2026-07-06 17:03:45 +0000 | sgillespie | (~sgillespi@user/sgillespie) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2026-07-06 17:03:51 +0000 | sgillesp1e | (~sgillespi@69.211.4.248) |
| 2026-07-06 17:04:57 +0000 | sgillesp1e | (~sgillespi@69.211.4.248) (Client Quit) |
| 2026-07-06 17:05:22 +0000 | sgillespie | (~sgillespi@69.211.4.248) |
| 2026-07-06 17:05:35 +0000 | sgillespie | (~sgillespi@69.211.4.248) (Changing host) |
| 2026-07-06 17:05:35 +0000 | sgillespie | (~sgillespi@user/sgillespie) sgillespie |
| 2026-07-06 17:10:26 +0000 | chele | (~chele@user/chele) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2026-07-06 17:17:28 +0000 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:340e:2700:ade1:e806:3aae:82f9) |
| 2026-07-06 17:22:48 +0000 | schuelermine | (~Thunderbi@user/schuelermine) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2026-07-06 17:32:32 +0000 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:340e:2700:ade1:e806:3aae:82f9) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2026-07-06 17:32:49 +0000 | lisbeths | (uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2026-07-06 17:38:31 +0000 | schuelermine | (~Thunderbi@user/schuelermine) schuelermine |
| 2026-07-06 17:52:18 +0000 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:340e:2700:ade1:e806:3aae:82f9) |
| 2026-07-06 17:55:27 +0000 | <monochrom> | (Belated) Mathematicians are as bad as programmers when naming things. Did you know: Monads were just called triples at the beginning? |
| 2026-07-06 17:56:50 +0000 | <monochrom> | And rings were called rings because, only because, the first examples were Z_n, i.e. clock arithmetic, going around in a circle, hence ring. |
| 2026-07-06 17:57:15 +0000 | <monochrom> | i.e. when they thought up "ring" they didn't even think of the infinite case. |
| 2026-07-06 17:57:24 +0000 | <monochrom> | (for example Z itself!) |
| 2026-07-06 17:58:59 +0000 | Psychotic1 | (~Psychotic@2600:1007:b0a8:e79:c038:294a:f677:2cdc) |
| 2026-07-06 18:00:48 +0000 | <Leary> | As far as a mathematician is concerned, a straight line is just a cirle centred at infinity---we're happy to consider Z circular too. |
| 2026-07-06 18:01:17 +0000 | <monochrom> | :( XD |
| 2026-07-06 18:01:56 +0000 | <monochrom> | Another mathematician reminded me that a square is just a circle under a suitable norm. :'( XD |
| 2026-07-06 18:02:57 +0000 | <monochrom> | (That was in the context of ray tracing and how to write nicer code for the cube case. OK so it was "a cube is a sphere under a suitable norm".) |
| 2026-07-06 18:07:01 +0000 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@71.84.33.135) peterbecich |
| 2026-07-06 18:09:09 +0000 | lnxxcya8 | (~lynxx@i577BF0A2.versanet.de) |
| 2026-07-06 18:10:34 +0000 | <EvanR> | at least math people don't rename things for no reason (much) |
| 2026-07-06 18:10:44 +0000 | lnxxcya | (~lynxx@i577BF0A2.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 18:10:44 +0000 | lnxxcya8 | lnxxcya |
| 2026-07-06 18:11:12 +0000 | <EvanR> | why do I need to call the Map, hashtable, associative array, "object" or whatever something new if when I create javascript 701 |
| 2026-07-06 18:12:28 +0000 | <monochrom> | In that case, they were not renaming, they were reinventing. That's the disease of programmers. |
| 2026-07-06 18:13:01 +0000 | <monochrom> | That and the obsession with "plain English". |
| 2026-07-06 18:14:21 +0000 | schuelermine | (~Thunderbi@user/schuelermine) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2026-07-06 18:14:22 +0000 | <dminuoso> | Leary: Out of curiosity, is that statement more of a joke or is there useful insights from that perspective of a straight line? |
| 2026-07-06 18:16:15 +0000 | eggplantade | (~eggplanta@2600:1702:8450:c370:68e2:8150:e673:9bfc) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
