IRCBrowse

2026/01/05

2026-01-05 00:02:59 +0000ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2026-01-05 00:04:02 +0000 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> sm: what is sad about a stable and well working GHC release?
2026-01-05 00:04:40 +0000 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> Should we switch to 9.8 which is abandoned or to 9.10 which has two minor broken releases (including the last one)?
2026-01-05 00:05:07 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-01-05 00:05:17 +0000 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> 'recommended' isn't for people who want to follow the latest releases.
2026-01-05 00:06:57 +0000 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> Sorry, 9.12 is the one that's broken... I'm starting to mix up all the broken releases
2026-01-05 00:10:01 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2026-01-05 00:10:11 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> @maerwald that's a fine thing of course. I acknowledged the no doubt excellent reasons in the linked discussion with my thumbs up. I called it sad mainly because as an experienced haskeller I expect many difficulties building current projects or using tools, and many known limitations, with those older ghc versions.
2026-01-05 00:10:15 +0000 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> 9.6 is documented as suitable for use: https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/GHC-status
2026-01-05 00:10:41 +0000 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> sm: What difficulties?
2026-01-05 00:12:15 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> i don't have a list handy. But in my time as a maintainer and packager I've worked around a ton of ghc version and platform specific bugs or limitations
2026-01-05 00:14:21 +0000 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> What limitations?
2026-01-05 00:14:38 +0000 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> Why is 9.6 more limited than 9.10?
2026-01-05 00:15:58 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> I did not prepare a list in advance of this chat have forgotten them for the moment. I could go digging in my issue tracker but it's not important
2026-01-05 00:18:15 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-01-05 00:19:24 +0000 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> If you make this claim then I think it's important
2026-01-05 00:20:18 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> I mean, I would make the effort if you are truly considering bumping the recommendation. I assume you've seen them all though and will bump when you judge best
2026-01-05 00:20:30 +0000 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> My experience in 10 years of Haskell shows that the difficulties and limitations lie within NEW GHC versions.
2026-01-05 00:20:41 +0000 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> There's a whole github repo dedicated to it
2026-01-05 00:21:07 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> of course those exist too
2026-01-05 00:21:23 +0000 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> https://github.com/tomjaguarpaw/tilapia
2026-01-05 00:21:34 +0000 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> And tooling works fine with 9.6
2026-01-05 00:21:46 +0000 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> It doesn't work as fine with new GHC versions
2026-01-05 00:21:50 +0000 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> That's a fact
2026-01-05 00:22:24 +0000 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> So I think your claim is wrong
2026-01-05 00:23:22 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2026-01-05 00:23:27 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> fair enough, I won't argue with you
2026-01-05 00:25:16 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> and as always, thank you for your work, it's appreciated
2026-01-05 00:27:36 +0000 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> But going forward, GHCup will follow GHCs official LTS releases most likely
2026-01-05 00:27:53 +0000 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> Once they've matured, that is
2026-01-05 00:28:11 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> that'll be great, I'm looking forward to it
2026-01-05 00:28:52 +0000 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> An LTS release is decided beforehand with no knowledge about its quality. So we'll probably wait until the micro version is at 3 or higher
2026-01-05 00:30:35 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> or if it's so good there's no minor release for a year, you might make an exception ?
2026-01-05 00:32:08 +0000GdeVolpiano(~GdeVolpia@user/GdeVolpiano) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2026-01-05 00:32:15 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> rather unlikely I suppose
2026-01-05 00:32:49 +0000zlqrvx(~zlqrvx@user/zlqrvx) (Quit: connection reset by purr)
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2026-01-05 01:09:49 +0000jmcantrell_(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
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2026-01-05 01:20:10 +0000Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@88-114-88-95.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.)
2026-01-05 01:20:37 +0000 <oats> why does so much code in base and ghc use `case` for binding instead of `let` or `where`? like here: https://hackage-content.haskell.org/package/ghc-internal-9.1401.0/docs/src/GHC.Internal.Arr.html#n…
2026-01-05 01:21:14 +0000 <c_wraith> let/where create a thunk when they match on a pattern. case forces evaluation.
2026-01-05 01:21:38 +0000 <c_wraith> > let Just x = Nothing in ()
2026-01-05 01:21:38 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-01-05 01:22:25 +0000 <c_wraith> huh. lambdabot isn't in here right now
2026-01-05 01:22:53 +0000 <EvanR> let x = whatever in y, a thunk makes sense
2026-01-05 01:23:15 +0000 <EvanR> but let Pattern x y z = hopefullyPattern in e ?
2026-01-05 01:23:30 +0000 <EvanR> doesn't immediately evaluate?
2026-01-05 01:23:32 +0000 <c_wraith> Well, anyway. (let Just x = Nothing in ()) evaluates to (). (case Nothing of Just x -> ()) is a pattern match error.
2026-01-05 01:24:09 +0000 <EvanR> % let Just x = Nothing in ()
2026-01-05 01:24:09 +0000 <yahb2> <interactive>:153:5: warning: [GHC-53633] [-Woverlapping-patterns] ; Pattern match is redundant ; In a pattern binding: Just x = ... ; ; ()
2026-01-05 01:24:21 +0000lambdabot(~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot) lambdabot
2026-01-05 01:24:21 +0000ChanServ+v lambdabot
2026-01-05 01:24:49 +0000divlamir(~divlamir@user/divlamir) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2026-01-05 01:24:57 +0000 <c_wraith> EvanR: Irrefutable matches just create thunks. and in a let/where, matches are irrefutable by default.
2026-01-05 01:25:00 +0000divlamir(~divlamir@user/divlamir) divlamir
2026-01-05 01:26:15 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2026-01-05 01:26:26 +0000 <EvanR> wow
2026-01-05 01:27:34 +0000 <c_wraith> > case undefined of ~(a, b) -> () -- you can use ~ to make a match in a case irrefutable
2026-01-05 01:27:35 +0000 <lambdabot> ()
2026-01-05 01:27:59 +0000jj_(~apropos@node-1w7jr9pqogh9vahu1mvneock5.ipv6.telus.net) omentic
2026-01-05 01:28:00 +0000 <oats> % case undefined of (a,b) -> ()
2026-01-05 01:28:00 +0000 <yahb2> *** Exception: Prelude.undefined ; ; HasCallStack backtrace: ; undefined, called at <interactive>:155:6 in interactive:Ghci16
2026-01-05 01:28:11 +0000 <int-e> it probably got blocked by +r
2026-01-05 01:28:39 +0000jj(~apropos@d154-20-120-135.bchsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2026-01-05 01:28:39 +0000jj_jj
2026-01-05 01:28:40 +0000 <int-e> (lamdbabot was perfectly alive, just not joined here)
2026-01-05 01:28:50 +0000 <c_wraith> int-e: ah, you're still running lambdabot? I wasn't sure.
2026-01-05 01:29:09 +0000 <oats> and irrefutable patterns are lazy?
2026-01-05 01:29:40 +0000 <oats> % case undefined of ~(a,b) -> b
2026-01-05 01:29:40 +0000 <yahb2> *** Exception: Prelude.undefined ; ; HasCallStack backtrace: ; undefined, called at <interactive>:157:6 in interactive:Ghci16
2026-01-05 01:29:49 +0000 <oats> t'would appear
2026-01-05 01:29:56 +0000 <c_wraith> Yeah. "irrefutable" is a slightly weird way of saying "trust the programmer, you don't need to check this immediately"
2026-01-05 01:30:33 +0000 <int-e> c_wraith: yes
2026-01-05 01:31:47 +0000 <haskellbridge> <loonycyborg> How can you make patterns in let and where refutable?
2026-01-05 01:31:49 +0000 <haskellbridge> <loonycyborg> Like you said they're irrefutable "by default"
2026-01-05 01:32:14 +0000 <c_wraith> loonycyborg: You need the BangPatterns extension, then you mark the match with !
2026-01-05 01:33:17 +0000 <haskellbridge> <loonycyborg> Ah makes sense I guess
2026-01-05 01:33:33 +0000 <haskellbridge> <loonycyborg> and what happens in case of non-exhaustive match at runtime?
2026-01-05 01:33:45 +0000 <haskellbridge> <loonycyborg> Same thing as usual?
2026-01-05 01:34:02 +0000 <c_wraith> yeah, just the usual error about a pattern match failure
2026-01-05 01:34:16 +0000 <haskellbridge> <loonycyborg> Sometimes should be converted into "fail"
2026-01-05 01:34:30 +0000 <c_wraith> If it's on the left side of <- in a do block, yes
2026-01-05 01:34:47 +0000 <oats> %let Just x = (Nothing :: Maybe Int) in x
2026-01-05 01:35:01 +0000 <oats> % let Just x = (Nothing :: Maybe Int) in x
2026-01-05 01:35:01 +0000 <yahb2> <interactive>:159:5: warning: [GHC-53633] [-Woverlapping-patterns] ; Pattern match is redundant ; In a pattern binding: Just x = ... ; ; *** Exception: <interactive>:159:5-35: Non-exhausti...
2026-01-05 01:35:13 +0000 <haskellbridge> <loonycyborg> but ye, irrefutable and lazy are connected.
2026-01-05 01:37:06 +0000 <haskellbridge> <loonycyborg> Those seem to be really different things though, so it smells like some theoretical insight here could be made..
2026-01-05 01:37:12 +0000 <int-e> oats: as recently as GHC 8.8.4, ghc would choke on `let i = 1#` (with or without bang)
2026-01-05 01:37:25 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-01-05 01:38:10 +0000 <c_wraith> there are also things like GADT matching, where GHC just won't compile code that matches a GADT constructor in a let/where
2026-01-05 01:38:11 +0000 <int-e> So up to that point, `case` was the only way to do this. `case` is also clearer about the order of operations.
2026-01-05 01:38:49 +0000 <haskellbridge> <loonycyborg> case is one of few constructs that aren't syntactic sugar for something else.
2026-01-05 01:39:13 +0000 <oats> % do { x <- [1..10]; if (x == 5) then fail "bleh" else pure (); pure x }
2026-01-05 01:39:13 +0000 <yahb2> [1,2,3,4,6,7,8,9,10]
2026-01-05 01:40:33 +0000 <oats> % do { Just x <- [Just 1, Nothing]; pure x }
2026-01-05 01:40:33 +0000 <yahb2> [1]
2026-01-05 01:41:05 +0000 <oats> wonder what that desugars to
2026-01-05 01:41:31 +0000 <c_wraith> the report actually specifies that.
2026-01-05 01:41:37 +0000 <int-e> @undo do { Just x <- [Just 1, Nothing]; pure x }
2026-01-05 01:41:37 +0000 <lambdabot> [Just 1, Nothing] >>= \ a -> case a of { Just x -> pure x; _ -> fail ""}
2026-01-05 01:41:45 +0000 <oats> int-e: I'm not super clear on #, that's an unboxed integer right?
2026-01-05 01:42:25 +0000 <Axman6> and fail str = [] for []
2026-01-05 01:42:34 +0000 <oats> @undo [x | Just x <- [Just 1, Nothing] ]
2026-01-05 01:42:34 +0000 <lambdabot> concatMap (\ a -> case a of { Just x -> [x]; _ -> []}) [Just 1, Nothing]
2026-01-05 01:42:43 +0000 <int-e> oats: Int (machine word sized), yes.
2026-01-05 01:42:53 +0000 <oats> interesting, I thought list comprehensions were special in some way
2026-01-05 01:42:56 +0000 <oats> don't remember who told me that
2026-01-05 01:43:22 +0000 <c_wraith> You don't have to write pure. :)
2026-01-05 01:43:53 +0000 <oats> ?
2026-01-05 01:43:57 +0000humasect(~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) humasect
2026-01-05 01:44:16 +0000 <c_wraith> [ x | x <- foo ] as opposed to do { x <- foo ; pure x }
2026-01-05 01:44:28 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2026-01-05 01:45:00 +0000 <oats> oh I was just trying out desugaring list comprehensions, because I thought I remembered someone telling me they were special to ghc in some way
2026-01-05 01:45:37 +0000 <c_wraith> technically they are, but not in a way that influences semantics. There are some performance optimizations.
2026-01-05 01:46:10 +0000 <c_wraith> and @undo doesn't give you what GHC does. It is an independent reimplementation of the rules from the Haskell report.
2026-01-05 01:46:43 +0000ChanServ+o geekosaur
2026-01-05 01:46:51 +0000 <oats> gotcha, thanks
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2026-01-05 03:45:19 +0000weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2026-01-05 03:45:38 +0000weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) user363627
2026-01-05 03:45:40 +0000CloneOfNone_(~CloneOfNo@user/CloneOfNone) CloneOfNone
2026-01-05 03:45:56 +0000kimiamania991(~67ff9c12@user/kimiamania) kimiamania
2026-01-05 03:46:04 +0000vetkat5(~vetkat@user/vetkat) vetkat
2026-01-05 03:46:04 +0000emergence3(~emergence@vm0.max-p.me) emergence
2026-01-05 03:46:34 +0000gabiruh(~gabiruh@vps19177.publiccloud.com.br) gabiruh
2026-01-05 03:46:55 +0000DetourNe-(~DetourNet@user/DetourNetworkUK) DetourNetworkUK
2026-01-05 03:47:17 +0000ycp_(~znc@user/dragestil) dragestil
2026-01-05 03:47:22 +0000tomku(~tomku@user/tomku) tomku
2026-01-05 03:48:30 +0000yin_(~zero@user/zero) zero
2026-01-05 03:48:32 +0000larsivi2(~larsivi@user/larsivi) larsivi
2026-01-05 03:48:58 +0000preflex_(~preflex@user/mauke/bot/preflex) preflex
2026-01-05 03:49:14 +0000omidmash4(~omidmash@user/omidmash) omidmash
2026-01-05 03:49:27 +0000distopico_(~cerdolibr@xvm-111-150.dc2.ghst.net) distopico
2026-01-05 03:49:29 +0000hololeap_(~quassel@user/hololeap) hololeap
2026-01-05 03:49:33 +0000Fijxu(~Fijxu@user/fijxu) fijxu
2026-01-05 03:49:36 +0000opqdonut1_(opqdonut@pseudo.fixme.fi)
2026-01-05 03:49:40 +0000byorgey_(~byorgey@155.138.238.211)
2026-01-05 03:49:40 +0000byorgey_(~byorgey@155.138.238.211) (Changing host)
2026-01-05 03:49:40 +0000byorgey_(~byorgey@user/byorgey) byorgey
2026-01-05 03:49:44 +0000elarks_(~elarks@user/yerrii) yerrii
2026-01-05 03:50:14 +0000finstern1s(~X@23.226.237.192) finsternis
2026-01-05 03:50:27 +0000fgarcia_(~lei@user/fgarcia) fgarcia
2026-01-05 03:50:39 +0000jreicher(~user@user/jreicher) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2026-01-05 03:50:39 +0000vetkat(~vetkat@user/vetkat) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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2026-01-05 03:50:40 +0000elarks(~elarks@user/yerrii) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2026-01-05 03:50:40 +0000preflex(~preflex@user/mauke/bot/preflex) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2026-01-05 03:50:40 +0000byorgey(~byorgey@user/byorgey) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2026-01-05 03:50:40 +0000opqdonut__(opqdonut@pseudo.fixme.fi) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2026-01-05 03:50:40 +0000DetourNetworkUK(~DetourNet@user/DetourNetworkUK) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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2026-01-05 03:50:40 +0000CloneOfNone(~CloneOfNo@user/CloneOfNone) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2026-01-05 03:50:40 +0000emergence(emergence@vm0.max-p.me) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2026-01-05 03:50:40 +0000ycp(~znc@user/dragestil) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2026-01-05 03:50:40 +0000arandombit(~arandombi@user/arandombit) (Remote host closed the connection)
2026-01-05 03:50:41 +0000omidmash(~omidmash@user/omidmash) (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds))
2026-01-05 03:50:41 +0000finsternis(~X@23.226.237.192) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2026-01-05 03:50:41 +0000fgarcia(~lei@user/fgarcia) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2026-01-05 03:50:41 +0000distopico(~cerdolibr@2001:4b98:dc2:41:216:3eff:fe6c:52a1) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2026-01-05 03:50:41 +0000machinedgod(~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2026-01-05 03:50:41 +0000gabiruh_(~gabiruh@vps19177.publiccloud.com.br) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2026-01-05 03:50:41 +0000stefan-__(~m-yh2rcc@42dots.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2026-01-05 03:50:41 +0000distopico_distopico
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2026-01-05 03:50:41 +0000kimiamania991kimiamania99
2026-01-05 03:50:41 +0000emergence3emergence
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2026-01-05 03:50:41 +0000vetkat5vetkat
2026-01-05 03:50:41 +0000yin_yin
2026-01-05 03:50:41 +0000DetourNe-DetourNetworkUK
2026-01-05 03:50:44 +0000fgarcia_(~lei@user/fgarcia) (Max SendQ exceeded)
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2026-01-05 03:50:52 +0000preflex_preflex
2026-01-05 03:50:57 +0000machinedgod(~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod
2026-01-05 03:51:02 +0000arandombit(~arandombi@2603:7000:4600:ffbe:e018:2291:d659:5626)
2026-01-05 03:51:03 +0000arandombit(~arandombi@2603:7000:4600:ffbe:e018:2291:d659:5626) (Changing host)
2026-01-05 03:51:03 +0000arandombit(~arandombi@user/arandombit) arandombit
2026-01-05 03:51:18 +0000jreicher(~user@user/jreicher) jreicher
2026-01-05 03:51:20 +0000fgarcia(~lei@user/fgarcia) fgarcia
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2026-01-05 03:52:50 +0000stefan-__(~m-yh2rcc@42dots.de) stefan-__
2026-01-05 03:53:15 +0000fgarcia(~lei@user/fgarcia) fgarcia
2026-01-05 03:53:52 +0000fgarcia(~lei@user/fgarcia) (Max SendQ exceeded)
2026-01-05 03:54:29 +0000fgarcia(~lei@user/fgarcia) fgarcia
2026-01-05 03:54:46 +0000fgarcia(~lei@user/fgarcia) (Max SendQ exceeded)
2026-01-05 03:55:33 +0000fgarcia(~lei@user/fgarcia) fgarcia
2026-01-05 03:56:07 +0000fgarcia(~lei@user/fgarcia) (Client Quit)
2026-01-05 03:59:26 +0000vetkat6(~vetkat@user/vetkat) vetkat
2026-01-05 04:00:07 +0000pabs3(~pabs3@user/pabs3) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2026-01-05 04:00:18 +0000jj(~apropos@node-1w7jr9pqogh9vahu1mvneock5.ipv6.telus.net) omentic
2026-01-05 04:03:08 +0000machinedgod(~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2026-01-05 04:03:08 +0000notzmv(~umar@user/notzmv) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2026-01-05 04:03:09 +0000igemnace(~igemnace@user/igemnace) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2026-01-05 04:03:09 +0000vetkat(~vetkat@user/vetkat) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2026-01-05 04:03:09 +0000yin(~zero@user/zero) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2026-01-05 04:03:16 +0000igemnace(~igemnace@user/igemnace) igemnace
2026-01-05 04:03:33 +0000enikar(~enikar@user/enikar) (*.net *.split)
2026-01-05 04:03:33 +0000elenril(~elenril@tutturu.khirnov.net) (*.net *.split)
2026-01-05 04:03:45 +0000chromoblob(~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) chromoblob\0
2026-01-05 04:03:58 +0000yin(~zero@user/zero) zero
2026-01-05 04:04:36 +0000enikar(~enikar@user/enikar) enikar
2026-01-05 04:04:36 +0000elenril(~elenril@tutturu.khirnov.net) elenril
2026-01-05 04:06:23 +0000lambdabot(~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2026-01-05 04:07:22 +0000vetkat6(~vetkat@user/vetkat) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2026-01-05 04:07:53 +0000machinedgod(~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod
2026-01-05 04:08:01 +0000lambdabot(~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot) lambdabot
2026-01-05 04:08:01 +0000ChanServ+v lambdabot
2026-01-05 04:09:15 +0000pabs3(~pabs3@user/pabs3) pabs3
2026-01-05 04:18:19 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-01-05 04:21:30 +0000gorignak(~gorignak@user/gorignak) gorignak
2026-01-05 04:21:48 +0000fgarcia(~lei@user/fgarcia) fgarcia
2026-01-05 04:22:55 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2026-01-05 04:26:36 +0000mange(~mange@user/mange) (Quit: Quittin' time!)
2026-01-05 04:34:06 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-01-05 04:38:55 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2026-01-05 04:49:41 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-01-05 04:55:38 +0000sp1ff(~user@2601:1c2:4701:900::327f) sp1ff
2026-01-05 04:59:43 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2026-01-05 05:01:15 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-01-05 05:06:03 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2026-01-05 05:17:02 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-01-05 05:20:13 +0000xff0x(~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp)
2026-01-05 05:22:49 +0000chromoblob(~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2026-01-05 05:23:28 +0000chromoblob(~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) chromoblob\0
2026-01-05 05:24:04 +0000chromoblob(~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2026-01-05 05:25:47 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2026-01-05 05:29:31 +0000chromoblob(~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) chromoblob\0
2026-01-05 05:30:25 +0000haritz(~hrtz@user/haritz) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1+deb12u1 - https://znc.in)
2026-01-05 05:34:21 +0000chromoblob(~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2026-01-05 05:34:41 +0000chromoblob(~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) chromoblob\0
2026-01-05 05:39:28 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-01-05 05:43:58 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2026-01-05 05:50:58 +0000jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2026-01-05 05:56:20 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-01-05 06:00:46 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2026-01-05 06:03:28 +0000michalz(~michalz@185.246.207.221)
2026-01-05 06:12:10 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-01-05 06:16:51 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2026-01-05 06:21:36 +0000takuan(~takuan@d8D86B9E9.access.telenet.be)
2026-01-05 06:30:14 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-01-05 06:36:35 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2026-01-05 06:36:57 +0000annamalai(~annamalai@157.32.116.118) annamalai
2026-01-05 06:43:41 +0000AlexZenon(~alzenon@178.34.150.138)
2026-01-05 06:51:37 +0000machinedgod(~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2026-01-05 07:02:15 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-01-05 07:07:02 +0000weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) (Remote host closed the connection)
2026-01-05 07:07:03 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2026-01-05 07:12:15 +0000sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) sord937
2026-01-05 07:20:11 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-01-05 07:22:03 +0000CloneOfNone(~CloneOfNo@user/CloneOfNone) CloneOfNone
2026-01-05 07:22:07 +0000CloneOfNone_(~CloneOfNo@user/CloneOfNone) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2026-01-05 07:22:55 +0000annamalai(~annamalai@157.32.116.118) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2026-01-05 07:25:02 +0000trickard_trickard
2026-01-05 07:26:36 +0000annamalai(~annamalai@157.32.116.118) annamalai
2026-01-05 07:27:16 +0000jreicher(~user@user/jreicher) (Quit: In transit)
2026-01-05 07:29:11 +0000Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2026-01-05 07:31:31 +0000annamalai(~annamalai@157.32.116.118) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2026-01-05 07:36:32 +0000annamalai(~annamalai@157.32.133.19) annamalai
2026-01-05 07:43:04 +0000peterbecich(~Thunderbi@71.84.33.135) peterbecich
2026-01-05 07:44:02 +0000synchrom1(~john@2406:5a00:2412:2c00:c18e:f5b0:111e:69da) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2026-01-05 07:44:30 +0000synchromesh(~john@2406:5a00:2412:2c00:c18e:f5b0:111e:69da) synchromesh
2026-01-05 07:46:26 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> this is really interesting as an intellectual exercise
2026-01-05 07:48:54 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> i'm currently trying to specify a program as a type, such that the type of this value can be generated by AI; the initial plan is to bootstrap itself, by creating a harness that can, given a spec file, be able to use AI to generate a program that satisfies the type&test constraints
2026-01-05 07:49:37 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> ironically it feels like a free monad interpreter is the only sane way to actually type it, because i don't want the AI generating arbitrary effects
2026-01-05 07:56:35 +0000chele(~chele@user/chele) chele
2026-01-05 08:02:48 +0000annamalai(~annamalai@157.32.133.19) (Remote host closed the connection)
2026-01-05 08:03:13 +0000annamalai(~annamalai@157.32.133.19) annamalai
2026-01-05 08:05:22 +0000tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:ad7d:11db:9b25:5b85)
2026-01-05 08:06:15 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2026-01-05 08:06:44 +0000wickedjargon(~user@64.114.24.74) wickedjargon
2026-01-05 08:07:26 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-01-05 08:23:34 +0000tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:ad7d:11db:9b25:5b85) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2026-01-05 08:28:32 +0000 <merijn> Liamzee: That sounds like you're just trying to reinvent Epigram but with AI :p
2026-01-05 08:29:40 +0000kuribas(~user@2a02-1810-2825-6000-a122-c68a-b511-6946.ip6.access.telenet.be) kuribas
2026-01-05 08:29:44 +0000tv(~tv@user/tv) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2026-01-05 08:36:23 +0000peterbecich(~Thunderbi@71.84.33.135) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2026-01-05 08:38:56 +0000trickard(~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2026-01-05 08:39:09 +0000trickard_(~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2026-01-05 08:39:18 +0000 <hc> What's the stateless way to wish you all a happy new year?
2026-01-05 08:41:57 +0000fgarcia(~lei@user/fgarcia) (Quit: Remote host closed the connection)
2026-01-05 08:42:30 +0000 <Vq> There are none, wishes are treated as to be effectful (even when they are not).
2026-01-05 08:43:00 +0000tv(~tv@user/tv) tv
2026-01-05 08:45:05 +0000emmanuelux(~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) (Remote host closed the connection)
2026-01-05 08:48:40 +0000 <gentauro> hc: you are "broadcasting" hereby you are performing multiple effects ;)
2026-01-05 08:51:13 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2026-01-05 08:53:24 +0000karenw(~karenw@user/karenw) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2026-01-05 08:55:56 +0000__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) toonn
2026-01-05 08:59:21 +0000 <hc> Vq: haha :)
2026-01-05 09:07:16 +0000Inline(~User@cgn-195-14-221-74.nc.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
2026-01-05 09:12:30 +0000trickard_(~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2026-01-05 09:12:43 +0000trickard_(~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2026-01-05 09:15:04 +0000CiaoSen(~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) CiaoSen
2026-01-05 09:16:03 +0000Inline(~User@cgn-195-14-221-74.nc.de) Inline
2026-01-05 09:27:40 +0000carbolymer_carbolymer
2026-01-05 09:28:46 +0000trickard_trickard
2026-01-05 09:44:37 +0000trickard(~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2026-01-05 09:44:51 +0000trickard_(~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2026-01-05 09:50:04 +0000acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7171955d8ad2266737cd07c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk
2026-01-05 09:51:56 +0000Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@88-114-88-95.elisa-laajakaista.fi) Tuplanolla
2026-01-05 09:56:15 +0000Inline(~User@cgn-195-14-221-74.nc.de) (Quit: KVIrc 5.2.6 Quasar http://www.kvirc.net/)
2026-01-05 10:22:33 +0000xff0x(~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2026-01-05 10:26:56 +0000vidak(~vidak@2407:e400:7800:2c01:d0be:76f8:cc84:bd4a) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2026-01-05 10:34:14 +0000humasect(~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) humasect
2026-01-05 10:35:46 +0000takuan(~takuan@d8D86B9E9.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
2026-01-05 10:36:58 +0000takuan(~takuan@d8D86B9E9.access.telenet.be)
2026-01-05 10:38:10 +0000GdeVolpi1(~GdeVolpia@user/GdeVolpiano) GdeVolpiano
2026-01-05 10:38:14 +0000GdeVolpiano(~GdeVolpia@user/GdeVolpiano) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2026-01-05 10:38:59 +0000trickard_(~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2026-01-05 10:39:12 +0000trickard_(~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2026-01-05 10:39:22 +0000humasect(~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2026-01-05 10:44:33 +0000trickard_trickard
2026-01-05 10:47:34 +0000pavonia(~user@user/siracusa) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2026-01-05 10:47:46 +0000wickedjargon(~user@64.114.24.74) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2026-01-05 10:48:59 +0000joelr(~joelr@user/jreicher) jreicher
2026-01-05 10:49:09 +0000haritz(~hrtz@2a01:4b00:bc2e:7000:d5af:a266:ca31:5ef8)
2026-01-05 10:49:09 +0000haritz(~hrtz@2a01:4b00:bc2e:7000:d5af:a266:ca31:5ef8) (Changing host)
2026-01-05 10:49:09 +0000haritz(~hrtz@user/haritz) haritz
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2026-01-05 17:10:10 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> thanks for the suggestion merijn!
2026-01-05 17:15:18 +0000ouilemur(~jgmerritt@user/ouilemur) ouilemur
2026-01-05 17:17:53 +0000 <monochrom> Year -> (Happy, Year) :)
2026-01-05 17:18:33 +0000 <monochrom> (Belated stateless way to say happy new year)
2026-01-05 17:20:20 +0000machinedgod(~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod
2026-01-05 17:20:29 +0000gorignak(~gorignak@user/gorignak) (Quit: quit)
2026-01-05 17:20:37 +0000 <monochrom> (I thought of that because lately I've been looking at GHC's control0# which is very explicity State# RealWorld -> (# a, State# RealWorld #) etc.)
2026-01-05 17:20:45 +0000gorignak(~gorignak@user/gorignak) gorignak
2026-01-05 17:23:58 +0000poscat(~poscat@user/poscat) poscat
2026-01-05 17:24:23 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-01-05 17:25:31 +0000 <haskellbridge> <doc> it's interesting how the IO state monad goes s -> (s,a) while the library state monad goes s -> (a,s)... the former looks better and works better with the (s,) functor but i've gotten more used to the latter due to exposure
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2026-01-05 19:39:32 +0000Lord_of_Life_Lord_of_Life
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2026-01-05 19:54:35 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-01-05 19:57:01 +0000ouilemur(~jgmerritt@user/ouilemur) (Quit: WeeChat 4.8.1)
2026-01-05 20:01:02 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2026-01-05 20:10:38 +0000ouilemur(~jgmerritt@user/ouilemur) ouilemur
2026-01-05 20:10:46 +0000 <Milan_Vanca> Hello guyz! Is offtopic harshly punished in this channel? :D
2026-01-05 20:11:23 +0000 <monochrom> No. But #haskell-offtopic is better.
2026-01-05 20:11:23 +0000 <geekosaur> depends on what else is going on, but #haskell-offtopic is preferred
2026-01-05 20:12:16 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Morj> If only haskell-offtopic was bridged :'-(
2026-01-05 20:12:30 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Morj> One day I will install an irc client on my work mac and you'll all see
2026-01-05 20:12:39 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-01-05 20:12:54 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> Textual is a good one
2026-01-05 20:13:20 +0000 <Milan_Vanca> From where are you bridged from guyz?
2026-01-05 20:13:33 +0000Inline(~Inline@cgn-195-14-217-181.nc.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2026-01-05 20:14:01 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Morj> Haskell has a community in matrix: https://matrix.to/#/#haskell:matrix.org
2026-01-05 20:14:02 +0000 <monochrom> telnet irc.libera.chat 6667
2026-01-05 20:14:41 +0000 <geekosaur> that's not what's bridged, by their request. it's #haskell-irc:matrix.org instead
2026-01-05 20:15:48 +0000 <Milan_Vanca> Ty for info :)
2026-01-05 20:15:50 +0000 <geekosaur> I could bridge -offtopic but I suspect various denizens wouldn't like the idea much
2026-01-05 20:17:13 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2026-01-05 20:22:09 +0000Pozyomka(~pyon@user/pyon) (Quit: brb)
2026-01-05 20:22:29 +0000Inline(~Inline@cgn-195-14-217-181.nc.de) Inline
2026-01-05 20:22:53 +0000jreicher(~user@user/jreicher) jreicher
2026-01-05 20:28:24 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-01-05 20:32:58 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2026-01-05 20:43:50 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2026-01-05 20:56:48 +0000 <jreicher> Morj: what's the holdup getting an IRC client? The IRC ecosystem is one of the simplest on the internet. Most things are easy to set up and work really well.
2026-01-05 20:57:43 +0000 <monochrom> The networking effect implies that people want popular not simple.
2026-01-05 20:57:51 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-01-05 20:58:40 +0000 <monochrom> If 90% of your friends use Facebook for example then you're very inclined to adopt Facebook even though it is the biggest mess in all aspects on the planet.
2026-01-05 20:58:41 +0000 <geekosaur> on a mac, that probably means textual
2026-01-05 20:58:49 +0000 <geekosaur> heh
2026-01-05 20:59:11 +0000 <tomsmeding> jreicher: "yet another client to install"?
2026-01-05 21:00:29 +0000Miroboru(~myrvoll@188.113.115.67) Miroboru
2026-01-05 21:00:42 +0000 <monochrom> That reminds me. Perhaps most people's "simple" means "minimum number of apps compatible with most friends". This is known as max-flow-min-cut. >:)
2026-01-05 21:01:57 +0000myme(~myme@2a01:799:d5e:5f00:349b:2339:b48a:61c6) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2026-01-05 21:02:34 +0000 <monochrom> This also explains adoption of programming languages. The minimum number of languages to learn such that...
2026-01-05 21:02:35 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2026-01-05 21:02:39 +0000myme(~myme@2a01:799:d5e:5f00:ff65:28ea:98bb:7f03) myme
2026-01-05 21:03:26 +0000 <tomsmeding> ... such that you can annoy the most people by using the wrong language?
2026-01-05 21:03:31 +0000 <monochrom> haha
2026-01-05 21:05:29 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Morj> jreicher too much choice, combined with 95% of the choices being so dissappointing as to stop the whole process
2026-01-05 21:05:44 +0000 <tomsmeding> what matrix client do you use?
2026-01-05 21:06:04 +0000 <dolio> Yeah, isn't that exactly a description of matrix clients?
2026-01-05 21:06:06 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Morj> A bad one, as they all are :D
2026-01-05 21:06:10 +0000 <monochrom> IRC is so simple it can be fundamentally disapointing to young people to be honest.
2026-01-05 21:06:13 +0000 <tomsmeding> dolio: that's why I was asking :D
2026-01-05 21:06:38 +0000 <EvanR> monochrom, is this why if I want encryption on IRC I have to uses SSL xD (the most popular encryption but not simple)
2026-01-05 21:06:41 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Morj> The simplicity of irc makes it worse because the voice in my head tells me to write my own
2026-01-05 21:07:11 +0000 <tomsmeding> https://tools.suckless.org/ii/
2026-01-05 21:07:13 +0000 <monochrom> e.g., no images, no code snippet, no PDF, no TeX, no emojis, no this, no that...
2026-01-05 21:07:19 +0000 <EvanR> on the subject of writing your own IRC client ... you have to have encryption now
2026-01-05 21:07:33 +0000 <EvanR> creating a big gap
2026-01-05 21:07:56 +0000 <mauke> I do?
2026-01-05 21:08:05 +0000 <EvanR> on libera isn't it required
2026-01-05 21:08:13 +0000 <monochrom> I think it's s/SSL/TLS/ strictly speaking but yeah.
2026-01-05 21:08:41 +0000 <tomsmeding> why did they rename that again
2026-01-05 21:08:44 +0000 <monochrom> No it isn't required on libera.
2026-01-05 21:08:50 +0000 <EvanR> oh good
2026-01-05 21:09:04 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Morj> If it's tls then it's simple to use a library, if it's something on top of openssl routines it could be annoying to get right
2026-01-05 21:09:06 +0000 <jreicher> All fair comments. I don't use the "popular" clients at all, but I forget that not everyone is as prepared to be unpopular. :p
2026-01-05 21:09:26 +0000 <mauke> I was wondering how preflex was still online
2026-01-05 21:09:28 +0000 <EvanR> if unpopular isn't too much work I'm all for it
2026-01-05 21:09:45 +0000 <jreicher> It might make running for president a bit a tricky.
2026-01-05 21:10:02 +0000 <EvanR> looks at the presidents approval rating
2026-01-05 21:10:07 +0000 <EvanR> seems fine
2026-01-05 21:10:32 +0000 <Milan_Vanca> Encryption on IRC is useless when channels are public either way.
2026-01-05 21:10:44 +0000 <EvanR> big thonk on that one
2026-01-05 21:10:52 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Morj> Authentication is useful still
2026-01-05 21:10:56 +0000 <jreicher> Isn't it more for MitM?
2026-01-05 21:11:01 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Morj> Exactly
2026-01-05 21:11:03 +0000 <EvanR> this is false, because you don't want your chat to be altered along the way
2026-01-05 21:11:09 +0000trickard_trickard
2026-01-05 21:11:12 +0000 <mauke> I don't?
2026-01-05 21:11:42 +0000 <Milan_Vanca> EvanR: hmm..
2026-01-05 21:11:42 +0000 <EvanR> you keep man in the middling my pronouns
2026-01-05 21:12:47 +0000 <EvanR> message integrity codes
2026-01-05 21:13:15 +0000 <monochrom> IMO I don't need encryption or authentication for my IRC because other people don't have economic incentives to do MiTM on my IRC for example.
2026-01-05 21:13:29 +0000 <EvanR> what was that giant attack on christmas
2026-01-05 21:13:34 +0000 <EvanR> economic incentive?
2026-01-05 21:13:37 +0000 <EvanR> xD
2026-01-05 21:13:39 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-01-05 21:13:53 +0000 <EvanR> people will do shit for free
2026-01-05 21:14:05 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Morj> Which attack?
2026-01-05 21:14:19 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Morj> But in case of mitm you have to be in the middle, and that's hard for a script kiddie
2026-01-05 21:14:23 +0000 <EvanR> a seemingly novel botnet relay
2026-01-05 21:14:35 +0000marinelli(~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/marinelli) (Quit: marinelli)
2026-01-05 21:14:43 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Morj> Oh. There was also an attack on matrix network around cristmas
2026-01-05 21:14:44 +0000 <EvanR> fucking with us for no reason
2026-01-05 21:14:52 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Morj> So they just hate open source huh
2026-01-05 21:14:52 +0000 <mauke> it's called the "war on christmas"
2026-01-05 21:14:57 +0000 <EvanR> lol
2026-01-05 21:15:28 +0000 <monochrom> But lately I still switched to encryption and SASL because during that christmas attack, libera may blacklist some IP ranges but said it would let me through if I had SASL.
2026-01-05 21:16:48 +0000 <jreicher> Did they allow plain SASL during that time? (I wasn't around)
2026-01-05 21:16:58 +0000 <monochrom> I don't know.
2026-01-05 21:17:12 +0000 <monochrom> But on normal days they do.
2026-01-05 21:17:34 +0000 <monochrom> BTW I had SASL set up, my IP address was no longer blocked. :)
2026-01-05 21:17:50 +0000 <jreicher> Oh yes, that's what I do, and obviously SASL is not offering extra security in that case. I use that mechanism more as a nickserv convenience.
2026-01-05 21:18:00 +0000 <EvanR> I use plain sasl but never got kicked
2026-01-05 21:18:15 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2026-01-05 21:18:51 +0000 <monochrom> Err, s/BTW/by the time/
2026-01-05 21:18:55 +0000 <EvanR> client still says I'm using SSL
2026-01-05 21:19:23 +0000 <monochrom> Perhaps your client turns on SSL behind your back?
2026-01-05 21:19:42 +0000 <monochrom> This is known as MiTM security enhancement. >:)
2026-01-05 21:29:24 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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