2025/11/09

2025-11-09 00:05:04 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-09 00:05:48 +0000Googulator73(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0180-8127-ba79-55a7-6f29.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-11-09 00:06:13 +0000Googulator15(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0180-8127-ba79-55a7-6f29.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-11-09 00:09:55 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-11-09 00:14:47 +0000AlexNoo_(~AlexNoo@5.139.232.215)
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2025-11-09 00:17:07 +0000AlexZenon(~alzenon@85.174.180.102) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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2025-11-09 00:18:43 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-09 00:21:26 +0000AlexZenon(~alzenon@5.139.232.215)
2025-11-09 00:23:19 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-11-09 00:24:43 +0000 <EvanR> ehm... a haskell compiler written in C? o_O
2025-11-09 00:25:01 +0000 <EvanR> sounds like a match made in hell
2025-11-09 00:29:37 +0000 <monochrom> No no, the other way, a C compiler written in Haskell. :)
2025-11-09 00:31:48 +0000 <geekosaur> simplified (non-extension-using?) Haskell
2025-11-09 00:32:49 +0000 <EvanR> the 2nd step
2025-11-09 00:33:27 +0000AlexZenon(~alzenon@5.139.232.215) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-11-09 00:34:26 +0000 <EvanR> the haskell written in C just doesn't seem to be doing anyone any favors, esp if you don't have a C compiler
2025-11-09 00:34:29 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-09 00:36:02 +0000 <tccq> microhs compiles to ANSI C. This exists and seems to work fine as far as I can tell. It's written in haskell mostly
2025-11-09 00:36:13 +0000 <tccq> I want a ANSI C compiler written in haskell
2025-11-09 00:36:43 +0000 <tccq> and by simple I mean not using every possible extension
2025-11-09 00:36:54 +0000 <tccq> though many are supported by microhs so it's not a hard requirement
2025-11-09 00:37:05 +0000 <EvanR> ok so microhaskell wasn't written in C, makes sense xD
2025-11-09 00:37:21 +0000 <tccq> yup
2025-11-09 00:38:18 +0000 <EvanR> https://github.com/dmytro-feshchenko/haskell-c-compiler
2025-11-09 00:39:13 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-11-09 00:39:28 +0000 <tccq> that's the "educational resource" I referenced. You'll not that the repo contains literally nothing useful as far as I can tell
2025-11-09 00:39:40 +0000 <tccq> at least in terms of compiling C
2025-11-09 00:39:52 +0000 <EvanR> yes it contains nearly nothing nevermind
2025-11-09 00:39:58 +0000 <tccq> I find that
2025-11-09 00:40:01 +0000 <tccq> and some forks of it
2025-11-09 00:40:03 +0000 <tccq> but nothing else
2025-11-09 00:40:08 +0000 <EvanR> I'm sure there's one lying around somewhere
2025-11-09 00:40:08 +0000 <tccq> perhaps it's on me then
2025-11-09 00:40:22 +0000 <tccq> but yes I would be extremely surprised that there isn't anything
2025-11-09 00:45:13 +0000ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Quit: ljdarj)
2025-11-09 00:45:53 +0000ljdarj1(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj
2025-11-09 00:46:01 +0000Googulator78(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0180-8127-ba79-55a7-6f29.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-11-09 00:46:12 +0000Googulator73(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0180-8127-ba79-55a7-6f29.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
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2025-11-09 00:50:17 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-09 00:50:34 +0000Googulator90(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0180-8127-ba79-55a7-6f29.pool6.digikabel.hu)
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2025-11-09 00:54:55 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2025-11-09 01:00:23 +0000AlexZenon(~alzenon@5.139.232.215)
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2025-11-09 01:06:06 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-11-09 01:11:17 +0000AlexZenon(~alzenon@5.139.232.215)
2025-11-09 01:14:37 +0000machinedgod(~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod
2025-11-09 01:21:52 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-09 01:23:33 +0000Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-187-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.)
2025-11-09 01:25:01 +0000DetourNe-(DetourNetw@user/DetourNetworkUK) DetourNetworkUK
2025-11-09 01:25:14 +0000DetourNetworkUK(DetourNetw@user/DetourNetworkUK) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-11-09 01:27:15 +0000DetourNe-DetourNetworkUK
2025-11-09 01:27:19 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-11-09 01:32:00 +0000hiecaq(~hiecaq@user/hiecaq) hiecaq
2025-11-09 01:38:08 +0000ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Quit: ljdarj)
2025-11-09 01:39:44 +0000Inline(~inlinE@2a02:3035:669:2d6e:3bc0:fcb:d03f:7eb2) Inline
2025-11-09 01:45:34 +0000 <fgarcia> writing something that does haskell to Llvmir could be fun. though i am weird and like lto
2025-11-09 01:48:33 +0000 <tccq> perhaps I'm misremembering but that's basically what GRIN does right?
2025-11-09 01:49:00 +0000 <tccq> lto is indeed cool though
2025-11-09 01:49:14 +0000 <tccq> whole program optimization my beloved
2025-11-09 01:50:31 +0000Inline(~inlinE@2a02:3035:669:2d6e:3bc0:fcb:d03f:7eb2) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-11-09 01:51:20 +0000mhatta(~mhatta@www21123ui.sakura.ne.jp) (Quit: ZNC 1.10.1+deb1 - https://znc.in)
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2025-11-09 01:55:41 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-11-09 02:10:29 +0000Hobbyboy|BNC(Hobbyboy@hobbyboy.co.uk) Hobbyboy
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2025-11-09 02:11:05 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-11-09 03:31:12 +0000Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus) Lycurgus
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2025-11-09 09:20:57 +0000califax(~califax@user/califx) califx
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2025-11-09 09:31:55 +0000 <kaol> Is there something like Void but that's * -> *? Sort of like Maybe that's guaranteed to always be Nothing.
2025-11-09 09:32:17 +0000califax(~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-11-09 09:33:00 +0000 <humasect> a -> () ?
2025-11-09 09:33:15 +0000califax(~califax@user/califx) califx
2025-11-09 09:35:48 +0000 <tomsmeding> a -> Void, rather
2025-11-09 09:35:50 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-09 09:36:19 +0000 <tomsmeding> kaol: should there be a value of this type or not? "Maybe that is always Nothing" has 1 value (Nothing); VOid has 0 values
2025-11-09 09:37:08 +0000 <tomsmeding> If yes then `Const ()`; if no then `Const Void`
2025-11-09 09:37:18 +0000 <tomsmeding> (Data.Functor.Const in base)
2025-11-09 09:37:20 +0000 <dibblego> I understand the question to mean: newtype X a;
2025-11-09 09:37:33 +0000 <tomsmeding> a newtype must have one constructor
2025-11-09 09:37:37 +0000 <dibblego> er, data
2025-11-09 09:37:49 +0000 <tomsmeding> but then it's not like Void
2025-11-09 09:38:03 +0000 <tomsmeding> it's more like (), and either `data X a` indeed, or `Const ()`, works
2025-11-09 09:38:27 +0000 <tomsmeding> bah my brain this morning
2025-11-09 09:38:48 +0000 <tomsmeding> one of these, exercise for the reader to figure out which
2025-11-09 09:39:53 +0000 <kaol> I was thinking that if I have some data Foo a = { foo :: a Int } then I can have Foo Identity to have something that always has a foo and Foo Maybe that would optionally have a foo. I wondered whether there is some Foo X that would give me a data that'd have no foo.
2025-11-09 09:40:48 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-11-09 09:40:52 +0000 <tomsmeding> Const Void
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2025-11-09 09:47:17 +0000 <kaol> I'm not sure if I can have any values having that type. I'd still like to have a record containing the other fields.
2025-11-09 09:47:40 +0000 <tomsmeding> oh I see
2025-11-09 09:47:44 +0000 <tomsmeding> then Const () :)
2025-11-09 09:47:57 +0000Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-187-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi) Tuplanolla
2025-11-09 09:49:10 +0000 <kaol> Neat. I'm not sure if I need it after all but I started still thinking that surely there's a Type -> Type for this case too.
2025-11-09 09:51:13 +0000 <tomsmeding> kaol: as dibblego mentioned, you don't need predefined types for this, and in fact it might be more intuitive to write your own; the "no values at all" is `data None a` (isomorphic to Const Void), and the "exactly one value" is `data One a = One` (isomorphic to Const ())
2025-11-09 09:51:37 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-09 09:54:01 +0000 <kaol> I may need the construct across multiple modules and then I'd be better off using the same data One a = One via an import and if I import then I could get it from a library as well.
2025-11-09 09:55:04 +0000 <tomsmeding> fair
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2025-11-09 10:05:15 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-11-09 10:07:31 +0000 <Leary> kaol: `Data.Proxy`
2025-11-09 10:09:53 +0000tzh(~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz)
2025-11-09 10:10:01 +0000 <kaol> Why didn't I think of that. Thanks.
2025-11-09 10:10:07 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-11-09 10:10:51 +0000 <kaol> It's a nice new angle to think of what it does.
2025-11-09 10:14:25 +0000Nachtgespenst(~user@user/siracusa) siracusa
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2025-11-09 12:34:31 +0000Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: alsoknownas.renjuan.org ( juan@acm.org ))
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2025-11-09 13:54:29 +0000 <__monty__> `lsb x = x .&. negate x` is such a cheat.
2025-11-09 13:54:30 +0000deptype(~deptype@2406:b400:3a:73c2:cfa0:1b83:ebb:1e87)
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2025-11-09 13:59:35 +0000 <fgarcia> > 10 .&. negate 10
2025-11-09 13:59:37 +0000 <lambdabot> 2
2025-11-09 14:00:05 +0000tomsmeding. o O ( negate x = complement x + 1 )
2025-11-09 14:00:24 +0000 <tomsmeding> it's a famous bithack
2025-11-09 14:00:36 +0000 <fgarcia> > 24 .&. negate 24
2025-11-09 14:00:38 +0000 <lambdabot> 8
2025-11-09 14:01:36 +0000 <fgarcia> i like math tricks! :)
2025-11-09 14:01:44 +0000 <tomsmeding> > [x .&. negate x | x <- [1..20]]
2025-11-09 14:01:46 +0000 <lambdabot> [1,2,1,4,1,2,1,8,1,2,1,4,1,2,1,16,1,2,1,4]
2025-11-09 14:02:43 +0000cyphase(~cyphase@user/cyphase) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2025-11-09 14:04:08 +0000 <tomsmeding> if x is not zero, it ends with some zeros (0 or more), a one, and then some zeros (0 or more); say 01000. ~01000 = 10111; -01000 = 10111 + 1 = 11000
2025-11-09 14:04:28 +0000 <__monty__> I saw it applied in the context of Clash's BitVector, so it was absolutely not obvious that negate would be two's complement.
2025-11-09 14:04:58 +0000 <tomsmeding> interesting
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2025-11-09 15:04:06 +0000segfaultfizzbuzz(~segfaultf@23-93-85-123.dedicated.static.sonic.net) segfaultfizzbuzz
2025-11-09 15:04:40 +0000 <segfaultfizzbuzz> https://github.mpg.is/wasm-game/ -- wow,... i was expecting it to be jittery and have big GC pauses and stuff,... it runs so smooth on my machine,... incredible
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2025-11-09 16:08:06 +0000 <kaol> segfaultfizzbuzz: https://github.com/dmjio/miso?tab=readme-ov-file#examples has more Haskell+WASM examples, with Miso framework.
2025-11-09 16:15:08 +0000gorignak(~gorignak@user/gorignak) gorignak
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2025-11-09 16:17:57 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> nice eh! wish they'd fix the ball :)
2025-11-09 16:18:23 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> could be a new era for haskell games
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2025-11-09 20:09:42 +0000 <segfaultfizzbuzz> is there anything special which was done (like the newer low latency GC) to the compilation for the linked wasm game?
2025-11-09 20:12:25 +0000trickard(~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-11-09 20:12:40 +0000trickard_(~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-11-09 20:14:13 +0000 <segfaultfizzbuzz> i don't see any special build flags in the build script or anything in the cabal file
2025-11-09 20:14:29 +0000 <int-e> I think it just doesn't allocate much so GC is really fast
2025-11-09 20:15:15 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-11-09 20:21:57 +0000humasect(~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) humasect
2025-11-09 20:26:47 +0000humasect(~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2025-11-09 20:30:46 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-09 20:35:02 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> in fairness this is a Very Small Game
2025-11-09 20:35:27 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2025-11-09 20:35:43 +0000 <EvanR> the more live data in the heap, the more gc work there is
2025-11-09 20:36:00 +0000 <EvanR> unless you can figure out some shenanigan with compact region
2025-11-09 20:36:53 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> but https://allureofthestars.com/play/ is plenty fast (but that's ghcjs I guess)
2025-11-09 20:41:20 +0000trickard_(~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2025-11-09 20:43:06 +0000jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
2025-11-09 20:45:39 +0000vanishingideal(~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal
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2025-11-09 20:56:52 +0000 <int-e> EvanR: if all else fails you can allocate everything on the JS side instead ;-)
2025-11-09 20:58:17 +0000 <int-e> (and do all work with little imports like https://github.com/Tritlo/wasm-game/blob/main/src/Lib.hs#L328-L329 )
2025-11-09 21:00:49 +0000 <int-e> (The smiley is because you're trading GC time and marshalling overhead.)
2025-11-09 21:04:38 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-09 21:08:32 +0000spew(~spew@user/spew) (Quit: WeeChat 4.6.3)
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2025-11-09 21:16:15 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-09 21:19:42 +0000 <EvanR> yeah FFI overhead
2025-11-09 21:20:19 +0000emperori(~emperori@223.187.124.40)
2025-11-09 21:20:54 +0000emperori(~emperori@223.187.124.40) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-11-09 21:21:11 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2025-11-09 21:24:54 +0000jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-11-09 21:27:03 +0000califax(~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-11-09 21:27:37 +0000trickard_(~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-11-09 21:27:40 +0000trickard__(~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-11-09 21:28:06 +0000califax(~califax@user/califx) califx
2025-11-09 21:32:03 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-09 21:34:01 +0000 <Square3> Has there been any progress on getting the required changes to LLVM for ghc-wasm backend?
2025-11-09 21:35:31 +0000califax(~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-11-09 21:36:10 +0000peterbecich(~Thunderbi@172.222.148.214) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2025-11-09 21:36:36 +0000califax(~califax@user/califx) califx
2025-11-09 21:37:20 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-11-09 21:41:29 +0000califax(~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-11-09 21:42:30 +0000trickard__(~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-11-09 21:42:44 +0000trickard_(~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-11-09 21:42:59 +0000califax(~califax@user/califx) califx
2025-11-09 21:46:23 +0000tccq(~tccq@user/tccq) tccq
2025-11-09 21:47:12 +0000ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj
2025-11-09 21:47:50 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-09 21:52:31 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-11-09 21:52:39 +0000jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
2025-11-09 22:01:01 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-09 22:03:51 +0000jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2025-11-09 22:05:40 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-11-09 22:09:48 +0000takuan(~takuan@d8D86B9E9.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-11-09 22:16:24 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-09 22:18:44 +0000bggd(~bgg@2a01:e0a:819:1510:f6c5:7174:b2a7:ffcc) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-11-09 22:21:13 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-11-09 22:32:07 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-09 22:37:13 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-11-09 22:37:14 +0000ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-11-09 22:38:41 +0000divlamir(~divlamir@user/divlamir) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-11-09 22:38:59 +0000divlamir(~divlamir@user/divlamir) divlamir
2025-11-09 22:47:54 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-09 22:52:50 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-11-09 23:03:41 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-09 23:08:28 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-11-09 23:09:26 +0000chiselfuse(~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-11-09 23:10:06 +0000chiselfuse(~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse) chiselfuse
2025-11-09 23:11:32 +0000tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:b9c6:2c55:4165:c029) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2025-11-09 23:17:24 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-09 23:19:07 +0000hololeap_hololeap
2025-11-09 23:21:03 +0000CiaoSen(~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2025-11-09 23:22:00 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2025-11-09 23:22:30 +0000haltingsolver(~cmo@2604:3d09:207f:8000::d1dc)
2025-11-09 23:33:10 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-09 23:39:55 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-11-09 23:40:52 +0000trickard_trickard
2025-11-09 23:51:15 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-09 23:55:44 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-11-09 23:56:56 +0000jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
2025-11-09 23:58:08 +0000bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)