IRCBrowse

2025/05/22

2025-05-22 00:04:06 +0000jespada(~jespada@r179-25-104-223.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-05-22 00:05:46 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 00:06:07 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 00:06:23 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 00:09:53 +0000xff0x(~xff0x@om126236151042.32.openmobile.ne.jp) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-05-22 00:11:15 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-05-22 00:16:42 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 00:17:03 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 00:19:04 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 00:24:05 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2025-05-22 00:25:11 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 00:25:31 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 00:28:08 +0000notzmv(~daniel@user/notzmv) notzmv
2025-05-22 00:28:45 +0000philopsos(~caecilius@user/philopsos) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2025-05-22 00:31:40 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 00:31:41 +0000JamesMowery17(~JamesMowe@ip68-228-212-232.ph.ph.cox.net) JamesMowery
2025-05-22 00:32:01 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 00:34:53 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 00:38:38 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 00:39:02 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 00:39:28 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-05-22 00:44:42 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 00:45:04 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 00:49:33 +0000arahael(~arahael@user/arahael) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-05-22 00:50:22 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 00:51:33 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 00:51:57 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 00:55:13 +0000simon1(~simon@204.48.93.62) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-05-22 00:55:24 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-05-22 00:56:42 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 00:57:04 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 01:02:48 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 01:03:08 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 01:06:11 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 01:11:17 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-05-22 01:11:37 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 01:12:00 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 01:16:39 +0000tomku(~tomku@user/tomku) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2025-05-22 01:16:41 +0000tomku|two(~tomku@user/tomku) tomku
2025-05-22 01:18:10 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 01:18:21 +0000tolgo(~Thunderbi@199.115.144.130)
2025-05-22 01:18:31 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 01:19:35 +0000xff0x(~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp)
2025-05-22 01:21:56 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 01:25:26 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 01:25:47 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 01:26:58 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-05-22 01:31:55 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 01:32:15 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 01:34:36 +0000arahael(~arahael@user/arahael) arahael
2025-05-22 01:35:29 +0000ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-05-22 01:37:44 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 01:38:44 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 01:39:06 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 01:42:09 +0000tolgo(~Thunderbi@199.115.144.130) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-05-22 01:42:22 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 01:42:39 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-05-22 01:42:43 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 01:47:16 +0000notzmv(~daniel@user/notzmv) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 01:48:59 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 01:49:23 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 01:53:24 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 01:56:00 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 01:56:22 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 01:57:17 +0000craunts7(~craunts@136.158.8.87)
2025-05-22 01:58:48 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2025-05-22 02:03:00 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 02:03:22 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 02:04:40 +0000mange(~user@user/mange) mange
2025-05-22 02:09:12 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 02:10:22 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 02:10:43 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 02:14:15 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-05-22 02:17:09 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 02:17:32 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 02:18:08 +0000Square(~Square4@user/square) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2025-05-22 02:23:23 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 02:23:44 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 02:24:58 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 02:28:19 +0000ttybitnik(~ttybitnik@user/wolper) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 02:30:15 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 02:30:39 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 02:31:49 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-05-22 02:34:39 +0000djmetzle(~djmetzle@syn-141-126-079-209.res.spectrum.com)
2025-05-22 02:38:26 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 02:38:49 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 02:42:49 +0000haritz(~hrtz@user/haritz) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1+deb12u1 - https://znc.in)
2025-05-22 02:43:01 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 02:44:54 +0000djmetzle(~djmetzle@syn-141-126-079-209.res.spectrum.com) (Changing host)
2025-05-22 02:44:54 +0000djmetzle(~djmetzle@user/djmetzle) djmetzle
2025-05-22 02:46:01 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 02:46:25 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 02:47:49 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-05-22 02:54:07 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 02:54:29 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 02:58:50 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 03:00:17 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 03:00:46 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 03:03:20 +0000troydm(~troydm@user/troydm) troydm
2025-05-22 03:03:44 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-05-22 03:07:24 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 03:07:46 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 03:09:09 +0000machined1od(~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2025-05-22 03:16:07 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-05-22 03:16:27 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 03:17:17 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 03:21:40 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-05-22 03:22:18 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 03:22:40 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 03:29:26 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 03:29:36 +0000aforemny_(~aforemny@2001:9e8:6cc7:2b00:37c8:f56f:dea9:2687) aforemny
2025-05-22 03:29:50 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 03:30:38 +0000aforemny(~aforemny@2001:9e8:6ce5:8e00:80fa:29d2:1580:ff25) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2025-05-22 03:32:40 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 03:35:41 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 03:36:03 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 03:38:02 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2025-05-22 03:41:39 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 03:42:00 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 03:44:57 +0000polykernel(~polykerne@user/polykernel) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 03:45:52 +0000polykernel(~polykerne@user/polykernel) polykernel
2025-05-22 03:47:54 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 03:48:17 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 03:48:26 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 03:53:46 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2025-05-22 03:54:19 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 03:54:41 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 03:57:24 +0000sp1ff(~user@c-67-160-173-55.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) sp1ff
2025-05-22 04:00:49 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 04:01:12 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 04:04:14 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 04:08:36 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 04:08:58 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 04:11:24 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-05-22 04:17:15 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 04:17:36 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 04:20:41 +0000Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Quit: Laa shay'a waqi'un moutlaq bale kouloun moumkine)
2025-05-22 04:21:04 +0000Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) Lord_of_Life
2025-05-22 04:21:29 +0000amadaluzia(~amadaluzi@user/amadaluzia) amadaluzia
2025-05-22 04:22:17 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 04:23:42 +0000JuanDaugherty(~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-05-22 04:25:27 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 04:25:49 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 04:27:01 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-05-22 04:31:55 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 04:32:17 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 04:35:56 +0000Unicorn_Princess(~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 04:38:05 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 04:40:09 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 04:40:31 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 04:41:43 +0000michalz(~michalz@185.246.207.197)
2025-05-22 04:42:30 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-05-22 04:46:54 +0000j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-05-22 04:47:46 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 04:48:07 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 04:49:31 +0000codedmart_(~codedmart@li335-49.members.linode.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2025-05-22 04:50:34 +0000codedmart(~codedmart@li335-49.members.linode.com) codedmart
2025-05-22 04:50:47 +0000j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37
2025-05-22 04:50:50 +0000sm(~znc@plaintextaccounting/sm) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-05-22 04:51:05 +0000sm(znc@plaintextaccounting/sm) sm
2025-05-22 04:53:28 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 04:55:40 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 04:56:00 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 04:56:19 +0000Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-05-22 04:56:50 +0000Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) Lord_of_Life
2025-05-22 05:02:00 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2025-05-22 05:02:07 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2025-05-22 06:16:02 +0000 <[exa]> Is there a good way to link a binary file into a haskell executable somewhat conveniently, ideally with cabal?
2025-05-22 06:17:12 +0000 <[exa]> rough ways include: 1] `sed`ing the file binary contents into a .hs file that exports a bytestring or array or such, 2] converting to binary object with libtool, linking it and recovering with dlsym later
2025-05-22 06:17:28 +0000 <[exa]> (notably both are suboptimal)
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2025-05-22 06:51:50 +0000 <mauke> [exa]: hack: template haskell
2025-05-22 06:52:02 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
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2025-05-22 07:00:44 +0000caconym7(~caconym@user/caconym) caconym
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2025-05-22 07:03:52 +0000 <jackdk> [exa]: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/file-embed ?
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2025-05-22 07:12:31 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> 👆️
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2025-05-22 07:17:21 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
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2025-05-22 07:28:14 +0000 <[exa]> oh, it's called "embed"
2025-05-22 07:28:16 +0000 <[exa]> stupid me.
2025-05-22 07:28:21 +0000 <[exa]> jackdk: thanks a lot!
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2025-05-22 07:49:38 +0000 <[exa]> If one asks `cabal list-bin` for the path on windows, does it need to supply the `.exe` suffix for it to work?
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2025-05-22 07:55:40 +0000CiaoSen(~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) CiaoSen
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2025-05-22 07:57:22 +0000 <tomsmeding> well it gives a path to a binary, so whatever ghc puts on the binary name, right?
2025-05-22 07:57:42 +0000machinedgod(~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod
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2025-05-22 08:11:17 +0000 <[exa]> tomsmeding: no I meant, if I have "executable abc", is it going to behave like `which` requiring `cabal list-bin abc.exe` or is `cabal list-bin abc` going to work?
2025-05-22 08:11:36 +0000 <[exa]> (note: I don't have a windows machine anywhere nearby. :D )
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2025-05-22 08:23:16 +0000 <tomsmeding> [exa]: cabal list-bin takes component names
2025-05-22 08:23:20 +0000 <tomsmeding> not executable file names
2025-05-22 08:23:28 +0000 <tomsmeding> you can go `cabal list-bin package:exe:exename`
2025-05-22 08:24:01 +0000 <[exa]> uh ok that might be very useful
2025-05-22 08:24:04 +0000 <tomsmeding> `cabal exec` may need the .exe if relevant
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2025-05-22 08:50:53 +0000 <hellwolf> The amount of time I am trying to provide a tupleN syntax for something fundamentally recursively defined product type is getting rediculous. I should search through ghc proposals if there is a a syntax extension for that.
2025-05-22 08:50:53 +0000 <hellwolf> The pain is mostly around the injectivity: with NP it has much better type inference experience, but with TupleN, it's easily hampered. Not sure I can explain myself without an example.
2025-05-22 08:51:11 +0000 <hellwolf> is it really that different typing (a, b, c) than a :* b :* c :* Nil
2025-05-22 08:51:27 +0000 <hellwolf> coders be damned.
2025-05-22 08:53:13 +0000 <hellwolf> "How I learned to stop worrying and love the NP."
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2025-05-22 08:59:09 +0000 <kuribas> In idris2, tuples are inductive, (a, b, c) is just syntax for (a, (b, c))
2025-05-22 09:00:44 +0000 <kuribas> It sucks in Generics, that product types are a tree, rather than a simple inductive list.
2025-05-22 09:01:32 +0000Leary. o O ( `data a , b = a , b; infixr 0 ,` )
2025-05-22 09:01:34 +0000comerijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn
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2025-05-22 09:04:31 +0000 <hellwolf> GHC proposal, {-# LANGUAGE InductiveTuple #-} (| a, b, c |)
2025-05-22 09:05:05 +0000 <hellwolf> but why, a :* b :* c :* Nil. I am so conflicted, and hating wasted time on this.
2025-05-22 09:05:07 +0000merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2025-05-22 09:06:02 +0000 <kuribas> (a, (b, (c, ())))
2025-05-22 09:06:32 +0000 <kuribas> hellwolf: is this generics?
2025-05-22 09:09:12 +0000 <__monty__> That would make the Functor instance on inductive tuples quite toothless, no?
2025-05-22 09:10:46 +0000 <Leary> hellwolf: Either choose an arbitrary single character alias for `:*` or write a variadic `tup a b c ...` function. Then, forget about tuples for evermore.
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2025-05-22 09:11:23 +0000 <kuribas> hmm, functor doesn't work on >2 tuples in idris2.
2025-05-22 09:11:32 +0000 <kuribas> It maps over the nested tuple.
2025-05-22 09:12:10 +0000Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2025-05-22 09:12:54 +0000 <hellwolf> let me try variadic. one more attempt to make type inferrence work
2025-05-22 09:13:11 +0000 <hellwolf> * make type inference happy
2025-05-22 09:13:32 +0000haritz(~hrtz@2a01:4b00:bc2e:7000:d5af:a266:ca31:5ef8)
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2025-05-22 09:13:32 +0000haritz(~hrtz@user/haritz) haritz
2025-05-22 09:14:20 +0000 <__monty__> `fromList`'s another option if all you want is brackety syntax.
2025-05-22 09:15:48 +0000 <hellwolf> fromList wont' cut it, it gotta be of a known length at type-level.
2025-05-22 09:15:51 +0000 <kuribas> I like Generics-eot: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/generics-eot-0.4.0.1/docs/Generics-Eot.html
2025-05-22 09:16:31 +0000 <kuribas> it translates a product (foo, bar, baz) to Either (foo, (bar, (baz, ()))) Void.
2025-05-22 09:16:57 +0000 <hellwolf> kuribas: I see.
2025-05-22 09:17:16 +0000 <hellwolf> again, it's the type inference I need to fix
2025-05-22 09:17:39 +0000 <hellwolf> i tried different ways, and always got disappointment in the end
2025-05-22 09:17:41 +0000 <kuribas> hellwolf: I don't know what you are doing...
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2025-05-22 09:17:59 +0000 <kuribas> Maybe I missed context...
2025-05-22 09:18:01 +0000 <hellwolf> ywithrv_1 @(U256 -> U256 -> U256) (balanceBefore, ver amount) (\x y -> x + y) <-- want to remove that type aplication
2025-05-22 09:18:05 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 09:18:24 +0000 <hellwolf> that "ver" combinator introduces an non-injective variable
2025-05-22 09:18:32 +0000 <hellwolf> and the whole thing break down.
2025-05-22 09:18:37 +0000 <hellwolf> but with :* it can infer from the result type
2025-05-22 09:18:41 +0000 <hellwolf> one by one.
2025-05-22 09:18:52 +0000 <__monty__> Why is that Either _ Void? Surely the Either is redundant?
2025-05-22 09:18:55 +0000 <hellwolf> while with TupleN I made, I just can't make GHC work.
2025-05-22 09:19:06 +0000 <kuribas> __monty__: to support sum types.
2025-05-22 09:22:26 +0000chele(~chele@user/chele) chele
2025-05-22 09:22:46 +0000 <ski> sum-of-products
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2025-05-22 09:52:13 +0000 <hellwolf> might as well having a inductive np function, instead.
2025-05-22 09:52:16 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 09:52:26 +0000 <hellwolf> np a b c d -- :: NP f xs
2025-05-22 09:53:00 +0000 <hellwolf> I am qutie familiar with this n-ary trick now
2025-05-22 09:53:29 +0000 <hellwolf> bummer that I wasted so much time on tupleN. but I did learn a ton of working with types.
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2025-05-22 14:17:30 +0000 <EvanR> newtype is a zero cost abstraction right. But what about map MkNewtype xs and map unmakeNewtype xs
2025-05-22 14:17:36 +0000 <EvanR> is that optimized away
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2025-05-22 14:26:53 +0000 <Leary> EvanR: If it's literally `Data.List.map`, then I imagine `{-# RULES "map/coerce" [1] map coerce = coerce #-}` will handle it. Otherwise no, but that's what e.g. `coerce :: [Newtype a] -> [a]` is for.
2025-05-22 14:27:18 +0000 <EvanR> good to know
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2025-05-22 14:39:28 +0000Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) Sgeo
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2025-05-22 14:55:11 +0000weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) user363627
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2025-05-22 15:04:25 +0000 <[exa]> is hackage having issues? (I'm getting http503)
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2025-05-22 15:18:31 +0000 <hellwolf> fine for me
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2025-05-22 15:32:13 +0000 <Hecate> dminuoso: nice, hope you enjoyed it! :D
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2025-05-22 15:39:41 +0000 <tomsmeding> [exa]: fine for me too
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2025-05-22 16:49:34 +0000bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) bitdex
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2025-05-22 16:53:06 +0000 <EvanR> I see I see
2025-05-22 16:53:33 +0000 <EvanR> :t sequence_ -- drake rejects
2025-05-22 16:53:34 +0000 <lambdabot> (Foldable t, Monad m) => t (m a) -> m ()
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2025-05-22 16:54:14 +0000acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e71c4f686104470de4bb3da9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk
2025-05-22 16:56:37 +0000 <EvanR> :t fold -- drake approves
2025-05-22 16:56:38 +0000 <lambdabot> (Foldable t, Monoid m) => t m -> m
2025-05-22 16:57:15 +0000 <EvanR> :t fold [putStrLn "hello", putStrLn "world"]
2025-05-22 16:57:16 +0000 <lambdabot> IO ()
2025-05-22 16:58:48 +0000Square3(~Square@user/square) Square
2025-05-22 16:58:50 +0000Unicorn_Princess(~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) Unicorn_Princess
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2025-05-22 17:48:51 +0000jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
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2025-05-22 18:00:28 +0000 <hellwolf> instance YulO3 x (NP I xs) r => ConstructibleNP (P'x eff r) x xs One where
2025-05-22 18:00:28 +0000 <hellwolf> why does GHC thinks this constraint is no smaller than the instance head
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2025-05-22 18:05:39 +0000 <tomsmeding> https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/users_guide/exts/instances.html#instance-rules
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2025-05-22 18:06:30 +0000erty(~user@user/aeroplane) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-05-22 18:07:16 +0000 <tomsmeding> not sure, if NP is a data type then the conditions seem satisfied
2025-05-22 18:09:53 +0000JuanDaugherty(~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) (Quit: praxis.meansofproduction.biz (juan@acm.org))
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2025-05-22 18:10:28 +0000 <tomsmeding> hellwolf: what kind of injectivity do you need?
2025-05-22 18:10:39 +0000 <tomsmeding> it seems to me like recognising n-tuples should be doable
2025-05-22 18:10:49 +0000ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2025-05-22 18:12:34 +0000 <hellwolf> 05-22 21:07 <tomsmeding> not sure, if NP is a data type then the conditions seem satisfied
2025-05-22 18:12:34 +0000 <hellwolf> I think it's because the whole of "(NP I xs)" was not in the instance head, it seems a quite simple rule, but perhaps too strict.
2025-05-22 18:12:44 +0000 <tomsmeding> hellwolf: this is probably weaker than what you want but this would work fine https://play.haskell.org/saved/S3EguXSS
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2025-05-22 18:13:06 +0000 <tomsmeding> oh the "smaller" conditions are definitely an underapproximation
2025-05-22 18:13:12 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 18:13:12 +0000 <tomsmeding> they're sound, but far from complete
2025-05-22 18:13:13 +0000jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
2025-05-22 18:13:19 +0000 <tomsmeding> -XUndecidableInstances is your friend
2025-05-22 18:13:37 +0000 <hellwolf> yea, I will need to learn to stop worrying
2025-05-22 18:14:12 +0000 <hellwolf> 05-22 21:12 <tomsmeding> hellwolf: this is probably weaker than what you want but this would work fine https://play.haskell.org/saved/S3EguXSS
2025-05-22 18:14:12 +0000 <hellwolf> That is fine. But when I have a (x, ver y), where ver introduces an ambiguous type, it all brakes down.
2025-05-22 18:14:32 +0000 <tomsmeding> does it? It's already known that it's a tuple, so the correct instance gets chosen
2025-05-22 18:14:47 +0000 <tomsmeding> then the equality constraint from the (+) should propagate back
2025-05-22 18:14:48 +0000 <hellwolf> apparently it didn't.
2025-05-22 18:15:08 +0000 <hellwolf> I am too exhausted to create a small examples for it today.
2025-05-22 18:15:13 +0000 <tomsmeding> sure :)
2025-05-22 18:16:14 +0000 <hellwolf> sorry.
2025-05-22 18:16:24 +0000 <hellwolf> GHC is defeating me pretty badly today.
2025-05-22 18:16:36 +0000 <tomsmeding> hellwolf: https://play.haskell.org/saved/DARROgpC
2025-05-22 18:16:44 +0000 <tomsmeding> but no pressure :p
2025-05-22 18:17:00 +0000 <hellwolf> you need a ver that uses ambigous types
2025-05-22 18:17:09 +0000 <hellwolf> ver :: a -> T v a
2025-05-22 18:17:10 +0000 <hellwolf> something like that
2025-05-22 18:17:15 +0000 <tomsmeding> where T is not injective?
2025-05-22 18:17:25 +0000 <hellwolf> It's a data type
2025-05-22 18:17:27 +0000 <tomsmeding> oh
2025-05-22 18:17:31 +0000 <tomsmeding> but then it's not ambiguous
2025-05-22 18:17:58 +0000notzmv(~daniel@user/notzmv) notzmv
2025-05-22 18:17:59 +0000 <hellwolf> I mean it is, since v is neither in the MPTC nor in arguments of ver
2025-05-22 18:18:13 +0000 <tomsmeding> oh right
2025-05-22 18:18:17 +0000 <hellwolf> and I could @v but that defeats the purpose
2025-05-22 18:18:25 +0000 <hellwolf> so, if my recollection is correct:
2025-05-22 18:18:30 +0000 <tomsmeding> but then, where would you like ghc to conjure a v from :p
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2025-05-22 18:18:44 +0000 <tomsmeding> should the tuple components always have the same type?
2025-05-22 18:18:50 +0000 <tomsmeding> that is something that can be easily required
2025-05-22 18:19:03 +0000 <tomsmeding> oh wait that's already required, hm, lemme try
2025-05-22 18:19:07 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 18:19:26 +0000 <hellwolf> that's where I expected magic: TupleN_M m tpl = r | r -> m tpl
2025-05-22 18:19:39 +0000 <hellwolf> sorry, can't recall.
2025-05-22 18:19:47 +0000 <hellwolf> but I was hoping some back and forth propagation
2025-05-22 18:21:02 +0000 <hellwolf> (a, ver b) :: Tuple_M (R v) (a, b)
2025-05-22 18:21:06 +0000 <tomsmeding> hellwolf: https://play.haskell.org/saved/qcoMnu1O
2025-05-22 18:21:12 +0000 <hellwolf> so ver b should be :: R v b
2025-05-22 18:21:18 +0000 <hellwolf> but ghc says v0
2025-05-22 18:21:36 +0000 <hellwolf> it can't not figure out v
2025-05-22 18:21:51 +0000 <tomsmeding> I'd have to see precisely what you did
2025-05-22 18:21:57 +0000ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj
2025-05-22 18:22:26 +0000 <tomsmeding> my thing has fully bidirectional informatino
2025-05-22 18:22:37 +0000 <tomsmeding> but you probably need something stronger somehow
2025-05-22 18:23:07 +0000 <hellwolf> oh, you are using typeclass
2025-05-22 18:23:10 +0000 <hellwolf> mine was typefamily
2025-05-22 18:23:27 +0000 <hellwolf> when I have time and courage next week, I will get back to you on this one.
2025-05-22 18:23:31 +0000 <hellwolf> today I fought enough with GHC
2025-05-22 18:24:20 +0000 <hellwolf> Ur newAmount <- ywithrv_1 (balanceBefore :* ver amount :* Nil) \(x :* y :* Nil) -> x + y <-- I am settled for this today, ugly, but at least I don't have to deal with type applications.
2025-05-22 18:24:28 +0000lxsameer(~lxsameer@Serene/lxsameer) lxsameer
2025-05-22 18:24:47 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 18:25:10 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 18:25:30 +0000notzmv(~daniel@user/notzmv) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2025-05-22 18:26:04 +0000 <tomsmeding> I can only get this to produce an ambiguous v if I explicitly ensure that the (+) does _not_ pin down the v's to be the same https://play.haskell.org/saved/m50QJTQK
2025-05-22 18:26:55 +0000tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:38c8:fba4:4821:1856) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2025-05-22 18:27:19 +0000 <hellwolf> maybe the associated type familymakes some difference
2025-05-22 18:27:26 +0000 <hellwolf> i dont' know. unlikely
2025-05-22 18:28:13 +0000 <hellwolf> Thanks for lending a hand. I save your examples.
2025-05-22 18:29:33 +0000 <hellwolf> oh
2025-05-22 18:29:54 +0000 <hellwolf> a difference: balanceBefore must be T (v :: Nat)
2025-05-22 18:30:08 +0000 <tomsmeding> Bool is just a standin
2025-05-22 18:30:19 +0000 <tomsmeding> any known type is oka
2025-05-22 18:30:21 +0000 <tomsmeding> *okay
2025-05-22 18:33:47 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 18:34:11 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 18:34:53 +0000sprotte24(~sprotte24@p200300d16f0a64003d98b99ac0239694.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2025-05-22 18:34:53 +0000rvalue-(~rvalue@user/rvalue) rvalue
2025-05-22 18:35:17 +0000rvalue(~rvalue@user/rvalue) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2025-05-22 18:40:50 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 18:41:13 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 18:42:02 +0000rvalue-rvalue
2025-05-22 18:43:00 +0000notzmv(~daniel@user/notzmv) notzmv
2025-05-22 18:43:35 +0000 <hellwolf> the key difference is that I need to enforce the same "v-ness" in the tuple.
2025-05-22 18:43:41 +0000 <hellwolf> https://play.haskell.org/saved/glFn4zs9
2025-05-22 18:43:50 +0000 <hellwolf> I put type whole to see what's got resolved to "ver 2"
2025-05-22 18:43:54 +0000Shsl-Junko-POSER(~Shsl-Junk@50.235.208.178)
2025-05-22 18:44:11 +0000 <hellwolf> v stay abstract, since it didn't matter
2025-05-22 18:44:15 +0000 <hellwolf> but it should matter in my case.
2025-05-22 18:44:34 +0000jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-05-22 18:44:36 +0000 <tomsmeding> hellwolf: so the 'a' of the Ts may differ, but the 'v' must be the same across all tuple elements?
2025-05-22 18:44:43 +0000 <hellwolf> what GHC does here is mindboggling, or may be I am too hungry
2025-05-22 18:44:59 +0000 <hellwolf> correct. if you still remember, I am trying to do this silly data versioning thing.
2025-05-22 18:45:04 +0000 <tomsmeding> right
2025-05-22 18:45:07 +0000 <tomsmeding> I can arrange the vs to be the same
2025-05-22 18:45:19 +0000ttybitnik(~ttybitnik@user/wolper) ttybitnik
2025-05-22 18:45:23 +0000 <tomsmeding> but at the cost of the tuple elements necessarily being Ts
2025-05-22 18:45:39 +0000 <tomsmeding> or something that I can compute the v from, by type family
2025-05-22 18:45:40 +0000 <hellwolf> I was trying to modify your example, but my PTSD stopped me
2025-05-22 18:45:45 +0000 <tomsmeding> heh
2025-05-22 18:45:47 +0000 <hellwolf> yea.....
2025-05-22 18:45:50 +0000 <hellwolf> here we go
2025-05-22 18:46:08 +0000 <tomsmeding> well how do you do it with your :* thing
2025-05-22 18:46:18 +0000 <hellwolf> so, sometimes GHC doesn't even bother to resolve a type varibable, if it didn't matter
2025-05-22 18:46:18 +0000 <tomsmeding> because you have the same problem there of needing to make the vs equal
2025-05-22 18:46:34 +0000 <hellwolf> I mean, it works!
2025-05-22 18:46:39 +0000 <hellwolf> I don't know.
2025-05-22 18:46:44 +0000 <hellwolf> I don't know anything today anymore
2025-05-22 18:46:56 +0000 <tomsmeding> hellwolf: if I add 'Show v =>' to the context of 'ver', GHC does resolve v
2025-05-22 18:46:58 +0000 <tomsmeding> funny
2025-05-22 18:47:23 +0000 <hellwolf> interesting
2025-05-22 18:47:25 +0000 <tomsmeding> (I explicitly choose Show here, and not Num, because Num has defaulting behaviour and I don't want any defaulting here)
2025-05-22 18:47:50 +0000 <tomsmeding> it's the (+) here that forces the arguments to have the same type
2025-05-22 18:48:02 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 18:48:06 +0000 <hellwolf> it's probably easier if I recreate that failed example in a branch, and if you will have time have a look, another day.
2025-05-22 18:48:12 +0000 <tomsmeding> probably
2025-05-22 18:48:24 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 18:48:32 +0000 <hellwolf> I had high hope with my plan yeasterday :D
2025-05-22 18:48:39 +0000 <hellwolf> I thought I got injectivity figured out
2025-05-22 18:49:36 +0000weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 18:50:06 +0000 <hellwolf> but maybe your applyTupFun is doing some wonder here
2025-05-22 18:50:11 +0000 <tomsmeding> it isn't
2025-05-22 18:50:18 +0000 <hellwolf> :p, alright...
2025-05-22 18:50:23 +0000 <tomsmeding> it _might_ be that I'm using a type class and not a type family
2025-05-22 18:50:35 +0000 <tomsmeding> because I don't see how you can actually use that tuple if all you have is a type family
2025-05-22 18:50:57 +0000 <tomsmeding> (as in: you can perhaps introduce the correct type constraints using type families, but you also need to get the values from the tuple somehow, presumably)
2025-05-22 18:51:23 +0000 <tomsmeding> applyTupFun is just a placeholder for "use the tuple and the function somehow"
2025-05-22 18:51:43 +0000 <hellwolf> https://github.com/yolc-dev/yul-dsl-monorepo/blob/master/hs-pkgs/simple-sop/src/Data/TupleN.hs
2025-05-22 18:51:46 +0000 <hellwolf> template haskell
2025-05-22 18:51:56 +0000 <hellwolf> fromNPtoTupleN
2025-05-22 18:52:03 +0000 <tomsmeding> oof
2025-05-22 18:52:18 +0000 <tomsmeding> oh you've commented what it expands to
2025-05-22 18:52:22 +0000 <hellwolf> yea
2025-05-22 18:52:26 +0000 <tomsmeding> thank you
2025-05-22 18:52:34 +0000 <hellwolf> I thank myself too for that
2025-05-22 18:52:41 +0000 <tomsmeding> the TH is only to be able to write large stuff without having to repeat yourself?
2025-05-22 18:52:58 +0000 <hellwolf> and to practice my TH skill
2025-05-22 18:53:22 +0000 <tomsmeding> this stuff https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ghc-internal-9.1201.0/docs/src/GHC.Internal.Show.html#line-251
2025-05-22 18:53:33 +0000 <tomsmeding> there was worse somewhere
2025-05-22 18:53:52 +0000 <hellwolf> Generate code with bash is not that bad
2025-05-22 18:53:56 +0000 <tomsmeding> yeah here we go https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ghc-prim-0.13.0/docs/src/GHC.Tuple.html#Tuple0
2025-05-22 18:54:17 +0000 <hellwolf> I know, but honestly, it's not bad.
2025-05-22 18:54:18 +0000 <int-e> . o O ( As I keep saying, don't repeat yourself. )
2025-05-22 18:54:34 +0000 <tomsmeding> if it's simple like this, it's indeed not so bad
2025-05-22 18:54:38 +0000 <hellwolf> you can easily put the oneliner bash into the comments.
2025-05-22 18:54:58 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-05-22 18:55:09 +0000 <tomsmeding> so is this working or non-working code?
2025-05-22 18:55:22 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 18:55:56 +0000 <hellwolf> it compiles
2025-05-22 18:56:09 +0000 <tomsmeding> but inference is bad?
2025-05-22 18:56:25 +0000 <hellwolf> yea, let me show some snippets then, since we are sitll here.
2025-05-22 18:56:41 +0000 <tomsmeding> you said you'd leave this twice already
2025-05-22 18:56:43 +0000 <tomsmeding> :p
2025-05-22 18:56:53 +0000 <hellwolf> yea, because you are helping :D
2025-05-22 18:57:00 +0000 <hellwolf> and my wife hasn't come to pick me up yet
2025-05-22 18:57:08 +0000 <tomsmeding> I'm just procrastinating on thesis writing
2025-05-22 18:57:08 +0000 <hellwolf> "NP (Rv v r) (x:xs) ->"
2025-05-22 18:57:14 +0000 <hellwolf> we both are
2025-05-22 18:57:23 +0000 <hellwolf> I am using NP atm
2025-05-22 18:57:27 +0000 <hellwolf> Ideally, I want to do this:
2025-05-22 18:57:52 +0000 <hellwolf> "TupleN_M (Rv v r) (x:xs)"
2025-05-22 18:58:07 +0000 <hellwolf> NP (Rv v r) (x:xs) ->
2025-05-22 18:58:07 +0000 <hellwolf> (NP m2 (x:xs) -> m2 (TupleN (b:bs))) ->
2025-05-22 18:58:07 +0000 <hellwolf> YLVM v v r (Ur (TupleN_M m1 (b:bs)))
2025-05-22 18:58:13 +0000 <hellwolf> sorry, tooo much context.
2025-05-22 18:58:42 +0000 <hellwolf> you know what I remember now, tuple for (x:xs) worked
2025-05-22 18:58:50 +0000 <hellwolf> so your example was correct, and I got it working
2025-05-22 18:58:57 +0000 <hellwolf> but the inference of (b:bs) was not working
2025-05-22 18:59:46 +0000 <hellwolf> this is the working example, but I had an non-working example, where it was a n-ary "f" in the second argument
2025-05-22 19:00:00 +0000 <hellwolf> "(NP m2 (x:xs) -> m2 (TupleN (b:bs)))" is 2-ary, where b:bs is cearly inferred
2025-05-22 19:00:02 +0000caconym7(~caconym@user/caconym) (Quit: bye)
2025-05-22 19:00:03 +0000 <hellwolf> so it works.
2025-05-22 19:00:03 +0000Shsl-Junko-POSER(~Shsl-Junk@50.235.208.178) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-05-22 19:00:05 +0000 <tomsmeding> yeah I'd need a specific non-working example at this point
2025-05-22 19:00:09 +0000 <hellwolf> I know.
2025-05-22 19:00:34 +0000 <hellwolf> but I think I wasted your time. TupleN for (x:xs) I got it working fine.
2025-05-22 19:00:39 +0000 <hellwolf> it was the b, in the end.
2025-05-22 19:00:41 +0000caconym7(~caconym@user/caconym) caconym
2025-05-22 19:00:47 +0000 <hellwolf> I just couldn't remember anymore.
2025-05-22 19:00:52 +0000 <tomsmeding> it's ok
2025-05-22 19:01:09 +0000notzmv(~daniel@user/notzmv) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-05-22 19:01:10 +0000 <tomsmeding> I've been there too :D
2025-05-22 19:03:02 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 19:03:10 +0000 <hellwolf> so, imagine the second argument is a (x1 -> x2 -> ... -> b)
2025-05-22 19:03:18 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 19:03:23 +0000 <hellwolf> where I have another silly type family called Function
2025-05-22 19:03:29 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 19:03:38 +0000 <hellwolf> I think the bug is there, it doesn't infer "b" easily from backward
2025-05-22 19:03:43 +0000 <hellwolf> "bug"
2025-05-22 19:04:01 +0000 <tomsmeding> right -- I was going to ask, "how do I imagine a thing that isn't valid haskell syntax"
2025-05-22 19:04:15 +0000 <tomsmeding> because sure you can encode that, but exactly how you encode that is precisely the important bit here :p
2025-05-22 19:04:56 +0000 <hellwolf> :p
2025-05-22 19:04:56 +0000 <hellwolf> type family LiftFunction f (m :: Type -> Type) (mb :: Type -> Type) (p :: Multiplicity) where
2025-05-22 19:04:56 +0000 <hellwolf> LiftFunction (x1 -> g) m mb p = m x1 %p-> LiftFunction g m mb p
2025-05-22 19:04:56 +0000 <hellwolf> LiftFunction (b) _ mb _ = mb b
2025-05-22 19:05:10 +0000tomsmedingalso doesn't see how "n-ary function" meshes with "I want the tuple to be a standard tuple"
2025-05-22 19:05:14 +0000 <tomsmeding> because tuples are not n-ary
2025-05-22 19:05:33 +0000 <tomsmeding> oh hm
2025-05-22 19:05:48 +0000 <hellwolf> I realized today that maybe I am asking too much syntax sugar for an EDSL
2025-05-22 19:05:50 +0000 <tomsmeding> the n comes from the tuple but you want to post-process the function type somehow
2025-05-22 19:05:53 +0000 <tomsmeding> ?
2025-05-22 19:05:58 +0000 <hellwolf> maybe users of an EDSL just need to use esoteric syntax.
2025-05-22 19:06:23 +0000 <tomsmeding> ghc doesn't know here that b is not a function type I think
2025-05-22 19:06:34 +0000 <tomsmeding> or at least, it's a problem that I can see happening
2025-05-22 19:06:54 +0000 <hellwolf> I see, interesting
2025-05-22 19:07:01 +0000 <tomsmeding> applying a type family to a function type to modify its argument and result types is generally a bad idea
2025-05-22 19:07:02 +0000 <hellwolf> I actually know the solution to that particular problem
2025-05-22 19:07:12 +0000 <tomsmeding> because you need to know already beforehand that the result type is _not_ a function for it to work
2025-05-22 19:07:37 +0000 <tomsmeding> can you instead modify the list of argument types before they get stuffed into a chain of (->)?
2025-05-22 19:08:35 +0000 <hellwolf> would that become a different function with wrong associatetivty ? (x1 -> x2 -> x3 ...) -> b
2025-05-22 19:08:55 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 19:08:58 +0000 <tomsmeding> no, what I mean is that ghc may not be able to choose which of the two equations of LiftFunction applies
2025-05-22 19:09:07 +0000 <tomsmeding> because ghc needs to be able to prove that equation 1 doesn't apply before moving on th equation 2
2025-05-22 19:09:09 +0000 <tomsmeding> *on to
2025-05-22 19:09:21 +0000Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) Tuplanolla
2025-05-22 19:09:21 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 19:09:51 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-05-22 19:10:11 +0000 <tomsmeding> in accelerate, function types are also used as a stand-in for type level lists and mapped over in some ways
2025-05-22 19:10:13 +0000 <tomsmeding> it's always messy
2025-05-22 19:10:25 +0000 <tomsmeding> mapping over an _actual_ type level list is just, well, normal
2025-05-22 19:10:33 +0000 <hellwolf> I think the trick I use is to add a constraint: LiftFunction b ~ b
2025-05-22 19:10:36 +0000 <hellwolf> something like this
2025-05-22 19:10:39 +0000 <hellwolf> I have this in few places
2025-05-22 19:10:41 +0000lxsameer(~lxsameer@Serene/lxsameer) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-05-22 19:10:54 +0000 <hellwolf> it forces it to check if it is NOT a function type any more
2025-05-22 19:11:02 +0000 <tomsmeding> I don't know if this is the problem you have here
2025-05-22 19:11:18 +0000 <tomsmeding> but it tickles my intuition because this stuff can stop type information from progressing
2025-05-22 19:11:54 +0000 <hellwolf> I see, maybe indeed there is something there I need to be careful
2025-05-22 19:12:12 +0000 <tomsmeding> in particular, LiftFunction is _not_ injective
2025-05-22 19:12:21 +0000 <hellwolf> type family CurryNP np b where
2025-05-22 19:12:21 +0000 <hellwolf> CurryNP (NP _ '[]) b = b
2025-05-22 19:12:21 +0000 <hellwolf> CurryNP (NP m (x:xs)) b = x -> CurryNP (NP m xs) b
2025-05-22 19:12:28 +0000 <hellwolf> I could recreate function signature in reverse
2025-05-22 19:12:34 +0000 <hellwolf> not sure if it would make a difference
2025-05-22 19:12:44 +0000 <tomsmeding> can you apply a LiftFunction-like thing _before_ doing CurryNP?
2025-05-22 19:12:49 +0000 <tomsmeding> so that you map over a list instead of a function type
2025-05-22 19:13:12 +0000 <tomsmeding> then LiftFunction could perhaps be injective
2025-05-22 19:13:15 +0000 <hellwolf> I think so, it's in my TF clauset
2025-05-22 19:13:39 +0000 <hellwolf> closet
2025-05-22 19:13:41 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-05-22 19:13:49 +0000tomsmeding. o O ( TensorFlow )
2025-05-22 19:14:07 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 19:14:31 +0000 <EvanR> k I'm about to do something stupid, if you have a column of length N, and an empty table ... of length not N, then it's going to stop you from consing the column onto the table xD
2025-05-22 19:14:46 +0000 <EvanR> by empty table I mean no columns
2025-05-22 19:15:02 +0000 <tomsmeding> is the table a column of rows, or a row of columns
2025-05-22 19:15:19 +0000 <EvanR> it's a matrix!
2025-05-22 19:15:32 +0000 <tomsmeding> a C matrix or a Pascal matrix
2025-05-22 19:16:10 +0000 <EvanR> graphical linear algebra matrix, I guess. Which is going to be annoying without something like a dependent type system
2025-05-22 19:16:34 +0000tomsmedingwonders how "consing" and "matrix" go together
2025-05-22 19:16:59 +0000 <EvanR> but my haskell code right now, table = list of rows, and column is a separate thing
2025-05-22 19:17:20 +0000 <EvanR> you can slap a column of the right size on the left side
2025-05-22 19:17:32 +0000 <tomsmeding> by doing `zipWith (:)`?
2025-05-22 19:17:42 +0000 <EvanR> basically
2025-05-22 19:19:08 +0000 <EvanR> I guess I could outlaw no column tables
2025-05-22 19:19:37 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 19:19:56 +0000 <tomsmeding> or store the matrix size separately from its contents so that you can check sizes
2025-05-22 19:20:13 +0000 <tomsmeding> data Matrix a = Matrix (Int, Int) (Vector a)
2025-05-22 19:20:31 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 19:20:34 +0000 <EvanR> I have that and am envisioning user frustration with no being able to do this operation on "the empty table" which is 0 x 0
2025-05-22 19:20:55 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 19:20:55 +0000 <tomsmeding> then you can special-case that :p
2025-05-22 19:21:01 +0000 <EvanR> uhg
2025-05-22 19:21:02 +0000 <tomsmeding> if it's runtime values, you're in control
2025-05-22 19:21:35 +0000 <tomsmeding> but wanting to cons an n-long vector onto a 0x0 table to get a 1xn table sounds like python, not haskell
2025-05-22 19:21:43 +0000 <EvanR> ikr
2025-05-22 19:21:53 +0000 <EvanR> not doing it
2025-05-22 19:21:54 +0000 <tomsmeding> this is the kind of stuff that tensorflow does
2025-05-22 19:22:48 +0000tomsmedinghas had to fix student-written tensorflow code that horribly confused zero-dimensional arrays and length-1 1-dimensional arrays everywhere
2025-05-22 19:23:06 +0000 <tomsmeding> worse, it wasn't tensorflow code, it was code that _generated_ tensorflow code, as a compiler backend
2025-05-22 19:23:07 +0000 <EvanR> haha
2025-05-22 19:23:34 +0000 <tomsmeding> if TF had enforced proper shape discipline a whole bunch of strange errors could never even have occurred because stuff wouldn't have typechecked
2025-05-22 19:24:38 +0000 <EvanR> now I'm wondering if it's simpler to have "bizarre" "proper" 0xN tables, or to make the rows NonEmpty
2025-05-22 19:24:49 +0000 <EvanR> i mean, which is more complicated
2025-05-22 19:24:56 +0000 <tomsmeding> complicated for you or for the user
2025-05-22 19:25:00 +0000 <EvanR> me
2025-05-22 19:25:13 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2025-05-22 19:25:26 +0000 <tomsmeding> allowing 0xN has fewer edge-cases because [0..]x[0..] is all allowed
2025-05-22 19:25:55 +0000 <tomsmeding> otherwise you have [1..]x[1..] \union {0x0}
2025-05-22 19:26:21 +0000peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich
2025-05-22 19:26:21 +0000 <EvanR> 0x0 would be out
2025-05-22 19:27:01 +0000 <tomsmeding> [1..]x[1..] allows you to compute the shape from the contents, if the contents is nested lists
2025-05-22 19:27:09 +0000 <tomsmeding> (condolences for your performance if so)
2025-05-22 19:27:17 +0000tomsmedingwould allow 0x0
2025-05-22 19:28:07 +0000 <EvanR> 00, the best bet on the board
2025-05-22 19:28:33 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-05-22 19:28:41 +0000 <EvanR> 0xN it is
2025-05-22 19:28:54 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 19:31:39 +0000pavonia(~user@user/siracusa) siracusa
2025-05-22 19:32:36 +0000 <EvanR> stupid question, is N the number of rows there
2025-05-22 19:32:47 +0000 <EvanR> from context yes but conventionally
2025-05-22 19:34:11 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 19:34:32 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 19:35:13 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 19:35:27 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 19:35:35 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 19:35:43 +0000peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2025-05-22 19:36:04 +0000 <tomsmeding> are you doing graphics or math :p
2025-05-22 19:36:25 +0000 <tomsmeding> math has "height x width" as notational convention
2025-05-22 19:36:56 +0000 <tomsmeding> I chose randomly from 0xN and Nx0 because I was too lazy to think about it
2025-05-22 19:37:05 +0000 <EvanR> yeah that's what I'm gonna do
2025-05-22 19:37:11 +0000 <EvanR> let me get the RNG out
2025-05-22 19:38:07 +0000 <EvanR> the math definition fails when the table is flat get it
2025-05-22 19:38:14 +0000 <tomsmeding> hm?
2025-05-22 19:38:29 +0000 <EvanR> because it has zero height
2025-05-22 19:38:47 +0000 <tomsmeding> 0xN is a perfectly valid matrix size in math
2025-05-22 19:38:57 +0000 <tomsmeding> if a bit unusual
2025-05-22 19:39:14 +0000 <tomsmeding> represents linear functions from R^N to R^0
2025-05-22 19:39:57 +0000 <EvanR> no you see, if the table only has width and depth, is horizontal on a flat plane
2025-05-22 19:39:58 +0000 <tomsmeding> of which there is only one (that sends all elements of R^n to 0), corresponding nicely to the unique element of R^{0xN}, an empty matrix
2025-05-22 19:40:15 +0000 <EvanR> like a damn table
2025-05-22 19:40:24 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2025-05-22 19:41:05 +0000 <tomsmeding> π
2025-05-22 19:41:43 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 19:42:04 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 19:42:33 +0000 <EvanR> it is apparently tricky to find a stock image of a table... on a table...
2025-05-22 19:42:53 +0000 <tomsmeding> try to get AI to generate it
2025-05-22 19:43:42 +0000 <EvanR> my AI skills are neophyte-like
2025-05-22 19:43:56 +0000 <tomsmeding> that's why I asked you, mine are worse
2025-05-22 19:44:55 +0000Guest65(~Guest75@38.158.225.122)
2025-05-22 19:44:58 +0000 <EvanR> but I will strive to learn an ascii cast ish thing soonish so I can show off what I got
2025-05-22 19:45:48 +0000 <tomsmeding> well it's not a... table? but it's something
2025-05-22 19:46:02 +0000 <tomsmeding> https://tomsmeding.com/vang/xjdXHX/Untitled.jpg
2025-05-22 19:46:09 +0000 <tomsmeding> credits stable diffusion
2025-05-22 19:46:55 +0000 <Rembane> A diffuse table!
2025-05-22 19:47:11 +0000 <tomsmeding> a diffuse stable, rather
2025-05-22 19:47:13 +0000 <Rembane> Can you ask it to go more Escher?
2025-05-22 19:47:21 +0000 <Rembane> Yes, it's very stable, many legs
2025-05-22 19:47:23 +0000 <EvanR> always fun to see wtf it generates for text on a page
2025-05-22 19:47:45 +0000 <Rembane> Stability is a function of number of legs, right?
2025-05-22 19:48:01 +0000 <tomsmeding> adding Escher made it a... metro map? https://tomsmeding.com/vang/FAbSVV/Untitled.jpg
2025-05-22 19:48:18 +0000 <Rembane> I love the random frame on the floor
2025-05-22 19:48:22 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 19:48:24 +0000 <Rembane> It's just there for decoration
2025-05-22 19:48:28 +0000 <tomsmeding> yes
2025-05-22 19:48:43 +0000 <Rembane> The map looks a bit like the more advanced parts of USA
2025-05-22 19:48:47 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 19:48:53 +0000 <Rembane> Before people got tired and just did a thing with aruler
2025-05-22 19:49:53 +0000 <EvanR> I think the thing under the table is the escher part if you try to understand where its going back there
2025-05-22 19:50:01 +0000Guest65(~Guest75@38.158.225.122) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-05-22 19:50:22 +0000 <tomsmeding> https://tomsmeding.com/vang/s5Xsxf/Untitled.jpg this is "a table of results on top of a drafting table, line-drawing style"
2025-05-22 19:50:24 +0000 <EvanR> it's probably part of the table proper, one big piee
2025-05-22 19:50:25 +0000 <EvanR> piece
2025-05-22 19:50:29 +0000Guest4(~Guest75@38.158.225.122)
2025-05-22 19:50:44 +0000 <tomsmeding> the "line-drawing" just didn't influence the style, but became a separate drawing
2025-05-22 19:51:06 +0000 <EvanR> is that real language
2025-05-22 19:51:12 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 19:51:33 +0000 <tomsmeding> have you never looked at text generated by stable diffusion
2025-05-22 19:51:37 +0000machinedgod(~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod
2025-05-22 19:51:39 +0000 <tomsmeding> it's always hilarious like this, especially when it actually tries
2025-05-22 19:51:54 +0000 <tomsmeding> it manages "Result", almost, 6x as the headers
2025-05-22 19:52:18 +0000 <EvanR> I can't look at these images for long
2025-05-22 19:52:42 +0000 <tomsmeding> this is 'the word "monomorphism"' https://tomsmeding.com/vang/3N9spa/Untitled.jpg
2025-05-22 19:52:47 +0000 <hellwolf> I couldn't sto pmyself
2025-05-22 19:53:03 +0000 <hellwolf> oh, tom, you already jump to another topic
2025-05-22 19:53:11 +0000 <tomsmeding> the distraction continues
2025-05-22 19:53:13 +0000 <hellwolf> I just came back home, and recreated the error.
2025-05-22 19:53:18 +0000 <hellwolf> if youwant more distractions
2025-05-22 19:53:23 +0000 <tomsmeding> yay
2025-05-22 19:53:32 +0000 <EvanR> monomorphıism
2025-05-22 19:53:40 +0000 <EvanR> oh
2025-05-22 19:53:50 +0000 <EvanR> monomorphisıim
2025-05-22 19:53:54 +0000 <tomsmeding> yes\
2025-05-22 19:54:00 +0000Guest4(~Guest75@38.158.225.122) ()
2025-05-22 19:54:02 +0000 <hellwolf> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/1AsgewaD
2025-05-22 19:55:16 +0000 <EvanR> people use ai generated imagery for stuff, but I wonder if anyone is cutting corners so hard they're using stuff like monomorphisıim xD
2025-05-22 19:55:18 +0000 <hellwolf> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/pyA3ZjDH
2025-05-22 19:55:21 +0000 <tomsmeding> EvanR: 'the words "lambda calculus" written in clouds' https://tomsmeding.com/vang/xQ5iil/Untitled.jpg
2025-05-22 19:55:45 +0000 <Rembane> I love how close it is every time
2025-05-22 19:55:56 +0000 <EvanR> so close
2025-05-22 19:56:26 +0000 <hellwolf> the TupleN_M failed to inject due to v0 in "Rv v0 r (INTx False 32)"
2025-05-22 19:56:26 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2025-05-22 19:56:44 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 19:56:59 +0000 <tomsmeding> EvanR: there was a paper that did that
2025-05-22 19:57:07 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 19:57:23 +0000 <hellwolf> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/B99bWHl8 added TupleN_M
2025-05-22 19:57:28 +0000 <tomsmeding> oh here we go, found by searching for "penis" in MS Teams https://scienceintegritydigest.com/2024/02/15/the-rat-with-the-big-balls-and-enormous-penis-how-fr…
2025-05-22 19:58:24 +0000 <Rembane> tomsmeding: That's how you find the good stuff
2025-05-22 19:59:14 +0000 <hellwolf> alright :p this chat is going haywire
2025-05-22 19:59:20 +0000 <tomsmeding> hellwolf: I'm looking
2025-05-22 19:59:51 +0000 <EvanR> that's a direct answer to my inquiry
2025-05-22 20:00:14 +0000 <tomsmeding> an affirmative one, yes
2025-05-22 20:00:23 +0000 <tomsmeding> though this made the news, so it can't be that common
2025-05-22 20:00:48 +0000 <hellwolf> added "ver" too: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/QYgRs34n
2025-05-22 20:01:23 +0000 <hellwolf> hope that's enough context. gonna ingest some food before I can figure injectivity.
2025-05-22 20:01:24 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-05-22 20:01:45 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 20:01:58 +0000 <tomsmeding> hellwolf: odd, injectivity of TupleN_M ought to fix xs0 ~ [y0] at the very least, for unknown y0
2025-05-22 20:03:14 +0000 <hellwolf> I thought so too, and I was almost proud to TH that 16 or 64 of isntances.
2025-05-22 20:04:05 +0000 <tomsmeding> I seem to be able to reproduce?
2025-05-22 20:04:17 +0000 <hellwolf> huh?
2025-05-22 20:04:39 +0000 <tomsmeding> https://play.haskell.org/saved/XPOw0qzY
2025-05-22 20:04:57 +0000 <hellwolf> nice, mini example
2025-05-22 20:05:09 +0000 <hellwolf> you have clearer mind than mine atm
2025-05-22 20:05:43 +0000 <tomsmeding> oh
2025-05-22 20:05:51 +0000 <tomsmeding> I think I have a lead on what's going on
2025-05-22 20:06:25 +0000 <tomsmeding> (Rv 0 r Char, Rv v r Bool) needs to match (m x1, m x2) for GHC to decide that indeed the TupleN_M equation matches
2025-05-22 20:06:34 +0000 <tomsmeding> but in order for that to work, we need 0 ~ v
2025-05-22 20:06:39 +0000 <tomsmeding> and GHC doesn't know that yet
2025-05-22 20:06:56 +0000 <tomsmeding> so GHC cannot conclude for certain that indeed the second equation of TupleN_M matches
2025-05-22 20:07:00 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 20:07:25 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 20:07:30 +0000 <hellwolf> :(
2025-05-22 20:07:32 +0000 <tomsmeding> note that the absence of a different candidate equation does not force GHC's hand, because GHC does not assume that any given type equal to the result of a type family application does actually have a pre-image
2025-05-22 20:07:47 +0000 <hellwolf> i think what you said makes sense.
2025-05-22 20:07:51 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 20:07:59 +0000 <tomsmeding> in a type class you'd do this by writing `instance (m ~ m') => SomeClass (m x1, m' x2)`
2025-05-22 20:08:16 +0000 <tomsmeding> the point being that this allows GHC to choose the instance already if it doesn't know yet that m equals m'
2025-05-22 20:08:27 +0000 <tomsmeding> and only after GHC has committed to this instance, assert that m ~ m'
2025-05-22 20:08:52 +0000 <tomsmeding> with only a type family, I don't think you can do this directly
2025-05-22 20:09:01 +0000 <tomsmeding> you'd have to generate a constraint from the type family that is to applied afterwards
2025-05-22 20:09:25 +0000tomsmedingalready had a hunch this was going to happen when you began about the vs needing to be equal
2025-05-22 20:09:34 +0000 <tomsmeding> I already had this instance trick ready in my mind for that
2025-05-22 20:09:49 +0000 <hellwolf> if I make TupleN_M a type class, would that work
2025-05-22 20:09:58 +0000hellwolfdon't know what I am talking about yet
2025-05-22 20:09:58 +0000 <tomsmeding> if you use this trick, I think yes
2025-05-22 20:12:20 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-05-22 20:13:22 +0000target_i(~target_i@user/target-i/x-6023099) target_i
2025-05-22 20:15:48 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2025-05-22 20:18:12 +0000 <tomsmeding> hellwolf: look at this https://play.haskell.org/saved/Y2hq9vNs
2025-05-22 20:18:24 +0000tomsmedingis proud of that TypeError trick
2025-05-22 20:19:27 +0000 <tomsmeding> never mind that the syntax highlighting messes ul completely there
2025-05-22 20:19:42 +0000 <hellwolf> oh, I was trying too, derring dinner.
2025-05-22 20:19:55 +0000 <hellwolf> i know why the syntax highlighting problem
2025-05-22 20:20:02 +0000 <tomsmeding> missing 'where'
2025-05-22 20:20:02 +0000 <hellwolf> I didn't report to you
2025-05-22 20:20:05 +0000 <hellwolf> right, yes.
2025-05-22 20:21:33 +0000 <tomsmeding> naturally names are crappy and all that, but it's about the deferred equality assertion trick
2025-05-22 20:21:40 +0000 <tomsmeding> I don't know if this trick has a name
2025-05-22 20:21:50 +0000 <hellwolf> `but it still doesn't work, right?
2025-05-22 20:21:58 +0000 <tomsmeding> well it typechecks
2025-05-22 20:22:06 +0000 <tomsmeding> it doesn't because I used TypeError to show what m and xs are
2025-05-22 20:22:13 +0000 <tomsmeding> and to show that they indeed inferred to the correct types
2025-05-22 20:22:27 +0000 <tomsmeding> if you remove that TypeError (and the failing non-C 'usage') it compiles
2025-05-22 20:22:48 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 20:22:48 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 20:22:54 +0000 <EvanR> ok ran into the first real issue with 0xN tables
2025-05-22 20:22:59 +0000 <EvanR> saving them to a file xD
2025-05-22 20:23:13 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 20:23:18 +0000 <tomsmeding> just write a shape header
2025-05-22 20:23:42 +0000JuanDaugherty(~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) JuanDaugherty
2025-05-22 20:24:34 +0000 <EvanR> that's actually probably handy for loading the file
2025-05-22 20:24:43 +0000 <EvanR> since you know how many records to expect
2025-05-22 20:24:49 +0000 <hellwolf> hmm, sorry. I thought I needed a way to get TupleN from a type-lee list
2025-05-22 20:25:04 +0000nicole(ilbelkyr@libera/staff/ilbelkyr) ilbelkyr
2025-05-22 20:26:20 +0000 <hellwolf> sh, okay, hm
2025-05-22 20:27:29 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-05-22 20:27:54 +0000 <hellwolf> fooC ::
2025-05-22 20:27:54 +0000 <hellwolf> ( Rv v r ~ m
2025-05-22 20:27:54 +0000 <hellwolf> , (CTupleN_M (TupleN_M m xs))
2025-05-22 20:27:54 +0000 <hellwolf> ) =>
2025-05-22 20:27:54 +0000 <hellwolf> TupleN_M m xs -> ()
2025-05-22 20:27:55 +0000 <hellwolf> fooC = undefined
2025-05-22 20:28:06 +0000 <hellwolf> this now is what I can see how I should use it
2025-05-22 20:28:11 +0000 <hellwolf> time to TH again, tomorrow!
2025-05-22 20:28:13 +0000 <hellwolf> thanks!
2025-05-22 20:28:41 +0000 <hellwolf> https://play.haskell.org/saved/YJdJrdLp
2025-05-22 20:28:43 +0000 <tomsmeding> nesting the class and the type family like that is scary again re type inference
2025-05-22 20:29:39 +0000 <hellwolf> maybe, but it seems logically clear
2025-05-22 20:30:12 +0000 <hellwolf> it is to use type class to "inject" equality check in the unification process. if i am using the terminology correclty
2025-05-22 20:30:17 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 20:30:39 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 20:30:55 +0000 <tomsmeding> oh I misread that type
2025-05-22 20:31:12 +0000 <hellwolf> TIL
2025-05-22 20:31:15 +0000 <tomsmeding> hellwolf: note that because you put the type family as the argument again, that won't work if the type family has (m x1, m x2)
2025-05-22 20:31:41 +0000 <tomsmeding> because then m and xs won't be inferred, so the argument to the class won't be inferred, so no instance will be selected, so nothing happens
2025-05-22 20:31:42 +0000 <hellwolf> https://play.haskell.org/saved/WRQFmhg1 <-- isn't it what I am doing here?
2025-05-22 20:31:56 +0000 <tomsmeding> oh
2025-05-22 20:32:05 +0000 <tomsmeding> neat, ghc is clever
2025-05-22 20:32:13 +0000 <hellwolf> all checks nicely, and I can use it in code as it is already
2025-05-22 20:32:22 +0000 <hellwolf> my day gets better again.
2025-05-22 20:32:26 +0000 <tomsmeding> I guess it sees `TupleN_M m xs ~ (Rv 0 r Char, Rv v r Bool)`, and uses that to rewrite the CTupleN_M constraint
2025-05-22 20:32:42 +0000 <hellwolf> I hope it won't get broken in future GHC!
2025-05-22 20:32:42 +0000 <tomsmeding> and solve, and obtain the m equality, dedice the 0 ~ v equality, and proceed to reduce the type family
2025-05-22 20:32:57 +0000 <tomsmeding> no this stuff is stable and old
2025-05-22 20:32:59 +0000 <hellwolf> type family is the last step.
2025-05-22 20:33:02 +0000 <hellwolf> I hope
2025-05-22 20:33:12 +0000 <tomsmeding> hellwolf: I can remove the `Rv v r ~ m` constraint and it still typechecks
2025-05-22 20:33:30 +0000 <tomsmeding> though that is perhaps because `value` already has it known
2025-05-22 20:33:38 +0000michalz(~michalz@185.246.207.197) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 20:33:43 +0000 <hellwolf> yea, I think in actual code I need that
2025-05-22 20:33:51 +0000 <hellwolf> that v is used in other type
2025-05-22 20:34:00 +0000 <hellwolf> in this example, it doesn't matter
2025-05-22 20:34:14 +0000 <tomsmeding> hellwolf: 99.9% sure that if this kind of equality reasoning breaks in a future ghc version, that's a P1 bug
2025-05-22 20:34:15 +0000tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:38c8:fba4:4821:1856)
2025-05-22 20:34:23 +0000 <tomsmeding> ah
2025-05-22 20:34:29 +0000 <hellwolf> that's a relief to hear
2025-05-22 20:34:43 +0000 <tomsmeding> with polymorphism and impredicativity in the picture, things are more murky
2025-05-22 20:34:46 +0000 <hellwolf> GHC is a glorious piece of engineering
2025-05-22 20:35:03 +0000 <tomsmeding> but this is basic usage of type families and type classes
2025-05-22 20:35:29 +0000 <tomsmeding> it's complicated -- GHC has a lot of logic to make this all work -- but it's basic functionality that has been expected to work, I think, since type families were there
2025-05-22 20:36:11 +0000 <tomsmeding> hellwolf: you don't even need the MonadOf and XsOf in this example
2025-05-22 20:36:41 +0000 <tomsmeding> I wonder whether it's better to do this or to do `fooC :: (MonadOf t ~ m, CTupleN_M t) => t -> ()`
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2025-05-22 20:53:13 +0000 <gutp_md> <
2025-05-22 20:53:19 +0000gutp_md(~gutp_md@2a0b:6204:d496:1600:c6cf:6655:1de0:a31b) ()
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2025-05-22 20:56:37 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 20:57:15 +0000 <hellwolf> new TH function to learn if I do that.
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2025-05-22 21:01:14 +0000 <EvanR> alrighty then
2025-05-22 21:01:24 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-05-22 21:01:41 +0000 <EvanR> now I can load a 0x10 table and proceed to drop rows to make it 0x9 or 0x8 etc
2025-05-22 21:01:52 +0000 <hellwolf> class TupleNWithSameM tpl
2025-05-22 21:01:52 +0000 <hellwolf> ...
2025-05-22 21:01:52 +0000 <hellwolf> instance (m1 ~ m2, m2 ~ m3) => TupleNWithSameM (m1 x1, m2 x2, m3 x3)
2025-05-22 21:02:07 +0000 <hellwolf> this works magic already, Tom, great success. Very easy TH to write, too.
2025-05-22 21:03:07 +0000 <hellwolf> now let's fight the issue of variable "b"
2025-05-22 21:04:46 +0000weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) user363627
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2025-05-22 21:52:36 +0000j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37
2025-05-22 21:54:11 +0000 <hellwolf> Ur newAmount <- ywithrv_1' (balanceBefore, ver amount) \(x, y) -> x + y
2025-05-22 21:54:16 +0000 <hellwolf> okay, now it's acceptable
2025-05-22 21:54:18 +0000 <hellwolf> :)
2025-05-22 21:54:20 +0000 <hellwolf> GN
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2025-05-22 21:56:17 +0000Square(~Square4@user/square) Square
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2025-05-22 22:18:12 +0000humasect(~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) humasect
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2025-05-22 22:24:22 +0000 <Square> Anyone know how to bypass "Internal error when trying to open a repl for the package fake-package-0. The package is not in the set of available targets for the project plan, which would suggest an inconsistency between readTargetSelectors and resolveTargets"
2025-05-22 22:25:12 +0000 <Square> when issuing "cabal repl" in a multi module project? Filed here among other places https://github.com/haskell/cabal/issues/9983
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2025-05-22 22:28:07 +0000 <int-e> this suggests that you're supposed to also provide a package name for loading into the repl
2025-05-22 22:29:41 +0000 <Square> Yeah, easy to figure out. I'll try to onboard some colleagues into haskell land next week so i hoped I could offer a more user friendly experience.
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