| 2024-09-03 00:07:10 +0200 | michalz | (~michalz@185.246.207.221) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-09-03 00:09:33 +0200 | econo_ | (uid147250@id-147250.tinside.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2024-09-03 00:12:29 +0200 | <monochrom> | I think all of it can. |
| 2024-09-03 00:13:24 +0200 | <geekosaur> | the only thing I can think of is that it doesn't handle typeclasses "raw", but it's not really supposed to; they become constraints and explicit records of functions |
| 2024-09-03 00:16:22 +0200 | oo_miguel | (~Thunderbi@78.10.207.45) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-09-03 00:23:30 +0200 | kaskal | (~kaskal@089144220050.atnat0029.highway.webapn.at) |
| 2024-09-03 00:24:41 +0200 | kaskal | (~kaskal@089144220050.atnat0029.highway.webapn.at) (Client Quit) |
| 2024-09-03 00:27:09 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2024-09-03 00:34:35 +0200 | sawilagar | (~sawilagar@user/sawilagar) |
| 2024-09-03 00:35:19 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <thirdofmay18081814goya> hm i see, ty! |
| 2024-09-03 00:46:19 +0200 | __monty__ | (~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2024-09-03 00:47:17 +0200 | <geekosaur> | also notable, constraints are not part of Hindley-Milner which is the basis of standard Haskell (the Haskell Report vaguely waves at "extended" when discussing this) |
| 2024-09-03 00:54:19 +0200 | joeyadams | (~joeyadams@syn-184-054-105-097.res.spectrum.com) |
| 2024-09-03 00:55:17 +0200 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e72cfb8015cf4a37de266f89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2024-09-03 01:06:39 +0200 | neuroevolutus | (~neuroevol@146.70.211.24) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2024-09-03 01:10:45 +0200 | Moyst__ | (~moyst@user/moyst) |
| 2024-09-03 01:11:28 +0200 | Moyst_ | (~moyst@user/moyst) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2024-09-03 01:17:05 +0200 | Tuplanolla1 | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 2024-09-03 01:25:05 +0200 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e72cfb806d1b8dd9c0ab8f32.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2024-09-03 01:26:03 +0200 | sourcetarius | (~sourcetar@user/sourcetarius) |
| 2024-09-03 01:26:42 +0200 | spew | (~spew@201.141.99.170) (Quit: spew) |
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| 2024-09-03 01:29:34 +0200 | benjaminl | (~benjaminl@user/benjaminl) |
| 2024-09-03 01:31:59 +0200 | ZharMeny | (~ZharMeny@user/ZharMeny) (Quit: ERC 5.5.0.29.1 (IRC client for GNU Emacs 29.4)) |
| 2024-09-03 01:32:52 +0200 | joeyadams | (~joeyadams@syn-184-054-105-097.res.spectrum.com) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2024-09-03 02:04:26 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d50-99-47-73.abhsia.telus.net) |
| 2024-09-03 02:08:07 +0200 | EvanR | (~EvanR@user/evanr) |
| 2024-09-03 02:09:59 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:9984:ac36:164d:127b) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2024-09-03 02:13:06 +0200 | tomboy64 | (~tomboy64@user/tomboy64) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2024-09-03 02:20:41 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) |
| 2024-09-03 02:25:03 +0200 | sawilagar | (~sawilagar@user/sawilagar) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2024-09-03 02:26:50 +0200 | d34df00d | (~d34df00d@2600:1702:4f1b:7c10::43) |
| 2024-09-03 02:27:24 +0200 | <d34df00d> | Hi! |
| 2024-09-03 02:27:36 +0200 | <d34df00d> | What's the easiest way to see what base version corresponds to which ghc release? |
| 2024-09-03 02:28:41 +0200 | <mauke> | @where base |
| 2024-09-03 02:28:41 +0200 | <lambdabot> | http://darcs.haskell.org/packages/base/ |
| 2024-09-03 02:28:53 +0200 | <mauke> | @where+ base https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base |
| 2024-09-03 02:28:53 +0200 | <lambdabot> | Done. |
| 2024-09-03 02:29:42 +0200 | <mauke> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.20.0.1/changelog search for "with GHC" |
| 2024-09-03 02:29:51 +0200 | <geekosaur> | ghcup shows which base comes with each ghc version |
| 2024-09-03 02:29:58 +0200 | <d34df00d> | Oh dang, changelong is something i haven't checked! |
| 2024-09-03 02:30:04 +0200 | <d34df00d> | Thanks, that works. |
| 2024-09-03 02:30:17 +0200 | <geekosaur> | there's also a table on the ghc wiki showing what bootlibs show with all ghc releases back to (iirc) 7.0 |
| 2024-09-03 02:30:27 +0200 | <geekosaur> | *go with |
| 2024-09-03 02:30:56 +0200 | emmanuelux | (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) (Quit: au revoir) |
| 2024-09-03 02:32:06 +0200 | <d34df00d> | ghcup is even nicer, especially since I have it installed on one of my machines I guess. |
| 2024-09-03 02:32:10 +0200 | <d34df00d> | Thanks folks! |
| 2024-09-03 02:59:34 +0200 | vglfr | (~vglfr@2601:14d:4e01:1370:472:1f80:8d8f:3004) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
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| 2024-09-03 03:11:13 +0200 | athan | (~athan@syn-098-153-145-140.biz.spectrum.com) (Quit: Konversation terminated!) |
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| 2024-09-03 05:11:59 +0200 | tomboy64 | (~tomboy64@user/tomboy64) |
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| 2024-09-03 06:03:28 +0200 | elnegro | (elnegro@r186-54-32-144.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) |
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| 2024-09-03 06:22:25 +0200 | hgolden | (~hgolden@23.162.40.69) |
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| 2024-09-03 06:22:33 +0200 | hgolden_ | (~hgolden@23.162.40.69) |
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| 2024-09-03 06:29:31 +0200 | michalz | (~michalz@185.246.207.218) |
| 2024-09-03 06:33:20 +0200 | gmg | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) |
| 2024-09-03 06:35:49 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> thirdofmay18081814goya type families can't be modeled by base system F (well, anything above basic kinds can't because they are mostly unspecified) |
| 2024-09-03 06:36:34 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <thirdofmay18081814goya> hm i see, ty! |
| 2024-09-03 06:38:09 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> Another big one is datatypes with complex recursion, specially "codata" (streams and all that) which require some form of lazy recursion to work |
| 2024-09-03 06:39:02 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> On the same line, since system F is total you can't represent most of the useful anamorphisms (and above) without resorting to catamorphisms over natural numbers |
| 2024-09-03 06:41:31 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> On the same line (2: electric boogaloo) nontermination can't be modelled with system F |
| 2024-09-03 06:45:03 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> As for stuff that belongs to macro/multi-stage level, system F doesn't have proper mechanisms to ensure that deriving works (i.e, matches a specific pattern, like the signature of fmap) other than foralls, which fall short sadly. This also excludes any kind of efficient runtime generics like the ones you can get with row types or GHC magic |
| 2024-09-03 06:45:22 +0200 | takuan | (~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) |
| 2024-09-03 06:49:58 +0200 | michalz | (~michalz@185.246.207.218) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-09-03 06:50:07 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> Finally, syntax wise it becomes uncool (but technically it can still do everything given some cleverness): system F can accomodate modules awkwardly, passing Böhm-Berarducci encoded structures holding functions exported by the module and then wiring it up like a messy analog synthesizer setup, but doesn't have most of the "syntax sugar" we are used to, like "let", "where", "case..of", "do", etc |
| 2024-09-03 06:52:43 +0200 | michalz | (~michalz@185.246.207.215) |
| 2024-09-03 06:54:59 +0200 | athan | (~athan@syn-098-153-145-140.biz.spectrum.com) |
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| 2024-09-03 08:09:30 +0200 | DragonMaus | (~dragonmau@user/dragonmaus) (Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.) |
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| 2024-09-03 15:07:27 +0200 | <[exa]> | hey all, is there any nice functional algorithm for a random generator that produces a sequence of length (n1+n2+n3+n4+...) with numbers 1,2,3,4,..., each respectively occuring exactly n1,n2,n3,... times? Problem: there isn't too many buckets (individual `n`'s), but the total sum of `n`s is galactic-scale (I won't ever hopefully fit a "permutation" into the memory) |
| 2024-09-03 15:09:57 +0200 | <[exa]> | currently I guess I'll just keep a list of how many of each buckets needs to get generated and split the random generated number from (1..sum ns) into categories. Better ideas welcome. For more buckets I'd go for some kind of prefix-sum tree but since there's gonna be like 5 of them max, I don't care. |
| 2024-09-03 15:14:48 +0200 | <[exa]> | Other question: I've got very nice brackety functions that safely open & close a resource and leave you to do something, such as `withFile "foo.txt" $ \f -> do ....`. Is there some kind of a monad combinator that would transform this to `withFiles ["foo1.txt", ...] $ \[f1, ...] -> do ...` ? |
| 2024-09-03 15:18:20 +0200 | <[exa]> | (in short I have say `(a -> (b -> IO c) -> IO c)` and want to construct `[a] -> ([b] -> IO c) -> IO c` from it) |
| 2024-09-03 15:20:10 +0200 | <merijn> | [exa]: hmm, I don't quite understand your formulation of the random number generator? |
| 2024-09-03 15:21:31 +0200 | <merijn> | So you have a N numbers and for each of those numbers you want that number of duplicate values? |
| 2024-09-03 15:22:21 +0200 | <merijn> | [exa]: It sounds like you could *maybe* use a trick I learned, but I'm not quite sure it fits your actual problem description |
| 2024-09-03 15:23:03 +0200 | <merijn> | [exa]: As for your bracket question, if you google `ContT` and bracket you can find some nice tricks |
| 2024-09-03 15:24:06 +0200 | <[exa]> | merijn: other view, basically I have a sequence of numbers [1..gazillion] and want to split it into disjunct sequences of given sizes. The gazillion is too big, so loading it to memory and "just mixing" is not an option. |
| 2024-09-03 15:24:13 +0200 | <[exa]> | re the bracket, thanks a lot, will google |
| 2024-09-03 15:24:25 +0200 | <[exa]> | (it really looked like Cont but I'm not good with Cont. :D) |
| 2024-09-03 15:25:32 +0200 | <merijn> | The SO answer I remember for that trick appears gone, so not sure you can find it again |
| 2024-09-03 15:26:04 +0200 | <merijn> | [exa]: ok, so your problem is you want to sample N random, non-repeating numbers from the space 1..gazillion? |
| 2024-09-03 15:28:02 +0200 | <[exa]> | no.... say you have [1,2,3,4,5] as input (it's always 1 to something for simplification). Then I get [3,2] as bucket sizes. Valid answers then include say [[1,2,3],[4,5]] and [[1,2,4],[3,5]] and [[1,3,4],[2,5]] etc. |
| 2024-09-03 15:29:41 +0200 | <merijn> | I mean, that looks like what I said, except you're wanting M sequences of random, non-repeating numbers from 1..gazillion :p |
| 2024-09-03 15:29:51 +0200 | <[exa]> | problem: the input is going to be too huge to remember any of the data as a whole set, so I need to output the things iteratively; e.g. in the second example the generator would basically tell me "first input goes to bucket 1, next into bucket 1, next into bucket 2, next into bucket 1, next into bucket 2, end" |
| 2024-09-03 15:30:16 +0200 | <[exa]> | yeah that would be it |
| 2024-09-03 15:30:26 +0200 | <merijn> | Is the input gonna be 1 through N, though? Or not |
| 2024-09-03 15:30:36 +0200 | <[exa]> | isomorphic to that, yes |
| 2024-09-03 15:31:13 +0200 | <[exa]> | basically I've got a few huge data streams and need to mix them fairly |
| 2024-09-03 15:31:23 +0200 | <[exa]> | might have started from this description, right. ^ |
| 2024-09-03 15:31:53 +0200 | <merijn> | Ok, by what definition of fair? :p |
| 2024-09-03 15:33:40 +0200 | <[exa]> | basically if one of the buckets is shorter, it shouldn't affect its occurence distribution in the mixed stream |
| 2024-09-03 15:34:09 +0200 | <merijn> | So, basically the problem I had was: Given the range 0..N (where N is **large**) select K random, non-repeating numbers from within 0..N. So I know a solution to that, I'm just not sure that helps you :) |
| 2024-09-03 15:34:19 +0200 | <[exa]> | (i.e. if you would output just unweighted random bucket IDs and remove buckets that ran out of space, shorter buckets would be filled/emptied right in the beginning. |
| 2024-09-03 15:35:10 +0200 | <[exa]> | for the K you use the knuth shuffly trick no? |
| 2024-09-03 15:35:48 +0200 | rosco | (~rosco@175.136.158.234) (Quit: Lost terminal) |
| 2024-09-03 15:35:51 +0200 | <merijn> | I'm assuming that by Knuth you mean the Fisher-Yates shuffle, yeah. |
| 2024-09-03 15:36:07 +0200 | <merijn> | Or rather a sparse partial version of it |
| 2024-09-03 15:36:37 +0200 | <[exa]> | yes, just remembering the <=K things that were taken out |
| 2024-09-03 15:36:51 +0200 | <[exa]> | not very useful here because K gonna get yuge |
| 2024-09-03 15:38:51 +0200 | <merijn> | [exa]: But your problem has multiple streams of input that should be redistributed across N buckets? |
| 2024-09-03 15:40:10 +0200 | <Leary> | :t \f -> runContT . traverse (ContT . f) |
| 2024-09-03 15:40:12 +0200 | <lambdabot> | forall k (t :: * -> *) a b (m :: k -> *) (r :: k). Traversable t => (a -> (b -> m r) -> m r) -> t a -> (t b -> m r) -> m r |
| 2024-09-03 15:44:27 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2024-09-03 15:46:00 +0200 | <[exa]> | Leary: oh wow, nice, thanks a lot! |
| 2024-09-03 15:48:17 +0200 | <Leary> | [exa]: NP. Re the number generation, if I've understood correctly, then a streaming approach is to maintain an array of weights associated with an array of buckets, then generate bucket indices in accordance with those weights, decrementing the associated weight each time its bucket is selected. |
| 2024-09-03 15:48:48 +0200 | <[exa]> | yap |
| 2024-09-03 15:49:00 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) |
| 2024-09-03 15:51:37 +0200 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) |
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| 2024-09-03 20:08:36 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
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| 2024-09-03 20:12:58 +0200 | rvalue | (~rvalue@user/rvalue) |
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| 2024-09-03 20:14:58 +0200 | <[exa]> | hm, is there a library with a mmap(2) equivalent that works over a file descriptor or handle instead of a ("unopened") file path? |
| 2024-09-03 20:15:59 +0200 | CrunchyFlakes | (~CrunchyFl@ip-109-42-114-20.web.vodafone.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-09-03 20:20:05 +0200 | <[exa]> | ah wait it's in shared-memory. initial google failed. |
| 2024-09-03 20:24:23 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 2024-09-03 20:29:09 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2024-09-03 20:32:53 +0200 | akegalj | (~akegalj@20-82.dsl.iskon.hr) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2024-09-03 20:36:05 +0200 | Feuermagier | (~Feuermagi@user/feuermagier) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2024-09-03 20:36:21 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d50-99-47-73.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2024-09-03 20:40:02 +0200 | AlexNoo_ | AlexNoo |
| 2024-09-03 20:40:11 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 2024-09-03 20:41:53 +0200 | Inst | (~Inst@user/Inst) |
| 2024-09-03 20:42:15 +0200 | yazz | (jarek@user/yazz) () |
| 2024-09-03 20:45:06 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2024-09-03 20:51:48 +0200 | weary-traveler | (~user@user/user363627) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-09-03 20:53:28 +0200 | AlexZenon | (~alzenon@178.34.150.250) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2024-09-03 20:55:58 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 2024-09-03 20:58:12 +0200 | AlexZenon | (~alzenon@178.34.150.250) |
| 2024-09-03 21:01:04 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2024-09-03 21:03:02 +0200 | jespada | (~jespada@r190-64-133-178.su-static.adinet.com.uy) (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2024-09-03 21:03:32 +0200 | jespada | (~jespada@r190-64-133-178.su-static.adinet.com.uy) |
| 2024-09-03 21:09:32 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 2024-09-03 21:14:24 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-09-03 21:16:35 +0200 | <[exa]> | ...ok so, how probable is it that I test the above random generator on a sequence of 20 items and it by complete chance outputs a sorted, super-biased-looking sequence, sending me into half an hour of debugging before I get low enough to just re-run it and see actual randomness? |
| 2024-09-03 21:18:20 +0200 | Alleria | (~Alleria@user/alleria) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-09-03 21:18:26 +0200 | <darkling> | Naively, about 1/(20!)? |
| 2024-09-03 21:19:07 +0200 | <[exa]> | spoiler: from here it looked like p=1.0 |
| 2024-09-03 21:19:52 +0200 | <EvanR> | when you gaze into actual randomness, actual randomness gazes back |
| 2024-09-03 21:20:23 +0200 | <[exa]> | memorable ^ |
| 2024-09-03 21:20:35 +0200 | AlexNoo_ | (~AlexNoo@5.139.233.35) |
| 2024-09-03 21:20:41 +0200 | <EvanR> | also every ordering of 20 items is equally likely |
| 2024-09-03 21:20:49 +0200 | <EvanR> | presumably |
| 2024-09-03 21:21:09 +0200 | <[exa]> | yeah |
| 2024-09-03 21:21:25 +0200 | <EvanR> | how long do you have to sit and watch a list of length 2 get shuffled until you see actual randomness |
| 2024-09-03 21:22:04 +0200 | AlexZenon | (~alzenon@178.34.150.250) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2024-09-03 21:23:21 +0200 | AlexZenon | (~alzenon@5.139.233.35) |
| 2024-09-03 21:23:49 +0200 | AlexNoo | (~AlexNoo@178.34.150.250) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2024-09-03 21:24:03 +0200 | AlexNoo_ | AlexNoo |
| 2024-09-03 21:25:15 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 2024-09-03 21:25:27 +0200 | ec | (~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-09-03 21:25:55 +0200 | ec | (~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) |
| 2024-09-03 21:27:57 +0200 | darkling | breaks out the printed book of random numbers. |
| 2024-09-03 21:28:06 +0200 | sord937 | (~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) (Quit: sord937) |
| 2024-09-03 21:29:06 +0200 | <EvanR> | did xkcd write that? |
| 2024-09-03 21:30:14 +0200 | vglfr | (~vglfr@2607:fb91:834:1618:ac39:6af7:e3fa:db4a) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2024-09-03 21:30:43 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2024-09-03 21:32:02 +0200 | <darkling> | No, they were an actual thing, back in the '60s or so. |
| 2024-09-03 21:32:36 +0200 | <darkling> | https://www.amazon.com/Million-Random-Digits-Normal-Deviates/dp/0833030477 |
| 2024-09-03 21:32:38 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 2024-09-03 21:32:50 +0200 | <darkling> | (Although that looks like it's a reprint from this millennium) |
| 2024-09-03 21:34:15 +0200 | misterfish | (~misterfis@84.53.85.146) |
| 2024-09-03 21:35:26 +0200 | gmg | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2024-09-03 21:37:49 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2024-09-03 21:43:41 +0200 | jespada | (~jespada@r190-64-133-178.su-static.adinet.com.uy) (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2024-09-03 21:47:45 +0200 | misterfish | (~misterfis@84.53.85.146) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2024-09-03 21:48:22 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 2024-09-03 21:48:33 +0200 | jespada | (~jespada@r190-64-133-178.su-static.adinet.com.uy) |
| 2024-09-03 21:48:39 +0200 | codaraxis | (~codaraxis@user/codaraxis) |
| 2024-09-03 21:51:17 +0200 | ash3en | (~Thunderbi@2a01:c23:9425:d300:a59d:7e6e:37ec:ac7f) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2024-09-03 21:51:49 +0200 | jespada | (~jespada@r190-64-133-178.su-static.adinet.com.uy) (Client Quit) |
| 2024-09-03 21:53:30 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2024-09-03 21:54:30 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d50-99-47-73.abhsia.telus.net) |
| 2024-09-03 21:58:02 +0200 | vglfr | (~vglfr@2601:14d:4e01:1370:aa26:2342:9c12:cd31) |
| 2024-09-03 22:02:06 +0200 | sourcetarius | (~sourcetar@user/sourcetarius) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2024-09-03 22:04:09 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 2024-09-03 22:08:45 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2024-09-03 22:09:53 +0200 | <[exa]> | darkling: they'd never sell this publicly if they could estimate the meme value in late 2020s |
| 2024-09-03 22:19:56 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 2024-09-03 22:24:51 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2024-09-03 22:26:07 +0200 | spew | (~spew@201.141.99.170) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-09-03 22:31:25 +0200 | spew | (~spew@201.141.99.170) |
| 2024-09-03 22:35:43 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 2024-09-03 22:39:13 +0200 | misterfish | (~misterfis@84.53.85.146) |
| 2024-09-03 22:39:41 +0200 | myxos | (~myxos@syn-065-028-251-121.res.spectrum.com) |
| 2024-09-03 22:40:49 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2024-09-03 22:45:04 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) |
| 2024-09-03 22:45:04 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2024-09-03 22:48:22 +0200 | michalz | (~michalz@185.246.207.215) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-09-03 22:51:05 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
| 2024-09-03 22:53:04 +0200 | misterfish | (~misterfis@84.53.85.146) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2024-09-03 23:00:31 +0200 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-09-03 23:00:32 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-09-03 23:00:45 +0200 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) |
| 2024-09-03 23:00:51 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) |
| 2024-09-03 23:01:31 +0200 | Luj9 | (~Luj@2a01:e0a:de4:a0e1:be24:11ff:febc:b5b5) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat) |
| 2024-09-03 23:02:28 +0200 | Luj9 | (~Luj@2a01:e0a:de4:a0e1:be24:11ff:febc:b5b5) |
| 2024-09-03 23:07:18 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 2024-09-03 23:12:06 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2024-09-03 23:12:23 +0200 | takuan | (~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-09-03 23:13:30 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2024-09-03 23:13:34 +0200 | Luj9 | (~Luj@2a01:e0a:de4:a0e1:be24:11ff:febc:b5b5) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat) |
| 2024-09-03 23:14:10 +0200 | Luj9 | (~Luj@2a01:e0a:de4:a0e1:be24:11ff:febc:b5b5) |
| 2024-09-03 23:18:55 +0200 | Luj9 | (~Luj@2a01:e0a:de4:a0e1:be24:11ff:febc:b5b5) (Client Quit) |
| 2024-09-03 23:19:30 +0200 | Luj9 | (~Luj@2a01:e0a:de4:a0e1:be24:11ff:febc:b5b5) |
| 2024-09-03 23:22:15 +0200 | __monty__ | (~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2024-09-03 23:23:04 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 2024-09-03 23:28:02 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2024-09-03 23:29:32 +0200 | CrunchyFlakes | (~CrunchyFl@ip-109-42-114-20.web.vodafone.de) |
| 2024-09-03 23:30:01 +0200 | Luj9 | (~Luj@2a01:e0a:de4:a0e1:be24:11ff:febc:b5b5) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat) |
| 2024-09-03 23:30:40 +0200 | Luj9 | (~Luj@2a01:e0a:de4:a0e1:be24:11ff:febc:b5b5) |
| 2024-09-03 23:31:52 +0200 | spew | (~spew@201.141.99.170) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-09-03 23:34:00 +0200 | glguy | (glguy@libera/staff/glguy) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-09-03 23:35:38 +0200 | sawilagar | (~sawilagar@user/sawilagar) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-09-03 23:36:12 +0200 | sawilagar | (~sawilagar@user/sawilagar) |
| 2024-09-03 23:37:15 +0200 | spew | (~spew@201.141.99.170) |
| 2024-09-03 23:37:49 +0200 | glguy | (glguy@libera/staff/glguy) |
| 2024-09-03 23:38:52 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 2024-09-03 23:39:27 +0200 | spew | (~spew@201.141.99.170) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-09-03 23:40:45 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d50-99-47-73.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2024-09-03 23:42:20 +0200 | sawilagar | (~sawilagar@user/sawilagar) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-09-03 23:42:49 +0200 | sawilagar | (~sawilagar@user/sawilagar) |
| 2024-09-03 23:43:45 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2024-09-03 23:44:59 +0200 | random-jellyfish | (~random-je@user/random-jellyfish) |
| 2024-09-03 23:45:37 +0200 | <random-jellyfish> | :t (.) . (.) |
| 2024-09-03 23:45:38 +0200 | <lambdabot> | (b -> c) -> (a1 -> a2 -> b) -> a1 -> a2 -> c |
| 2024-09-03 23:46:01 +0200 | <random-jellyfish> | How is it possible to compose the composition operator with itself? |
| 2024-09-03 23:46:08 +0200 | <random-jellyfish> | :t (.) |
| 2024-09-03 23:46:09 +0200 | <lambdabot> | (b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> a -> c |
| 2024-09-03 23:46:29 +0200 | <random-jellyfish> | it returns c and takes (b->c) as argument |
| 2024-09-03 23:46:38 +0200 | Unicorn_Princess | (~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) |
| 2024-09-03 23:46:40 +0200 | <random-jellyfish> | those types don't match |
| 2024-09-03 23:46:48 +0200 | <mauke> | :t flip id |
| 2024-09-03 23:46:49 +0200 | <lambdabot> | b -> (b -> c) -> c |
| 2024-09-03 23:46:54 +0200 | <mauke> | why can I flip id? |
| 2024-09-03 23:47:01 +0200 | <c_wraith> | no, it's takes a (b -> c) and returns an ((a ->b) -> a -> c) |
| 2024-09-03 23:47:25 +0200 | <c_wraith> | wow, my grammar went on vacation there or something |
| 2024-09-03 23:47:39 +0200 | <random-jellyfish> | c_wraith okay fair, but do those types match? |
| 2024-09-03 23:47:43 +0200 | <geekosaur> | remember unification. (rename the tyvars in the three uses of (.) and unify them) |
| 2024-09-03 23:48:06 +0200 | <monochrom> | @type flip |
| 2024-09-03 23:48:07 +0200 | <lambdabot> | (a -> b -> c) -> b -> a -> c |
| 2024-09-03 23:49:13 +0200 | random-jellyfish | is confused and dizzy |
| 2024-09-03 23:49:39 +0200 | <monochrom> | When you unify that with id's "t -> t", t and a both become b->c. IOW you're looking at id :: (b->c) -> (b->c), i.e., ($). |
| 2024-09-03 23:50:16 +0200 | spew | (~spew@201.141.99.170) |
| 2024-09-03 23:50:43 +0200 | <geekosaur> | the key point is that each use of (.) has its _own_ a, b, and c. they are only related by usage, which is determined by unification. this is why I advised renaming the type variables in each use |
| 2024-09-03 23:50:57 +0200 | <monochrom> | (.) . (.) is a really good exercise in type inference. Let me put it bluntly: Following the type inference algorithm mechanically, "blindly", "let the symbols do the work", and suppressing your flawed intuition. |
| 2024-09-03 23:51:57 +0200 | <monochrom> | @type id id id id |
| 2024-09-03 23:51:58 +0200 | <lambdabot> | a -> a |
| 2024-09-03 23:52:12 +0200 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 2024-09-03 23:52:15 +0200 | <monochrom> | @quote monochrom 17 |
| 2024-09-03 23:52:15 +0200 | <lambdabot> | monochrom says: I am 17-ary, going on 18-ary, I can take curry of you |
| 2024-09-03 23:55:59 +0200 | <int-e> | the full type of the outermost . is (((a2 -> b) -> a2 -> c) -> (a1 -> a2 -> b) -> a1 -> a2 -> c) -> ((b -> c) -> (a2 -> b) -> a2 -> c) -> (b -> c) -> (a1 -> a2 -> b) -> a1 -> a2 -> c |
| 2024-09-03 23:56:04 +0200 | <int-e> | such beauty. |
| 2024-09-03 23:56:41 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2024-09-03 23:57:10 +0200 | <monochrom> | This is why unification is exponential-time. >:) |
| 2024-09-03 23:57:32 +0200 | spew | (~spew@201.141.99.170) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-09-03 23:57:45 +0200 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) |
| 2024-09-03 23:58:15 +0200 | <int-e> | id id id id never have guessed |
| 2024-09-03 23:59:52 +0200 | <int-e> | If you maintain sharing, unification is almost linear time though. |