2024/08/11

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2024-08-11 09:56:13 +0000 <haskellbridge> <iqubic (she/her)> Hmm... cabal repl failing for me... It's telling me /home/avi: createDirectory: permission denied (Permission denied)
2024-08-11 09:56:21 +0000 <haskellbridge> <iqubic (she/her)> This is odd, because I'm logged in as the use sophia right now, and this project is somewhere in sophia's home directory. I don't actually have any user named "avi" on this machine!
2024-08-11 10:01:03 +0000 <mauke> I've got nothing
2024-08-11 10:01:30 +0000 <mauke> random thought: 'env | grep avi' to see if anything "avi" related sticks out
2024-08-11 10:05:07 +0000Inst(~Inst@user/Inst)
2024-08-11 10:06:03 +0000 <haskellbridge> <iqubic (she/her)> The only thing that comes out is that LS_COLORS has a specific value for "*.avi" files.
2024-08-11 10:21:44 +0000Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-08-11 10:27:42 +0000 <mauke> same
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2024-08-11 14:11:46 +0000 <raehik> In general, is replacing intermediate data types like Either with CPS style going to be more performant?
2024-08-11 14:12:37 +0000 <raehik> as I understand, in both cases I'm relying on compiler optimizations. either I hope that it collapses the intermediate value (if possible), or I hope that it inlines things nicely
2024-08-11 14:21:32 +0000alexherbo2(~alexherbo@2a02-8440-3101-61f8-c44b-a6bc-c7e1-69a0.rev.sfr.net)
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2024-08-11 14:43:38 +0000 <Leary> raehik: Not like /Either/, no. In simple cases it shouldn't matter too much, but it will usually be a little slower. To see significant benefits, the intermediate should be something with more structure (like a list or a tree) and the computation such that you can leverage the fact of certain operations being cheaper in the alternate representation.
2024-08-11 14:43:58 +0000 <Leary> In short: only if it fuses.
2024-08-11 14:45:22 +0000ChaiTRex(~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) (Quit: ChaiTRex)
2024-08-11 14:46:17 +0000ChaiTRex(~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex)
2024-08-11 14:47:00 +0000 <raehik> Leary: thanks. are you saying CPS will be consistently better (assuming implemented correctly)?
2024-08-11 14:48:17 +0000 <raehik> microbenchmarks are showing my intermediate Either approach is 10% faster than my CPS
2024-08-11 14:53:38 +0000 <Leary> No, I'm saying it will be better /only/ when the circumstances of the computation and your own know-how allow it.
2024-08-11 14:54:39 +0000 <raehik> ahh ok. might there be a hard "this one will usually optimize better"?
2024-08-11 14:55:32 +0000 <raehik> in my case I was previously constructing a very temporary Either in the middle of stuff tagged with INLINE. I replaced it with passing a continuation
2024-08-11 14:56:22 +0000 <Leary> "usually" isn't exactly hard. But as I said, the CPS form will usually be a little slower.
2024-08-11 14:57:25 +0000 <Leary> Default to data, bench CPS if you have a niggle.
2024-08-11 14:57:33 +0000 <raehik> cool thanks! I had been wrongly assuming how CPS works
2024-08-11 14:57:58 +0000 <raehik> (I thought it was like tail-call recursion, that GHC just "magically" knows how to optimize it fairly consistently)
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2024-08-11 15:41:43 +0000jamesb(~user@31.94.22.137)
2024-08-11 15:43:35 +0000 <jamesb> hi, in the untyped lambda calculus is it possible to create a function that takes any term and returns the Church Boolean TRUE if that term is a bool, otherwise FALSE?
2024-08-11 15:48:12 +0000Guest|45(~Guest|45@32-81-201-31.ftth.glasoperator.nl)
2024-08-11 15:48:47 +0000 <ncf> jamesb: what do you mean by "is a bool"?
2024-08-11 15:49:01 +0000 <ncf> as in, is equal to λxy.x or λxy.y ?
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2024-08-11 15:51:09 +0000 <monochrom> There may be a halting problem hiding there.
2024-08-11 15:55:03 +0000 <ncf> this looks relevant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott%E2%80%93Curry_theorem
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2024-08-11 16:01:44 +0000 <jamesb> ncf: yeah that's right
2024-08-11 16:02:22 +0000hseg(~gesh@46.120.21.97)
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2024-08-11 16:05:41 +0000 <jamesb> This will return "true" if t is a Church bool: λt. (λx.(λy. t x y) true false) true false
2024-08-11 16:06:24 +0000 <jamesb> but since we've no idea about the structure of t I don't suppose it can work in general...
2024-08-11 16:06:29 +0000tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2024-08-11 16:08:44 +0000 <monochrom> Does it work if I give it (λx. x x) (λx. x x) ?
2024-08-11 16:10:03 +0000machinedgod(~machinedg@d50-99-47-73.abhsia.telus.net)
2024-08-11 16:17:07 +0000 <ncf> even assuming you mean "if" and not "only if", i don't think this works? https://f.monade.li/h5T-9O
2024-08-11 16:17:24 +0000hayk(~hayk@37.252.90.243) (Quit: hayk)
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2024-08-11 16:20:44 +0000 <jamesb> ncf: I think you're right ty
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2024-08-11 16:30:41 +0000 <haskellbridge> <iqubic (she/her)> cabal repl failing for me... It's telling me /home/avi: createDirectory: permission denied (Permission denied)
2024-08-11 16:30:52 +0000 <haskellbridge> <iqubic (she/her)> This is odd, because I'm logged in as the use sophia right now, and this project is somewhere in sophia's home directory. I don't actually have any user named "avi" on this machine.
2024-08-11 16:31:10 +0000 <haskellbridge> <iqubic (she/her)> I used to have a user named "avi" on this system, but I'm trans, so when I changed my name, I created a new user, ran "mv /home/avi /home/sophia" and then deleted the old "avi" user.
2024-08-11 16:32:02 +0000 <monochrom> Something in $HOME/.cabal/config may have hardcoded /home/avi
2024-08-11 16:32:50 +0000 <monochrom> All cabal build products, in fact, have pathnames hardcoded. $HOME/.cabal/store has the lot of them.
2024-08-11 16:32:56 +0000acidjnk_new3(~acidjnk@p200300d6e72cfb372ddfc4847e48f7b9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
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2024-08-11 16:36:57 +0000 <haskellbridge> <iqubic (she/her)> Is there a way I can fix this?
2024-08-11 16:40:53 +0000ZharMeny(~user@user/ZharMeny) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2024-08-11 16:44:32 +0000kiwiirc(~kiwiirc@51.75.171.51)
2024-08-11 16:49:37 +0000ZharMeny(~user@user/ZharMeny)
2024-08-11 16:55:05 +0000 <monochrom> You can edit $HOME/.cabal/config
2024-08-11 16:56:01 +0000 <haskellbridge> <iqubic (she/her)> I don't have a that directory on my system. I'm using NixOS
2024-08-11 16:56:50 +0000WorldControl(~juan@29.sub-75-246-220.myvzw.com)
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2024-08-11 16:57:13 +0000 <geekosaur> nixos wouldn't matter. XDG would: it might be ~/.config/cabal/config instead
2024-08-11 17:00:02 +0000 <haskellbridge> <iqubic (she/her)> That worked.
2024-08-11 17:01:54 +0000 <geekosaur> but you'll still have hardcoded paths in the store, including in binaries: editing won't work. nuke it and start over. (`~/.local/state/cabal/store`)
2024-08-11 17:02:16 +0000 <geekosaur> the stack version is under ~/.stack somewhere, but I don't know details; I'm not a stack user
2024-08-11 17:02:33 +0000 <haskellbridge> <iqubic (she/her)> I'm not a stack user either.
2024-08-11 17:02:45 +0000 <geekosaur> it will also contain hardcoded paths, because that's ultimately a ghc shortcoming
2024-08-11 17:03:06 +0000 <geekosaur> (which nix and stack both try to work around, whereas cabal just lives with it)
2024-08-11 17:03:11 +0000 <haskellbridge> <iqubic (she/her)> I don't have a ~/.stack config.
2024-08-11 17:03:17 +0000 <haskellbridge> <iqubic (she/her)> I don't use stack
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2024-08-11 19:56:04 +0000 <fr33domlover> o/ I'm trying to implement a variant type (without using Any), i.e. given a list of types xs::[Type], it contains a value of exactly one of these types. Here's one of my attempts: http://paste.debian.net/1326111/
2024-08-11 19:56:48 +0000 <fr33domlover> But I'm unsure how to write a function that, gives a x::Type, returns (Maybe x) depending on which type is stored in the HVar
2024-08-11 19:57:53 +0000 <fr33domlover> Anyone has ideas? ^_^ I found a Variant type in the HList package but I can't figure out how to use it + it seems to require use of Tagged types which I don't need
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2024-08-11 20:05:22 +0000neuroevolutus17(~neuroevol@37.19.200.158)
2024-08-11 20:07:47 +0000 <Leary> fr33domlover: Normally it's written recursively with `Here` and `There` constructors, in which case you can write the function with a typeclass. With this representation you'd need to impose `Typeable` constraints and do it dynamically.
2024-08-11 20:09:13 +0000neuroevolutus(~neuroevol@206.217.206.110) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2024-08-11 20:13:59 +0000 <fr33domlover> Thanks Leary! That's the first approach I tried, I'll try it again :) [and I wonder if it's worth creating a package for this if I succeed]
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2024-08-11 20:32:18 +0000halloy5409(~halloy540@147.235.212.157)
2024-08-11 20:34:13 +0000 <[exa]> fr33domlover: whats your usecase for this btw?
2024-08-11 20:36:22 +0000 <halloy5409> i need help. i'm trying to run this code https://paste.tomsmeding.com/aSx7OEzp in https://pbv.github.io/haskelite/site/ but i get there an error: "line 4,col 8: expecting operator", but i don't know why
2024-08-11 20:38:37 +0000 <[exa]> halloy5409: that points precisely to the patternmatch on (:) right?
2024-08-11 20:38:49 +0000 <halloy5409> this code just split a list in specific place into a tuple of two lists. it is working in GHCi without a problem.
2024-08-11 20:39:38 +0000 <halloy5409> [exa] it pointing if i'm not wrong to the '(' of the patttern match
2024-08-11 20:40:03 +0000 <halloy5409> i mean to (x:xs)
2024-08-11 20:40:36 +0000 <halloy5409> how can i fix this?
2024-08-11 20:41:01 +0000 <ncf> sounds like their evaluator is broken
2024-08-11 20:41:19 +0000 <halloy5409> it is great to know that in this time it is not my fault :-)
2024-08-11 20:41:25 +0000 <ncf> https://github.com/pbv/haskelite/issues/new
2024-08-11 20:41:51 +0000 <[exa]> halloy5409: interesting, looks like a haskelite issue to me as well
2024-08-11 20:41:58 +0000 <halloy5409> ncf: will do!
2024-08-11 20:42:18 +0000 <[exa]> OTOH there's no obvious reason why this shouldn't work, they have list patternmatching in working examples
2024-08-11 20:42:33 +0000 <ncf> the where clause is throwing it off for some reason
2024-08-11 20:44:01 +0000 <ncf> specifically the binding pattern in the where clause
2024-08-11 20:44:13 +0000 <ncf> guessing that's just not implemented
2024-08-11 20:45:02 +0000 <Rembane> I tried rewriting the code using let and that didn't work
2024-08-11 20:46:20 +0000 <c_wraith> possible that it doesn't have irrefutable pattern matches at all?
2024-08-11 20:47:16 +0000 <c_wraith> eh, that's probably not it.
2024-08-11 20:47:19 +0000 <[exa]> why does their insert-sort example work? I can't see any actual difference between your code and the example
2024-08-11 20:47:31 +0000 <[exa]> "actual" as in "syntax-wise" ofc :]
2024-08-11 20:47:48 +0000 <[exa]> ( https://pbv.github.io/haskelite/site/insert.html )
2024-08-11 20:48:08 +0000peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2024-08-11 20:48:45 +0000itaipu(~itaipu@168.121.98.114)
2024-08-11 20:50:07 +0000 <[exa]> mmmmhm
2024-08-11 20:51:45 +0000 <[exa]> halloy5409: looks like they don't really support in/where
2024-08-11 20:51:55 +0000 <[exa]> this works for me: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/EpwZfdRh
2024-08-11 20:52:29 +0000 <monochrom> But "f x = y where y = x" is accepted. :)
2024-08-11 20:52:52 +0000 <[exa]> yeah it's weird
2024-08-11 20:53:06 +0000 <[exa]> maybe let+patternmatch fails?
2024-08-11 20:53:17 +0000 <c_wraith> I modified the insert sort example to have a trivial let in it, and it failed.
2024-08-11 20:53:33 +0000 <c_wraith> I think the parser is messed up
2024-08-11 20:53:33 +0000 <monochrom> Generally pattern bindings e.g. (x,y) = (1,2)
2024-08-11 20:53:56 +0000 <c_wraith> I mean a *trivial* let.
2024-08-11 20:54:09 +0000 <[exa]> yeah, `...where (anything,y)=x` fails
2024-08-11 20:54:27 +0000 <c_wraith> > let in foo
2024-08-11 20:54:29 +0000 <lambdabot> error:
2024-08-11 20:54:29 +0000 <lambdabot> • Variable not in scope: foo
2024-08-11 20:54:29 +0000 <lambdabot> • Perhaps you meant ‘for’ (imported from Data.Traversable)
2024-08-11 20:54:32 +0000 <monochrom> Oh, it doesn't even allow "f x = let y = x in y" :)
2024-08-11 20:54:40 +0000 <c_wraith> > let in 1 -- uh, this
2024-08-11 20:54:41 +0000 <lambdabot> 1
2024-08-11 20:54:45 +0000 <c_wraith> that breaks it
2024-08-11 20:54:53 +0000 <c_wraith> the parser is just not right
2024-08-11 20:54:57 +0000 <[exa]> somehow I love to read that as "let the one in!!!"
2024-08-11 20:55:11 +0000 <c_wraith> > let in Right 1
2024-08-11 20:55:12 +0000 <lambdabot> Right 1
2024-08-11 20:55:18 +0000 <c_wraith> there, now it's a zombie movie
2024-08-11 20:56:07 +0000 <[exa]> lol
2024-08-11 20:57:04 +0000 <halloy5409> [exa]: thanks for the code example. i opened an issue.
2024-08-11 20:58:40 +0000tv(~tv@user/tv)
2024-08-11 20:59:36 +0000 <monochrom> https://pbv.github.io/haskelite/site/language.html documents not supporting pattern bindings. However, it documents supporting let too.
2024-08-11 21:00:03 +0000 <c_wraith> so it really doesn't support irrefutable pattern matches. But it's buggy on top of that.
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2024-08-11 21:50:25 +0000 <Leary> fr33domlover: Spoilers: <https://gist.github.com/LSLeary/544923ed7a2a1f72cdc0f213ebe013b5>. Also, I remembered the name of a package that provides these things: 'union'.
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