| 2024-06-26 00:00:47 +0000 | <EvanR> | there might be some more you could try https://stackoverflow.com/questions/6115459/small-haskell-program-compiled-with-ghc-into-huge-bina… |
| 2024-06-26 00:04:54 +0000 | <joeyadams> | Thanks. Maybe I should just create a single record and derive FromJSON, and look at the assembly. I'm mainly curious why it takes so much code to do (what should be) so little. |
| 2024-06-26 00:08:11 +0000 | joeyadams | (~joeyadams@2607:fb91:1617:1400:929b:26f0:654:cc5a) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2024-06-26 00:08:21 +0000 | gmg | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2024-06-26 00:18:55 +0000 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 2024-06-26 00:19:29 +0000 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-176-000-205-223.176.0.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-06-26 00:22:05 +0000 | <jackdk> | @tell joeyadams https://well-typed.com/blog/2021/08/large-records/ might be relevant here |
| 2024-06-26 00:22:05 +0000 | <lambdabot> | Consider it noted. |
| 2024-06-26 00:22:18 +0000 | <Axman6> | yeah that came to mind for me too |
| 2024-06-26 00:22:38 +0000 | <Axman6> | also ping EvanR since you were looking into it too |
| 2024-06-26 00:27:09 +0000 | philopsos1 | (~caecilius@user/philopsos) |
| 2024-06-26 00:33:31 +0000 | <safinaskar> | @tell joeyadams also try self-unpacking binaries :) |
| 2024-06-26 00:33:32 +0000 | <lambdabot> | Consider it noted. |
| 2024-06-26 00:35:10 +0000 | henry40408 | (~henry4040@175.182.111.183) (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)) |
| 2024-06-26 00:35:17 +0000 | joeyadams | (~joeyadams@2603:6010:5100:2ed:c9:f4bd:32a:187d) |
| 2024-06-26 00:35:36 +0000 | henry40408 | (~henry4040@175.182.111.183) |
| 2024-06-26 00:37:14 +0000 | <joeyadams> | Thanks, jackdk, looking at it now. |
| 2024-06-26 00:42:36 +0000 | <safinaskar> | bye |
| 2024-06-26 00:42:39 +0000 | safinaskar | (~quassel@212.73.77.104) () |
| 2024-06-26 00:44:27 +0000 | szkl | (uid110435@id-110435.uxbridge.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2024-06-26 00:48:39 +0000 | safinaskar | (~quassel@212.73.77.104) |
| 2024-06-26 00:48:50 +0000 | safinaskar | (~quassel@212.73.77.104) () |
| 2024-06-26 00:51:18 +0000 | sudden | (~cat@user/sudden) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2024-06-26 00:52:31 +0000 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d173-183-246-216.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2024-06-26 00:55:39 +0000 | edrx | (~Eduardo@170-233-51-85.static.sumicity.net.br) |
| 2024-06-26 00:57:01 +0000 | <edrx> | hi all! gmorning! |
| 2024-06-26 00:57:44 +0000 | <edrx> | I wrote a program to help me typeset type inferences using underbrace diagrams - it generates figures like this: https://i.ibb.co/8mZ2VVp/sshot.png |
| 2024-06-26 00:58:18 +0000 | <edrx> | but the "=>" looks ugly - i.e., the \textsf{=>} looks ugly. |
| 2024-06-26 00:58:28 +0000 | <edrx> | what would you use instead? suggestions? |
| 2024-06-26 01:01:20 +0000 | puke | (~puke@user/puke) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-06-26 01:01:57 +0000 | emmanuelux | (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) (Quit: au revoir) |
| 2024-06-26 01:02:58 +0000 | puke | (~puke@user/puke) |
| 2024-06-26 01:03:36 +0000 | sudden | (~cat@user/sudden) |
| 2024-06-26 01:03:51 +0000 | pointlessslippe1 | (~pointless@212.82.82.3) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2024-06-26 01:15:35 +0000 | kaskal | (~kaskal@213-147-165-88.nat.highway.webapn.at) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-06-26 01:19:16 +0000 | <pavonia> | edrx: \Rightarrow or \Longrightarrow |
| 2024-06-26 01:52:06 +0000 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@2a05:5800:2d8:3a00:e6b9:7aff:fe80:3d03) |
| 2024-06-26 01:58:53 +0000 | masterbuilder | (~quassel@user/masterbuilder) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2024-06-26 01:59:29 +0000 | masterbuilder | (~quassel@user/masterbuilder) |
| 2024-06-26 01:59:54 +0000 | glguy | (g@libera/staff/glguy) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-06-26 02:07:30 +0000 | dcoutts_ | (~duncan@2a00:23c6:1c8d:901:b94:4566:9d63:4848) |
| 2024-06-26 02:08:29 +0000 | dcoutts | (~duncan@2a00:23c6:1c8d:901:b94:4566:9d63:4848) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2024-06-26 02:19:51 +0000 | rosco | (~rosco@175.136.155.137) |
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| 2024-06-26 02:26:17 +0000 | madhavanmiui | (~madhavanm@2409:40f4:305f:dd79:8000::) |
| 2024-06-26 02:26:41 +0000 | madhavanmiui | (~madhavanm@2409:40f4:305f:dd79:8000::) (Client Quit) |
| 2024-06-26 02:27:09 +0000 | waleee | (~waleee@h-176-10-144-38.NA.cust.bahnhof.se) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2024-06-26 02:41:56 +0000 | zmt00 | (~zmt00@user/zmt00) |
| 2024-06-26 02:49:05 +0000 | td_ | (~td@i53870933.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-06-26 02:51:08 +0000 | td_ | (~td@i53870920.versanet.de) |
| 2024-06-26 02:54:15 +0000 | glguy | (g@libera/staff/glguy) |
| 2024-06-26 03:11:11 +0000 | xff0x | (~xff0x@125x103x176x34.ap125.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) |
| 2024-06-26 03:15:08 +0000 | CrunchyFlakes | (~CrunchyFl@ip92348280.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-06-26 03:17:39 +0000 | CrunchyFlakes | (~CrunchyFl@ip92348280.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2024-06-26 03:18:45 +0000 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-176-001-135-109.176.1.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2024-06-26 03:23:17 +0000 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-176-001-135-109.176.1.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2024-06-26 03:24:15 +0000 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-176-007-155-229.176.7.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2024-06-26 03:37:30 +0000 | bitdex | (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) |
| 2024-06-26 03:38:11 +0000 | aforemny_ | (~aforemny@2001:9e8:6cc2:bc00:8b6d:59f0:33e:e82a) |
| 2024-06-26 03:38:50 +0000 | MelMalik | Reinhilde |
| 2024-06-26 03:39:07 +0000 | aforemny | (~aforemny@2001:9e8:6cdd:b100:c11c:c2a2:7e21:6fd9) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2024-06-26 03:43:27 +0000 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@2a05:5800:2d8:3a00:e6b9:7aff:fe80:3d03) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2024-06-26 03:46:40 +0000 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-176-007-155-229.176.7.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-06-26 03:47:57 +0000 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2024-06-26 03:57:22 +0000 | <edrx> | pavonia: thanks =) |
| 2024-06-26 03:57:49 +0000 | edrx | (~Eduardo@170-233-51-85.static.sumicity.net.br) (Killed buffer) |
| 2024-06-26 04:07:08 +0000 | wbooze | (~wbooze@2a02:908:1244:9a20:3ca9:9685:6335:ca5e) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-06-26 04:09:48 +0000 | zzz | (~yin@user/zero) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2024-06-26 04:11:41 +0000 | zzz | (~yin@user/zero) |
| 2024-06-26 04:19:06 +0000 | rosco | (~rosco@175.136.155.137) (Quit: Lost terminal) |
| 2024-06-26 04:22:02 +0000 | vizimajac | (vizimajac@shell.xshellz.com) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-06-26 04:27:18 +0000 | zzz | (~yin@user/zero) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2024-06-26 04:29:55 +0000 | joeyadams | (~joeyadams@2603:6010:5100:2ed:c9:f4bd:32a:187d) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2024-06-26 04:32:56 +0000 | takuan | (~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) |
| 2024-06-26 04:34:01 +0000 | zzz | (~yin@user/zero) |
| 2024-06-26 04:43:58 +0000 | ss4 | (~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-06-26 04:53:35 +0000 | <monochrom> | I have been using ASCII art to show the equiv of that kind of underbrace diagrams. |
| 2024-06-26 04:54:34 +0000 | <monochrom> | For example when explaining "map (map f)" and "pure f <*> x <*> y <*> z <*> ..." |
| 2024-06-26 04:58:20 +0000 | philopsos1 | (~caecilius@user/philopsos) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-06-26 04:58:23 +0000 | <haskellbridge> | <iqubic (she/her)> Isn't that second one just "lift2A" but expanded to many more args? |
| 2024-06-26 04:59:22 +0000 | <monochrom> | Yes. |
| 2024-06-26 04:59:23 +0000 | aaronv | (~aaronv@user/aaronv) |
| 2024-06-26 04:59:35 +0000 | talismanick | (~user@2601:644:937c:ed10::ae5) |
| 2024-06-26 04:59:42 +0000 | <monochrom> | Well, yes if s/just// |
| 2024-06-26 05:00:12 +0000 | <haskellbridge> | <iqubic (she/her)> "pure f <_> x <_> y <_> z <_>..." is of type "Applicative f => a (a -> b -> c -> ...) -> f a -> f b -> f c -> ..." |
| 2024-06-26 05:00:37 +0000 | <haskellbridge> | <iqubic (she/her)> Erm... "Applicative f => (a -> b -> c -> ...) -> f a -> f b -> f c -> ..." |
| 2024-06-26 05:08:10 +0000 | philopsos1 | (~caecilius@user/philopsos) |
| 2024-06-26 05:23:11 +0000 | zzz | (~yin@user/zero) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2024-06-26 05:30:02 +0000 | <EvanR> | oof at all that quadraticness of large records |
| 2024-06-26 05:30:10 +0000 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-06-26 05:33:23 +0000 | <haskellbridge> | <iqubic (she/her)> Where does that come from? |
| 2024-06-26 05:45:21 +0000 | acidjnk_new3 | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e714dc96bd88011075acd305.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2024-06-26 05:45:28 +0000 | notzmv | (~daniel@user/notzmv) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2024-06-26 05:48:15 +0000 | ft | (~ft@p4fc2ab80.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2024-06-26 05:54:28 +0000 | aaronv | (~aaronv@user/aaronv) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-06-26 05:54:52 +0000 | aaronv | (~aaronv@user/aaronv) |
| 2024-06-26 06:05:42 +0000 | generalbigm | (~generalbi@2001:250:3c0f:2000::e751) |
| 2024-06-26 06:08:51 +0000 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
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| 2024-06-26 06:18:38 +0000 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2024-06-26 06:20:34 +0000 | raym | (~ray@user/raym) (Quit: rebooting...) |
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| 2024-06-26 07:03:05 +0000 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2024-06-26 07:03:17 +0000 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2024-06-26 07:03:19 +0000 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-176-007-144-132.176.7.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2024-06-26 07:08:02 +0000 | sord937 | (~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) |
| 2024-06-26 07:09:01 +0000 | generalbigm1 | (~generalbi@2001:250:3c0f:2000::e751) |
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| 2024-06-26 07:09:39 +0000 | pointlessslippe1 | (~pointless@212.82.82.3) |
| 2024-06-26 07:11:19 +0000 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!) |
| 2024-06-26 07:11:34 +0000 | johnny54 | (~johnny@2401:e180:8d50:3483:9060:7f14:5c50:80ae) |
| 2024-06-26 07:23:38 +0000 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-176-007-144-132.176.7.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 2024-06-26 07:25:51 +0000 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
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| 2024-06-26 07:36:07 +0000 | poscat0x04 | (~poscat@user/poscat) (Quit: Bye) |
| 2024-06-26 07:38:25 +0000 | poscat | (~poscat@user/poscat) |
| 2024-06-26 07:40:43 +0000 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-06-26 07:43:53 +0000 | euleritian | (~euleritia@77.22.252.56) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
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| 2024-06-26 07:55:30 +0000 | philopsos1 | (~caecilius@user/philopsos) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2024-06-26 07:56:58 +0000 | notzmv | (~daniel@user/notzmv) |
| 2024-06-26 07:57:20 +0000 | rosco | (~rosco@175.136.155.137) (Quit: Lost terminal) |
| 2024-06-26 07:58:07 +0000 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d173-183-246-216.abhsia.telus.net) |
| 2024-06-26 08:02:38 +0000 | vizimajac | (~Rodney@97e7368c.skybroadband.com) |
| 2024-06-26 08:05:41 +0000 | generalbigm1 | (~generalbi@2001:250:3c0f:2000::e751) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2024-06-26 08:13:51 +0000 | talismanick | (~user@2601:644:937c:ed10::ae5) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-06-26 08:16:58 +0000 | RiXSon | (~rixson@77-234-86-141.pool.digikabel.hu) |
| 2024-06-26 08:21:32 +0000 | lxsameer | (~lxsameer@Serene/lxsameer) |
| 2024-06-26 08:23:22 +0000 | generalbigm | (~generalbi@2001:250:3c0f:2000::e751) |
| 2024-06-26 08:25:47 +0000 | chele | (~chele@user/chele) |
| 2024-06-26 08:26:57 +0000 | aaronv | (~aaronv@user/aaronv) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2024-06-26 08:27:41 +0000 | danse-nr3 | (~danse-nr3@151.43.199.86) |
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| 2024-06-26 08:46:32 +0000 | YoungFrog | (~youngfrog@2a02:a03f:c9db:fc00:51d9:348e:70e7:cc59) |
| 2024-06-26 08:52:16 +0000 | poscat | (~poscat@user/poscat) (Quit: Bye) |
| 2024-06-26 08:52:27 +0000 | __monty__ | (~toonn@user/toonn) |
| 2024-06-26 08:53:01 +0000 | Unicorn_Princess | (~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) |
| 2024-06-26 08:56:06 +0000 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-176-007-144-132.176.7.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-06-26 08:56:37 +0000 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2024-06-26 08:57:23 +0000 | causal | (~eric@50.35.88.207) |
| 2024-06-26 09:16:10 +0000 | gehmehgeh | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) |
| 2024-06-26 09:19:36 +0000 | ubert | (~Thunderbi@2a02:8109:ab8a:5a00:1824:df35:e28:ab6b) |
| 2024-06-26 09:20:26 +0000 | gehmehgeh | gmg |
| 2024-06-26 09:22:49 +0000 | poscat | (~poscat@user/poscat) |
| 2024-06-26 09:24:10 +0000 | ubert | (~Thunderbi@2a02:8109:ab8a:5a00:1824:df35:e28:ab6b) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-06-26 09:24:22 +0000 | ubert | (~Thunderbi@2a02:8109:ab8a:5a00:f376:2bd9:f376:d9df) |
| 2024-06-26 09:27:20 +0000 | talismanick | (~user@2601:644:937c:ed10::ae5) |
| 2024-06-26 09:30:26 +0000 | Miroboru | (~myrvoll@178-164-114.82.3p.ntebredband.no) |
| 2024-06-26 09:33:53 +0000 | poscat | (~poscat@user/poscat) (Quit: Bye) |
| 2024-06-26 09:34:08 +0000 | poscat | (~poscat@user/poscat) |
| 2024-06-26 09:39:15 +0000 | <lxsameer> | hey folks, is there any ready to use functionality to collect a list of computations run them and pass the result of each of them after an automatic error handling to the next one? it should be thread safe |
| 2024-06-26 09:39:45 +0000 | econo_ | (uid147250@id-147250.tinside.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2024-06-26 09:40:41 +0000 | poscat | (~poscat@user/poscat) (Quit: Bye) |
| 2024-06-26 09:41:49 +0000 | <ncf> | traverse |
| 2024-06-26 09:43:19 +0000 | <ncf> | oh, pass the result. then foldr (>=>) pure i guess? |
| 2024-06-26 09:43:24 +0000 | tzh | (~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz) |
| 2024-06-26 09:44:04 +0000 | poscat | (~poscat@user/poscat) |
| 2024-06-26 09:44:44 +0000 | <lxsameer> | ncf: what about the error handling part |
| 2024-06-26 09:45:01 +0000 | <ncf> | ExceptT |
| 2024-06-26 09:45:50 +0000 | aaronv | (~aaronv@user/aaronv) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-06-26 09:45:57 +0000 | <lxsameer> | thank you |
| 2024-06-26 09:46:14 +0000 | aaronv | (~aaronv@user/aaronv) |
| 2024-06-26 09:46:53 +0000 | <hc> | What exactly do you mean by "thread safe" in this context? |
| 2024-06-26 09:50:39 +0000 | <lxsameer> | hc: I want to have a few threads all running a list of computation. on error, i want to know which thread and which computation raised that error. so some sort of coordination between threads is needed |
| 2024-06-26 09:54:37 +0000 | <__monty__> | But if each thread needs the results of the previous computation why are there threads and what would not be thread safe? |
| 2024-06-26 09:57:46 +0000 | aforemny_ | (~aforemny@2001:9e8:6cc2:bc00:8b6d:59f0:33e:e82a) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in) |
| 2024-06-26 09:57:54 +0000 | <lxsameer> | __monty__: let's say I need to create 4 list of jobs, each list runs in a thread, I need a 5th thread to act as a coordinator. receive certain errors from the threads and decide what to do with it. (local errors that are trivial can be handled in the theard) |
| 2024-06-26 09:58:08 +0000 | aforemny | (~aforemny@i59F516D5.versanet.de) |
| 2024-06-26 10:11:17 +0000 | xff0x | (~xff0x@125x103x176x34.ap125.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-06-26 10:14:04 +0000 | lortabac | (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:55ab:e185:7f81:54a4) (Quit: WeeChat 4.2.2) |
| 2024-06-26 10:18:03 +0000 | aaronv | (~aaronv@user/aaronv) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2024-06-26 10:24:44 +0000 | vizimajac | (~Rodney@97e7368c.skybroadband.com) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2024-06-26 10:28:26 +0000 | cfricke | (~cfricke@user/cfricke) (Quit: WeeChat 4.2.2) |
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| 2024-06-26 16:51:37 +0000 | <Franciman> | hi, does haskell have first class support for knowledge graphs? |
| 2024-06-26 16:53:16 +0000 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> hi Franciman , what would that look like ? |
| 2024-06-26 16:53:27 +0000 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d173-183-246-216.abhsia.telus.net) |
| 2024-06-26 16:54:32 +0000 | <Franciman> | hi @sm, base level would be supporting rdf as a format |
| 2024-06-26 16:54:34 +0000 | <Franciman> | and i see |
| 2024-06-26 16:54:37 +0000 | <Franciman> | @package rdf |
| 2024-06-26 16:54:37 +0000 | <lambdabot> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/rdf |
| 2024-06-26 16:54:58 +0000 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> ah.. yes |
| 2024-06-26 16:55:01 +0000 | <Franciman> | but is there libraries for supporting reasoning? |
| 2024-06-26 16:55:04 +0000 | <Franciman> | with ontologies |
| 2024-06-26 16:55:34 +0000 | <Franciman> | or queries |
| 2024-06-26 16:55:38 +0000 | <Franciman> | for example conjunctive queries |
| 2024-06-26 16:55:46 +0000 | <duncan> | there is a minikanren |
| 2024-06-26 16:56:56 +0000 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> I don't know if https://flora.pm/packages/@hackage/hsparql is relevant |
| 2024-06-26 16:57:06 +0000 | ubert | (~Thunderbi@2a02:8109:ab8a:5a00:f376:2bd9:f376:d9df) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-06-26 16:57:13 +0000 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> or https://flora.pm/packages/@hackage/XSaiga |
| 2024-06-26 16:57:58 +0000 | <Franciman> | thanks a lot @sm |
| 2024-06-26 16:58:01 +0000 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> which use http://robstewart57.github.io/rdf4h/ |
| 2024-06-26 16:58:24 +0000 | <Franciman> | what is this flora.pm? |
| 2024-06-26 16:58:30 +0000 | <Franciman> | is it a mirror for hackage? |
| 2024-06-26 16:58:41 +0000 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2024-06-26 16:58:48 +0000 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> an alternate UI/mirror, yes |
| 2024-06-26 16:59:58 +0000 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> I switched to it just now to get a more stable page layout |
| 2024-06-26 17:00:13 +0000 | <Franciman> | kewl |
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| 2024-06-26 18:13:35 +0000 | Lord_of_Life_ | Lord_of_Life |
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| 2024-06-26 19:19:35 +0000 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@2a05:5800:2d8:3a00:e6b9:7aff:fe80:3d03) |
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| 2024-06-26 19:26:50 +0000 | <kqr> | Hello all! I am making some experiments in Haskell after about a 7 year hiatus from it, and I have one confusion I don't remember having before. I'm intending to use the `assign` function from Control.Lens, so I wanted to check what sort of state type to use. I clicked the MonadState constraint in the Haddocks and ended up in the adjunctions package which defines a State type. So far, so good. |
| 2024-06-26 19:26:53 +0000 | <kqr> | however, when I want to evalState this State type, it expects me to pass a `Rep g` as the initial input, and I just don't understand what this Representable thing is! Am I going about something backwards? |
| 2024-06-26 19:27:30 +0000 | noumenon | (~noumenon@113.51-175-156.customer.lyse.net) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2024-06-26 19:29:00 +0000 | <haskellbridge> | <iqubic (she/her)> You want this, from MTL: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/mtl-2.3.1/docs/Control-Monad-State-Class.html#t:MonadState |
| 2024-06-26 19:29:24 +0000 | <ncf> | it seems like lens uses its own MonadState from adjunctions, but you can (and should probably) use it with the StateT from transformers/mtl |
| 2024-06-26 19:29:47 +0000 | <energizer> | defining a function `cartesianProduct xs ys` is there a convention about defining it in terms of recursion on the left or right argument? ie `cartesianProduct _ [] = []` or `cartesianProduct [] _ = []` which is preferred, or does it depend on something? |
| 2024-06-26 19:30:44 +0000 | <kqr> | ncf, That sounds more like what I remember! Thanks! How can all these State implementations/interfaces be compatible? |
| 2024-06-26 19:31:18 +0000 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> energizer: I think the rule of thumb is something like, most changeable arguments to the right, to make partial application more convenient |
| 2024-06-26 19:31:26 +0000 | <ncf> | there is simply a adjunctions.MonadState instance for transformers.StateT |
| 2024-06-26 19:31:50 +0000 | <energizer> | sm in this case the arguments are symmetric, the only difference is left/right |
| 2024-06-26 19:31:55 +0000 | <ncf> | energizer: it doesn't really matter as long as you document it, but i would expect that to behave as liftA2 (,) |
| 2024-06-26 19:31:58 +0000 | <jackdk> | kqr: adjunctions re-exports `MonadState` from mtl, so it's the one you know and remember. It's providing its own monad with an instance. |
| 2024-06-26 19:32:06 +0000 | <ncf> | > liftA2 (,) [1,2] [3,4] |
| 2024-06-26 19:32:08 +0000 | <lambdabot> | [(1,3),(1,4),(2,3),(2,4)] |
| 2024-06-26 19:32:10 +0000 | <kqr> | ncf, Oh, yes, of course. It was a few years ago, as I said. Thank you again! |
| 2024-06-26 19:32:26 +0000 | <mauke> | energizer: I'd expect recursion on the first argument |
| 2024-06-26 19:38:40 +0000 | <energizer> | mauke: can you say why? |
| 2024-06-26 19:40:21 +0000 | philopsos1 | (~caecilius@user/philopsos) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2024-06-26 19:40:21 +0000 | <mauke> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ghc-internal-9.1001.0/docs/src/GHC.Internal.List.html#zip |
| 2024-06-26 19:42:10 +0000 | <energizer> | that recurses on both arguments because it has to |
| 2024-06-26 19:44:59 +0000 | <mauke> | yes, but it starts by checking the first argument first |
| 2024-06-26 19:48:09 +0000 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
| 2024-06-26 19:50:26 +0000 | danse-nr3 | (~danse-nr3@151.46.175.239) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-06-26 19:53:09 +0000 | <haskellbridge> | <iqubic (she/her)> I guess for reasons of like, "it's so easy to do partial application in Haskell", you might want to check the first argument first, and short-circuit if needed. That prevents you from needing to write "flip f" in cases where that's equivalent, just for the extra performance boost. |
| 2024-06-26 20:14:56 +0000 | philopsos1 | (~caecilius@user/philopsos) |
| 2024-06-26 20:25:54 +0000 | wbooze | (~wbooze@2a02:908:1244:9a20:e9e0:ebc4:94b1:46e6) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-06-26 20:29:51 +0000 | wootehfoot | (~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-06-26 20:31:45 +0000 | <energizer> | Supposing it's defined in terms of `cartesianProduct f [] ys = []; cartesianProduct f (x:xs) ys =`, what is `cartesianProduct f xs (y:ys)` equal to? It's not just `cartesianProduct (flip f) (y:ys) xs` because that puts the result in the wrong order. Is there a nice way to express the result? |
| 2024-06-26 20:32:54 +0000 | wbooze | (~wbooze@2a02:908:1244:9a20:3d84:fc89:d93b:3334) |
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| 2024-06-26 20:35:19 +0000 | Xe | (~cadey@bras-base-orlnon0609w-grc-21-184-145-123-58.dsl.bell.ca) |
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| 2024-06-26 20:35:29 +0000 | Xe | (~cadey@perl/impostor/xe) |
| 2024-06-26 20:37:11 +0000 | soverysour | (~soverysou@user/soverysour) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
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| 2024-06-26 20:51:31 +0000 | <ncf> | you mean in terms of cartesianProduct f xs ys? it's going to be some ugly one-in-length-ys-interleaving of f y's |
| 2024-06-26 21:08:50 +0000 | Miroboru | (~myrvoll@178-164-114.82.3p.ntebredband.no) (Quit: Lost terminal) |
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| 2024-06-26 22:07:58 +0000 | safinaskar | (~quassel@212.73.77.104) |
| 2024-06-26 22:08:54 +0000 | <safinaskar> | hi. i just proved in haskell that (0 + x = x) from (x + 0 = x) and induction https://godbolt.org/z/Tvqdaozoh |
| 2024-06-26 22:09:09 +0000 | <safinaskar> | i did NOT implement prover in haskell, i used type system of haskell itself as a prover |
| 2024-06-26 22:10:53 +0000 | <safinaskar> | unfortunately, i just understand that my proof is wrong. type application in haskell is injective, thus in my code (Add (N Z) Z ~ Add Z (N Z)) (this is true) implies (Z ~ N Z) (which is false) |
| 2024-06-26 22:10:59 +0000 | <safinaskar> | is there a way to fix this? |
| 2024-06-26 22:11:48 +0000 | <safinaskar> | maybe there is some experimental feature of haskell, which disables type application injectivity? |
| 2024-06-26 22:14:46 +0000 | <ncf> | it's injective with respect to type equality (~) (in some cases), but it shouldn't be injective with respect to your custom Equal type, should it? |
| 2024-06-26 22:15:16 +0000 | <ncf> | since you've gone with the weird axiomatic definition instead of the inductive definition with a refl constructor |
| 2024-06-26 22:15:19 +0000 | <safinaskar> | ncf: hmm, seems correct. thank you! |
| 2024-06-26 22:15:56 +0000 | <ncf> | i'm not even sure which type families are considered injective. https://ghc.gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/doc/users_guide/exts/type_families.html has some information |
| 2024-06-26 22:15:57 +0000 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) |
| 2024-06-26 22:22:41 +0000 | <zzz> | are typefamilies worth it or can i just get by with "simple" haskell? |
| 2024-06-26 22:24:00 +0000 | <monochrom> | I'm going to answer tautologically. Type families are worth it when you need type families. You can get by with simple Haskell when simple Haskell suffices. |
| 2024-06-26 22:24:01 +0000 | acidjnk_new3 | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e714dc96bd88011075acd305.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2024-06-26 22:24:04 +0000 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2024-06-26 22:24:27 +0000 | <monochrom> | But I will add that I have only ever needed fairly simple Haskell most of the time. |
| 2024-06-26 22:25:14 +0000 | <monochrom> | But there are times when I miss SML's parametrized modules, and I can use type families to do something similar. |
| 2024-06-26 22:26:12 +0000 | <monochrom> | i.e., when I want to make some fairly general abstraction. |
| 2024-06-26 22:27:05 +0000 | <monochrom> | Or IOW when I use type families, it's for general template-like things, not for dependent typing. |
| 2024-06-26 22:27:27 +0000 | <EvanR> | type synonym family is a fairly simple way to reduce the verbosity of some type level shenanigans, they just expand to some other shenanigan |
| 2024-06-26 22:27:56 +0000 | <safinaskar> | ncf: unfortunately, no. see: https://godbolt.org/z/xEa54v666 . see "oops1" and "oops2" in the end. unfortunately i was able to prove that my Equal is equivalent to standard haskell equality |
| 2024-06-26 22:27:57 +0000 | <EvanR> | associated type synonym family in a class can sometimes save you from multi-parameter type classes |
| 2024-06-26 22:28:08 +0000 | michalz | (~michalz@185.246.207.205) (Quit: ZNC 1.9.0 - https://znc.in) |
| 2024-06-26 22:28:27 +0000 | <monochrom> | Yeah that's what I use them for. |
| 2024-06-26 22:28:30 +0000 | <EvanR> | for the sake of argument "simple haskell" doesn't have you doing any of those so those don't help |
| 2024-06-26 22:28:53 +0000 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@2a05:5800:2d8:3a00:e6b9:7aff:fe80:3d03) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2024-06-26 22:28:59 +0000 | <safinaskar> | (and no, i cannot just remove "subst", i use it in proof of "subst2" and i use "subst2" in proof of (0 + x = x) ) |
| 2024-06-26 22:28:59 +0000 | <ncf> | safinaskar: good point |
| 2024-06-26 22:29:11 +0000 | <zzz> | that was my suspicion |
| 2024-06-26 22:29:29 +0000 | <zzz> | i barey do any type-level acrobatics |
| 2024-06-26 22:29:51 +0000 | <zzz> | s/barey/barely |
| 2024-06-26 22:31:31 +0000 | <safinaskar> | ncf: "i'm not even sure which type families are considered injective" - according to https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.20.0.1/docs/Data-Type-Equality.html#v:inner (f a ~ g b) always implies (a ~ b). but this relies on the fact that we can substitute given type-level function to "f" and "g" |
| 2024-06-26 22:32:04 +0000 | <safinaskar> | ncf: so the rule is here: all type-level functions, which can be substituted to type-level variables, are injective |
| 2024-06-26 22:32:58 +0000 | <safinaskar> | ncf: in particular (i checked this using expirement) if we have "type Foo a = ...", then "Foo" cannot be substituted, so "Foo" is not injective. But "Foo a" can be substituted, and thus it is injective |
| 2024-06-26 22:33:21 +0000 | <dolio> | inner does not say type families are injective, because `f` and `g` do not range over type families. |
| 2024-06-26 22:34:49 +0000 | <safinaskar> | dolio: i did expirement, and result are so. if i have "type family Foo a :: Type -> Type", then "Foo" cannot be substituted and thus is not injective. but "Foo a" can be substituted and thus injective |
| 2024-06-26 22:35:02 +0000 | <safinaskar> | dolio: so yes, type families are not injective |
| 2024-06-26 22:35:13 +0000 | <safinaskar> | type level functions are |
| 2024-06-26 22:35:59 +0000 | waleee | (~waleee@h-176-10-144-38.NA.cust.bahnhof.se) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-06-26 22:36:01 +0000 | <safinaskar> | it seems i found solution. i just need to define "type family Add a b :: Nat", not "type family Add :: Nat -> Nat -> Nat" |
| 2024-06-26 22:36:06 +0000 | <safinaskar> | cool! |
| 2024-06-26 22:37:47 +0000 | <geekosaur> | they are if you declare them right (https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/9.10.1/docs/users_guide/exts/type_families.html#injective-type-f…) |
| 2024-06-26 22:37:59 +0000 | waleee | (~waleee@h-176-10-144-38.NA.cust.bahnhof.se) |
| 2024-06-26 22:44:04 +0000 | <safinaskar> | zzz: "are typefamilies worth it or can i just get by with "simple" haskell?" - i never needed type families except for this very weird code |
| 2024-06-26 22:47:49 +0000 | JimL | (~quassel@89.162.16.26) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2024-06-26 22:51:09 +0000 | waleee | (~waleee@h-176-10-144-38.NA.cust.bahnhof.se) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2024-06-26 22:53:40 +0000 | <safinaskar> | ncf: thanks for link. i just slightly have read it. and yes, now i know that type families can be injective if specially annotated. i. e. one can add more injectivity to a program if needed |
| 2024-06-26 22:54:24 +0000 | <safinaskar> | ncf: but in my case i want less injectivity, not more. and i already know how to do this. "type family Add a b :: Nat" instead of "type family Add :: Nat -> Nat -> Nat" |
| 2024-06-26 22:55:43 +0000 | <ncf> | (i have no idea why this works) |
| 2024-06-26 23:04:14 +0000 | <safinaskar> | ncf: i think i know why this works. "type family Add a b :: Nat" is somewhat similar to usual type synonym "type Add a b = ....". they are not injective (because you can easily write "type Add a b = Char"). and thus you should always apply all arguments, i. e. you cannot write (f @Add), you should write (f @(Add a b)). otherwise you could prove injectivity using "Data.Type.Equality.inner" |
| 2024-06-26 23:05:34 +0000 | <safinaskar> | ncf: and in "type family Add :: Nat -> Nat -> Nat" we have injectivity (because one cannot define non-injective "Add"), thus we can rely on it |
| 2024-06-26 23:13:29 +0000 | waleee | (~waleee@h-176-10-144-38.NA.cust.bahnhof.se) |
| 2024-06-26 23:17:09 +0000 | <safinaskar> | i found a wrong statement at https://ghc.gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/doc/users_guide/exts/type_families.html |
| 2024-06-26 23:17:23 +0000 | <safinaskar> | but i will not report bug, because your bug reporting process is too compilected |
| 2024-06-26 23:17:30 +0000 | <safinaskar> | *complicated |
| 2024-06-26 23:18:07 +0000 | <safinaskar> | the statement is: "We call the number of parameters in a type family declaration, the family’s arity, and all applications of a type family must be fully saturated with respect to that arity. This requirement is unlike ordinary type synonyms and it implies that the kind of a type family is not sufficient to determine a family’s arity, and hence in general, also insufficient to determine whether a type family application is well formed." |
| 2024-06-26 23:18:31 +0000 | <safinaskar> | the statement is wrong, because ordinary type synonyms share this property, too (determined by expirement) |
| 2024-06-26 23:19:13 +0000 | gmg | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2024-06-26 23:25:39 +0000 | Garbanzo | (~Garbanzo@2602:304:6eac:dc10::46) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-06-26 23:39:24 +0000 | emmanuelux | (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) |
| 2024-06-26 23:43:11 +0000 | zzz | (~yin@user/zero) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2024-06-26 23:50:04 +0000 | zzz | (~yin@user/zero) |
| 2024-06-26 23:50:24 +0000 | xsarnik | (xsarnik@lounge.fi.muni.cz) (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)) |
| 2024-06-26 23:50:24 +0000 | xstill_ | (xstill@fimu/xstill) (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)) |
| 2024-06-26 23:50:58 +0000 | malte | (~malte@mal.tc) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-06-26 23:51:12 +0000 | malte | (~malte@mal.tc) |
| 2024-06-26 23:51:38 +0000 | rvalue | (~rvalue@user/rvalue) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in) |
| 2024-06-26 23:51:51 +0000 | it_ | (~quassel@v2202212189510211193.supersrv.de) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) |
| 2024-06-26 23:52:00 +0000 | rvalue | (~rvalue@user/rvalue) |
| 2024-06-26 23:52:56 +0000 | xstill_ | (xstill@fimu/xstill) |
| 2024-06-26 23:53:15 +0000 | it_ | (~quassel@v2202212189510211193.supersrv.de) |
| 2024-06-26 23:53:55 +0000 | <davean> | safinaskar: why do you think that is wrong? Pretty sure I've defined classes on type synonyms for example |
| 2024-06-26 23:56:04 +0000 | xsarnik | (xsarnik@lounge.fi.muni.cz) |
| 2024-06-26 23:57:58 +0000 | <dolio> | I don't think you can define classes on synonyms unless it satisfies a similar arity condition to families. |
| 2024-06-26 23:58:24 +0000 | <dolio> | But LiberalTypeSynonyms let you partially apply them as long as they become saturated, and doesn't allow the same thing to happen with families. |
