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2024-01-15 02:21:31 +0000 <c_wraith> sm: what sort of "poor durability" do you mean?
2024-01-15 02:22:29 +0000[Leary](~Leary]@user/Leary/x-0910699)
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2024-01-15 02:44:11 +0000 <haskellbridge> 06<s​m> c_wraith: I mean fragility of the site build/update process due to compiler and deps churn and resource costs
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2024-01-15 02:47:21 +0000 <haskellbridge> 06<s​m> eg, "can't fix a typo on my site because I can't build the generator"
2024-01-15 02:47:41 +0000 <c_wraith> so.. stuff "cabal freeze" fixes?
2024-01-15 02:49:22 +0000 <haskellbridge> 06<s​m> we have more workarounds for it these days but I think it's still a real concern
2024-01-15 02:49:43 +0000chexum_(~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2024-01-15 02:50:47 +0000 <haskellbridge> 06<s​m> leave your site for a few years.. maybe upgrade your os.. now can you still build it ? if you're not a haskell expert ? you get my drift I think
2024-01-15 02:51:05 +0000 <haskellbridge> 06<s​m> (it happened to me)
2024-01-15 02:54:59 +0000 <EvanR> is it that the compiler updates so fast, or chad operator can't stick with 1 ghc version for more than 1 year
2024-01-15 02:56:55 +0000 <jackdk> My hakyll blog is under nix control, so I get the same GHC and library versions whenever I come back to it
2024-01-15 02:57:04 +0000 <yushyin> roughly follows the same line as some devs labelling their haskell projects as unmaintainable and rewriting it into something else after all.
2024-01-15 03:00:39 +0000 <haskellbridge> 06<s​m> obviously sufficiently motivated people can make it work just fine, but it's a relatively costly tool chain to run and maintain, so a drag on adoption
2024-01-15 03:01:40 +0000 <haskellbridge> 06<s​m> and I suppose beyond that the creator moved on, so nobody really pushing it forward
2024-01-15 03:01:52 +0000 <haskellbridge> 06<s​m> in an organized way
2024-01-15 03:02:04 +0000 <haskellbridge> 06<s​m> stop me if I'm out of date here
2024-01-15 03:02:46 +0000 <c_wraith> It's definitely got some weird design things. I don't know how much of that is imported from jekyll and how much is just inexperience when building hakyll
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2024-01-15 08:53:30 +0000 <Btw> just wanted to ask if i map over a array and to create a new array , is that a functor?
2024-01-15 08:53:51 +0000waldo(~waldo@user/waldo)
2024-01-15 08:54:37 +0000 <[exa]> Btw: yeah `fmap` should be the perfect way to do that. May depend on the exact type of the array but for all sensible ones `fmap` should just work
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2024-01-15 11:40:05 +0000z_erica(~z_erica@static-6-218-26-46.ipcom.comunitel.net)
2024-01-15 11:41:14 +0000crazazy`(~user@mobield45d64c57ca8.roaming.utwente.nl) (ERC 5.5.0.29.1 (IRC client for GNU Emacs 29.1))
2024-01-15 11:41:23 +0000 <z_erica> hello! i am currently packaging ghc for a new linux distribution, and im running into snags related to unresolved dependencies im not sure at all how to investigate
2024-01-15 11:41:39 +0000 <z_erica> for the record, two things of note about this distribution are that it uses clang instead of gcc, and musl instead of glibc
2024-01-15 11:42:18 +0000 <z_erica> the most obvious way this problem shows is probably running something like `System.Posix.Env.getEnv "USER"` through ghci
2024-01-15 11:42:32 +0000 <z_erica> in which case it spits out `Could not load 'unixzm2zi8zi1zi0_SystemziPosixziEnv_getEnv_closure', dependency unresolved.`
2024-01-15 11:43:16 +0000 <z_erica> i feel like this has to be some unix symbols not getting linked in at _some_ point, but im unsure where to even begin looking
2024-01-15 11:43:18 +0000 <z_erica> any pointers?
2024-01-15 11:44:09 +0000 <z_erica> and of course if theres a better room for this kind of question please let me know
2024-01-15 11:44:46 +0000causal(~eric@50.35.85.7) (Quit: WeeChat 4.1.1)
2024-01-15 11:51:01 +0000 <danse-nr3> not sure, maybe #ghc
2024-01-15 11:51:10 +0000sroso(~sroso@user/SrOso) (Quit: Leaving :))
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2024-01-15 11:52:48 +0000 <z_erica> ohh ill repost that there just in case, thank you!
2024-01-15 11:53:06 +0000dostoyevsky2(~sck@user/dostoyevsky2) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-01-15 11:57:14 +0000 <danse-nr3> cool
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2024-01-15 12:49:49 +0000danse-nr3(~danse@151.46.154.115)
2024-01-15 12:53:19 +0000dostoyevsky2(~sck@user/dostoyevsky2)
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2024-01-15 13:03:58 +0000Joao003(~Joao003@190.108.99.13)
2024-01-15 13:25:15 +0000 <ncf> data D n = forall a. Eq a => D (Vec n a)
2024-01-15 13:25:20 +0000 <ncf> puzzle: show that the number of elements of D n follows a sequence on the OEIS
2024-01-15 13:25:28 +0000shriekingnoise(~shrieking@186.137.175.87)
2024-01-15 13:25:42 +0000 <ncf> puzzle': do it with Ord
2024-01-15 13:25:47 +0000z_erica(~z_erica@static-6-218-26-46.ipcom.comunitel.net) ()
2024-01-15 13:38:44 +0000waldo(~waldo@user/waldo)
2024-01-15 13:43:16 +0000waldo(~waldo@user/waldo) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2024-01-15 13:47:34 +0000 <int-e> That's misstated... you're treating D (fromList [(),()]) and D (fromList [42,42]) as equivalent.
2024-01-15 13:48:00 +0000 <int-e> (maybe abusing notation; Vec n won't have a fromList)
2024-01-15 13:48:27 +0000 <ncf> they are indistinguishable, aren't they
2024-01-15 13:48:43 +0000 <ncf> a cannot escape its scope!
2024-01-15 13:48:49 +0000 <int-e> but they're not the same
2024-01-15 13:49:05 +0000 <ncf> they're the same enough
2024-01-15 13:49:17 +0000 <ncf> D n is isomorphic to Fin m and i'm asking what m is
2024-01-15 13:49:18 +0000euleritian(~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-01-15 13:49:22 +0000 <[Leary]> They look the same to me.
2024-01-15 13:49:39 +0000euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-046-114-202-125.46.114.pool.telefonica.de)
2024-01-15 13:49:50 +0000 <int-e> I'd much prefer "distinguishable".
2024-01-15 13:51:20 +0000Guest|77(~Guest|77@104.129.199.55)
2024-01-15 13:53:12 +0000 <int-e> > map (\xs -> [x == y | ys@(x:_) <- tails xs, y <- ys]) [[0/0],[1]]
2024-01-15 13:53:13 +0000 <lambdabot> [[False],[True]]
2024-01-15 13:54:23 +0000danse-nr3(~danse@151.46.154.115) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-01-15 13:54:59 +0000 <ncf> > map (\xs -> [x == x | x <- xs]) [[0/0],[1]]
2024-01-15 13:55:01 +0000 <lambdabot> [[False],[True]]
2024-01-15 13:55:07 +0000 <int-e> Anyway I guess you want Bell numbers (I forgot) and Fubini numbers (I never heard of those I think)
2024-01-15 13:55:23 +0000 <ncf> oh yeah, i forgot to add that all instances should be assumed lawful (this one fails reflexivity)
2024-01-15 13:55:24 +0000 <int-e> ncf: I wanted a full characteristic result
2024-01-15 13:55:55 +0000waldo(~waldo@user/waldo)
2024-01-15 13:56:01 +0000 <ncf> yes, Bell and Fubini is correct
2024-01-15 13:56:20 +0000 <ncf> there's an interesting subtlety, imo, when trying to argue this formally
2024-01-15 13:56:24 +0000 <int-e> With lawless instances you'll get 2^(n(n+1)/2) and 3^(n(n+1)/2) or more if you include bottoms.
2024-01-15 13:56:51 +0000 <int-e> err
2024-01-15 13:56:59 +0000 <int-e> n^2 not n(n+1)/2
2024-01-15 13:57:08 +0000 <ncf> namely: a naive approach might be to say "well, Eq is a contravariant functor, so by coyoneda that's Eq (Vec n), so you count the lawful instances of Eq (Vec n)"
2024-01-15 13:57:18 +0000 <int-e> (why did I still assume symmetry, that's so silly)
2024-01-15 13:57:37 +0000 <ncf> but there's supposed to be exactly one instance of Eq (Vec n), so this can't be right
2024-01-15 13:57:41 +0000 <ncf> lawful instance*
2024-01-15 13:58:15 +0000 <ncf> (the reason of course is that this "strict" interpretation of Eq is not functorial; you have to weaken it to "equivalence relation" for it to be functorial)
2024-01-15 13:58:15 +0000 <int-e> hmm is that true?
2024-01-15 13:58:29 +0000 <int-e> you can just compare *some* of the elements
2024-01-15 13:58:49 +0000 <ncf> er sorry i mean Eq (Fin n)
2024-01-15 13:58:56 +0000 <ncf> well one of the laws is extensionality, and that seems like it fails if you randomly choose to identify 0 and 1 in Fin n
2024-01-15 13:59:16 +0000 <int-e> I'm not quite sure what you can do with an arbitrary set partition here
2024-01-15 13:59:16 +0000 <ncf> (namely it fails for the function (> 0) :: Fin n -> Bool)
2024-01-15 13:59:50 +0000 <int-e> eh extensionality fails a lot
2024-01-15 14:00:06 +0000 <int-e> it's more of a spiritual requirement than an actual one
2024-01-15 14:00:15 +0000 <ncf> where does it fail?
2024-01-15 14:00:30 +0000 <int-e> Take Data.Map.Map if you use internals
2024-01-15 14:01:04 +0000 <ncf> right
2024-01-15 14:01:34 +0000 <int-e> It's more prominent with Ord, where you have uses for stuff like Keyed k v = Key k v ordered just by the key.
2024-01-15 14:01:48 +0000danse-nr3(~danse@151.46.154.115)
2024-01-15 14:02:07 +0000 <ncf> so i guess for the subtlety to arise you really have to insist that instances are lawful to the letter
2024-01-15 14:13:10 +0000alycidyne(~kova@user/alycidyne)
2024-01-15 14:13:34 +0000 <alycidyne> Hello, can Haskell's class constraints be considered bounded quantification or not?
2024-01-15 14:23:52 +0000thegeekinside(~thegeekin@189.217.90.224)
2024-01-15 14:25:11 +0000waldo(~waldo@user/waldo) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-01-15 14:26:15 +0000 <danse-nr3> after quickly skimming through en.wikipedia.org/wiki/bounded_quantification i would say yes, although calling it "quantification" seems a bit improper to me, as one cannot choose whether to apply existential or universal quantification with a class constraint
2024-01-15 14:27:45 +0000 <danse-nr3> i understand quantification as something orthogonal to the predicate that goes with it
2024-01-15 14:27:56 +0000 <alycidyne> danse-nr3: yeah of course, but the gist of the idea is there, though AFAIK Haskell doesn't have subtyping per se
2024-01-15 14:28:06 +0000 <alycidyne> Or is that more a question of terminology?
2024-01-15 14:28:47 +0000 <danse-nr3> yeah the gist seems to be there
2024-01-15 14:30:32 +0000 <alycidyne> FWIW subtype polymorphism often is considered only wrt the actual run-time type of the function arguments (i.e. in the context of dynamic dispatch), which might be the major sticking point
2024-01-15 14:35:45 +0000ricardo__(~ricardo@shabang.toppoint.de)
2024-01-15 14:41:13 +0000waldo(~waldo@user/waldo)
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2024-01-15 15:13:41 +0000kuribas(~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be)
2024-01-15 15:14:23 +0000 <kuribas> man, Python is so easy... The loops I need to go to make recursive generators work, as opposed to a lazy list...
2024-01-15 15:15:19 +0000azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut)
2024-01-15 15:16:17 +0000szkl(uid110435@id-110435.uxbridge.irccloud.com)
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2024-01-15 15:19:09 +0000euleritian(~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2024-01-15 15:19:25 +0000alycidyne(~kova@user/alycidyne) (Quit: leaving)
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2024-01-15 15:24:21 +0000 <monochrom> See my https://www.vex.net/~trebla/haskell/cont.xhtml#yield for how to do that in Haskell!
2024-01-15 15:33:35 +0000Guest|77(~Guest|77@104.129.199.55) (Quit: Connection closed)
2024-01-15 15:41:40 +0000 <kuribas> well, I meant sarcastically...
2024-01-15 15:41:53 +0000 <monochrom> haha OK!
2024-01-15 15:44:23 +0000average(uid473595@user/average) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2024-01-15 15:45:05 +0000 <kuribas> but still neat :)
2024-01-15 15:48:35 +0000kuribas(~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be) (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.1))
2024-01-15 15:51:25 +0000justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy)
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2024-01-15 17:21:26 +0000 <carbolymer> @pl \_ -> pure ()
2024-01-15 17:21:26 +0000 <lambdabot> const (pure ())
2024-01-15 17:21:39 +0000everard(~everard@2a10:3781:342:0:f72c:6418:902c:8ff6)
2024-01-15 17:22:17 +0000Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
2024-01-15 17:22:23 +0000 <carbolymer> nah, more characters
2024-01-15 17:23:51 +0000 <nullie> are you golfing?
2024-01-15 17:25:21 +0000 <tromp> how do I output a byte (value 0..255) to stdout?
2024-01-15 17:26:34 +0000 <carbolymer> nullie: always
2024-01-15 17:27:04 +0000 <nullie> carbolymer: is there a good codegolfing service?
2024-01-15 17:27:48 +0000tzh(~tzh@c-71-193-181-0.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
2024-01-15 17:28:24 +0000justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2024-01-15 17:28:34 +0000igemnace(~ian@user/igemnace) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-01-15 17:28:54 +0000 <carbolymer> nullie: I was actually joking, I believe somewhere out there it is ;)
2024-01-15 17:29:16 +0000 <tromp> is there a function with type Word8 -> IO () ?
2024-01-15 17:29:30 +0000 <ncf> BS.putStr . BS.singleton
2024-01-15 17:29:47 +0000 <ncf> where BS = Data.ByteString
2024-01-15 17:29:55 +0000 <geekosaur> the elephant in the room being encodings
2024-01-15 17:32:08 +0000 <EvanR> or hPut
2024-01-15 17:32:15 +0000ft(~ft@p4fc2a1d8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2024-01-15 17:33:14 +0000chomwitt(~chomwitt@2a02:587:7a12:5900:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1)
2024-01-15 17:39:25 +0000Unicorn_Princess(~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542)
2024-01-15 17:40:00 +0000 <tromp> thanks
2024-01-15 17:41:59 +0000eron(~eron@168.196.116.143) (Quit: Client closed)
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2024-01-15 18:06:40 +0000maukesets stdout to latin-1, outputs (chr n)
2024-01-15 18:13:12 +0000 <ncf> not a Word8!
2024-01-15 18:14:11 +0000target_i(~target_i@217.175.14.39)
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2024-01-15 18:44:37 +0000pavonia(~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!)
2024-01-15 18:46:07 +0000ystael(~ystael@user/ystael)
2024-01-15 18:48:10 +0000euleritian(~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2024-01-15 18:49:12 +0000euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-046-114-202-125.46.114.pool.telefonica.de)
2024-01-15 18:52:07 +0000biberu\(~biberu@user/biberu)
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2024-01-15 19:05:43 +0000mqlnv(~tripod@47.154.25.27) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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2024-01-15 19:12:23 +0000 <haskellbridge> 14<m​auke> toEnum . fromEnum
2024-01-15 19:13:17 +0000 <EvanR> how Word8 ruined an entire movie: this dialog from black panther 2 "it's protected with 265 bit encryption"
2024-01-15 19:14:07 +0000 <haskellbridge> 06<s​m> lol oh no! not 265 bit
2024-01-15 19:15:24 +0000 <nullie> Maybe it involved Dutch people. Tweehonderdzesenvijftig
2024-01-15 19:15:31 +0000 <duncan> How else would you protect assets?
2024-01-15 19:16:33 +0000 <c_wraith> tesla coils
2024-01-15 19:16:58 +0000 <darkling> Trained ferrets.
2024-01-15 19:17:08 +0000 <duncan> What is the haskellbridge account bridged.. to?
2024-01-15 19:17:20 +0000 <c_wraith> matrix
2024-01-15 19:17:28 +0000 <c_wraith> I think you can /whois it for more details
2024-01-15 19:26:58 +0000tomith(tomith@user/tomith)
2024-01-15 19:30:15 +0000 <[exa]> EvanR: c'mon that's 9 bits better!!1111
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2024-01-15 22:58:14 +0000AndreiDuma(~textual@95.76.23.32) ()
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2024-01-15 22:58:33 +0000glguy(glguy@libera/staff/glguy) (Killed (neon.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services)))
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2024-01-15 23:56:37 +0000qrpnxz(~qrpnxz@fsf/member/qrpnxz)
2024-01-15 23:59:30 +0000 <qrpnxz> Where can I read about non-source files that GHC handles such as .o (object files), .hi (interface files?), etc., what they are for, and so on?