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2024/01/06

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2024-01-06 03:58:41 +0100igemnace(~ian@user/igemnace)
2024-01-06 04:00:59 +0100 <erina> @help djinn
2024-01-06 04:01:00 +0100 <lambdabot> djinn <type>.
2024-01-06 04:01:00 +0100 <lambdabot> Generates Haskell code from a type.
2024-01-06 04:01:00 +0100 <lambdabot> https://github.com/augustss/djinn
2024-01-06 04:02:18 +0100 <erina> :t (map .)
2024-01-06 04:02:19 +0100 <lambdabot> (a1 -> a2 -> b) -> a1 -> [a2] -> [b]
2024-01-06 04:09:44 +0100 <erina> I don't really get this......
2024-01-06 04:09:50 +0100 <erina> :t map (.)
2024-01-06 04:09:51 +0100 <lambdabot> [b -> c] -> [(a -> b) -> a -> c]
2024-01-06 04:09:56 +0100 <erina> :t (.) map
2024-01-06 04:09:57 +0100 <lambdabot> (a1 -> a2 -> b) -> a1 -> [a2] -> [b]
2024-01-06 04:10:21 +0100 <erina> :t flip (map .)
2024-01-06 04:10:22 +0100 <lambdabot> a1 -> (a1 -> a2 -> b) -> [a2] -> [b]
2024-01-06 04:13:31 +0100 <erina> Oh, I got it.
2024-01-06 04:13:41 +0100 <erina> I got the type of the (.) operator wrong.
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2024-01-06 04:20:19 +0100FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Killed (NickServ (Forcing logout FinnElija -> finn_elija)))
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2024-01-06 04:20:22 +0100incertia_(~incertia@209.122.137.252)
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2024-01-06 04:28:46 +0100Axma61144(~Axman6@user/axman6)
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2024-01-06 04:37:05 +0100 <Axma61144> Hello hello, can someone on matrix say some things so I can test a thing?
2024-01-06 04:38:00 +0100Axma61144Bynbo7
2024-01-06 04:39:02 +0100esph(~weechat@user/esph)
2024-01-06 04:42:55 +0100ChaiTRex(~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2024-01-06 04:44:15 +0100td_(~td@i53870917.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-01-06 04:44:51 +0100 <Clint> is the bridge working?
2024-01-06 04:46:11 +0100td_(~td@i5387093B.versanet.de)
2024-01-06 04:46:57 +0100ChaiTRex(~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex)
2024-01-06 04:49:54 +0100 <haskellbridge> 06<s​m> what things ?
2024-01-06 04:50:15 +0100 <Bynbo7> As far as I know it is...
2024-01-06 04:50:42 +0100 <Bynbo7> Issues I've been having with strange characters messing up my display
2024-01-06 04:51:10 +0100 <Bynbo7> Looks like it's still happening, thanks sm
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2024-01-06 04:57:43 +0100Axma55317Axman61
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2024-01-06 05:05:33 +0100incertia_(~incertia@209.122.137.252)
2024-01-06 05:06:15 +0100Lycurgusfinds matrix cognitively dissonant with hs
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2024-01-06 05:26:26 +0100 <glguy> Bynbo7: does it only work will all of your layers? Have you tried without tmux or any of the other pieces?
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2024-01-06 08:34:34 +0100takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be)
2024-01-06 08:40:28 +0100 <Franciman> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0167642321000022 glad to see functional languages to be quite energy efficient
2024-01-06 08:42:28 +0100 <Franciman> i wonder why ocaml is consistently more efficient than haskell
2024-01-06 08:42:32 +0100 <Franciman> more energy efficient*
2024-01-06 08:42:35 +0100 <Franciman> except for RAM
2024-01-06 08:43:04 +0100 <Franciman> maybe it's because they use side effects in a freer way
2024-01-06 08:43:48 +0100 <Franciman> i would expect the opposite, due to laziness avoiding useless recomputations
2024-01-06 08:43:56 +0100 <Franciman> computations*
2024-01-06 08:45:29 +0100 <int-e> but you can expect that there are few repeated computations in those benchmarks, so laziness is, for the most part, just bookkeeping overhead
2024-01-06 08:46:22 +0100gmg(~user@user/gehmehgeh)
2024-01-06 08:47:27 +0100 <Franciman> hmm ok, makes sense
2024-01-06 08:47:30 +0100 <Franciman> python is a disaster lol
2024-01-06 08:49:10 +0100 <int-e> I assume they used the standard CPython which is a bytecode interpreter which carries a lot of overhead.
2024-01-06 08:49:53 +0100TMA(tma@twin.jikos.cz)
2024-01-06 08:53:05 +0100alp_(~alp@2001:861:e3d6:8f80:45c3:be55:befe:ab57)
2024-01-06 08:54:02 +0100 <Franciman> int-e: no i read that for each language they took the state of the art implementations and compared the results
2024-01-06 08:54:54 +0100peterbecich(~Thunderbi@047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-01-06 08:55:11 +0100 <Franciman> i mean, they tried different compilers/vms
2024-01-06 08:56:18 +0100 <Franciman> but they don't seem to explicitly say which ones are considered. So maybe they think only cpython is state of the art :P
2024-01-06 08:57:57 +0100 <int-e> Well, that is the standard implementation of Python. But it would be interesting to see how, say, PyPy would compare.
2024-01-06 09:00:13 +0100 <int-e> Anyway, I don't think that the idea that lazy evaluation is benefitial for energy consumption will work out in practice... if you compare tuned implementations of the same algorithms in different languages which is what they're doing.
2024-01-06 09:00:57 +0100mfaathirarsa(~Thunderbi@2001:448a:2010:476e:9181:8cb5:3456:b667)
2024-01-06 09:01:07 +0100 <Franciman> so the results just say that ocaml's runtime is more energy efficient than haskell's one
2024-01-06 09:01:10 +0100 <Franciman> full stop
2024-01-06 09:01:41 +0100 <int-e> (You can do on-demand evaluation in other languages as well, or, more likely, compute just the values that you need, exactly once. Lazy evaluation will benefit you when you write naive implementations that express a lot of values that you'll never need.)
2024-01-06 09:03:42 +0100 <int-e> I *love* lazy evaluation precisely because of this... the ability to write seemingly stupid code that is still executed *reasonably* efficiently. But I fully expect to pay a 2x factor in performance compared to more elaborate code that embeds more knowledge of which values are needed and which aren't.
2024-01-06 09:03:56 +0100eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:4930:80a7:d767:a681) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-01-06 09:03:57 +0100 <int-e> Quite possibly in a non-functional language.
2024-01-06 09:09:49 +0100peterbecich(~Thunderbi@047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com)
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2024-01-06 09:26:55 +0100petrichortries to read the article, runs headlong ino
2024-01-06 09:27:11 +0100 <petrichor> *into a paywall
2024-01-06 09:27:30 +0100 <petrichor> ffs elsevier
2024-01-06 09:29:27 +0100 <Fansly> Time to sail the seas
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2024-01-06 13:57:41 +0100 <alycidyne> Hello, I've read about HOUSE, and am now thinking about more hacking in Haskell. Are there any recommended resources or communities for this?
2024-01-06 13:57:41 +0100irrgit(~irrgit@146.70.27.218) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2024-01-06 13:59:10 +0100 <[exa]> (what's HOUSE?)
2024-01-06 13:59:34 +0100 <[exa]> (I assume some cool acronym but never saw it as such)
2024-01-06 14:03:20 +0100 <probie> [exa]: An experiment in writing an operating system in Haskell from about 20 years ago. https://programatica.cs.pdx.edu/House/
2024-01-06 14:03:45 +0100ubert(~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf26831728578d2c0a0071cf.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2024-01-06 14:04:50 +0100 <alycidyne> The paper is actually really fascinating, it's equal parts Haskell and system architecture (never thought I'd see ISA and Haskell in the same page)
2024-01-06 14:05:47 +0100Fansly(~Fansly@103.3.220.245) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-01-06 14:06:16 +0100 <[exa]> ah this, cool
2024-01-06 14:06:30 +0100Fansly(~Fansly@2001:448a:2010:476e:5d30:627d:73c3:a75f)
2024-01-06 14:11:19 +0100fendor(~fendor@2a02:8388:1605:d100:267b:1353:13d7:4f0c) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2024-01-06 14:17:32 +0100 <probie> HaLVM was also somewhat cool, although unikernels in general never seemed to gain much traction.
2024-01-06 14:18:25 +0100jmdaemon(~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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2024-01-06 14:26:18 +0100 <alycidyne> probie: On an aside note, what I'm more intrigued is why nobody speaks about single-level store anymore. Apart from IBM i, no plans at all.
2024-01-06 14:27:15 +0100danza(~danza@151.47.139.156)
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2024-01-06 14:36:12 +0100mixfix41(~plaguedog@user/mixfix41) (Quit: quittin' ..)
2024-01-06 14:37:03 +0100 <erina> @hoogle (a->Bool) -> [a] -> [Int}
2024-01-06 14:37:04 +0100 <lambdabot> Data.List findIndices :: (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> [Int]
2024-01-06 14:37:04 +0100 <lambdabot> GHC.OldList findIndices :: (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> [Int]
2024-01-06 14:37:04 +0100 <lambdabot> BasePrelude findIndices :: () => (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> [Int]
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2024-01-06 14:53:50 +0100 <erina> @pl \x y -> map (x,) (elemIndices '.' y)
2024-01-06 14:53:51 +0100 <lambdabot> (line 1, column 15):
2024-01-06 14:53:51 +0100 <lambdabot> unexpected ","
2024-01-06 14:53:51 +0100 <lambdabot> expecting letter or digit, variable, "(", operator or ")"
2024-01-06 14:54:20 +0100 <erina> :t \x y -> map (x,) (elemIndices '.' y)
2024-01-06 14:54:21 +0100 <lambdabot> t -> [Char] -> [(t, Int)]
2024-01-06 14:55:01 +0100 <probie> erina: what are you trying to do?
2024-01-06 14:55:45 +0100 <erina> I'm converting a [[Char]] to a list of indices containing '#' (the '.' is a mistake, but should look fine in this case)
2024-01-06 14:57:53 +0100 <erina> I'm currently using concat $ zipWith (\x y -> map (x,) (elemIndices '.' y)) [0..] ls, which is ...... really ugly
2024-01-06 14:57:58 +0100son0p(~ff@186.114.35.184) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-01-06 14:58:57 +0100 <haskellbridge> 15<J​ade> I'm looking at this sorting network https://bertdobbelaere.github.io/sorting_networks.html#N4L5D3 and it looks like you'd be able to find the minimum element using 5-comparisons (as sorting using 5 comparisons would trivially yield the minimum element) but I'm not sure how to do it standalone
2024-01-06 14:59:33 +0100 <haskellbridge> 15<J​ade> My current approach needs six comparisons, but I can't figure out what sequence of five comparisons would yield me the minimum element
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2024-01-06 16:19:34 +0100Guestintheweeb(~Guestinth@216.126.35.198)
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2024-01-06 16:47:17 +0100Guestintheweeb(~Guestinth@216.126.35.198) ()
2024-01-06 16:47:55 +0100merrinx(~user@2001:4640:b7b9:0:12da:fc10:e9ef:c6f7)
2024-01-06 16:52:57 +0100 <erina> @pl \a b c -> 1000000 * f a b c
2024-01-06 16:52:58 +0100 <lambdabot> (((1000000 *) .) .) . f
2024-01-06 16:56:21 +0100turlando(~turlando@user/turlando) ()
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2024-01-06 17:32:21 +0100 <c_wraith> Jade: Still around? You only need 3 comparisons. min4 a b c d = min (min a b) (min c d)
2024-01-06 17:33:36 +0100 <c_wraith> If you want to inline the calls to min it's a mess, but each one is only a single comparison.
2024-01-06 17:33:41 +0100 <haskellbridge> 15<J​ade> the problem is that I can't compare values, but I need to know which of those parameters is the smallesz
2024-01-06 17:33:46 +0100 <haskellbridge> 15<J​ade> the problem is that I can't compare values, but I need to know which of those parameters is the smallest
2024-01-06 17:34:16 +0100 <c_wraith> that sounds more like a philosophical problem....
2024-01-06 17:34:20 +0100 <haskellbridge> 15<J​ade> that gives me the smallest value, but I want to know which one is the smallest, the value doesn't matter
2024-01-06 17:35:32 +0100 <c_wraith> I'm still trying to understand how to define "smallest" if you can't compare values.
2024-01-06 17:35:48 +0100 <haskellbridge> 15<J​ade> The current approach looks like this https://paste.tomsmeding.com/lCfWdDaX
2024-01-06 17:36:03 +0100 <haskellbridge> 15<J​ade> you can, but I want to know which one is the smallest, not what the smallest value is
2024-01-06 17:36:22 +0100waldo(~waldo@user/waldo)
2024-01-06 17:36:49 +0100 <duncan> this function does not pass the 'so what' test
2024-01-06 17:39:31 +0100 <c_wraith> So you just write a trivial variant on min. min' (a, b) (c, d) | a < c = (a, b) | otherwise = (c, d)
2024-01-06 17:40:17 +0100 <c_wraith> Or if you really want, return all 4
2024-01-06 17:40:25 +0100 <c_wraith> Then you haven't lost anything
2024-01-06 17:40:31 +0100 <haskellbridge> 15<J​ade> wait, yeah now I get what you mean
2024-01-06 17:40:38 +0100 <haskellbridge> 15<J​ade> that makes so much more sense, I feel stupid
2024-01-06 17:44:11 +0100 <c_wraith> Eh. You shouldn't feel stupid. It takes a long time to learn all the ways to turn a problem sideways to see if it works better from that angle.
2024-01-06 17:44:19 +0100econo_(uid147250@id-147250.tinside.irccloud.com)
2024-01-06 17:45:00 +0100 <haskellbridge> 15<J​ade> hm, but I need to recursively call this function, and depending on which parameter was the smallest, I need to pass that lists tail and the full list for the others
2024-01-06 17:48:06 +0100tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2024-01-06 17:50:23 +0100son0p(~ff@186.114.35.184)
2024-01-06 17:50:25 +0100 <c_wraith> yeah, so.. if you have something more like... helper (a, as) (b, bs) | a < b = ((a, as), (b, bs)) | otherwise = ((b, bs), (a,as))
2024-01-06 17:50:42 +0100 <c_wraith> you call it with the head and tail of each list
2024-01-06 17:50:54 +0100 <c_wraith> it compares only the heads
2024-01-06 17:51:37 +0100 <c_wraith> and gives you back (head, tail) pairs ordered by the heads. Then you still have all four pieces of information, but you know which is necessary where
2024-01-06 17:52:19 +0100ubert(~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf26831728578d2c0a0071cf.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2024-01-06 17:52:23 +0100ubert1(~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf26838a28d1917258673ded.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2024-01-06 17:52:37 +0100 <c_wraith> The main thing to do is ignore the parameters after they've been used once. Use the outputs of that intead
2024-01-06 17:53:00 +0100 <haskellbridge> 15<J​ade> rightg
2024-01-06 17:53:01 +0100 <haskellbridge> 15<J​ade> right
2024-01-06 17:54:40 +0100ubert1ubert
2024-01-06 17:59:00 +0100esph(~weechat@user/esph) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-01-06 18:00:21 +0100 <haskellbridge> 15<J​ade> ah damnit
2024-01-06 18:00:24 +0100esph(~weechat@user/esph)
2024-01-06 18:00:43 +0100 <haskellbridge> 15<J​ade> this works, but it breaks stability, because the position of the list in the recursive call is important
2024-01-06 18:00:56 +0100 <haskellbridge> 15<J​ade> and that isn't given this way
2024-01-06 18:05:00 +0100coot(~coot@89-69-206-216.dynamic.chello.pl)
2024-01-06 18:06:47 +0100 <c_wraith> Hmm, it's sure not. You could probably recover it, but the overhead is starting to get annoying
2024-01-06 18:10:06 +0100 <c_wraith> the one sure way to do it, I suppose, is the most annoying. You just move the whole tree into your code as a bunch of nested cases
2024-01-06 18:10:30 +0100 <haskellbridge> 15<J​ade> I think that is what I had before with optimizations
2024-01-06 18:10:42 +0100 <c_wraith> well.. you weren't nesting
2024-01-06 18:10:51 +0100 <haskellbridge> 15<J​ade> *but* it has six comparisons, but it should be possible to reduce it to five
2024-01-06 18:10:59 +0100 <haskellbridge> 15<J​ade> right, yeah
2024-01-06 18:11:49 +0100 <c_wraith> the nesting depth should be three. And that's the part that matters. Not the number of different conditions in different branches
2024-01-06 18:16:07 +0100tzh(~tzh@c-71-193-181-0.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
2024-01-06 18:19:02 +0100azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut)
2024-01-06 18:21:19 +0100waldo(~waldo@user/waldo) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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2024-01-06 18:27:53 +0100 <c_wraith> Jade: This isn't the actual code you need, but this is the structure of it. https://paste.tomsmeding.com/tK15HPHc
2024-01-06 18:28:27 +0100 <c_wraith> Jade: note that reaching each branch requires 3 comparison, and in that branch you know which was the minimum (or equal, to preserve stability)
2024-01-06 18:28:37 +0100 <haskellbridge> 15<J​ade> thank you
2024-01-06 18:29:06 +0100rvalue(~rvalue@user/rvalue) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-01-06 18:29:06 +0100 <c_wraith> and yes, I tested it with all permutations of [1,2,3,4] and got 1 as the result each time :)
2024-01-06 18:34:49 +0100rvalue(~rvalue@user/rvalue)
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2024-01-06 18:54:56 +0100 <EvanR> such brute force
2024-01-06 18:58:16 +0100 <c_wraith> honestly, template haskell should be used to write that kind of code. It's painful.
2024-01-06 18:59:11 +0100 <ephemient> going back to the original, wouldn't this be good enough? https://paste.tomsmeding.com/AZfwpd81
2024-01-06 19:00:34 +0100 <c_wraith> I like it.
2024-01-06 19:01:55 +0100 <c_wraith> Though it pays laziness overhead on top of what the giant tree does. (thunks are allocated for all the unused branches, which isn't totally free.) I wouldn't usually care about that, but in the specific case of writing what's supposed to be an optimized sort...
2024-01-06 19:02:10 +0100 <monochrom> I think you missed "a :" "b :" etc but heh.
2024-01-06 19:02:42 +0100vglfr(~vglfr@157.pool85-48-184.static.orange.es)
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2024-01-06 19:08:48 +0100 <c_wraith> also, fwiw in the context of the original I'm seeing some use of (:|), which suggests Data.List.NonEmpty. Be careful using it in performance-oriented code. There are use patterns where it can destroy sharing and cause a lot of extra allocation.
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2024-01-06 19:13:21 +0100 <EvanR> smh, shoulda used newtype over basic list to track if it's nonempty
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2024-01-06 20:19:40 +0100Ashkan(~Ashkan@147.161.173.72)
2024-01-06 20:20:51 +0100 <Ashkan> Hey guys
2024-01-06 20:20:51 +0100 <Ashkan> How do I copy a haskell value (possible large vector, a vertex buffer to be exact) into a `Ptr ()` I have ?
2024-01-06 20:20:52 +0100 <Ashkan> I've found `poke` but I'm not sure
2024-01-06 20:23:39 +0100esph(~weechat@user/esph) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2024-01-06 20:30:08 +0100 <ncf> castPtr, poke
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2024-01-06 20:38:17 +0100 <Ashkan> ncf tnx
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2024-01-06 23:37:21 +0100[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
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