| 2023-10-17 00:04:50 +0200 | <jumper> | mauke: you would be passing the address of gets function into puts in that case which wasn't what I ment. gets in this case could be a function which reads input and saves it into a buffer and returns a pointer to that buffer. Since in C, strings are simply arrays closed of with NULL bytes, addresses are used to point to said char array. |
| 2023-10-17 00:05:27 +0200 | Vajb | (~Vajb@207.61.167.122) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-10-17 00:05:31 +0200 | <moni_> | "learning Haskell from the Haskell Report" reminds me of when I was 19 and decided I would learn programming fundamentals by going through The Art Of Computer Programming |
| 2023-10-17 00:05:44 +0200 | <jumper> | moni_: hardcore |
| 2023-10-17 00:06:28 +0200 | <mauke> | jumper: yes, that's exactly what I meant |
| 2023-10-17 00:06:30 +0200 | <EvanR> | structure and interpretation of computer programming, though it's is not very haskell |
| 2023-10-17 00:06:30 +0200 | <moni_> | A little too hardcore lmao, I spent a weekend doing nothing but the problems on chapter 1 and went "yeah no" lmao |
| 2023-10-17 00:06:45 +0200 | <monochrom> | I think I did learn the "docker run" command from the docker-run CLI reference. :) |
| 2023-10-17 00:06:50 +0200 | <EvanR> | er, computer programs |
| 2023-10-17 00:07:41 +0200 | <mauke> | jumper: puts(gets) is wrong (a type error) because you're passing the gets operation itself (or in the case of C: a pointer to the function), not the result of reading input |
| 2023-10-17 00:07:55 +0200 | <monochrom> | "structure and interpretation of computer programming" would be social commentary on programmer behavious. >:) |
| 2023-10-17 00:08:01 +0200 | <jumper> | mauke: nested function calls in C are evaluated first before their return values are passed down as args to the next function |
| 2023-10-17 00:08:19 +0200 | <monochrom> | Or, unstructure and misinterpretation >:) |
| 2023-10-17 00:08:31 +0200 | <mauke> | I like turtles |
| 2023-10-17 00:08:31 +0200 | <EvanR> | gets by itself evaluates to a pointer, it doesn't execute any I/O |
| 2023-10-17 00:08:44 +0200 | gehmehgeh | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2023-10-17 00:08:55 +0200 | <EvanR> | luckily it's a type error |
| 2023-10-17 00:09:00 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-046-114-207-017.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2023-10-17 00:09:04 +0200 | <monochrom> | Oh hey we used to call our 3rd-year-level computability-and-complexity course "effective and efficient computing". |
| 2023-10-17 00:09:04 +0200 | <EvanR> | in puts(gets) |
| 2023-10-17 00:09:46 +0200 | <mauke> | (except for the one time when gcc somehow didn't type-check I/O functions and you could do stuff like fgetc(), which would crash at runtime) |
| 2023-10-17 00:09:54 +0200 | <monochrom> | But since it delivers bad news such as "this one is not computable, that one we can't do better than exp time yet", I think of it as "ineffective and inefficient computing". |
| 2023-10-17 00:10:28 +0200 | <EvanR> | computer science the science of what you can't do |
| 2023-10-17 00:10:35 +0200 | <monochrom> | Then I told that to a prof, and he said "my brother (another prof elsewhere) says defective and defficient computing" >:D |
| 2023-10-17 00:11:33 +0200 | <EvanR> | the worst part is when the manager asks you to do something that is technically undecidable, you still can't use that as an excuse |
| 2023-10-17 00:11:58 +0200 | <EvanR> | someone else will silently change the question just in time to not get fired |
| 2023-10-17 00:12:06 +0200 | <jumper> | EvanR: when I pass a function, inside a function, if I use said function inside the function, could it be analogically said though that a Function pointer was passed down as an argument? |
| 2023-10-17 00:12:56 +0200 | <EvanR> | ideally you put the function pointer in the actual type signature making that question redundant |
| 2023-10-17 00:13:14 +0200 | <EvanR> | and helping the compiler help you do it right |
| 2023-10-17 00:13:23 +0200 | <monochrom> | sin(arccos(x)) does not pass function pointers. In both C and Haskell. |
| 2023-10-17 00:13:50 +0200 | <mauke> | jumper: in Haskell? sort of, but the "pointerness" is not apparent anywhere. since you can't do pointery things, it doesn't really make sense to talk about pointers |
| 2023-10-17 00:13:51 +0200 | gooba | (~gooba@90-231-13-185-no3430.tbcn.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-10-17 00:13:59 +0200 | <mauke> | also, this applies to all arguments, not just functions |
| 2023-10-17 00:14:01 +0200 | <monochrom> | But "getLine :: IO String" is genuinely something new that has no analog in C or C++. |
| 2023-10-17 00:14:26 +0200 | <monochrom> | But read on with the Haskell Report and take it seriously. |
| 2023-10-17 00:14:35 +0200 | <EvanR> | regardless, the types don't match so the computer refuses to go |
| 2023-10-17 00:14:39 +0200 | <mauke> | also, C only has "static" functions (defined at the top level) |
| 2023-10-17 00:14:52 +0200 | <mauke> | in Haskell you can dynamically create functions at runtime |
| 2023-10-17 00:14:53 +0200 | gooba | (~gooba@90-231-13-185-no3430.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 2023-10-17 00:15:03 +0200 | <mauke> | (because closures) |
| 2023-10-17 00:15:40 +0200 | <monochrom> | There is reading the source material and actually accept it. Then there is reading the source material but misinterpret it to fit your echo chamber. |
| 2023-10-17 00:15:49 +0200 | <Inst> | ^^^ |
| 2023-10-17 00:16:19 +0200 | <Inst> | Part of the big deal of Haskell is that its concept of programming is extremely abstract and very divorced from the actual reality of the hardware. |
| 2023-10-17 00:16:47 +0200 | <EvanR> | wait that's also C |
| 2023-10-17 00:16:54 +0200 | <EvanR> | but people think it's portable assembly language |
| 2023-10-17 00:16:54 +0200 | <mauke> | yeah, I was about to say |
| 2023-10-17 00:17:03 +0200 | <Inst> | foothill vs everest? |
| 2023-10-17 00:17:40 +0200 | <monochrom> | https://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=3212479 |
| 2023-10-17 00:18:03 +0200 | <monochrom> | ("C Is Not a Low-level Language" "Your computer is not a fast PDP-11") |
| 2023-10-17 00:18:25 +0200 | <jumper> | mauke: you can do it in assembler though, although cumbersome |
| 2023-10-17 00:18:37 +0200 | <Inst> | Yet, somehow, through work by both the compiler team and work by Haskell programmers, some, and I emphasize some, algorithms in Haskell can achieve 70-80% C. |
| 2023-10-17 00:19:04 +0200 | <mauke> | jumper: assembler can't do functions at all |
| 2023-10-17 00:19:10 +0200 | <jumper> | yes it can |
| 2023-10-17 00:19:27 +0200 | <mauke> | this is a map-vs-territory thing |
| 2023-10-17 00:19:39 +0200 | <EvanR> | or 110% C, relativity be damned |
| 2023-10-17 00:19:39 +0200 | <mauke> | assembler doesn't have expressions |
| 2023-10-17 00:19:42 +0200 | <jumper> | mauke: how do we define a function here? |
| 2023-10-17 00:19:48 +0200 | <Inst> | You're thinking very low-level, my opinion is to let you try this on your own, with some help if you need it, until you either get through the report and have a partial understanding, or you give up and try easier resources. |
| 2023-10-17 00:20:01 +0200 | <Inst> | Either way, to make the most use of learning Haskell, you need to learn a functional paradigm of thinking. |
| 2023-10-17 00:20:05 +0200 | monochrom | ruins the conversation with "what about atlases and charts? domains and realms?" >:) |
| 2023-10-17 00:20:41 +0200 | <mauke> | jumper: something that looks vaguely like f(x) from math |
| 2023-10-17 00:21:20 +0200 | <jumper> | mauke: so you want syntax sugar? Macros then |
| 2023-10-17 00:21:22 +0200 | <mauke> | you can emulate it in asm using the "subroutine" design pattern |
| 2023-10-17 00:21:39 +0200 | <monochrom> | hahahahah |
| 2023-10-17 00:21:43 +0200 | <mauke> | but then you can emulate closures in C by manually combining function pointers and environments in a data structure |
| 2023-10-17 00:22:13 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-046-114-207-017.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-10-17 00:22:20 +0200 | <mauke> | it's not something the language provides directly |
| 2023-10-17 00:22:31 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2023-10-17 00:22:44 +0200 | <jumper> | mauke: ofc not, it's assembler, but you have total freedom to construct anything you can think of |
| 2023-10-17 00:22:51 +0200 | <monochrom> | I once played with a certain function from libffi that helps with emulating currying and closures etc in C. :) |
| 2023-10-17 00:23:26 +0200 | <monochrom> | It was more tedious than just calling Haskell. :) |
| 2023-10-17 00:23:29 +0200 | <mauke> | monochrom: I wrote a toy version for x86 :-) |
| 2023-10-17 00:24:08 +0200 | <mauke> | yay for memcpy'ing runtime generated machine code |
| 2023-10-17 00:24:25 +0200 | <monochrom> | Uh that's hardcore :) |
| 2023-10-17 00:25:17 +0200 | <mauke> | I think I got something like eprintf = bind(fprintf, 4, stderr); eprintf("hello\n"); to work |
| 2023-10-17 00:25:27 +0200 | <mauke> | with a lot more type casts |
| 2023-10-17 00:25:44 +0200 | <Inst> | BTW, I'm not wrong if I say that Haskell has a 5-stage compiler? |
| 2023-10-17 00:26:17 +0200 | <mauke> | how are we counting stages? intermediate languages/representations? |
| 2023-10-17 00:26:21 +0200 | <Inst> | yeah |
| 2023-10-17 00:26:23 +0200 | <monochrom> | I don't know. Where do I find this 5-stage compiler? |
| 2023-10-17 00:26:32 +0200 | <Inst> | Well, GHC to be more specific? |
| 2023-10-17 00:26:43 +0200 | <monochrom> | And which are the 5 stages? |
| 2023-10-17 00:27:00 +0200 | <dostoyevsky2> | Inst: Don't gcc/llvm usually only use 3 stages? I wonder what the other stages are about |
| 2023-10-17 00:27:05 +0200 | <Inst> | Haskell -> Haskell Core -> STG -> Cmm -> Machine Code? |
| 2023-10-17 00:27:08 +0200 | <ghoulguy> | denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance |
| 2023-10-17 00:27:19 +0200 | <monochrom> | That's 4 ->'s. |
| 2023-10-17 00:27:30 +0200 | <Inst> | 4 stage, then? |
| 2023-10-17 00:27:34 +0200 | <monochrom> | Then yes. |
| 2023-10-17 00:27:52 +0200 | <mauke> | CPP -> ... -> asm -> machine code |
| 2023-10-17 00:27:55 +0200 | srk | (~sorki@user/srk) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2023-10-17 00:28:02 +0200 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) |
| 2023-10-17 00:28:26 +0200 | <monochrom> | I'm not doubting you. Along the same line, if someone asks "is it true that vector spaces have 7 axioms?", I will also ask them to list their axioms. |
| 2023-10-17 00:28:43 +0200 | <Inst> | Because you prize rigor in thought? |
| 2023-10-17 00:28:51 +0200 | <monochrom> | Because different people cut and count these things in different ways. |
| 2023-10-17 00:28:59 +0200 | <Inst> | Ah. :) |
| 2023-10-17 00:29:09 +0200 | <mauke> | is it true that there are 5 continents? |
| 2023-10-17 00:29:23 +0200 | <dostoyevsky2> | Inst: I guess you have to write HPP as the 5th stage |
| 2023-10-17 00:29:44 +0200 | <ghoulguy> | https://www.scs.stanford.edu/11au-cs240h/notes/ghc.html if you want to see more of the stages |
| 2023-10-17 00:31:10 +0200 | <dostoyevsky2> | mauke: what are your top 7 continents in no particular order? |
| 2023-10-17 00:31:10 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-10-17 00:31:48 +0200 | <monochrom> | :) |
| 2023-10-17 00:31:48 +0200 | srk | (~sorki@user/srk) |
| 2023-10-17 00:32:01 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2023-10-17 00:32:06 +0200 | <Inst> | mauke: 5 continents would go, greenland, antarctica, americas, afro-eurasia, australia? |
| 2023-10-17 00:32:17 +0200 | <monochrom> | Clearly, Greenland should be one of the continents. >:) |
| 2023-10-17 00:32:36 +0200 | <c_wraith> | and pluto should be a planet. :P |
| 2023-10-17 00:32:43 +0200 | <monochrom> | And Tasmania. |
| 2023-10-17 00:33:55 +0200 | <EvanR> | any number of additional stages induced by template haskell |
| 2023-10-17 00:34:07 +0200 | bitdex | (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) |
| 2023-10-17 00:35:52 +0200 | <c_wraith> | Is TH limited to one "stage" per splice? |
| 2023-10-17 00:36:27 +0200 | <mauke> | dostoyevsky2: pangea, polygondwanaland, mu |
| 2023-10-17 00:37:18 +0200 | nate2 | (~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 2023-10-17 00:42:01 +0200 | nate2 | (~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
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| 2023-10-17 01:53:11 +0200 | Friendship | (~Friendshi@user/Friendship) |
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| 2023-10-17 02:00:28 +0200 | <jrm> | Maybe Madagascar? "[It] split from Africa during the Early Jurassic, around 180 million years ago, and split from the Indian subcontinent around 90 million years ago." |
| 2023-10-17 02:01:00 +0200 | <monochrom> | Pretty small. But you can bribe me to agree. :) |
| 2023-10-17 02:01:21 +0200 | <geekosaur> | you want a small ex-continent? new zealand |
| 2023-10-17 02:02:17 +0200 | <monochrom> | Isle of Man. |
| 2023-10-17 02:02:18 +0200 | monochrom | ducks |
| 2023-10-17 02:06:34 +0200 | <jrm> | Only if the continent flag can keep that spiny leg wheel design. |
| 2023-10-17 02:08:41 +0200 | Vajb | (~Vajb@207.61.167.122) |
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| 2023-10-17 03:10:42 +0200 | Vajb | (~Vajb@207.61.167.122) |
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| 2023-10-17 03:17:07 +0200 | aforemny | (~aforemny@i59F516EC.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2023-10-17 03:17:58 +0200 | gabriel_sevecek | (~gabriel@188-167-229-200.dynamic.chello.sk) |
| 2023-10-17 03:19:37 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <geekosaur> test 💡 |
| 2023-10-17 03:20:49 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <geekosaur> huh. the bridge translates emojis |
| 2023-10-17 03:22:58 +0200 | <jrm> | Last night I was curious why a simple recursive function to calculate the sum of a Fibonacci sequence took ~9 times longer than the equivalent function in C. Here is a very similar function to calculate factorials and it returns with no noticeable delay for many more calculations. https://paste.tomsmeding.com/NSFPBoD1 |
| 2023-10-17 03:24:39 +0200 | <geekosaur> | it's fewer calculations because it's a linear chain; fib requires a large tree |
| 2023-10-17 03:25:30 +0200 | <geekosaur> | compare `x * fac (x - 1)` to `fib (x - 1) + fib (x - 2)` |
| 2023-10-17 03:25:31 +0200 | <jrm> | ...because it has two recursive calls, I gather. |
| 2023-10-17 03:25:35 +0200 | <geekosaur> | yes |
| 2023-10-17 03:25:39 +0200 | <dolio> | Naive fib is O(fib(n)) |
| 2023-10-17 03:25:44 +0200 | <geekosaur> | and every one of those has two calls, etc. |
| 2023-10-17 03:26:10 +0200 | <dolio> | (Which is exponential.) |
| 2023-10-17 03:26:31 +0200 | <Pseudonym> | https://paste.tomsmeding.com/xUpxoY7T |
| 2023-10-17 03:26:43 +0200 | Inst | (~Inst@120.244.192.250) |
| 2023-10-17 03:26:45 +0200 | <Pseudonym> | Try that as a head-to-head with yours, using :set +s |
| 2023-10-17 03:29:25 +0200 | aforemny | (~aforemny@i59F516EC.versanet.de) |
| 2023-10-17 03:29:34 +0200 | <Pseudonym> | Fun fact: Naive factorial is not O(n), either, because big integer multiplication is not O(1). |
| 2023-10-17 03:30:03 +0200 | <jrm> | I think you need s/fac/fac'/ after the where, but it is indeed about 2x faster. |
| 2023-10-17 03:30:17 +0200 | <Pseudonym> | Ah yes. I only proved it correct, I didn't run it. |
| 2023-10-17 03:30:35 +0200 | <jrm> | fac 10000: (0.26 secs, 103,220,624 bytes) facp 10000: (0.12 secs, 30,103,976 bytes) |
| 2023-10-17 03:30:38 +0200 | Vajb | (~Vajb@207.61.167.122) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-10-17 03:30:48 +0200 | <geekosaur> | have to change it in 3 places in fact |
| 2023-10-17 03:31:00 +0200 | <Pseudonym> | It's more efficient to multiply similarly-sized integers together than differently-sized integers. |
| 2023-10-17 03:33:55 +0200 | aforemny | (~aforemny@i59F516EC.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
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| 2023-10-17 03:41:27 +0200 | <monochrom> | My students don't realize why "foo n = foo (n-1) + foo(n-1)" is exponential in n, until I remind them it's even worse than "fib n = fib (n-1) + fib (n-2)". :) |
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| 2023-10-17 04:09:43 +0200 | yj2 | (echo@user/yjj3) |
| 2023-10-17 04:10:17 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net) |
| 2023-10-17 04:12:55 +0200 | td_ | (~td@i53870919.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2023-10-17 04:13:14 +0200 | <EvanR> | I wrote a graph reducer based on chapter 2 of SPJ book implementation of functional programming languages. And a significant percent of the code is dealing with the presence of indirection nodes. But thanks to a side blurb in section 12.4.3, I never create any indirection nodes (instead, evaluate whatever you would have indirected to to WHNF then overwrite the redex with it). So that's funny |
| 2023-10-17 04:14:00 +0200 | <EvanR> | but I also don't have any unboxed integers. So maybe that's why |
| 2023-10-17 04:14:23 +0200 | <Pseudonym> | I was about to say... and if the result is physically larger than the redex? |
| 2023-10-17 04:14:25 +0200 | td_ | (~td@i53870913.versanet.de) |
| 2023-10-17 04:14:43 +0200 | <Pseudonym> | Also, you don't use a copying collector, which is probably for the best. |
| 2023-10-17 04:14:45 +0200 | <EvanR> | I have all cells the same size |
| 2023-10-17 04:14:51 +0200 | <Pseudonym> | Ah. |
| 2023-10-17 04:15:04 +0200 | <Pseudonym> | So cons is the same size as nil. |
| 2023-10-17 04:15:28 +0200 | <Pseudonym> | That's how you avoid indirection nodes. |
| 2023-10-17 04:15:33 +0200 | <EvanR> | yes because the heap is only 16 cells so several pointers fit in a cell xD |
| 2023-10-17 04:17:45 +0200 | <monochrom> | XD |
| 2023-10-17 04:18:08 +0200 | <EvanR> | which also makes GC really easy |
| 2023-10-17 04:18:19 +0200 | <monochrom> | This is why GHC takes GBs of RAM :) |
| 2023-10-17 04:22:37 +0200 | <EvanR> | ok but doesn't GHC have indirection nodes |
| 2023-10-17 04:23:17 +0200 | td_ | (~td@i53870913.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2023-10-17 04:23:30 +0200 | td_ | (~td@i53870913.versanet.de) |
| 2023-10-17 04:24:58 +0200 | <monochrom> | I was partly joking :) |
| 2023-10-17 04:25:41 +0200 | <monochrom> | But GHC was like "it's 8 bytes for even Int8 because uniformity". |
| 2023-10-17 04:26:13 +0200 | alphacentauri | (alphacenta@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/alphacentauri) (Quit: WeeChat 4.0.5) |
| 2023-10-17 04:26:14 +0200 | <monochrom> | Err no, 16 bytes! |
| 2023-10-17 04:26:44 +0200 | <monochrom> | Recently GHC versions have cut that down a bit. |
| 2023-10-17 04:26:57 +0200 | pretty_dumm_guy | (trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655) (Quit: WeeChat 3.5) |
| 2023-10-17 04:28:31 +0200 | Square | (~Square@user/square) |
| 2023-10-17 04:29:08 +0200 | alphacentauri | (alphacenta@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/alphacentauri) |
| 2023-10-17 04:30:24 +0200 | finn_elija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) |
| 2023-10-17 04:30:24 +0200 | FinnElija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Killed (NickServ (Forcing logout FinnElija -> finn_elija))) |
| 2023-10-17 04:30:24 +0200 | finn_elija | FinnElija |
| 2023-10-17 04:31:08 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:e9d7:8bce:4928:5b34) |
| 2023-10-17 04:32:19 +0200 | azimut | (~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-10-17 04:35:59 +0200 | bitdex | (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-10-17 04:37:35 +0200 | Natch | (~natch@c-9e07225c.038-60-73746f7.bbcust.telenor.se) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-10-17 04:38:48 +0200 | nate2 | (~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 2023-10-17 04:38:55 +0200 | <EvanR> | it's a 64-bit machine, when in 64-bit rome do 64-bit things |
| 2023-10-17 04:41:53 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@125x103x176x34.ap125.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) |
| 2023-10-17 04:42:53 +0200 | Natch | (~natch@c-9e07225c.038-60-73746f7.bbcust.telenor.se) |
| 2023-10-17 04:43:32 +0200 | nate2 | (~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-10-17 04:45:28 +0200 | <davean> | When in 64-bit rome, do AVX10.1/512 things. |
| 2023-10-17 04:50:48 +0200 | Natch | (~natch@c-9e07225c.038-60-73746f7.bbcust.telenor.se) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-10-17 04:52:34 +0200 | waleee | (~waleee@2001:9b0:21c:e600:f2f3:f744:435d:137c) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-10-17 04:56:06 +0200 | Natch | (~natch@c-9e07225c.038-60-73746f7.bbcust.telenor.se) |
| 2023-10-17 04:56:18 +0200 | alphacentauri | (alphacenta@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/alphacentauri) (Quit: WeeChat 4.1.0) |
| 2023-10-17 04:57:52 +0200 | Unicorn_Princess | (~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) |
| 2023-10-17 04:59:28 +0200 | sm | (~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm) |
| 2023-10-17 05:00:03 +0200 | sm | (~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm) (Client Quit) |
| 2023-10-17 05:00:32 +0200 | alphacentauri | (alphacenta@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/alphacentauri) |
| 2023-10-17 05:02:34 +0200 | alphacentauri | (alphacenta@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/alphacentauri) (Client Quit) |
| 2023-10-17 05:02:39 +0200 | jargon | (~jargon@174-22-221-150.phnx.qwest.net) |
| 2023-10-17 05:07:16 +0200 | alphacentauri | (alphacenta@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/alphacentauri) |
| 2023-10-17 05:10:47 +0200 | aforemny_ | (~aforemny@2001:9e8:6cf3:2200:78b4:c4c0:dc3:eb14) |
| 2023-10-17 05:11:24 +0200 | earthy | (~arthurvl@2a02-a469-f5e2-1-83d2-ca43-57a2-dc81.fixed6.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-10-17 05:11:34 +0200 | aforemny | (~aforemny@i59F516ED.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-10-17 05:11:39 +0200 | alphacentauri | (alphacenta@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/alphacentauri) (Client Quit) |
| 2023-10-17 05:12:14 +0200 | alphacentauri | (alphacenta@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/alphacentauri) |
| 2023-10-17 05:20:20 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-10-17 05:29:05 +0200 | alphacentauri | (alphacenta@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/alphacentauri) (Quit: WeeChat 4.1.0) |
| 2023-10-17 05:30:22 +0200 | Inst | (~Inst@120.244.192.250) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2023-10-17 05:35:30 +0200 | Square | (~Square@user/square) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-10-17 05:37:53 +0200 | Square | (~Square@user/square) |
| 2023-10-17 05:45:05 +0200 | Natch | (~natch@c-9e07225c.038-60-73746f7.bbcust.telenor.se) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-10-17 05:46:19 +0200 | Inst | (~Inst@120.244.192.250) |
| 2023-10-17 05:50:23 +0200 | Natch | (~natch@c-9e07225c.038-60-73746f7.bbcust.telenor.se) |
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| 2023-10-17 05:59:01 +0200 | bilegeek | (~bilegeek@2600:1008:b013:eb04:f910:8d38:6349:3824) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2023-10-17 06:03:19 +0200 | Natch | (~natch@c-9e07225c.038-60-73746f7.bbcust.telenor.se) |
| 2023-10-17 06:07:12 +0200 | _ht | (~Thunderbi@28-52-174-82.ftth.glasoperator.nl) |
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| 2023-10-17 06:09:22 +0200 | gdown | (~gavin@h69-11-149-109.kndrid.broadband.dynamic.tds.net) |
| 2023-10-17 06:12:25 +0200 | doyougnu | (~doyougnu@45.46.170.68) |
| 2023-10-17 06:13:24 +0200 | Natch | (~natch@c-9e07225c.038-60-73746f7.bbcust.telenor.se) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-10-17 06:14:46 +0200 | lisbeths | (uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2023-10-17 06:18:42 +0200 | Natch | (~natch@c-9e07225c.038-60-73746f7.bbcust.telenor.se) |
| 2023-10-17 06:22:25 +0200 | danse-nr3 | (~francesco@151.57.108.203) |
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| 2023-10-17 06:29:59 +0200 | goldenstack | (~goldensta@2601:249:9200:c373:b8f9:3813:3bb4:f74b) |
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| 2023-10-17 06:44:14 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2023-10-17 06:45:29 +0200 | raym | (~ray@user/raym) (Quit: upgrade to FreeBSD 14.0-RC1) |
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| 2023-10-17 06:46:19 +0200 | misterfish | (~misterfis@84-53-85-146.bbserv.nl) |
| 2023-10-17 06:47:35 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-046-114-200-142.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2023-10-17 06:47:43 +0200 | danse-nr3 | (~francesco@151.57.108.203) |
| 2023-10-17 06:48:11 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-046-114-200-142.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-10-17 06:48:28 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2023-10-17 06:49:05 +0200 | Square | (~Square@user/square) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-10-17 06:49:18 +0200 | goldenstack | (~goldensta@2601:249:9200:c373:b8f9:3813:3bb4:f74b) |
| 2023-10-17 06:49:42 +0200 | goldenstack | (~goldensta@2601:249:9200:c373:b8f9:3813:3bb4:f74b) (Client Quit) |
| 2023-10-17 06:52:54 +0200 | sm | (~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm) |
| 2023-10-17 06:55:50 +0200 | bilegeek | (~bilegeek@2600:1008:b013:eb04:f910:8d38:6349:3824) |
| 2023-10-17 06:59:10 +0200 | michalz | (~michalz@185.246.207.197) |
| 2023-10-17 06:59:25 +0200 | Natch | (~natch@c-9e07225c.038-60-73746f7.bbcust.telenor.se) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-10-17 07:01:43 +0200 | Square | (~Square@user/square) |
| 2023-10-17 07:04:43 +0200 | Natch | (~natch@c-9e07225c.038-60-73746f7.bbcust.telenor.se) |
| 2023-10-17 07:10:33 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-10-17 07:11:16 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2023-10-17 07:15:52 +0200 | ryanbooker | (uid4340@id-4340.hampstead.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2023-10-17 07:18:54 +0200 | takuan | (~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) |
| 2023-10-17 07:19:08 +0200 | Pseudonym | (~IceChat95@203.214.86.172) (Quit: Never put off till tomorrow, what you can do the day after tomorrow) |
| 2023-10-17 07:27:01 +0200 | Inst | (~Inst@120.244.192.250) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-10-17 07:27:18 +0200 | alphacentauri | (alphacenta@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/alphacentauri) |
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| 2023-10-17 07:34:30 +0200 | rosco | (~rosco@yp-150-69.tm.net.my) |
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| 2023-10-17 07:42:06 +0200 | _ht | (~Thunderbi@28-52-174-82.ftth.glasoperator.nl) (Quit: _ht) |
| 2023-10-17 07:42:18 +0200 | harveypwca | (~harveypwc@2601:246:c280:6a90:837d:db39:3eea:f7db) |
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| 2023-10-17 08:03:08 +0200 | Square2 | (~Square4@user/square) |
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| 2023-10-17 08:11:14 +0200 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e72b933890137bb0a9c5386a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2023-10-17 08:11:42 +0200 | lisbeths | (uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-10-17 08:13:24 +0200 | vglfr | (~vglfr@88.155.159.184) |
| 2023-10-17 08:17:25 +0200 | hiyori | (~hiyori@user/hiyori) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2023-10-17 08:19:13 +0200 | gdown | (~gavin@h69-11-149-109.kndrid.broadband.dynamic.tds.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-10-17 08:23:40 +0200 | chomwitt | (~chomwitt@2a02:587:7a17:8900:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) |
| 2023-10-17 08:27:48 +0200 | bilegeek | (~bilegeek@2600:1008:b013:eb04:f910:8d38:6349:3824) (Quit: Leaving) |
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| 2023-10-17 08:35:16 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-046-114-200-142.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-10-17 08:35:33 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2023-10-17 08:40:19 +0200 | nate2 | (~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
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| 2023-10-17 08:45:33 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-046-114-200-142.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2023-10-17 08:45:53 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-046-114-200-142.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-10-17 08:46:10 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2023-10-17 08:47:07 +0200 | idgaen | (~idgaen@2a01:e0a:498:fd50:fcc6:bb5d:489a:ce8c) (Quit: WeeChat 4.0.5) |
| 2023-10-17 08:47:07 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-10-17 08:47:34 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
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| 2023-10-17 09:39:12 +0200 | chexum | (~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 2023-10-17 09:41:26 +0200 | oo_miguel | (~Thunderbi@78-11-179-96.static.ip.netia.com.pl) |
| 2023-10-17 09:42:29 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-10-17 09:43:48 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2023-10-17 09:47:06 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:e9d7:8bce:4928:5b34) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 2023-10-17 09:52:36 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net) |
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| 2023-10-17 10:03:24 +0200 | econo_ | (uid147250@id-147250.tinside.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2023-10-17 10:03:36 +0200 | notzmv | (~zmv@user/notzmv) |
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| 2023-10-17 12:18:47 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <mauke> Sounds cray c |
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| 2023-10-17 13:02:48 +0200 | chele | Guest9771 |
| 2023-10-17 13:02:48 +0200 | Guest9771 | (~chele@user/chele) (Killed (osmium.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services))) |
| 2023-10-17 13:02:48 +0200 | chele_ | chele |
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| 2023-10-17 13:49:40 +0200 | hugo- | (znc@verdigris.lysator.liu.se) |
| 2023-10-17 13:57:59 +0200 | <cheater> | any suggestions to run java code under haskell? |
| 2023-10-17 13:58:10 +0200 | <cheater> | is there a good FFI or something like that? |
| 2023-10-17 14:02:14 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-046-114-206-239.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 2023-10-17 14:10:28 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2023-10-17 14:11:11 +0200 | Unicorn_Princess | (~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) |
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| 2023-10-17 14:19:17 +0200 | fendor | (~fendor@2a02:8388:1640:be00:aab:1226:f274:5021) |
| 2023-10-17 14:19:19 +0200 | Square3 | (~Square4@user/square) |
| 2023-10-17 14:21:22 +0200 | Square2 | (~Square4@user/square) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-10-17 14:22:06 +0200 | <[exa]> | cheater: if you can exec java from C-ish languages, you can probably call it from FFI...but I saw that in action once and I wouldn't want to do it ever again |
| 2023-10-17 14:23:19 +0200 | <[exa]> | following this should "do it": https://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/technotes/guides/jni/spec/invocation.html |
| 2023-10-17 14:27:57 +0200 | vglfr | (~vglfr@88.155.159.184) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 2023-10-17 14:29:33 +0200 | dcoutts | (~duncan@net77-43-75-226.mclink.it) |
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| 2023-10-17 14:34:50 +0200 | danse-nr3_ | (~francesco@151.47.125.43) |
| 2023-10-17 14:36:11 +0200 | <Athas> | When was Data.Kind.Type introduced? |
| 2023-10-17 14:38:48 +0200 | <Hecate> | no idea |
| 2023-10-17 14:39:42 +0200 | <Athas> | Looks like it was base 4.9, which I think corresponds to GHC 7.10. |
| 2023-10-17 14:39:57 +0200 | <Athas> | (The fact that base and GHC version numbers do not correspond is the second worsst Haskel design flaw.) |
| 2023-10-17 14:40:39 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | Athas: according to ghcup, base-4.9.1 was ghc 8.0.2 |
| 2023-10-17 14:40:50 +0200 | <Athas> | Oh yes, I misread the table. |
| 2023-10-17 14:40:54 +0200 | <Athas> | Off by one row. |
| 2023-10-17 14:41:23 +0200 | <Athas> | But it does not make a difference, as the library I maintain supports 7.2. |
| 2023-10-17 14:41:31 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | oof |
| 2023-10-17 14:41:39 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | that's dedication |
| 2023-10-17 14:42:11 +0200 | <Athas> | It's fgl. I'm more of a custodian than a maintainer, but I'm reluctant to be the one to break compatibility. |
| 2023-10-17 14:42:36 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | do you have those old ghc versions around to test with |
| 2023-10-17 14:42:40 +0200 | <Athas> | Yes. |
| 2023-10-17 14:42:57 +0200 | <Athas> | It looks pretty cool in CI! https://github.com/haskell/fgl/actions/runs/6523159389 |
| 2023-10-17 14:43:11 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | juicy |
| 2023-10-17 14:43:18 +0200 | <Athas> | If you'd asked me before, I would say it is not viable to keep a nontrivial library working across a decade of GHC versions. |
| 2023-10-17 14:43:26 +0200 | <Athas> | Honestly, I'm still not sure it is viable. |
| 2023-10-17 14:43:38 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | :p |
| 2023-10-17 14:44:24 +0200 | ddellacosta | (~ddellacos@ool-44c738de.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 2023-10-17 14:44:52 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | ah, the venerable PPA |
| 2023-10-17 14:46:42 +0200 | rosco | (~rosco@yp-150-69.tm.net.my) |
| 2023-10-17 14:47:16 +0200 | <Athas> | How is HVR's PPA still around? |
| 2023-10-17 14:49:08 +0200 | <lortabac> | Athas: what's the first design flaw? |
| 2023-10-17 14:49:17 +0200 | <Athas> | lortabac: using :: for type ascription. |
| 2023-10-17 14:49:25 +0200 | <lortabac> | I see |
| 2023-10-17 14:49:37 +0200 | <lortabac> | I think base versions are worse |
| 2023-10-17 14:52:23 +0200 | <Hecate> | Athas: I think someone else maintains it, like phadej? |
| 2023-10-17 14:56:00 +0200 | <Athas> | fgl? |
| 2023-10-17 14:56:46 +0200 | <Athas> | Or the PPA? |
| 2023-10-17 14:58:30 +0200 | misterfish | (~misterfis@87.215.131.102) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-10-17 14:58:41 +0200 | azimut | (~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) |
| 2023-10-17 15:05:55 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
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| 2023-10-17 15:07:01 +0200 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!) |
| 2023-10-17 15:12:13 +0200 | <Hecate> | Athas: sorry the PPA |
| 2023-10-17 15:13:26 +0200 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@2a05:5800:2cb:7700:664b:f0ff:fe37:9ef) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
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| 2023-10-17 15:26:14 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
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| 2023-10-17 15:27:45 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2023-10-17 15:30:43 +0200 | Katarushisu1 | (~Katarushi@cpc147790-finc20-2-0-cust502.4-2.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat) |
| 2023-10-17 15:34:30 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2023-10-17 15:34:40 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-046-114-206-239.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2023-10-17 15:34:59 +0200 | Katarushisu1 | (~Katarushi@cpc147790-finc20-2-0-cust502.4-2.cable.virginm.net) |
| 2023-10-17 15:37:37 +0200 | gmg | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) |
| 2023-10-17 15:42:13 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <eldritchcookie> how much code minimum should a library? contain i made one that adds a effect to Effectful to integrate with katip it was too easy so i am hesitant to just publish it to hackage |
| 2023-10-17 15:42:35 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <eldritchcookie> like i would never think it would be only 100ish lines |
| 2023-10-17 15:47:36 +0200 | <Hecate> | that's entirely valid |
| 2023-10-17 15:47:56 +0200 | <fendor> | There is no minimum. If that's all there is to effectful integration with katip, it is still 100ish lines you don't have to write yourself |
| 2023-10-17 15:48:20 +0200 | <Hecate> | I haven't uploaded my own effects yet because I had no need, but do upload yours, just make sure it follows the naming convention of other Effectful effects |
| 2023-10-17 15:48:36 +0200 | shriekingnoise | (~shrieking@186.137.175.87) |
| 2023-10-17 15:53:27 +0200 | mc47 | (~mc47@xmonad/TheMC47) |
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| 2023-10-17 16:32:01 +0200 | ChanServ | +v haskellbridge |
| 2023-10-17 16:32:52 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-10-17 16:33:09 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
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| 2023-10-17 19:29:33 +0200 | AlexNoo_ | AlexNoo |
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| 2023-10-17 21:15:14 +0200 | vglfr | (~vglfr@88.155.159.184) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-10-17 21:16:11 +0200 | <Unicorn_Princess> | i wanna use haskell as a shell replacement, and augment it with my own library of random utilities. any tips? |
| 2023-10-17 21:17:04 +0200 | <geekosaur> | look at shelly or turtle,but this kinda sounds like a bad plan tbh |
| 2023-10-17 21:17:04 +0200 | vglfr | (~vglfr@88.155.159.184) |
| 2023-10-17 21:18:13 +0200 | <Unicorn_Princess> | i'm unclear of the benefits of stuff like shelly - an easier way to run programs than System.Process? |
| 2023-10-17 21:18:36 +0200 | <Unicorn_Princess> | otherwise, why a bad idea? |
| 2023-10-17 21:18:44 +0200 | <geekosaur> | yes, plus it comes with easier ways to hook programs together |
| 2023-10-17 21:19:01 +0200 | <geekosaur> | but "bad idea" is mostly because ghci makes a poor shell in general |
| 2023-10-17 21:19:22 +0200 | <Unicorn_Princess> | other than that, shelly still has you writing plain haskell code? |
| 2023-10-17 21:19:39 +0200 | <geekosaur> | yes |
| 2023-10-17 21:20:16 +0200 | <geekosaur> | just with tools to build pipelines and filters and such, where you'd normally have to link them together yourself via createProcess |
| 2023-10-17 21:21:31 +0200 | <Unicorn_Princess> | i'll definitely give it a shot. even 'poor' is a massive upgrade from the horrors of bash |
| 2023-10-17 21:22:30 +0200 | <Unicorn_Princess> | thanks for the pointer. i was quite lost in which of the haskell shell thingies is the 'best', shelly looks good |
| 2023-10-17 21:23:18 +0200 | danza | (~francesco@151.57.105.142) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2023-10-17 21:23:31 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:b915:f992:5adb:85e) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-10-17 21:23:32 +0200 | <geekosaur> | tempted to say that if you don't like bash, maybe you want to look at fish |
| 2023-10-17 21:24:29 +0200 | hugo | (znc@verdigris.lysator.liu.se) |
| 2023-10-17 21:26:36 +0200 | <Unicorn_Princess> | "if"? does anyone _like_ bash, except the criminally insane perhaps? |
| 2023-10-17 21:27:05 +0200 | mc47 | (~mc47@xmonad/TheMC47) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-10-17 21:27:07 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | if nothing else, its ubiquity is something to be said for it |
| 2023-10-17 21:27:15 +0200 | <Unicorn_Princess> | :S |
| 2023-10-17 21:27:16 +0200 | <[exa]> | Unicorn_Princess: I do |
| 2023-10-17 21:28:06 +0200 | <davean> | tomsmeding: Hum, I feel thats a thing to say for sh, extending that to bash ... |
| 2023-10-17 21:28:33 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | despite using fish as my day-to-day shell, I still write some scripts in bash, because it has that much more flexibility and conciseness than fish for scripting |
| 2023-10-17 21:29:06 +0200 | <mauke> | what's wrong with bash? |
| 2023-10-17 21:29:08 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | (when they get too large or require more interesting data structures than, say, a single list, I quickly move to python for such simple tools) |
| 2023-10-17 21:29:18 +0200 | ft | (~ft@p200300cf3f482500978224aa0512647c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2023-10-17 21:29:25 +0200 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-236.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 2023-10-17 21:29:34 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | davean: true enough, but bash is still quite a bit more ubiquitous than haskell ;) |
| 2023-10-17 21:29:43 +0200 | <geekosaur> | I still remember the day when our only options when you couln't write it in sh was awk or C |
| 2023-10-17 21:30:04 +0200 | <geekosaur> | that does not mean I use bash (or in my case zsh) as my primary programming language |
| 2023-10-17 21:30:07 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | python would be a competitor, but using `subprocess` still doesn't quite get the smoothness of shell scripting for connecting some commands together :) |
| 2023-10-17 21:30:29 +0200 | <geekosaur> | but I'll still write shell loops for sufficiently simple things that are mostly pasting programs together |
| 2023-10-17 21:30:38 +0200 | <Unicorn_Princess> | hm, looking at fish, it does not even approach the virtue of haskell |
| 2023-10-17 21:30:51 +0200 | friendshipaka | (~Friendshi@user/Friendship) |
| 2023-10-17 21:30:53 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | geekosaur: for the things it does well, shell scripting is remarkably concise |
| 2023-10-17 21:30:59 +0200 | <geekosaur> | yes |
| 2023-10-17 21:31:05 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | so if you know it well already anyway, it's useful :) |
| 2023-10-17 21:31:12 +0200 | <geekosaur> | problem being, it only does a few things well |
| 2023-10-17 21:31:15 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | :p |
| 2023-10-17 21:31:21 +0200 | <Unicorn_Princess> | you mean $"{yes}" |
| 2023-10-17 21:31:38 +0200 | tomsmeding | is not sure what to auto-correct that to |
| 2023-10-17 21:31:52 +0200 | <geekosaur> | I mean /usr/bin/yes 😛 |
| 2023-10-17 21:32:13 +0200 | <Unicorn_Princess> | and don't forget to suffix every command with -- or cause a cve |
| 2023-10-17 21:32:34 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | if you expose it to user input, yes |
| 2023-10-17 21:32:56 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | the majority of my bash scripts are exposed to input from exactly one user -- me |
| 2023-10-17 21:33:03 +0200 | <Unicorn_Princess> | filenames are a sort of user input |
| 2023-10-17 21:33:55 +0200 | Friendship | (~Friendshi@user/Friendship) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-10-17 21:34:46 +0200 | <mauke> | touch +RTS |
| 2023-10-17 21:35:25 +0200 | vglfr | (~vglfr@88.155.159.184) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-10-17 21:35:45 +0200 | vglfr | (vglfr@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/vglfr) |
| 2023-10-17 21:39:00 +0200 | harveypwca | (~harveypwc@2601:246:c280:6a90:837d:db39:3eea:f7db) |
| 2023-10-17 21:44:57 +0200 | <EvanR> | don't touch that |
| 2023-10-17 21:50:00 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | touch $'\n' |
| 2023-10-17 21:50:57 +0200 | <[exa]> | oh you! |
| 2023-10-17 21:52:13 +0200 | <EvanR> | maybe one day I'll understand what characters are allowed in files names |
| 2023-10-17 21:52:47 +0200 | <int-e> | and then you'll be ready to move on to another OS |
| 2023-10-17 21:53:05 +0200 | <EvanR> | oh is that the order to do it in |
| 2023-10-17 21:53:47 +0200 | <int-e> | for a smidgen of humor it is |
| 2023-10-17 21:54:01 +0200 | fendor | (~fendor@2a02:8388:1640:be00:aab:1226:f274:5021) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-10-17 21:54:37 +0200 | <EvanR> | was reading the microsoft windows API docs which seems to indicate legacy character sets might be used in filenames, but didn't explain how that interacts with unicode |
| 2023-10-17 21:56:13 +0200 | cpressey | (~cpressey@host-2-102-14-126.as13285.net) (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)) |
| 2023-10-17 21:58:50 +0200 | vglfr | (vglfr@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/vglfr) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-10-17 21:59:09 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | come to the linux world where filenames are easy (tm) |
| 2023-10-17 21:59:34 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | '\NUL' is not allowed because C; '/' is not allowed because paths |
| 2023-10-17 21:59:36 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | that's it |
| 2023-10-17 21:59:44 +0200 | Guest|97 | (~Guest|97@94.8.25.217) |
| 2023-10-17 21:59:48 +0200 | Guest|97 | (~Guest|97@94.8.25.217) (Client Quit) |
| 2023-10-17 22:00:05 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | of course "easy" should have scare quotes because this means that you get stuff like invalid unicode and newlines in filenames |
| 2023-10-17 22:02:10 +0200 | <moni_> | it's so cool that i just name files whatever and it works |
| 2023-10-17 22:02:24 +0200 | <moni_> | i also haven't mained a windows desktop in about 8 years |
| 2023-10-17 22:02:46 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:b915:f992:5adb:85e) |
| 2023-10-17 22:03:13 +0200 | <EvanR> | brain expansion meme |
| 2023-10-17 22:03:32 +0200 | <EvanR> | ascii everywhere -> utf8 everywhere -> all encodings everywhere -> ascii everywhere |
| 2023-10-17 22:04:42 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | weren't step 2 and step 3 reversed |
| 2023-10-17 22:04:58 +0200 | <EvanR> | that would make too much sense |
| 2023-10-17 22:05:04 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | ah, right |
| 2023-10-17 22:05:13 +0200 | <mauke> | inb4 BOM in filenames |
| 2023-10-17 22:06:05 +0200 | <EvanR> | the docs give the distinct impression that windows is concerned with supporting legacy encodings and unicode as a side gig |
| 2023-10-17 22:06:30 +0200 | <EvanR> | and they're not that old |
| 2023-10-17 22:07:08 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:b915:f992:5adb:85e) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2023-10-17 22:07:28 +0200 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) |
| 2023-10-17 22:07:39 +0200 | misterfish | (~misterfis@84-53-85-146.bbserv.nl) |
| 2023-10-17 22:07:48 +0200 | _ht | (~Thunderbi@28-52-174-82.ftth.glasoperator.nl) (Quit: _ht) |
| 2023-10-17 22:08:13 +0200 | <EvanR> | a software engineer mentioned in passing a couple years ago, he seemed to doubt the viability of unicode |
| 2023-10-17 22:08:36 +0200 | <mauke> | it's just a fad, like the internet |
| 2023-10-17 22:08:47 +0200 | <EvanR> | microsoft reality distortion field might be stuck on overdrive |
| 2023-10-17 22:09:32 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | % System.Process.rawSystem "touch" ["\65279"] >> System.Process.rawSystem "ls" ["-lF"] |
| 2023-10-17 22:09:32 +0200 | <yahb2> | touch: cannot touch '': Read-only file system ; total 12 ; -rwxr-xr-x 1 1000 1001 99 Jun 14 2022 entry.sh* ; -rw-r--r-- 1 1000 1001 383 Apr 22 17:46 initdefs.hs ; -rw-r--r-- 1 1000 1001 181 Jun ... |
| 2023-10-17 22:09:51 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | % System.Process.rawSystem "touch" ["/tmp/\65279"] >> System.Process.rawSystem "ls" ["-lF", "/tmp"] |
| 2023-10-17 22:09:52 +0200 | <yahb2> | total 0 ; -rw-r--r-- 1 1000 1001 0 Oct 17 20:09 ; drwxr-xr-x 2 1000 1001 40 Oct 15 19:49 ghc4_0/ ; ExitSuccess |
| 2023-10-17 22:10:34 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | mauke: BOM in filename |
| 2023-10-17 22:11:16 +0200 | <mauke> | % System.Process.rawSystem "ls" ["--quoting-style=shell-escape", "/tmp"] |
| 2023-10-17 22:11:16 +0200 | <yahb2> | ; ghc4_0 ; ExitSuccess |
| 2023-10-17 22:11:55 +0200 | sm | (~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm) |
| 2023-10-17 22:12:22 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | Nobody said it was easy |
| 2023-10-17 22:12:23 +0200 | sm | (~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm) (Client Quit) |
| 2023-10-17 22:13:24 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | % System.Directory.listDirectory "/tmp" |
| 2023-10-17 22:13:24 +0200 | <yahb2> | ["\65279","ghc4_0"] |
| 2023-10-17 22:13:48 +0200 | <EvanR> | how does GHC FilePath work |
| 2023-10-17 22:13:57 +0200 | <EvanR> | locale? |
| 2023-10-17 22:14:08 +0200 | michalz | (~michalz@185.246.207.197) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-10-17 22:14:12 +0200 | <geekosaur> | locale, yes |
| 2023-10-17 22:14:15 +0200 | <moni_> | Internet is just a fad in the sense that the roman aqueducts were just a fad |
| 2023-10-17 22:14:30 +0200 | <EvanR> | it's a series of tubes? |
| 2023-10-17 22:14:37 +0200 | <moni_> | Precisely |
| 2023-10-17 22:14:55 +0200 | <geekosaur> | but it's not built into FilePath, it's wired into how base wraps syscalls |
| 2023-10-17 22:15:14 +0200 | <EvanR> | so if you change locale god help you |
| 2023-10-17 22:15:33 +0200 | <mauke> | % System.Process.rawSystem "ls" ["--quoting-style=shell-escape-always", "/tmp"] |
| 2023-10-17 22:15:33 +0200 | <yahb2> | '' ; 'ghc4_0' ; ExitSuccess |
| 2023-10-17 22:15:37 +0200 | <EvanR> | your files might be inaccessible |
| 2023-10-17 22:16:25 +0200 | <geekosaur> | that's a problem with POSIX paths in general |
| 2023-10-17 22:17:18 +0200 | <geekosaur> | a while back you could make the gtk file dialog dump core by having two files with the "same name" but different representations (i.e.. one or both is not normalized) |
| 2023-10-17 22:20:30 +0200 | <EvanR> | no one try that with yahb2 |
| 2023-10-17 22:20:59 +0200 | Unicorn_Princess | (~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-10-17 22:24:21 +0200 | shapr | (~user@2600:1700:c640:3100:56f1:ca94:4995:b15) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-10-17 22:28:10 +0200 | cpressey | (~cpressey@host-2-102-14-126.as13285.net) |
| 2023-10-17 22:30:23 +0200 | cpressey | (~cpressey@host-2-102-14-126.as13285.net) (Client Quit) |
| 2023-10-17 22:34:14 +0200 | falafel | (~falafel@62.175.113.194.dyn.user.ono.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2023-10-17 22:35:22 +0200 | takuan | (~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-10-17 22:36:19 +0200 | Jackneill | (~Jackneill@20014C4E1E021C006528DBAB23459C2F.dsl.pool.telekom.hu) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-10-17 22:39:00 +0200 | cpressey | (~cpressey@host-2-102-14-126.as13285.net) |
| 2023-10-17 22:50:38 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:b915:f992:5adb:85e) |
| 2023-10-17 22:52:13 +0200 | gdown | (~gavin@h69-11-149-109.kndrid.broadband.dynamic.tds.net) |
| 2023-10-17 22:55:06 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | % writeFile "/tmp/\97\770" "a + combining circumflex" >> writeFile "/tmp/\226" "a with circumflex" |
| 2023-10-17 22:55:06 +0200 | <yahb2> | <no output> |
| 2023-10-17 22:55:15 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | % System.Directory.listDirectory "/tmp" |
| 2023-10-17 22:55:16 +0200 | <yahb2> | ["\226","a\770","\65279","ghc4_0"] |
| 2023-10-17 22:55:26 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | EvanR: ghc cares not |
| 2023-10-17 22:55:46 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | https://tomsmeding.com/unicode#a%CC%82%20%C3%A2 |
| 2023-10-17 22:56:56 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net) |
| 2023-10-17 22:57:54 +0200 | <EvanR> | so you're saying ghc is abnormalized |
| 2023-10-17 23:02:32 +0200 | phma | (phma@2001:5b0:211b:9d88:b368:1baa:7a2:22b7) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-10-17 23:02:58 +0200 | phma | (~phma@host-67-44-208-18.hnremote.net) |
| 2023-10-17 23:11:18 +0200 | infinity0 | (~infinity0@pwned.gg) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-10-17 23:13:26 +0200 | infinity0 | (~infinity0@pwned.gg) |
| 2023-10-17 23:15:40 +0200 | pretty_dumm_guy | (trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655) |
| 2023-10-17 23:29:08 +0200 | rgw | (~R@2605:a601:a0df:5600:88:c751:f921:bfac) |
| 2023-10-17 23:32:12 +0200 | Pickchea | (~private@user/pickchea) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2023-10-17 23:34:59 +0200 | malte | (~malte@mal.tc) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-10-17 23:36:17 +0200 | malte | (~malte@mal.tc) |
| 2023-10-17 23:38:12 +0200 | tired- | (~tired@user/tired) (Quit: /) |
| 2023-10-17 23:39:36 +0200 | tired | (~tired@user/tired) |
| 2023-10-17 23:39:45 +0200 | falafel | (~falafel@62.175.113.194.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 2023-10-17 23:43:03 +0200 | emmanuelux | (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) |
| 2023-10-17 23:52:51 +0200 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) |
| 2023-10-17 23:53:25 +0200 | misterfish | (~misterfis@84-53-85-146.bbserv.nl) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-10-17 23:59:35 +0200 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e72b933890137bb0a9c5386a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
