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2023-08-05 01:24:05 +0200ph88(~ph88@ip5b403cd4.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2023-08-05 01:24:24 +0200 <pjs> Hi all. I don't know haskell at all and am trying to build matterhorn on a new alpine system. I run the build script (which is essentially just a cabal command) and I get this dependency error and I'm not quite sure how to resolve it. Details here: https://paste.sr.ht/~petersanchez/8b42266f66dd7403c1379098fed902149378af4a
2023-08-05 01:24:29 +0200 <pjs> any help is appreciated
2023-08-05 01:25:47 +0200acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7072f47e122610b7cbe2edf.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2023-08-05 01:25:58 +0200 <glguy> pjs: I'll look
2023-08-05 01:26:05 +0200 <c_wraith> pjs: that looks like a ghc version issue.
2023-08-05 01:26:05 +0200 <geekosaur> that's a somewhat unfortunate way of saying you need an older ghc and its installed libraries
2023-08-05 01:26:52 +0200 <jackdk> matterhorn is refusing to depend on versions of the haskell package `text` newer than 2.0; your GHC shipped with `text-2.0.1`; older versions of `text` don't support the version of `ghc-prim` that your GHC came with.
2023-08-05 01:27:16 +0200 <glguy> pjs: I think it wants ghc-9.2.8
2023-08-05 01:27:17 +0200 <glguy> cabal build -w ghc-9.2.8 -j --enable-tests
2023-08-05 01:27:22 +0200 <glguy> as the last line in the build.sh
2023-08-05 01:27:37 +0200 <pjs> thanks! let me try
2023-08-05 01:28:06 +0200 <glguy> if you don't have ghc-9.2.8 yet, I think it's: ghcup install ghc 9.2.8
2023-08-05 01:28:46 +0200cptaffe(~cptaffe@99-47-99-155.lightspeed.ltrkar.sbcglobal.net)
2023-08-05 01:29:04 +0200 <jackdk> You could try: 1. editing `matterhorn.cabal` to allow newer versions of text: https://github.com/matterhorn-chat/matterhorn/blob/master/matterhorn.cabal#L181 could read `, text >= 1.2.5.0 && < 2.0 || >= 2.0 && <2.1`
2023-08-05 01:29:13 +0200 <jackdk> 2. Using an older version of GHC as glguy suggested
2023-08-05 01:29:49 +0200 <pjs> I don't have ghcup installed so let me try editing the cabal file first
2023-08-05 01:30:55 +0200 <jackdk> Where are you getting GHC from? ghcup is now the most recommended way to get a copy.
2023-08-05 01:31:25 +0200 <pjs> jackdk: seems to be working (so far lol)
2023-08-05 01:31:53 +0200 <pjs> jackdk: alpine packages I'm sure.. I haven't done anything haskell specific for it other than packages
2023-08-05 01:32:09 +0200 <jackdk> Unless a package uses funky internals, it usually has no trouble moving to text >= 2.0
2023-08-05 01:33:56 +0200 <pjs> jackdk: so far so good..
2023-08-05 01:43:05 +0200 <pjs> jackdk: it built successfully! thank you!
2023-08-05 01:43:14 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2023-08-05 01:43:14 +0200 <pjs> thanks to everyone for the help!
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2023-08-05 07:35:59 +0200travgm(~travgm@fsf/member/travgm)
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2023-08-05 08:37:11 +0200acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7072f29e122610b7cbe2edf.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2023-08-05 08:47:37 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com)
2023-08-05 08:47:37 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com) (Changing host)
2023-08-05 08:47:37 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe)
2023-08-05 08:52:22 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
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2023-08-05 09:10:15 +0200ubert(~Thunderbi@91.141.36.10.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
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2023-08-05 09:24:43 +0200oo_miguel(~Thunderbi@78-11-179-96.static.ip.netia.com.pl)
2023-08-05 09:39:21 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:b969:84de:9a89:14ad) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-08-05 09:42:51 +0200flounders(~flounders@24.246.133.1)
2023-08-05 09:47:23 +0200puke(~puke@user/puke) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-08-05 09:51:00 +0200mmhat(~mmh@p200300f1c73d19c4ee086bfffe095315.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2023-08-05 09:52:26 +0200mmhat(~mmh@p200300f1c73d19c4ee086bfffe095315.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Client Quit)
2023-08-05 09:54:15 +0200puke(~puke@user/puke)
2023-08-05 09:54:58 +0200califax(~califax@user/califx) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-08-05 09:55:26 +0200califax(~califax@user/califx)
2023-08-05 09:55:39 +0200Inst(~Inst@2601:6c4:4081:2fc0:954:aa42:2681:deb6)
2023-08-05 09:55:43 +0200 <Inst> is Flatparse standard these days?
2023-08-05 09:59:26 +0200 <Inst> jesus, i just saw the benchmarks, the way i remembered it, attoparsec used to be very close to C performance, but extrapolating from Rust benchmarks it seems that flatparse is 1.75x rust
2023-08-05 10:00:54 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-08-05 10:01:15 +0200 <Inst> that said, cereal is faster than nom
2023-08-05 10:01:20 +0200 <Inst> n mp4s
2023-08-05 10:06:43 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2023-08-05 10:20:46 +0200merijn(~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl)
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2023-08-05 10:25:48 +0200[_](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
2023-08-05 10:29:24 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2023-08-05 10:30:16 +0200arjun(~arjun@user/arjun)
2023-08-05 10:39:23 +0200libertyprime(~libertypr@203.96.203.44) (Quit: leaving)
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2023-08-05 10:44:42 +0200Pickchea(~private@user/pickchea)
2023-08-05 10:44:54 +0200oo_miguel(~Thunderbi@78-11-179-96.static.ip.netia.com.pl) (Quit: oo_miguel)
2023-08-05 10:48:10 +0200_ht(~Thunderbi@28-52-174-82.ftth.glasoperator.nl)
2023-08-05 10:48:39 +0200razetime(~quassel@117.254.37.46)
2023-08-05 10:50:18 +0200anandprabhu(~anandprab@185.195.233.189) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2023-08-05 10:59:43 +0200harveypwca(~harveypwc@2601:246:c180:a570:3828:d8:e523:3f67) (Quit: Leaving)
2023-08-05 11:00:28 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2023-08-05 11:06:07 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2023-08-05 11:06:13 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-236.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
2023-08-05 11:07:56 +0200misterfish(~misterfis@84-53-85-146.bbserv.nl)
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2023-08-05 11:21:24 +0200sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937)
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2023-08-05 11:25:38 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2023-08-05 11:28:23 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2023-08-05 11:34:47 +0200gurkenglas(~gurkengla@dynamic-046-114-090-194.46.114.pool.telefonica.de)
2023-08-05 11:42:08 +0200travgm(~travgm@fsf/member/travgm) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-08-05 11:47:23 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2023-08-05 11:50:39 +0200zedkaido(~zedkaido@bl14-174-227.dsl.telepac.pt)
2023-08-05 11:51:07 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915)
2023-08-05 11:51:31 +0200zedkaido(~zedkaido@bl14-174-227.dsl.telepac.pt) (Client Quit)
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2023-08-05 11:54:22 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-08-05 11:57:44 +0200libertyprime(~libertypr@203.96.203.44)
2023-08-05 12:02:39 +0200Unicorn_Princess(~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542)
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2023-08-05 12:31:31 +0200sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937)
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2023-08-05 12:53:43 +0200Unicorn_Princess(~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2023-08-05 12:56:18 +0200arahael(~arahael@119-18-1-27.771201.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-08-05 12:56:49 +0200ulysses4everartem
2023-08-05 12:57:00 +0200zmt01(~zmt00@user/zmt00) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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2023-08-05 13:04:13 +0200gmg(~user@user/gehmehgeh)
2023-08-05 13:05:23 +0200artem(~ulysses4e@38.42.227.237) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2023-08-05 13:08:42 +0200ulysses4ever(~ulysses4e@38.42.227.237)
2023-08-05 13:09:16 +0200sm[i](~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm) (Quit: sm[i])
2023-08-05 13:10:11 +0200arahael(~arahael@119-18-1-27.771201.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net)
2023-08-05 13:18:04 +0200jinsun(~jinsun@user/jinsun) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-08-05 13:23:15 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@146.70.166.184) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-08-05 13:24:10 +0200sm[i](~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm)
2023-08-05 13:24:57 +0200doyougnu(~doyougnu@45.46.170.68) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2023-08-05 13:26:32 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@146.70.165.10)
2023-08-05 13:26:44 +0200danza(~francesco@151.19.233.154) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2023-08-05 13:28:25 +0200jinsun(~jinsun@user/jinsun)
2023-08-05 13:28:29 +0200arahael(~arahael@119-18-1-27.771201.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2023-08-05 13:30:18 +0200coot(~coot@89-69-206-216.dynamic.chello.pl) (Quit: coot)
2023-08-05 13:31:17 +0200Profpatsch(~Profpatsc@static.88-198-193-255.clients.your-server.de) (Quit: WeeChat 3.8)
2023-08-05 13:31:30 +0200Profpatsch(~Profpatsc@static.88-198-193-255.clients.your-server.de)
2023-08-05 13:32:08 +0200Profpatsch(~Profpatsc@static.88-198-193-255.clients.your-server.de) (Client Quit)
2023-08-05 13:35:31 +0200 <ncf> > [("a",1),("b",2),("c",3)] & each . imapped . Control.Lens.index "b" *~ 2
2023-08-05 13:35:32 +0200 <lambdabot> [("a",1),("b",4),("c",3)]
2023-08-05 13:36:27 +0200arahael(~arahael@119-18-1-27.771201.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net)
2023-08-05 13:39:55 +0200sm[i](~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm) (Quit: sm[i])
2023-08-05 13:41:16 +0200arahael(~arahael@119-18-1-27.771201.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2023-08-05 13:57:27 +0200idgaen(~idgaen@2a01:e0a:498:fd50:fcc6:bb5d:489a:ce8c) (Quit: WeeChat 4.0.2)
2023-08-05 13:57:59 +0200[_][itchyjunk]
2023-08-05 14:00:13 +0200arahael(~arahael@119-18-1-27.771201.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net)
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2023-08-05 14:09:43 +0200coot(~coot@89-69-206-216.dynamic.chello.pl)
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2023-08-05 14:21:04 +0200bgs(~bgs@212-85-160-171.dynamic.telemach.net)
2023-08-05 14:23:58 +0200coot(~coot@89-69-206-216.dynamic.chello.pl) (Quit: coot)
2023-08-05 14:24:56 +0200arahael(~arahael@119-18-1-27.771201.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net)
2023-08-05 14:28:00 +0200libertyprime(~libertypr@203.96.203.44) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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2023-08-05 14:41:04 +0200bgs(~bgs@212-85-160-171.dynamic.telemach.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2023-08-05 15:03:10 +0200sm[i](~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm)
2023-08-05 15:06:10 +0200ijqq_(uid603979@id-603979.helmsley.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2023-08-05 15:06:19 +0200Sciencentistguy8(~sciencent@hacksoc/ordinary-member)
2023-08-05 15:08:28 +0200Sciencentistguy(~sciencent@hacksoc/ordinary-member) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2023-08-05 15:08:28 +0200Sciencentistguy8Sciencentistguy
2023-08-05 15:09:16 +0200arahael(~arahael@119-18-1-27.771201.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net)
2023-08-05 15:09:53 +0200dvb^(~cd@24.125.210.85)
2023-08-05 15:18:25 +0200nate2(~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2023-08-05 15:23:07 +0200laxmik(~laxmik@dynamic-077-008-071-245.77.8.pool.telefonica.de)
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2023-08-05 15:28:32 +0200AlexNoo(~AlexNoo@178.34.161.41)
2023-08-05 15:29:02 +0200laxmik(~laxmik@dynamic-077-008-071-245.77.8.pool.telefonica.de) (Quit: laxmik)
2023-08-05 15:30:33 +0200jinsun(~jinsun@user/jinsun)
2023-08-05 15:30:59 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:21c:4000:5bf9:6515:c030:57b7) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2023-08-05 15:31:16 +0200Alex_test(~al_test@178.34.161.41)
2023-08-05 15:32:16 +0200AlexZenon(~alzenon@178.34.161.41)
2023-08-05 15:33:04 +0200razetime(~quassel@117.254.37.46) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-08-05 15:37:14 +0200arahael(~arahael@119-18-1-27.771201.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net)
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2023-08-05 15:44:27 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:b969:84de:9a89:14ad)
2023-08-05 15:46:44 +0200hgolden(~hgolden@2603-8000-9d00-3ed1-fc05-5499-f77c-fbe5.res6.spectrum.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-08-05 15:48:28 +0200danza(~francesco@151.19.233.154)
2023-08-05 15:49:04 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:b969:84de:9a89:14ad) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2023-08-05 15:50:27 +0200danza(~francesco@151.19.233.154) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-08-05 15:55:06 +0200arahael(~arahael@119-18-1-27.771201.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net)
2023-08-05 15:59:45 +0200mon_aaraj(~montchncs@2001:470:69fc:105::8e6b) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-08-05 15:59:45 +0200jmcantrell(~jmcantrel@user/jmcantrell) (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-08-05 15:59:45 +0200Haskman[m](~haskmanma@2001:470:69fc:105::3:8e5a) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-08-05 15:59:45 +0200Matthew|m(~arathorn@2001:470:69fc:105::1f) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-08-05 15:59:45 +0200paulapatience(~paulapati@2001:470:69fc:105::16a4) (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-08-05 15:59:45 +0200Null_A[m](~jasonjckn@2001:470:69fc:105::bb85) (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-08-05 15:59:45 +0200bgamari[m](~bgamari@2001:470:69fc:105::c7b9) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-08-05 15:59:45 +0200zebrag[m](~inkbottle@2001:470:69fc:105::2ff5) (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-08-05 15:59:45 +0200joyfulmantis[m](~joyfulman@2001:470:69fc:105::3:400a) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-08-05 15:59:45 +0200smichel17[m](~smichel17@2001:470:69fc:105::2d32) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-08-05 15:59:46 +0200fgaz(~fgaz@2001:470:69fc:105::842) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-08-05 15:59:46 +0200Guillaum[m](~guiboumat@2001:470:69fc:105::1:72ac) (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-08-05 15:59:46 +0200peddie(~peddie@2001:470:69fc:105::25d) (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-08-05 15:59:46 +0200ribosomerocker[m(~ribosomer@2001:470:69fc:105::3:8ac7) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-08-05 15:59:46 +0200ocharles[m](~ocharlesm@2001:470:69fc:105::3:5899) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-08-05 15:59:46 +0200adziahel(~adziahelm@2001:470:69fc:105::b4d) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-08-05 15:59:46 +0200boxscape[m](~jabruenma@2001:470:69fc:105::3:88e7) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-08-05 15:59:46 +0200JanusTroelsen[m](~janustmat@2001:470:69fc:105::3:7e89) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-08-05 15:59:46 +0200alexfmpe[m](~alexfmpem@2001:470:69fc:105::38ba) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-08-05 15:59:47 +0200deb776[m](~deb776ted@2001:470:69fc:105::3:84c5) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-08-05 15:59:47 +0200supersven[m](~supersven@2001:470:69fc:105::31b6) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-08-05 15:59:47 +0200RandomInt[m](~randomint@2001:470:69fc:105::3:852e) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-08-05 15:59:47 +0200xosdy[m](~xosdymozi@2001:470:69fc:105::2:63f7) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-08-05 15:59:47 +0200jade[m](~jade256th@2001:470:69fc:105::3:58df) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-08-05 16:00:09 +0200arahael(~arahael@119-18-1-27.771201.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2023-08-05 16:01:37 +0200Joao003(~Joao003@2804:840:8302:4000:fc75:9ae1:2fd9:2ce9)
2023-08-05 16:03:01 +0200Me-me(~me-me@user/me-me) (Quit: Disconnecting on purpose.)
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2023-08-05 20:42:40 +0200anselmschueler(~anselmsch@user/schuelermine)
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2023-08-05 20:50:18 +0200fun-safe-math(~fun-safe-@c-24-21-234-147.hsd1.or.comcast.net) ()
2023-08-05 20:59:19 +0200arahael(~arahael@119-18-1-27.771201.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net)
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2023-08-05 21:05:06 +0200 <dminuoso> Inst: I dont know about standard.
2023-08-05 21:05:18 +0200 <dminuoso> I think megaparsec/attoparsec are far more widely used.
2023-08-05 21:05:30 +0200 <dminuoso> Attoparsec is definitely not even close to C performance.
2023-08-05 21:06:10 +0200 <Inst> i had that misconception from old serpentine blog post
2023-08-05 21:06:17 +0200 <Inst> flatparse is potentially close to C performance
2023-08-05 21:07:02 +0200 <dminuoso> Yup, indeed.
2023-08-05 21:07:25 +0200 <dminuoso> But it requires a bit of additional care and core analysis to keep it that way.
2023-08-05 21:07:44 +0200 <dminuoso> The performance of flatparse is potentially only challenged by parsley.
2023-08-05 21:08:01 +0200 <dminuoso> parsley has even the potential to be faster.
2023-08-05 21:08:56 +0200 <dminuoso> However, in a bunch of experiments its currently not faster, which is presumably due to some bugs.
2023-08-05 21:09:17 +0200vglfr(~vglfr@cli-188-239-201-89.bbn.slav.dn.ua)
2023-08-05 21:11:59 +0200 <shapr> I hadn't heard of parsley : https://github.com/j-mie6/ParsleyHaskell
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2023-08-05 21:38:58 +0200 <oo_miguel> geekosaur: I did restart because A) I created two X screens during my experiments, and now reverted this B) I do not (yet) have a xmonad.hs in place
2023-08-05 21:39:11 +0200 <oo_miguel> sorry wrong chan
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2023-08-05 23:11:45 +0200libertyprime(~libertypr@203.96.203.44) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2023-08-05 23:11:57 +0200 <dsal> I keep feeling like I want something like "pure" for monoid. Is this a thing at all?
2023-08-05 23:12:44 +0200pavonia(~user@user/siracusa)
2023-08-05 23:13:06 +0200 <geekosaur> I'm not sure I even know what that would mean
2023-08-05 23:13:12 +0200 <ncf> :t mempty
2023-08-05 23:13:13 +0200 <lambdabot> Monoid a => a
2023-08-05 23:14:01 +0200 <ncf> Applicative is a kind of monoid, and pure corresponds to the unit (while <*> corresponds to <>)
2023-08-05 23:14:22 +0200 <ncf> did you mean something else?
2023-08-05 23:14:26 +0200 <geekosaur> I was thinking maybe Alternative
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2023-08-05 23:19:04 +0200 <dsal> Yeah, I was thinking about applicative. But basically stuff like (:[]), Set.singleton, const 1, etc...
2023-08-05 23:19:29 +0200 <Hecate> dsal: yep, that's mempty
2023-08-05 23:19:57 +0200 <dsal> No, not mempty. Monoid m => a -> m
2023-08-05 23:20:05 +0200 <dsal> Which is kind of a weird shape.
2023-08-05 23:20:56 +0200 <ncf> :t (:[])
2023-08-05 23:20:57 +0200 <lambdabot> a -> [a]
2023-08-05 23:21:02 +0200 <ncf> :t Data.Set.singleton
2023-08-05 23:21:03 +0200 <lambdabot> a -> S.Set a
2023-08-05 23:21:05 +0200 <ncf> :t const 1
2023-08-05 23:21:06 +0200 <lambdabot> Num a => b -> a
2023-08-05 23:21:10 +0200 <Hecate> dsal: question: what's the kind signature of m ?
2023-08-05 23:21:22 +0200 <ncf> :t const
2023-08-05 23:21:23 +0200 <lambdabot> a -> b -> a
2023-08-05 23:21:27 +0200nate2(~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2023-08-05 23:21:33 +0200 <ncf> (:[]), singleton and const all match the type of pure
2023-08-05 23:21:51 +0200 <dsal> Yeah, it looks like pure, but I just want a monoid.
2023-08-05 23:22:01 +0200 <mauke> :t (<$mempty)
2023-08-05 23:22:02 +0200 <lambdabot> (Functor f, Monoid (f b)) => a -> f a
2023-08-05 23:22:04 +0200 <Hecate> dsal: you want the m without the a ?
2023-08-05 23:22:18 +0200 <Hecate> and you want it polymorphic?
2023-08-05 23:22:47 +0200 <dsal> Hecate: Well, not exactly. I just want to be able to express `Monoid m => a -> m` which I can do for any specific monoid, but not in general.
2023-08-05 23:22:55 +0200 <dsal> :t foldMap
2023-08-05 23:22:56 +0200 <lambdabot> (Foldable t, Monoid m) => (a -> m) -> t a -> m
2023-08-05 23:22:59 +0200 <dsal> Kind of what happens here.
2023-08-05 23:23:15 +0200 <ncf> not all monoids have a sensible a -> m
2023-08-05 23:23:29 +0200 <dsal> Yeah, const is getting on the less sensible side.
2023-08-05 23:24:03 +0200 <dsal> This seems like something smaller than a monoid, but still a thing I run into occasionally.
2023-08-05 23:24:37 +0200 <ncf> do you have any example that's not satisfied by pure or mempty?
2023-08-05 23:24:56 +0200 <dsal> I've not actually considered pure.
2023-08-05 23:25:16 +0200Unicorn_Princess(~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-08-05 23:25:22 +0200 <Hecate> foldMap (const mempty) :: (Foldable t, Monoid m) => t a -> m
2023-08-05 23:25:30 +0200 <Hecate> dsal: ^ ?
2023-08-05 23:25:52 +0200 <ncf> weird way of spelling mempty
2023-08-05 23:26:05 +0200 <dsal> Heh. That's a sort of example of how this might work.
2023-08-05 23:26:19 +0200arahael(~arahael@119-18-1-27.771201.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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2023-08-05 23:26:25 +0200 <dsal> I don't actually have a useful example in front of me. Trying to think of the rough shape of where I've seen this.
2023-08-05 23:26:32 +0200 <ncf> > foldMap (const mempty) [0..10] :: Sum Int
2023-08-05 23:26:33 +0200 <lambdabot> Sum {getSum = 0}
2023-08-05 23:27:53 +0200 <Hecate> dsal: did we already suggest const mempty?
2023-08-05 23:28:24 +0200 <dsal> i just want it to do something kind of useful. e.g., if the monoid is a list, it should be (:[]). If it's a Set, it should be Set.singleton, etc...
2023-08-05 23:28:33 +0200 <dsal> It's not a zero value, it's a one value.
2023-08-05 23:29:08 +0200 <mauke> what if it's Sum Int?
2023-08-05 23:29:35 +0200 <dsal> const 1
2023-08-05 23:30:03 +0200 <ncf> what if it's Product Int?
2023-08-05 23:30:30 +0200 <dsal> Yeah, that's why it seems like it might be a smaller type than monoid. It wouldn't make sense for every Monoid.
2023-08-05 23:30:56 +0200 <Hecate> dsal: just create your own structure
2023-08-05 23:31:00 +0200 <Hecate> call it a dickoid or whatever
2023-08-05 23:31:08 +0200 <dsal> haha
2023-08-05 23:31:56 +0200 <Hecate> dsal: am I wrong though?
2023-08-05 23:32:00 +0200 <dsal> I'm mainly just wondering if anyone's done it because it seems somewhat useful. I also don't know names. What's a Monoid with a one value?
2023-08-05 23:32:11 +0200 <ncf> a ring?
2023-08-05 23:32:14 +0200 <Hecate> looks like you want most of the Monoid with an additional element?
2023-08-05 23:32:23 +0200 <ncf> or a semiring at least
2023-08-05 23:32:43 +0200 <ncf> but that excludes [a], so doesn't fit your requirements
2023-08-05 23:32:51 +0200 <ncf> i don't think there's anything to unify here...
2023-08-05 23:32:52 +0200 <Hecate> you want a non-identity element
2023-08-05 23:33:39 +0200 <Hecate> dsal: there is no concept of "one value", there's the neutral element and that's it
2023-08-05 23:34:11 +0200 <Hecate> either your element is neutral on the internal operation, or it's not
2023-08-05 23:34:31 +0200 <ncf> rings formalise "one" pretty well
2023-08-05 23:34:40 +0200 <geekosaur> sure there is or there wouldn't be a concept of "singleton"
2023-08-05 23:36:23 +0200 <Hecate> ah indeed, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom_of_pairing TIL
2023-08-05 23:36:57 +0200 <Hecate> dsal: there's this https://hackage.haskell.org/package/non-empty-0.3.3/docs/Data-NonEmpty-Class.html#t:Singleton
2023-08-05 23:37:00 +0200 <dsal> Yeah, the semiring thing looks like what I was thinking of, but a bit further constrained.
2023-08-05 23:37:04 +0200 <Hecate> but there is no Monoid superclass
2023-08-05 23:37:10 +0200nick4(~nick@2600:100d:b157:9ba6:217f:6f08:11ff:108d)
2023-08-05 23:37:12 +0200 <ncf> what does pairing have to do with this
2023-08-05 23:38:06 +0200 <Hecate> ncf: I read that the axiom of pairing justifies the existence a singleton {a} ∀ a
2023-08-05 23:38:42 +0200 <ncf> if you're doing set theory, sure
2023-08-05 23:39:00 +0200 <Hecate> that's what geekosaur is raising no?
2023-08-05 23:39:10 +0200 <Hecate> or are there other singletons that are of interest in our case?
2023-08-05 23:39:38 +0200 <Hecate> ncf: aren't we doing set theory from the beginning? Isn't monoid a set? :p
2023-08-05 23:40:17 +0200 <ncf> if your foundations are type theory then a monoid is a type
2023-08-05 23:40:45 +0200 <ncf> (and if your foundations are homotopy type theory you may want to constrain that type to be an h-set, but this does not have much to do with material set theory)
2023-08-05 23:41:14 +0200 <Hecate> ncf: wait, aren't types sets?
2023-08-05 23:41:29 +0200 <ncf> type theory stands on its own
2023-08-05 23:41:37 +0200 <ncf> you can interpret it in the category of sets if you like
2023-08-05 23:42:06 +0200 <ncf> see https://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/monoid+in+a+monoidal+category for the most general notion of a monoid
2023-08-05 23:42:33 +0200 <Hecate> < ncf> you can interpret it in the category of sets if you like // ah, TIL
2023-08-05 23:42:45 +0200 <Hecate> well, dsal, which category do you want your answer packed in? :p
2023-08-05 23:43:07 +0200 <dsal> Heh. I'm just a blue collar haskeller.
2023-08-05 23:43:16 +0200 <Hecate> dsal: high five
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