2023/05/12

2023-05-12 00:02:26 +0200alexherbo2(~alexherbo@2a02-842a-8180-4601-fc12-968e-5e2f-d273.rev.sfr.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-05-12 00:03:35 +0200alexherbo2(~alexherbo@2a02-842a-8180-4601-fc12-968e-5e2f-d273.rev.sfr.net)
2023-05-12 00:07:56 +0200evincar(~evincar@user/evincar)
2023-05-12 00:13:51 +0200megevedelyan
2023-05-12 00:16:02 +0200zeenk(~zeenk@2a02:2f04:a105:f00::7fe) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
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2023-05-12 00:17:02 +0200merijn(~merijn@86.86.29.250)
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2023-05-12 00:19:18 +0200falafel(~falafel@2603-8000-d700-115c-06e9-5265-747f-4f34.res6.spectrum.com)
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2023-05-12 00:27:50 +0200 <tusko> is haskell a lisp?
2023-05-12 00:28:19 +0200 <geekosaur> no
2023-05-12 00:33:50 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-236.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
2023-05-12 00:34:05 +0200jargon(~jargon@184.101.78.160)
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2023-05-12 00:35:08 +0200shapr(~user@76.29.230.19)
2023-05-12 00:37:59 +0200alexherbo2(~alexherbo@2a02-842a-8180-4601-fc12-968e-5e2f-d273.rev.sfr.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-05-12 00:38:28 +0200alexherbo2(~alexherbo@2a02-842a-8180-4601-fc12-968e-5e2f-d273.rev.sfr.net)
2023-05-12 00:40:32 +0200 <ski> there is/was Liskell, however
2023-05-12 00:40:56 +0200 <geekosaur[m]> Hrm
2023-05-12 00:42:05 +0200 <ski> @where liskell
2023-05-12 00:42:05 +0200 <lambdabot> a SExp syntax for Haskell, by therp : <http://clemens.endorphin.org/liskell> (broken),<https://web.archive.org/web/20081105133119/http://clemens.endorphin.org/liskell>,<http://clemens.endorphin.org/
2023-05-12 00:42:05 +0200 <lambdabot> ILC07-Liskell-draft.pdf>,<https://web.archive.org/web/20120609122549/http://www.liskell.org/>
2023-05-12 00:42:32 +0200 <ncf> or hackett
2023-05-12 00:42:44 +0200 <ski> right, i forget about that one
2023-05-12 00:47:14 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:11ad:4d6f:a0ef:a998)
2023-05-12 00:51:31 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:11ad:4d6f:a0ef:a998) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-05-12 00:55:31 +0200 <tusko> is Learn You a Haskell for Great Good a venerable text?
2023-05-12 00:59:01 +0200 <ddellacosta> it's been around a while and many still recommend it as a beginner's tutorial for Haskell, if that's what you mean
2023-05-12 00:59:56 +0200 <ski> it doesn't have exercises
2023-05-12 01:00:04 +0200 <ski> @where CIS194
2023-05-12 01:00:04 +0200 <lambdabot> <https://github.com/byorgey/haskell-course>,<https://www.seas.upenn.edu/~cis194/spring13/lectures.html>
2023-05-12 01:02:41 +0200 <tusko> Many blessings
2023-05-12 01:03:45 +0200 <ski> Haskell could be said to be in the ML tradition, with type inferenced FP
2023-05-12 01:04:32 +0200 <tusko> I wish I knew what that meant practically. What applications do you think the language is well suited to?
2023-05-12 01:04:48 +0200 <c_wraith> mostly programming
2023-05-12 01:05:41 +0200 <c_wraith> I mean, maybe you won't get fortran performance on numerical code, and maybe system UI libraries really aren't usable in a nice way.
2023-05-12 01:05:56 +0200 <c_wraith> But mostly Haskell is good for writing programs.
2023-05-12 01:08:12 +0200 <ski> type inferenced means that it's statically typed (reports type errors, before running program). the inference part means that you usually don't have to specify types of variables, parameters, functions. although, for documentation reasons, and to more easily narrow down errors, people usually specify types of functions
2023-05-12 01:12:01 +0200falafel(~falafel@2603-8000-d700-115c-06e9-5265-747f-4f34.res6.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-05-12 01:12:45 +0200caryhartline(~caryhartl@2600:1700:2d0:8d30:b59b:d427:e374:11eb) (Quit: caryhartline)
2023-05-12 01:13:46 +0200caryhartline(~caryhartl@2600:1700:2d0:8d30:c4fd:519c:c524:bc7c)
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2023-05-12 01:16:55 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
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2023-05-12 01:23:15 +0200 <yin> tomsmeding: i thought this looked familiar!
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2023-05-12 08:16:11 +0200leohoo_sdu[m](~leohoosdu@2001:470:69fc:105::3:56ef) ()
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2023-05-12 12:54:02 +0200zer0bitz(~zer0bitz@user/zer0bitz)
2023-05-12 12:56:16 +0200 <miguelnegrao> Hi. Has anyone ever seen the following function ?
2023-05-12 12:56:22 +0200 <miguelnegrao> catMaybes' :: [Maybe a] -> Maybe [a]
2023-05-12 12:56:26 +0200 <miguelnegrao> catMaybes' [] = Nothing
2023-05-12 12:56:26 +0200jmdaemon(~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-05-12 12:56:31 +0200 <miguelnegrao> catMaybes' xs = Just $ catMaybes xs
2023-05-12 12:57:01 +0200titibandit(~titibandi@user/titibandit)
2023-05-12 12:57:26 +0200 <miguelnegrao> I have a use case for it, FRP related... just wondering if it is a known thing. hoogle doesn't find it.
2023-05-12 12:58:25 +0200 <jackdk> miguelnegrao: what do you imagine this function does for nonempty lists?
2023-05-12 12:58:50 +0200 <jackdk> oh, I see.
2023-05-12 12:59:57 +0200 <jackdk> > :t Data.List.NonEmpty.nonEmpty . catMaybes
2023-05-12 12:59:59 +0200 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:1: error: parse error on input ‘:’
2023-05-12 13:00:12 +0200 <jackdk> % :t Data.List.NonEmpty.nonEmpty . catMaybes
2023-05-12 13:00:12 +0200 <yahb2> <interactive>:1:31: error: ; Variable not in scope: catMaybes :: a -> [a1]
2023-05-12 13:00:31 +0200 <jackdk> % :t Data.List.NonEmpty.nonEmpty . Data.Maybe.catMaybes
2023-05-12 13:00:31 +0200 <yahb2> Data.List.NonEmpty.nonEmpty . Data.Maybe.catMaybes ; :: forall {a}. [Maybe a] -> Maybe (GHC.Base.NonEmpty a)
2023-05-12 13:00:52 +0200 <jackdk> miguelnegrao: That one^ you also get a proof that the list is nonempty after it's been checked
2023-05-12 13:01:01 +0200 <maerwald> those are two completely different things
2023-05-12 13:01:22 +0200 <jackdk> oh it is. It's late here.
2023-05-12 13:02:11 +0200 <maerwald> but indeed 'NonEmpty a -> [a]' is more conenient imo
2023-05-12 13:02:30 +0200 <maerwald> Nonempty (Maybe a) -> [a] rather
2023-05-12 13:03:08 +0200 <maerwald> I find such ad-hoc handling of empty list cases a bit difficult
2023-05-12 13:03:28 +0200Gurkenglas(~user@dynamic-046-114-179-231.46.114.pool.telefonica.de)
2023-05-12 13:03:47 +0200 <maerwald> (but I don't know anything about FRP)
2023-05-12 13:09:00 +0200 <miguelnegrao> So in FRP a Maybe a represents an event. The situation here is merging events from a list of event emmiters. If any of them sent an event we have an event, if none of them sent and event we don't have an event. If some of them sent an event, the resulting event is a list of all events emmited.
2023-05-12 13:09:46 +0200 <miguelnegrao> So I really have to use Maybe because all the FRP functions expect that
2023-05-12 13:12:23 +0200werneta(~werneta@70-142-214-115.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-05-12 13:12:28 +0200glguy_(~glguy@libera/staff-emeritus/glguy) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-05-12 13:12:44 +0200 <[Leary]> miguelnegrao: Then isn't `catMaybes' [Nothing] = Just []` wrong? I think you actually want what jackdk wrote.
2023-05-12 13:13:04 +0200glguy(~glguy@libera/staff-emeritus/glguy)
2023-05-12 13:13:34 +0200 <miguelnegrao> It is true that I could just do `Just . catMaybes` and the result wouldn't be very different. This way the result is always an event emitted, but which might carry 0 subevents, so to say.
2023-05-12 13:14:17 +0200 <miguelnegrao> @Leary ah, I think you are right
2023-05-12 13:14:17 +0200 <lambdabot> https://wiki.haskell.org/Learning_Haskell
2023-05-12 13:16:24 +0200 <miguelnegrao> I wanted this one
2023-05-12 13:16:29 +0200 <miguelnegrao> catMaybes' xs = case catMaybes xs of
2023-05-12 13:16:31 +0200 <miguelnegrao> [] -> Nothing
2023-05-12 13:16:33 +0200 <miguelnegrao> xs -> Just xs
2023-05-12 13:17:16 +0200jespada(~jespada@cpc121308-nmal25-2-0-cust15.19-2.cable.virginm.net)
2023-05-12 13:17:44 +0200 <miguelnegrao> But Data.List.NonEmpty.nonEmpty . Data.Maybe.catMaybes seems nice too, thanks.
2023-05-12 13:20:29 +0200constanzes_top_g(~username@2600:1700:4010:6d20:3ac8:39ef:d386:119b)
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2023-05-12 13:59:07 +0200constanzesamalie(~username@2600:1700:4010:6d20:3ac8:39ef:d386:119b) ()
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2023-05-12 14:54:45 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
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2023-05-12 15:31:22 +0200 <absence> is there a convenient way to specify the type when using OverloadedRecordDot, and (.fieldname) gives me a "cannot deduce HasField..." error? i was thinking something like (.fieldname @MyRecord) but that's a parse error
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2023-05-12 15:38:41 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus)
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2023-05-12 16:00:14 +0200shapr```shapr
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2023-05-12 16:18:05 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: Exeunt: personae.ai-integration.biz)
2023-05-12 16:19:10 +0200 <merijn> hmm
2023-05-12 16:19:34 +0200 <merijn> I added -ddump-splices and -dumpdir to my cabal.project, but I can't find any actual directory with the splices
2023-05-12 16:20:07 +0200 <merijn> oh, wait, it's dumping them relative to the cabal file, not the cabal.project
2023-05-12 16:21:50 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@143.244.47.84) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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2023-05-12 16:29:49 +0200 <merijn> I don't suppose there's an easy way to disable a warning for a whole bunch of modules at once?
2023-05-12 16:30:45 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@user/cfricke) (Quit: WeeChat 3.8)
2023-05-12 16:31:04 +0200 <geekosaur> aside from chucking it into `ghc-options`, no
2023-05-12 16:31:11 +0200ft(~ft@p4fc2a88b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2023-05-12 16:31:40 +0200 <merijn> geekosaur: Yeah, but I don't want to disable it everywhere
2023-05-12 16:31:53 +0200 <geekosaur> I figured as much
2023-05-12 16:31:58 +0200 <merijn> persistent's TH is just generating code with name-shadowing warnings
2023-05-12 16:32:07 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@143.244.47.84)
2023-05-12 16:32:20 +0200 <merijn> And I'd like to silence those, but I don't want to manually add that warning flag to like, 50+ modules ;_;
2023-05-12 16:34:32 +0200 <merijn> I don't suppose there's a way to set warnings for TH generated code either
2023-05-12 16:34:56 +0200 <geekosaur> nope. nor for regional control. ;_;
2023-05-12 16:36:31 +0200 <merijn> bah
2023-05-12 16:37:00 +0200 <merijn> Now I'm stuck with, like, 100+ warnings I can't reasonably disable until upstream is fixed ;_;
2023-05-12 16:39:51 +0200CalculusCats(NyaaTheKit@user/calculuscat)
2023-05-12 16:46:42 +0200shriekingnoise(~shrieking@186.137.175.87)
2023-05-12 16:57:02 +0200bli2ss(~quassel@190.78.156.89.rev.sfr.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-05-12 16:58:56 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo)
2023-05-12 17:06:45 +0200 <merijn> geekosaur: Looks like it might be easier to fix the upstream bug then find out how to silence the errors xD
2023-05-12 17:07:07 +0200 <geekosaur> yeh, I was wondering if the easier solution was forking upstream 🙂
2023-05-12 17:07:20 +0200barcisz(~barcisz@79.191.229.20.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl) (Quit: Connection closed)
2023-05-12 17:07:26 +0200 <merijn> hmm...still some errors...
2023-05-12 17:07:44 +0200 <geekosaur> I mean TH already has support for generating new names that can't shadow or capture
2023-05-12 17:07:59 +0200 <merijn> geekosaur: Yeah I think I already fixed it
2023-05-12 17:08:55 +0200 <merijn> geekosaur: It's basically one loop where it uses the same Name for the field and the field pattern, so I just wrapped a newName around the variable and hopefully that works
2023-05-12 17:16:06 +0200 <merijn> https://github.com/yesodweb/persistent/pull/1494/files
2023-05-12 17:16:07 +0200pyook(~puke@user/puke) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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2023-05-12 17:25:02 +0200user____1(~user@dynamic-046-114-179-231.46.114.pool.telefonica.de)
2023-05-12 17:30:04 +0200 <merijn> Wait, what
2023-05-12 17:30:11 +0200 <merijn> mtl doesn't work with GHC 9.0?
2023-05-12 17:31:45 +0200 <maerwald> what?
2023-05-12 17:31:54 +0200 <maerwald> mtl is a boot package
2023-05-12 17:32:31 +0200 <merijn> maerwald: mtl 2.3.1 has build-depends base <4.15 || >= 4.16
2023-05-12 17:32:43 +0200 <merijn> So 4.15, is excluded
2023-05-12 17:33:01 +0200 <maerwald> I see... good riddance anyway
2023-05-12 17:33:22 +0200 <maerwald> 9.0 is mostly a useless release
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2023-05-12 18:58:45 +0200telser[m](~telsermat@2001:470:69fc:105::3:5968)
2023-05-12 19:01:27 +0200sm1sm
2023-05-12 19:02:08 +0200caryhartline(~caryhartl@2600:1700:2d0:8d30:cc57:9e7b:80a:e79c)
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2023-05-12 19:05:15 +0200strugglingCrab(~strugglin@2a02:a03f:acfa:b800:e7a4:5ce1:a85:e813)
2023-05-12 19:05:41 +0200 <strugglingCrab> why is there a class for Foldable but not for Unfoldable? working with trees right now and the notion of unfold seems to me just as useful as the notion of fold
2023-05-12 19:08:03 +0200 <[exa]> you typically unfold a function of type (a -> (b,a)), which doesn't make a very interesting typeclass
2023-05-12 19:08:22 +0200 <c_wraith> You could use the recursion-schemes package. It's a more principled approach to both folding and unfolding
2023-05-12 19:09:09 +0200 <[exa]> +1 ^, if the unfold is properly specified with a recursion scheme, it makes sense
2023-05-12 19:10:42 +0200Sauvin(~sauvin@user/Sauvin)
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2023-05-12 19:18:45 +0200 <fr33domlover> o/ I've seen 2 implementations of type-level `elem` (that produces a Constraint), one of them using a class and the other a closed type family of type Constraint. Is there a difference? Alternatively, why is AllF needed in sop-core: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/sop-core-0.5.0.2/docs/Data-SOP-Constraint.html#t:All
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2023-05-12 19:44:10 +0200fr33domlovertests in GHC, looks like it works with a closed type family, so no need for a typeclass unless a (value level) method is needed, I suppose
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2023-05-12 19:52:53 +0200shapr``(~user@76.29.230.19)
2023-05-12 19:53:31 +0200 <geekosaur> afaik typeclasses and type families should just be two equivalent ways of doing the same thing
2023-05-12 19:54:16 +0200 <geekosaur> closed type families do give you one thing typeclasses don't, by virtue of being closed so nobody can create "surprising" instances
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2023-05-12 20:09:06 +0200cheater(~Username@user/cheater) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-05-12 20:09:17 +0200 <johnw> type families don't do "instance resolution", they are just functions at the type level, right?
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2023-05-12 20:10:36 +0200ub(~Thunderbi@p548c8bbe.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2023-05-12 20:12:43 +0200 <int-e> johnw: Note though that matching type family instance left-hand sides is very similar to matching heads of class instances.
2023-05-12 20:12:54 +0200ububert
2023-05-12 20:13:06 +0200 <int-e> hmm
2023-05-12 20:13:34 +0200coot(~coot@89-69-206-216.dynamic.chello.pl) (Quit: coot)
2023-05-12 20:16:28 +0200coot(~coot@89-69-206-216.dynamic.chello.pl)
2023-05-12 20:17:27 +0200 <ncf> what's a type family instance?
2023-05-12 20:18:03 +0200cheater_(~Username@user/cheater)
2023-05-12 20:18:31 +0200 <geekosaur> https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/9.6.1/docs/users_guide/exts/type_families.html#type-instance-dec…
2023-05-12 20:19:43 +0200 <int-e> ncf: "type instance Foo () = Bool" <-- the word "instance" appears here.
2023-05-12 20:20:38 +0200 <int-e> Another similarity is that type families are open (closed ones exist as an additional extension).
2023-05-12 20:21:34 +0200cheater(~Username@user/cheater) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2023-05-12 20:21:38 +0200cheater_cheater
2023-05-12 20:25:19 +0200 <ncf> isn't there also a mechanism to declare an associated type as part of a typeclass?
2023-05-12 20:28:34 +0200 <fr33domlover> ncf: Yes, an associated type family. `class C a where type F a` etc.
2023-05-12 20:31:28 +0200 <int-e> it's still a type family (it could exist separately from the class, but the compiler restricts how you define instances for it)
2023-05-12 20:32:21 +0200emmanuelux(~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux)
2023-05-12 20:32:32 +0200 <int-e> (And it enforces that the type instance lhs equals the class instance head. So not only are they similar, there's actually a language feature built on the fact that they are basically the same.)
2023-05-12 20:37:24 +0200 <ski> modulo FDs
2023-05-12 20:38:18 +0200 <int-e> true
2023-05-12 20:42:42 +0200 <ncf> i mean, could you emulate/desugar "standalone" open type families by wrapping them in their own typeclass?
2023-05-12 20:43:22 +0200 <int-e> With an associated type? Yes, I think you can.
2023-05-12 20:43:30 +0200 <dolio> You probably could, but it makes more sense to do the opposite, which is essentially what happens.
2023-05-12 20:43:45 +0200 <int-e> It'll be more typing for no benefit.
2023-05-12 20:44:06 +0200 <ncf> the benefit is the number of concepts to worry about
2023-05-12 20:44:11 +0200 <int-e> (I mean the mechanical hitting of keys on the keyboard.)
2023-05-12 20:45:03 +0200 <dolio> It'll be negative benefit, because it ensures that every definition of one type by cases on others is required to also be associated to a(n empty) record of value level definitions.
2023-05-12 20:45:53 +0200titibandit(~titibandi@user/titibandit)
2023-05-12 20:49:39 +0200 <johnw> int-e: another difference is that type class instance resolution choosing a function to call at runtime, whereas a type family chooses a type to be used at compile time
2023-05-12 20:50:13 +0200 <johnw> (although, both happen at compile time, of course)
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2023-05-12 21:38:02 +0200 <dminuoso> johnw: Not necessarily and not in practice either.
2023-05-12 21:38:56 +0200 <dminuoso> While there is specialization and you can forcibly expose all unfoldings, polymorphic bindings across packages are (usually) not monomorphized
2023-05-12 21:39:27 +0200 <dminuoso> And arguably, the dict passing mechanism in core directly reflects on this
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2023-05-12 23:32:37 +0200 <dsal> What's the Expr thing lambdabot has, again?
2023-05-12 23:33:06 +0200takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-05-12 23:33:17 +0200 <ncf> :t a
2023-05-12 23:33:18 +0200 <lambdabot> Expr
2023-05-12 23:33:36 +0200 <ncf> :i Expr
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2023-05-12 23:34:39 +0200zer0bitz(~zer0bitz@user/zer0bitz)
2023-05-12 23:34:51 +0200 <dsal> I mean what's the package? I was trying to use it in a pm and couldn't do the thing I wanted.
2023-05-12 23:35:18 +0200 <dsal> someone was asking how `a & f & g & h` evaluates, and I was hoping I could just ask lambdabot to expand it, but it doesn't like that.
2023-05-12 23:35:27 +0200 <geekosaur> simple-reflect
2023-05-12 23:36:12 +0200 <dsal> Thanks.
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