2023/01/29

2023-01-29 00:02:55 +0100freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.170)
2023-01-29 00:04:52 +0100Alex_test(~al_test@178.34.160.228)
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2023-01-29 00:06:29 +0100manwithluck(~manwithlu@194.177.28.192) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2023-01-29 00:10:35 +0100haritz(~hrtz@82-69-11-11.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk)
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2023-01-29 00:56:32 +0100fut(~futar@129.234.0.191)
2023-01-29 00:57:00 +0100fut(~futar@129.234.0.191) ()
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2023-01-29 01:03:54 +0100freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.170)
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2023-01-29 01:26:08 +0100freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.170)
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2023-01-29 02:50:55 +0100freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.170) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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2023-01-29 03:04:16 +0100freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.170)
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2023-01-29 03:29:22 +0100jimmy2shoots(~igloo@071-085-131-232.res.spectrum.com)
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2023-01-29 06:18:20 +0100KM4MBGjackhill[m]
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2023-01-29 09:05:06 +0100foul_owl(~kerry@71.212.143.88) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2023-01-29 09:06:08 +0100 <Inst_> [exa] I can't run pkg-config
2023-01-29 09:06:22 +0100 <Inst_> ehhh, back to being depressed about Haskell
2023-01-29 09:06:42 +0100 <Inst_> working with a Clojurist who's happy working in Python, especially since Python being bad makes him money when he's hired to clean up
2023-01-29 09:06:55 +0100 <Inst_> I literally can't get the Haskell cleaner than the Python version
2023-01-29 09:14:08 +0100myxokeph(~myxokeph@cpe-65-28-251-121.cinci.res.rr.com) (Quit: myxokeph)
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2023-01-29 09:23:29 +0100FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Killed (NickServ (Forcing logout FinnElija -> finn_elija)))
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2023-01-29 09:56:58 +0100Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2023-01-29 10:00:51 +0100jmdaemon(~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2023-01-29 10:17:25 +0100 <sm> darn.. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/pager, or terminfo, is not well supported on windows
2023-01-29 10:24:02 +0100wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) (Quit: Leaving)
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2023-01-29 11:35:38 +0100jtza8(~user@165.255.34.21)
2023-01-29 11:38:14 +0100 <Inst_> GHCI will not spark, right?
2023-01-29 11:38:23 +0100Inst_Inst
2023-01-29 11:38:28 +0100gqplox[m](~gqploxmat@2001:470:69fc:105::2:d10d)
2023-01-29 11:38:55 +0100 <Inst> In informal benchmarks I've done with GHCI, I don't see any performance improvements
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2023-01-29 11:43:41 +0100 <Inst> also, is a vector of vectors a bad idea in Haskell?
2023-01-29 11:43:56 +0100 <Inst> like, I can have a vector containing vectors that are 3 elements long, 8 elements long
2023-01-29 11:44:02 +0100 <Inst> am I going to end up recreating the vector if I do this?
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2023-01-29 14:00:34 +0100 <[exa]> Inst: what is the python vs haskell problem btw?
2023-01-29 14:02:47 +0100biberu(~biberu@user/biberu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-01-29 14:03:11 +0100 <[exa]> Inst: anyway, re that package and pkg-config -- you're hitting windows tooling problems, mostly because windows tooling just sucks at a level that is absolutely incomparable to anything sane, and only very limited amount of people are willing to deal with that. And these might not really include the cpython package devs (and I think their decision would be the reasonable one). Just go for WSL. :]
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2023-01-29 15:49:57 +0100 <h2017> hi
2023-01-29 15:50:06 +0100 <geekosaur> hello
2023-01-29 15:50:37 +0100 <h2017> hi've been reading worrying things about haskell's decline in popularity? how worried should i be as someone who wants to create thing in haskell?
2023-01-29 15:51:35 +0100 <h2017> someone who wants to create things in haskell but doesn't necessarily want to invest if haskell is going to stop being a thing
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2023-01-29 15:54:09 +0100simendsjo(~user@84.211.91.241)
2023-01-29 15:54:37 +0100 <geekosaur[m]> Pandoc isn't going away
2023-01-29 15:55:48 +0100 <geekosaur[m]> I know Facebook just retired their Haskell based spam detector but they also have a new Haskell project
2023-01-29 15:56:55 +0100 <geekosaur[m]> That article you saw on Reddit didn't tell the whole story
2023-01-29 15:58:20 +0100Unicorn_Princess(~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542)
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2023-01-29 16:30:06 +0100Midjak(~Midjak@82.66.147.146)
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2023-01-29 16:37:10 +0100 <gqplox[m]> I'm looking to build a terminal app
2023-01-29 16:37:35 +0100 <gqplox[m]> Is there something to haskell as rich to python, or bubble tea to go?
2023-01-29 16:38:21 +0100 <geekosaur> brick?
2023-01-29 16:39:21 +0100 <geekosaur> or or vty for the underlying TUI implementation
2023-01-29 16:45:27 +0100 <gqplox[m]> Ah nice, thank you
2023-01-29 16:45:48 +0100 <maerwald> gqplox[m]: doesn't support windows though
2023-01-29 16:46:46 +0100 <gqplox[m]> Would you recommend haskell for this? Im learning both haskell and rust atm and I want to make a terminal app which will also interact with an sqlite3 database. Which do you think would be better
2023-01-29 16:46:58 +0100 <gqplox[m]> Ah thanks, good to know. I use mac so I should be fine there
2023-01-29 16:49:12 +0100 <geekosaur> honestly I think I'd say try both. we do have sqlite-simple, or various weird type level sql interfaces that I don't really recommend because type level's just a pain in Haskell
2023-01-29 17:03:01 +0100simendsjo(~user@84.211.91.241) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2023-01-29 17:04:54 +0100 <[exa]> gqplox[m]: btw any hint on what the terminal app is about? that might make the correct decision much easier
2023-01-29 17:05:17 +0100 <gqplox[m]> Do you know the app Anki?
2023-01-29 17:05:39 +0100 <gqplox[m]> It will be a terminal version of that, but with limited scope
2023-01-29 17:06:02 +0100 <gqplox[m]> Basically a simple flashcard app, where the front and back will be plaintext/markdown (so i need to show italic, bold, bullet points etc to the terminal)
2023-01-29 17:07:06 +0100 <[exa]> ah yes brick + sqlite-simple should be perfect for that
2023-01-29 17:07:23 +0100 <[exa]> I'd expect most problems with rendering the markdown to the terminal but there might be another library for doing that
2023-01-29 17:09:07 +0100 <sm> pandoc can render to txt, though it's a huge dependency
2023-01-29 17:10:06 +0100 <[exa]> ah nice, this should do https://hackage.haskell.org/package/brick-0.65/docs/Brick-Markup.html
2023-01-29 17:10:37 +0100 <[exa]> and yeah, I guess there should be a more lightweight markdown parser than pandoc out there
2023-01-29 17:10:48 +0100 <geekosaur> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hascard might be something to look at for inspiration
2023-01-29 17:11:19 +0100 <gqplox[m]> Rich is very nice for python, for example here is about 5 lines of code, it has a Markdown class to render and a table class for showing to the terminal
2023-01-29 17:11:20 +0100 <gqplox[m]> https://imgur.com/a/LSThHi9
2023-01-29 17:11:40 +0100 <gqplox[m]> I would want to do it in haskell just to improve my skills
2023-01-29 17:11:49 +0100 <gqplox[m]> But something similar to that
2023-01-29 17:11:57 +0100 <gqplox[m]> Ah thanks, il l look at that
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2023-01-29 19:36:46 +0100 <Jadeitits[m]> I'm doing some trying-out with dependent types and I have a type family `(>)` which is essentially a comparison between two `Nat`s.
2023-01-29 19:36:46 +0100 <Jadeitits[m]> How can I incorporate this into the signature of `Cons :: forall (n :: Nat) (s :: Nat) (t :: Nat). SNat n -> Sorted s t -> Sorted ('S s) n` to statically ensure the vector is sorted in ascending order?
2023-01-29 19:37:15 +0100elevenkb(~elevenkb@105.184.125.233)
2023-01-29 19:37:26 +0100tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2023-01-29 19:37:47 +0100 <Jadeitits[m]> right now the vectors second type parameter just "stores" the value of the latest value and I was wondering how to use this to verify a new value is bigger than it
2023-01-29 19:41:50 +0100freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.170)
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2023-01-29 19:52:16 +0100 <[exa]> Jadeitits[m]: depends on your (>) probably. What does it "return" ?
2023-01-29 19:53:42 +0100 <Jadeitits[m]> Bool
2023-01-29 19:53:53 +0100 <Jadeitits[m]> type family (>) (x :: Nat) (y :: Nat) :: Bool where
2023-01-29 19:53:53 +0100 <Jadeitits[m]> 'Z > _ = 'False
2023-01-29 19:53:53 +0100 <Jadeitits[m]> _ > 'Z = 'True
2023-01-29 19:53:53 +0100 <Jadeitits[m]> ('S x) > ('S y) = x > y
2023-01-29 19:55:13 +0100 <[exa]> ok so you need to patternmatch on the Bool so that you can (somehow) convert the 'False to a typelevel failure
2023-01-29 19:56:11 +0100 <[exa]> (on a side note, MPTCs might be much better for failing at typelevel)
2023-01-29 19:56:28 +0100 <Jadeitits[m]> [exa]: What would that roughly look like?
2023-01-29 19:56:37 +0100 <Jadeitits[m]> [exa]: I don't know what this means
2023-01-29 19:56:44 +0100 <[exa]> multiparameter type classes
2023-01-29 19:56:53 +0100 <Jadeitits[m]> how does it work?
2023-01-29 19:57:03 +0100 <[exa]> you know how normal typeclasses work?
2023-01-29 19:57:17 +0100elkcl(~elkcl@broadband-37-110-27-252.ip.moscow.rt.ru)
2023-01-29 19:57:29 +0100 <Jadeitits[m]> yes
2023-01-29 19:58:44 +0100 <[exa]> ok, so multiparameter ones just have more parameters. Which is nice because you can easily use that for typelevel programming (just as type families), but typeclasses additionally have a "nice" form of failing (instance doesn't exist)
2023-01-29 19:59:01 +0100 <Jadeitits[m]> mhm ok
2023-01-29 19:59:05 +0100 <[exa]> MPTC programming is basically a restricted prolog, the best tutorial is ironically this one: https://aphyr.com/posts/342-typing-the-technical-interview
2023-01-29 19:59:37 +0100 <Jadeitits[m]> Thank you
2023-01-29 19:59:50 +0100 <[exa]> anyway, with type families I kinda guess you might make it work by making a "check the type" function
2023-01-29 20:00:06 +0100 <[exa]> hand-wavy example:
2023-01-29 20:01:47 +0100 <[exa]> type family CheckNumbersAreReallyBigger (smaller::Nat) (bigger::Nat) t :: t where { (bigger > smaller) ~ 'False = t }
2023-01-29 20:02:04 +0100 <[exa]> not sure if ghc won't complain about a partial type family tho
2023-01-29 20:03:35 +0100 <Jadeitits[m]> `error: Not in scope: type variable 't'`
2023-01-29 20:03:50 +0100 <Jadeitits[m]> hmm, isn't it defined in the signature above?
2023-01-29 20:03:53 +0100briandaed(~briandaed@185.234.210.211) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-01-29 20:04:03 +0100 <[exa]> I guess you may need to add a kind to it with ::
2023-01-29 20:04:18 +0100 <Jadeitits[m]> t :: *?
2023-01-29 20:04:24 +0100 <[exa]> (I didn't really touch type families for like a year now, hoping others might intervene :D )
2023-01-29 20:04:27 +0100 <[exa]> yes
2023-01-29 20:04:33 +0100 <Jadeitits[m]> same error
2023-01-29 20:04:36 +0100 <Lears> Can't you just do `Cons :: (t > n) ~ 'True => ...`?
2023-01-29 20:05:27 +0100 <[exa]> ah wait I didn't actually patternmatch there
2023-01-29 20:05:37 +0100 <[exa]> my fail, sorry
2023-01-29 20:11:09 +0100h2017(~h2017@bras-base-clbaon0201w-grc-68-174-95-130-177.dsl.bell.ca) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2023-01-29 20:11:27 +0100danza(~francesco@151.57.99.247) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2023-01-29 20:11:58 +0100 <[exa]> kinda wondering, is there even a way to force * ~ * check in a type family instance?
2023-01-29 20:14:19 +0100Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus)
2023-01-29 20:15:07 +0100 <Jadeitits[m]> <Lears> "Can't you just do `Cons :: (t..." <- This worked!
2023-01-29 20:15:25 +0100Jadeitits[m]uploaded an image: (25KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/CrzjRWsZBsBQDOcgpYNVhNgk/image.png >
2023-01-29 20:15:25 +0100 <Jadeitits[m]> Very cool, this seems to be very powerful
2023-01-29 20:15:27 +0100 <ddellacosta> let me know if this would be better for a nix channel, but wondering if anyone has a fix for the error "LICENSE: copyFile: does not exist (No such file or directory)" when running 'nix build' (with a flake based on this https://magnus.therning.org/2022-03-13-simple-nix-flake-for-haskell-development.html), even when my license file clearly exists as specified by my cabal file
2023-01-29 20:15:45 +0100enoq(~enoq@2a05:1141:1f5:5600:b9c9:721a:599:bfe7)
2023-01-29 20:16:18 +0100 <ddellacosta> looks same as this, but my project is pretty vanilla without any subdirs https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/42550
2023-01-29 20:16:39 +0100 <ddellacosta> (so that workaround doesn't make any sense for me)
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