IRCBrowse

2023/01/11

2023-01-11 00:02:08 +0100takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be)
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2023-01-11 01:40:25 +0100zeenk(~zeenk@2a02:2f04:a110:ac00::fba) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
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2023-01-11 02:01:31 +0100 <maralorn> Huh, the stackage nightly rss feed tells me, that 2023-01-11 dropped bascilly all packages from nightly. e.g. text.
2023-01-11 02:02:52 +0100username236oldfashionedcow
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2023-01-11 03:08:10 +0100 <sm> maralorn: strange, https://www.stackage.org/diff/nightly-2023-01-10/nightly-2023-01-11 doesn't show that
2023-01-11 03:13:03 +0100Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2023-01-11 05:33:25 +0100 <talismanick> How best to apply a function (like `dropWhile isSpace`) to the front and back of `t :: Text`?
2023-01-11 05:34:44 +0100 <mauke> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/text-2.0.1/docs/Data-Text.html#v:strip
2023-01-11 05:35:07 +0100 <talismanick> mauke: ah, thanks
2023-01-11 05:35:15 +0100 <talismanick> haven't seen `droupAround` before
2023-01-11 05:35:31 +0100finsternis(~X@23.226.237.192)
2023-01-11 05:37:23 +0100 <talismanick> Is there a class which lets you write "do something to the start and end" for arbitrary finite containers?
2023-01-11 05:37:39 +0100 <talismanick> like a double-zipper of sorts
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2023-01-11 05:49:34 +0100 <glguy> talismanick: no, probably not
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2023-01-11 09:09:27 +0100mastarija(~mastarija@188.252.197.182)
2023-01-11 09:10:19 +0100 <mastarija> Am I carzy, or does a function like this really doesn't exist? `ToJSONKey a => a -> Key`
2023-01-11 09:11:21 +0100nonzen(~nonzen@user/nonzen) (Quit: Gone)
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2023-01-11 09:19:34 +0100 <freeside> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/aeson-2.1.1.0/docs/src/Data.Aeson.Types.ToJSON.html#line-1829
2023-01-11 09:23:37 +0100scoopahdoopah(~quassel@050-089-109-059.res.spectrum.com) (Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
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2023-01-11 09:26:33 +0100titibandit1(~titibandi@xdsl-87-78-235-220.nc.de)
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2023-01-11 09:47:38 +0100 <Athas> Amusing problem: I get 'failed to create OS thread: Cannot allocate memory' when launching my Haskell program. This is because the program is built to start one Haskell thread for every core, and this machine apparently has 256 of those.
2023-01-11 09:48:42 +0100mizlan(~mizlan@2607:f010:2a7:1005:ac8b:dc79:8fea:7078)
2023-01-11 09:49:29 +0100 <merijn> Athas: Nice, also, bad habit :p
2023-01-11 09:50:20 +0100 <merijn> A colleague ran a bunch of benchmarks on, like, 64 core machines (admittedly almost a decade ago now) where after 20-30ish capabilities things had quite some overhead
2023-01-11 09:52:22 +0100 <Athas> Well, is there a sensible way of handling this? I just use '+RTS -N', which launches a systems thread per core.
2023-01-11 09:53:00 +0100 <Athas> This machine only lets me map 64GiB of virtual memory, and apparently that is not enough for 256 GHC threads.
2023-01-11 09:53:38 +0100 <Athas> I can just hardcode it to a lower limit - it's unlikely this Haskell program will scale beyond say 16 threads - but that seems hacky.
2023-01-11 09:54:12 +0100 <freeside> 640K ought to be enough for anybody.
2023-01-11 09:54:31 +0100 <merijn> Athas: you can control -N from code
2023-01-11 09:54:44 +0100 <merijn> getNumProcessors + setNumCapabilities
2023-01-11 09:55:04 +0100 <merijn> add some sensible logic in between those to do, like "max(32, actual)" :p
2023-01-11 09:56:23 +0100 <merijn> Athas: Does it run with -N1 or does it run out of virtual memory then too?
2023-01-11 09:57:16 +0100machinedgod(~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net)
2023-01-11 09:57:26 +0100panovia(~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!)
2023-01-11 09:58:58 +0100 <Athas> merijn: works fine up to about -N140.
2023-01-11 09:59:14 +0100 <Athas> It's not a particularly mysterious problem.
2023-01-11 09:59:50 +0100eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:ac96:e33a:7cce:aea0) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-01-11 10:00:47 +0100 <mauke> Athas: `+RTS -maxN16`
2023-01-11 10:01:43 +0100 <Athas> mauke: ah, that's nice. It also means users can override that with their own RTS options, which would not be the case if I just added my own logic in Haskell code.
2023-01-11 10:04:40 +0100 <mauke> assuming you compile with -rtsopts=all
2023-01-11 10:05:02 +0100 <Athas> I compile with plain -rtsopts, but I haven o reason to be stingy with them.
2023-01-11 10:06:42 +0100coot(~coot@2a02:a310:e241:1b00:ec1a:e9df:79ac:66ba) (Quit: coot)
2023-01-11 10:07:42 +0100earthy(~arthurvl@2a02-a469-f5e2-1-ba27-ebff-fea0-40b0.fixed6.kpn.net)
2023-01-11 10:08:22 +0100 <mastarija> When dealing with parsers, I want to mapM a parser over a list of string, is there a standard way to collect all the results that have succeeded and drop the failures?
2023-01-11 10:08:49 +0100 <mastarija> Somehing like `collect :: t (f a) -> f (t a)`
2023-01-11 10:09:36 +0100 <mastarija> If I sequence, and any of the `f a`s has failed, the whole thing fails.
2023-01-11 10:09:38 +0100 <c_wraith> :t sequenceA
2023-01-11 10:09:39 +0100 <lambdabot> (Traversable t, Applicative f) => t (f a) -> f (t a)
2023-01-11 10:09:46 +0100 <c_wraith> oh
2023-01-11 10:09:57 +0100 <mastarija> That would stop on the first one, no?
2023-01-11 10:10:01 +0100 <c_wraith> yes
2023-01-11 10:10:02 +0100chele(~chele@user/chele)
2023-01-11 10:10:29 +0100 <c_wraith> It's a bit unusual to want to ignore failing parses.
2023-01-11 10:10:38 +0100 <mastarija> Hm..., but why `f (t a)` instead of just `f a` if it stops on the first ones?
2023-01-11 10:11:17 +0100nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7780:cd00:4d52:82fa:2c2:5ed4) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-01-11 10:11:34 +0100 <mastarija> c_wraith: I kind of have a list of tagged union types, but they are encoded as simple strings.
2023-01-11 10:12:09 +0100 <c_wraith> hmm. back up a bit.. mapM is already sequence + map
2023-01-11 10:12:21 +0100shriekingnoise_(~shrieking@186.137.175.87)
2023-01-11 10:12:34 +0100 <merijn> mastarija: Sounds like you wanna parse permutations? I think there was a library for that already
2023-01-11 10:12:37 +0100 <mastarija> So I have to parse the list once, and collect all the items that belong to the type T1, and then again and collect all the types that belong to the T2.
2023-01-11 10:13:28 +0100 <c_wraith> hmm. not clear to me if you want permutation parsing or just to parse and then sort.
2023-01-11 10:13:40 +0100 <merijn> mastarija: Why not have a parser that returns Either T1 T2 and just run a single parse?
2023-01-11 10:13:49 +0100 <mastarija> Like, T1 = T1A | T1B | T1C and T2 = T2A | T2B | T2C.
2023-01-11 10:14:26 +0100 <mastarija> And I have a list [T1A, T2B, T2C, T1B, ...]
2023-01-11 10:14:46 +0100 <c_wraith> merijn's suggestion sounds good
2023-01-11 10:14:52 +0100 <mastarija> And I want to parse that into a structure Struct { t1s, t2s }
2023-01-11 10:14:58 +0100shriekingnoise(~shrieking@186.137.175.87) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2023-01-11 10:14:59 +0100 <mastarija> Yes, now that I think about it :)
2023-01-11 10:15:03 +0100 <c_wraith> :t partitionEithers
2023-01-11 10:15:05 +0100 <lambdabot> [Either a b] -> ([a], [b])
2023-01-11 10:15:06 +0100 <mastarija> I can sort out eithers
2023-01-11 10:15:14 +0100 <mastarija> Thanks!
2023-01-11 10:16:45 +0100 <mastarija> Hm... I'm parsing JSON, not sure if the `Either` instance is what I want, I think they "tagg" either values.
2023-01-11 10:16:58 +0100 <mastarija> I'm using Aeson
2023-01-11 10:17:41 +0100MajorBiscuit(~MajorBisc@145.94.179.130)
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2023-01-11 10:18:08 +0100zeenk(~zeenk@2a02:2f04:a110:ac00::7fe)
2023-01-11 10:18:38 +0100 <mastarija> Hm.. maybe not.
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2023-01-11 10:37:23 +0100chiselfuse(~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-01-11 10:39:57 +0100 <VOID[m]> Fellas, quick question. I want to use `do` notation for depth first search. I can get each element from possible by doing `n <- arr`, but I'd also need tails (because in my case order doesn't matter, but repetitions aren't allowed). I was thinking of using `tails`, just wanted to ask if anyone has a better idea, of the top of your head?
2023-01-11 10:40:20 +0100chiselfuse(~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse)
2023-01-11 10:41:10 +0100 <VOID[m]> something along the lines of `(n, t) <- zip arr (tail (tails arr))`
2023-01-11 10:41:16 +0100 <VOID[m]> Is it ok? Is there prettier way?
2023-01-11 10:44:07 +0100teo(~teo@user/teo)
2023-01-11 10:46:09 +0100 <Athas> VOID[m]: I have used that pattern before.
2023-01-11 10:47:45 +0100 <Athas> I have one of my favourite problems: linker trouble. Compiling any Haskell program fails with "collect2: fatal error: cannot find 'ld'". Now, 'ld' works fine in the command line, so I'm not sure what is going on.
2023-01-11 10:48:19 +0100 <Athas> I also get "Warning: Couldn't figure out linker information!" from GHC itself. But it's just GNU ld!
2023-01-11 10:48:43 +0100 <merijn> Athas: there's a compiler/linker config file in the GHC install
2023-01-11 10:49:01 +0100 <merijn> Athas: If you install the bindists yourself configure should've picked up ld
2023-01-11 10:49:21 +0100 <Athas> I've installed GHC from ghcup, but maybe my environment changed since...
2023-01-11 10:49:22 +0100 <merijn> but if you didn't run configure and your ld is in a weird place things may be borked?
2023-01-11 10:50:07 +0100 <Athas> Oh, I see ghcup actually warns "CC/LD environment variable is set."
2023-01-11 10:51:44 +0100 <VOID[m]> Athas: Thanks, in this case I'll keep it that way
2023-01-11 10:52:25 +0100talismanick(~talismani@2601:200:c181:8250::ce24) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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2023-01-11 11:10:42 +0100[Leary](~Leary]@user/Leary/x-0910699) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2023-01-11 11:13:13 +0100coot(~coot@2a02:a310:e241:1b00:ec1a:e9df:79ac:66ba)
2023-01-11 11:14:09 +0100jwiegley(~jwiegley@2600:1700:cf00:db0:2df3:add9:d7a8:37bf)
2023-01-11 11:14:22 +0100christiansen[m](~christian@2001:470:69fc:105::2:f23d)
2023-01-11 11:15:46 +0100 <maralorn> <sm> "maralorn: strange, https://www...." <- Yeah, I noticed.
2023-01-11 11:20:11 +0100troydm(~troydm@user/troydm) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2023-01-11 11:26:26 +0100 <tomsmeding> Athas: I don't have $LD but ghcup has always worked fine for me?
2023-01-11 11:26:44 +0100 <tomsmeding> I also don't have $CC
2023-01-11 11:26:53 +0100 <tomsmeding> (though I do have `cc`)
2023-01-11 11:28:20 +0100 <Athas> tomsmeding: yes, exactly. It breaks when those are set.
2023-01-11 11:28:52 +0100 <tomsmeding> ... oh I misread the warning that you quoted
2023-01-11 11:29:06 +0100 <tomsmeding> makes no sense though, unless they are set to very odd values
2023-01-11 11:29:08 +0100econo(uid147250@user/econo) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
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2023-01-11 11:31:04 +0100kenran(~user@user/kenran)
2023-01-11 11:33:16 +0100 <merijn> Athas: GHC's compiler and linker are set at install time and I don't think it nicely follows CC/LD unless you make it
2023-01-11 11:34:05 +0100 <Athas> They are probably set to odd values. This is an HPC system.
2023-01-11 11:34:35 +0100 <Athas> Anyway, works nicely now.
2023-01-11 11:42:56 +0100enoq(~enoq@2a05:1141:1f5:5600:b9c9:721a:599:bfe7)
2023-01-11 11:44:34 +0100Kaiepi(~Kaiepi@nwcsnbsc03w-47-55-159-86.dhcp-dynamic.fibreop.nb.bellaliant.net)
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2023-01-11 12:50:20 +0100troydm(~troydm@user/troydm)
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2023-01-11 13:05:30 +0100 <Inst> hmmm, is there any advice for dealing with servant + blaze + postgresql-simple spaceleaks?
2023-01-11 13:05:41 +0100 <Inst> I have it fairly bad, 1 request = 300 kb
2023-01-11 13:06:02 +0100machinedgod(~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net)
2023-01-11 13:08:19 +0100Umeaboy(~Umeaboy@94-255-145-133.cust.bredband2.com)
2023-01-11 13:08:38 +0100azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut)
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2023-01-11 13:30:18 +0100azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut)
2023-01-11 13:30:23 +0100oldfashionedcow(~Rahul_San@user/oldfashionedcow)
2023-01-11 13:32:43 +0100tremon(~tremon@83-85-213-108.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2023-01-11 13:36:47 +0100jao(~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net)
2023-01-11 13:44:02 +0100werneta(~werneta@70-142-214-115.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-01-11 13:46:42 +0100Guest9971(~finn@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2023-01-11 13:58:14 +0100titibandit1(~titibandi@xdsl-87-78-235-220.nc.de)
2023-01-11 14:00:54 +0100werneta(~werneta@70-142-214-115.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net)
2023-01-11 14:02:28 +0100 <Inst> hi troydm
2023-01-11 14:07:02 +0100machinedgod(~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net)
2023-01-11 14:13:15 +0100titibandit1(~titibandi@xdsl-87-78-235-220.nc.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2023-01-11 14:13:42 +0100titibandit1(~titibandi@xdsl-87-78-235-220.nc.de)
2023-01-11 14:14:16 +0100 <troydm> hey Inst
2023-01-11 14:18:07 +0100epolanski(uid312403@id-312403.helmsley.irccloud.com)
2023-01-11 14:19:47 +0100hgolden(~hgolden@cpe-172-251-233-141.socal.res.rr.com)
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2023-01-11 14:42:28 +0100 <[exa]> Any advice on how to force pandoc's `writeMarkdown` to include the YAML header? The doc says "turn on standalone mode with -s" but there's no such option for writers.
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2023-01-11 14:49:31 +0100bontaq(~user@ool-45779fe5.dyn.optonline.net)
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2023-01-11 15:18:32 +0100thegeekinside(~thegeekin@189.217.82.244)
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2023-01-11 15:28:43 +0100kuribas(~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be)
2023-01-11 15:35:15 +0100 <Inst> does anyone have experience with servant?
2023-01-11 15:35:34 +0100 <maerwald> half of all haskellers
2023-01-11 15:35:49 +0100raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-01-11 15:36:03 +0100 <Inst> i'm trying to figure out why servant is chewing up another 400 kb of ram every time i push a request to it, and this is with a toy program
2023-01-11 15:36:08 +0100 <Inst> is servant known to leak like this?
2023-01-11 15:36:32 +0100 <Inst> i already stuffed strict and strict data on all the files associated with it
2023-01-11 15:37:09 +0100foul_owl(~kerry@157.97.134.60) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2023-01-11 15:37:19 +0100tstat(~tstat@user/tstat) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2023-01-11 15:38:07 +0100 <Inst> or could it be a windows only thing?
2023-01-11 15:39:27 +0100 <lortabac> I have been using Servant for years in production, it has never caused a leak
2023-01-11 15:39:46 +0100[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
2023-01-11 15:40:11 +0100 <lortabac> of course it can't be excluded, but I'd start by looking at what the handlers are doing
2023-01-11 15:40:44 +0100 <merijn> Inst: depends what you're doing with said requests...
2023-01-11 15:40:59 +0100 <Inst> could be blaze instead
2023-01-11 15:41:16 +0100 <Inst> i have 3 endpoints, one just gives you instructions, two gives you instructions, but connects to an sql server and drags data from there
2023-01-11 15:41:24 +0100 <lortabac> regarding strict data, IME leaks due to laziness are much rarer than people think
2023-01-11 15:41:35 +0100 <Inst> it's possible that it's just because i'm using
2023-01-11 15:41:51 +0100 <Inst> import Web.FormUrlEncoded <--- which I have never heard of
2023-01-11 15:41:51 +0100 <lortabac> most of the time it's things like an ever-growing cache or connection-pool
2023-01-11 15:43:55 +0100 <Inst> why would it be cache? tbh, I can probably test it by disconnecting the straight HTML API and just having it produce some numbers instead
2023-01-11 15:44:24 +0100 <Inst> could it also be that i'm not closing my SQL handles?
2023-01-11 15:44:40 +0100 <lortabac> Inst: yes, that's much more likely than Servant itself
2023-01-11 15:45:57 +0100CiaoSen(~Jura@p200300c9574fa4002a3a4dfffe84dbd5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
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2023-01-11 15:56:45 +0100zer0bitz(~zer0bitz@dsl-hkibng32-54fb48-32.dhcp.inet.fi) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-01-11 15:59:04 +0100bhrgunatha(~bhrgunath@2001-b011-8005-2149-f5be-404a-a930-4185.dynamic-ip6.hinet.net)
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2023-01-11 16:00:14 +0100zer0bitz(~zer0bitz@dsl-hkibng32-54fb48-32.dhcp.inet.fi)
2023-01-11 16:00:50 +0100 <Inst> okay, this is dumb
2023-01-11 16:01:08 +0100 <Inst> bypassServer :: Server BypassAPI
2023-01-11 16:01:08 +0100 <Inst> bypassServer
2023-01-11 16:01:08 +0100 <Inst> = pure "2394820384290384920384092384920384920389402839402739472309472093472934072934702937402"
2023-01-11 16:01:15 +0100 <Inst> type BypassAPI
2023-01-11 16:01:16 +0100 <Inst> = "index" :> Get '[HTML] Html
2023-01-11 16:01:17 +0100 <Inst> what
2023-01-11 16:01:25 +0100 <merijn> Inst: Also, how are you measuring the memory usage?
2023-01-11 16:01:50 +0100 <Inst> wait, maybe this is just my misunderstanding of the runtime or something?
2023-01-11 16:02:38 +0100 <Inst> the memory usage measured in Windows Task manager goes up +60 every time I call the endpoint
2023-01-11 16:03:11 +0100Feuermagier(~Feuermagi@user/feuermagier) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2023-01-11 16:03:16 +0100 <Inst> +60 kb
2023-01-11 16:03:56 +0100shriekingnoise(~shrieking@186.137.175.87) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2023-01-11 16:04:40 +0100eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:ac96:e33a:7cce:aea0)
2023-01-11 16:05:39 +0100 <merijn> I don't even know what windows task manager displays
2023-01-11 16:06:22 +0100gnalzo(~gnalzo@2a01:e0a:498:fd50:fcc6:bb5d:489a:ce8c)
2023-01-11 16:07:00 +0100 <merijn> You want to know how much resident memory you have (which you can report with +RTS -s)
2023-01-11 16:07:35 +0100shapr`shapr
2023-01-11 16:09:35 +0100eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:ac96:e33a:7cce:aea0) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2023-01-11 16:10:33 +0100 <Inst> someone told me that in linux, linux resource manager won't GC until you run out of memory
2023-01-11 16:10:37 +0100 <int-e> @@ abc
2023-01-11 16:10:37 +0100 <lambdabot> abc
2023-01-11 16:10:52 +0100 <int-e> @. @ @ abc
2023-01-11 16:10:52 +0100 <lambdabot> abc
2023-01-11 16:10:54 +0100 <int-e> yay
2023-01-11 16:11:07 +0100 <int-e> @? abc
2023-01-11 16:11:07 +0100 <lambdabot> abc
2023-01-11 16:11:20 +0100 <geekosaur> still think I forgot to document that
2023-01-11 16:11:54 +0100 <int-e> Sorry actually, I meant to do that elsewhere.
2023-01-11 16:12:30 +0100 <Inst> on windows, the appearance is "active private working set" on the log
2023-01-11 16:12:36 +0100shriekingnoise(~shrieking@186.137.175.87)
2023-01-11 16:12:40 +0100 <lortabac> Inst: if you use ekg you can easily see the graph of memory usage, otherwise try to profile with GHC's memory profiler
2023-01-11 16:12:59 +0100 <lortabac> I wouldn't use the OS to debug a memory leak
2023-01-11 16:15:53 +0100 <Inst> yeah, it's probably just an issue with allocations and the OS isn't reliable in that regard
2023-01-11 16:15:54 +0100thongpv87(~thongpv87@103.199.71.100) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-01-11 16:16:03 +0100kurbus(~kurbus@user/kurbus) (Quit: Client closed)
2023-01-11 16:16:10 +0100 <lortabac> Inst: https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/users_guide/hints.html#hints-os-memory
2023-01-11 16:16:10 +0100 <Inst> profiler shows 38560 max residency for the simple case
2023-01-11 16:16:35 +0100thongpv(~thongpv87@2402:9d80:307:760e:3c34:cc21:e6b2:3db)
2023-01-11 16:16:37 +0100 <lortabac> Inst: https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/users_guide/runtime_control.html?highlight=disable%2…
2023-01-11 16:16:45 +0100 <Inst> i saw
2023-01-11 16:16:48 +0100 <Inst> thanks
2023-01-11 16:17:10 +0100titibandit1(~titibandi@xdsl-87-78-235-220.nc.de) (Quit: Leaving.)
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2023-01-11 16:21:45 +0100 <Inst> anyways, thanks, i think the memory residency based off reports is now normal
2023-01-11 16:23:16 +0100oldfashionedcow(~Rahul_San@user/oldfashionedcow) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-01-11 16:25:13 +0100Kaiepi(~Kaiepi@nwcsnbsc03w-47-55-159-86.dhcp-dynamic.fibreop.nb.bellaliant.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2023-01-11 16:30:54 +0100 <geekosaur> okay, now @@ is documented.
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2023-01-11 17:29:06 +0100lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:4c7a:8e07:664d:5b65) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2023-01-11 17:32:57 +0100acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d6e715c423f492b91f65fccc9f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2023-01-11 17:33:20 +0100acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e715c423cc17ec598020e768.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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2023-01-11 17:37:18 +0100 <jean-paul[m]> Why is fourmolu adding \ escapes to my haddock markup?
2023-01-11 17:38:00 +0100tstat(~tstat@user/tstat)
2023-01-11 17:42:11 +0100 <jean-paul[m]> Hm. Because it appears in places haddock doesn't look, it would seem.
2023-01-11 17:42:52 +0100eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:ac96:e33a:7cce:aea0)
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2023-01-11 19:11:11 +0100coot(~coot@2a02:a310:e241:1b00:ec1a:e9df:79ac:66ba)
2023-01-11 19:11:47 +0100raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2023-01-11 19:14:01 +0100 <raehik> If I ask `cabal -O2`, will it perform optimizations for all my dependencies too?
2023-01-11 19:15:18 +0100 <geekosaur> no. you need to put that in your `cabal.project`
2023-01-11 19:15:50 +0100 <geekosaur> https://github.com/geekosaur/xmonad.hs/blob/skkukuk/cabal.project
2023-01-11 19:16:47 +0100 <geekosaur> (you don't need the `-g`, that's leftover from trying to diagnose what turned out to be a ghc bug)
2023-01-11 19:18:10 +0100 <raehik> ty. what if I want to optimize one build but not others? like `cabal test` can be -O1 or -O0, but building an exe should be -O2
2023-01-11 19:18:54 +0100 <raehik> (also is there a diff between -O1 and -O2)
2023-01-11 19:19:17 +0100acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d6e715c419193affabe67df89f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2023-01-11 19:19:33 +0100 <geekosaur> there's a difference, but mostly that -O2 takes much longer to build. it doesn't usually gain you much
2023-01-11 19:19:35 +0100 <sclv> O1 is "normal" O2 is "lots, even at the cost of code size and compilation speed" and O0 is "optimize for compilation speed"
2023-01-11 19:20:08 +0100 <sclv> for optimizing different builds you just need to pass the flag explicitly on the command line
2023-01-11 19:20:29 +0100 <sclv> but typically once you have the lib built at one opt level you should leave it for the test suite, so that the lib doesn't get rebuilt at a new opt level
2023-01-11 19:20:39 +0100 <geekosaur> if you want to change it per kind of build, have multiple `cabal.project` files. like cabal itself has a `cabal.project.release` you use to build releases instead of for development
2023-01-11 19:21:15 +0100 <geekosaur> hm, guess that depends on how thorough you want to be and what other options you miht want to change
2023-01-11 19:22:03 +0100raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-01-11 19:23:45 +0100raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2023-01-11 19:24:19 +0100 <raehik> ooer crash. thanks geekosaur and sclv
2023-01-11 19:24:34 +0100 <eldritchcookie[4> how does the CApi calling convention work it claims to be able to import values defined as macros, what if i have something like AL_FUNC(return type,function called, more stuff i have no idea about ) would i be able to import that ?
2023-01-11 19:25:26 +0100 <geekosaur> it builds a C stub, so it can do whatever C can do. the old `ccall` api, when used with `-fasm`, just attempts a direct call to it as if it were a function available via asm
2023-01-11 19:25:29 +0100 <glguy> eldritchcookie[4: it doesn't import anything; it makes a little C stub that it compiles with a C compiler
2023-01-11 19:31:44 +0100ec_(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec)
2023-01-11 19:33:57 +0100ec__(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec)
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2023-01-11 19:34:29 +0100 <raehik> if anyone here uses haskell-flake or Nix with haskell: how can I configure flags for my Nix builds? can I ask it to disable optimizations for all pkgs for a build?
2023-01-11 19:35:06 +0100SasoriZero(~SasoriZer@098-147-198-034.res.spectrum.com) (Quit: Client closed)
2023-01-11 19:35:23 +0100SasoriZero(~SasoriZer@098-147-198-034.res.spectrum.com)
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2023-01-11 19:39:43 +0100 <raehik> Nix somehow produces outstandingly tiny binaries compared to regular `cabal build` wish I knew what went on in there. mostly opts and symbol (?) stripping but it still saved space after disabling them
2023-01-11 19:40:10 +0100 <merijn> raehik: Is Nix using dynamic linking by default?
2023-01-11 19:40:19 +0100 <merijn> raehik: That'd cut down a lot without actually cutting down
2023-01-11 19:40:55 +0100 <merijn> raehik: Also, are you using split-objs?
2023-01-11 19:41:12 +0100 <geekosaur> split-sections these days, works better and is a lot faster
2023-01-11 19:41:21 +0100 <merijn> eh, yeah
2023-01-11 19:41:33 +0100 <merijn> I meant split-sections, I even checked and then my brain typed the wrong one
2023-01-11 19:41:38 +0100 <raehik> `ldd` output on both looks the same. unsure about split-objs etc
2023-01-11 19:42:09 +0100 <merijn> raehik: split-sections lets the linker include only what is used from a library (including transitively), leading to dramatic shrinkage
2023-01-11 19:43:57 +0100 <raehik> interesting, looks like nix's haskell tooling enables it with enableDeadCodeElimination flag
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2023-01-11 19:44:16 +0100dagit(~dagit@2001:558:6025:38:6476:a063:d05a:44da)
2023-01-11 19:45:03 +0100 <raehik> are these not default otherwise? they seem like comfortable wins
2023-01-11 19:48:18 +0100 <geekosaur> possibly -split-sections should be on platforms/object file formats that support it (ELF, eCOFF)
2023-01-11 19:48:59 +0100 <geekosaur> it does have the downside that those unused parts won't be available from ghci or other effectively dynamic calls (e.g. plugins package)
2023-01-11 19:49:51 +0100 <merijn> raehik: Not default, no
2023-01-11 19:50:14 +0100 <merijn> at least not when I last checked a few years back
2023-01-11 19:50:55 +0100 <geekosaur> a ghc issue might be appropriate (probably not a proposal, wrong level)
2023-01-11 19:52:40 +0100 <geekosaur> there was good reason for -split-objs to not be default (it slowed linking down a whole lot); I think that was simply carried over without really revisiting whether it was still a factor
2023-01-11 19:52:43 +0100 <raehik> last thing I'm confused about, regardless of `optimization: X` in cabal.project.local, the build products all link to the same libs (in the Nix store). pre-Nix I was used to a change like that making evvverything recompile
2023-01-11 19:53:19 +0100 <geekosaur> it is possible that you need something like `package *\n optimization: 2`
2023-01-11 19:53:27 +0100 <geekosaur> I haven't checked
2023-01-11 19:53:34 +0100 <geekosaur> sclv?
2023-01-11 19:54:20 +0100 <merijn> Or in ~/.cabal/config :p
2023-01-11 20:01:19 +0100mizlan(~mizlan@2607:f010:2e9:21:181d:5524:60f4:7388)
2023-01-11 20:02:32 +0100 <raehik> guess this hardly matters because Hackage pkgs on Nix are almost certainly built with -O1 and not needing to rebuild to use with -O0 is fine by me. just confused how Nix can do so much without being told to
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2023-01-11 20:10:43 +0100 <davean> I don't know about currently, but nix use to rip out VERY important things ... like my dependency constraint on 'directory'
2023-01-11 20:10:50 +0100 <davean> it might just be ripping it out
2023-01-11 20:11:19 +0100 <davean> (This caused me dataloss)
2023-01-11 20:14:01 +0100 <raehik> rip out? like ignore? that's surprising
2023-01-11 20:14:05 +0100 <davean> YEP!
2023-01-11 20:14:29 +0100 <davean> Just deleted the constraint, assumed the version of directory with the compiler would always be fine
2023-01-11 20:15:17 +0100 <davean> *I'd specificly gotten directory fixed because it was not fine and required the fixed version* - there *was* an entire set of packages they just trusted to not need version bounds
2023-01-11 20:18:05 +0100 <davean> I don't know if they stopped or not but I will never stop being angry about that
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2023-01-11 20:25:16 +0100 <sclv> geekosaur: that sounds right about setting that in cabal.project.local. its not a nix thing afaik but cabal changed the scope of ghc-options to be local by default unless otherwise speciied
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2023-01-11 20:43:25 +0100 <eldritchcookie[4> how can i get all declarations of a module with template haskell?
2023-01-11 20:44:30 +0100 <geekosaur> (a) your TH would need to be at the very end of the file, since it's executed as the file is compiled (b) you would need to look at the ghc api to see how to get at everything in the current AST
2023-01-11 20:48:24 +0100 <geekosaur> for practical examples, try looking at one of the test frameworks that includes autodiscovery of embedded tests
2023-01-11 20:49:48 +0100wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-01-11 20:50:57 +0100wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot)
2023-01-11 20:51:36 +0100 <geekosaur> for example https://github.com/nick8325/quickcheck/blob/master/src/Test/QuickCheck/All.hs
2023-01-11 20:51:45 +0100son0p(~ff@2800:e2:f80:867:8077:75e8:74b:f48d)
2023-01-11 20:51:50 +0100mizlan(~mizlan@2607:f010:2e9:21:181d:5524:60f4:7388) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-01-11 20:55:16 +0100freeside_(~mengwong@bb115-66-48-84.singnet.com.sg) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2023-01-11 20:58:40 +0100 <eldritchcookie[4> how can i partially apply a function at compile time?
2023-01-11 20:58:47 +0100gmg(~user@user/gehmehgeh)
2023-01-11 20:59:32 +0100 <Rembane> eldritchcookie[4: f x y = x + y; g y = f 7 y
2023-01-11 21:01:36 +0100crns(~netcrns@user/crns) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2023-01-11 21:03:06 +0100crns(~netcrns@p4ff5e2c3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
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2023-01-11 21:03:18 +0100 <int-e> which you can write as g = f 7 (with some caveats regarding type signatures in light of the monomorphism restriction)
2023-01-11 21:04:21 +0100 <int-e> (Regarding `f` as a two-argument function, `f 7 y` isn't actually a partial application here. But `f 7` is.)
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2023-01-11 21:55:56 +0100kurbus(~kurbus@user/kurbus)
2023-01-11 21:59:45 +0100 <mastarija> I'm trying to organize my understanding of Functor, Applicative, Monad relationship a bit.
2023-01-11 22:00:16 +0100 <mastarija> We can say that functor can bring a function into another domain, right e.g. (a -> b) -> (f a -> f b)
2023-01-11 22:00:35 +0100 <lyxia> sure
2023-01-11 22:01:20 +0100 <merijn> mastarija: The link is that the functor interface is a subset of the monad interface (i.e. it is less powerful) and as a result the things that *are* functors is a superset of things that are monads
2023-01-11 22:01:21 +0100 <mastarija> Applicative is an upgrade because it allows us to apply arguments from that new domain to a lifted function e.g. f (a -> b) -> f a -> f b
2023-01-11 22:01:48 +0100oldfashionedcow(~Rahul_San@user/oldfashionedcow)
2023-01-11 22:02:17 +0100 <mastarija> Now, I remember there was nice comparison of fmap, and <*> and how "symetrical" they are
2023-01-11 22:02:47 +0100 <mastarija> But I also remember bind was in that comparison, but somehow when I look at them together bind is not really similar
2023-01-11 22:02:48 +0100SasoriZero(~SasoriZer@098-147-198-034.res.spectrum.com)
2023-01-11 22:03:02 +0100 <merijn> "fmap f x = pure f <*> x"
2023-01-11 22:03:25 +0100kurbus(~kurbus@user/kurbus) (Quit: Client closed)
2023-01-11 22:03:49 +0100 <mastarija> Yes, I get that more powerul things can implement less powerful ones.
2023-01-11 22:03:50 +0100 <mauke> bind :: (a -> f b) -> f a -> f b
2023-01-11 22:04:13 +0100 <mastarija> hm... is it not the other way around?
2023-01-11 22:04:25 +0100 <mauke> technically, yes
2023-01-11 22:04:32 +0100 <mastarija> f a -> (a -> f b) -> f b
2023-01-11 22:04:32 +0100 <mauke> :t (=<<)
2023-01-11 22:04:34 +0100 <lambdabot> Monad m => (a -> m b) -> m a -> m b
2023-01-11 22:04:44 +0100 <lyxia> mastarija: a comparison like this? https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Haskell/Applicative_functors#A_sliding_scale_of_power
2023-01-11 22:04:55 +0100 <mauke> @src =<<
2023-01-11 22:04:55 +0100 <lambdabot> f =<< x = x >>= f
2023-01-11 22:05:29 +0100 <mastarija> lyxia: yes :)
2023-01-11 22:05:35 +0100 <mauke> it's simply swapping the order of arguments, nothing fancy
2023-01-11 22:06:03 +0100 <geekosaur> :t (>=>)
2023-01-11 22:06:04 +0100 <lambdabot> Monad m => (a -> m b) -> (b -> m c) -> a -> m c
2023-01-11 22:06:16 +0100 <mauke> you could also think of it as f =<< x = join (fmap f x)
2023-01-11 22:06:16 +0100 <mastarija> Also, what can we say about the "meaning" of applicative and monad. I remember that applicative represents paralel actions, and monad represents sequential actions
2023-01-11 22:06:44 +0100 <mastarija> Any resource that expands on that interpretation?
2023-01-11 22:06:50 +0100 <mauke> (where join embodies the secret power of monads)
2023-01-11 22:07:46 +0100 <mastarija> so, the main thing of monads is that we are able to pull out nested monad out?
2023-01-11 22:08:05 +0100 <geekosaur> mastarija, the operations combined by <*> don't depend on each other, so they can be parallelized; >>= explicitly makes one depend on the other, so they must be done in sequence
2023-01-11 22:08:09 +0100mc47(~mc47@xmonad/TheMC47)
2023-01-11 22:08:54 +0100 <mauke> well, we can merge layers of nesting
2023-01-11 22:08:55 +0100 <mauke> we can't make them go away completely
2023-01-11 22:08:57 +0100 <mastarija> yes, that makes sense. I was just wondering if there's something more?
2023-01-11 22:09:05 +0100 <geekosaur> but that very dependency is why Monad is stronger in some sense than Applicative
2023-01-11 22:09:40 +0100 <mastarija> geekosaur: you mean that next step depends on the previous one?
2023-01-11 22:09:46 +0100freeside(~mengwong@bb115-66-48-84.singnet.com.sg) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2023-01-11 22:09:51 +0100 <geekosaur> yes. because Monad can now "make decisions"
2023-01-11 22:09:59 +0100 <geekosaur> whereas Applicative can't
2023-01-11 22:10:24 +0100 <mastarija> Aha... that's the kind of explanation I was looking for :)
2023-01-11 22:12:02 +0100 <mastarija> Thanks!
2023-01-11 22:13:19 +0100 <mauke> do applicative parsers correspond to context-free grammars?
2023-01-11 22:13:55 +0100 <mastarija> So, in the same sense that monad is more powerful than applicative because it can make decisions, what makes applicative more powerful than a functor?
2023-01-11 22:14:00 +0100 <geekosaur> I think so? seems to go along with individual parsers not being able to see each others' results
2023-01-11 22:14:03 +0100 <dolio> No, because laziness.
2023-01-11 22:14:34 +0100 <mastarija> Other than ability to apply lifted function to lifted arguments?
2023-01-11 22:14:52 +0100 <geekosaur> mastarija, because they can be done (or can be thought of as being done, but I think Simon Marlow has actual parallelism via Applicative) in parallel
2023-01-11 22:15:24 +0100 <geekosaur> not being dependent on each other is a different kind of power
2023-01-11 22:15:33 +0100 <merijn> oh
2023-01-11 22:15:37 +0100 <mastarija> What do you mean by being done?
2023-01-11 22:15:43 +0100 <merijn> Go read the Selective Functor paper
2023-01-11 22:15:52 +0100 <tomsmeding> was just going to post https://hackage.haskell.org/package/selective-0.5/docs/Control-Selective.html
2023-01-11 22:15:53 +0100 <merijn> That has a nice table and explanation :p
2023-01-11 22:16:13 +0100 <tomsmeding> more powerful than Applicative, but not quite as powerful as Monad
2023-01-11 22:16:23 +0100 <tomsmeding> in the sense of "making decisions"
2023-01-11 22:16:38 +0100 <mastarija> Hm... the linked paper no longer exists
2023-01-11 22:16:44 +0100 <mastarija> Is the documentation enough?
2023-01-11 22:16:49 +0100 <merijn> Google Scholar selective functors
2023-01-11 22:16:58 +0100 <geekosaur> try the wayback machine?
2023-01-11 22:17:15 +0100 <merijn> https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cluster=7696894104468042395&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5
2023-01-11 22:17:20 +0100 <tomsmeding> https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/3341694
2023-01-11 22:17:26 +0100 <mastarija> Thx
2023-01-11 22:19:56 +0100freeside(~mengwong@bb115-66-48-84.singnet.com.sg)
2023-01-11 22:20:21 +0100 <mastarija> I don't quite get what they mean by "static visibility and analysis of effects" why can applicative and selective do that and monad can't?
2023-01-11 22:20:38 +0100 <mastarija> Don't we have things like `try` and `catch`?
2023-01-11 22:21:06 +0100 <tomsmeding> mastarija: if you have some computation 'f :: Monad m => Int -> m Int', then you cannot trace the entire function
2023-01-11 22:21:22 +0100 <tomsmeding> because if it uses >>=, then you must have the input value for that >>= in order to be able to run the continuation
2023-01-11 22:21:31 +0100 <tomsmeding> but in tracing your input value is symbolic, so that doesn't work
2023-01-11 22:21:47 +0100 <tomsmeding> with Applicative, no such dependencies exist, so you can trace all you like
2023-01-11 22:22:05 +0100 <tomsmeding> Selective allows the same tracing because it does not guarantee that the selected-out effects are not performed
2023-01-11 22:22:27 +0100 <tomsmeding> (this is described in the haddocks as well as, presumably, in the paper)
2023-01-11 22:22:51 +0100 <mastarija> Hm.. having a hard time understanding it.
2023-01-11 22:23:08 +0100 <tomsmeding> I'm having a hard time understanding my own example lol
2023-01-11 22:23:32 +0100hgolden(~hgolden@cpe-172-251-233-141.socal.res.rr.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-01-11 22:23:33 +0100 <tomsmeding> ah, I guess this is better: 'f :: Monad m => m Int -> m Int'
2023-01-11 22:24:14 +0100freeside(~mengwong@bb115-66-48-84.singnet.com.sg) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-01-11 22:24:28 +0100 <tomsmeding> if 'f' goes 'f act = act >>= \x -> if x == 12345 then return 1 else return 0', but you have only f as a black box, how are you going to find out that it can also return something else than 0?
2023-01-11 22:24:35 +0100 <tomsmeding> apart from sheer luck
2023-01-11 22:26:42 +0100 <tomsmeding> hm example is also flawed
2023-01-11 22:26:47 +0100 <tomsmeding> it's too late here, someone else can explain :D
2023-01-11 22:26:57 +0100waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:213:7200:cc36:a556:b1e8:b340)
2023-01-11 22:26:58 +0100 <mastarija> I'll have to think about this a bit harder, plus it's late :)
2023-01-11 22:27:00 +0100 <lyxia> mauke: you can applicative-parse any recursively enumerable language by enumerating its words and "asum" them.
2023-01-11 22:27:47 +0100 <mauke> is that like an infinite grammar?
2023-01-11 22:27:50 +0100 <lyxia> you only get context-free-ness if you're not allowed to make functions (a -> Parser b)
2023-01-11 22:27:56 +0100 <lyxia> yeah
2023-01-11 22:28:41 +0100hgolden(~hgolden@cpe-172-251-233-141.socal.res.rr.com)
2023-01-11 22:29:22 +0100 <lyxia> Each nonterminal symbol in a grammar could correspond to a "Parser a", but (a -> Parser b) lets you construct a grammar with infinitely many nonterminals
2023-01-11 22:30:55 +0100chaitlatte0(6623d1650e@user/chaitlatte0)
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2023-01-11 22:34:41 +0100 <mauke> I don't know if I've got this right, but re: static effects
2023-01-11 22:34:42 +0100 <mauke> imagine something like `(readLn :: IO Integer) >>= foo`
2023-01-11 22:35:23 +0100 <mauke> depending on the (arbitrarily large) value produced by readLn, foo can assemble any sort of effects it likes
2023-01-11 22:36:13 +0100 <mauke> from no effects (return x) to all the effects (delete all your files, then produce an infinite stream of bytes on stdout) and anything in between
2023-01-11 22:36:54 +0100 <mauke> and because of the monadic interface, foo gets to make this choice dynamically, at runtime
2023-01-11 22:38:19 +0100freeside(~mengwong@bb115-66-48-84.singnet.com.sg)
2023-01-11 22:39:07 +0100 <mauke> whereas with Applicative you get to do computation on the incoming value, but it can't affect the effects
2023-01-11 22:39:10 +0100 <mauke> great sentence
2023-01-11 22:40:41 +0100jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) (Error from remote client)
2023-01-11 22:42:36 +0100dsrt^(~dsrt@76.145.190.81)
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2023-01-11 22:45:54 +0100 <tomsmeding> right, I was trying to show that with a function that doesn't do any effects, you can still see a difference between Monad and Applicative. But you can't, the point is that the _effects_ can depend on the values (Monad) or not (Applicative)
2023-01-11 22:46:18 +0100 <tomsmeding> and with Selective, they can sortof, but the a
2023-01-11 22:46:52 +0100 <tomsmeding> *but the laws allow you to run the computation executing _all_ effects, i.e. disabling the effect the values have on the effects
2023-01-11 22:46:54 +0100irrgit__(~irrgit@146.70.27.242) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-01-11 22:47:01 +0100jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net)
2023-01-11 22:47:17 +0100 <tomsmeding> talking about how values affect effects, i.e. how they have effects on effects, is confusing
2023-01-11 22:47:24 +0100 <tomsmeding> :t confusing
2023-01-11 22:47:26 +0100 <lambdabot> Applicative f => LensLike (Data.Functor.Day.Curried.Curried (Data.Functor.Yoneda.Yoneda f) (Data.Functor.Yoneda.Yoneda f)) s t a b -> LensLike f s t a b
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2023-01-11 22:47:52 +0100irrgit__(~irrgit@86.106.90.226)
2023-01-11 22:48:54 +0100Vajb(~Vajb@2001:999:78d:d7:457c:7773:573e:6903)
2023-01-11 22:51:11 +0100 <tomsmeding> for IO, the question could be: can this computation at some point decide to delete all my files? For Parser, it could be: does the parser ever use the 'satisfy' primitive? For some parallelism monad, it could be: how wide is the potential parallelism?
2023-01-11 22:51:55 +0100 <tomsmeding> with applicatives, you can answer those questions; with Selective, you can check whether it _potentially_ does so. With Monad, you have no clue after the first >>=
2023-01-11 22:52:25 +0100 <tomsmeding> you can only run the computation and see what happens
2023-01-11 22:53:27 +0100 <tomsmeding> I hope I got it right now lol
2023-01-11 22:54:39 +0100 <tomsmeding> for Parser you could also consider optimising the parser, like rearranging alternatives so that you have a higher probability of early-outs or something
2023-01-11 22:55:07 +0100 <tomsmeding> with Applicative you can see the structure (if not the values), with Monad you don't
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