2022/12/25

2022-12-25 00:00:11 +0100 <hololeap> the competing libs that do similar things with no compatibility layers seems to be a constant problem with hackage/haskell. it seems like more of a social problem than a technical one, IMO
2022-12-25 00:00:53 +0100 <geekosaur> I've never had trouble with mtl, but I do think as soon as you've reached for unliftio you've invited trouble in general
2022-12-25 00:05:58 +0100 <geekosaur> I feel like unliftio is trying to be a general solution to a problem that has no general solution, the complexity of MonadBaseControl is proof, and mtl is an exclamation mark on the whole thing
2022-12-25 00:07:32 +0100 <MelMalik> = 167
2022-12-25 00:12:28 +0100 <jackdk> I don't think that's right, because unliftio is by design less general than MonadBaseControl
2022-12-25 00:14:13 +0100tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2022-12-25 00:14:37 +0100 <geekosaur> it is nevertheless hitting a form of the same problem
2022-12-25 00:15:20 +0100 <hololeap> @hackage unlift-stm -- I wrote this not knowing about MonadBaseControl. I may not have written it if I had known
2022-12-25 00:15:20 +0100 <lambdabot> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/unlift-stm -- I wrote this not knowing about MonadBaseControl. I may not have written it if I had known
2022-12-25 00:19:59 +0100poscat(~poscat@114.245.108.192) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2022-12-25 00:20:59 +0100poscat(~poscat@114.245.108.12)
2022-12-25 00:25:10 +0100 <hololeap> given the isomorphisms present in ReaderT and IdentityT, doesn't the existence of unliftio make sense? I never fully understood the other transformers that MonadBaseControl supports
2022-12-25 00:26:29 +0100 <hololeap> but the fact is, this should work with monads other than IO so why not generalize it?
2022-12-25 00:27:12 +0100 <hololeap> my lib that I just linked to was a lot of copy-and-paste from unliftio and replacing IO with STM
2022-12-25 00:30:55 +0100jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) (Error from remote client)
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2022-12-25 00:35:35 +0100 <hololeap> ReaderT r (t m) a ~ t (ReaderT r m) a -- and -- ReaderT r m a ~ r -> m a ~ Reader r (m a)
2022-12-25 00:35:44 +0100 <hololeap> so this gives a lot of wiggle-room
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2022-12-25 08:20:29 +0100sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2022-12-25 08:22:36 +0100sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10)
2022-12-25 08:26:27 +0100 <dsal> > let baseStr digs = reverse . unfoldr (\x -> case x of 0 -> Nothing; x -> let (d,r) = x `divMod` length digs in Just (digs !! r, d)) in baseStr "0123456789ABCDEF" 12345 -- iqubic
2022-12-25 08:26:28 +0100 <lambdabot> "3039"
2022-12-25 08:26:41 +0100 <dsal> > let baseStr digs = reverse . unfoldr (\x -> case x of 0 -> Nothing; x -> let (d,r) = x `divMod` length digs in Just (digs !! r, d)) in baseStr "01234" 12345
2022-12-25 08:26:43 +0100 <lambdabot> "343340"
2022-12-25 08:26:51 +0100 <iqubic> Yeah, that's cool.
2022-12-25 08:28:32 +0100 <dsal> > let baseStr digs = reverse . unfoldr (\x -> case x of 0 -> Nothing; x -> let r = x `mod` length digs in Just (digs !! r, (d+r) `div` length digs) in baseStr "012=-" 2022
2022-12-25 08:28:34 +0100 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:147: error: parse error on input ‘in’
2022-12-25 08:28:38 +0100 <dsal> argh.
2022-12-25 08:29:15 +0100 <dsal> > let baseStr digs = reverse . unfoldr (\x -> case x of 0 -> Nothing; x -> let r = x `mod` length digs in Just (digs !! r, (x+r) `div` length digs)) in baseStr "012=-" 2022
2022-12-25 08:29:17 +0100 <lambdabot> "1=11-2"
2022-12-25 08:29:22 +0100 <dsal> Generalized negatives.
2022-12-25 08:29:29 +0100 <iqubic> I see.
2022-12-25 08:29:30 +0100 <dsal> > let baseStr digs = reverse . unfoldr (\x -> case x of 0 -> Nothing; x -> let r = x `mod` length digs in Just (digs !! r, (x+r) `div` length digs)) in baseStr "01-" 2022
2022-12-25 08:29:32 +0100 <lambdabot> "10-100-0"
2022-12-25 08:30:30 +0100 <dsal> > let baseStr digs = reverse . unfoldr (\x -> case x of 0 -> Nothing; x -> let r = x `mod` length digs in Just (digs !! r, (x+r) `div` length digs)) in baseStr ['a'..'z'] 2022
2022-12-25 08:30:32 +0100 <lambdabot> "dau"
2022-12-25 08:31:06 +0100 <dsal> Probably shouldn't use an even number of digits for such a thing.
2022-12-25 08:31:36 +0100takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be)
2022-12-25 08:34:02 +0100libertyprime(~libertypr@203.96.203.167) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2022-12-25 08:35:14 +0100 <iqubic> Yeah, that would be ambiguous.
2022-12-25 08:43:48 +0100 <dsal> > unfoldr (Just . (`divMod` 3)) a
2022-12-25 08:43:50 +0100 <lambdabot> [a `div` 3,a `mod` 3 `div` 3,a `mod` 3 `mod` 3 `div` 3,a `mod` 3 `mod` 3 `mo...
2022-12-25 08:43:57 +0100 <dsal> lambdabot, you crazy
2022-12-25 08:44:23 +0100 <iqubic> That is a bit crazy.
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2022-12-25 13:43:23 +0100shamelessshill(~shamlesss@user/shamelessshill) ()
2022-12-25 13:45:53 +0100HaskellNewb(~HaskellNe@103.5.134.18)
2022-12-25 13:46:40 +0100 <HaskellNewb> Hello, folks.
2022-12-25 13:48:15 +0100 <HaskellNewb> I have worked through Graham Hutton's "Programming in Haskell" (2nd Edition) and thoroughly enjoyed it. Now, what is the next step to take? I've seen a few resources, but could not really find anything as structured or well-explained. Basically, maybe the more useful question is - to create real-world projects, what major topics need to be known
2022-12-25 13:48:16 +0100 <HaskellNewb> beyond the topics covered in Hutton's book?
2022-12-25 13:48:47 +0100 <HaskellNewb> (For reference, just in case, Hutton's book covers upto and including Functors, Applicatives, and Monads, no libraries, cabal, or stack, just pure ghc and ghci).
2022-12-25 13:49:44 +0100gmg(~user@user/gehmehgeh)
2022-12-25 13:51:09 +0100 <__monty__> HaskellNewb: One way is to just dive in. Start writing small utility programs and gradually build up to what interests you most. Asking for advice here along the way.
2022-12-25 13:51:31 +0100 <HaskellNewb> Hmmm ... that's one way to go about it indeed.
2022-12-25 13:52:00 +0100 <__monty__> As for a list of books...
2022-12-25 13:52:03 +0100 <__monty__> @where books
2022-12-25 13:52:03 +0100 <lambdabot> https://www.extrema.is/articles/haskell-books is the best list of Haskell books. See also: LYAH, RWH, YAHT, SOE, HR, PIH, TFwH, wikibook, PCPH, HPFFP, FSAF, HftVB, HTAC, TwT, FoP, PFAD, WYAH, non-
2022-12-25 13:52:03 +0100 <lambdabot> haskell-books
2022-12-25 13:52:32 +0100 <__monty__> I'm not sure any of those really go into any depth on the available libraries though.
2022-12-25 13:52:43 +0100 <__monty__> That's more something you gradually discover when you find a need.
2022-12-25 13:52:55 +0100 <HaskellNewb> Thanks for the book list, __monty__
2022-12-25 13:53:24 +0100 <HaskellNewb> Just wondering - do I need something like monad transformers or plain old monad chaining works fine?
2022-12-25 13:53:27 +0100 <HaskellNewb> (to begin with)
2022-12-25 13:55:20 +0100 <HaskellNewb> Because I had a cursory look at it from a few blogs, and I couldn't understand any of it. The whole "lift" business, for instance.
2022-12-25 13:55:32 +0100 <__monty__> I'd say they're not necessary.
2022-12-25 13:56:35 +0100Guest323(~finn@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2022-12-25 13:58:21 +0100 <HaskellNewb> Okay, thank you, __monty__!
2022-12-25 13:58:42 +0100 <__monty__> The best way to understand them is to run into situations that get boilerplatey without them.
2022-12-25 13:59:17 +0100 <__monty__> And then you can rewrite it with transformers and have an "Aha-Erlebnis."
2022-12-25 13:59:52 +0100n0den1te(~n0den1te@223.178.82.63)
2022-12-25 14:00:19 +0100 <HaskellNewb> I hope I can reach that stage of understanding eventually! :)
2022-12-25 14:00:32 +0100 <__monty__> You will, I believe in you.
2022-12-25 14:00:58 +0100 <HaskellNewb> I found this small game which looks approachable enough - https://github.com/jxv/dino-rush. Maybe I'll play around with it and start getting my hands dirty!
2022-12-25 14:01:10 +0100 <HaskellNewb> Hahaha, you're very kind, __monty__! :)
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2022-12-25 14:02:50 +0100HaskellNewb(~HaskellNe@103.5.134.18) ()
2022-12-25 14:04:53 +0100 <__monty__> Note that graphics programming can be a bit hard to follow if you're not familiar with it and it may not be the most idiomatic Haskell. Don't let that stop you if it's of particular interest to you though. The graphics knowledge will carry over to other languages easily.
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2022-12-25 17:27:28 +0100rustisafungus(~segfaultf@23-93-74-212.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net)
2022-12-25 17:28:02 +0100 <rustisafungus> happy holidays and merry christmas #haskell, may you enjoy whatever you unwrap from your monads today
2022-12-25 17:33:15 +0100 <hpc> enjoy your unboxed heap under a balanced tree? :D
2022-12-25 17:33:28 +0100eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:9875:ba39:3caf:182f)
2022-12-25 17:34:02 +0100 <rustisafungus> haha
2022-12-25 17:34:12 +0100morb(~morb@pool-72-80-94-112.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
2022-12-25 17:34:18 +0100 <rustisafungus> are you hoping to get a transformer ?
2022-12-25 17:34:58 +0100 <Rembane> https://xkcd.com/835/ :D
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2022-12-25 18:32:44 +0100 <monochrom> haha
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2022-12-25 19:58:54 +0100jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ()
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2022-12-25 21:44:15 +0100morb(~morb@pool-72-80-94-112.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2022-12-25 21:54:08 +0100johnw(~johnw@2600:1700:cf00:db0:1909:8dee:7930:76a2)
2022-12-25 21:54:09 +0100freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.159)
2022-12-25 21:54:29 +0100Umeaboy(~Umeaboy@94-255-145-133.cust.bredband2.com)
2022-12-25 21:56:49 +0100morb(~morb@pool-72-80-94-112.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
2022-12-25 21:57:10 +0100 <Umeaboy> I think I made a boo boo in my commit and I would like some help to solve it: https://github.com/haskell/ghcup-hs/pull/730
2022-12-25 22:01:32 +0100morb(~morb@pool-72-80-94-112.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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2022-12-25 23:02:05 +0100cheater_cheater
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2022-12-25 23:33:18 +0100freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.159)
2022-12-25 23:41:12 +0100 <geekosaur> Umeaboy, the commit itself looks harmless as it's a doc commit. You'd have to talk to maerwald about why tests are failing
2022-12-25 23:41:32 +0100Umeaboy(~Umeaboy@94-255-145-133.cust.bredband2.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-12-25 23:42:09 +0100tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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