| 2022-10-07 00:02:47 +0200 | raehik1 | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) |
| 2022-10-07 00:03:51 +0200 | nate1 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 00:08:00 +0200 | jpds | (~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 00:10:27 +0200 | jpds | (~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds) |
| 2022-10-07 00:12:01 +0200 | inversed | (~inversed@90.209.137.56) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 00:16:44 +0200 | inversed | (~inversed@90.209.137.56) |
| 2022-10-07 00:17:20 +0200 | cyphase | (~cyphase@user/cyphase) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 00:18:11 +0200 | rockystone | (~rocky@user/rockymarine) |
| 2022-10-07 00:18:27 +0200 | caryhartline | (~caryhartl@2600:1700:2d0:8d30::1c) (Quit: caryhartline) |
| 2022-10-07 00:19:48 +0200 | burnsidesLlama | (~burnsides@client-8-86.eduroam.oxuni.org.uk) |
| 2022-10-07 00:20:14 +0200 | kdaishi | (~Thunderbi@94.191.152.1.mobile.tre.se) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 00:24:19 +0200 | burnsidesLlama | (~burnsides@client-8-86.eduroam.oxuni.org.uk) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 00:28:11 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:e519:421e:c827:31f) |
| 2022-10-07 00:29:55 +0200 | cyphase | (~cyphase@user/cyphase) |
| 2022-10-07 00:31:06 +0200 | titibandit | (~titibandi@xdsl-89-0-65-2.nc.de) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 00:32:28 +0200 | caryhartline | (~caryhartl@2600:1700:2d0:8d30::1c) |
| 2022-10-07 00:33:01 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:e519:421e:c827:31f) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 00:33:20 +0200 | zns | (~zns@user/zns) (Quit: zzz) |
| 2022-10-07 00:33:32 +0200 | zns | (~zns@user/zns) |
| 2022-10-07 00:35:58 +0200 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-34.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 2022-10-07 00:36:54 +0200 | heinz9 | (~trace@user/trace) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-10-07 00:42:04 +0200 | zns | (~zns@user/zns) (Quit: zzz) |
| 2022-10-07 00:42:14 +0200 | zns | (~zns@user/zns) |
| 2022-10-07 00:42:24 +0200 | <qrpnxz> | hmmm, it's difficult to find a way to take advantage of build |
| 2022-10-07 00:44:05 +0200 | <geekosaur> | it is? I thought pretty much any list "pipeline" that ended with a fold did so |
| 2022-10-07 00:44:23 +0200 | bitdex | (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) |
| 2022-10-07 00:44:49 +0200 | <dminuoso> | It's as simple as `foldr (+) 0` *shrugs* |
| 2022-10-07 00:46:06 +0200 | zns | (~zns@user/zns) (Client Quit) |
| 2022-10-07 00:46:07 +0200 | lisbeths | (uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2022-10-07 00:46:16 +0200 | zns | (~zns@user/zns) |
| 2022-10-07 00:49:15 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@ai071162.d.east.v6connect.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 00:54:12 +0200 | chele | (~chele@user/chele) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-10-07 00:55:50 +0200 | Guest86 | (~Guest86@p200300ef9718356967cd5be491300607.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2022-10-07 00:56:37 +0200 | Guest86 | (~Guest86@p200300ef9718356967cd5be491300607.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2022-10-07 00:58:44 +0200 | bitdex | (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Quit: = "") |
| 2022-10-07 00:59:14 +0200 | bitdex | (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) |
| 2022-10-07 01:00:19 +0200 | burnsidesLlama | (~burnsides@client-8-86.eduroam.oxuni.org.uk) |
| 2022-10-07 01:01:59 +0200 | <Guest86> | The IntMap docs say the runtime of lookup or insert is min(n,W), n = number of entries in the map, W = number of bits in an Int (32 or 64). |
| 2022-10-07 01:01:59 +0200 | <Guest86> | Because it's min(n,32) and 32 is a constant lookup/insert is always constant time, not log n in an Intmap? |
| 2022-10-07 01:02:15 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@ai071162.d.east.v6connect.net) |
| 2022-10-07 01:02:56 +0200 | mixphix | (~mixphix@bras-base-otwaon237cw-grc-11-174-91-129-69.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 2022-10-07 01:03:22 +0200 | <Guest86> | So there would never be a reason to use a hasmap if my keys are Ints? |
| 2022-10-07 01:06:09 +0200 | burnsidesLlama | (~burnsides@client-8-86.eduroam.oxuni.org.uk) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 01:07:29 +0200 | <mixphix> | you're probably better off using an IntMap if that's the case, its algorithms work by (ab)using the compile-time guarantee that the keys are encoded in a certain way |
| 2022-10-07 01:07:51 +0200 | <mixphix> | for better performance |
| 2022-10-07 01:08:17 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Which "certain way encoding" is that? |
| 2022-10-07 01:08:37 +0200 | <mixphix> | the fact that they're Ints allow you to bit-twiddle safely |
| 2022-10-07 01:09:03 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Mmm, abuse is not the term that comes to mind here. |
| 2022-10-07 01:09:58 +0200 | catern | (~sbaugh@2604:2000:8fc0:b:a9c7:866a:bf36:3407) |
| 2022-10-07 01:10:02 +0200 | <mixphix> | "abuse" is a strong word, perhaps i should have said "exploiting" |
| 2022-10-07 01:10:14 +0200 | beteigeuze | (~Thunderbi@a79-169-109-107.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 2022-10-07 01:10:32 +0200 | <dminuoso> | "highly efficient implementation" sounds more positive. :) |
| 2022-10-07 01:10:36 +0200 | <mixphix> | :) |
| 2022-10-07 01:11:18 +0200 | Igloo | (~ian@matrix.chaos.earth.li) (Quit: BIAB) |
| 2022-10-07 01:11:39 +0200 | <dminuoso> | I use a recursive IntMap to have a kind of [Int] indexed tree, its really fun. |
| 2022-10-07 01:11:55 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Performs incredibly well for lookup |
| 2022-10-07 01:12:01 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Not quite so much for deep insertions |
| 2022-10-07 01:13:36 +0200 | <mixphix> | interesting that you mention that, i recently wrote a small library for list-indexed maps, though recursion is an area i haven't tackled in it |
| 2022-10-07 01:13:47 +0200 | nate1 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) |
| 2022-10-07 01:14:39 +0200 | <mixphix> | <https://github.com/mixphix/deep-map> |
| 2022-10-07 01:14:41 +0200 | <dminuoso> | data IntTree a = INode a (IM.IntMap (IntTree a)) |
| 2022-10-07 01:15:44 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Luckily I dont care about deep updates much, since my tree is very flat and construction happens once, and I dont mind a few milliseconds extra. |
| 2022-10-07 01:15:58 +0200 | <dminuoso> | It's a long running server. :) |
| 2022-10-07 01:18:04 +0200 | Erez | (~Erez@h-155-4-187-85.A412.priv.bahnhof.se) |
| 2022-10-07 01:18:05 +0200 | <mixphix> | i wrote the above to help with aggregation statistics, and allowing for different types of keys in the same structure |
| 2022-10-07 01:18:35 +0200 | nate1 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 01:20:51 +0200 | <dminuoso> | It's neat |
| 2022-10-07 01:21:13 +0200 | mvk | (~mvk@2607:fea8:5ce3:8500::778c) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 01:22:18 +0200 | Erez | (~Erez@h-155-4-187-85.A412.priv.bahnhof.se) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 01:25:09 +0200 | <Guest86> | dminuoso: Since maxBound :: Int is huge every node of your tree can have billions of children? Or am I misunderstanding your data type? |
| 2022-10-07 01:25:28 +0200 | <EvanR> | "complexity" = min(n,W) where W is 32 or 64, so this thing is less efficient on a 64bit computer! |
| 2022-10-07 01:25:54 +0200 | <EvanR> | switching to 16 bit for 4x boost |
| 2022-10-07 01:26:44 +0200 | <Guest86> | EvanR: Do these constants really make a difference? |
| 2022-10-07 01:27:08 +0200 | <EvanR> | we do have benchmark games involving various languages and haskell trying to compete with IntMap |
| 2022-10-07 01:27:22 +0200 | <EvanR> | afair it's pretty good |
| 2022-10-07 01:29:24 +0200 | Igloo | (~ian@matrix.chaos.earth.li) |
| 2022-10-07 01:29:25 +0200 | <EvanR> | at least the constant time complexity can be used for bragging when clojure shows up with their fancy map type |
| 2022-10-07 01:29:41 +0200 | son0p | (~ff@181.136.122.143) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 01:32:07 +0200 | <Guest86> | Is this real constant time lookup? The IntMap docs don't mention "amortized". |
| 2022-10-07 01:33:15 +0200 | <Guest86> | Either way seems like a very impressive data structure. |
| 2022-10-07 01:34:12 +0200 | roboguy_ | (~roboguy_@cpe-69-76-235-109.kc.res.rr.com) |
| 2022-10-07 01:34:58 +0200 | jakalx | (~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) (Error from remote client) |
| 2022-10-07 01:38:09 +0200 | gurkenglas | (~gurkengla@p548ac72e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2022-10-07 01:42:46 +0200 | jakalx | (~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) |
| 2022-10-07 01:43:38 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Guest86: No its not constant. |
| 2022-10-07 01:43:51 +0200 | rockystone | (~rocky@user/rockymarine) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 01:47:10 +0200 | <dminuoso> | But yeah, Okaski strikes again. |
| 2022-10-07 01:47:16 +0200 | <dminuoso> | *Okasaki |
| 2022-10-07 01:50:23 +0200 | zns | (~zns@user/zns) (Quit: zzz) |
| 2022-10-07 01:53:03 +0200 | sammelweis | (~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) |
| 2022-10-07 01:54:11 +0200 | sammelweis | (~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) |
| 2022-10-07 01:55:27 +0200 | <probie> | EvanR: Going 16-bit won't help much. The Haskell report wants a minimum of 30 bits for an Int https://www.haskell.org/onlinereport/haskell2010/haskellch6.html#dx13-135001 |
| 2022-10-07 01:56:11 +0200 | rockystone | (~rocky@user/rockymarine) |
| 2022-10-07 01:57:19 +0200 | <hpc> | just make your ints -1 bits wide |
| 2022-10-07 02:00:26 +0200 | <dminuoso> | probie: So? GHC already violates the Haskell report in a few places for convenience. |
| 2022-10-07 02:00:34 +0200 | <dminuoso> | I second hpc's suggestion. |
| 2022-10-07 02:01:02 +0200 | <dminuoso> | With negative bits, you get faster-than-light access, which means you can access values not-yet-inserted into the map. |
| 2022-10-07 02:01:51 +0200 | azimut | (~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 02:02:08 +0200 | <Clinton[m]> | Using `OverloadedRecordDot`, is there a way I can only import a field say `x` as only a field, so `a.x` works but `x a` fails to compile? |
| 2022-10-07 02:02:09 +0200 | <Clinton[m]> | I'd like to be able to say `x = a.x` without warnings about name shadowing. |
| 2022-10-07 02:02:27 +0200 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-10-07 02:03:43 +0200 | <hpc> | dminuoso: and -1 is larger than 30 because you can't have negatively sized ints, so it's perfectly standards compliant! |
| 2022-10-07 02:05:24 +0200 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) |
| 2022-10-07 02:06:33 +0200 | azimut | (~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) |
| 2022-10-07 02:08:09 +0200 | <geekosaur> | Clinton[m], perhaps you want NoFieldSelectors? |
| 2022-10-07 02:08:51 +0200 | <geekosaur> | otherwise, not that I'm aware of (but in `x a` `x` is a function, so perhaps `hiding (x)` would work) |
| 2022-10-07 02:09:51 +0200 | mixphix | (~mixphix@bras-base-otwaon237cw-grc-11-174-91-129-69.dsl.bell.ca) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 02:10:12 +0200 | Guest86 | (~Guest86@p200300ef9718356967cd5be491300607.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2022-10-07 02:11:09 +0200 | [itchyjunk] | (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) |
| 2022-10-07 02:13:40 +0200 | beteigeuze | (~Thunderbi@a79-169-109-107.cpe.netcabo.pt) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-10-07 02:13:59 +0200 | beteigeuze | (~Thunderbi@a79-169-109-107.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 2022-10-07 02:14:31 +0200 | stiell_ | (~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-10-07 02:15:21 +0200 | notzmv | (~zmv@user/notzmv) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 02:15:34 +0200 | stiell_ | (~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) |
| 2022-10-07 02:17:06 +0200 | <qrpnxz> | geekosaur: the stream fusion type works as a state machine. In order to convert a `build` construction which is a function of the form `forall b. (a -> b -> b) -> b -> b` into a state and stepper function pair, i don't see a natural/beneficial way to do that that is not just building an actual list and consuming it. However, this is not totally terrible or game over, since the constructor |
| 2022-10-07 02:17:09 +0200 | <qrpnxz> | specialization and inlining optimizations that stream fusion relies on are still very much applicable in this case. |
| 2022-10-07 02:18:36 +0200 | gurkenglas | (~gurkengla@p548ac72e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 02:18:41 +0200 | mixphix | (~mixphix@bras-base-otwaon237cw-grc-11-174-91-129-69.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 2022-10-07 02:18:48 +0200 | <Clinton[m]> | geekosaur: ah, I found that just `import qualified M ()` instead of `import M(x)` does the trick. `import qualified M ()` imports the typeclass instance that gives me the record selector syntax with `x` without bringing `x` as a function into scope. |
| 2022-10-07 02:19:05 +0200 | <qrpnxz> | (so i don't see a pithy rewrite rules for (streamList (build g)) but regular stream fusion optimizations still apply) |
| 2022-10-07 02:19:40 +0200 | Franciman | (~Franciman@mx1.fracta.dev) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-10-07 02:19:56 +0200 | Guest86 | (~Guest86@p200300ef9718356967cd5be491300607.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2022-10-07 02:20:03 +0200 | bitdex | (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-10-07 02:22:52 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@206-55-188-8.fttp.usinternet.com) |
| 2022-10-07 02:22:52 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@206-55-188-8.fttp.usinternet.com) (Changing host) |
| 2022-10-07 02:22:52 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) |
| 2022-10-07 02:22:59 +0200 | mixphix | (~mixphix@bras-base-otwaon237cw-grc-11-174-91-129-69.dsl.bell.ca) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 02:26:38 +0200 | justsomeguy | (~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy) |
| 2022-10-07 02:26:53 +0200 | gqplox | (~textual@97e654ef.skybroadband.com) (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2022-10-07 02:31:03 +0200 | <dminuoso> | hpc: But its also also smaller than 1, so it's going to be incredibly space efficient since it can't have any elements inside. |
| 2022-10-07 02:31:17 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Combined with the time-traveling lookup, it's a great boon. |
| 2022-10-07 02:33:49 +0200 | mtjm | (~mutantmel@2604:a880:2:d0::208b:d001) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-10-07 02:35:01 +0200 | mtjm | (~mutantmel@2604:a880:2:d0::208b:d001) |
| 2022-10-07 02:37:03 +0200 | stackdroid18 | (~stackdroi@user/stackdroid) (Quit: hasta la vista... tchau!) |
| 2022-10-07 02:39:40 +0200 | causal | (~user@2001:470:ea0f:3:329c:23ff:fe3f:1e0e) |
| 2022-10-07 02:40:43 +0200 | <Guest86> | dminuoso: Why is it not constant? O(min(n,W)) looks like O(sizeOfMap) or O(32) = O(1), whatever is smaller. |
| 2022-10-07 02:41:41 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Guest86: Do you see that n in there? |
| 2022-10-07 02:41:48 +0200 | <dminuoso> | That is just not constant. |
| 2022-10-07 02:42:09 +0200 | <dminuoso> | For a while its linear, then it becomes constant |
| 2022-10-07 02:42:24 +0200 | <dminuoso> | But overall that is not constant |
| 2022-10-07 02:42:46 +0200 | <EvanR> | in the spirit of dropping details like O does... I'm confused xD |
| 2022-10-07 02:43:20 +0200 | <geekosaur> | also this is not C; n is 64 on pretty much every platform these days |
| 2022-10-07 02:44:00 +0200 | <Guest86> | Ok, I read min(n,W) as the math function min{n,W}: take n or W, whatever is the smaller value. And since W is a constant n is only chosen if it's a smaller constant than 64. |
| 2022-10-07 02:44:08 +0200 | <EvanR> | so basically it's faster if you have less than 64 elements |
| 2022-10-07 02:44:55 +0200 | Franciman | (~Franciman@mx1.fracta.dev) |
| 2022-10-07 02:47:09 +0200 | <[Leary]> | Anything that eventually becomes constant really is O(1) though; big-O is the wrong tool for conveying non-asymptotic behaviour. |
| 2022-10-07 02:49:45 +0200 | <dminuoso> | [Leary]: Mmm you have a fair point. |
| 2022-10-07 02:50:15 +0200 | motherfsck | (~motherfsc@user/motherfsck) |
| 2022-10-07 02:50:17 +0200 | <dminuoso> | geekosaur: You meant *W is 64 on pretty much every platform. |
| 2022-10-07 02:50:29 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Not that confusing W with n is going to have a difference here. |
| 2022-10-07 02:50:47 +0200 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 02:51:07 +0200 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) |
| 2022-10-07 02:57:50 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net) (Quit: Lost terminal) |
| 2022-10-07 02:58:51 +0200 | mixphix | (~mixphix@bras-base-otwaon237cw-grc-11-174-91-129-69.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 2022-10-07 03:01:13 +0200 | Midjak | (~Midjak@82.66.147.146) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) |
| 2022-10-07 03:01:44 +0200 | __xor | (~xor@74.215.182.83) |
| 2022-10-07 03:02:07 +0200 | __xor | (~xor@74.215.182.83) (Client Quit) |
| 2022-10-07 03:08:42 +0200 | gqplox | (~textual@97e654ef.skybroadband.com) |
| 2022-10-07 03:08:42 +0200 | gqplox | (~textual@97e654ef.skybroadband.com) (Client Quit) |
| 2022-10-07 03:10:36 +0200 | justsomeguy | (~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy) (Quit: WeeChat 3.5) |
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| 2022-10-07 03:11:11 +0200 | justsomeguy | (~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy) |
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| 2022-10-07 03:11:59 +0200 | talismanick | (~talismani@2601:200:c100:c9e0::24ac) |
| 2022-10-07 03:14:31 +0200 | Erez | (~Erez@h-155-4-187-85.A412.priv.bahnhof.se) |
| 2022-10-07 03:17:02 +0200 | albet70 | (~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) |
| 2022-10-07 03:18:43 +0200 | Erez | (~Erez@h-155-4-187-85.A412.priv.bahnhof.se) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-10-07 03:20:41 +0200 | zebrag | (~chris@user/zebrag) (Quit: Konversation terminated!) |
| 2022-10-07 03:22:47 +0200 | burnsidesLlama | (~burnsides@client-8-86.eduroam.oxuni.org.uk) |
| 2022-10-07 03:23:43 +0200 | waleee | (~waleee@2001:9b0:213:7200:cc36:a556:b1e8:b340) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 03:24:10 +0200 | waleee | (~waleee@h-176-10-137-138.NA.cust.bahnhof.se) |
| 2022-10-07 03:27:46 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@ai071162.d.east.v6connect.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 03:28:36 +0200 | burnsidesLlama | (~burnsides@client-8-86.eduroam.oxuni.org.uk) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 03:29:07 +0200 | [itchyjunk] | (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 03:30:40 +0200 | beteigeuze | (~Thunderbi@a79-169-109-107.cpe.netcabo.pt) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 03:31:01 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:e519:421e:c827:31f) |
| 2022-10-07 03:31:10 +0200 | zebrag | (~chris@user/zebrag) |
| 2022-10-07 03:33:07 +0200 | [itchyjunk] | (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) |
| 2022-10-07 03:34:27 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 03:35:25 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:e519:421e:c827:31f) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 03:36:40 +0200 | <justsomeguy> | I just ran :info Array in ghci, and the first line is type role Array nominal representational ...what does that mean? |
| 2022-10-07 03:39:49 +0200 | <justsomeguy> | Oh boy... I just found the haskellwiki page on roles ... I give up already. |
| 2022-10-07 03:40:18 +0200 | bastelfreak | (bastelfrea@libera/staff/VoxPupuli.bastelfreak) (Ping timeout: 600 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 03:40:36 +0200 | <[Leary]> | justsomeguy: It just means you have `Coercible b b' => Coercible (Array a b) (Array a b')`. |
| 2022-10-07 03:41:33 +0200 | son0p | (~ff@181.136.122.143) |
| 2022-10-07 03:43:12 +0200 | <[Leary]> | The wiki page makes it look more complicated than it is; the Data.Coercible haddocks are straightforward. |
| 2022-10-07 03:45:42 +0200 | justsomeguy | looks up Coercible on Hoogle. |
| 2022-10-07 03:52:25 +0200 | rockystone | (~rocky@user/rockymarine) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 03:53:43 +0200 | bitmapper | (uid464869@id-464869.lymington.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2022-10-07 03:53:57 +0200 | sayola | (~sayola@dslb-088-064-186-217.088.064.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
| 2022-10-07 03:54:08 +0200 | ddellacosta | (~ddellacos@static-198-44-136-116.cust.tzulo.com) |
| 2022-10-07 03:55:06 +0200 | <EvanR> | translating coercibility through Array is giving me flashbacks to subtyping variance annotations |
| 2022-10-07 03:55:16 +0200 | <EvanR> | probably not related |
| 2022-10-07 04:02:34 +0200 | [itchyjunk] | (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-10-07 04:05:13 +0200 | rockystone | (~rocky@user/rockymarine) |
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| 2022-10-07 04:08:53 +0200 | smol-hors | (sid524992@smol/hors) () |
| 2022-10-07 04:12:56 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@125x103x176x34.ap125.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) |
| 2022-10-07 04:14:30 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:e519:421e:c827:31f) |
| 2022-10-07 04:21:11 +0200 | raehik1 | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 04:22:33 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@206-55-188-8.fttp.usinternet.com) |
| 2022-10-07 04:22:33 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@206-55-188-8.fttp.usinternet.com) (Changing host) |
| 2022-10-07 04:22:34 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) |
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| 2022-10-07 04:37:54 +0200 | FinnElija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Killed (NickServ (Forcing logout FinnElija -> finn_elija))) |
| 2022-10-07 04:37:54 +0200 | FinnElija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) |
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| 2022-10-07 04:38:38 +0200 | justsomeguy | (~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy) (Quit: WeeChat 3.5) |
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| 2022-10-07 08:50:13 +0200 | gmg | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) |
| 2022-10-07 08:50:16 +0200 | tcard | (~tcard@2400:4051:5801:7500:19ce:ed82:2ab7:90f9) |
| 2022-10-07 08:51:47 +0200 | rockystone | (~rocky@user/rockymarine) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 08:56:52 +0200 | MajorBiscuit | (~MajorBisc@c-001-011-059.client.tudelft.eduvpn.nl) |
| 2022-10-07 08:58:29 +0200 | lortabac | (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:3e7a:9e2c:d400:8ce1) |
| 2022-10-07 08:59:12 +0200 | rockystone | (~rocky@user/rockymarine) |
| 2022-10-07 09:01:21 +0200 | zeenk | (~zeenk@2a02:2f04:a20a:3e00:5712:52b0:ca1d:bc63) |
| 2022-10-07 09:02:01 +0200 | Erez | (~Erez@h-155-4-187-85.A980.priv.bahnhof.se) |
| 2022-10-07 09:03:07 +0200 | [itchyjunk] | (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) |
| 2022-10-07 09:06:04 +0200 | <dminuoso> | While they left, the GHC manual has an fairly good description. |
| 2022-10-07 09:06:19 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Based on the various questions we get, I feel the GHC manual is not consulted often enough |
| 2022-10-07 09:06:21 +0200 | Erez | (~Erez@h-155-4-187-85.A980.priv.bahnhof.se) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-10-07 09:06:24 +0200 | <dminuoso> | It's so well written.. |
| 2022-10-07 09:06:57 +0200 | Erez | (~Erez@h-155-4-187-85.A980.priv.bahnhof.se) |
| 2022-10-07 09:07:00 +0200 | Erez | (~Erez@h-155-4-187-85.A980.priv.bahnhof.se) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-10-07 09:08:34 +0200 | Erez | (~Erez@h-155-4-187-85.A980.priv.bahnhof.se) |
| 2022-10-07 09:17:53 +0200 | rockystone | (~rocky@user/rockymarine) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 09:20:23 +0200 | azimut | (~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 09:24:43 +0200 | <c_wraith> | people are just used to manuals being useless |
| 2022-10-07 09:26:47 +0200 | lottaquestions_ | (~nick@104.221.24.83) (Quit: Konversation terminated!) |
| 2022-10-07 09:27:07 +0200 | lottaquestions_ | (~nick@2607:fa49:503e:7100:17df:3c92:219a:a0dd) |
| 2022-10-07 09:30:15 +0200 | <sm> | +1! @where ghc-guide , or haskell-links.org/ghc-guide is an easy way to cite it |
| 2022-10-07 09:30:36 +0200 | ft | (~ft@p3e9bc57b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2022-10-07 09:34:53 +0200 | rockystone | (~rocky@user/rockymarine) |
| 2022-10-07 09:35:25 +0200 | mvk | (~mvk@2607:fea8:5ce3:8500::778c) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 09:36:35 +0200 | tzh | (~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz) |
| 2022-10-07 09:40:29 +0200 | fjMSX | (~hypni2p@2.92.213.55) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-10-07 09:42:04 +0200 | <dminuoso> | @where ghc-guide |
| 2022-10-07 09:42:04 +0200 | <lambdabot> | https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/latest/docs/html/users_guide |
| 2022-10-07 09:52:26 +0200 | tcard | (~tcard@2400:4051:5801:7500:19ce:ed82:2ab7:90f9) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 09:58:27 +0200 | aliosablack | (~chomwitt@94.66.62.161) |
| 2022-10-07 10:00:14 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net) |
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| 2022-10-07 10:10:41 +0200 | rockystone | (~rocky@user/rockymarine) |
| 2022-10-07 10:11:07 +0200 | _xor | (~xor@74.215.182.83) (Quit: bbiab) |
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| 2022-10-07 10:17:09 +0200 | burnsidesLlama | (~burnsides@client-8-86.eduroam.oxuni.org.uk) |
| 2022-10-07 10:17:34 +0200 | titibandit | (~titibandi@xdsl-89-0-65-2.nc.de) |
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| 2022-10-07 10:28:57 +0200 | aliosablack | (~chomwitt@94.66.62.161) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
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| 2022-10-07 10:35:35 +0200 | vpan | (~0@212.117.1.172) |
| 2022-10-07 10:35:53 +0200 | Everything | (~Everythin@37.115.210.35) |
| 2022-10-07 10:37:01 +0200 | Erez | (~Erez@h-155-4-187-85.A980.priv.bahnhof.se) |
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| 2022-10-07 10:55:08 +0200 | Erez | (~Erez@h-155-4-187-85.A980.priv.bahnhof.se) |
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| 2022-10-07 11:04:33 +0200 | Franciman | (~Franciman@mx1.fracta.dev) |
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| 2022-10-07 11:14:03 +0200 | tcard | (~tcard@p1153206-ipngn11001hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp) |
| 2022-10-07 11:15:45 +0200 | ubert | (~Thunderbi@77.119.205.166.wireless.dyn.drei.com) |
| 2022-10-07 11:15:50 +0200 | titibandit | (~titibandi@xdsl-89-0-65-2.nc.de) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 2022-10-07 11:15:59 +0200 | tcard_ | (~tcard@2400:4051:5801:7500:19ce:ed82:2ab7:90f9) |
| 2022-10-07 11:16:42 +0200 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7137a80d13b76c6af76f1e0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 11:18:45 +0200 | tcard | (~tcard@p1153206-ipngn11001hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 11:21:46 +0200 | aliosablack | (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc14:6e00:43e8:683d:d9ee:e96a) |
| 2022-10-07 11:22:16 +0200 | talismanick | (~talismani@2601:200:c100:c9e0::24ac) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 11:22:24 +0200 | <sm> | not so memorable otherwise |
| 2022-10-07 11:26:49 +0200 | <sm> | @where+ ghc-guide https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/users_guide/ |
| 2022-10-07 11:28:29 +0200 | Erez | (~Erez@h-155-4-187-85.A980.priv.bahnhof.se) |
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| 2022-10-07 11:47:22 +0200 | Franciman | (~Franciman@mx1.fracta.dev) |
| 2022-10-07 11:52:32 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@104-55-37-220.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) |
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| 2022-10-07 11:58:08 +0200 | Lycurgus | (~juan@user/Lycurgus) |
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| 2022-10-07 12:04:51 +0200 | infinity0 | (~infinity0@185.112.146.113) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 12:05:01 +0200 | raehik1 | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) |
| 2022-10-07 12:07:44 +0200 | Lycurgus | (~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: Exeunt juan@acm.org) |
| 2022-10-07 12:10:00 +0200 | freeside | (~mengwong@202.161.55.11) |
| 2022-10-07 12:10:27 +0200 | pgray_ | (~pgray@c-24-143-114-36.customer.broadstripe.net) |
| 2022-10-07 12:11:11 +0200 | pgray__ | (~pgray@c-24-143-114-36.customer.broadstripe.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-10-07 12:11:41 +0200 | <freeside> | hi all, I was working through the State Monad example involving Random, and I thought, hey, what if I could just pass my pure inner function an infinite stream of random numbers, so the inner function can stay pure? Well, I tried it, and I ended up ^C'ing an infinite loop. https://github.com/smucclaw/sandbox/blob/default/mengwong/burrito/src/Lib.hs#L77 |
| 2022-10-07 12:13:03 +0200 | <freeside> | in the example here I am trying to add unique id attributes to a bunch of XHTML. It works when my inner function is in IO. It works when I hand my inner function a finite list of randomly generated IDs. It hangs when I try to construct an infinite list of random IDs. I thought laziness would be my friend here ... ? |
| 2022-10-07 12:14:20 +0200 | titibandit | (~titibandi@xdsl-89-0-65-2.nc.de) |
| 2022-10-07 12:15:39 +0200 | <lyxia> | laziness and io don't mix |
| 2022-10-07 12:15:49 +0200 | <lyxia> | repeatM in IO will run forever |
| 2022-10-07 12:15:55 +0200 | <Franciman> | does laziness mix with parallelism? |
| 2022-10-07 12:15:57 +0200 | <Franciman> | i don't think |
| 2022-10-07 12:16:04 +0200 | Erez | (~Erez@h-155-4-187-85.A980.priv.bahnhof.se) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 12:16:08 +0200 | <Franciman> | laziness mixes only with single threaded purity |
| 2022-10-07 12:16:34 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@125x103x176x34.ap125.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 12:16:45 +0200 | <probie> | Most IO functions are not lazy. You can might be able to make this work with unsafeInterleaveIO https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.17.0.0/docs/System-IO-Unsafe.html#v:unsafeInterleaveIO |
| 2022-10-07 12:18:28 +0200 | <freeside> | gotcha, thank you. |
| 2022-10-07 12:18:58 +0200 | <probie> | s/can might/might/ |
| 2022-10-07 12:19:01 +0200 | <byorgey> | the better way is to directly use 'randoms' or 'randomRs' to generate an infinite list of random numbers. |
| 2022-10-07 12:19:15 +0200 | <byorgey> | instead of trying to execute an infinite list of IO actions. |
| 2022-10-07 12:19:35 +0200 | slydacyfa | (~IceChat95@pa49-197-58-11.pa.qld.optusnet.com.au) |
| 2022-10-07 12:21:19 +0200 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 12:21:24 +0200 | ulvarref` | (~user@185.24.53.152) |
| 2022-10-07 12:22:10 +0200 | <freeside> | mmm, i will try that, thank you. |
| 2022-10-07 12:22:42 +0200 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) |
| 2022-10-07 12:22:59 +0200 | ulvarrefr | (~user@188.124.56.153) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 12:28:04 +0200 | Erez | (~Erez@h-155-4-187-85.A980.priv.bahnhof.se) |
| 2022-10-07 12:30:58 +0200 | <lyxia> | freeside: "par" is a pretty neat combinator for evaluating thunks in parallel, so I'd say yes, laziness mixes with parallelism. |
| 2022-10-07 12:31:32 +0200 | burnsidesLlama | (~burnsides@client-8-86.eduroam.oxuni.org.uk) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-10-07 12:31:43 +0200 | <lyxia> | Franciman: that was for you ^ |
| 2022-10-07 12:32:12 +0200 | Erez | (~Erez@h-155-4-187-85.A980.priv.bahnhof.se) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 12:32:32 +0200 | burnsidesLlama | (~burnsides@client-8-86.eduroam.oxuni.org.uk) |
| 2022-10-07 12:32:37 +0200 | <Franciman> | lyxia: how does it deal with this programme? let x = thunk in 1 + x `par` x + 5 ? |
| 2022-10-07 12:32:42 +0200 | burnsidesLlama | (~burnsides@client-8-86.eduroam.oxuni.org.uk) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-10-07 12:32:48 +0200 | slydacyfa | (~IceChat95@pa49-197-58-11.pa.qld.optusnet.com.au) () |
| 2022-10-07 12:33:40 +0200 | <Hecate> | hi from MuniHac <3 |
| 2022-10-07 12:38:43 +0200 | beteigeuze | (~Thunderbi@a79-169-109-107.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 2022-10-07 12:38:54 +0200 | Erez | (~Erez@h-155-4-187-85.A980.priv.bahnhof.se) |
| 2022-10-07 12:39:16 +0200 | ulvarref` | (~user@185.24.53.152) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 12:39:41 +0200 | econo | (uid147250@user/econo) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2022-10-07 12:41:52 +0200 | <lyxia> | Franciman: depending on a race condition, x will be evaluated either by a new thread, by the main thread, or by both. |
| 2022-10-07 12:42:04 +0200 | mixphix | (~mixphix@bras-base-otwaon237cw-grc-11-174-91-129-69.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 2022-10-07 12:42:07 +0200 | <Franciman> | and the other wil have to wait for the thunk |
| 2022-10-07 12:42:09 +0200 | <Franciman> | no? |
| 2022-10-07 12:42:13 +0200 | <lyxia> | Hecate: o/ |
| 2022-10-07 12:42:38 +0200 | <Franciman> | why both? |
| 2022-10-07 12:42:52 +0200 | <lyxia> | well that's the race condition I spoke about, both threads might start evaluating because they don't see each other starting |
| 2022-10-07 12:43:05 +0200 | burnsidesLlama | (~burnsides@client-8-86.eduroam.oxuni.org.uk) |
| 2022-10-07 12:43:21 +0200 | <Franciman> | so they can also modify the value at the same time, rendering an invalid result? |
| 2022-10-07 12:43:34 +0200 | Erez | (~Erez@h-155-4-187-85.A980.priv.bahnhof.se) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 12:43:35 +0200 | <Franciman> | or is an invalid result impossible? |
| 2022-10-07 12:43:47 +0200 | <lyxia> | no because this is supposed to be pure code so the value will be the same either way |
| 2022-10-07 12:43:57 +0200 | <lyxia> | there are no invalid results |
| 2022-10-07 12:44:19 +0200 | <Franciman> | ofc, but imagine intermixing complex operations on x, to compute x |
| 2022-10-07 12:44:32 +0200 | <Franciman> | even if they are pure, if you intermix them without control, they can render the final result invalid |
| 2022-10-07 12:45:00 +0200 | <lyxia> | and also nobody actually wants to use par on something that's just about to be evaluated on the main thread already |
| 2022-10-07 12:45:14 +0200 | Erez | (~Erez@h-155-4-187-85.A980.priv.bahnhof.se) |
| 2022-10-07 12:45:55 +0200 | <Franciman> | ok but this is a simplified example ... |
| 2022-10-07 12:45:57 +0200 | <Franciman> | well i understand |
| 2022-10-07 12:46:00 +0200 | <Franciman> | okaaaaaaaaaaaaaay |
| 2022-10-07 12:46:01 +0200 | <lyxia> | I'm not sure what you mean "if you intermix them without control" |
| 2022-10-07 12:46:30 +0200 | mixphix | (~mixphix@bras-base-otwaon237cw-grc-11-174-91-129-69.dsl.bell.ca) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 12:46:41 +0200 | __monty__ | (~toonn@user/toonn) |
| 2022-10-07 12:47:49 +0200 | ulvarrefr | (~user@188.124.56.153) |
| 2022-10-07 12:47:52 +0200 | burnsidesLlama | (~burnsides@client-8-86.eduroam.oxuni.org.uk) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-10-07 12:49:26 +0200 | Erez | (~Erez@h-155-4-187-85.A980.priv.bahnhof.se) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 12:51:53 +0200 | <freeside> | okay, randomRs is doing the right thing, but when i try to show Hex the Ints, I get the same thing over and over again, lolwut. https://github.com/smucclaw/sandbox/blob/default/mengwong/burrito/src/Lib.hs#L83 |
| 2022-10-07 12:53:48 +0200 | zer0bitz | (~zer0bitz@2001:2003:f748:2000:256e:c8ac:d70d:56f6) |
| 2022-10-07 12:56:59 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
| 2022-10-07 12:57:56 +0200 | jakalx | (~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) (Error from remote client) |
| 2022-10-07 13:01:09 +0200 | mixphix | (~mixphix@bras-base-otwaon237cw-grc-11-174-91-129-69.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 2022-10-07 13:01:09 +0200 | <lyxia> | why do you have repeat "" |
| 2022-10-07 13:01:13 +0200 | <[Leary]> | > (+) <$> [1..] <*> repeat 1 |
| 2022-10-07 13:01:15 +0200 | <lambdabot> | [2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2... |
| 2022-10-07 13:01:23 +0200 | <[Leary]> | > (+ 1) <$> [1..] |
| 2022-10-07 13:01:25 +0200 | <lambdabot> | [2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29... |
| 2022-10-07 13:01:29 +0200 | <freeside> | i was trying to get the ShowS to be a Show |
| 2022-10-07 13:01:52 +0200 | Erez | (~Erez@h-155-4-187-85.A980.priv.bahnhof.se) |
| 2022-10-07 13:02:02 +0200 | <lyxia> | I think you meant pure "", which is [""], not repeat "" |
| 2022-10-07 13:02:56 +0200 | <lyxia> | or do what [Leary] did |
| 2022-10-07 13:03:54 +0200 | razetime | (~quassel@117.193.4.113) |
| 2022-10-07 13:04:11 +0200 | <freeside> | gotcha, my bad |
| 2022-10-07 13:05:34 +0200 | jakalx | (~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) |
| 2022-10-07 13:06:48 +0200 | mixphix | (~mixphix@bras-base-otwaon237cw-grc-11-174-91-129-69.dsl.bell.ca) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 13:09:03 +0200 | titibandit | (~titibandi@xdsl-89-0-65-2.nc.de) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 2022-10-07 13:10:25 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:4104:ab75:8049:18d8) |
| 2022-10-07 13:14:12 +0200 | <ski> | > (getZipList . pure . ZipList) "" |
| 2022-10-07 13:14:14 +0200 | <lambdabot> | [ZipList {getZipList = ""},ZipList {getZipList = ""},ZipList {getZipList = "... |
| 2022-10-07 13:14:29 +0200 | <ski> | > (getZipList . pure) "" |
| 2022-10-07 13:14:31 +0200 | <lambdabot> | ["","","","","","","","","","","","","","","","","","","","","","","","","",... |
| 2022-10-07 13:16:55 +0200 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7137a80d19b135f341f3cf7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2022-10-07 13:17:55 +0200 | mixphix | (~mixphix@bras-base-otwaon237cw-grc-11-174-91-129-69.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 2022-10-07 13:20:26 +0200 | fjMSX | (~hypni2p@2.92.213.55) |
| 2022-10-07 13:21:10 +0200 | <ski> | freeside : you could also use (`showHex` "") <$> infWords |
| 2022-10-07 13:21:43 +0200 | <ski> | @type (`showHex` "") |
| 2022-10-07 13:21:44 +0200 | <lambdabot> | (Integral a, Show a) => a -> String |
| 2022-10-07 13:22:11 +0200 | mixphix | (~mixphix@bras-base-otwaon237cw-grc-11-174-91-129-69.dsl.bell.ca) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 13:27:10 +0200 | Erez | (~Erez@h-155-4-187-85.A980.priv.bahnhof.se) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-10-07 13:27:23 +0200 | <freeside> | neat, thanks. |
| 2022-10-07 13:28:48 +0200 | <ski> | other alternative ways of saying the same thing : |
| 2022-10-07 13:29:02 +0200 | <ski> | flip showHex "" <$> infWords |
| 2022-10-07 13:29:20 +0200 | <ski> | (showHex `flip` "") <$> infWords |
| 2022-10-07 13:29:33 +0200 | <ski> | (\n -> showHex n "") <$> infWords |
| 2022-10-07 13:33:47 +0200 | zaquest | (~notzaques@5.130.79.72) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-10-07 13:37:58 +0200 | freeside | (~mengwong@202.161.55.11) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 13:42:51 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:4104:ab75:8049:18d8) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 13:44:31 +0200 | Guest56 | (~Guest56@2001:a62:153a:a201:4317:4122:7383:8e29) |
| 2022-10-07 13:44:43 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@ai071162.d.east.v6connect.net) |
| 2022-10-07 13:54:27 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:e519:421e:c827:31f) |
| 2022-10-07 13:57:17 +0200 | azimut | (~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) |
| 2022-10-07 13:57:20 +0200 | vglfr | (~vglfr@37.73.106.237) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-10-07 13:58:59 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:e519:421e:c827:31f) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 14:00:14 +0200 | mixphix | (~mixphix@bras-base-otwaon237cw-grc-11-174-91-129-69.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 2022-10-07 14:00:25 +0200 | alexiscott | (~user@37.red-83-33-248.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) |
| 2022-10-07 14:01:30 +0200 | vglfr | (~vglfr@37.73.106.237) |
| 2022-10-07 14:01:53 +0200 | razetime | (~quassel@117.193.4.113) (Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.) |
| 2022-10-07 14:04:48 +0200 | mixphix | (~mixphix@bras-base-otwaon237cw-grc-11-174-91-129-69.dsl.bell.ca) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 14:08:16 +0200 | frost | (~frost@user/frost) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 14:09:03 +0200 | zaquest | (~notzaques@5.130.79.72) |
| 2022-10-07 14:10:38 +0200 | <ii8> | Is there a way to apply a monadic function to a value wrapped in a maybe, and then have the result be the Maybe value inside the monad? |
| 2022-10-07 14:10:50 +0200 | <ii8> | See here: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/Q6pNJ99r |
| 2022-10-07 14:11:12 +0200 | <dolio> | traverse |
| 2022-10-07 14:14:08 +0200 | <ii8> | dolio: ty ez |
| 2022-10-07 14:16:01 +0200 | Lycurgus | (~juan@user/Lycurgus) |
| 2022-10-07 14:19:47 +0200 | jmdaemon | (~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 14:20:57 +0200 | eN0n23eE4 | (eN0n23eE4@047-024-217-062.res.spectrum.com) |
| 2022-10-07 14:24:56 +0200 | albet70 | (~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-10-07 14:26:28 +0200 | <byorgey> | https://twitter.com/impurepics/status/1312158622302924801 the answer is always traverse |
| 2022-10-07 14:27:05 +0200 | <Hecate> | :D |
| 2022-10-07 14:27:45 +0200 | Lycurgus | (~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: Exeunt juan@acm.org) |
| 2022-10-07 14:28:09 +0200 | <byorgey> | Hecate: how's MuniHac? |
| 2022-10-07 14:29:09 +0200 | <Hecate> | byorgey: it's lovely, thank you! |
| 2022-10-07 14:29:15 +0200 | <Hecate> | I've got some people at the Flora table |
| 2022-10-07 14:29:26 +0200 | <Hecate> | and met some rock stars (^_^) |
| 2022-10-07 14:31:03 +0200 | albet70 | (~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) |
| 2022-10-07 14:33:05 +0200 | heinz9 | (~trace@user/trace) |
| 2022-10-07 14:33:11 +0200 | <heinz9> | what does f a mean |
| 2022-10-07 14:33:25 +0200 | <ski> | the function `f' applied to the argument `a' |
| 2022-10-07 14:35:40 +0200 | <heinz9> | thx |
| 2022-10-07 14:36:04 +0200 | <heinz9> | and a->b ist like a function pointer as a type? |
| 2022-10-07 14:36:48 +0200 | <ski> | it's a function type. the type of functions accepting values of type `a' as input, and producing values of type `b' as output |
| 2022-10-07 14:38:24 +0200 | eN0n23eE4 | (eN0n23eE4@047-024-217-062.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 14:38:25 +0200 | <ski> | in C, if you wanted to pass a function (as argument or result to another function, or if you wanted to store it in a data structure), you'd actually pass a "function pointer". the appropriate type for that in C is `b (*)(a)' (the corresponding non-pointer function type would be `b (a)') |
| 2022-10-07 14:38:47 +0200 | burnsidesLlama | (~burnsides@client-8-92.eduroam.oxuni.org.uk) |
| 2022-10-07 14:38:57 +0200 | <ski> | but there's no need to do "function pointers" in Haskell (unless you're usinng the FFI. then there's `FunPtr') |
| 2022-10-07 14:40:44 +0200 | <ski> | @type Foreign.Ptr.nullFunPtr |
| 2022-10-07 14:40:45 +0200 | <lambdabot> | GHC.Ptr.FunPtr a |
| 2022-10-07 14:40:47 +0200 | <ski> | @type Foreign.Ptr.freeHaskellFunPtr |
| 2022-10-07 14:40:49 +0200 | <lambdabot> | GHC.Ptr.FunPtr a -> IO () |
| 2022-10-07 14:43:04 +0200 | mixphix | (~mixphix@bras-base-otwaon237cw-grc-11-174-91-129-69.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 2022-10-07 14:46:36 +0200 | bitdex | (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Quit: = "") |
| 2022-10-07 14:48:03 +0200 | freeside | (~mengwong@bb115-66-48-84.singnet.com.sg) |
| 2022-10-07 14:48:15 +0200 | jao | (~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net) |
| 2022-10-07 14:52:44 +0200 | freeside | (~mengwong@bb115-66-48-84.singnet.com.sg) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 14:53:34 +0200 | mixphix | (~mixphix@bras-base-otwaon237cw-grc-11-174-91-129-69.dsl.bell.ca) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 14:57:32 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Beautiful. I have a memory corruption. :( |
| 2022-10-07 14:57:46 +0200 | Guest34 | (~Guest34@p5b0627ab.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2022-10-07 14:58:06 +0200 | ft | (~ft@p3e9bc57b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2022-10-07 14:58:34 +0200 | zebrag | (~chris@user/zebrag) |
| 2022-10-07 14:59:02 +0200 | <dminuoso> | And its not of the crashing kind, these you could debug. Its of the "debug routine keeps pointing at the wrong thing" |
| 2022-10-07 14:59:17 +0200 | <dminuoso> | This has aliased buffer written all over it. |
| 2022-10-07 14:59:32 +0200 | littlefinger | (~littlefin@pool-100-15-237-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 2022-10-07 15:03:01 +0200 | mixphix | (~mixphix@bras-base-otwaon237cw-grc-11-174-91-129-69.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 2022-10-07 15:03:23 +0200 | mbuf | (~Shakthi@49.204.120.232) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2022-10-07 15:07:37 +0200 | mixphix | (~mixphix@bras-base-otwaon237cw-grc-11-174-91-129-69.dsl.bell.ca) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 15:08:06 +0200 | gqplox | (~textual@97e654ef.skybroadband.com) |
| 2022-10-07 15:13:09 +0200 | waleee | (~waleee@2001:9b0:213:7200:cc36:a556:b1e8:b340) |
| 2022-10-07 15:28:41 +0200 | vglfr | (~vglfr@37.73.106.237) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 15:28:46 +0200 | gmg | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 15:30:11 +0200 | _xor | (~xor@74.215.182.83) |
| 2022-10-07 15:30:16 +0200 | gmg | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) |
| 2022-10-07 15:30:20 +0200 | vglfr | (~vglfr@145.224.100.100) |
| 2022-10-07 15:30:36 +0200 | freeside | (~mengwong@bb115-66-48-84.singnet.com.sg) |
| 2022-10-07 15:32:46 +0200 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7137a80d19b135f341f3cf7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 15:35:52 +0200 | gqplox | (~textual@97e654ef.skybroadband.com) (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2022-10-07 15:36:57 +0200 | gqplox | (~textual@97e654ef.skybroadband.com) |
| 2022-10-07 15:41:11 +0200 | eN0n23eE4 | (eN0n23eE4@047-024-217-062.res.spectrum.com) |
| 2022-10-07 15:43:05 +0200 | gqplox | (~textual@97e654ef.skybroadband.com) (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2022-10-07 15:43:19 +0200 | <ii8> | Is there a cooler way to write this: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/PM5lAfc8 |
| 2022-10-07 15:43:27 +0200 | kilolympus | (~kilolympu@213.144.144.24) |
| 2022-10-07 15:45:35 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:e519:421e:c827:31f) |
| 2022-10-07 15:45:45 +0200 | <[Leary]> | :t \a -> liftA2 (<>) a . pure |
| 2022-10-07 15:45:47 +0200 | <lambdabot> | (Applicative f, Semigroup c) => f c -> c -> f c |
| 2022-10-07 15:45:50 +0200 | <[Leary]> | Perhaps. |
| 2022-10-07 15:47:53 +0200 | <[Leary]> | :t \a b -> a <&> (<> b) |
| 2022-10-07 15:47:55 +0200 | <lambdabot> | (Functor f, Semigroup b) => f b -> b -> f b |
| 2022-10-07 15:48:18 +0200 | mixphix | (~mixphix@bras-base-otwaon237cw-grc-11-174-91-129-69.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 2022-10-07 15:48:48 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@206-55-188-8.fttp.usinternet.com) |
| 2022-10-07 15:48:48 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@206-55-188-8.fttp.usinternet.com) (Changing host) |
| 2022-10-07 15:48:48 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) |
| 2022-10-07 15:49:05 +0200 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7137a80998e89214fca01fd.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2022-10-07 15:49:23 +0200 | <chreekat> | Semigroup a => Semigroup (Maybe a) |
| 2022-10-07 15:50:03 +0200 | geekosaur | would note that sometimes "coller" is the wrong way to go. "code you'll understand 6 months down the road" is often better |
| 2022-10-07 15:50:11 +0200 | <geekosaur> | *cooler |
| 2022-10-07 15:51:57 +0200 | <chreekat> | ah I see, the default instance for Maybe doesn't propagate the Nothing |
| 2022-10-07 15:53:04 +0200 | mixphix | (~mixphix@bras-base-otwaon237cw-grc-11-174-91-129-69.dsl.bell.ca) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 15:53:59 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Whats the primitive to unshare bytestring buffers? |
| 2022-10-07 15:55:35 +0200 | <ii8> | [Leary]: thanks! |
| 2022-10-07 15:58:50 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:e519:421e:c827:31f) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-10-07 16:01:46 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 16:05:32 +0200 | k8yun | (~k8yun@user/k8yun) |
| 2022-10-07 16:07:15 +0200 | eN0n23eE4 | (eN0n23eE4@047-024-217-062.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 16:18:12 +0200 | son0p | (~ff@181.136.122.143) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 16:19:05 +0200 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) |
| 2022-10-07 16:22:25 +0200 | alexiscott | (~user@37.red-83-33-248.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 16:26:52 +0200 | kenran | (~user@user/kenran) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-10-07 16:30:27 +0200 | waleee | (~waleee@2001:9b0:213:7200:cc36:a556:b1e8:b340) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 16:33:57 +0200 | fserucas | (~fserucas@2001:818:e376:a400:fb92:70c1:dd88:c7d7) |
| 2022-10-07 16:34:15 +0200 | fserucas | (~fserucas@2001:818:e376:a400:fb92:70c1:dd88:c7d7) (Client Quit) |
| 2022-10-07 16:39:27 +0200 | burnsidesLlama | (~burnsides@client-8-92.eduroam.oxuni.org.uk) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-10-07 16:43:18 +0200 | odnes | (~odnes@5-203-228-11.pat.nym.cosmote.net) |
| 2022-10-07 16:45:09 +0200 | FragByte_ | (~christian@user/fragbyte) |
| 2022-10-07 16:47:35 +0200 | FragByte | (~christian@user/fragbyte) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 16:47:35 +0200 | FragByte_ | FragByte |
| 2022-10-07 16:48:41 +0200 | zns | (~zns@user/zns) |
| 2022-10-07 16:49:32 +0200 | <EvanR> | dminuoso, copy? |
| 2022-10-07 16:50:57 +0200 | burnsidesLlama | (~burnsides@client-8-92.eduroam.oxuni.org.uk) |
| 2022-10-07 16:52:07 +0200 | burnsidesLlama | (~burnsides@client-8-92.eduroam.oxuni.org.uk) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-10-07 16:52:31 +0200 | odnes | (~odnes@5-203-228-11.pat.nym.cosmote.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 16:56:46 +0200 | zns | (~zns@user/zns) (Quit: zzz) |
| 2022-10-07 16:57:19 +0200 | mixphix | (~mixphix@bras-base-otwaon237cw-grc-11-174-91-129-69.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 2022-10-07 16:58:31 +0200 | zns | (~zns@user/zns) |
| 2022-10-07 16:59:21 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:e519:421e:c827:31f) |
| 2022-10-07 17:01:40 +0200 | mixphix | (~mixphix@bras-base-otwaon237cw-grc-11-174-91-129-69.dsl.bell.ca) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 17:03:46 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:e519:421e:c827:31f) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 17:07:59 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2022-10-07 17:09:25 +0200 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!) |
| 2022-10-07 17:12:01 +0200 | gensyst | (gensyst@user/gensyst) |
| 2022-10-07 17:14:33 +0200 | <gensyst> | We have "newForeignPtr :: FinalizerPtr a -> Ptr a -> IO (ForeignPtr a)", and "type FinalizerPtr a = FunPtr (Ptr a -> IO ())". But how can I create a foreign pointer when the close function is of type Ptr a -> IO CInt and I want to throw an exception in IO if the returned CInt is not 0? |
| 2022-10-07 17:15:24 +0200 | chele | (~chele@user/chele) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-10-07 17:15:33 +0200 | <gensyst> | hmmm. maybe that makes little sense? since it's GC and could be called any time, and so throwing exception sometime down the line is meaningless? |
| 2022-10-07 17:16:10 +0200 | shriekingnoise | (~shrieking@186.137.167.202) |
| 2022-10-07 17:18:14 +0200 | <EvanR> | not meaningless, we have async exceptions that can technically do that |
| 2022-10-07 17:18:23 +0200 | <EvanR> | would it be insane, maybe |
| 2022-10-07 17:19:01 +0200 | <EvanR> | first question, which thread gets the exception |
| 2022-10-07 17:19:21 +0200 | bgs | (~bgs@212-85-160-171.dynamic.telemach.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-10-07 17:19:28 +0200 | <EvanR> | once you answer this, make that thread responsible for the foreign resource anyway |
| 2022-10-07 17:21:03 +0200 | <EvanR> | finalizers are probably better used for cleaning up resources at gc time, rather than crashing |
| 2022-10-07 17:21:35 +0200 | <gensyst> | EvanR, i mean the "expected" result of that C func will be 0, but it could also not be (imo rare cases) |
| 2022-10-07 17:21:39 +0200 | mixphix | (~mixphix@bras-base-otwaon237cw-grc-11-174-91-129-69.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 2022-10-07 17:22:00 +0200 | <gensyst> | ok I know what to do. I'm better off replacing my thing with a "with" thingy |
| 2022-10-07 17:22:12 +0200 | <gensyst> | so no foreignptr needed |
| 2022-10-07 17:23:37 +0200 | <EvanR> | yeah a bracket that acquires the resource, and regardless of how the story ends, cleans up the resource afteward |
| 2022-10-07 17:23:38 +0200 | jakalx | (~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) (Error from remote client) |
| 2022-10-07 17:25:55 +0200 | jakalx | (~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) |
| 2022-10-07 17:26:16 +0200 | mixphix | (~mixphix@bras-base-otwaon237cw-grc-11-174-91-129-69.dsl.bell.ca) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 17:32:08 +0200 | gmg | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2022-10-07 17:40:52 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
| 2022-10-07 17:42:19 +0200 | lortabac | (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:3e7a:9e2c:d400:8ce1) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8) |
| 2022-10-07 17:45:37 +0200 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@p200300c95700eb002a3a4dfffe84dbd5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: CiaoSen) |
| 2022-10-07 17:46:14 +0200 | olle | (~olle@p57849f17.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2022-10-07 17:46:25 +0200 | <olle> | Are haskell devs actually coding like this? https://degoes.net/articles/modern-fp |
| 2022-10-07 17:47:39 +0200 | <geekosaur> | free monads are fairly common, yes |
| 2022-10-07 17:47:47 +0200 | <geekosaur> | that doesn't mean everyone is using them |
| 2022-10-07 17:48:01 +0200 | <olle> | Hm |
| 2022-10-07 17:49:09 +0200 | <oats> | olle, holy christ that guy is ripped |
| 2022-10-07 17:49:09 +0200 | <olle> | I wanna do it in PHP |
| 2022-10-07 17:50:02 +0200 | <EvanR> | how about other way around, acme-php backage |
| 2022-10-07 17:50:04 +0200 | <EvanR> | package |
| 2022-10-07 17:50:13 +0200 | <olle> | http://olleharstedt.github.io/programming/2022/03/22/one-universal-mock-to-rule-them-all.html |
| 2022-10-07 17:50:16 +0200 | <olle> | Did try one concept here |
| 2022-10-07 17:51:02 +0200 | <oats> | olle, I'm also a little annoyed by the opening of that article |
| 2022-10-07 17:51:16 +0200 | <oats> | you can write poor code in any language, with any paradigm |
| 2022-10-07 17:51:32 +0200 | <olle> | So far, yes |
| 2022-10-07 17:51:33 +0200 | <oats> | poor function naming, undescriptive argument names, boolean blindness... |
| 2022-10-07 17:51:46 +0200 | <olle> | AI will solve it ;) |
| 2022-10-07 17:51:50 +0200 | <oats> | what |
| 2022-10-07 17:52:04 +0200 | <olle> | Domain-consiouss AI linters |
| 2022-10-07 17:53:01 +0200 | <EvanR> | are you really going to take seriously the intro to that blog post when the guy looks like vin diesel |
| 2022-10-07 17:53:25 +0200 | <olle> | Haha so distracting, those muscles |
| 2022-10-07 17:53:48 +0200 | <EvanR> | do you take general relativity quantum mechanics tips from Riddick |
| 2022-10-07 17:54:47 +0200 | <olle> | Those two can't be combined..... |
| 2022-10-07 17:58:45 +0200 | <EvanR> | yet |
| 2022-10-07 17:59:30 +0200 | <EvanR> | also that only makes Riddick even less credible |
| 2022-10-07 18:00:07 +0200 | mixphix | (~mixphix@bras-base-otwaon237cw-grc-11-174-91-129-69.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 2022-10-07 18:00:10 +0200 | k8yun | (~k8yun@user/k8yun) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2022-10-07 18:04:01 +0200 | <gensyst> | lol "Come on, this is 2015. We can do better than IO!" wtf |
| 2022-10-07 18:04:11 +0200 | <gensyst> | so what's happening now 7 years later? |
| 2022-10-07 18:04:30 +0200 | <gensyst> | free moands catching on now? |
| 2022-10-07 18:05:59 +0200 | mixphix | (~mixphix@bras-base-otwaon237cw-grc-11-174-91-129-69.dsl.bell.ca) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 18:06:25 +0200 | Everything | (~Everythin@37.115.210.35) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2022-10-07 18:07:34 +0200 | mixphix | (~mixphix@bras-base-otwaon237cw-grc-11-174-91-129-69.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 2022-10-07 18:08:28 +0200 | <EvanR> | lazy list IO => monads => free monads => comonad IO? xD |
| 2022-10-07 18:08:43 +0200 | <olle> | Freer monad? |
| 2022-10-07 18:09:09 +0200 | <olle> | Dijkstra Monads for All? |
| 2022-10-07 18:09:21 +0200 | <EvanR> | funny the free monad version of IO is more restrictive than IO |
| 2022-10-07 18:09:21 +0200 | <olle> | https://arxiv.org/abs/1903.01237 |
| 2022-10-07 18:09:45 +0200 | <EvanR> | maybe if we use restrictive monads, we become actually more freer |
| 2022-10-07 18:10:17 +0200 | <olle> | You don't want freedom, you want correctness |
| 2022-10-07 18:10:23 +0200 | <gensyst> | Free monads sounds scary. Is this something special, or just a design pattern that can be done with "simple Haskell"? |
| 2022-10-07 18:10:29 +0200 | <EvanR> | correct. freedom is slavery |
| 2022-10-07 18:10:59 +0200 | <EvanR> | gensyst, it's pretty simple as far as outlandish abstract nonsense can go around here |
| 2022-10-07 18:11:20 +0200 | econo | (uid147250@user/econo) |
| 2022-10-07 18:11:28 +0200 | <EvanR> | but packages like freer will help you get the most performance in the process |
| 2022-10-07 18:12:01 +0200 | <EvanR> | if you are planning to run free monads directly |
| 2022-10-07 18:13:10 +0200 | <EvanR> | gensyst, just like monads tutorials though... you want to look at free functor first |
| 2022-10-07 18:13:29 +0200 | <EvanR> | people never think to read functor tutorials xD |
| 2022-10-07 18:13:41 +0200 | <gensyst> | ok... |
| 2022-10-07 18:13:44 +0200 | <heinz9> | has someone a very complex use case about a functor, that demonstrates functors usefulness? |
| 2022-10-07 18:14:03 +0200 | <gensyst> | i'll let this rest for a while |
| 2022-10-07 18:14:06 +0200 | <gensyst> | no time for this lol |
| 2022-10-07 18:14:18 +0200 | <EvanR> | functors are all around you |
| 2022-10-07 18:14:20 +0200 | <sm> | that ripped guy is a good haskell writer |
| 2022-10-07 18:16:08 +0200 | mixphix | (~mixphix@bras-base-otwaon237cw-grc-11-174-91-129-69.dsl.bell.ca) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 18:16:28 +0200 | <c_wraith> | heinz9: amusingly, you can sort of see Lens as the complex use case for Functor. |
| 2022-10-07 18:16:36 +0200 | tzh | (~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 2022-10-07 18:18:26 +0200 | gqplox | (~textual@97e654ef.skybroadband.com) |
| 2022-10-07 18:23:01 +0200 | <heinz9> | c_wraith, what is Lens |
| 2022-10-07 18:24:10 +0200 | Midjak | (~Midjak@82.66.147.146) |
| 2022-10-07 18:24:18 +0200 | <olle> | It's similar to an asshole |
| 2022-10-07 18:24:21 +0200 | <olle> | Nah |
| 2022-10-07 18:24:24 +0200 | <olle> | Time to go home |
| 2022-10-07 18:24:51 +0200 | olle | (~olle@p57849f17.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-10-07 18:25:15 +0200 | <EvanR> | that's the worst tutorial analogy yet |
| 2022-10-07 18:25:16 +0200 | <c_wraith> | lens is a library for data manipulation. The simplest portions are based on types like Functor f => (A -> f B) -> (S -> f T) |
| 2022-10-07 18:25:22 +0200 | teo | (~teo@user/teo) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 18:26:28 +0200 | <pareto-optimal-d> | Is there a better lensey way to write: view (non "") . maximumByOf (backwards worded) (compare `on` (sum . map (subtract 96 . ord))) $ "" |
| 2022-10-07 18:26:38 +0200 | zeenk | (~zeenk@2a02:2f04:a20a:3e00:5712:52b0:ca1d:bc63) (Quit: Konversation terminated!) |
| 2022-10-07 18:27:45 +0200 | mixphix | (~mixphix@bras-base-otwaon237cw-grc-11-174-91-129-69.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 2022-10-07 18:28:58 +0200 | littlefinger | (~littlefin@pool-100-15-237-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 18:28:59 +0200 | <c_wraith> | pareto-optimal-d: that code worries me anyway. what if your strings have anything other than lowercase letters and whitespace? |
| 2022-10-07 18:29:07 +0200 | MajorBiscuit | (~MajorBisc@c-001-011-059.client.tudelft.eduvpn.nl) (Quit: WeeChat 3.5) |
| 2022-10-07 18:30:13 +0200 | jao | (~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 18:30:16 +0200 | <pareto-optimal-d> | c_wraith: It's a codewars and it says "only has lowercase letters and whitespace" :D |
| 2022-10-07 18:30:56 +0200 | infinity0 | (~infinity0@185.112.146.113) |
| 2022-10-07 18:31:22 +0200 | gqplox | (~textual@97e654ef.skybroadband.com) (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2022-10-07 18:32:55 +0200 | zns | (~zns@user/zns) (Quit: zzz) |
| 2022-10-07 18:36:48 +0200 | <c_wraith> | I don't see any obvious improvement. Other than naming the comparator, anyway. |
| 2022-10-07 18:37:31 +0200 | causal | (~user@2001:470:ea0f:3:329c:23ff:fe3f:1e0e) (Quit: WeeChat 3.6) |
| 2022-10-07 18:37:44 +0200 | <pareto-optimal-d> | Yeah. Before `view (non "")` I just had `fromMaybe ""` but wonderd if `view (non "")` would be idiomatic lens for someone refusing to import Data.Maybe :P |
| 2022-10-07 18:38:09 +0200 | <pareto-optimal-d> | I should name the comparator |
| 2022-10-07 18:38:13 +0200 | mixphix | (~mixphix@bras-base-otwaon237cw-grc-11-174-91-129-69.dsl.bell.ca) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 18:38:31 +0200 | dzdcnfzd | (~dzdcnfzd@pool-72-69-177-248.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) |
| 2022-10-07 18:38:59 +0200 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7137a80998e89214fca01fd.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 18:40:44 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:e519:421e:c827:31f) |
| 2022-10-07 18:42:39 +0200 | bontaq | (~user@ool-45779fe5.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 2022-10-07 18:43:39 +0200 | jakalx | (~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) (Error from remote client) |
| 2022-10-07 18:43:57 +0200 | gqplox | (~textual@97e654ef.skybroadband.com) |
| 2022-10-07 18:44:28 +0200 | zns | (~zns@user/zns) |
| 2022-10-07 18:47:14 +0200 | <heinz9> | are functors in general good for automation? |
| 2022-10-07 18:48:45 +0200 | jakalx | (~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) |
| 2022-10-07 18:49:26 +0200 | <c_wraith> | That's a sort of odd question. Are numbers in general good for automation? |
| 2022-10-07 18:49:28 +0200 | <davean> | heinz9: what does that even mean? |
| 2022-10-07 18:50:12 +0200 | <heinz9> | Idk, just guessing |
| 2022-10-07 18:50:26 +0200 | <davean> | I'm not even sure what you're guessing |
| 2022-10-07 18:51:36 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:e519:421e:c827:31f) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-10-07 18:51:37 +0200 | <davean> | they make more things "look the same" for a particular sort of thing that is very general, so maybe if you mean the right thing by right thing by "automation" |
| 2022-10-07 18:51:57 +0200 | <davean> | its kinda nonsensicle but it might be right if you happen to mean the right thing by it |
| 2022-10-07 18:53:55 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2022-10-07 18:55:19 +0200 | <heinz9> | davean, this is helping me |
| 2022-10-07 18:55:32 +0200 | mixphix | (~mixphix@bras-base-otwaon237cw-grc-11-174-91-129-69.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 2022-10-07 18:55:57 +0200 | <EvanR> | language hasn't caught up with how good functors are for what |
| 2022-10-07 18:56:41 +0200 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7137a27998e89214fca01fd.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2022-10-07 18:57:31 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:e519:421e:c827:31f) |
| 2022-10-07 18:57:37 +0200 | cheater | (~Username@user/cheater) (Quit: HEY! Must be the BitchX!) |
| 2022-10-07 18:57:40 +0200 | <EvanR> | however pictures are great |
| 2022-10-07 18:58:03 +0200 | vpan | (~0@212.117.1.172) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 2022-10-07 19:03:40 +0200 | <geekosaur> | you could say functors are good at manipulating data in a way that makes many different kinds of manipulations fit a common "schema". and most programs are about manipulating data |
| 2022-10-07 19:04:57 +0200 | <geekosaur> | as c_wraith pointed out earlier, lens is kinda taking that to the limit and using functors to manipulate a lot of different kinds of data within the same framework |
| 2022-10-07 19:05:32 +0200 | cheater | (~Username@user/cheater) |
| 2022-10-07 19:07:33 +0200 | burnsidesLlama | (~burnsides@client-8-86.eduroam.oxuni.org.uk) |
| 2022-10-07 19:11:14 +0200 | mixphix | (~mixphix@bras-base-otwaon237cw-grc-11-174-91-129-69.dsl.bell.ca) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 19:11:27 +0200 | Guest56 | cafce25 |
| 2022-10-07 19:12:29 +0200 | burnsidesLlama | (~burnsides@client-8-86.eduroam.oxuni.org.uk) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-10-07 19:12:38 +0200 | zns | (~zns@user/zns) (Quit: zzz) |
| 2022-10-07 19:13:45 +0200 | zns | (~zns@user/zns) |
| 2022-10-07 19:18:42 +0200 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7137a27998e89214fca01fd.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 19:20:25 +0200 | beteigeuze | (~Thunderbi@a79-169-109-107.cpe.netcabo.pt) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 19:27:06 +0200 | <heinz9> | has haskell morphims? |
| 2022-10-07 19:27:14 +0200 | <heinz9> | morphisms |
| 2022-10-07 19:28:46 +0200 | <EvanR> | morphism is jargon for the arrows in a category. In so far as Hask is a category... haskell functions (a -> b) are the morphisms |
| 2022-10-07 19:29:21 +0200 | <EvanR> | (types are the objects) |
| 2022-10-07 19:29:31 +0200 | mixphix | (~mixphix@bras-base-otwaon237cw-grc-11-174-91-129-69.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 2022-10-07 19:32:35 +0200 | LukeHoersten | (~LukeHoers@user/lukehoersten) |
| 2022-10-07 19:34:37 +0200 | mixphix | (~mixphix@bras-base-otwaon237cw-grc-11-174-91-129-69.dsl.bell.ca) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 19:35:22 +0200 | <geekosaur> | that being essentially *why* we represent functions with type -> type |
| 2022-10-07 19:43:14 +0200 | <monochrom> | In fact mathematicians use "name: type -> type" too because category theory started that notation. |
| 2022-10-07 19:43:52 +0200 | biberu | (~biberu@user/biberu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-10-07 19:45:42 +0200 | <monochrom> | But back to the more general and meaningless question. Approximately, the only thing I can think of that is not good for automation is labour unions. |
| 2022-10-07 19:46:04 +0200 | <monochrom> | I mean, even capitalism is good for automation, right? >:) |
| 2022-10-07 19:46:32 +0200 | jmdaemon | (~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon) |
| 2022-10-07 19:47:13 +0200 | LukeHoersten | (~LukeHoers@user/lukehoersten) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2022-10-07 19:47:50 +0200 | biberu | (~biberu@user/biberu) |
| 2022-10-07 19:49:45 +0200 | imaGuest | (~imaGuest@176.219.40.168) |
| 2022-10-07 19:49:58 +0200 | imaGuest | (~imaGuest@176.219.40.168) (Client Quit) |
| 2022-10-07 19:50:07 +0200 | <c_wraith> | no, capitalization only helps when you start trying things like autOmation |
| 2022-10-07 19:52:11 +0200 | <zzz> | there's a reason caps lock is usually frowned upon |
| 2022-10-07 19:52:24 +0200 | shapr | frows |
| 2022-10-07 19:52:28 +0200 | <shapr> | ahem FROWNS |
| 2022-10-07 19:52:38 +0200 | <shapr> | capital my good sir |
| 2022-10-07 19:53:23 +0200 | <zzz> | it's not an unpopular lifestyle choice to remap capital lock to escape |
| 2022-10-07 19:53:36 +0200 | <shapr> | I don't think my keyboard has a caps lock key |
| 2022-10-07 19:53:47 +0200 | <shapr> | but anyway |
| 2022-10-07 19:53:56 +0200 | <shapr> | I got a partial Haskell job today, so that's nice |
| 2022-10-07 19:54:08 +0200 | <zzz> | ugh partial |
| 2022-10-07 19:54:12 +0200 | shapr | shrugs |
| 2022-10-07 19:54:14 +0200 | <shapr> | better than nothing |
| 2022-10-07 19:54:17 +0200 | <monochrom> | I thought people who remap capslock remap it to tab or ctrl. |
| 2022-10-07 19:54:27 +0200 | <zzz> | monochrom: esc for vim |
| 2022-10-07 19:54:34 +0200 | <shapr> | zzz: Part of the job is porting Python to Haskell, so I'm excited about that. |
| 2022-10-07 19:54:42 +0200 | <shapr> | it's gonna be funnn |
| 2022-10-07 19:54:50 +0200 | <zzz> | shapr: i was making a joke about partiality. congrats! |
| 2022-10-07 19:54:53 +0200 | <monochrom> | Partial haskell jobs are the best haskell jobs because they don't terminate. Right? >:) |
| 2022-10-07 19:55:19 +0200 | <zzz> | monochrom: ha! |
| 2022-10-07 19:55:22 +0200 | <davean> | shapr: you should use the 'safe-haskell-job' package instead of the haskell jobs you find in 'base' |
| 2022-10-07 19:55:46 +0200 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7137a277c8dbdd75e4c4002.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2022-10-07 19:55:49 +0200 | <EvanR> | honestly, Nothing is a better result than partial(ity) |
| 2022-10-07 19:55:59 +0200 | <shapr> | zzz: haha, I guess I missed that in my pattern match |
| 2022-10-07 19:56:01 +0200 | <zzz> | ok guys |
| 2022-10-07 19:56:04 +0200 | shapr | hugs zzz |
| 2022-10-07 19:56:25 +0200 | <EvanR> | the python monad |
| 2022-10-07 19:58:00 +0200 | zzz | thinks about a tail recursive ouroboros pyton |
| 2022-10-07 19:59:15 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:e519:421e:c827:31f) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-10-07 20:07:59 +0200 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@p200300c95700eb002a3a4dfffe84dbd5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2022-10-07 20:20:39 +0200 | raehik1 | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 20:20:39 +0200 | cafce25 | (~Guest56@2001:a62:153a:a201:4317:4122:7383:8e29) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2022-10-07 20:21:14 +0200 | cafce25 | (~cafce25@2001:a62:153a:a201:4317:4122:7383:8e29) |
| 2022-10-07 20:21:28 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
| 2022-10-07 20:26:56 +0200 | <shapr> | hoi tromp, hoe gaat het? |
| 2022-10-07 20:27:08 +0200 | mixphix | (~mixphix@bras-base-otwaon237cw-grc-11-174-91-129-69.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 2022-10-07 20:30:18 +0200 | waleee | (~waleee@2001:9b0:213:7200:cc36:a556:b1e8:b340) |
| 2022-10-07 20:32:00 +0200 | <tromp> | hoi, shapr. het gaat prima. vandaag 15 jaar getrouwd:-) |
| 2022-10-07 20:33:13 +0200 | mixphix | (~mixphix@bras-base-otwaon237cw-grc-11-174-91-129-69.dsl.bell.ca) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 20:37:36 +0200 | dzdcnfzd | (~dzdcnfzd@pool-72-69-177-248.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2022-10-07 20:39:27 +0200 | mixphix | (~mixphix@bras-base-otwaon237cw-grc-11-174-91-129-69.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 2022-10-07 20:44:12 +0200 | mixphix | (~mixphix@bras-base-otwaon237cw-grc-11-174-91-129-69.dsl.bell.ca) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 20:45:03 +0200 | Guest34 | (~Guest34@p5b0627ab.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2022-10-07 20:47:38 +0200 | <zzz> | saluton! kiel vi fartas? |
| 2022-10-07 20:49:45 +0200 | <EvanR> | lol |
| 2022-10-07 20:49:59 +0200 | <EvanR> | mi fartas bone |
| 2022-10-07 20:50:15 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2022-10-07 20:51:04 +0200 | [itchyjunk] | (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) |
| 2022-10-07 20:57:00 +0200 | <EvanR> | stupid haskell tricks 104: are you sortBying some stuff using a custom ordering metric, but it's not good enough to make a last minute decision to put something specific dead last |
| 2022-10-07 20:57:29 +0200 | <EvanR> | wrap the metric in (x, True) or (x, False) lol |
| 2022-10-07 20:58:09 +0200 | <EvanR> | as a stupid tie breaker |
| 2022-10-07 20:58:29 +0200 | <EvanR> | or ad hoc infinity |
| 2022-10-07 20:58:59 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:e519:421e:c827:31f) |
| 2022-10-07 21:05:55 +0200 | <monochrom> | Yes, product orders are the best things since orders. :) |
| 2022-10-07 21:06:26 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
| 2022-10-07 21:07:36 +0200 | mixphix | (~mixphix@bras-base-otwaon237cw-grc-11-174-91-129-69.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 2022-10-07 21:08:38 +0200 | <davean> | I don't just take my orders from just any old EvanR though |
| 2022-10-07 21:09:00 +0200 | <darkling> | Accepth no subtitutes. |
| 2022-10-07 21:09:04 +0200 | <darkling> | s/h// |
| 2022-10-07 21:09:04 +0200 | jao | (~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net) |
| 2022-10-07 21:11:38 +0200 | zns | (~zns@user/zns) (Quit: zzz) |
| 2022-10-07 21:12:11 +0200 | zns | (~zns@user/zns) |
| 2022-10-07 21:12:15 +0200 | zns | (~zns@user/zns) (Client Quit) |
| 2022-10-07 21:16:47 +0200 | littlefinger | (~littlefin@pool-100-15-237-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 2022-10-07 21:17:50 +0200 | <ski> | but what's the categorical significance of lexicographic ? |
| 2022-10-07 21:20:49 +0200 | Digit | (~user@user/digit) |
| 2022-10-07 21:22:50 +0200 | <Digit> | hi. using ghci for quick calculations, is there a way to have it not truncate numbers? so it shows e.g. "2.52e12" in full like 2520000000000? |
| 2022-10-07 21:23:25 +0200 | <EvanR> | be careful if you ask for "full" decimal representation of floats |
| 2022-10-07 21:23:30 +0200 | littlefinger | (~littlefin@pool-100-15-237-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 21:23:51 +0200 | <geekosaur> | there's no control over the Show instance for Float or Double, no |
| 2022-10-07 21:24:13 +0200 | <geekosaur> | you could use one of the functions in the Numeric module (or Text.Printf) to print it yourself |
| 2022-10-07 21:24:23 +0200 | <EvanR> | :t showFFloat |
| 2022-10-07 21:24:24 +0200 | <lambdabot> | RealFloat a => Maybe Int -> a -> ShowS |
| 2022-10-07 21:24:36 +0200 | <darkling> | We found some data today that was measuring areas of counties in something like square microns... :) |
| 2022-10-07 21:25:06 +0200 | <EvanR> | you can get more digits using showFFloat or defining your own newtype wrapper over floats |
| 2022-10-07 21:25:18 +0200 | <darkling> | (Or, rather, down to square µm precision) |
| 2022-10-07 21:26:15 +0200 | alexiscott | (~user@37.red-83-33-248.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) |
| 2022-10-07 21:26:52 +0200 | <EvanR> | but despite floats and doubles taking up only a few hexdigits at most, the decimal digits can stretch out to ridiculous if computed exactly |
| 2022-10-07 21:27:05 +0200 | <monochrom> | Lexicalgraphic orders may have to do with mconcat over [Ordering]. Some monoidness may be involved. |
| 2022-10-07 21:27:08 +0200 | <ski> | darkling : .. and lengths of coastlines ? |
| 2022-10-07 21:27:38 +0200 | <geekosaur> | I was wondering how badly erosion affects those areas |
| 2022-10-07 21:27:52 +0200 | <darkling> | Yeah, probably. |
| 2022-10-07 21:27:57 +0200 | azimut | (~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2022-10-07 21:28:15 +0200 | <ski> | monochrom : .. the other week, i was pondering this a little, thinking that indexing a family of orders, not by a set, but by an order, may be helpful here |
| 2022-10-07 21:29:21 +0200 | <monochrom> | Yeah since we use lexicalgraphic orders on seuqences, firstly the index set has extra structure... |
| 2022-10-07 21:29:31 +0200 | <darkling> | geekosaur: There are some "interesting" country and (US) state borders that were originally defined as "midline of the river", where the river moved afterwards. |
| 2022-10-07 21:29:51 +0200 | <ski> | darkling : at least from some POV, lengths of coastlines shouldn't be measured in metres, but rather one should measure their fractal dimension |
| 2022-10-07 21:30:18 +0200 | <darkling> | heh. I've had a hard job explaining that to my colleagues, let alone to our customers. :) |
| 2022-10-07 21:31:04 +0200 | <ski> | monochrom : so, i was thinking about the functor category from an order (being a category), to the category of orders |
| 2022-10-07 21:31:23 +0200 | <EvanR> | the customer says, "why don't you just require a bound on the curvature of the measured boundary" |
| 2022-10-07 21:31:44 +0200 | <EvanR> | "and the length is mentioned relative to that" |
| 2022-10-07 21:31:45 +0200 | <ski> | and i guess next step would be to think of the diagonal ("constant") functor to that category, and the left and right adjoints of that functor |
| 2022-10-07 21:32:04 +0200 | <monochrom> | Call me conceit but I doubt how many customers even know the word "curvature". |
| 2022-10-07 21:32:12 +0200 | <geekosaur> | darkling, yeh. and I used to live in a county which is partially under a lake |
| 2022-10-07 21:32:13 +0200 | <darkling> | The customer's more likely to ask "can I spray against septoria here tomorrow?" |
| 2022-10-07 21:32:18 +0200 | <ski> | "bound on the curvature" meaning ? |
| 2022-10-07 21:32:25 +0200 | <EvanR> | a max curvature |
| 2022-10-07 21:32:56 +0200 | <darkling> | ski: You don't accept any line segment approximation with a radius of curvature smaller than some value. |
| 2022-10-07 21:32:58 +0200 | <ski> | i'm not sure if that's a sensible thing to require, looking at it at many scales |
| 2022-10-07 21:33:19 +0200 | <ski> | (yea, i got what you mean now, ty) |
| 2022-10-07 21:33:21 +0200 | <EvanR> | it would mean there's a smallest scale |
| 2022-10-07 21:34:13 +0200 | <ski> | btw, there's this nice mathematical example of a "horn" or "trumpet", which has infinite surface area, but finite volume |
| 2022-10-07 21:34:13 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:e519:421e:c827:31f) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-10-07 21:34:21 +0200 | <monochrom> | But tautologically if you know why you're measuring coastline lengths or what the answers are going to be used for, then you know a good cutoff of the fractal thing. |
| 2022-10-07 21:34:44 +0200 | <ski> | so, can you paint all its infinite area, with a finite volume of paint ? |
| 2022-10-07 21:34:54 +0200 | <darkling> | But septoria triticum? :) |
| 2022-10-07 21:34:57 +0200 | <monochrom> | Like the same way if I know I'm plotting a Julia set on a 1680x1050 screen then I know when to stop. |
| 2022-10-07 21:35:25 +0200 | <monochrom> | or at least have some approximate idea when to stop. |
| 2022-10-07 21:35:26 +0200 | <EvanR> | the airplane you use to fly around the coast and measure it has a min turning radius xD |
| 2022-10-07 21:35:38 +0200 | vorpuni | (~pvorp@2001:861:3881:c690:cb6f:40ff:7639:1ec6) |
| 2022-10-07 21:36:17 +0200 | <ski> | if you know the fractal dimension, then you'd have a good approximation to the measured coastline length, given a particular measuring yardstick to measure with |
| 2022-10-07 21:37:07 +0200 | <EvanR> | oh, is there a relationship between bounded curvature and fractal dimension |
| 2022-10-07 21:37:38 +0200 | <EvanR> | is the infinite surface area horn painted with a volume of paint a type mismatch? |
| 2022-10-07 21:37:52 +0200 | <EvanR> | length vs area vs volume |
| 2022-10-07 21:38:26 +0200 | <ski> | btw, Lars Lohn's LyCon keynote in 2016 at <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSfe5M_zG2s#t=14m15s> talks about fractal dimension .. in his case, of a road rather than a coastline |
| 2022-10-07 21:38:29 +0200 | <darkling> | It's got to be mathematical paint of infinitesimal thickness. |
| 2022-10-07 21:38:38 +0200 | <ski> | (the whole keynote is quite enjoyable) |
| 2022-10-07 21:38:39 +0200 | <darkling> | I think it's made from the milk of a spherical cow. |
| 2022-10-07 21:39:07 +0200 | <EvanR> | space filling curves are like the biggest troll |
| 2022-10-07 21:39:15 +0200 | <ski> | i think that's too low-resolution of a cow. it should be two spheres, connected by a cylinder |
| 2022-10-07 21:39:53 +0200 | <darkling> | https://carfax.org.uk/files/temp/Cow.png |
| 2022-10-07 21:40:15 +0200 | <EvanR> | that's just a basic image needed for business at carfax |
| 2022-10-07 21:40:21 +0200 | <darkling> | (I must have rendered that over 20 years ago...) |
| 2022-10-07 21:40:31 +0200 | <ski> | i read a physics book once, and it had a picture of the two-sphere cow |
| 2022-10-07 21:40:57 +0200 | <ski> | (one sphere of lesser radius than the other, i might add) |
| 2022-10-07 21:41:02 +0200 | <monochrom> | I have trouble envisioning serious fractalness of roads. Roads are made to be not annoying for drivers, for example. |
| 2022-10-07 21:41:20 +0200 | <darkling> | Really? I can think of a few counterexamples. :) |
| 2022-10-07 21:41:23 +0200 | <monochrom> | i.e., you don't even do an approximation of space-filling curves to roads. |
| 2022-10-07 21:41:27 +0200 | <EvanR> | a federal highway should certainly be rather smooth |
| 2022-10-07 21:41:28 +0200 | <ski> | yea, you have to consider a range of scales |
| 2022-10-07 21:41:53 +0200 | <EvanR> | but new orleans might require fractal math |
| 2022-10-07 21:42:07 +0200 | <ski> | the river bank ? |
| 2022-10-07 21:42:12 +0200 | <EvanR> | just the streets |
| 2022-10-07 21:42:23 +0200 | <darkling> | ski: Yes, but you have to keep crossing the state line... |
| 2022-10-07 21:42:26 +0200 | <ski> | i guess they weren't really that planned |
| 2022-10-07 21:43:16 +0200 | <EvanR> | this margarita place is on a disconnected piece of Miro street on one end of town. Miro street is supposed to be on the complete other side of town. Very confusing |
| 2022-10-07 21:43:54 +0200 | <ski> | also confusing to have parallel pieces of the same road |
| 2022-10-07 21:44:10 +0200 | <ski> | (and i'm not talking about the road turning like an "S") |
| 2022-10-07 21:44:10 +0200 | <monochrom> | OK fibonaccoli is a great idea :) |
| 2022-10-07 21:45:32 +0200 | <darkling> | Romanesco... |
| 2022-10-07 21:45:46 +0200 | <EvanR> | you get used to the general shape of everything being a 90 degree warp, so the same street is perpendicular to itself, but streets having been overwritten and renamed is pretty bad |
| 2022-10-07 21:46:18 +0200 | <darkling> | My mum's house is on a road that needs five right-hand turns to return to. |
| 2022-10-07 21:46:44 +0200 | gqplox | (~textual@97e654ef.skybroadband.com) (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2022-10-07 21:47:04 +0200 | <monochrom> | OK he also does music. So now my question is what's the fractal dimension of Bumbling Bee when you play it 140 notes per minute haha |
| 2022-10-07 21:47:33 +0200 | <darkling> | monochrom: Isn't that a bit slow for the piece? :) |
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| 2022-10-07 21:50:48 +0200 | <EvanR> | darkling, did you make that spherical cow in Bryce3D? nice xD |
| 2022-10-07 21:51:52 +0200 | <darkling> | I can't remember. Possibly DKBTrace? |
| 2022-10-07 21:52:15 +0200 | <ski> | (he's also playing Vivaldi, at the start of the keynote) |
| 2022-10-07 21:55:11 +0200 | <darkling> | Aha. I've found the source file. It was PoVRay. |
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