2022/09/22

2022-09-22 00:00:11 +0200FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-22 00:00:46 +0200FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643)
2022-09-22 00:03:17 +0200 <hippoid> what is the purpose of hie.yaml? trying to haskell-language-server on nixos and it seems like this file is necessary?
2022-09-22 00:04:31 +0200 <geekosaur> usually it's optional these days; HLS can often figure it out from a cabal file and/or cabal.project/stack.yaml. it identifies things like projects and the locations of source files
2022-09-22 00:05:01 +0200 <geekosaur> if you're getting things from nix it might need help though
2022-09-22 00:05:12 +0200 <geekosaur> (see #haskell-language-server)
2022-09-22 00:05:15 +0200euandreh(~euandreh@179.214.113.107) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-09-22 00:05:53 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2022-09-22 00:12:22 +0200euandreh(~euandreh@179.214.113.107)
2022-09-22 00:12:37 +0200eikke(~NicolasT@user/NicolasT) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-09-22 00:15:24 +0200acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7137a23300810a445eaf94c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2022-09-22 00:20:35 +0200gmg(~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2022-09-22 00:20:41 +0200 <hippoid> why is it needed in the first place, or maybe I should ask at the other channel
2022-09-22 00:21:31 +0200 <geekosaur> probably best there, but did I not tell you what it does? earlier versions of HLS were bad at identifying projects. more recent ones are better at it, and hie.yaml is usually optional these days
2022-09-22 00:21:35 +0200glguy(~glguy@libera/staff-emeritus/glguy)
2022-09-22 00:22:09 +0200 <geekosaur> (I have one in one project of mine, but that's mostly to keep it from poking at some stuff that's barely more than comments and half-defined data structures)
2022-09-22 00:22:12 +0200 <yin> aw only 4bit colors in ansi-terminal-game
2022-09-22 00:22:27 +0200 <hippoid> geekosaur: ok now I see, thanks
2022-09-22 00:22:41 +0200 <yin> guess i'll try plawying with escape sequences
2022-09-22 00:23:48 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-34.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2022-09-22 00:24:05 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-22 00:24:31 +0200__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving)
2022-09-22 00:25:47 +0200 <EvanR> 4 bit color is pretty cool
2022-09-22 00:26:12 +0200 <EvanR> check out 16 color palette contests and stuff
2022-09-22 00:27:07 +0200 <EvanR> I played the hell out of this game... look at all those colors xD http://captive.atari.org/
2022-09-22 00:27:07 +0200 <geekosaur> 4 bit is all you can do portably
2022-09-22 00:27:20 +0200 <EvanR> (16 of them)
2022-09-22 00:27:52 +0200 <telser_> I always though 4 bit color was a bit warm for my tastes
2022-09-22 00:27:59 +0200telser_sees self out
2022-09-22 00:28:12 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-22 00:30:05 +0200titibandit(~titibandi@xdsl-87-78-162-143.nc.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-22 00:32:19 +0200king_gs(~Thunderbi@187.201.192.184)
2022-09-22 00:33:55 +0200jgeerds_(~jgeerds@55d46bad.access.ecotel.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2022-09-22 00:34:05 +0200titibandit(~titibandi@xdsl-87-78-162-143.nc.de)
2022-09-22 00:41:41 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2022-09-22 00:41:51 +0200artin(~Ei30metry@70.34.220.55)
2022-09-22 00:42:18 +0200titibandit(~titibandi@xdsl-87-78-162-143.nc.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-22 00:42:31 +0200artin(~Ei30metry@70.34.220.55) ()
2022-09-22 00:45:50 +0200 <EvanR> it's 2022 and haskell, scalaz are the only functional languages that have a map that works on ... Maps xD
2022-09-22 00:46:09 +0200 <EvanR> maybe it's a language barrier, Map map is too confusing
2022-09-22 00:46:15 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2022-09-22 00:46:44 +0200 <EvanR> clojure and elixir want you to always be messing with the key in the process
2022-09-22 00:47:38 +0200 <yin> technically haskell's map only works on singly linked lists
2022-09-22 00:47:47 +0200 <EvanR> Data.Map.map
2022-09-22 00:47:50 +0200 <yin> i'm fsorry
2022-09-22 00:49:26 +0200 <yin> touche
2022-09-22 00:49:53 +0200 <yin> completely forgot about that, and will proceed to forget about it again
2022-09-22 00:51:16 +0200 <ski> shapr : some reasonable amount of silliness wouldn't hurt, i think, rather the opposite
2022-09-22 00:51:54 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-22 00:52:54 +0200 <yin> ski : you speak with a silly ammount of reason
2022-09-22 00:53:42 +0200 <ski> surely you're joking, mr. yin
2022-09-22 00:55:59 +0200 <ski> `vty' supports 88 or 256 color palette ? 24-bit truecolor ?
2022-09-22 00:56:24 +0200 <ski> (Sixels ??)
2022-09-22 00:56:34 +0200kenaryn(~aurele@cre71-h03-89-88-44-27.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr)
2022-09-22 00:57:23 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2022-09-22 00:57:30 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2022-09-22 00:57:33 +0200 <yin> now i got lost in imagining how feynman would explain monads
2022-09-22 00:57:48 +0200 <geekosaur> it's got sixels?!
2022-09-22 00:57:56 +0200 <ski> @type fmap :: (v -> u) -> (M.Map k v -> M.Map k u)
2022-09-22 00:57:57 +0200 <lambdabot> (v -> u) -> M.Map k v -> M.Map k u
2022-09-22 00:58:03 +0200 <ski> geekosaur : no idea, just asking
2022-09-22 00:58:46 +0200 <ski> `fmap' used to be called `map', in the olden days
2022-09-22 00:59:04 +0200 <ski> (before Haskell 1.4 or something ?)
2022-09-22 00:59:08 +0200 <yin> "you see, a monad is this jiggling thing, and you can push a monad into another and they have this property you see, that they'll jiggle together"
2022-09-22 01:00:13 +0200 <geekosaur> looks to melike it supports 256 colors but in an odd way: lower standard 16 are treated differently from the upper 240
2022-09-22 01:00:15 +0200analoq(~yashi@user/dies) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-22 01:00:22 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex)
2022-09-22 01:01:07 +0200 <ski> geekosaur : `16' ANSI colors, `6^3' RGB cube, `24' greyscale
2022-09-22 01:01:47 +0200 <geekosaur> I was lookingt at https://hackage.haskell.org/package/vty-5.37/docs/Graphics-Vty-Attributes-Color240.html#v:rgbColor…
2022-09-22 01:02:05 +0200 <ski> > 16 + 6^3 + 24 :: Integer
2022-09-22 01:02:07 +0200 <lambdabot> 256
2022-09-22 01:03:04 +0200 <ski> geekosaur : i'm guessing that interpolates to the (in some metric) nearest among those `240'
2022-09-22 01:03:46 +0200ski. o O ( <https://github.com/termstandard/colors> )
2022-09-22 01:04:42 +0200takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-22 01:05:34 +0200 <EvanR> why was map renamed to fmap?
2022-09-22 01:06:25 +0200 <dolio> Because some faction wanted to monomorphise map.
2022-09-22 01:06:45 +0200 <dolio> I suppose for teaching purposes or something.
2022-09-22 01:06:58 +0200geekosaurwill absolutely not be surprised if that decision gets reversed within the next few years
2022-09-22 01:07:05 +0200 <EvanR> good.
2022-09-22 01:07:21 +0200 <geekosaur> I mean, FTP already pretty much blew that faction out of the water
2022-09-22 01:07:33 +0200 <dolio> Other functions were monomorphised at the same time. (++) used to be the MonadPlus operation.
2022-09-22 01:07:54 +0200 <EvanR> imagine if length (the current foldable method) was renamed to flength
2022-09-22 01:08:15 +0200 <EvanR> so length only worked on list xD
2022-09-22 01:09:13 +0200 <dolio> Oh, and I guess comprehensions, too.
2022-09-22 01:09:19 +0200 <EvanR> and then in 40 years new programming languages looked to haskell, only saw the length method, and made it so you could only measure the length of a list and no other structure
2022-09-22 01:09:35 +0200 <yin> length does deserve *some* controversy though
2022-09-22 01:09:36 +0200 <EvanR> ok I'm done venting about map
2022-09-22 01:10:20 +0200 <EvanR> no I'm not, and the reason length won't be implemented for anything else is "you don't need it, you can simply write a loop to count the size of non lists"
2022-09-22 01:10:54 +0200 <geekosaur> 2006 that was the state of haskell
2022-09-22 01:11:06 +0200 <geekosaur> you used size on Maps/Sets
2022-09-22 01:11:06 +0200 <ski> geekosaur : looking at the source, it seems it's doing just that. apparently if it's exactly on the diagonal, exactly hitting a `24' greyscale discrete point, it goes to the last `24', otherwise it approximates into the cube
2022-09-22 01:11:10 +0200 <dolio> I think mzero used to be zero, too. And it was in a separate class.
2022-09-22 01:11:53 +0200 <yin> EvanR:
2022-09-22 01:11:58 +0200 <yin> @type length
2022-09-22 01:11:59 +0200 <lambdabot> Foldable t => t a -> Int
2022-09-22 01:12:08 +0200 <geekosaur> this was not the sort of silly I was thinking of
2022-09-22 01:12:28 +0200 <EvanR> flength
2022-09-22 01:12:38 +0200 <ski> @type length . toList
2022-09-22 01:12:39 +0200 <lambdabot> Foldable t => t a -> Int
2022-09-22 01:13:05 +0200 <ski> dolio : yes, `MonadZero' iirc
2022-09-22 01:13:11 +0200 <EvanR> to be serious, "fmap" is strictly more scary to people when you try to suggest it or explain it, over "map"
2022-09-22 01:13:25 +0200 <EvanR> map is familiar and makes sense to a lot of people, fmap must be alien thanks to the f
2022-09-22 01:13:39 +0200 <EvanR> some weird haskell thing
2022-09-22 01:13:44 +0200 <ski> `(.)' in lambdabot used to be `fmap'. and `flip :: Functor f => f (a -> b) -> (a -> f b)'
2022-09-22 01:13:55 +0200 <ski> those were the days
2022-09-22 01:13:57 +0200 <hpc> that flip definition is great
2022-09-22 01:14:14 +0200 <hpc> also, the real answer to the fmap problem is (<$>)
2022-09-22 01:14:27 +0200 <hpc> it and (<*>) are so cool that you quickly forget how intimidating it was before
2022-09-22 01:14:38 +0200 <ski> (`sequence' is another alternative for `flip')
2022-09-22 01:14:58 +0200 <yin> omg that flip
2022-09-22 01:15:04 +0200 <kronicmage> ski: omg
2022-09-22 01:15:04 +0200 <yin> <3
2022-09-22 01:15:21 +0200 <hpc> you can .map() in other languages all day long, but as soon as you have two lists it's back to ugly nested list comprehensions
2022-09-22 01:15:42 +0200 <yin> toList ('a',7)
2022-09-22 01:15:47 +0200 <yin> > toList ('a',7)
2022-09-22 01:15:49 +0200 <lambdabot> [()]
2022-09-22 01:15:59 +0200 <ski> > toList ('a',7) :: [Integer]
2022-09-22 01:16:00 +0200king_gs(~Thunderbi@187.201.192.184) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2022-09-22 01:16:01 +0200 <lambdabot> [7]
2022-09-22 01:16:05 +0200 <yin> wait what?
2022-09-22 01:16:15 +0200 <geekosaur> uh, maybe it's time for me to kill that Num instance for ()
2022-09-22 01:16:18 +0200skislaps the `Num ()' instance that someone sneaked in the other day
2022-09-22 01:16:25 +0200 <yin> loool
2022-09-22 01:16:26 +0200 <geekosaur> (was shoiwing stuff off yesterday)
2022-09-22 01:16:29 +0200 <geekosaur> @undefine
2022-09-22 01:16:29 +0200 <lambdabot> Undefined.
2022-09-22 01:16:31 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-22 01:16:43 +0200 <ski> > length ('a',7)
2022-09-22 01:16:44 +0200 <lambdabot> 1
2022-09-22 01:16:47 +0200 <EvanR> (), the trivial ring / group
2022-09-22 01:16:53 +0200 <hpc> i don't see the problem, it's just a really wide '0'
2022-09-22 01:17:05 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-22 01:17:12 +0200chomwitt(~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc14:f500:9023:feff:8abf:ed1d) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2022-09-22 01:17:23 +0200 <yin> yeah but it's the "unit" type
2022-09-22 01:17:24 +0200 <EvanR> if it's not Num my poor ring polymorphic code won't have a zero
2022-09-22 01:17:28 +0200 <yin> should look like a 1
2022-09-22 01:17:50 +0200 <EvanR> empty tuple.. is 1
2022-09-22 01:17:51 +0200 <geekosaur> but numbers start with 0, not 1
2022-09-22 01:17:56 +0200 <hpc> yin: that's _|_
2022-09-22 01:18:08 +0200 <geekosaur> lol
2022-09-22 01:18:11 +0200 <yin> geekosaur: no that's Maybe ()
2022-09-22 01:18:15 +0200 <ski> it's the terminal object in the category `Ring' of all rings and ring homomorphisms
2022-09-22 01:18:37 +0200 <EvanR> that's what I meant
2022-09-22 01:18:48 +0200 <Lears> yin: In the zero ring, zero /is/ one.
2022-09-22 01:19:37 +0200ski. o O ( "In Soviet Russia, everyone uses the field of one element." )
2022-09-22 01:20:00 +0200 <yin> well i use base 10
2022-09-22 01:20:13 +0200 <EvanR> is base 10 like, any base above 1
2022-09-22 01:20:31 +0200 <yin> ;)
2022-09-22 01:20:37 +0200raehik(~raehik@zone3.jesus.cam.ac.uk)
2022-09-22 01:20:47 +0200 <ski> base `1' can't represent naturals
2022-09-22 01:20:59 +0200 <EvanR> 1, 11, 111, 1111, ...
2022-09-22 01:21:01 +0200ski. o O ( <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_with_one_element> )
2022-09-22 01:21:13 +0200 <ski> that's "unary"/"tallying"
2022-09-22 01:22:05 +0200 <ski> you can only have one digit, in base `1'. since `111' is `...0000111', that's more than one digit
2022-09-22 01:22:31 +0200 <yin> so... base 0?
2022-09-22 01:22:39 +0200zeenk(~zeenk@2a02:2f04:a311:2d00:6865:d863:4c93:799f) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2022-09-22 01:22:53 +0200 <hpc> actually you have two numbers
2022-09-22 01:22:58 +0200 <hpc> 1111111.....
2022-09-22 01:23:01 +0200 <hpc> and 0.11111...
2022-09-22 01:23:07 +0200 <ski> in base `0', only the lowest ("ones") digit matters. and it can be any whole number
2022-09-22 01:23:42 +0200 <EvanR> what about mixed base, where all the bases are 1
2022-09-22 01:23:48 +0200 <yin> hpc: yeah but how much is 0.1 in base 1?
2022-09-22 01:23:56 +0200 <ski> (`n' modulo zero is `n'. so every `n' is a valid digit)
2022-09-22 01:24:06 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-09-22 01:24:33 +0200ski. o O ( "All your bases are belong to one." )
2022-09-22 01:25:03 +0200 <monochrom> I use base 4.14.3.0
2022-09-22 01:25:33 +0200jespada(~jespada@cpc121060-nmal24-2-0-cust249.19-2.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-22 01:25:40 +0200 <yin> monochrom: you should update
2022-09-22 01:25:41 +0200hpc. o O ( modular arithmetic only exists if you import it )
2022-09-22 01:26:33 +0200 <EvanR> does negative base automatically give you signed digits
2022-09-22 01:27:06 +0200 <hpc> elliptic curves give you signed digits
2022-09-22 01:27:14 +0200 <geekosaur> does fractional base give you fractal digits?
2022-09-22 01:27:33 +0200edrx(~Eduardo@2804:56c:d2dc:ac00:dab8:211d:d4eb:fa94)
2022-09-22 01:28:44 +0200LukeHoersten(~LukeHoers@user/lukehoersten)
2022-09-22 01:28:50 +0200 <yin> 1/phi should be an interesting base
2022-09-22 01:30:14 +0200jjido(~Denis@2.221.114.210)
2022-09-22 01:30:44 +0200 <EvanR> base phi is a thing
2022-09-22 01:31:26 +0200 <EvanR> m + n*phi
2022-09-22 01:31:37 +0200 <yin> ooh: y^2 = sqrt(- 1/phi) -- ymaginary numbers
2022-09-22 01:32:22 +0200 <yin> i need togo to sleep
2022-09-22 01:33:27 +0200 <geekosaur> is this phi-losophy?
2022-09-22 01:34:07 +0200 <hpc> the study of tau-tologies?
2022-09-22 01:36:26 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-22 01:36:54 +0200 <edrx> anyone here uses the "pipes" package? this one: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/pipes
2022-09-22 01:37:58 +0200 <edrx> I'm trying to use it to write a function that pipes a string through a shell script and returns its output, but I'm too newbiesh
2022-09-22 01:41:01 +0200 <edrx> ski gave me a hint that I am still trying to decypher... this one:
2022-09-22 01:41:15 +0200 <edrx> "if you mean a `pipes' `Producer', then i guess you'd just use `getContents' (or a strict version of that, if you prefer)... `stdinAll = do str <- lift getContents; yield str' or `stdinAll = yield =<< lift getContents'"
2022-09-22 01:41:15 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2022-09-22 01:42:38 +0200 <edrx> the problem is that when I run that I get a stdinAll object whose type is:
2022-09-22 01:42:48 +0200 <edrx> stdinAll :: Proxy x' x () String IO ()
2022-09-22 01:43:08 +0200jespada(~jespada@cpc121060-nmal24-2-0-cust249.19-2.cable.virginm.net)
2022-09-22 01:45:03 +0200 <ski> "does negative base automatically give you signed digits" -- not necessarily
2022-09-22 01:45:22 +0200LukeHoersten(~LukeHoers@user/lukehoersten) (Read error: Connection timed out)
2022-09-22 01:45:52 +0200 <ski> (you have to choose some residue system .. and, aiui, zero had better be in it)
2022-09-22 01:46:14 +0200 <ski> factoriadic is also a nice mixed base system
2022-09-22 01:47:59 +0200ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2022-09-22 01:48:07 +0200califax(~califax@user/califx) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2022-09-22 01:48:25 +0200califax(~califax@user/califx)
2022-09-22 01:50:13 +0200ski. o O ( <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balanced_ternary>,<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_base>,<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio_base>,<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibonacci_coding>,<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeckendorf%27s_theorem>,<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factorial_number_system>,<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combinatorial_number_system> )
2022-09-22 01:50:14 +0200ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec)
2022-09-22 01:51:12 +0200shapr(~user@2601:7c0:c383:70:41d:e896:1ffc:3462) (Quit: ERC 5.4 (IRC client for GNU Emacs 28.1))
2022-09-22 01:51:24 +0200raehik(~raehik@zone3.jesus.cam.ac.uk) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2022-09-22 01:51:32 +0200 <yin> ok ski, i *was going* to sleep
2022-09-22 01:51:42 +0200skiwhistles innocently
2022-09-22 01:52:01 +0200 <edrx> hi ski!
2022-09-22 01:52:08 +0200 <ski> heya !
2022-09-22 01:52:58 +0200 <edrx> I am still trying to understand your hint... I'm starting by the types, but I don't know if this is a good idea...
2022-09-22 01:53:05 +0200 <ski> well, my `stdinAll' would simply be a producer that generates a single `String', being the whole of the `stdin' (rather than splitting it into separate lines, as the other example you had, the other day)
2022-09-22 01:53:22 +0200 <ski> to call a shell script, you'd need to much around with `process', i'd imagine
2022-09-22 01:53:25 +0200 <edrx> I made this: http://angg.twu.net/eev-haskell.html
2022-09-22 01:53:36 +0200 <ski> s/much/muck/
2022-09-22 01:54:50 +0200JamesF(~jef@92.40.190.201.threembb.co.uk)
2022-09-22 01:55:25 +0200 <ski> (factoriadic is a nice way to index permutations (with finite support). combinatoriadic is for indexing a selection of `k' items from `n' total, e.g. if you want to do a random selection)
2022-09-22 01:56:39 +0200LukeHoersten(~LukeHoers@user/lukehoersten)
2022-09-22 02:00:33 +0200 <edrx> I saw that haskell-mode has something like eldoc... it shows info about the symbol at point
2022-09-22 02:00:47 +0200 <edrx> is there a way to jump to the definition of a symbol?
2022-09-22 02:01:07 +0200 <edrx> I installed hoogle here but I don't know if it can be used for that
2022-09-22 02:01:10 +0200cynomys(~cynomys@user/cynomys) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-22 02:01:31 +0200jao(~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-22 02:01:56 +0200kenaryn(~aurele@cre71-h03-89-88-44-27.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) (Quit: leaving)
2022-09-22 02:03:03 +0200jao(~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net)
2022-09-22 02:04:27 +0200LukeHoersten(~LukeHoers@user/lukehoersten) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2022-09-22 02:04:33 +0200nate2(~nate@98.45.169.16)
2022-09-22 02:05:16 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-22 02:06:03 +0200 <geekosaur> you can create a TAGS file with something like hasktags and then it's M-.
2022-09-22 02:08:19 +0200 <edrx> thanks! let me try to install hasktags...
2022-09-22 02:09:28 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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2022-09-22 02:10:30 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
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2022-09-22 02:19:31 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-09-22 02:20:23 +0200 <ski> (oh, also forgot to mention <https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mixed_radix&oldid=1022676428#Primorial_number_system>, in the above context)
2022-09-22 02:20:48 +0200 <edrx> what is the right way to use hasktags? when I run "hasktags --etags" it gives me a help message that includes this line... "directories will be replaced by DIR/**/*.hs DIR/**/*.lhs Thus hasktags . tags all important files in the current directory"
2022-09-22 02:20:50 +0200gurkenglas(~gurkengla@p548ac72e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-22 02:21:01 +0200 <edrx> but I ran this: hasktags --etags .
2022-09-22 02:21:18 +0200 <edrx> and it didn't create any files (it seems)
2022-09-22 02:21:41 +0200 <edrx> oops, sorry, I ran this: "cd ~/usrc/pipes-4.3.16/; hasktags --etags ."
2022-09-22 02:23:12 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2022-09-22 02:24:25 +0200 <geekosaur> do you have source files in that directory, or in a subdirectory?
2022-09-22 02:24:31 +0200 <ski> @where cabal-stack-disambiguation
2022-09-22 02:24:31 +0200 <lambdabot> "The Cabal/Stack Disambiguation Guide" at <https://gist.github.com/merijn/8152d561fb8b011f9313c48d876ceb07> by Merijn
2022-09-22 02:24:44 +0200 <ski> edrx : btw, did you see ^ yet ?
2022-09-22 02:25:20 +0200 <edrx> ski: which one of the ^s?
2022-09-22 02:25:34 +0200 <geekosaur> becuase it looks to me like it only scans the directory specified, not subdirectories (https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hasktags-0.72.0/docs/Hasktags.html#v:dirToFiles)
2022-09-22 02:25:37 +0200 <ski> (apropos ".. after installing a package with Cabal (or cabal-install??? Gosh!!!) ..")
2022-09-22 02:25:47 +0200 <edrx> geekosaur: ~/usrc/pipes-4.3.16/src/ has four .hs files
2022-09-22 02:25:49 +0200 <ski> the most recent one
2022-09-22 02:25:58 +0200 <geekosaur> thne you need to run it on src, not .
2022-09-22 02:26:03 +0200 <edrx> ok, trying!
2022-09-22 02:26:54 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
2022-09-22 02:27:41 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-22 02:27:57 +0200 <edrx> geekosaur: worked! silly me =(
2022-09-22 02:28:27 +0200 <edrx> ski: great! read and adding the link to my page!!!
2022-09-22 02:29:24 +0200 <geekosaur> you may also need to M-x visit-tags-table and point it to that file
2022-09-22 02:30:23 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@119247164140.ctinets.com)
2022-09-22 02:31:06 +0200 <edrx> geekosaur: works =)
2022-09-22 02:33:43 +0200 <edrx> ski: done - now the "cabal-install" in http://angg.twu.net/eev-haskell.html points to that link!
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2022-09-22 03:10:04 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe)
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2022-09-22 03:15:01 +0200LukeHoersten(~LukeHoers@user/lukehoersten) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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2022-09-22 03:34:28 +0200 <shapr> I wish haskell.org had a list of bugs to fix
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2022-09-22 04:24:49 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
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2022-09-22 04:29:36 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-09-22 04:29:39 +0200 <EvanR> this list of extensions as a data type in template haskell reveals... NPlusKPatterns... what
2022-09-22 04:31:42 +0200 <pavonia> Wasn't that deprecated or so?
2022-09-22 04:41:39 +0200nate2(~nate@98.45.169.16)
2022-09-22 04:41:43 +0200 <c_wraith> It used to be part of the standard, not an extension.
2022-09-22 04:42:00 +0200 <c_wraith> It was removed from the standard and GHC made it an extension - then deprecated the extension
2022-09-22 04:43:28 +0200 <EvanR> so n plus k patterns still work?? xD
2022-09-22 04:43:38 +0200 <EvanR> if you enable it
2022-09-22 04:43:47 +0200 <c_wraith> I believe so
2022-09-22 04:43:52 +0200 <EvanR> mind blown
2022-09-22 04:44:09 +0200 <c_wraith> not like I've tried. :P
2022-09-22 04:44:11 +0200 <EvanR> I'd hate to be making sure that still works in the face of ghc progress
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2022-09-22 05:18:18 +0200 <ski> i believe i tried it last year or so
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2022-09-22 06:20:51 +0200 <johnw> I've never tried that extension before
2022-09-22 06:20:51 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
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2022-09-22 06:23:29 +0200 <dolio> That's probably one of the least problematic extensions to keep up to date.
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2022-09-22 08:47:39 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ()
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2022-09-22 08:55:36 +0200acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7137a23300810a445eaf94c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
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2022-09-22 09:05:33 +0200f-a(~f-a@151.68.234.1)
2022-09-22 09:06:37 +0200 <f-a> I want to spell check comments in a .hs file. For sure I can’t be the first person doing that, what is your way to feed haskell files to aspell or similar programs/
2022-09-22 09:09:02 +0200 <dminuoso> f-a: You could just craft a attoparsec/megaparsec parser to extract them for you
2022-09-22 09:09:43 +0200 <f-a> that could be a way, I hoped for “oh there is unix utility xyz that does that for you”
2022-09-22 09:11:05 +0200 <dminuoso> oh there is unix utility https://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/bionic/man1/lu-comment-extractor.1.html that does that for you
2022-09-22 09:11:29 +0200 <dminuoso> Sorry, couldn't resist. :-)
2022-09-22 09:12:17 +0200 <f-a> hehe
2022-09-22 09:14:41 +0200 <f-a> pretty nice, thanks
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2022-09-22 09:58:08 +0200Unhammerd(~Unhammer@user/unhammer)
2022-09-22 10:00:18 +0200 <Unhammerd> Has anyone noticed performance differences with process (which seems to use String input/output) vs typed-process (lazy bytestring)?
2022-09-22 10:03:03 +0200nschoe(~quassel@178.251.84.79)
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2022-09-22 11:04:45 +0200CoolGuy228xxX(~CoolGuy22@95.165.158.51)
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2022-09-22 11:08:53 +0200pagnol(~user@213-205-209-87.ftth.glasoperator.nl)
2022-09-22 11:08:56 +0200 <pagnol> Does anyone have a robust setup to use Haskell with org-babel?
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2022-09-22 12:54:00 +0200 <MangoIV[m]> Hi, did anyone here have any luck with that evaluation in place plug-in for HLS in nvim? Thanks in advance!
2022-09-22 12:55:43 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
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2022-09-22 13:46:10 +0200 <mesaoptimizer> I feel like implicit associativity of Haskell operators is one very... un-functional programming feature
2022-09-22 13:47:36 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Quit: = "")
2022-09-22 13:48:36 +0200 <tdammers> what does associativity have to do with functional-ness?
2022-09-22 13:48:38 +0200 <mesaoptimizer> at least for non-commutative operators. You _have_ to memorize the associativity and messing up the associativity in your head is an error that Haskell cannot catch
2022-09-22 13:49:02 +0200 <tdammers> but that has nothing to do with whether the language is "functional" or not
2022-09-22 13:49:18 +0200waldo(~waldo@user/waldo)
2022-09-22 13:49:24 +0200 <dminuoso> I would argue that the term "functional" is very imprecise and means very different things for different people.
2022-09-22 13:49:31 +0200 <dminuoso> There is no universally accepted sharp definition of it.
2022-09-22 13:49:53 +0200 <dminuoso> Arguing whether something "is functional or not" is only with respect to your personal beliefs and definitions.
2022-09-22 13:50:08 +0200 <tdammers> unfortunately there isn't, but most reasonable definitions revolve around the concept of a "function" (and more specifically, "pure function")
2022-09-22 13:50:10 +0200 <mesaoptimizer> sure, which is why I used un- "functional programming", implying that it goes against the usual main draws of functional programming, at least from my beginner-level perspective
2022-09-22 13:51:18 +0200 <mesaoptimizer> agree I could have worded it better but that's a minor sidenote
2022-09-22 13:51:25 +0200 <byorgey> mesaoptimizer: what do you mean by "implicit associativity of Haskell operators"? Can you give an example?
2022-09-22 13:51:26 +0200 <dminuoso> Superficially I would argue that association is a grammatical artifact, and being "functional" is usually something on the semantic level.
2022-09-22 13:51:27 +0200 <geekosaur> LC doesn't even have operators, just functions and parens for grouping
2022-09-22 13:51:29 +0200LukeHoersten(~LukeHoers@user/lukehoersten)
2022-09-22 13:51:38 +0200 <ski> mesaoptimizer : do you mean how operators get `infixl 9', if none specified ?
2022-09-22 13:51:47 +0200 <tdammers> either way, "functional" is generally about language semantics, not syntax - but operator precedence is a syntactic concern (once the operator has been parsed into an AST, its precedence and associativity is erased)
2022-09-22 13:51:58 +0200 <tdammers> so yeah
2022-09-22 13:51:58 +0200dminuosohigh fives tdammers
2022-09-22 13:52:01 +0200 <tdammers> woo hoo
2022-09-22 13:52:07 +0200 <ski> mesaoptimizer : also, i don't see what commutativity has to do with the associativity-disambiguation rules for operators
2022-09-22 13:52:39 +0200 <ski> (if you said "non-associative operators", that'd be a different thing ..)
2022-09-22 13:52:40 +0200 <dminuoso> Indeed. Commutatitivity too is a semantic thing, association is a grammatic thing.
2022-09-22 13:53:39 +0200 <dminuoso> But for what it is worth, I do have some sympathy for disliking operators since their associativity is invisible on editors most of the time.
2022-09-22 13:54:04 +0200 <mesaoptimizer> for example, the exponentiation operator ^ has infixr 8. that's TWO types of data one needs to keep in their head. Sure, you can memorize it, or look it up, and the benefit of making this implicit is conciseness, but I don't like how one can mistakenly assume the wrong infix or precedence and make logic errors
2022-09-22 13:54:32 +0200 <geekosaur> you can a;ways parenthesize
2022-09-22 13:54:40 +0200 <dminuoso> mesaoptimizer: I would argue that if its not visibly clear, you should be using (redundant) parenthesis anyway.
2022-09-22 13:55:12 +0200 <ski> imho, it would probably be better to assign relative strengths to different operators (or sets of them), rather than assign absolute (even totally ordered) ones to them
2022-09-22 13:55:17 +0200 <tdammers> another nasty consequence of the way Haskell does operators is that when you define aliases for them (e.g. for re-exporting), you have to define the fixity again
2022-09-22 13:56:16 +0200LukeHoersten(~LukeHoers@user/lukehoersten) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-22 13:56:26 +0200 <mesaoptimizer> using redundant parentheses seems like a good best practice. I'll keep that in mind.
2022-09-22 13:56:54 +0200 <ski> > let foo (+) x = x + x + x where infixr 5 + in foo (-) 2 -- i don't know a way to specify precedence and associativity here
2022-09-22 13:56:56 +0200 <lambdabot> error:
2022-09-22 13:56:56 +0200 <lambdabot> The fixity signature for ‘+’ lacks an accompanying binding
2022-09-22 13:56:56 +0200 <lambdabot> (The fixity signature must be given where ‘+’ is declared)
2022-09-22 13:57:12 +0200 <geekosaur> (and then HLS bitches at you for using unnecessary parens. shaddap already!)
2022-09-22 13:57:58 +0200 <ski> HLS, or hlint ?
2022-09-22 13:58:10 +0200 <geekosaur> hlint via HLS in my editor
2022-09-22 13:58:38 +0200 <dminuoso> Dont use hlint then!
2022-09-22 13:58:54 +0200 <dminuoso> Addressed other headaches you get too
2022-09-22 14:00:08 +0200skiis generally a fan of avoiding redundant brackets, but will occasionally go out of their way to include some, for emphasis, or even just to avoid having to recall the relative precedence of some two operators not seen together too often
2022-09-22 14:02:06 +0200 <ski> (hence i write `sort :: Ord a => ..a..', not `sort :: (Ord a) => ..a..'; `data Blah = ... deriving Show', `let x:xs = ...', `case ... of x:xs -> ...', `Just x +*+ Just y = ...', &c.)
2022-09-22 14:02:47 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-22 14:03:42 +0200gurkenglas(~gurkengla@p548ac72e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2022-09-22 14:04:20 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@119247164140.ctinets.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-22 14:04:23 +0200 <ski> (also, occasionally, i find i'd like to be able to say `(foo x y) z = ...', not just `(x +*+ y) z = ...')
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2022-09-22 17:00:58 +0200 <oats> huh, effectful looks neat
2022-09-22 17:01:18 +0200 <oats> don't know how I missed its announcement in r/haskell a couple months ago, it looks well-received
2022-09-22 17:03:00 +0200 <Hecate> oats: :D don't hesitate to create bindings to other libraries!
2022-09-22 17:05:11 +0200 <oats> I've heard about various effects libraries for a while now, but idk if the community has really coalesced around any in particular
2022-09-22 17:05:16 +0200 <oats> could effectful be that one?
2022-09-22 17:05:17 +0200 <Hecate> not yet
2022-09-22 17:05:31 +0200 <Hecate> but I hope effectful + delconts will be nice
2022-09-22 17:06:38 +0200 <oats> delconts?
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2022-09-22 17:14:09 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-22 17:14:10 +0200 <bahamas> how can I convert NominalDiffTime to seconds, if I'm using a version of time before 1.9.1 (when nominalDiffTimeToSeconds was introduced)?
2022-09-22 17:14:42 +0200 <bahamas> basically, I want to know if the current time is before or past a certain time
2022-09-22 17:17:15 +0200 <johnw> might this work?
2022-09-22 17:17:16 +0200 <johnw> let (myNominalDiffTimeInSeconds, _) = properFraction myNominalDiffTime
2022-09-22 17:17:51 +0200raehik(~raehik@global-5-15.n-1.net.cam.ac.uk) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-09-22 17:22:42 +0200 <Hecate> oats: delimited continuations
2022-09-22 17:24:48 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2022-09-22 17:29:08 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-22 17:29:20 +0200 <EvanR> bahamas, a NominalDiffTime is a number in units of seconds (with a fractional part), but it's a different type so needs a conversion
2022-09-22 17:29:36 +0200 <EvanR> try realToFrac or floor
2022-09-22 17:30:31 +0200azimut_(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut)
2022-09-22 17:30:36 +0200 <EvanR> oh, but comparing it to some official Time, that doesn't require that. But it does require getting the types straight
2022-09-22 17:31:09 +0200 <EvanR> NominalDiffTime is a diff time, while times are a different animal. So you just need to convert one to the other then use <
2022-09-22 17:31:22 +0200azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2022-09-22 17:32:41 +0200 <EvanR> e.g. if you have a UTCTime, you can diff that with some reference UTCTime to get a NominalDiffTime
2022-09-22 17:33:07 +0200 <EvanR> or, you can add NominalDiffTime to the reference UTCTime to get a UTCTime. Either way you need the same type for comparison
2022-09-22 17:34:18 +0200 <EvanR> POSIXTime is like a hybrid, we all agree on the reference date, but it's technically a diff
2022-09-22 17:39:47 +0200 <EvanR> (if you convert to a float with floor or realToFrac, you will lose a bunch of precision, if the number is as big as unix time)
2022-09-22 17:40:17 +0200 <EvanR> (so it's better to do your time math directly like I just explained)
2022-09-22 17:42:02 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2022-09-22 17:42:53 +0200 <bahamas> EvanR: well, I can get both times to be UTCTime than use the corresponding function
2022-09-22 17:43:08 +0200 <bahamas> but that function returns NominalDiffTime, so that's the issue
2022-09-22 17:43:10 +0200 <EvanR> hell yeah, UTCTime is an instance of Ord so you can just compare them
2022-09-22 17:43:20 +0200 <EvanR> what function?
2022-09-22 17:43:30 +0200 <bahamas> diffUTCTime I think it's called
2022-09-22 17:43:31 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-22 17:43:37 +0200 <EvanR> :thonk:
2022-09-22 17:43:42 +0200 <bahamas> but if I can compare them, I think that should be enough
2022-09-22 17:44:03 +0200 <EvanR> yeah, I'm not sure it makes sense to diff two times, then ask if the result is before or after a UTCTime
2022-09-22 17:44:24 +0200 <bahamas> EvanR: no, I was checking if the number of seconds is greater than 0
2022-09-22 17:44:39 +0200nschoe(~quassel@178.251.84.79) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-09-22 17:44:40 +0200 <bahamas> but now that you mentioned Ord, it sounds like my solution is a roundabout way
2022-09-22 17:44:44 +0200 <EvanR> use compare with the two UTCTimes xD
2022-09-22 17:44:49 +0200 <EvanR> :t compare
2022-09-22 17:44:50 +0200 <lambdabot> Ord a => a -> a -> Ordering
2022-09-22 17:44:50 +0200 <bahamas> right :)
2022-09-22 17:45:01 +0200 <bahamas> thanks!
2022-09-22 17:45:21 +0200 <EvanR> > floor (fromInteger 1663861268 :: Float) -- :scream:
2022-09-22 17:45:23 +0200 <lambdabot> 1663861248
2022-09-22 17:45:57 +0200 <bahamas> a, actually, in another instance I need to know if current time is below 5 minutes before a certain time
2022-09-22 17:45:58 +0200 <EvanR> > let n = 1663861268 in floor (fromInteger n :: Float) - n
2022-09-22 17:46:00 +0200 <lambdabot> -20
2022-09-22 17:46:10 +0200 <bahamas> for that I do need to compute a difference, no?
2022-09-22 17:46:29 +0200 <EvanR> the opposite
2022-09-22 17:46:30 +0200 <geekosaur> does it really use Float instead of Double?
2022-09-22 17:46:34 +0200waldo(~waldo@user/waldo)
2022-09-22 17:46:35 +0200 <EvanR> no, I'm just saying
2022-09-22 17:47:03 +0200 <EvanR> bahamas, opposite, you want to shift your UTCTime down by 5 minutes to get another UTCTime to compare
2022-09-22 17:47:24 +0200 <EvanR> addUTCTime :: NominalDiffTime -> UTCTime -> UTCTime
2022-09-22 17:47:53 +0200 <bahamas> EvanR: oh, you mean add 5 minutes to currentTime and check if it's greater or lower than startTime
2022-09-22 17:48:05 +0200 <EvanR> earlier = addUTCTime (-5 * 60) limitTime
2022-09-22 17:48:25 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2022-09-22 17:48:54 +0200 <bahamas> EvanR: anyway, I will figure this out. thanks for pointing me in the right direction
2022-09-22 17:49:28 +0200 <EvanR> geekosaur, it doesn't use float or double... but somebody might try to convert to floats to do comparisons. If they use double it won't lose 20 seconds but it does lose something compared to the raw time data
2022-09-22 17:49:50 +0200rockymarine(~rocky@user/rockymarine)
2022-09-22 17:50:01 +0200geekosaurthinks Float should be removed (and similarly float from C)
2022-09-22 17:50:13 +0200 <geekosaur> it's a trap
2022-09-22 17:50:23 +0200 <EvanR> the godot game engine is nothing but single precision floats ;_;
2022-09-22 17:50:34 +0200 <EvanR> they claim they need to support low end mobile
2022-09-22 17:50:55 +0200 <EvanR> (most graphics can work with single precision... it's fine...)
2022-09-22 17:51:07 +0200 <EvanR> (or even less precision)
2022-09-22 17:52:54 +0200ski. o O ( `short double' )
2022-09-22 17:53:58 +0200 <geekosaur> I'd be fine with that
2022-09-22 17:54:35 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@119247164140.ctinets.com)
2022-09-22 17:54:59 +0200 <EvanR> B's got your back. No float or double. Or any types...
2022-09-22 17:55:20 +0200 <ski> 5-byte floating points are where it's at
2022-09-22 17:56:02 +0200 <EvanR> by the 1990s we will probably be totally using decimals anyway
2022-09-22 17:57:04 +0200 <geekosaur> someone's been programming HP calculators
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2022-09-22 18:00:31 +0200hippoid(~idris@user/hippoid)
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2022-09-22 18:04:44 +0200raehik(~raehik@global-5-14.n-1.net.cam.ac.uk)
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2022-09-22 18:15:40 +0200Guest|30(~Guest|30@129.205.124.145)
2022-09-22 18:16:43 +0200 <Guest|30> Hey every one, every time I try to install ghc, I get the following error:
2022-09-22 18:16:51 +0200 <Guest|30> Get-CimInstance : Invalid class
2022-09-22 18:16:51 +0200 <Guest|30> At line:206 char:17
2022-09-22 18:16:51 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-22 18:16:52 +0200 <Guest|30> + $partitions = Get-CimInstance win32_logicaldisk
2022-09-22 18:16:52 +0200 <Guest|30> + ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
2022-09-22 18:16:52 +0200 <Guest|30>     + CategoryInfo : MetadataError: (root\cimv2:win32_logicaldisk:String) [Get-CimInstance], CimException
2022-09-22 18:16:53 +0200 <Guest|30>     + FullyQualifiedErrorId : HRESULT 0x80041010,Microsoft.Management.Infrastructure.CimCmdlets.GetCimInstanceCommand
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2022-09-22 19:56:32 +0200 <EvanR> > foldl1 (\a x -> a*10 + x) [1,2,3,4] -- 😎
2022-09-22 19:56:34 +0200 <lambdabot> 1234
2022-09-22 19:56:59 +0200 <EvanR> this has been your daily haskell
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2022-09-22 20:06:09 +0200 <monochrom> Can you do little endian too? Find g s.t. g [4,3,2,1] = 1234.
2022-09-22 20:07:02 +0200 <johnw> ". reverse" :)
2022-09-22 20:07:27 +0200 <monochrom> That's cheating!
2022-09-22 20:07:32 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-22 20:07:49 +0200 <johnw> wait, functional programming isn't just input -> output, but has a fairness component too??
2022-09-22 20:08:19 +0200 <EvanR> the function is pure, and total, but is it fair
2022-09-22 20:08:21 +0200razetime(~quassel@117.254.34.28) (Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2022-09-22 20:08:29 +0200 <monochrom> No, but I am highly opinionated and subjective!
2022-09-22 20:09:37 +0200 <darkling> Doesn't game theory tell us that a function of two parameters must be either unfair or boring?
2022-09-22 20:10:59 +0200 <int-e> monochrom: How is it cheating? The next step will be... foldl1 f . reverse = foldr1 (flip f)
2022-09-22 20:11:17 +0200 <monochrom> I think unfair implies boring, so "unfair or boring" is simplifiable to "boring".
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2022-09-22 20:11:53 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-22 20:12:38 +0200 <int-e> . o O ( monochrom :: a -> IRC Opinion )
2022-09-22 20:12:55 +0200 <darkling> I think in the original theorem, "unfair" means the first player always wins (or the second player always wins); "boring" means that the best either player can do is force a draw.
2022-09-22 20:13:41 +0200 <int-e> just add randomness
2022-09-22 20:13:51 +0200 <int-e> or hidden information
2022-09-22 20:15:02 +0200 <monochrom> I was joking!
2022-09-22 20:15:30 +0200 <monochrom> Unpopular opinion: randomness implies hidden information :)
2022-09-22 20:15:55 +0200 <monochrom> (OK OK you can cite quantum mechanics for randomness without hidden information. I was joking too!)
2022-09-22 20:15:58 +0200 <darkling> Sorry, I was being too serious. :)
2022-09-22 20:16:00 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) (Error from remote client)
2022-09-22 20:16:02 +0200waldo(~waldo@user/waldo)
2022-09-22 20:16:05 +0200acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7137a97958fabe0efe8f0df.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2022-09-22 20:16:11 +0200 <dolio> Quantum-ness implies hidden information. :þ
2022-09-22 20:16:26 +0200monochromtries to increase silliness, as agreed upon yesterday!
2022-09-22 20:16:39 +0200 <darkling> :D
2022-09-22 20:17:38 +0200 <monochrom> I happen to think that quantumness implies lack of information altogether!
2022-09-22 20:17:56 +0200caryhartline(~caryhartl@2600:1700:2d0:8d30:8cc:ae19:96a3:90f3)
2022-09-22 20:18:28 +0200 <monochrom> But I guess you reply that "lack implies hidden, vacuously".
2022-09-22 20:20:20 +0200 <geekosaur> another "all variables are hidden" proponent \o/
2022-09-22 20:20:58 +0200cheater(~Username@user/cheater) (Quit: (BitchX) It's a huge shit sandwich and we're all gonna have to take a bite.)
2022-09-22 20:24:12 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net)
2022-09-22 20:26:28 +0200 <dolio> Here's how you get Bell violations using hidden variables and describing your experiment in an overly-idealized way (which is standard in quantum mechanics :þ): https://hub.darcs.net/dolio/haskell-share/browse/quantum/Main.hs
2022-09-22 20:28:04 +0200cheater(~Username@user/cheater)
2022-09-22 20:28:53 +0200 <mniip> the quantum vs hidden information part is mostly about the difference between values that uniquely identify a state where each can be measured in principle, and values that can be simultaneously measured on a single instance of a system
2022-09-22 20:29:55 +0200 <mniip> with some reasoning about compound systems we conclude that the former have to grow quadratically wrt to the latter
2022-09-22 20:30:53 +0200cheater(~Username@user/cheater) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-09-22 20:31:50 +0200 <mniip> mostly referring to https://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0101012
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2022-09-22 21:07:48 +0200slack1256(~slack1256@181.43.224.87)
2022-09-22 21:08:08 +0200ft(~ft@p3e9bc57b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2022-09-22 21:09:21 +0200 <slack1256> Is there a `stack` command to just generate the corresponding .cabal file via hpack?
2022-09-22 21:11:27 +0200 <geekosaur[m]> I think you just run hpack?
2022-09-22 21:11:47 +0200rockymarine(~rocky@user/rockymarine) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2022-09-22 21:15:54 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
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2022-09-22 21:17:30 +0200rockymarine(~rocky@user/rockymarine)
2022-09-22 21:17:33 +0200 <slack8060> geekosaur[m]: mmmm that.
2022-09-22 21:17:55 +0200slack8060slack1256
2022-09-22 21:18:18 +0200lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:b118:ce88:f1f7:8f6c)
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2022-09-22 21:25:33 +0200lechner(lechner@debian/lechner) (Quit: WeeChat 3.5)
2022-09-22 21:25:46 +0200 <sm> stack build --dry-run
2022-09-22 21:26:48 +0200 <sm> (ensures you use the hpack version in stack and avoid spurious diffs)
2022-09-22 21:29:00 +0200titibandit(~titibandi@xdsl-87-78-162-143.nc.de)
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2022-09-22 21:43:24 +0200 <slack1256> sm: Marvelous!
2022-09-22 21:45:55 +0200lechner(lechner@debian/lechner)
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