2022/09/21

2022-09-21 00:00:36 +0200 <ski> (or were you just referring to `getContents' and friends ?)
2022-09-21 00:01:00 +0200acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7137a90d15659ffcaba9cd7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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2022-09-21 00:03:02 +0200zeenk(~zeenk@2a02:2f04:a311:2d00:6865:d863:4c93:799f)
2022-09-21 00:04:55 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-34.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
2022-09-21 00:05:15 +0200MoC(~moc@user/moc) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2022-09-21 00:08:19 +0200LukeHoersten(~LukeHoers@user/lukehoersten) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-09-21 00:08:33 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-21 00:11:29 +0200tvandinther(~tvandinth@111.69.34.210)
2022-09-21 00:12:06 +0200mastarija(~mastarija@2a05:4f46:e03:6000:b20e:ec84:2ec0:d21b) (Quit: WeeChat 3.5)
2022-09-21 00:12:25 +0200 <edrx> I need to write a way to htmlize sexp hyperlinks like this one: (find-cabal-links "kan-extensions")
2022-09-21 00:12:58 +0200Vq(~vq@90-227-195-41-no77.tbcn.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-09-21 00:13:26 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2022-09-21 00:13:41 +0200 <edrx> aha - <a href="https://hackage.haskell.org/package/kan-extensions">kan-extensions</a>
2022-09-21 00:17:24 +0200motherfsck(~motherfsc@user/motherfsck) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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2022-09-21 00:20:34 +0200tmiller(~tmiller@199.241.26.152) (Quit: WeeChat 3.6)
2022-09-21 00:22:22 +0200 <ski> .. with URI encoding ?
2022-09-21 00:23:41 +0200Midjak(~Midjak@82.66.147.146) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2022-09-21 00:24:05 +0200 <edrx> ski: ?
2022-09-21 00:24:43 +0200bjobjo(~bjobjo@user/bjobjo) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-21 00:25:00 +0200Batzy(~quassel@user/batzy) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2022-09-21 00:25:08 +0200 <ski> hm, now i'm not sure if package names can legally contain characters which would need to be percent encoded
2022-09-21 00:25:49 +0200 <edrx> I'll fix that as soon as I have a link that doesn't work =)
2022-09-21 00:25:57 +0200 <tvandinther> I'm getting the error of "File name does not match module name" but I want my structure to be like `Dir > File.hs` with the module being `Dir.File`. If this pattern isn't the way things are done, how else would I group related modules in a directory?
2022-09-21 00:26:21 +0200 <ski> (oh, i should probably also have mentioned `unsafeInterleaveIO', which is the "mother of Lazy I/O". i don't consider it anyway near the same level of "unsafe" (which unfortunately is a rather nebulous attribute) as say `unsafePerformIO' .. `unsafeInterleaveST', however, *is* more dangerous, in the sense of breaking equational reasoning)
2022-09-21 00:27:17 +0200 <ski> tvandinther : are you running the compiler from within that directory ?
2022-09-21 00:27:24 +0200eikke(~NicolasT@user/NicolasT)
2022-09-21 00:27:29 +0200Batzy(~quassel@user/batzy)
2022-09-21 00:28:12 +0200Batzy(~quassel@user/batzy) (Client Quit)
2022-09-21 00:28:42 +0200LukeHoersten(~LukeHoers@user/lukehoersten)
2022-09-21 00:29:28 +0200Batzy(~quassel@user/batzy)
2022-09-21 00:31:21 +0200 <ski> % let unsort :: [a] -> [a]; unsort xs = runST (do ref <- newSTRef xs; mapM (\_ -> unsafeInterleaveST (do x:xs <- readSTRef ref; writeSTRef ref xs; return x)) xs)
2022-09-21 00:31:21 +0200 <yahb2> <no output>
2022-09-21 00:31:29 +0200 <ski> % unsort "abcd"
2022-09-21 00:31:29 +0200 <yahb2> "abcd"
2022-09-21 00:31:33 +0200motherfsck(~motherfsc@user/motherfsck)
2022-09-21 00:31:34 +0200 <ski> % reverse (unsort "abcd")
2022-09-21 00:31:34 +0200 <yahb2> "abcd"
2022-09-21 00:31:51 +0200 <ski> % let xs = unsort "abcd" in (last xs,xs)
2022-09-21 00:31:51 +0200 <yahb2> ('a',"bcda")
2022-09-21 00:33:56 +0200Batzy(~quassel@user/batzy) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-21 00:34:00 +0200 <tvandinther> ski I'm using `stack build` from the root where the package.yaml is located
2022-09-21 00:34:07 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-21 00:35:24 +0200 <ski> tvandinther : i think what you're aiming for ought to work .. but i don't know Stack
2022-09-21 00:36:05 +0200Batzy(~quassel@user/batzy)
2022-09-21 00:39:17 +0200segfaultfizzbuzz(~segfaultf@23-93-74-212.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2022-09-21 00:44:18 +0200tvandinther(~tvandinth@111.69.34.210) (Quit: Client closed)
2022-09-21 00:45:04 +0200 <sm> tvandinther: there's a few ways to get this wrong.. if your project isn't public, maybe comparing with the result of `stack new temp` will help
2022-09-21 00:45:23 +0200 <geekosaur> we both just missed them
2022-09-21 00:45:38 +0200 <geekosaur> (I was going to ask for them to pastebin their package.yaml)
2022-09-21 00:45:57 +0200k``(~user@2605:a601:a60d:5400:c109:24b0:b809:a61d)
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2022-09-21 00:46:31 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
2022-09-21 00:46:50 +0200LukeHoersten(~LukeHoers@user/lukehoersten) (Read error: Connection timed out)
2022-09-21 00:46:53 +0200 <sm> ack.. matrix bridge not showing join/leave reliably just now
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2022-09-21 02:29:03 +0200EvanR(~EvanR@user/evanr)
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2022-09-21 02:34:14 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe)
2022-09-21 02:35:12 +0200 <Axman6> sm: surely that a nack? :P
2022-09-21 02:35:16 +0200 <Axman6> that's*
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2022-09-21 02:42:36 +0200LukeHoersten(~LukeHoers@user/lukehoersten) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-09-21 02:43:53 +0200nate2(~nate@98.45.169.16)
2022-09-21 02:46:19 +0200ALowther(~alowther@35.140.235.107)
2022-09-21 02:47:24 +0200 <zzz> we're still using matrix? i thought people figured out by now it's no good
2022-09-21 02:51:19 +0200Me-me(~me-me@tunnel690570-pt.tunnel.tserv12.mia1.ipv6.he.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-21 02:52:25 +0200 <ALowther> I am going through the interactive tutorial on the haskell.org home page. In Lesson 3 I learned that ['a','b','c'] == 'abc'. This wasn't intuitive to me, but I took away the idea that Strings in Haskell are represented as an array of characters. So, my next attempt was ["hello","world"] == "helloworld". This did not give me a True, however. Instead I got: Expected type: [[Char]], Actual Type: [Char]. I then thought that ["hello","world"] i
2022-09-21 02:52:25 +0200 <ALowther> s actually a two dimensional array and tried [['h','e','l','l','o'],['w','o','r','l','d']] == "helloworld". This also failed. What am I misunderstanding?
2022-09-21 02:53:03 +0200Me-me(~me-me@tunnel690570-pt.tunnel.tserv12.mia1.ipv6.he.net)
2022-09-21 02:53:25 +0200 <geekosaur> [['h','e','l','l','o'],['w','o','r','l','d']] == ["hello","world"]
2022-09-21 02:53:36 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@ai071162.d.east.v6connect.net)
2022-09-21 02:53:47 +0200 <geekosaur> but not == "helloworld". that is concatenation, which is different
2022-09-21 02:54:03 +0200 <geekosaur> > concat ["hello","world"]
2022-09-21 02:54:04 +0200 <lambdabot> "helloworld"
2022-09-21 02:54:20 +0200 <ALowther> But isn't concatenation what is happening with ['a','b','c'] == "abc"?
2022-09-21 02:54:21 +0200 <geekosaur> > [['h','e','l','l','o'],['w','o','r','l','d']]
2022-09-21 02:54:23 +0200 <lambdabot> ["hello","world"]
2022-09-21 02:54:26 +0200 <geekosaur> no
2022-09-21 02:54:39 +0200Me-me(~me-me@tunnel690570-pt.tunnel.tserv12.mia1.ipv6.he.net) (Changing host)
2022-09-21 02:54:39 +0200Me-me(~me-me@user/me-me)
2022-09-21 02:54:51 +0200 <geekosaur> the two are actually identical, not concatenation
2022-09-21 02:55:10 +0200 <geekosaur> "abc" is ['a','b','c'] is 'a':'b':'c':[]
2022-09-21 02:55:19 +0200 <geekosaur> just different ways of writing the same thing
2022-09-21 02:56:12 +0200nate2(~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2022-09-21 02:56:21 +0200 <geekosaur> (the lasat one is the actual internal representation, for what it's worth)
2022-09-21 02:57:09 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-21 02:57:13 +0200 <ALowther> Hmmm
2022-09-21 02:57:13 +0200 <pavonia> Likewise ["hello", "world"] == "hello" : "world" : [] which is different from "helloworld" = 'h' : 'e' : ... : 'd' : []
2022-09-21 02:57:33 +0200 <pavonia> Even the types don't match here
2022-09-21 02:57:51 +0200 <pavonia> [String] vs. [Char]
2022-09-21 02:58:16 +0200 <ALowther> Is String == [Char]?
2022-09-21 02:58:24 +0200 <pavonia> Yes
2022-09-21 02:58:24 +0200 <geekosaur> yes
2022-09-21 02:58:36 +0200 <geekosaur> but [[Char]] is not [Char]
2022-09-21 02:59:07 +0200LukeHoersten(~LukeHoers@user/lukehoersten)
2022-09-21 02:59:14 +0200 <ALowther> I see. I was incorrectly concatenating my two arrays of chars, rather than seeing them as distinct arrays
2022-09-21 02:59:43 +0200 <pavonia> > ["foo", "bar"] == ('f':'o':'o':[]) : ('b':'a':'r':[]) : []
2022-09-21 02:59:44 +0200 <lambdabot> True
2022-09-21 03:00:15 +0200 <ALowther> Isn't that Tuple syntax?
2022-09-21 03:00:19 +0200 <ALowther> > () == []
2022-09-21 03:00:22 +0200 <lambdabot> error:
2022-09-21 03:00:22 +0200 <lambdabot> • Couldn't match expected type ‘()’ with actual type ‘[a0]’
2022-09-21 03:00:22 +0200 <lambdabot> • In the second argument of ‘(==)’, namely ‘[]’
2022-09-21 03:00:47 +0200 <EvanR> [1,2,3,4] = 1:2:3:4:[] is a linked list not an array, sometimes it matters
2022-09-21 03:00:51 +0200ensyde(~ensyde@2600:1700:2050:1040:3c67:d3f4:1aa7:87f4) (Quit: Leaving)
2022-09-21 03:01:02 +0200 <pavonia> ALowther: No, it's just grouping
2022-09-21 03:01:17 +0200 <ALowther> > ('f','o','o') == ['f','o','o']
2022-09-21 03:01:18 +0200 <lambdabot> error:
2022-09-21 03:01:19 +0200 <lambdabot> • Couldn't match expected type ‘(Char, Char, Char)’
2022-09-21 03:01:19 +0200 <lambdabot> with actual type ‘[Char]’
2022-09-21 03:01:21 +0200 <geekosaur> the active part there is not the parentheses but the colons separating the elements
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2022-09-21 03:01:42 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-21 03:02:04 +0200 <pavonia> ALowther: If there's no comma, it can't be a tuple
2022-09-21 03:02:07 +0200 <geekosaur> a list is a linked list (x:xs) where x is an element and xs is another list. the constructors are : and [] (the empty list)
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2022-09-21 03:24:26 +0200LukeHoersten(~LukeHoers@user/lukehoersten) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-21 03:24:30 +0200 <Axman6> I feel like it took way too long to correct the "strings are arrays of chars" misunderstanding above, that shou;d've been nipped in the bud right away
2022-09-21 03:25:06 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2022-09-21 03:31:15 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-21 03:33:25 +0200 <edrx> I installed "pipes" with cabal, and my first attempt to write a test for it gave an error about "hidden packages" - the last comment here: http://angg.twu.net/HASKELL/testpipes.hs.html
2022-09-21 03:33:37 +0200 <edrx> hints? =/
2022-09-21 03:34:26 +0200Batzy_(~quassel@user/batzy)
2022-09-21 03:34:31 +0200Batzy(~quassel@user/batzy) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2022-09-21 03:35:41 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-09-21 03:41:16 +0200eikke(~NicolasT@user/NicolasT) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2022-09-21 03:42:09 +0200 <Axman6> did you add it to your cabal file?
2022-09-21 03:42:30 +0200 <Axman6> or, did you tell ghci that it's a dependency?
2022-09-21 03:46:01 +0200nate2(~nate@98.45.169.16)
2022-09-21 03:46:33 +0200 <edrx> I'm not sure =( I copied the imports from https://github.com/Gabriella439/pipes/blob/main/src/Pipes/Tutorial.hs into my test file - the testpipes.hs above - and then when I tried to make ghci load it with ":load testpipes.hs" it gave me the errors about hidden packages...
2022-09-21 03:47:11 +0200 <edrx> is that enough to tell ghci that those modules from "pipes" are dependencies?
2022-09-21 03:53:32 +0200 <Axman6> no
2022-09-21 03:53:40 +0200 <Axman6> modules and packages are different things
2022-09-21 03:53:51 +0200 <edrx> oops, wrong terminology, sorry
2022-09-21 03:54:33 +0200 <Axman6> I have no idea how you're supposed to do it in emacs though. in ghci, you'd usually add -package bytestring -package pipes -package blah to your ghci call
2022-09-21 03:54:57 +0200 <edrx> so I need to add something to my testpipes.hs that tells ghci that it need to make the modules in the package "pipes" available...
2022-09-21 03:55:05 +0200 <edrx> let me try
2022-09-21 03:56:11 +0200 <edrx> Axman6: worked! =)
2022-09-21 03:56:22 +0200 <EvanR> 128 language quine relay? https://github.com/mame/quine-relay technically haskell related since haskell is in there
2022-09-21 03:58:02 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-21 04:00:49 +0200 <edrx> Axman6: I found a mention of what you explained here: https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/9.0.1/docs/html/users_guide/packages.html#using-packages
2022-09-21 04:01:19 +0200 <edrx> now I'm looking for a statement (?) that corresponds to the "-package" option...
2022-09-21 04:02:09 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-21 04:04:15 +0200 <byorgey> There's no way to put that information in a .hs file. This is the point where you would make a .cabal file which specifies the needed modules etc. You can make one very simply by running 'cabal init' and following the prompts.
2022-09-21 04:04:19 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-21 04:04:46 +0200 <edrx> byorgey: trying!
2022-09-21 04:06:16 +0200saii(~cpli@77.47.62.180)
2022-09-21 04:07:49 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2022-09-21 04:11:24 +0200jinsun__(~jinsun@user/jinsun)
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2022-09-21 04:14:03 +0200Guest8709(~jinsun@user/jinsun) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-21 04:16:38 +0200 <sm> stack scripts/cabal scripts are also a thing
2022-09-21 04:19:04 +0200 <edrx> I am trying to follow this - https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/stable/developing-packages.html#using-cabal-init - in the directory /tmp/foo2/
2022-09-21 04:19:52 +0200 <edrx> and I've added "pipes" to the build-depends in foo2.cabal
2022-09-21 04:20:28 +0200 <edrx> would ghci read the foo2.cabal? or only ghc?
2022-09-21 04:22:19 +0200 <edrx> aaah, nevermind
2022-09-21 04:22:40 +0200 <edrx> this works in the repl: ":set -package pipes"
2022-09-21 04:23:31 +0200td_(~td@muedsl-82-207-238-164.citykom.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-09-21 04:24:27 +0200LukeHoersten(~LukeHoers@user/lukehoersten)
2022-09-21 04:25:28 +0200td_(~td@94.134.91.227)
2022-09-21 04:25:47 +0200FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Killed (NickServ (Forcing logout FinnElija -> finn_elija)))
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2022-09-21 04:26:25 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
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2022-09-21 04:31:50 +0200causal(~user@50.35.83.177)
2022-09-21 04:34:49 +0200 <sm> cabal repl does that for you
2022-09-21 04:35:06 +0200ezzieyguywuf(~Unknown@user/ezzieyguywuf) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-21 04:36:12 +0200 <edrx> sm: does what?
2022-09-21 04:36:44 +0200 <sm> runs ghci in a way that it sees the packages on your cabal file
2022-09-21 04:37:16 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-21 04:37:37 +0200 <edrx> how do I run the cabal repl?
2022-09-21 04:37:51 +0200ezzieyguywuf(~Unknown@user/ezzieyguywuf)
2022-09-21 04:39:34 +0200 <sm> just type that. it's documented I think
2022-09-21 04:39:36 +0200 <edrx> aaah, just "cabal repl"
2022-09-21 04:39:41 +0200 <edrx> sorry
2022-09-21 04:41:26 +0200 <edrx> https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/stable/cabal-commands.html#cabal-repl
2022-09-21 04:42:11 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2022-09-21 05:54:57 +0200raehik(~raehik@zone3.jesus.cam.ac.uk)
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2022-09-21 06:10:52 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-21 06:11:55 +0200azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2022-09-21 06:12:26 +0200 <EvanR> gratuitous laziness turns a multipass process into a single pass via time travel xD https://paste.tomsmeding.com/xpHJYJQL
2022-09-21 06:18:59 +0200monochrom(trebla@216.138.220.146) (Quit: NO CARRIER)
2022-09-21 06:19:01 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-09-21 06:20:12 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@119247164140.ctinets.com)
2022-09-21 06:24:54 +0200 <EvanR> apparently I don't need the ~
2022-09-21 06:28:52 +0200monochrom(trebla@216.138.220.146)
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2022-09-21 06:37:41 +0200rockymarine(~rocky@user/rockymarine) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2022-09-21 06:39:37 +0200 <c_wraith> correct. a match in a let is already irrefutable
2022-09-21 06:50:04 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
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2022-09-21 07:05:19 +0200Batzy_Batzy
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2022-09-21 08:13:16 +0200jackdreilly52(~jackdreil@2a01cb040bf5210095a09b28abebad11.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2022-09-21 08:13:33 +0200jackdreilly52(~jackdreil@2a01cb040bf5210095a09b28abebad11.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Client Quit)
2022-09-21 08:14:02 +0200jackdreilly(~jackdreil@2a01cb040bf5210095a09b28abebad11.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2022-09-21 08:14:13 +0200 <jackdreilly> Hi all! does anyone use stack + hls + vscode? I have this silly problem where changing the export list of Lib.hs doesn't propagate to other files in the project, i.e., you cannot import a newly exported function into another file like Spec.hs. The solution is to restart HLS in VS Code. Does anyone have a workaround for this?
2022-09-21 08:14:42 +0200zeenk(~zeenk@2a02:2f04:a311:2d00:6865:d863:4c93:799f)
2022-09-21 08:15:56 +0200 <sm> jackdreilly: I restart hls fairly often for stuff like that
2022-09-21 08:16:53 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2022-09-21 08:20:26 +0200kmein(~weechat@user/kmein) (Quit: ciao kakao)
2022-09-21 08:20:54 +0200kmein(~weechat@user/kmein)
2022-09-21 08:21:23 +0200frost(~frost@user/frost)
2022-09-21 08:23:56 +0200raehik(~raehik@zone3.jesus.cam.ac.uk)
2022-09-21 08:25:11 +0200 <jackdreilly> sm: thanks for the pointer, hoped to find a proper workaround to stay in "flow":)  I tried tracking down the relevant Github issues in the VSCode plugin/HLS/Stack, but got a bit lost
2022-09-21 08:25:50 +0200 <sm> it's fast if you use the command palette, almost automatic for me now
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2022-09-21 08:52:29 +0200 <Axman6> jackdreilly: set up VS Code to restart HLS on save :P
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2022-09-21 09:45:57 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ()
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2022-09-21 10:03:20 +0200smudge-the-cat(smudge-the@2600:3c01::f03c:93ff:fe0c:9b23)
2022-09-21 10:03:21 +0200smudge-the-cat(smudge-the@2600:3c01::f03c:93ff:fe0c:9b23) ()
2022-09-21 10:03:28 +0200rockymarine(~rocky@user/rockymarine)
2022-09-21 10:10:27 +0200lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:b571:4b78:e272:4c3f)
2022-09-21 10:11:29 +0200chele(~chele@user/chele)
2022-09-21 10:13:39 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz)
2022-09-21 10:15:11 +0200rockymarine(~rocky@user/rockymarine) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2022-09-21 10:15:53 +0200bahamas(~lucian@93.122.248.143)
2022-09-21 10:16:06 +0200 <bahamas> hello. anyone have any idea what the pipe might be doing here"
2022-09-21 10:16:08 +0200 <bahamas> `H.textProperty "style" "background: #fe6683 !important;border-color: #fe6683 !important;" | _Status == Requested ]`
2022-09-21 10:16:18 +0200eikke(~NicolasT@user/NicolasT)
2022-09-21 10:17:23 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-21 10:18:18 +0200 <dminuoso> bahamas: Presumably part of a list (or monad) comprehension
2022-09-21 10:19:20 +0200 <dminuoso> It's definitely a cute trick to use list/monad comprehensions without any <- in them
2022-09-21 10:19:38 +0200ensyde(~ensyde@2600:1700:2050:1040:b5b9:dd31:7250:bbca) (Quit: Leaving)
2022-09-21 10:21:55 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-21 10:22:24 +0200Psybur(~Psybur@c-76-123-45-25.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
2022-09-21 10:24:28 +0200 <ski> @undo [x | b]
2022-09-21 10:24:29 +0200 <lambdabot> if b then [x] else []
2022-09-21 10:24:59 +0200kuribas(~user@silversquare.silversquare.eu)
2022-09-21 10:28:04 +0200 <bahamas> aha, so H.textProperty "stays" only when _Status == Requested, if I understand
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2022-09-21 10:40:52 +0200 <ski> sounds reasonable
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2022-09-21 10:43:34 +0200rockymarine(~rocky@user/rockymarine)
2022-09-21 10:46:45 +0200 <bahamas> thanks!
2022-09-21 10:50:21 +0200ubert(~Thunderbi@178.115.57.139.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
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2022-09-21 10:57:40 +0200vglfr(~vglfr@145.224.94.75)
2022-09-21 11:00:23 +0200 <tux> Hello people, I'm quite new to Haskell and I'm building a website with Yesod. Using the sqlite backend I noticed that when I kill the server with C-c it usually leaves the -shm and -wal files behind, uncommitted to the main db file; is there any way to terminate gracefully? Google's given me nothing so far sadly :( Thanks.
2022-09-21 11:02:38 +0200nate2(~nate@98.45.169.16)
2022-09-21 11:02:39 +0200bahamas(~lucian@93.122.248.143) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2022-09-21 11:31:17 +0200azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut)
2022-09-21 11:31:27 +0200 <akegalj> not-tux: there are few people in #yesod channel, maybe you could post your question there as well
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2022-09-21 12:14:17 +0200 <not-tux> akegalj thanks for the tip, will do!
2022-09-21 12:14:56 +0200FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643)
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2022-09-21 14:25:37 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
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2022-09-21 14:39:03 +0200mesaoptimizer2(sid546676@user/PapuaHardyNet) ()
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2022-09-21 15:54:18 +0200mesaoptimizer(apotheosis@user/PapuaHardyNet)
2022-09-21 15:54:56 +0200 <mesaoptimizer> what's the beginner's channel? I've forgotten
2022-09-21 15:55:35 +0200 <mesaoptimizer> oh, #haskell-beginners. right
2022-09-21 15:57:19 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-21 15:58:23 +0200 <ski> fwiw, this channel is also fine for beginners questions
2022-09-21 15:58:36 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2022-09-21 15:59:19 +0200gurkenglas(~gurkengla@p548ac72e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2022-09-21 15:59:57 +0200 <ski> (you'll possibly get more eyes, in here. however, at some times, it can be a bit noisy in here, in which case it may be easier to have a more focused conversation or explanation in a generally less busy channel)
2022-09-21 16:00:33 +0200rockymarine(~rocky@user/rockymarine) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2022-09-21 16:03:15 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-21 16:03:33 +0200KaipeiKaiepi
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2022-09-21 16:05:44 +0200szkl(uid110435@id-110435.uxbridge.irccloud.com)
2022-09-21 16:06:07 +0200 <not-tux> eh noisy? it's been quite inactive for the past 7h :p
2022-09-21 16:06:58 +0200bontaq(~user@ool-45779fe5.dyn.optonline.net)
2022-09-21 16:07:00 +0200raehik(~raehik@global-5-14.n-1.net.cam.ac.uk) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2022-09-21 16:07:37 +0200 <byorgey> "at some times"
2022-09-21 16:08:13 +0200 <not-tux> oh right timezones ;-;
2022-09-21 16:08:40 +0200 <byorgey> I'm not sure it even correlates with time zones, there are just times when it's really busy and times when it's not.
2022-09-21 16:08:43 +0200 <int-e> also decades
2022-09-21 16:08:57 +0200 <int-e> this channel was buzzing with activity 19 years ago :P
2022-09-21 16:09:48 +0200 <int-e> Well, on a different network, but there is continuity.
2022-09-21 16:10:11 +0200 <byorgey> true, some of the activity has dispersed to other venues.
2022-09-21 16:10:28 +0200 <not-tux> reddit seems pretty active
2022-09-21 16:10:37 +0200 <not-tux> I might get a reddit account
2022-09-21 16:10:50 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo)
2022-09-21 16:11:02 +0200 <byorgey> it's a trap!
2022-09-21 16:11:12 +0200 <not-tux> :o
2022-09-21 16:11:13 +0200 <not-tux> why
2022-09-21 16:11:39 +0200 <byorgey> just kidding, there's lots of great Haskell discussion on reddit. I am just anti-social-media in general.
2022-09-21 16:12:15 +0200 <bsima> libredd.it is much better than corporate reddit
2022-09-21 16:12:25 +0200 <bsima> if u must use reddit
2022-09-21 16:12:31 +0200zeenk(~zeenk@2a02:2f04:a311:2d00:6865:d863:4c93:799f) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2022-09-21 16:12:56 +0200 <byorgey> "Repl Unavailable"
2022-09-21 16:13:15 +0200 <bsima> other instances here https://github.com/spikecodes/libreddit
2022-09-21 16:13:55 +0200 <byorgey> neat, thanks
2022-09-21 16:14:34 +0200 <int-e> Hmm, can https://teddit.net/ be used for posting? I do like it for the rare reading I do.
2022-09-21 16:18:01 +0200 <not-tux> byorgey: I'm not a fan either :p
2022-09-21 16:18:07 +0200 <not-tux> that's why I still don't have one hehe
2022-09-21 16:18:30 +0200 <geekosaur> I have an account but I use it only very rarely
2022-09-21 16:18:43 +0200 <not-tux> also since there seem to be people around now, I'll ask again:
2022-09-21 16:18:44 +0200 <not-tux> > Hello people, I'm quite new to Haskell and I'm building a website with Yesod. Using the sqlite backend I noticed that when I kill the server with C-c it usually leaves the -shm and -wal files behind, uncommitted to the main db file; is there any way to terminate gracefully? Google's given me nothing so far sadly :( Thanks.
2022-09-21 16:18:46 +0200 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:13: error: parse error on input ‘,’
2022-09-21 16:18:52 +0200 <not-tux> also since there seem to be people around now, I'll ask again:
2022-09-21 16:18:53 +0200 <not-tux> > Hello people, I'm quite new to Haskell and I'm building a website with Yesod. Using the sqlite backend I noticed that when I kill the server with C-c it usually leaves the -shm and -wal files behind, uncommitted to the main db file; is there any way to terminate gracefully? Google's given me nothing so far sadly :( Thanks.
2022-09-21 16:18:54 +0200 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:13: error: parse error on input ‘,’
2022-09-21 16:19:08 +0200 <not-tux> wait why did it doublepost
2022-09-21 16:19:12 +0200 <not-tux> whatever
2022-09-21 16:19:48 +0200k`(~user@152.7.255.204)
2022-09-21 16:20:12 +0200 <dolio> Are you on matrix, and did you edit what you wrote?
2022-09-21 16:20:34 +0200 <not-tux> yehah I tried to edit - I'm on libera's web client thoug
2022-09-21 16:20:53 +0200mncheck(~mncheck@193.224.205.254) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-21 16:21:18 +0200 <dolio> Editing resends the edited message to IRC.
2022-09-21 16:21:34 +0200MajorBiscuit(~MajorBisc@145.94.160.96) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2022-09-21 16:21:47 +0200 <not-tux> Ah I guessed that too, as soon as you said. Thanks for the heads-up :p
2022-09-21 16:21:52 +0200 <geekosaur> didn't know the web client supported editing though
2022-09-21 16:22:08 +0200 <geekosaur> matrix does but it doesn't necessarily send the whole thing, for small edits it does s///
2022-09-21 16:23:13 +0200Guest41(~Guest41@130.44.130.54)
2022-09-21 16:24:37 +0200 <dolio> The web chat looks a lot different than it used to.
2022-09-21 16:25:00 +0200 <not-tux> welp I just found out about IRC :p
2022-09-21 16:25:10 +0200 <not-tux> so no idea what it used to look like haha
2022-09-21 16:27:44 +0200 <dolio> It's also doing stuff like showing 'not-tux is typing ...' notifications. So maybe it's just a matrix web client or something. It's hard to tell.
2022-09-21 16:27:56 +0200Guest41(~Guest41@130.44.130.54) (Quit: Client closed)
2022-09-21 16:28:40 +0200 <not-tux> actually - what is matrix? I hear about it quite a bit but I don't actually know what it is
2022-09-21 16:29:09 +0200 <not-tux> is it like a bouncer? It says "decentralised message store"
2022-09-21 16:29:21 +0200 <dolio> It's kind of like an open source slack or what have you.
2022-09-21 16:29:28 +0200rockymarine(~rocky@user/rockymarine)
2022-09-21 16:29:56 +0200 <dolio> Or discord. Any of the fancy modern IRC replacements that people use.
2022-09-21 16:33:12 +0200 <int-e> I suppose renaming guilds to servers was a stroke of genius.
2022-09-21 16:33:38 +0200 <not-tux> I don't like Discord
2022-09-21 16:33:44 +0200 <not-tux> but I use it so much xd
2022-09-21 16:33:50 +0200 <geekosaur> its biug thing is that it can gateway between any of the other message services
2022-09-21 16:37:47 +0200 <not-tux> xD
2022-09-21 16:38:09 +0200 <not-tux> well I'm off now and I don't have a bouncer, but I now know a nice place to talk about haskell stuffs hehe
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2022-09-21 18:50:30 +0200oak-(~oakuniver@2001:470:69fc:105::fcd) ()
2022-09-21 18:51:15 +0200oak-(~oakuniver@2001:470:69fc:105::fcd)
2022-09-21 18:52:52 +0200 <lyle> I'm looking at the first function (forAllCommands) on https://hackage.haskell.org/package/quickcheck-state-machine-0.7.1/docs/Test-StateMachine-Sequenti… I've never seen a function whose type has multiple =>. Can someone steer me in the direction I need to go to understand this?
2022-09-21 18:52:55 +0200rockymarine(~rocky@user/rockymarine)
2022-09-21 18:56:20 +0200 <sm> me neither. Is it just a syntactic truck to keep them aligned ?
2022-09-21 18:56:46 +0200 <sm> s/truck/trick/
2022-09-21 18:56:55 +0200 <geekosaur[m]> Yes. Ghc tuples them together
2022-09-21 18:56:56 +0200oak-(~oakuniver@2001:470:69fc:105::fcd) ()
2022-09-21 18:57:13 +0200 <geekosaur[m]> It's a ghc specific hack
2022-09-21 18:57:47 +0200oak-(~oakuniver@2001:470:69fc:105::fcd)
2022-09-21 18:58:01 +0200waleee(~waleee@192.165.44.49) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-09-21 18:59:06 +0200 <lyle> Ok, so it's not some advanced type-theory thing.
2022-09-21 19:02:23 +0200oak-(~oakuniver@2001:470:69fc:105::fcd) ()
2022-09-21 19:03:36 +0200shapr(~user@2601:7c0:c383:70:41d:e896:1ffc:3462)
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2022-09-21 19:08:41 +0200 <tomsmeding> lyle: in case you run into this in the future, it must be mentioned that the type signature of _pattern synonym_ can have multiple => with a very specific meaning https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/users_guide/exts/pattern_synonyms.html#typing-of-pat…
2022-09-21 19:09:08 +0200 <tomsmeding> (in case you know what a pattern synonym is in the first place)
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2022-09-21 19:39:10 +0200MajorBiscuit(~MajorBisc@86-88-79-148.fixed.kpn.net)
2022-09-21 19:39:36 +0200 <dminuoso> Mmm, so I have a networking protocol library, and packets may have some unixtime stamp inside. Would exposing this as a Word32 (
2022-09-21 19:39:42 +0200jmdaemon(~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon)
2022-09-21 19:39:59 +0200 <dminuoso> be fine, or is providing a POSIXTime and depending on `time` more sensible?
2022-09-21 19:40:21 +0200 <dminuoso> Im leaning towards just giving you the Word32 and deal with it yourself
2022-09-21 19:40:26 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-34.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
2022-09-21 19:40:49 +0200 <dminuoso> (Well, I can even just make up a newtype for it, with a haddock saying "use `time` maybe"
2022-09-21 19:41:08 +0200 <dminuoso> Mmm, my 0 key seems to be a bit stuck.
2022-09-21 19:42:24 +0200 <[exa]> dminuoso: I'd go with a custom type representing precisely what is in the protocol and providing typeclass instances to make the conversion easy/no-op
2022-09-21 19:43:04 +0200 <dminuoso> Right, I mean it is highly generic and means nothing specific
2022-09-21 19:43:06 +0200 <[exa]> as in, Word32 would be completely y2k38
2022-09-21 19:43:19 +0200oak-(~oakuniver@2001:470:69fc:105::fcd) ()
2022-09-21 19:43:23 +0200 <dminuoso> Yes, but thats the world we live in :>
2022-09-21 19:43:30 +0200oak-(~oakuniver@2001:470:69fc:105::fcd)
2022-09-21 19:43:45 +0200rockymarine(~rocky@user/rockymarine) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-09-21 19:43:56 +0200 <geekosaur> nobody's going to fix such things until 2037, you know that 🙂
2022-09-21 19:43:57 +0200 <dminuoso> In RADIUS, there's no Word64 unix time yet
2022-09-21 19:44:04 +0200skiwould like a more general version of pattern synonyms
2022-09-21 19:44:41 +0200 <dminuoso> [exa]: For context, any radius client may have completely different meaning for what this date might represent
2022-09-21 19:44:53 +0200 <dminuoso> Which is why POSIXTime would be a suitable wrapper
2022-09-21 19:45:02 +0200 <dminuoso> But Im just not sure about depending on `time` just for that.
2022-09-21 19:45:05 +0200 <ski> (e.g. being able to have them be recursive. and to have some expression parameters (rather than all being patterns). and i have some more specific syntactical ideas)
2022-09-21 19:45:48 +0200 <[exa]> ah wait y2k38 is actually for Int32....good to go then. :D
2022-09-21 19:46:12 +0200 <dminuoso> What do you mean?
2022-09-21 19:51:53 +0200 <int-e> I still have fond memories of the y19100 bugs
2022-09-21 19:52:20 +0200 <int-e> Good times. Somehow, nothing truly terrible happened.
2022-09-21 19:53:10 +0200 <EvanR> 19100 is before after or during the Age of Aquarius
2022-09-21 19:53:12 +0200MajorBiscuit(~MajorBisc@86-88-79-148.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2022-09-21 19:53:45 +0200 <ski> yes
2022-09-21 19:54:25 +0200Guest|67(~Guest|67@147.161.249.108)
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2022-09-21 19:54:59 +0200 <ski> (wasn't there static analyzers for e.g. COBOL developed which flagged parts of code which might have to be updated to deal with low-precision time ?)
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2022-09-21 19:56:53 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-21 19:58:13 +0200rockymarine(~rocky@user/rockymarine)
2022-09-21 19:59:09 +0200DavidBinder(~DavidBind@134.2.10.18) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-21 20:00:36 +0200 <Guest|67> How do I clean ghcup from my linux system? Simply deleting .ghcup does not seem to do it, because when I install it from scratch it somehow remembers my what ghc version I want.
2022-09-21 20:00:50 +0200 <Guest|67> Apart from creating links to non existent locations
2022-09-21 20:01:00 +0200werneta(~werneta@137.78.30.207) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2022-09-21 20:01:31 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-09-21 20:05:26 +0200 <monochrom> It should be just simply deleting .ghcup
2022-09-21 20:07:58 +0200 <Guest|67> after I reinstall it with "curl --proto '=https' --tlsv1.2 -sSf https://get-ghcup.haskell.org | sh" it automatically install ghc 8.10.7, which I doubt is a default. I want it to install hls in the end, and it create haskell-language-server-wrapper link pointing to a non existent location outside of .ghcup
2022-09-21 20:08:46 +0200 <monochrom> But that's the default.
2022-09-21 20:08:57 +0200emmanuelux(~emmanuelu@2a01cb0000f393006c02ca375ef53871.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2022-09-21 20:10:14 +0200 <Guest|67> Ok, then. Why would haskell-language-server-wrapper point inside non-existent ~/devenv dir?
2022-09-21 20:10:29 +0200 <monochrom> I don't know, I've never used HLS.
2022-09-21 20:10:39 +0200 <geekosaur[m]> Pretty much the whole ecosystem is still on 8.10.7
2022-09-21 20:10:46 +0200werneta(~werneta@137.79.204.144)
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2022-09-21 20:25:17 +0200 <geekosaur> on my system haskell-language-server-wrapper is a symlink into .ghcup/lib/haskell-language-server-wrapper-1.7.0.0/bin
2022-09-21 20:25:26 +0200 <geekosaur> granting I'm perhaps slightly behind
2022-09-21 20:25:43 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
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2022-09-21 21:16:56 +0200lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:bae4:9d51:7bc0:c514)
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2022-09-21 21:23:06 +0200ft(~ft@p3e9bc57b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2022-09-21 21:25:41 +0200 <ski> @quote in.doubt
2022-09-21 21:25:41 +0200 <lambdabot> lispy says: When in doubt, blame dons
2022-09-21 21:26:05 +0200 <ski> @quote in.doubt
2022-09-21 21:26:05 +0200 <lambdabot> ozone says: when in doubt, blame the GHC RTS
2022-09-21 21:26:14 +0200 <ski> @quote in.doubt
2022-09-21 21:26:14 +0200 <lambdabot> copumpkin says: when in doubt, blame ski
2022-09-21 21:26:22 +0200skiglances around warily
2022-09-21 21:26:37 +0200 <int-e> . o O ( the d&d of Haskell - dons and dcoutts )
2022-09-21 21:26:48 +0200werneta(~werneta@137.79.204.144) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2022-09-21 21:26:52 +0200 <monochrom> haha
2022-09-21 21:27:36 +0200CoolGuy228xxX(~CoolGuy22@95.165.158.51)
2022-09-21 21:28:03 +0200CoolGuy228xxX(~CoolGuy22@95.165.158.51) (Client Quit)
2022-09-21 21:28:29 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-21 21:28:58 +0200 <int-e> @quote blame.ekm
2022-09-21 21:28:58 +0200 <lambdabot> No quotes match. Sorry about this, I know it's a bit silly.
2022-09-21 21:29:07 +0200 <int-e> odd :)
2022-09-21 21:30:54 +0200 <geekosaur> now's your chance 🙂
2022-09-21 21:31:08 +0200 <geekosaur> @quote blame.ed
2022-09-21 21:31:08 +0200 <lambdabot> No quotes match. I feel much better now.
2022-09-21 21:31:16 +0200 <EvanR> I know someone can help me here. "All you need is Lambda" is the title of looks like 1000 blog posts. But was there an influential paper involving this title from before blogs?
2022-09-21 21:32:03 +0200 <int-e> geekosaur: Yeah I messed that up and checked privately.
2022-09-21 21:32:28 +0200 <monochrom> There were a lot of papers of the form "Lambda: The Ultimate ___" from the same authors.
2022-09-21 21:32:49 +0200 <monochrom> But I very much doubt that the bloggers have even heard of any of the papers.
2022-09-21 21:33:00 +0200 <ski> the papers are fun
2022-09-21 21:33:03 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-21 21:33:41 +0200 <int-e> geekosaur: I imagine those quotes are more than 15 years old, #haskell was a lot sillier then.
2022-09-21 21:33:59 +0200 <monochrom> The average blogger knows just enough to be dangerous.
2022-09-21 21:34:01 +0200 <geekosaur> sometimes I wish it still were
2022-09-21 21:34:29 +0200skidoesn't look at shapr
2022-09-21 21:34:41 +0200 <EvanR> yes none of the blogs know
2022-09-21 21:35:36 +0200 <int-e> Let's make up some quotes? "All you need is epsilon." - D. Hilbert
2022-09-21 21:35:47 +0200 <monochrom> Yikes haha
2022-09-21 21:36:09 +0200 <monochrom> IIRC Hilbert's choice operator is even strong than the axiom of choice.
2022-09-21 21:36:20 +0200 <int-e> A little bit, yeah.
2022-09-21 21:36:52 +0200 <ski> in which way ?
2022-09-21 21:36:54 +0200 <int-e> It gives you persistent choice... the choice will be the same every time you evaluate a formula.
2022-09-21 21:36:58 +0200 <ski> ah
2022-09-21 21:37:10 +0200 <dolio> Yeah, it's "global choice".
2022-09-21 21:37:25 +0200 <int-e> ah, I was wondering what the standard terminology is
2022-09-21 21:37:28 +0200 <monochrom> Yeah. I had some trouble swallowing that when I learned HOL.
2022-09-21 21:37:39 +0200 <int-e> I was going to admit that I picked "peristent" myself (still doing it, as you can see)
2022-09-21 21:38:05 +0200 <monochrom> Memoized random choice haha
2022-09-21 21:38:30 +0200 <int-e> Hmm in a first-order context that's clearly conservative though
2022-09-21 21:39:02 +0200 <ski> reminds me of randomly generating functions (e.g. for something QuickCheck like, but perhaps in Erlang or some other language)
2022-09-21 21:39:05 +0200 <int-e> Oh, or not.
2022-09-21 21:39:17 +0200 <monochrom> Oh, I eventually accepted it, no worries.
2022-09-21 21:39:37 +0200 <int-e> Sorry, I wanted to use compactness but I forgot about dependent choices and the lack of higher order functions.
2022-09-21 21:39:51 +0200 <int-e> And higher order logics don't have compactness... so it's not as obvious as that.
2022-09-21 21:40:20 +0200 <int-e> On a model theoretic level it should work fine though... if you have the axiom of choice on the meta level.
2022-09-21 21:43:57 +0200Midjak(~Midjak@82.66.147.146)
2022-09-21 21:48:13 +0200titibandit(~titibandi@xdsl-87-78-162-143.nc.de)
2022-09-21 21:49:37 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@119247164140.ctinets.com)
2022-09-21 21:53:12 +0200rockymarine(~rocky@user/rockymarine) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-21 21:54:05 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@119247164140.ctinets.com) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2022-09-21 21:54:56 +0200 <phma> I've made a Hackage account and asked for permission to upload. How long does it take?
2022-09-21 21:56:02 +0200rockymarine(~rocky@user/rockymarine)
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2022-09-21 22:18:02 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
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2022-09-21 22:22:02 +0200 <shapr> ski: you want silly #haskell to return?
2022-09-21 22:22:13 +0200 <geekosaur> why not?
2022-09-21 22:22:25 +0200 <shapr> sounds good to me
2022-09-21 22:22:30 +0200 <shapr> it sure was fun
2022-09-21 22:22:41 +0200 <shapr> anything silly comes to mind?
2022-09-21 22:22:58 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@119247164140.ctinets.com)
2022-09-21 22:23:11 +0200 <geekosaur> I thought that was your bailiwick
2022-09-21 22:23:41 +0200 <geekosaur> (I'm lousy at silly)
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2022-09-21 22:25:42 +0200zzz(~z@user/zero) ()
2022-09-21 22:25:48 +0200yin(~z@user/zero)
2022-09-21 22:26:05 +0200 <yin> how does vty compare to ansi-terminal-game? anyone familiar?
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2022-09-21 22:29:35 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@119247164140.ctinets.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-09-21 22:29:57 +0200 <geekosaur> looks to me like they're pretty disjoint?
2022-09-21 22:33:00 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-21 22:34:24 +0200 <geekosaur> ansi-terminal-game is about "blitting" text-based "frames" to a terminal; vty is more general but probably slower for game-related stuff (then again, speed of the terminal emulator will dominate both)
2022-09-21 22:35:17 +0200 <geekosaur> basically, use ansi-terminal-game for frame-based output, vty (anbd probably brick to get a usable UI built on top of vty) for general text
2022-09-21 22:36:08 +0200 <yin> geekosaur: thanks
2022-09-21 22:36:59 +0200 <yin> how do you figure vty to be slower?
2022-09-21 22:37:38 +0200 <geekosaur> because outputting what amounts to the whole screen all at once will be faster than moving and updating
2022-09-21 22:37:46 +0200Ei30metry(~Ei30metry@178.131.141.206)
2022-09-21 22:37:59 +0200 <geekosaur> but at the same time you don';t want to do a full screen update to track someone typing on a line
2022-09-21 22:38:05 +0200Ei30metry(~Ei30metry@178.131.141.206) (WeeChat 3.6)
2022-09-21 22:38:16 +0200 <geekosaur> so it will depend on what you're doing
2022-09-21 22:38:25 +0200 <yin> ah i see
2022-09-21 22:38:39 +0200 <geekosaur> that's what I meant by frames
2022-09-21 22:38:52 +0200 <EvanR> with enough compression on the serial cable maybe sending frames won't be so bad
2022-09-21 22:39:14 +0200 <yin> so for stuff like let's say cellular automata ansi-terminal-game will be the best choice
2022-09-21 22:39:15 +0200 <geekosaur> as I said earlier, speed of the terminal emulator will probably dominate anyway
2022-09-21 22:39:36 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-21 22:40:19 +0200 <EvanR> I can't believe there's no aalib bindings?
2022-09-21 22:41:28 +0200 <geekosaur> what will matter more in the end is the API; ansi-terminal-game is completely unsuited to implementing something like haskeline/readline, and while vty can do frames it'll be slower because it's optimized for the other case
2022-09-21 22:41:54 +0200 <geekosaur> (but again terminal emulator time will eat any such slowness anyway)
2022-09-21 22:42:07 +0200rockymarine(~rocky@user/rockymarine) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2022-09-21 22:42:08 +0200 <EvanR> >I vote for simplicity. There are many problems of various kinds with video cards, low frequency monitors, crashing graphical apps... AA-lib IS the solution.
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