| 2022-08-08 00:05:04 +0200 | moonsheep | (~user@user/moonsheep) |
| 2022-08-08 00:05:05 +0200 | matthewmosior | (~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) |
| 2022-08-08 00:06:46 +0200 | <moonsheep> | Hi there, I'm having a hard time understanding STM, especially for a single-consumer, multiple-producers problem. |
| 2022-08-08 00:07:02 +0200 | <moonsheep> | Why does STM tell me that a thread is blocked indefinitely in the following snippet? https://paste.tomsmeding.com/bVC8E0Dl |
| 2022-08-08 00:07:32 +0200 | <moonsheep> | Does it not understand that after the threadDelay new data will be written to the queue? |
| 2022-08-08 00:07:39 +0200 | <moonsheep> | Or are you just not supposed to read from empty queues? |
| 2022-08-08 00:07:50 +0200 | <merijn> | moonsheep: Because, eventually all writing threads finish |
| 2022-08-08 00:07:52 +0200 | <c_wraith> | neither |
| 2022-08-08 00:07:56 +0200 | <dolio> | This is all one thread. |
| 2022-08-08 00:08:04 +0200 | <dolio> | Isn't it? |
| 2022-08-08 00:08:06 +0200 | <merijn> | moonsheep: And your loop tries to read from the queue, and blocks |
| 2022-08-08 00:08:11 +0200 | <merijn> | dolio: Note async in the mapM |
| 2022-08-08 00:08:21 +0200 | <dolio> | Oh, okay. |
| 2022-08-08 00:08:22 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d172-219-86-154.abhsia.telus.net) |
| 2022-08-08 00:08:23 +0200 | <merijn> | but the read loop never terminates |
| 2022-08-08 00:08:30 +0200 | <moonsheep> | Yes that is intentional |
| 2022-08-08 00:08:32 +0200 | <c_wraith> | STM reports something is blocked indefinitely on a read when all remaining uses of a particular reference cell are currently blocked on a read |
| 2022-08-08 00:08:33 +0200 | <merijn> | and the write loop does |
| 2022-08-08 00:08:48 +0200 | <merijn> | moonsheep: Yes, but nothing else can ever write when the writers terminate |
| 2022-08-08 00:08:52 +0200 | <c_wraith> | It's tied in with the garbage collector |
| 2022-08-08 00:09:00 +0200 | <merijn> | moonsheep: GHC detects this, and helpfully throws an exception in your blocking thread |
| 2022-08-08 00:09:12 +0200 | matthewmosior | (~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 00:09:22 +0200 | <moonsheep> | So here it is pretty clear that the writer will at some point stop writing, but what if I am (in my actual problem) crawling the internet? The writers may never stop for all I know |
| 2022-08-08 00:09:42 +0200 | eldritchcookie | (~eldritch@177.132.37.49) |
| 2022-08-08 00:09:42 +0200 | <moonsheep> | I really *don't* want the reader to ever terminate |
| 2022-08-08 00:09:44 +0200 | eldritch_cookie | (~eldritch@2804:7f4:8280:8d2f:870a:e15e:a75:13c7) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 00:09:44 +0200 | <c_wraith> | if something that isn't blocked on reading still has a reference to the cell, no problem |
| 2022-08-08 00:09:44 +0200 | <merijn> | moonsheep: Sure, but then the exception won't throw either :p |
| 2022-08-08 00:09:53 +0200 | <moonsheep> | Yeah it does |
| 2022-08-08 00:09:56 +0200 | eldritchcookie | (~eldritch@177.132.37.49) (Client Quit) |
| 2022-08-08 00:10:08 +0200 | <c_wraith> | moonsheep: this is very much about *garbage collection* |
| 2022-08-08 00:10:13 +0200 | <merijn> | moonsheep: No, the problem is "no thread (except the blocked one) has a reference to the queue |
| 2022-08-08 00:10:24 +0200 | <merijn> | moonsheep: Therefore, provably, no one can ever write to week up your reader |
| 2022-08-08 00:10:25 +0200 | <c_wraith> | moonsheep: if the cell is *reachable* by a thread that isn't reading from it, no exceptions thrown |
| 2022-08-08 00:10:27 +0200 | <moonsheep> | Hmm that is weird because I'm pretty sure they do |
| 2022-08-08 00:10:41 +0200 | <merijn> | moonsheep: If, another thread is alive and has a reference to your queue THEN this won't happen |
| 2022-08-08 00:10:47 +0200 | <moonsheep> | Wait maybe my example isn't analogous to my actual use case |
| 2022-08-08 00:11:03 +0200 | <c_wraith> | it isn't, because after 10 iterations your thread dies |
| 2022-08-08 00:11:05 +0200 | <merijn> | moonsheep: It is not, since in your usecases the writers (presumably) don't terminate |
| 2022-08-08 00:11:12 +0200 | <c_wraith> | and nothing is left that can write to the queue |
| 2022-08-08 00:11:21 +0200 | <moonsheep> | c_wraith: well yes, but the example isn't my actual use case, that is over 1000 lines long |
| 2022-08-08 00:11:29 +0200 | <monochrom> | Show us a reproducible example where a writer writes infinitely, the reader reads infinitely, and you still receive a "blocked" error? |
| 2022-08-08 00:11:40 +0200 | <monochrom> | I mean at this point all is speculation. |
| 2022-08-08 00:11:42 +0200 | <moonsheep> | Alright I'll try |
| 2022-08-08 00:11:57 +0200 | <moonsheep> | Yeah I was about to say I'll try to come up with a better minimal test case |
| 2022-08-08 00:11:59 +0200 | <c_wraith> | I mean, it's not speculation to explain where that exception actually comes from. :P |
| 2022-08-08 00:12:28 +0200 | <moonsheep> | The problem is that it happens a few minutes into the crawling process so debugging is a nightmare |
| 2022-08-08 00:12:54 +0200 | <c_wraith> | it's quite possible all your threads you expect to be writing to the cell are dying to uncaught exceptions |
| 2022-08-08 00:13:04 +0200 | <sm> | geekosaur: \o/ ! |
| 2022-08-08 00:13:23 +0200 | <moonsheep> | No I'm fairly certain there are no uncaught exceptions, but they're probably dying some way or another |
| 2022-08-08 00:14:09 +0200 | slack1256 | (~slack1256@181.43.227.178) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-08-08 00:14:19 +0200 | noteness | (~noteness@user/noteness) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-08-08 00:14:26 +0200 | <c_wraith> | I mean... threads only terminate from finishing or uncaught exceptions... |
| 2022-08-08 00:14:42 +0200 | noteness | (~noteness@user/noteness) |
| 2022-08-08 00:15:18 +0200 | adanwan | (~adanwan@gateway/tor-sasl/adanwan) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-08-08 00:15:54 +0200 | adanwan | (~adanwan@gateway/tor-sasl/adanwan) |
| 2022-08-08 00:15:56 +0200 | sammelweis | (~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) |
| 2022-08-08 00:16:35 +0200 | syntactic_sugar | (~amoljha@2601:644:9080:77c0::54f1) |
| 2022-08-08 00:17:02 +0200 | waleee | (~waleee@2001:9b0:213:7200:cc36:a556:b1e8:b340) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 00:17:12 +0200 | <moonsheep> | Oh wait a second, I've just realized I was completely misunderstand what I was doing |
| 2022-08-08 00:17:32 +0200 | <moonsheep> | Turns out I don't have a consumer and multiple-producers, I have multiple consumers which, after consuming, become producers |
| 2022-08-08 00:17:42 +0200 | geekosaur | (~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by allbery_b))) |
| 2022-08-08 00:17:42 +0200 | allbery_b | (~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) |
| 2022-08-08 00:17:45 +0200 | allbery_b | geekosaur |
| 2022-08-08 00:17:55 +0200 | <moonsheep> | Alright then nevermind my original question, this is a completely different case |
| 2022-08-08 00:17:57 +0200 | <moonsheep> | My bad for not realizing |
| 2022-08-08 00:18:07 +0200 | <c_wraith> | ah. well then yes, if all of them become consumers at the same time... |
| 2022-08-08 00:18:56 +0200 | <moonsheep> | Also they are fed some initial data |
| 2022-08-08 00:19:02 +0200 | <moonsheep> | Here is how the whole thing looks: |
| 2022-08-08 00:19:10 +0200 | <moonsheep> | At first everyone is a consumer, and everyone is fed some initial data |
| 2022-08-08 00:19:26 +0200 | waleee | (~waleee@h-176-10-137-138.NA.cust.bahnhof.se) |
| 2022-08-08 00:19:37 +0200 | <monochrom> | This is sounding like a bad case of the tragedy of commons :) |
| 2022-08-08 00:19:39 +0200 | <moonsheep> | After someone finishes consuming all that data, they become a producer that gives data to other consumers |
| 2022-08-08 00:19:59 +0200 | <moonsheep> | After that they wait for someone else to become a producer and give them data |
| 2022-08-08 00:20:10 +0200 | <moonsheep> | Alright I need to simplify things |
| 2022-08-08 00:20:15 +0200 | <moonsheep> | This is way too complicated for me to reason about |
| 2022-08-08 00:20:30 +0200 | <monochrom> | Yeah this is known as "economics" no? >:) |
| 2022-08-08 00:21:05 +0200 | <moonsheep> | Well if this is economics my program invests in crypto cause it ain't workin out |
| 2022-08-08 00:21:10 +0200 | takuan | (~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-08-08 00:21:18 +0200 | dcoutts | (~duncan@host86-149-51-51.range86-149.btcentralplus.com) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-08-08 00:21:25 +0200 | <merijn> | moonsheep: What are you trying to do? |
| 2022-08-08 00:21:37 +0200 | dcoutts | (~duncan@host86-149-51-51.range86-149.btcentralplus.com) |
| 2022-08-08 00:21:39 +0200 | <moonsheep> | A concurrent crawler (of something similar to the web) |
| 2022-08-08 00:21:58 +0200 | <moonsheep> | After a page is crawled, all it's links are sent to other consumers who crawl each of them |
| 2022-08-08 00:22:12 +0200 | <moonsheep> | After each of those finish in turn crawling, they send their respective outlinks to other consumerss |
| 2022-08-08 00:22:34 +0200 | <merijn> | I mean, it really sounds like you just want a single queue with multiple readers AND writers |
| 2022-08-08 00:22:39 +0200 | <moonsheep> | Ideally I have as many threads (consumer+producer) as I have hosts, so I can download concurrently from separate hosts, but not from the same one (not to overload it) |
| 2022-08-08 00:22:59 +0200 | <moonsheep> | merijn: but I don't! I want a separate queue for every host |
| 2022-08-08 00:23:13 +0200 | <moonsheep> | So all pages by google.com get processed by thread 1, all by wikipedia.com by thread 2, etc. |
| 2022-08-08 00:23:20 +0200 | matthewmosior | (~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) |
| 2022-08-08 00:23:30 +0200 | <moonsheep> | But what if a page in wikipedia.com links to one in google.com? |
| 2022-08-08 00:23:38 +0200 | <moonsheep> | I have to allow it to add it's page to google's queue |
| 2022-08-08 00:24:05 +0200 | <moonsheep> | Hmm, honestly this is startingg to ssound an awful lot like the actor model |
| 2022-08-08 00:24:15 +0200 | <merijn> | ok, so you need a "Map Domain Queue" |
| 2022-08-08 00:24:36 +0200 | <moonsheep> | Yeah I do have literally a type like that |
| 2022-08-08 00:24:46 +0200 | <moonsheep> | So you seem to be following a thought process similar to mine when designing it |
| 2022-08-08 00:24:51 +0200 | <moonsheep> | I can't be that far off from the answer |
| 2022-08-08 00:25:03 +0200 | <moonsheep> | Wait I'll try to design a more minimal example |
| 2022-08-08 00:25:04 +0200 | <monochrom> | This would not cause a block error because GC could not prove that no writer exists. |
| 2022-08-08 00:25:37 +0200 | <moonsheep> | monochrom: empirical evidence suggests the contrary. So either the GC is broken (highly unlikely) or I'm doing something wrong |
| 2022-08-08 00:25:53 +0200 | <merijn> | I'm pretty willing to bet on option 2 :) |
| 2022-08-08 00:26:00 +0200 | <merijn> | Given that I know how the GC does it :p |
| 2022-08-08 00:26:16 +0200 | <moonsheep> | Again this is one of those situations that are a nightmare to debug because it doesn't fail until like 5 minutes into crawling :'( |
| 2022-08-08 00:26:30 +0200 | <moonsheep> | merijn: I don't know how the GC works but I trust it way more than myself, so definitely |
| 2022-08-08 00:27:01 +0200 | ubert | (~Thunderbi@77.119.210.41.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 00:28:20 +0200 | <moonsheep> | Oh boy, I'm just starting to realize how fundamentally flawed my current design is |
| 2022-08-08 00:28:36 +0200 | <moonsheep> | For one I already noticed a few mistakes in the implementation |
| 2022-08-08 00:28:55 +0200 | <moonsheep> | But also this is a giant mess of spaghetti, I should probably organize it a little before trying to do fancy pants concurrency |
| 2022-08-08 00:29:20 +0200 | <moonsheep> | Anyway, I'll be back in a few hours or weeks, thank you my dearest debugging ducks :) |
| 2022-08-08 00:36:09 +0200 | nate4 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) |
| 2022-08-08 00:40:57 +0200 | nate4 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 00:44:15 +0200 | BanUtama | (~blake.rai@user/BanUtama) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 00:47:44 +0200 | matthewmosior | (~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 00:48:23 +0200 | Achylles | (~Achylles_@2804:431:d725:d87b:def0:5845:5ed6:f001) |
| 2022-08-08 00:56:51 +0200 | BanUtama | (~blake.rai@user/BanUtama) |
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| 2022-08-08 01:00:59 +0200 | pioneer | (~pioneer@186-241-18-221.user3p.veloxzone.com.br) |
| 2022-08-08 01:01:27 +0200 | pioneer | UnrelatedMicrowa |
| 2022-08-08 01:01:36 +0200 | UnrelatedMicrowa | Microwave |
| 2022-08-08 01:06:56 +0200 | BanUtama | (~blake.rai@user/BanUtama) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 01:08:07 +0200 | Achylles | (~Achylles_@2804:431:d725:d87b:def0:5845:5ed6:f001) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2022-08-08 01:10:34 +0200 | BanUtama | (~blake.rai@user/BanUtama) |
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| 2022-08-08 01:16:34 +0200 | matthewmosior | (~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) |
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| 2022-08-08 01:18:44 +0200 | noteness | (~noteness@user/noteness) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
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| 2022-08-08 01:18:52 +0200 | bitdex | (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 2022-08-08 01:51:59 +0200 | Midjak | (~Midjak@82.66.147.146) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) |
| 2022-08-08 01:57:13 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-007.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
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| 2022-08-08 02:10:06 +0200 | szkl | (uid110435@id-110435.uxbridge.irccloud.com) |
| 2022-08-08 02:13:14 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@206-55-188-8.fttp.usinternet.com) |
| 2022-08-08 02:13:14 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@206-55-188-8.fttp.usinternet.com) (Changing host) |
| 2022-08-08 02:13:14 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) |
| 2022-08-08 02:17:02 +0200 | raym | (~raym@user/raym) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
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| 2022-08-08 02:30:28 +0200 | nilradical | (~nilradica@user/naso) |
| 2022-08-08 02:30:39 +0200 | gmg | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) |
| 2022-08-08 02:31:00 +0200 | moonsheep | (~user@user/moonsheep) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-08-08 02:31:17 +0200 | matthewmosior | (~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 02:34:01 +0200 | <Axman6> | o/ |
| 2022-08-08 02:34:38 +0200 | dcoutts_ | (~duncan@host86-184-129-193.range86-184.btcentralplus.com) |
| 2022-08-08 02:37:02 +0200 | dcoutts | (~duncan@host86-149-51-51.range86-149.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 02:37:08 +0200 | <hpc> | o:\ |
| 2022-08-08 02:39:57 +0200 | <Axman6> | Nice hat hpc, very chic |
| 2022-08-08 02:40:09 +0200 | dcoutts__ | (~duncan@host86-184-129-176.range86-184.btcentralplus.com) |
| 2022-08-08 02:42:22 +0200 | chexum | (~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) |
| 2022-08-08 02:42:41 +0200 | dcoutts_ | (~duncan@host86-184-129-193.range86-184.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 02:43:49 +0200 | <hpc> | :P |
| 2022-08-08 02:43:50 +0200 | chexum | (~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum) |
| 2022-08-08 02:44:13 +0200 | matthewmosior | (~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) |
| 2022-08-08 02:46:17 +0200 | dcoutts | (~duncan@host86-184-129-193.range86-184.btcentralplus.com) |
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| 2022-08-08 03:17:26 +0200 | BanUtama | (~blake.rai@user/BanUtama) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 03:21:17 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d172-219-86-154.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 03:24:44 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-08-08 03:29:52 +0200 | hmw[at] | (~hmw@84-113-100-7.cable.dynamic.surfer.at) |
| 2022-08-08 03:30:30 +0200 | frost | (~frost@user/frost) |
| 2022-08-08 03:31:11 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | I'd like to ask something generic about functional programming. Is there another channel I should go to? |
| 2022-08-08 03:31:30 +0200 | <dibblego> | do it |
| 2022-08-08 03:31:36 +0200 | <Axman6> | things are quiet here, so feel free to ask |
| 2022-08-08 03:31:39 +0200 | <geekosaur> | not really. just ask |
| 2022-08-08 03:31:45 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | Thanks |
| 2022-08-08 03:32:02 +0200 | BanUtama | (~blake.rai@user/BanUtama) |
| 2022-08-08 03:33:47 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | I have been programming for ages. A few years back I started to look deeper into JavaScript, which has matured quite a bit. Now everyone recommends to use functional paradigms, and I enjoy doing so. I have a weird problem, which I don't understand though: |
| 2022-08-08 03:34:42 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | When something is written using things like Array.map and all the other goodies, I find myself taking a long time reading the code until I get, what it does. At first I thought, this is new and I just need to practice it until I get accustomed. |
| 2022-08-08 03:35:17 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | But I didn't. I find these types of code still pretty hard to read, especially compared to the same thing written in C, even though that is more verbous. |
| 2022-08-08 03:35:39 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | So I read something and have to look a single line for ages, because it is so condensed and abstracted. |
| 2022-08-08 03:35:55 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | I'd like to find out, why it didn't get easier for me after about 5 years. |
| 2022-08-08 03:37:28 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | I know, this is a bit of a wonky question, but I had a discussion and realized that I still suck at reading these kinds of code. Maybe, just maybe, you have an idea, where I went wrong, or can recommend something I should look into? |
| 2022-08-08 03:37:33 +0200 | <Axman6> | That's sory of the point - writing a for-loop bombards you with lots of unnecessary information, no one should care what order the elements of an array are accessed in, so why explicitly write out that first element 0 is accessed, then element 1 is accessed, then element 2 is accessed? Distill the idea of doing something to every element of an array by using map, so you can think about that as a higher level idea |
| 2022-08-08 03:38:13 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | I can understand that argument in a way, but for me it doesn't look more efficient, since I am so slow at reading these |
| 2022-08-08 03:38:14 +0200 | <Axman6> | I think to be able to answer further we'd need some more concrete details, do you have code you find hard to read? |
| 2022-08-08 03:38:52 +0200 | <Axman6> | why makes it slow? There's less code, and you should be able to hold the abstractions of "mapping a function over an array" in your head |
| 2022-08-08 03:39:23 +0200 | <dibblego> | recognise, then filter out, all the unnecessary details — this is known to be difficult |
| 2022-08-08 03:39:28 +0200 | <Axman6> | in the Haskell world, we have an abstraction for that idea for many data types, which we call Functors |
| 2022-08-08 03:39:31 +0200 | BanUtama | (~blake.rai@user/BanUtama) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 03:39:40 +0200 | <Axman6> | :t fmap |
| 2022-08-08 03:39:41 +0200 | <lambdabot> | Functor f => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b |
| 2022-08-08 03:39:54 +0200 | <dibblego> | "a for loop is necessary to count the numbers in the array" — I have heard this at least 1000 times, yet it is simply untrue |
| 2022-08-08 03:40:34 +0200 | <Axman6> | functor, which contains the fmap function, abstracts the idea of being able to apply a function to all the elements of some structure f |
| 2022-08-08 03:40:42 +0200 | <Axman6> | > fmap show [1,2,3,4,5] |
| 2022-08-08 03:40:44 +0200 | <lambdabot> | ["1","2","3","4","5"] |
| 2022-08-08 03:40:49 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | I think I don't have a good example at hand. I can make one, but it will take me a bit |
| 2022-08-08 03:40:50 +0200 | <Axman6> | > fmap show (Just 7) |
| 2022-08-08 03:40:52 +0200 | <lambdabot> | Just "7" |
| 2022-08-08 03:41:19 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | otoh, I am sure you understand me already. Just imagine several functional things nested or concatenated in one line of code. |
| 2022-08-08 03:41:20 +0200 | <Axman6> | > fmap show (1,2) -- notoriously confusing example, but is consistent with how Functor works |
| 2022-08-08 03:41:22 +0200 | <lambdabot> | (1,"2") |
| 2022-08-08 03:41:38 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | The usual "ugly" JS stuff |
| 2022-08-08 03:41:56 +0200 | <Axman6> | Also know as "JS stuff" :P |
| 2022-08-08 03:42:01 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | Heheh |
| 2022-08-08 03:42:07 +0200 | <monochrom> | IMO there is nothing apart from getting used to it. |
| 2022-08-08 03:42:11 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | It feels like I am missing some basics |
| 2022-08-08 03:42:35 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | (I am not a trained programmer) |
| 2022-08-08 03:42:51 +0200 | <Axman6> | Are you comfortable with the idea of higher order functions? functions which accept other functions (or return functions)? |
| 2022-08-08 03:43:29 +0200 | <Axman6> | they are used all the time in asynchronous code (or used to be), often called callbacks |
| 2022-08-08 03:43:32 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | Yes. I do use that sometimes in my browser programs, or wherever the language requires me to do so (sort for example) |
| 2022-08-08 03:43:41 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | I love Promise() |
| 2022-08-08 03:44:45 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | Hm. Getting used to it. I can try focus specifically on these things. I am just surprised that it didn't happen naturally already |
| 2022-08-08 03:45:08 +0200 | <monochrom> | I will not be saying anything negative about a C for-loop containing so much boilerplate. In academia, research papers contain even more boilerplate fillers than Java. And yet readers know to skip them and not complain. |
| 2022-08-08 03:45:15 +0200 | matthewmosior | (~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 03:45:16 +0200 | zaquest | (~notzaques@5.130.79.72) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-08-08 03:45:57 +0200 | renzhi | (~xp@2607:fa49:6500:b100::47a5) |
| 2022-08-08 03:46:05 +0200 | <monochrom> | In fact, I think I heard the exact opposite. Since readers are so used to seeing said boilerplate, if you don't have it, readers suddenly feel that they don't know the structure of your paper and they don't know how to read it. |
| 2022-08-08 03:46:18 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | huh. |
| 2022-08-08 03:47:05 +0200 | <monochrom> | And I think the same is happening to you at a less epic scale. If you don't see the obliged "for (i = 0; i < size; I++)", you're lost. |
| 2022-08-08 03:47:29 +0200 | [itchyjunk] | (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) |
| 2022-08-08 03:47:36 +0200 | <monochrom> | And then it's apparent that there is nothing you can do apart from getting used to it. |
| 2022-08-08 03:47:43 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@125x103x176x34.ap125.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) |
| 2022-08-08 03:48:30 +0200 | BanUtama | (~blake.rai@user/BanUtama) |
| 2022-08-08 03:48:35 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | I see. It does make sense somewhat, since I come from the other end of the spectrum (micro controllers, asm, etc). Still. I should have picked it up already :) Thanks for your inputs! |
| 2022-08-08 03:49:27 +0200 | zaquest | (~notzaques@5.130.79.72) |
| 2022-08-08 03:49:57 +0200 | <Cale> | hmw[at]: A friend of mine (who was going to university with me at the time for pure mathematics but who was not much of a programmer) once said that he really thought the higher order functions of Haskell did a much better job of mapping onto how he thought about things intuitively in everyday life. Like, when telling someone to wash all the dishes (he said), you tell them to wash all the dishes, which is closer to |
| 2022-08-08 03:49:57 +0200 | <Cale> | "map wash dishes" (or mapM perhaps) than numbering the dishes and incrementing a counter. |
| 2022-08-08 03:50:09 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | :) |
| 2022-08-08 03:50:20 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | That's a neat example, I must say |
| 2022-08-08 03:51:04 +0200 | <Axman6> | Cale: please please remember the current index as 0 |
| 2022-08-08 03:51:12 +0200 | <Axman6> | Cale: please wash the dish at the current index |
| 2022-08-08 03:51:21 +0200 | <Axman6> | Cale: please please remember the current index as the current index plus one |
| 2022-08-08 03:51:23 +0200 | <Axman6> | Cale: please wash the dish at the current index |
| 2022-08-08 03:51:24 +0200 | <dibblego> | I keep a little sticky note with the index when doing dishes |
| 2022-08-08 03:51:25 +0200 | <Axman6> | Cale: please please remember the current index as the current index plus one |
| 2022-08-08 03:51:29 +0200 | <Axman6> | ... |
| 2022-08-08 03:51:40 +0200 | <jackdk> | Axman6: NullPointerException, there are no dishes |
| 2022-08-08 03:51:47 +0200 | <Cale> | please abstain from abstaining |
| 2022-08-08 03:51:55 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | lol |
| 2022-08-08 03:52:05 +0200 | <Axman6> | c'est la vie |
| 2022-08-08 03:52:07 +0200 | <jackdk> | Another perspective: `map :: (a -> b) -> [a] -> [b]` looks like `map :: (a -> b) -> ([a] -> [b])` if you add the implicit parens, which lets you see it as a function which transforms a function over elements into a function over lists |
| 2022-08-08 03:52:08 +0200 | <dibblego> | worse is index out of bounds, hate that |
| 2022-08-08 03:52:19 +0200 | <jackdk> | oh yeah that's what it's called. thanks for fixing my joke |
| 2022-08-08 03:52:29 +0200 | <dibblego> | that's ok, I too have -1 dishes to wash |
| 2022-08-08 03:53:16 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | It helps me to make my code more verbose, e.g. func( a => b ) ---> func( (a) => { b } ) |
| 2022-08-08 03:53:51 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | Like, there was something as "too little code" |
| 2022-08-08 03:54:21 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | I guess I'll stick around here and see, what I can learn from your conversations |
| 2022-08-08 03:54:31 +0200 | <Axman6> | > map (^7) [1..10] |
| 2022-08-08 03:54:33 +0200 | <lambdabot> | [1,128,2187,16384,78125,279936,823543,2097152,4782969,10000000] |
| 2022-08-08 03:54:38 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | I have a slight interest in starting Haskell even. |
| 2022-08-08 03:54:43 +0200 | <Axman6> | > (^7) <$> [1..10] |
| 2022-08-08 03:54:45 +0200 | <lambdabot> | [1,128,2187,16384,78125,279936,823543,2097152,4782969,10000000] |
| 2022-08-08 03:54:46 +0200 | <dibblego> | if "not having associativity rules internalised" is helped by adding parentheses, then do just that |
| 2022-08-08 03:55:19 +0200 | <dibblego> | most programmers won't have a problem specific examples though, such as 2 + 4 * 5 |
| 2022-08-08 03:55:41 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | Yeah, I do that of course with my own code, but then I might have to share it or work on other's code. I hate your typical JS library where everything is nested lambdas and the actual program entry point is somewhere in the middle to that main anonymous function |
| 2022-08-08 03:56:07 +0200 | <Axman6> | everythign is a function though |
| 2022-08-08 03:56:11 +0200 | <Axman6> | thing* |
| 2022-08-08 03:56:32 +0200 | <monochrom> | Most programmers eliminate the need for associativity and parentheses by going back to three-address instructions before Fortran. |
| 2022-08-08 03:56:43 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | heh |
| 2022-08-08 03:57:07 +0200 | <monochrom> | They call it "OOP". |
| 2022-08-08 03:57:18 +0200 | <Axman6> | God is Real, unless definied as an integer |
| 2022-08-08 03:57:27 +0200 | <dibblego> | lol, love me a good monochrom joke |
| 2022-08-08 03:57:57 +0200 | <yin> | i use base 10 |
| 2022-08-08 04:00:24 +0200 | <[Leary]> | hmw[at]: Bit late, but I suspect your issue is similar to the difficulty of obtaining fluency in a second language---so long as you're still immersed in your mother tongue, fluency in a second tends to grow very slowly. It might help if you took some time to steep yourself in the paradigm of a true functional language, without the fallbacks and crutches of an imperative simulacrum. |
| 2022-08-08 04:00:51 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | [Leary]: Sounds like a good hint, thanks! |
| 2022-08-08 04:01:01 +0200 | <Axman6> | There aren't many better languages to do that with than Haskell, because we don't have those fallbacks |
| 2022-08-08 04:01:17 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | I shall finally start trying it |
| 2022-08-08 04:01:24 +0200 | Sujjek | (~Sujjek@90.95.10.128) |
| 2022-08-08 04:01:46 +0200 | <Axman6> | hmw[at]: try to avoid translating everything you learn back into something you already know, because it will limit your understanding to what is possible in those languages |
| 2022-08-08 04:01:56 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | mhm |
| 2022-08-08 04:02:37 +0200 | <Sujjek> | does anyone have example code of how to use the random-fu Random.sample function? https://hackage.haskell.org/package/random-fu-0.3.0.0/docs/Data-Random.html#v:sample |
| 2022-08-08 04:02:50 +0200 | <Axman6> | If you decide to learn Haskell, I would highlly recommend you get some paper and a pencil and work through the process of evaluating functions based on their definitions - happy to help walk you through what I mean once you get started |
| 2022-08-08 04:02:56 +0200 | <Sujjek> | I think you have to import mtl and random packages but I don't know how to make it work |
| 2022-08-08 04:02:57 +0200 | lemonsnicks | (~lemonsnic@cpc159519-perr18-2-0-cust114.19-1.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in) |
| 2022-08-08 04:03:08 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | I love programming with paper and pencil |
| 2022-08-08 04:03:25 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | Haven't done it in ages tho |
| 2022-08-08 04:04:35 +0200 | <Axman6> | walking through the evaluation of something as simple as sum (filter even [1,2,3,4,5,6]) can help a lot |
| 2022-08-08 04:04:38 +0200 | sander | (~sander@user/sander) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 04:07:12 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | I don't like to use complex tool chains. I'd rather have a simple text editor and a command line interpreter. What should I use? |
| 2022-08-08 04:07:50 +0200 | <Axman6> | whichever editor you like - you just load ghci up in a terminal, and :reload (:r for short) when you change your code |
| 2022-08-08 04:08:37 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | Sounds perfect. Any documentation you want to recommend over whatever I would be going to find on my own? |
| 2022-08-08 04:09:30 +0200 | <Axman6> | I'm not up to date with what the current consensus is as the best place to start learning, I'm sure others have more opinions than me |
| 2022-08-08 04:09:47 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | I can try Google np |
| 2022-08-08 04:10:10 +0200 | <Sujjek> | `No instance for (Monad.Reader.MonadReader g0 IO)` |
| 2022-08-08 04:10:11 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | Heh. I am becoming a "Lambdahead" after all! |
| 2022-08-08 04:10:35 +0200 | <jackdk> | install haskell via ghcup, it's the easiest way |
| 2022-08-08 04:11:08 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | As long as I am not required to install 300MB of toolchain, it will be fine :) |
| 2022-08-08 04:11:11 +0200 | FinnElija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-08-08 04:11:32 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | Ah no, that was just the editor |
| 2022-08-08 04:11:34 +0200 | <Axman6> | more like 600MB IIRC - GHC is a complex compiler |
| 2022-08-08 04:11:42 +0200 | FinnElija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) |
| 2022-08-08 04:11:47 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | oh. lol. |
| 2022-08-08 04:12:10 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | I was thinking of VSCode, which I recently tried |
| 2022-08-08 04:12:20 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | it came "empty" with 230 MB or so. WTF. |
| 2022-08-08 04:12:27 +0200 | <Axman6> | I use VS Code and it's excellent |
| 2022-08-08 04:12:53 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | I heard |
| 2022-08-08 04:13:17 +0200 | <jackdk> | I use emacs and it's excellent, but ed is pretty cool too if you want a minimal editor |
| 2022-08-08 04:13:20 +0200 | <Axman6> | you can use ghcup to install the Haskell Language Server (HLS) (thought I think these days installing ghcup is enough, and the Haskell plugin will take care of installing HSL for you - check the docs) |
| 2022-08-08 04:14:00 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | It's going to be fine. I just wanted to know the simplest option. 600MB is quite a bit, but so what |
| 2022-08-08 04:14:32 +0200 | matthewmosior | (~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) |
| 2022-08-08 04:15:45 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | I just have a strong dislike of frameworks that are stacked onto other framworks recursively. I see a lot of newbies getting lost in those when I help out in other channels. Our software has gotten way too complex. It's a wonder, that our computers still work. |
| 2022-08-08 04:16:04 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-007.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) |
| 2022-08-08 04:16:38 +0200 | <hmw[at]> | That's how we're going to create Skynet :) |
| 2022-08-08 04:17:03 +0200 | sander | (~sander@user/sander) |
| 2022-08-08 04:17:10 +0200 | <Axman6> | That definitely feels like the JavaScript experience. |
| 2022-08-08 04:18:53 +0200 | <Sujjek> | well I got this to run, wondering if its possible with fewer steps, like using a default global random source or something: https://wandbox.org/permlink/DZobcsxHQNK2yeV5 |
| 2022-08-08 04:19:59 +0200 | lemonsnicks | (~lemonsnic@cpc159519-perr18-2-0-cust114.19-1.cable.virginm.net) |
| 2022-08-08 04:21:23 +0200 | <Axman6> | Sujjek: for small programs doing that will feel like a lot of overhead, but you only need to write that once and it will continue to work as your program grows |
| 2022-08-08 04:25:20 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 2022-08-08 04:27:17 +0200 | FinnElija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-08-08 04:27:42 +0200 | FinnElija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) |
| 2022-08-08 04:29:37 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 04:32:04 +0200 | <Sujjek> | ah I can use Stateful.globalStdGen |
| 2022-08-08 04:32:07 +0200 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@164.5.249.78) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 04:34:10 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) |
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| 2022-08-08 04:40:01 +0200 | FinnElija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) |
| 2022-08-08 04:49:00 +0200 | Microwave | (~pioneer@186-241-18-221.user3p.veloxzone.com.br) (Quit: Lost terminal) |
| 2022-08-08 04:50:17 +0200 | adanwan | (~adanwan@gateway/tor-sasl/adanwan) (Write error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 2022-08-08 04:50:47 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-007.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
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| 2022-08-08 04:56:17 +0200 | BanUtama | (~blake.rai@user/BanUtama) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 04:57:47 +0200 | nilradical | (~nilradica@user/naso) () |
| 2022-08-08 04:59:04 +0200 | jero98772 | (~jero98772@2800:484:1d80:d8ce:efcc:cbb3:7f2a:6dff) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-08-08 05:00:00 +0200 | Taneb | (~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org) (Quit: I seem to have stopped.) |
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| 2022-08-08 05:04:42 +0200 | instantaphex | (~jb@c-73-171-252-84.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 2022-08-08 05:08:55 +0200 | oats | (~thomas@user/oats) (Quit: until later, my friends) |
| 2022-08-08 05:09:10 +0200 | [itchyjunk] | (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 2022-08-08 05:35:01 +0200 | Vajb | (~Vajb@2001:999:70c:2b99:3e15:6929:5bc6:c014) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-08-08 05:35:15 +0200 | Vajb | (~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3ad-40.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 2022-08-08 05:35:21 +0200 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@164.5.249.78) |
| 2022-08-08 05:39:30 +0200 | instantaphex | (~jb@c-73-171-252-84.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 05:43:34 +0200 | mvk | (~mvk@2607:fea8:5ce3:8500::d5f2) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 05:45:34 +0200 | <albet70> | "@djinn (((a->b) -> r) -> r) -> ((a->r)->r) -> (b->r) -> r; lambdabot :f a b c = b (\ d -> a (\ e -> c (e d))); tomsmeding :that djinn output is incorrect as an implementation for Cont though, because it evaluates the argument before the function :p " then what's the right implementation? |
| 2022-08-08 05:53:19 +0200 | mvk | (~mvk@2607:fea8:5ce3:8500::d5f2) |
| 2022-08-08 05:56:05 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d172-219-86-154.abhsia.telus.net) |
| 2022-08-08 05:58:47 +0200 | adanwan | (~adanwan@gateway/tor-sasl/adanwan) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-08-08 05:59:06 +0200 | adanwan | (~adanwan@gateway/tor-sasl/adanwan) |
| 2022-08-08 06:02:58 +0200 | syntactic_sugar | (~amoljha@2601:644:9080:77c0::54f1) (Quit: WeeChat 3.5) |
| 2022-08-08 06:03:09 +0200 | <monochrom> | f a b c = a (\e -> b (\d -> c (e d))) |
| 2022-08-08 06:07:41 +0200 | zebrag | (~chris@user/zebrag) (Quit: Konversation terminated!) |
| 2022-08-08 06:10:20 +0200 | jargon | (~jargon@184.101.188.251) |
| 2022-08-08 06:10:21 +0200 | instantaphex | (~jb@c-73-171-252-84.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 2022-08-08 06:10:31 +0200 | <albet70> | monochrom , how u work this out? type tetris? |
| 2022-08-08 06:11:26 +0200 | jao | (~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 06:12:39 +0200 | <Cale> | Just thinking about what it means, probably. Though I'm not sure I would consider either option "wrong". |
| 2022-08-08 06:12:39 +0200 | Vajb | (~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3ad-40.dhcp.inet.fi) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-08-08 06:13:08 +0200 | <monochrom> | I learned continuations. |
| 2022-08-08 06:13:18 +0200 | <monochrom> | Or at least continuation passing style. |
| 2022-08-08 06:13:23 +0200 | Vajb | (~Vajb@2001:999:70c:2b99:3e15:6929:5bc6:c014) |
| 2022-08-08 06:14:37 +0200 | instantaphex | (~jb@c-73-171-252-84.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 06:15:11 +0200 | <Cale> | In monochrom's version, we first run a, getting some function e :: a -> b, and then we run b, getting some value d :: a, and then we finish (apply the final continuation c) with the result e d of applying the function we got to the value we got. |
| 2022-08-08 06:16:12 +0200 | <albet70> | Cale, and djinn's version is wrong? |
| 2022-08-08 06:16:42 +0200 | <Cale> | No, it just gets the argument first, then the function, and calls the final continuation with the same result. |
| 2022-08-08 06:17:10 +0200 | <Cale> | The evaluation order will be different, but in any case where both terminate, the result will be the same. |
| 2022-08-08 06:17:55 +0200 | <Cale> | If this were ContT and there were effects, then executing things in a different order might make effects occur in a different order, but it's difficult to say that one way is "wrong". |
| 2022-08-08 06:18:26 +0200 | azimut | (~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 06:18:26 +0200 | <Cale> | I do like the version which does the function first though, it's a little more obvious to go left to right. |
| 2022-08-08 06:19:14 +0200 | <albet70> | should this liftA2 on Cont ever be used? or never be used? |
| 2022-08-08 06:19:49 +0200 | <Cale> | There are probably cases. Cases where you should use Cont/ContT are already fairly rare as it is. |
| 2022-08-08 06:19:58 +0200 | <monochrom> | But ContT would be way more complex than "a (\e -> ...)" :) |
| 2022-08-08 06:20:06 +0200 | <Cale> | (true) |
| 2022-08-08 06:20:18 +0200 | <Cale> | But if you're going to use it, one of the main reasons is to be able to get hold of combinators like liftA2 and sequence |
| 2022-08-08 06:20:59 +0200 | <Cale> | Especially the recursive things like sequence can be kind of annoying to write by hand when manipulating things in continuation passing style |
| 2022-08-08 06:25:52 +0200 | matthewmosior | (~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
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| 2022-08-08 11:59:33 +0200 | Midjak | (~Midjak@82.66.147.146) |
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| 2022-08-08 12:07:39 +0200 | causal | (~user@2001:470:ea0f:3:329c:23ff:fe3f:1e0e) (Quit: WeeChat 3.6) |
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| 2022-08-08 13:21:26 +0200 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e70586513900a84d65605e14.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 13:25:31 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:84d3:74ed:839d:b6c0) |
| 2022-08-08 13:29:53 +0200 | kuribas | (~user@ptr-17d51en96bu9gl9zv58.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-08-08 13:30:58 +0200 | kuribas | (~user@ptr-17d51en96bu9gl9zv58.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) |
| 2022-08-08 13:31:07 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2022-08-08 13:34:05 +0200 | kuribas | (~user@ptr-17d51en96bu9gl9zv58.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-08-08 13:34:13 +0200 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e70586513900a84d65605e14.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
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| 2022-08-08 13:36:04 +0200 | Cerins | (~Cerins@m90-128-49-116.cust.tele2.lv) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2022-08-08 13:41:16 +0200 | kuribas | (~user@ptr-17d51en96bu9gl9zv58.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 13:42:25 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
| 2022-08-08 13:47:17 +0200 | vglfr | (~vglfr@194.9.14.33) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 13:48:18 +0200 | vglfr | (~vglfr@194.9.14.33) |
| 2022-08-08 13:50:19 +0200 | jonathanx | (~jonathan@h-178-174-176-109.A357.priv.bahnhof.se) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-08-08 13:51:04 +0200 | frost | (~frost@user/frost) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2022-08-08 13:53:33 +0200 | azimut | (~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) |
| 2022-08-08 13:54:11 +0200 | <cdepillabout[m]> | I think about a year ago I heard of this explanation of Computer Science where it is generally thought to be split in two large fields, PLT and algorithms. Historically, universities in Europe have paid slightly more attention to the PLT side, and universities in the US have paid slightly more attention to the DS&A side. I think this was called something like "Type 1" computer science and "type 2" computer science, but I don't remember |
| 2022-08-08 13:54:11 +0200 | <cdepillabout[m]> | what the names were for the two respective types. |
| 2022-08-08 13:54:13 +0200 | <cdepillabout[m]> | Does anyone know what I'm thinking of here? |
| 2022-08-08 13:54:29 +0200 | <cdepillabout[m]> | Or what the two sides of CS are referred to as? |
| 2022-08-08 13:55:11 +0200 | ulvarrefr | (~user@188.124.56.153) |
| 2022-08-08 13:58:07 +0200 | jakalx | (~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) (Error from remote client) |
| 2022-08-08 14:00:38 +0200 | jonathanx | (~jonathan@h-178-174-176-109.A357.priv.bahnhof.se) |
| 2022-08-08 14:01:23 +0200 | vglfr | (~vglfr@194.9.14.33) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 14:02:15 +0200 | vglfr | (~vglfr@194.9.14.33) |
| 2022-08-08 14:04:17 +0200 | FinnElija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-08-08 14:04:41 +0200 | ph88 | (~ph88@2a02:8109:9e00:71d0::347a) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-08-08 14:04:59 +0200 | FinnElija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) |
| 2022-08-08 14:05:59 +0200 | nilradical | (~nilradica@user/naso) |
| 2022-08-08 14:06:03 +0200 | FinnElija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-08-08 14:06:33 +0200 | FinnElija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) |
| 2022-08-08 14:09:26 +0200 | lortabac | (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:da7f:59a:21af:ba9d) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 14:11:42 +0200 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@164.5.249.78) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 14:13:00 +0200 | azimut | (~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in) |
| 2022-08-08 14:13:02 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 2022-08-08 14:13:16 +0200 | azimut | (~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) |
| 2022-08-08 14:16:53 +0200 | vglfr | (~vglfr@194.9.14.33) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
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| 2022-08-08 14:18:21 +0200 | BanUtama | (~blake.rai@user/BanUtama) |
| 2022-08-08 14:19:33 +0200 | zer0bitz | (~zer0bitz@2001:2003:f748:2000:f95b:2a74:4aa0:fd81) |
| 2022-08-08 14:24:59 +0200 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!) |
| 2022-08-08 14:25:02 +0200 | matthewmosior | (~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 14:28:08 +0200 | ski | (~ski@46.183.103.8) |
| 2022-08-08 14:28:14 +0200 | BanUtama | (~blake.rai@user/BanUtama) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 14:29:09 +0200 | Andrew | HaxCPU |
| 2022-08-08 14:29:13 +0200 | HaxCPU | Andrew |
| 2022-08-08 14:31:36 +0200 | mc47 | (~mc47@xmonad/TheMC47) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-08-08 14:34:14 +0200 | vglfr | (~vglfr@194.9.14.33) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 14:34:16 +0200 | Andrew | HaxCUP |
| 2022-08-08 14:34:20 +0200 | HaxCUP | HaxCPU |
| 2022-08-08 14:35:03 +0200 | HaxCPU | ANdrew |
| 2022-08-08 14:35:05 +0200 | ANdrew | Andrew |
| 2022-08-08 14:35:55 +0200 | vglfr | (~vglfr@194.9.14.33) |
| 2022-08-08 14:38:31 +0200 | matthewmosior | (~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) |
| 2022-08-08 14:41:48 +0200 | jakalx | (~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) |
| 2022-08-08 14:48:15 +0200 | <gurkenglas> | I just want to reassure myself - in *Haskell*'s FRP libraries, you can easily memoize a function (UserId -> IO User) that's deterministic but makes expensive read requests, right? |
| 2022-08-08 14:49:03 +0200 | vglfr | (~vglfr@194.9.14.33) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 14:49:40 +0200 | vglfr | (~vglfr@194.9.14.33) |
| 2022-08-08 14:49:47 +0200 | luffy | (~chenqisu1@183.217.201.23) |
| 2022-08-08 14:50:44 +0200 | off^ | (~off@206.85.120.17) |
| 2022-08-08 14:50:56 +0200 | alp_ | (~alp@user/alp) |
| 2022-08-08 14:52:20 +0200 | <merijn> | Depends on the library? |
| 2022-08-08 14:52:40 +0200 | matthewmosior | (~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-08-08 14:52:46 +0200 | matthewmosior | (~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) |
| 2022-08-08 14:53:36 +0200 | <kritzefitz> | gurkenglas: No mechanism that provides such memoization is known to me. But with the libraries I know, it should be possible to implement a combinator that provides memoization and would be easy to use. |
| 2022-08-08 14:54:26 +0200 | luffy | (~chenqisu1@183.217.201.23) (Client Quit) |
| 2022-08-08 14:55:02 +0200 | <kritzefitz> | Also, are you talking about event/behavior based FRP or arrow based FRP? I only worked with event/behavior based FRP and I hear arrow based FRP is very different. |
| 2022-08-08 14:55:42 +0200 | <gurkenglas> | Huh, I didn't know there's a different, arrow-based one! |
| 2022-08-08 14:58:56 +0200 | mc47 | (~mc47@xmonad/TheMC47) |
| 2022-08-08 14:59:10 +0200 | BanUtama | (~blake.rai@user/BanUtama) |
| 2022-08-08 14:59:26 +0200 | vglfr | (~vglfr@194.9.14.33) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 15:00:58 +0200 | vglfr | (~vglfr@194.9.14.33) |
| 2022-08-08 15:01:04 +0200 | <gurkenglas> | kritzefitz: would you do the implementation that works with any monad, and the user would provide (UserId -> Behavior User)? |
| 2022-08-08 15:04:38 +0200 | BanUtama | (~blake.rai@user/BanUtama) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 15:06:33 +0200 | <kritzefitz> | I'm not sure what you mean by “works with any monad”. At first glance, the problem you're trying to solve seems heavily tied to running or not running some IO, so I'm not sure how it would generalize to other monads. |
| 2022-08-08 15:07:32 +0200 | FinnElija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 15:08:10 +0200 | FinnElija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) |
| 2022-08-08 15:08:29 +0200 | <gurkenglas> | kritzefitz: Monad m => (String -> m a) -> String -> StateT (Map String a) m a |
| 2022-08-08 15:09:30 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2022-08-08 15:09:32 +0200 | EsoAlgo | (~EsoAlgo@129.146.136.145) |
| 2022-08-08 15:10:50 +0200 | <kritzefitz> | gurkenglas: I'm not sure how what that signature would do. How would it interact with FRP? |
| 2022-08-08 15:11:13 +0200 | <gurkenglas> | m would be set to Behavior |
| 2022-08-08 15:12:18 +0200 | eod|fserucas | (~eod|fseru@46.50.4.9) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2022-08-08 15:12:23 +0200 | yvan-sraka | (~yvan-srak@105.67.135.250) |
| 2022-08-08 15:12:38 +0200 | zxx7529 | (~Thunderbi@user/zxx7529) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 15:12:40 +0200 | eod|fserucas | (~eod|fseru@46.50.4.9) |
| 2022-08-08 15:12:41 +0200 | eod|fserucas | (~eod|fseru@46.50.4.9) (Client Quit) |
| 2022-08-08 15:13:00 +0200 | off^ | (~off@206.85.120.17) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 15:13:10 +0200 | fserucas | (~fserucas@46.50.4.9) |
| 2022-08-08 15:13:14 +0200 | <merijn> | Behaviour's aren't monads, though |
| 2022-08-08 15:13:20 +0200 | <merijn> | I don't even think they can be? |
| 2022-08-08 15:13:24 +0200 | <gurkenglas> | aren't? huh. |
| 2022-08-08 15:13:38 +0200 | <gurkenglas> | i thought Behavior is theroretically Reader Time |
| 2022-08-08 15:13:51 +0200 | <kritzefitz> | It varies by library. In reflex they are monads, in reactive-banana they are not. |
| 2022-08-08 15:14:21 +0200 | <kritzefitz> | Thought the reactive-banana view seems to be, that they theoretically could be monads, but are not for performance reasons. |
| 2022-08-08 15:14:31 +0200 | <gurkenglas> | \f k -> StateT $ \cache -> case lookup k cache of Just hit -> return (cache, hit); Nothing -> (\result -> (insert k result cache, result)) <$> f k |
| 2022-08-08 15:16:04 +0200 | <kritzefitz> | But I'm not sure how a monad transformers would interact with a Behavior it's sitting on. But I doubt it can be used for memoization at runtime of the network. |
| 2022-08-08 15:16:58 +0200 | <gurkenglas> | that particular implementation might suffer because all inserts after the one for k have to be redone if the behavior of f k ever changes, but it should just work. wanna bet, kritzefitz? |
| 2022-08-08 15:20:16 +0200 | matthewmosior | (~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-08-08 15:20:40 +0200 | matthewmosior | (~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) |
| 2022-08-08 15:21:48 +0200 | <kritzefitz> | I'm not sure how this relates to what you wan't to do, since "f" wouldn't actually be able to execute any IO. |
| 2022-08-08 15:22:02 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
| 2022-08-08 15:23:50 +0200 | <gurkenglas> | kritzefitz: Behavior would as far as i understand in practice include IO capabilities - perhaps I should say that Behavior is ReaderT IO Time? :) |
| 2022-08-08 15:24:57 +0200 | <gurkenglas> | (Where liftIO :: IO a -> Behavior a would cache the result of its one invocation, rather than being rerun at every time.) |
| 2022-08-08 15:26:39 +0200 | BanUtama | (~blake.rai@user/BanUtama) |
| 2022-08-08 15:26:49 +0200 | <kritzefitz> | gurkenglas: I don't know of any library where Behavior includes IO capabilities. Most libraries I know have some sort of “construction” monad that can construct events or behaviors from IO. I.e. they have something like "poll :: IO a -> MomentIO (Behavior a)", but not "IO a -> Behavior a". |
| 2022-08-08 15:27:12 +0200 | <gurkenglas> | (...is that the right way to say it? perhaps i should say, it will only be *called* once, assuming that none of the ancestors update) |
| 2022-08-08 15:28:28 +0200 | off^ | (~off@206.85.120.17) |
| 2022-08-08 15:28:56 +0200 | <kritzefitz> | My first attempt at implementation in reactive-banana would be to make a wrapper around execute: `executeMemoized :: Event (a, a -> MomentIO b) -> MomentIO b` but no monads beside `MomentIO` would be involved. |
| 2022-08-08 15:29:25 +0200 | <kritzefitz> | Ah, wait, that wouldn't work. |
| 2022-08-08 15:29:40 +0200 | <kritzefitz> | because you wouldn't be able to tell if the function changed. |
| 2022-08-08 15:30:13 +0200 | <kritzefitz> | It would have to be `executeMemoized :: Event a -> (a -> MomentIO b) -> MomentIO (Event b)`. |
| 2022-08-08 15:33:02 +0200 | off^ | (~off@206.85.120.17) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 15:38:25 +0200 | jgeerds | (~jgeerds@55d46bad.access.ecotel.net) |
| 2022-08-08 15:39:26 +0200 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e70586513900a84d65605e14.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 15:43:55 +0200 | nilradical | (~nilradica@user/naso) () |
| 2022-08-08 15:47:41 +0200 | vglfr | (~vglfr@194.9.14.33) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 15:50:05 +0200 | ChaiTRex | (~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 15:50:59 +0200 | raym | (~raym@user/raym) (Quit: kernel update, rebooting...) |
| 2022-08-08 15:51:02 +0200 | jmdaemon | (~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 15:51:42 +0200 | ChaiTRex | (~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) |
| 2022-08-08 15:52:34 +0200 | mmhat | (~mmh@p200300f1c72ee918ee086bfffe095315.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: WeeChat 3.6) |
| 2022-08-08 15:54:45 +0200 | raym | (~raym@user/raym) |
| 2022-08-08 15:55:16 +0200 | vglfr | (~vglfr@194.9.14.33) |
| 2022-08-08 15:57:01 +0200 | nek0 | (~nek0@2a01:4f8:222:2b41::12) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat) |
| 2022-08-08 16:03:25 +0200 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7058651959b313eb5f3dc80.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2022-08-08 16:08:22 +0200 | <maerwald> | john carmack mentions Haskell (again): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I845O57ZSy4 (around minute 14) |
| 2022-08-08 16:10:33 +0200 | nek0 | (~nek0@nek0.eu) |
| 2022-08-08 16:11:27 +0200 | <maerwald> | some strong arguments against language features incoming |
| 2022-08-08 16:13:01 +0200 | <maerwald> | but he's more hating on lisp, but some of that is applicable to Haskell as well |
| 2022-08-08 16:19:02 +0200 | Kaipei | (~Kaiepi@142.68.249.28) |
| 2022-08-08 16:19:09 +0200 | Cerins | (~Cerins@m90-128-49-116.cust.tele2.lv) |
| 2022-08-08 16:23:18 +0200 | Kaiepi | (~Kaiepi@142.68.249.28) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 16:27:19 +0200 | zebrag | (~chris@user/zebrag) |
| 2022-08-08 16:29:10 +0200 | hippoid | (~hippoid@c-98-220-13-8.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 2022-08-08 16:33:54 +0200 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-188.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 2022-08-08 16:36:40 +0200 | matthewmosior | (~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-08-08 16:37:10 +0200 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7058651959b313eb5f3dc80.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 16:40:34 +0200 | shriekingnoise | (~shrieking@186.137.167.202) |
| 2022-08-08 16:40:42 +0200 | <Inst> | gaaah |
| 2022-08-08 16:40:51 +0200 | <Inst> | 9.4.1 is out, but I can't use GHCup to install it |
| 2022-08-08 16:40:53 +0200 | <Inst> | :-: |
| 2022-08-08 16:41:17 +0200 | <Inst> | daily reminder that Haskell is the worst language in existence (if not for all the others) ;) |
| 2022-08-08 16:41:44 +0200 | <maerwald> | Inst: ghcup devs don't get heads-up of upcoming GHC releases |
| 2022-08-08 16:42:48 +0200 | <geekosaur> | I monitor #ghc and still didn't know until the release announcement |
| 2022-08-08 16:42:57 +0200 | matthewmosior | (~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) |
| 2022-08-08 16:44:01 +0200 | <dolio> | What could you possibly be doing that requires you to use it 1 hour after it's been announced? |
| 2022-08-08 16:44:50 +0200 | <absentia> | dolio: web development |
| 2022-08-08 16:45:20 +0200 | <maerwald> | and so far ghcup has raised 300$, which is not for enough for me to postpone getting drunk just because there's a new version of a compiler |
| 2022-08-08 16:45:26 +0200 | <dolio> | Oh, I guess it's just the latest message that was 1 hour ago. Even 17 hours is extremely impatient, though. |
| 2022-08-08 16:46:16 +0200 | <geekosaur> | you'll get there. xmonad is slowly growing |
| 2022-08-08 16:46:18 +0200 | yvan-sraka | (~yvan-srak@105.67.135.250) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-08-08 16:46:32 +0200 | <absentia> | geekosaur: it's still actively developed? |
| 2022-08-08 16:46:58 +0200 | <geekosaur> | yes |
| 2022-08-08 16:47:13 +0200 | <absentia> | maybe i should switch back |
| 2022-08-08 16:47:28 +0200 | <geekosaur> | well, we mostly leave the core alone but it's about as developed as it will bve without a complete redesign. contrib is still growing |
| 2022-08-08 16:47:28 +0200 | matthewmosior | (~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 16:47:51 +0200 | <geekosaur> | 4 core developers |
| 2022-08-08 16:47:58 +0200 | <absentia> | geekosaur: what needs doing |
| 2022-08-08 16:48:14 +0200 | <geekosaur> | floating layer needs to be completely redesigned; it's a mess |
| 2022-08-08 16:48:18 +0200 | <absentia> | lol |
| 2022-08-08 16:48:23 +0200 | <absentia> | this is part of the reason i'm on fluxbox |
| 2022-08-08 16:48:38 +0200 | <absentia> | (the other is gaming, though i do less and less of that now) |
| 2022-08-08 16:53:01 +0200 | <Inst> | maerwald: that's dumb, GHCup is the official Haskell distro |
| 2022-08-08 16:53:08 +0200 | <Inst> | or semi-official |
| 2022-08-08 16:53:23 +0200 | <geekosaur> | official, these days |
| 2022-08-08 16:53:53 +0200 | <maerwald> | Inst: I don't know what official means. |
| 2022-08-08 16:54:26 +0200 | <maerwald> | Inst: ghcup does not have a backup maintainer, fyi. But the codebase should be sufficiently simple for someone to take over in case I die of liver toxicity. |
| 2022-08-08 16:54:37 +0200 | <maerwald> | cheers |
| 2022-08-08 16:54:50 +0200 | <geekosaur> | haskell.org/downloads tells you to use ghcup. that's official enough for me |
| 2022-08-08 16:55:07 +0200 | <geekosaur> | s/downloads/download/ |
| 2022-08-08 16:55:22 +0200 | alp_ | (~alp@user/alp) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 16:56:01 +0200 | <Inst> | maerwald: what? |
| 2022-08-08 16:56:07 +0200 | <Inst> | my liver is actually failing :( |
| 2022-08-08 16:56:26 +0200 | hounded | (~hounded@2603-7000-da43-eccc-0000-0000-0000-0cec.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 2022-08-08 16:56:32 +0200 | hounded_woodstoc | (~hounded@2603-7000-da43-eccc-0000-0000-0000-0cec.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 2022-08-08 16:58:05 +0200 | <maerwald> | Inst: oh... I was just referring to the bus factor |
| 2022-08-08 17:02:38 +0200 | <Inst> | bus factor? |
| 2022-08-08 17:02:48 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | Inst: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_factor |
| 2022-08-08 17:03:31 +0200 | <Inst> | i guess a liver is a serious thing for me :/ |
| 2022-08-08 17:05:08 +0200 | <yin> | i bet buses are also serious for a lot of people |
| 2022-08-08 17:05:39 +0200 | <geekosaur> | I'm not worried about my liver. Kidneys are another question. Still. |
| 2022-08-08 17:05:43 +0200 | <yin> | cheers maerwald! |
| 2022-08-08 17:07:21 +0200 | <yin> | i'm not sure which organ i'm most worried about. let me se... |
| 2022-08-08 17:08:01 +0200 | zmt00 | (~zmt00@user/zmt00) |
| 2022-08-08 17:08:05 +0200 | Kaipii | (~Kaiepi@142.68.249.28) |
| 2022-08-08 17:08:57 +0200 | <maerwald> | if you want ghc-9.4.1, send a PR https://github.com/haskell/ghcup-metadata |
| 2022-08-08 17:09:10 +0200 | <maerwald> | but first you must fix the bindist for macOS, because it's broken |
| 2022-08-08 17:09:25 +0200 | azimut | (~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-08-08 17:09:31 +0200 | <maerwald> | patch is here https://discourse.haskell.org/t/ghc-9-4-1-is-now-available/4901/6 |
| 2022-08-08 17:09:33 +0200 | <maerwald> | good luck |
| 2022-08-08 17:09:43 +0200 | <yin> | what are you drinking maerwald? |
| 2022-08-08 17:09:48 +0200 | <maerwald> | water |
| 2022-08-08 17:09:56 +0200 | <yin> | good choice |
| 2022-08-08 17:09:57 +0200 | azimut | (~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) |
| 2022-08-08 17:11:17 +0200 | Cerins | (~Cerins@m90-128-49-116.cust.tele2.lv) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
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| 2022-08-08 17:12:26 +0200 | off^ | (~off@206.85.120.17) |
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| 2022-08-08 17:19:21 +0200 | noteness | (~noteness@user/noteness) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 2022-08-08 17:34:12 +0200 | matthewmosior | (~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 17:39:46 +0200 | ccntrq | (~Thunderbi@172.209.94.92.rev.sfr.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-08-08 17:40:38 +0200 | off^ | (~off@206.85.120.17) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 17:49:16 +0200 | <albet70> | lisp is a really good language, I learned it a few years, very interesting |
| 2022-08-08 17:50:23 +0200 | <albet70> | but they lack of lots libraries like network, GUI, mutlpile threading etc... |
| 2022-08-08 17:50:36 +0200 | <albet70> | so they have SRFI IIRC |
| 2022-08-08 17:52:57 +0200 | <albet70> | every scheme implement has its own libraries and their are not common to other implements, but common lisp does have lots of common libraries |
| 2022-08-08 17:54:36 +0200 | <albet70> | nowaday the famous scheme should be racket and guile |
| 2022-08-08 17:54:39 +0200 | azimut | (~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 17:57:44 +0200 | azimut | (~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) |
| 2022-08-08 18:00:06 +0200 | lortabac | (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:4e0c:e99e:6174:90b2) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8) |
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| 2022-08-08 20:08:59 +0200 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 20:10:20 +0200 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) |
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| 2022-08-08 20:18:47 +0200 | vglfr | (~vglfr@194.9.14.33) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
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| 2022-08-08 20:23:03 +0200 | <Inst> | @albert70 |
| 2022-08-08 20:23:03 +0200 | <lambdabot> | Unknown command, try @list |
| 2022-08-08 20:23:05 +0200 | <Inst> | albet70 |
| 2022-08-08 20:23:16 +0200 | <Inst> | technically it's clojure that's the lisp to care about |
| 2022-08-08 20:23:24 +0200 | <Inst> | oh wait, you said scheme |
| 2022-08-08 20:24:42 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
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| 2022-08-08 21:12:43 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d172-219-86-154.abhsia.telus.net) |
| 2022-08-08 21:13:40 +0200 | nate4 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) |
| 2022-08-08 21:15:07 +0200 | hounded_1969 | (~hounded@2603-7000-da43-eccc-0000-0000-0000-0cec.res6.spectrum.com) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2022-08-08 21:15:47 +0200 | hounded_1969 | (~hounded@2603-7000-da43-eccc-0000-0000-0000-0cec.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 2022-08-08 21:15:50 +0200 | kenran | (~kenran@200116b82be4d7006ad07ac81bd27ff7.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Quit: WeeChat info:version) |
| 2022-08-08 21:16:07 +0200 | gurkenglas | (~gurkengla@p548ac72e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2022-08-08 21:16:58 +0200 | _koolazer | koolazer |
| 2022-08-08 21:17:15 +0200 | hgolden | (~hgolden2@cpe-172-251-233-141.socal.res.rr.com) (Quit: Konversation terminated!) |
| 2022-08-08 21:17:20 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-08-08 21:17:20 +0200 | phma | (phma@2001:5b0:212a:9228:43b4:3753:d2af:c117) |
| 2022-08-08 21:17:57 +0200 | nate4 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 21:18:00 +0200 | hgolden | (~hgolden2@cpe-172-251-233-141.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 2022-08-08 21:18:50 +0200 | notzmv | (~zmv@user/notzmv) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 21:19:32 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 2022-08-08 21:20:18 +0200 | vglfr | (~vglfr@194.9.14.33) |
| 2022-08-08 21:30:10 +0200 | tomboy64 | (~tomboy64@user/tomboy64) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-08-08 21:30:46 +0200 | tomboy64 | (~tomboy64@user/tomboy64) |
| 2022-08-08 21:39:37 +0200 | mastarija | (~mastarija@2a05:4f46:e03:6000:85f8:4aee:8193:1dbb) |
| 2022-08-08 21:43:04 +0200 | coot | (~coot@213.134.176.158) |
| 2022-08-08 21:43:22 +0200 | jgeerds | (~jgeerds@55d46bad.access.ecotel.net) |
| 2022-08-08 21:46:14 +0200 | <mastarija> | Any idea on how to throw an error for a whole sub api when using the servant generics? I have something like this `AuthResult User -> SubAPI ( AsServerT AppM )` |
| 2022-08-08 21:47:14 +0200 | waleee | (~waleee@2001:9b0:213:7200:cc36:a556:b1e8:b340) |
| 2022-08-08 21:47:28 +0200 | <mastarija> | Instead of checking `AuthResult User` on every `SubAPI` field, I'd like to check it only once and either throw an error or return `SubAPI ( AsServerT AppM )`. |
| 2022-08-08 21:49:12 +0200 | coot | (~coot@213.134.176.158) (Quit: coot) |
| 2022-08-08 21:49:40 +0200 | coot | (~coot@213.134.176.158) |
| 2022-08-08 21:51:30 +0200 | examors | (~examors@user/examors) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 21:51:48 +0200 | examors | (~examors@user/examors) |
| 2022-08-08 21:52:29 +0200 | cheater1__ | (~Username@user/cheater) |
| 2022-08-08 21:52:32 +0200 | cheater | (~Username@user/cheater) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 21:52:33 +0200 | cheater1__ | cheater |
| 2022-08-08 21:56:03 +0200 | matthewmosior | (~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-08-08 21:56:14 +0200 | cosimone | (~user@93-44-186-171.ip98.fastwebnet.it) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-08-08 21:56:35 +0200 | EvanR | (~EvanR@user/evanr) |
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| 2022-08-08 21:58:14 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2022-08-08 21:59:29 +0200 | matthewmosior | (~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) |
| 2022-08-08 22:03:47 +0200 | matthewmosior | (~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 22:05:51 +0200 | mastarija | (~mastarija@2a05:4f46:e03:6000:85f8:4aee:8193:1dbb) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2022-08-08 22:08:01 +0200 | qwedfg | (~qwedfg@user/qwedfg) |
| 2022-08-08 22:10:46 +0200 | cosimone | (~user@93-44-186-171.ip98.fastwebnet.it) |
| 2022-08-08 22:11:41 +0200 | matthewmosior | (~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) |
| 2022-08-08 22:13:27 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 22:16:04 +0200 | matthewmosior | (~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 22:17:18 +0200 | ec_ | (~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) |
| 2022-08-08 22:17:19 +0200 | zanyan | (~zanyan@2a02:6b64:f194:0:91a7:f4bd:11f:2d0e) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2022-08-08 22:18:01 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
| 2022-08-08 22:20:21 +0200 | titibandit | (~titibandi@xdsl-212-8-147-38.nc.de) |
| 2022-08-08 22:21:19 +0200 | <darchitect> | hey guys, coming from a machine learning guy that's not used to more abtracts maths, my mind has been blowing by a couple of things about Haskell and the ideas that come with it - namely Propositions as Types |
| 2022-08-08 22:21:36 +0200 | ec_ | ec |
| 2022-08-08 22:21:40 +0200 | adanwan | (~adanwan@gateway/tor-sasl/adanwan) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-08-08 22:22:19 +0200 | <darchitect> | from what I've seen online (a particular video by Odenkirch (Computerphile)) - it seems that we can KNOW whether a program is computable or not just by the type ... am I getting something wrong here? |
| 2022-08-08 22:22:47 +0200 | <EvanR> | oh yes, ol per martin lof intuitionistic type theory |
| 2022-08-08 22:23:01 +0200 | matthewmosior | (~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) |
| 2022-08-08 22:23:21 +0200 | <darchitect> | EvanR: is that what I should google or what I should know already ? :D |
| 2022-08-08 22:23:38 +0200 | <EvanR> | if your type system is constructed in a such a way, then all programs (because they have a type), "are computable" (don't get stuck) |
| 2022-08-08 22:24:18 +0200 | <EvanR> | which invariably leaves a lot of previously cromulent programs on the cutting room floor because your type system can't handle them, or your brain can't handle it |
| 2022-08-08 22:24:25 +0200 | <merijn> | darchitect: Depends what you wanna learn and why? |
| 2022-08-08 22:25:15 +0200 | <darchitect> | I just want to learn it as a fascinating topic in programming. Too sick and tired of python and stats related maths and decided to broaden the knowledge abit |
| 2022-08-08 22:25:34 +0200 | <EvanR> | welcome </spookybutler> |
| 2022-08-08 22:26:22 +0200 | <darchitect> | I am learning to write smart contracts with Cardano (as a main reason to learning Haskell), but to be honest the more I learn about Haskell the less I want to apply to real things and the more I want to just learn Category Theory, Type Theory etc.. :D |
| 2022-08-08 22:26:28 +0200 | <merijn> | darchitect: So, if you're into the math but sick of stats-y math, lemme introduce you to |
| 2022-08-08 22:26:36 +0200 | <merijn> | @where sf |
| 2022-08-08 22:26:36 +0200 | <lambdabot> | "Software Foundations" by Pierce,Casinghino,Greenberg,Sjöberg,Yorgey in 2011-06 at <http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/sf/> about "the mathematical theory of programming and programming languages", |
| 2022-08-08 22:26:36 +0200 | <lambdabot> | "It develops basic concepts of functional programming, logic, operational semantics, lambda-calculus, and static type systems, using the Coq proof assistant." |
| 2022-08-08 22:28:41 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | yes the sf book is cool |
| 2022-08-08 22:28:57 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | I did only a small portion of it, but it was fun |
| 2022-08-08 22:29:01 +0200 | <EvanR> | darchitect, fun basic fact to chew... in the simply typed lambda calculus, all programs terminate |
| 2022-08-08 22:29:02 +0200 | <merijn> | tomsmeding: Did you ever go to OPLSS? |
| 2022-08-08 22:29:09 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | merijn: no |
| 2022-08-08 22:29:21 +0200 | <merijn> | I highly recommend it :) |
| 2022-08-08 22:29:41 +0200 | <merijn> | Well, if you don't mind being absolutely *destroyed* after a summer school :p |
| 2022-08-08 22:30:06 +0200 | <EvanR> | before you think about it and conclude simply typed lambda calculus is useless, you could use it in the real world for domain specific problems (domain specific language). Possibly with modifications |
| 2022-08-08 22:30:09 +0200 | <darchitect> | I've gone through the Haskellbook |
| 2022-08-08 22:30:26 +0200 | <darchitect> | and I've got the main gist of most topics |
| 2022-08-08 22:30:39 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | merijn: would be next year though |
| 2022-08-08 22:31:01 +0200 | <darchitect> | but I've also found a good course by Bartosz Milewski on Category Theory |
| 2022-08-08 22:31:04 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | first year of my phd it was either online or cancelled, this time I was very busy writing a paper |
| 2022-08-08 22:31:27 +0200 | <darchitect> | do you reckon I should start with that ?.. and if yes - what would be a good book companion to solve problems for practice ? |
| 2022-08-08 22:32:07 +0200 | <EvanR> | the bartosz category theory thing does intro category theory, but I'm not sure if the "for programmers / programming" is accurate xD |
| 2022-08-08 22:32:07 +0200 | pmarg | (~pmarg@138.199.6.238) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 22:32:41 +0200 | <darchitect> | as in he goes in the mathy nitty gritty or you don't agree with him skipping the mathy bits ? |
| 2022-08-08 22:32:46 +0200 | <merijn> | tomsmeding: yeah, everything being online kinda sucked |
| 2022-08-08 22:32:49 +0200 | <EvanR> | I like leinster basic category theory for that |
| 2022-08-08 22:32:57 +0200 | <merijn> | Why do you think I slacked off on finishing my thesis for 2 years? ;) |
| 2022-08-08 22:33:11 +0200 | <EvanR> | which is apparently free online https://arxiv.org/abs/1612.09375 |
| 2022-08-08 22:33:16 +0200 | <merijn> | Under no circumstances was I gonna have a Zoom defense :p |
| 2022-08-08 22:33:24 +0200 | <darchitect> | nicee |
| 2022-08-08 22:33:28 +0200 | <darchitect> | thanks a bunch ! |
| 2022-08-08 22:33:34 +0200 | <darchitect> | are you guys currently students ? |
| 2022-08-08 22:33:50 +0200 | <darchitect> | or grumpy old functional devs |
| 2022-08-08 22:33:52 +0200 | <darchitect> | :d |
| 2022-08-08 22:33:59 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | merijn: lol |
| 2022-08-08 22:34:01 +0200 | <EvanR> | *what ARE you* |
| 2022-08-08 22:34:06 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | darchitect: I'm a phd student |
| 2022-08-08 22:34:18 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | age range is very wide here :p |
| 2022-08-08 22:34:28 +0200 | <merijn> | tomsmeding: tbh, not even really joking |
| 2022-08-08 22:34:33 +0200 | <darchitect> | sorry bad English |
| 2022-08-08 22:34:49 +0200 | tomsmeding | didn't detect any bad english |
| 2022-08-08 22:34:52 +0200 | <darchitect> | I meant it more like "good ol grumpy devs" as opposed "aged out of their skin old devs" |
| 2022-08-08 22:34:54 +0200 | <darchitect> | :D |
| 2022-08-08 22:35:02 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | :) |
| 2022-08-08 22:35:04 +0200 | <darchitect> | opposed to * |
| 2022-08-08 22:35:09 +0200 | <merijn> | During 2021 I did very little on it, because the thought of 40 minutes on zoom as end to this...ordeal...seemed depressing |
| 2022-08-08 22:35:11 +0200 | geekosaur | flips between them |
| 2022-08-08 22:35:14 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | darchitect: I'm curious, are you french? |
| 2022-08-08 22:35:15 +0200 | <EvanR> | I don't know about you but I'm just getting started |
| 2022-08-08 22:35:19 +0200 | <darchitect> | nah Bulgarian |
| 2022-08-08 22:35:22 +0200 | werneta | (~werneta@137.78.30.207) |
| 2022-08-08 22:35:24 +0200 | <darchitect> | but I've lived in london for 7 years now |
| 2022-08-08 22:35:29 +0200 | ski | (~ski@102-198-142-46.pool.kielnet.net) |
| 2022-08-08 22:35:37 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | does bulgarian also do the space-before-!-and-? thing then? |
| 2022-08-08 22:35:52 +0200 | <darchitect> | ooh good question never noticed |
| 2022-08-08 22:35:57 +0200 | <darchitect> | with 120 wpm I hardly notice |
| 2022-08-08 22:36:15 +0200 | <darchitect> | used to bet on typeracers back when I did my Bachelors |
| 2022-08-08 22:36:17 +0200 | <darchitect> | :D |
| 2022-08-08 22:36:22 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | darchitect: correct French spelling has a space before ! and ?, which often leaks into their English writing as well :p |
| 2022-08-08 22:36:36 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | hence my guess, but of course the correlation is not 100% |
| 2022-08-08 22:37:05 +0200 | titibandit | (~titibandi@xdsl-212-8-147-38.nc.de) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-08-08 22:37:17 +0200 | cheater | (~Username@user/cheater) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 22:37:20 +0200 | cheater1__ | (~Username@user/cheater) |
| 2022-08-08 22:37:24 +0200 | cheater1__ | cheater |
| 2022-08-08 22:37:26 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | merijn: I did my master's defence online and I didn't really care, because the whole thesis had been online anyway; now that I'm slowly starting to get in-person events again, I'm starting to appreciate the added value :p |
| 2022-08-08 22:37:57 +0200 | <merijn> | tomsmeding: Sure, but your master's project (presumably) wasn't a near decade long thing :p |
| 2022-08-08 22:38:04 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | :') no |
| 2022-08-08 22:39:43 +0200 | <darchitect> | was your masters on Category Theory ? |
| 2022-08-08 22:39:59 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | darchitect: no this https://studenttheses.uu.nl/bitstream/handle/20.500.12932/38958/report.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y |
| 2022-08-08 22:40:39 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | there are some actual CT people here as well, but I'm not one of them :p |
| 2022-08-08 22:41:44 +0200 | <darchitect> | nice nice sounds interesting |
| 2022-08-08 22:42:09 +0200 | <merijn> | 12 more hboxes to go and I'll be done \o/ |
| 2022-08-08 22:42:14 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | 🎉 |
| 2022-08-08 22:42:22 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | darchitect: merijn is finishing up his phd thesis |
| 2022-08-08 22:42:32 +0200 | <merijn> | Well "done", I still need to design a damn cover xD |
| 2022-08-08 22:43:12 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | you did the centering but not the cover design? /me confused |
| 2022-08-08 22:43:17 +0200 | <darchitect> | .. I'd love to go back to academia in the coming 2 3 years |
| 2022-08-08 22:43:21 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | how can you center something that you haven't designed yet |
| 2022-08-08 22:43:26 +0200 | matthewmosior | (~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-08-08 22:43:34 +0200 | matthewmosior | (~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) |
| 2022-08-08 22:43:36 +0200 | <merijn> | tomsmeding: centering the *titlepage* |
| 2022-08-08 22:43:41 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | oh the second cover |
| 2022-08-08 22:43:49 +0200 | <darchitect> | industry pays amazing, but the only times you do something more abstract / interesting is in the weekends or after work :( |
| 2022-08-08 22:43:59 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | I never know why books have a cover page with title and author, and then another page with title and author, and then the book starts |
| 2022-08-08 22:44:18 +0200 | <merijn> | The one with the whole "academisch proefschrift ter verkrijging tot de graad van doctor" kinda deal :p |
| 2022-08-08 22:44:26 +0200 | <merijn> | tomsmeding: I do! |
| 2022-08-08 22:44:31 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | darchitect: guess why I postponed work life and started a phd instead |
| 2022-08-08 22:44:58 +0200 | <darkling> | darchitect: My advice is to keep it that way. Above a certain level, academia's all about finding the money, not doing the interesting things. |
| 2022-08-08 22:45:01 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | ah I guess for a phd thesis it makes sense to have that title page with specific format and phd-particular metadata |
| 2022-08-08 22:45:02 +0200 | <ski> | tomsmeding : i do that thing |
| 2022-08-08 22:45:07 +0200 | <merijn> | tomsmeding: Because you get the mandatory title page, which should be follow by the committee page (which has nothing else) and these two pages are exactly specified by the Bureau Pedel |
| 2022-08-08 22:45:24 +0200 | <geekosaur> | the ones I see in the US have cover, then cover page, then (usually on the back of the cover page) LOC information which duplicates the cover page with more LOC information |
| 2022-08-08 22:45:32 +0200 | <merijn> | tomsmeding: But you also want a colofon (i.e. copyright, ISBN, etc.), which can't go on the committee page |
| 2022-08-08 22:45:49 +0200 | <merijn> | tomsmeding: And you can't print on the outside cover (well, not without paying more :p) |
| 2022-08-08 22:46:12 +0200 | <merijn> | So you need to insert an extra titlepage so you can print the colofon on that |
| 2022-08-08 22:46:16 +0200 | <darchitect> | darkling: yeah I know, most of my mates doing a phd say that it's not worth 3/4 years of your life for one topic, since chances are you're going to get bored of it at some point |
| 2022-08-08 22:46:21 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | yeah for phd theses I understand why the separation exists, there's a bunch of info that needs to be there in a particular format |
| 2022-08-08 22:46:30 +0200 | <darchitect> | but I don't know really... we'll see I guess |
| 2022-08-08 22:46:52 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | darchitect: getting bored during a phd is... a challenge |
| 2022-08-08 22:46:56 +0200 | <darkling> | darchitect: The PhD can be interesting, but after that... you're either doing someone else's thinking, or paying for other people to your thinking for you. :) |
| 2022-08-08 22:47:20 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | like, a phd is never too easy -- if that threatens to become the case, the work just gets more difficult |
| 2022-08-08 22:47:32 +0200 | <darkling> | Knowing more and more about less and less... it balances out. :) |
| 2022-08-08 22:47:39 +0200 | Midjak | (~Midjak@82.66.147.146) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) |
| 2022-08-08 22:47:58 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | but you got to be interested in pounding on problems for a long time :p |
| 2022-08-08 22:48:40 +0200 | <merijn> | Not valuing mental health too high is also recommended xD |
| 2022-08-08 22:49:05 +0200 | <ente`> | that seems to be recommended in general |
| 2022-08-08 22:49:05 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | or finding supervisors that care about mental health |
| 2022-08-08 22:49:09 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | which, granted, is a challenge |
| 2022-08-08 22:49:23 +0200 | <darchitect> | :d |
| 2022-08-08 22:49:28 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | but I managed :) |
| 2022-08-08 22:49:30 +0200 | geekosaur | never saw the point. in fact, less and less while he was nursemaid for grad students :þ |
| 2022-08-08 22:49:53 +0200 | <merijn> | geekosaur: Something, something, sunk cost fallacy |
| 2022-08-08 22:52:46 +0200 | eggplant_ | (~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 2022-08-08 22:52:47 +0200 | <merijn> | I was always bad at economics xD |
| 2022-08-08 22:53:13 +0200 | adanwan | (~adanwan@gateway/tor-sasl/adanwan) |
| 2022-08-08 22:53:15 +0200 | chimp_ | (~Psybur@c-76-123-45-25.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 2022-08-08 22:53:20 +0200 | allbery_b | (~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) |
| 2022-08-08 22:53:20 +0200 | geekosaur | (~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by allbery_b))) |
| 2022-08-08 22:53:21 +0200 | AlexNoo_ | (~AlexNoo@178.34.151.166) |
| 2022-08-08 22:53:24 +0200 | allbery_b | geekosaur |
| 2022-08-08 22:53:25 +0200 | qhong_ | (~qhong@rescomp-21-400677.stanford.edu) |
| 2022-08-08 22:53:41 +0200 | MironZ1 | (~MironZ@nat-infra.ehlab.uk) |
| 2022-08-08 22:53:42 +0200 | phma_ | (~phma@host-67-44-208-1.hnremote.net) |
| 2022-08-08 22:54:11 +0200 | chomwitt | (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc12:7400:7267:ab5e:fc89:abf0) |
| 2022-08-08 22:54:14 +0200 | hmw[at]1 | (~hmw@84-113-100-7.cable.dynamic.surfer.at) |
| 2022-08-08 22:54:34 +0200 | tcard__ | (~tcard@p945242-ipngn9701hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp) |
| 2022-08-08 22:54:35 +0200 | Flonk6 | (~Flonk@vps-zap441517-1.zap-srv.com) |
| 2022-08-08 22:54:37 +0200 | <darchitect> | join #machinelearning |
| 2022-08-08 22:55:07 +0200 | davl_ | (~davl@207.154.228.18) |
| 2022-08-08 22:55:18 +0200 | FragByte_ | (~christian@user/fragbyte) |
| 2022-08-08 22:55:18 +0200 | pgib | (~textual@173.38.117.79) |
| 2022-08-08 22:55:27 +0200 | Ram-Z_ | (~Ram-Z@li1814-254.members.linode.com) |
| 2022-08-08 22:55:28 +0200 | hgolden_ | (~hgolden2@cpe-172-251-233-141.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 2022-08-08 22:55:32 +0200 | haritzondo | (~hrtz@2a02:8010:65b5:0:6009:6384:e3cb:2220) |
| 2022-08-08 22:55:34 +0200 | Rembane_ | (~Rembane@li346-36.members.linode.com) |
| 2022-08-08 22:55:38 +0200 | stilgart_ | (~Christoph@chezlefab.net) |
| 2022-08-08 22:55:43 +0200 | Lears | (~Leary]@122-58-224-198-vdsl.sparkbb.co.nz) |
| 2022-08-08 22:55:44 +0200 | nek04 | (~nek0@2a01:4f8:222:2b41::12) |
| 2022-08-08 22:55:48 +0200 | dobblego | (~dibblego@122-199-1-30.ip4.superloop.com) |
| 2022-08-08 22:55:52 +0200 | dobblego | (~dibblego@122-199-1-30.ip4.superloop.com) (Changing host) |
| 2022-08-08 22:55:52 +0200 | dobblego | (~dibblego@haskell/developer/dibblego) |
| 2022-08-08 22:55:58 +0200 | byorgey_ | (~byorgey@155.138.238.211) |
| 2022-08-08 22:56:00 +0200 | srk- | (~sorki@user/srk) |
| 2022-08-08 22:56:00 +0200 | darkstarx | (~darkstard@50.53.212.60) |
| 2022-08-08 22:56:01 +0200 | cosimone` | (~user@93-44-186-171.ip98.fastwebnet.it) |
| 2022-08-08 22:56:08 +0200 | bollu7 | (~bollu@159.65.151.13) |
| 2022-08-08 22:56:11 +0200 | gawen_ | (~gawen@user/gawen) |
| 2022-08-08 22:56:13 +0200 | Deide1 | (~deide@user/deide) |
| 2022-08-08 22:56:17 +0200 | Lord_of_Life_ | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) |
| 2022-08-08 22:56:18 +0200 | byorgey | (~byorgey@155.138.238.211) (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by byorgey_))) |
| 2022-08-08 22:56:19 +0200 | fjmorazan_ | (~quassel@user/fjmorazan) |
| 2022-08-08 22:56:20 +0200 | zero | (~z@user/zero) |
| 2022-08-08 22:56:20 +0200 | byorgey_ | byorgey |
| 2022-08-08 22:56:21 +0200 | kraftwerk28_ | (~kraftwerk@178.62.210.83) |
| 2022-08-08 22:56:22 +0200 | Yumemi_ | (~Yumemi@chamoin.net) |
| 2022-08-08 22:56:28 +0200 | Katarushisu0 | (~Katarushi@cpc147790-finc20-2-0-cust502.4-2.cable.virginm.net) |
| 2022-08-08 22:56:30 +0200 | nek0 | (~nek0@nek0.eu) (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by nek04!~nek0@2a01:4f8:222:2b41::12))) |
| 2022-08-08 22:56:35 +0200 | nek04 | nek0 |
| 2022-08-08 22:56:41 +0200 | <geekosaur> | huh. wasn't the usual local router glitch this time? |
| 2022-08-08 22:56:44 +0200 | gurkengl1s | (~gurkengla@84.138.199.46) |
| 2022-08-08 22:56:51 +0200 | ian_ | (~ian@matrix.chaos.earth.li) |
| 2022-08-08 22:56:52 +0200 | micro_ | (~micro@user/micro) |
| 2022-08-08 22:56:53 +0200 | rush | (~sloorush@52.187.184.81) |
| 2022-08-08 22:56:55 +0200 | euandreh_ | (~euandreh@179.214.113.107) |
| 2022-08-08 22:57:00 +0200 | wrengr | (~wrengr@201.59.83.34.bc.googleusercontent.com) (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by wrengr_))) |
| 2022-08-08 22:57:02 +0200 | absentia_ | (~absentia@24-246-53-210.cable.teksavvy.com) |
| 2022-08-08 22:57:09 +0200 | wrengr | (~wrengr@201.59.83.34.bc.googleusercontent.com) |
| 2022-08-08 22:57:11 +0200 | dashkal1 | (~dashkal@user/dashkal) |
| 2022-08-08 22:57:14 +0200 | barrucad1 | (~barrucadu@carcosa.barrucadu.co.uk) |
| 2022-08-08 22:57:18 +0200 | kitty4 | (~kitty@096-039-147-043.res.spectrum.com) |
| 2022-08-08 22:57:19 +0200 | acro_ | (~acro@user/acro) |
| 2022-08-08 22:57:22 +0200 | machined1od | (~machinedg@d172-219-86-154.abhsia.telus.net) |
| 2022-08-08 22:57:24 +0200 | xff0x_ | (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:84d3:74ed:839d:b6c0) |
| 2022-08-08 22:57:26 +0200 | gdd1 | (~gdd@2001:470:1f13:187:2167:5afb:418e:21fa) |
| 2022-08-08 22:57:27 +0200 | jao- | (~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net) |
| 2022-08-08 22:57:28 +0200 | cods_ | (~fred@82-65-232-44.subs.proxad.net) |
| 2022-08-08 22:57:29 +0200 | LambdaDu1k | (~anka@ksit.fixme.fi) |
| 2022-08-08 22:57:30 +0200 | ente`_ | (~daemon@inferno.barfooze.de) |
| 2022-08-08 22:57:31 +0200 | WzC | (~Frank@77-162-168-71.fixed.kpn.net) |
| 2022-08-08 22:57:32 +0200 | sunarch_ | (sid526836@user/sunarch) |
| 2022-08-08 22:57:37 +0200 | sclv_ | (sid39734@haskell/developer/sclv) |
| 2022-08-08 22:57:37 +0200 | __________ | (~nobody@user/noodly) |
| 2022-08-08 22:57:40 +0200 | ystael_ | (~ystael@user/ystael) |
| 2022-08-08 22:57:50 +0200 | kawen_ | (~quassel@static.208.191.216.95.clients.your-server.de) |
| 2022-08-08 22:57:52 +0200 | barrucadu | (~barrucadu@carcosa.barrucadu.co.uk) (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by barrucad1))) |
| 2022-08-08 22:57:53 +0200 | glider_ | (~glider@user/glider) |
| 2022-08-08 22:57:57 +0200 | __xor | (~xor@74.215.182.83) |
| 2022-08-08 22:57:57 +0200 | bairyn | (~bairyn@50-250-232-19-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 2022-08-08 22:57:57 +0200 | barrucad1 | barrucadu |
| 2022-08-08 22:57:58 +0200 | zer0bitz | (~zer0bitz@2001:2003:f748:2000:f95b:2a74:4aa0:fd81) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 22:58:01 +0200 | heartbur1 | (~gass@2a00:d880:3:1::b1e4:b241) |
| 2022-08-08 22:58:02 +0200 | examors_ | (~examors@user/examors) |
| 2022-08-08 22:58:10 +0200 | monochrm | (trebla@216.138.220.146) |
| 2022-08-08 22:58:28 +0200 | tinwood_ | (~tinwood@general.default.akavanagh.uk0.bigv.io) |
| 2022-08-08 22:58:44 +0200 | Jonno_FT1 | (~come@api.carswap.me) |
| 2022-08-08 22:58:56 +0200 | mcglk_ | (~mcglk@131.191.49.120) |
| 2022-08-08 22:59:10 +0200 | ncf_ | (~n@monade.li) |
| 2022-08-08 22:59:18 +0200 | tired | (~tired@user/tired) |
| 2022-08-08 22:59:42 +0200 | alinab_ | (sid468903@id-468903.helmsley.irccloud.com) |
| 2022-08-08 22:59:44 +0200 | drlkf_ | (~drlkf@drlkf.net) |
| 2022-08-08 22:59:56 +0200 | tnks_ | (sid412124@id-412124.helmsley.irccloud.com) |
| 2022-08-08 23:00:16 +0200 | codolio | (~dolio@130.44.130.54) |
| 2022-08-08 23:00:28 +0200 | NiKaN_ | (sid385034@id-385034.helmsley.irccloud.com) |
| 2022-08-08 23:00:29 +0200 | mc47 | (~mc47@xmonad/TheMC47) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-08-08 23:00:39 +0200 | lagash_ | (lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net) |
| 2022-08-08 23:01:39 +0200 | statusfa1led | (~statusfai@statusfailed.com) |
| 2022-08-08 23:01:46 +0200 | swistak- | (~swistak@185.21.216.141) |
| 2022-08-08 23:01:46 +0200 | dka_ | (~code-is-a@ns3059207.ip-193-70-33.eu) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:07 +0200 | andjjj23 | (~irc@107.170.228.47) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:16 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:16 +0200 | cosimone | (~user@93-44-186-171.ip98.fastwebnet.it) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:16 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:16 +0200 | hgolden | (~hgolden2@cpe-172-251-233-141.socal.res.rr.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:16 +0200 | gurkenglas | (~gurkengla@p548ac72e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:16 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d172-219-86-154.abhsia.telus.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:16 +0200 | jao | (~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:16 +0200 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:16 +0200 | zaquest | (~notzaques@5.130.79.72) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:16 +0200 | Flonk | (~Flonk@vps-zap441517-1.zap-srv.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:16 +0200 | dolio | (~dolio@130.44.130.54) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:16 +0200 | _________ | (~nobody@user/noodly) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:16 +0200 | euandreh | (~euandreh@179.214.113.107) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:16 +0200 | absentia | (~absentia@user/absentia) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:16 +0200 | FragByte | (~christian@user/fragbyte) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:16 +0200 | pragma- | (~chaos@user/pragmatic-chaos) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:16 +0200 | cods | (~fred@82-65-232-44.subs.proxad.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:16 +0200 | kitty3 | (~kitty@096-039-147-043.res.spectrum.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:16 +0200 | _xor | (~xor@74.215.182.83) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:16 +0200 | gdd | (~gdd@129.199.146.230) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:17 +0200 | kraftwerk28 | (~kraftwerk@178.62.210.83) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:17 +0200 | Ram-Z | (~Ram-Z@li1814-254.members.linode.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:17 +0200 | yin | (~z@user/zero) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:17 +0200 | dibblego | (~dibblego@haskell/developer/dibblego) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:17 +0200 | Igloo | (~ian@matrix.chaos.earth.li) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:17 +0200 | fjmorazan | (~quassel@user/fjmorazan) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:17 +0200 | micro | (~micro@user/micro) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:17 +0200 | Inoperable | (~PLAYER_1@fancydata.science) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:17 +0200 | Psybur | (~Psybur@c-76-123-45-25.hsd1.va.comcast.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:17 +0200 | sloorush | (~sloorush@52.187.184.81) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:17 +0200 | ystael | (~ystael@user/ystael) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:17 +0200 | davl | (~davl@207.154.228.18) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:17 +0200 | Yumemi | (~Yumemi@chamoin.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:17 +0200 | dka | (~code-is-a@ns3059207.ip-193-70-33.eu) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:17 +0200 | LambdaDuck | (~anka@ksit.fixme.fi) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:17 +0200 | glider | (~glider@user/glider) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:17 +0200 | acro | (~acro@user/acro) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:17 +0200 | edwtjo | (~edwtjo@fsf/member/edwtjo) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:17 +0200 | Noinia | (~Frank@77-162-168-71.fixed.kpn.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:17 +0200 | Dashkal | (~dashkal@user/dashkal) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:17 +0200 | monochrom | (trebla@216.138.220.146) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:17 +0200 | gawen | (~gawen@user/gawen) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:17 +0200 | Guest1698 | (~Guest1698@20.83.116.49) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:17 +0200 | qhong | (~qhong@rescomp-21-400677.stanford.edu) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:17 +0200 | hmw[at] | (~hmw@84-113-100-7.cable.dynamic.surfer.at) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:17 +0200 | bollu | (~bollu@159.65.151.13) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:17 +0200 | mcglk | (~mcglk@131.191.49.120) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:17 +0200 | swistak | (~swistak@185.21.216.141) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:17 +0200 | MironZ | (~MironZ@nat-infra.ehlab.uk) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:17 +0200 | asm | (~alexander@user/asm) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:17 +0200 | srk | (~sorki@user/srk) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:17 +0200 | ente` | (~daemon@inferno.barfooze.de) (*.net *.split) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:18 +0200 | acro_ | acro |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:18 +0200 | srk- | srk |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:18 +0200 | monochrm | monochrom |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:18 +0200 | bollu7 | bollu |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:19 +0200 | Lord_of_Life_ | Lord_of_Life |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:19 +0200 | FragByte_ | FragByte |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:20 +0200 | Flonk6 | Flonk |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:20 +0200 | dobblego | dibblego |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:20 +0200 | MironZ1 | MironZ |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:23 +0200 | meinside | (uid24933@id-24933.helmsley.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:23 +0200 | conjunctive | (sid433686@id-433686.helmsley.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:23 +0200 | vglfr | (~vglfr@194.9.14.33) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:23 +0200 | Deide | (~deide@user/deide) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:42 +0200 | Rembane | (~Rembane@li346-36.members.linode.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:42 +0200 | canta | (~canta@user/canta) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:42 +0200 | stilgart | (~Christoph@chezlefab.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:42 +0200 | examors | (~examors@user/examors) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:42 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:84d3:74ed:839d:b6c0) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:42 +0200 | Vajb | (~Vajb@2001:999:70c:2b99:3e15:6929:5bc6:c014) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:42 +0200 | haritz | (~hrtz@user/haritz) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:42 +0200 | AlexNoo | (~AlexNoo@178.34.151.166) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:02:55 +0200 | Vajb | (~Vajb@2001:999:70c:2b99:3e15:6929:5bc6:c014) |
| 2022-08-08 23:03:37 +0200 | Square2 | (~a@user/square) |
| 2022-08-08 23:03:57 +0200 | In0perable | (~PLAYER_1@fancydata.science) |
| 2022-08-08 23:04:03 +0200 | anderson_ | (~ande@user/anderson) |
| 2022-08-08 23:04:06 +0200 | danso_o | (danso@danso.ca) |
| 2022-08-08 23:04:32 +0200 | ec | (~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-08-08 23:05:43 +0200 | absentia_ | absentia |
| 2022-08-08 23:05:51 +0200 | absentia | (~absentia@24-246-53-210.cable.teksavvy.com) (Changing host) |
| 2022-08-08 23:05:51 +0200 | absentia | (~absentia@user/absentia) |
| 2022-08-08 23:05:58 +0200 | monadplus | (~monadplus@135.red-83-42-13.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) |
| 2022-08-08 23:06:09 +0200 | vglfr | (~vglfr@194.9.14.33) |
| 2022-08-08 23:06:17 +0200 | darkstardevx | (~darkstard@50.53.212.60) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:06:17 +0200 | jocke-l | (jocke-l@a.x0.is) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:06:17 +0200 | heartburn | (~gass@2a00:d880:3:1::b1e4:b241) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:06:17 +0200 | anderson | (~ande@user/anderson) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:06:17 +0200 | hounded_1969 | (~hounded@2603-7000-da43-eccc-0000-0000-0000-0cec.res6.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:06:17 +0200 | ByronJohnson | (~bairyn@50-250-232-19-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:06:17 +0200 | tinwood | (~tinwood@canonical/tinwood) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:06:17 +0200 | kawen | (~quassel@static.208.191.216.95.clients.your-server.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:06:17 +0200 | Square | (~a@user/square) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:06:17 +0200 | son0p | (~ff@181.136.122.143) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:06:17 +0200 | sunarch | (sid526836@user/sunarch) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:06:17 +0200 | tcard_ | (~tcard@p945242-ipngn9701hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:06:17 +0200 | ncf | (~n@monade.li) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:06:17 +0200 | alinab | (sid468903@id-468903.helmsley.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:06:17 +0200 | phma | (phma@2001:5b0:212a:9228:43b4:3753:d2af:c117) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:06:17 +0200 | drlkf | (~drlkf@drlkf.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:06:17 +0200 | andjjj23_ | (~irc@107.170.228.47) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:06:17 +0200 | sclv | (sid39734@haskell/developer/sclv) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:06:17 +0200 | [Leary] | (~Leary]@122-58-224-198-vdsl.sparkbb.co.nz) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:06:17 +0200 | Jonno_FTW | (~come@user/jonno-ftw/x-0835346) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:06:17 +0200 | NiKaN | (sid385034@id-385034.helmsley.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:06:17 +0200 | tnks | (sid412124@id-412124.helmsley.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:06:17 +0200 | Katarushisu | (~Katarushi@cpc147790-finc20-2-0-cust502.4-2.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:06:17 +0200 | shailangsa | (~shailangs@host86-185-98-81.range86-185.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:06:17 +0200 | tomboy64 | (~tomboy64@user/tomboy64) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:06:17 +0200 | tired- | (~tired@user/tired) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:06:18 +0200 | lagash | (lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:06:18 +0200 | statusfailed | (~statusfai@statusfailed.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:06:18 +0200 | bastelfreak | (bastelfrea@libera/staff/VoxPupuli.bastelfreak) (Ping timeout: 612 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:06:18 +0200 | danso | (~danso@danso.ca) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:06:18 +0200 | jludwig | (~justin@li657-110.members.linode.com) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in) |
| 2022-08-08 23:06:18 +0200 | alinab_ | alinab |
| 2022-08-08 23:06:18 +0200 | tnks_ | tnks |
| 2022-08-08 23:06:18 +0200 | Katarushisu0 | Katarushisu |
| 2022-08-08 23:06:20 +0200 | anderson_ | anderson |
| 2022-08-08 23:06:21 +0200 | sclv_ | sclv |
| 2022-08-08 23:06:21 +0200 | sunarch_ | sunarch |
| 2022-08-08 23:06:22 +0200 | NiKaN_ | NiKaN |
| 2022-08-08 23:06:23 +0200 | bastelfreak | (bastelfrea@libera/staff/VoxPupuli.bastelfreak) |
| 2022-08-08 23:06:23 +0200 | jludwig89 | (~justin@li657-110.members.linode.com) |
| 2022-08-08 23:06:47 +0200 | jludwig89 | jludwig |
| 2022-08-08 23:07:16 +0200 | hounded_1969 | (~hounded@2603-7000-da43-eccc-0000-0000-0000-0cec.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 2022-08-08 23:07:39 +0200 | Guest1698 | (~Guest1698@20.83.116.49) |
| 2022-08-08 23:07:56 +0200 | zaquest | (~notzaques@5.130.79.72) |
| 2022-08-08 23:07:59 +0200 | pgib | (~textual@173.38.117.79) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:08:13 +0200 | pragma- | (~chaos@user/pragmatic-chaos) |
| 2022-08-08 23:08:45 +0200 | canta | (~canta@user/canta) |
| 2022-08-08 23:08:53 +0200 | rodental | (~rodental@38.146.5.222) |
| 2022-08-08 23:09:06 +0200 | asm | (~alexander@burner.asm89.io) |
| 2022-08-08 23:09:10 +0200 | __________ | (~nobody@user/noodly) (Quit: Reconnecting) |
| 2022-08-08 23:09:21 +0200 | jocke-l | (jocke-l@a.x0.is) |
| 2022-08-08 23:09:28 +0200 | _________ | (~nobody@user/noodly) |
| 2022-08-08 23:09:29 +0200 | edwtjo | (~edwtjo@h-109-228-137-133.A213.priv.bahnhof.se) |
| 2022-08-08 23:09:29 +0200 | edwtjo | (~edwtjo@h-109-228-137-133.A213.priv.bahnhof.se) (Changing host) |
| 2022-08-08 23:09:29 +0200 | edwtjo | (~edwtjo@fsf/member/edwtjo) |
| 2022-08-08 23:10:12 +0200 | meinside | (uid24933@id-24933.helmsley.irccloud.com) |
| 2022-08-08 23:10:34 +0200 | conjunctive | (sid433686@id-433686.helmsley.irccloud.com) |
| 2022-08-08 23:10:55 +0200 | gmg | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2022-08-08 23:12:21 +0200 | ncf_ | ncf |
| 2022-08-08 23:13:09 +0200 | tomboy64 | (~tomboy64@user/tomboy64) |
| 2022-08-08 23:14:39 +0200 | rush | sloorush |
| 2022-08-08 23:15:14 +0200 | BanUtama | (~blake.rai@user/BanUtama) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:15:51 +0200 | BanUtama | (~blake.rai@user/BanUtama) |
| 2022-08-08 23:18:18 +0200 | yvan-sraka | (~yvan-srak@105.67.135.250) |
| 2022-08-08 23:19:45 +0200 | <zero> | help. i'm trying to mess around with gloss and i'm getting a BadValue error. i think it has something to do with i3wm |
| 2022-08-08 23:20:22 +0200 | <zero> | https://paste.jrvieira.com/1659993564036 |
| 2022-08-08 23:20:44 +0200 | <zero> | does anyone have some insight? |
| 2022-08-08 23:22:13 +0200 | zmt01 | (~zmt00@user/zmt00) |
| 2022-08-08 23:22:23 +0200 | matthewmosior | (~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-08-08 23:22:33 +0200 | matthewmosior | (~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) |
| 2022-08-08 23:22:36 +0200 | ec | (~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) |
| 2022-08-08 23:23:29 +0200 | matthewmosior | (~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-08-08 23:23:38 +0200 | hgolden_ | (~hgolden2@cpe-172-251-233-141.socal.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:23:54 +0200 | <geekosaur> | looks like it, since it's an XConfigureWindow. sadly X diagnostics don't help much with saying what exactly is wrong |
| 2022-08-08 23:23:56 +0200 | hgolden_ | (~hgolden2@cpe-172-251-233-141.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 2022-08-08 23:23:58 +0200 | whatsupdoc | (uid509081@id-509081.hampstead.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:24:35 +0200 | <zero> | i'm lost |
| 2022-08-08 23:24:38 +0200 | zmt00 | (~zmt00@user/zmt00) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:24:38 +0200 | iphy | (sid67735@id-67735.lymington.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:25:11 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | zero: do you have a small reproducer? |
| 2022-08-08 23:25:56 +0200 | <geekosaur> | value of 0 suggests either zero width or height, or all bits clear for the value mask |
| 2022-08-08 23:26:15 +0200 | <zero> | i do not |
| 2022-08-08 23:26:19 +0200 | <geekosaur> | but it doesn't show which part of the WindowChanges struct is wrong |
| 2022-08-08 23:26:32 +0200 | whatsupdoc | (uid509081@id-509081.hampstead.irccloud.com) |
| 2022-08-08 23:26:33 +0200 | notzmv | (~zmv@user/notzmv) |
| 2022-08-08 23:26:46 +0200 | iphy | (sid67735@id-67735.lymington.irccloud.com) |
| 2022-08-08 23:26:54 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | zero: are you configuring the window to be resizable? |
| 2022-08-08 23:26:56 +0200 | <geekosaur> | I'd first check for the zero width/height thing |
| 2022-08-08 23:27:38 +0200 | Pent | (sid313808@id-313808.lymington.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:27:55 +0200 | pgib | (~textual@173.38.117.81) |
| 2022-08-08 23:28:58 +0200 | joel135 | (sid136450@id-136450.hampstead.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:28:58 +0200 | Pent | (sid313808@id-313808.lymington.irccloud.com) |
| 2022-08-08 23:30:04 +0200 | phma_ | phma |
| 2022-08-08 23:30:35 +0200 | joel135 | (sid136450@id-136450.hampstead.irccloud.com) |
| 2022-08-08 23:31:27 +0200 | <zero> | good call |
| 2022-08-08 23:31:39 +0200 | <zero> | i had one dimension set to 0 |
| 2022-08-08 23:31:43 +0200 | coot | (~coot@213.134.176.158) (Quit: coot) |
| 2022-08-08 23:31:43 +0200 | <zero> | thanks |
| 2022-08-08 23:31:52 +0200 | matthewmosior | (~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) |
| 2022-08-08 23:32:30 +0200 | waleee | (~waleee@2001:9b0:213:7200:cc36:a556:b1e8:b340) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:34:42 +0200 | waleee | (~waleee@h-176-10-137-138.NA.cust.bahnhof.se) |
| 2022-08-08 23:36:09 +0200 | matthewmosior | (~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:36:22 +0200 | monadplus | (~monadplus@135.red-83-42-13.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:36:47 +0200 | shailangsa_ | (~shailangs@host86-185-98-81.range86-185.btcentralplus.com) |
| 2022-08-08 23:38:07 +0200 | yvan-sraka | (~yvan-srak@105.67.135.250) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-08-08 23:42:02 +0200 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-188.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 2022-08-08 23:46:50 +0200 | tomgus1 | (~tomgus1@2a02:c7e:4229:d900:dea6:32ff:fe3d:d1a3) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:46:53 +0200 | Firedancer | (sid336191@id-336191.hampstead.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:49:54 +0200 | ircbrowse_tom | (~ircbrowse@2a01:4f8:1c1c:9319::1) (ZNC 1.7.5+deb4 - https://znc.in) |
| 2022-08-08 23:50:08 +0200 | ircbrowse_tom_ | (~ircbrowse@2a01:4f8:1c1c:9319::1) |
| 2022-08-08 23:50:10 +0200 | Server | +Cnt |
| 2022-08-08 23:50:11 +0200 | nonzen_ | (~nonzen@user/nonzen) |
| 2022-08-08 23:50:13 +0200 | bgs_ | (~bgs@212-85-160-171.dynamic.telemach.net) |
| 2022-08-08 23:50:37 +0200 | incertia_ | (~incertia@d47-69-133-171.try.wideopenwest.com) |
| 2022-08-08 23:50:54 +0200 | lisq_ | (~quassel@lis.moe) |
| 2022-08-08 23:50:55 +0200 | darchitect1 | (~darchitec@2a00:23c6:3584:df01:2d0:4120:37b2:95) |
| 2022-08-08 23:50:56 +0200 | bcoppens_ | (~bartcopp@vpn2.bartcoppens.be) |
| 2022-08-08 23:50:59 +0200 | degraafk_ | (sid71464@id-71464.lymington.irccloud.com) |
| 2022-08-08 23:51:03 +0200 | Unode_ | (~Unode@194.94.44.220) |
| 2022-08-08 23:51:26 +0200 | hnOsmium0001_ | (uid453710@user/hnOsmium0001) |
| 2022-08-08 23:51:32 +0200 | gmc_ | (sid58314@id-58314.ilkley.irccloud.com) |
| 2022-08-08 23:51:34 +0200 | PotatoGim_ | (sid99505@id-99505.lymington.irccloud.com) |
| 2022-08-08 23:51:43 +0200 | cheater | (~Username@user/cheater) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:51:43 +0200 | xnbya2 | (~xnbya@2a01:4f8:c17:cbdd::1) |
| 2022-08-08 23:51:48 +0200 | reda_ | (~reda@user/reda) |
| 2022-08-08 23:51:53 +0200 | x22x22x | (~x88x88x@2001:19f0:5:39a8:5400:3ff:feb6:73cb) |
| 2022-08-08 23:51:54 +0200 | Pent_ | (sid313808@id-313808.lymington.irccloud.com) |
| 2022-08-08 23:52:23 +0200 | acertain_ | (sid470584@id-470584.hampstead.irccloud.com) |
| 2022-08-08 23:52:33 +0200 | guygastineau | (~guygastin@137.184.131.156) |
| 2022-08-08 23:52:35 +0200 | cln_ | (sid336875@id-336875.ilkley.irccloud.com) |
| 2022-08-08 23:53:22 +0200 | integral_ | (sid296274@user/integral) |
| 2022-08-08 23:53:25 +0200 | krjt | (~krjst@2604:a880:800:c1::16b:8001) |
| 2022-08-08 23:53:29 +0200 | cawfee_ | (~root@2406:3003:2077:2758::babe) |
| 2022-08-08 23:53:57 +0200 | kadoban1 | (~kadoban@user/kadoban) |
| 2022-08-08 23:54:00 +0200 | entheogenesis[m4 | (~entheogen@2001:470:69fc:105::1:e7c4) |
| 2022-08-08 23:54:05 +0200 | Beo | (~ircuser@gabilgathol.bandrate.org) |
| 2022-08-08 23:54:16 +0200 | neceve | (~quassel@2.26.93.14) |
| 2022-08-08 23:54:28 +0200 | Beo | Guest4673 |
| 2022-08-08 23:54:37 +0200 | hendi_ | (sid489601@id-489601.lymington.irccloud.com) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | tomgus1 | (~tomgus1@2a02:c7e:4229:d900:dea6:32ff:fe3d:d1a3) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | Firedancer | (sid336191@id-336191.hampstead.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | pgib | (~textual@173.38.117.81) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | aforemny | (~aforemny@static.248.158.34.188.clients.your-server.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | sa | (sid1055@2a03:5180:f::41f) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | PHO` | (~pho@akari.cielonegro.org) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | bbhoss | (sid18216@id-18216.tinside.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | kadoban | (~kadoban@user/kadoban) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | Neuromancer | (~Neuromanc@user/neuromancer) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | Firedancer_ | Firedancer |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | ProofTechnique | (sid79547@2a03:5180:f:3::1:36bb) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | rubin55 | (sid175221@id-175221.hampstead.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | tritlo | (sid58727@user/tritlo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | x88x88x | (~x88x88x@149.28.53.172) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | Kamuela | (sid111576@id-111576.tinside.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e705865168dfbefacb50e5ef.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | entheogenesis[m] | (~entheogen@2001:470:69fc:105::1:e7c4) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | welterde | (welterde@thinkbase.srv.welterde.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | xnbya | (~xnbya@2a01:4f8:c17:cbdd::1) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | |beowulf| | (~ircuser@sourcemage/mage/beowulf) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | Goodbye_Vincent | (cyvahl@freakshells.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | Unode | (~Unode@194.94.44.220) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | RMSBach | (~guygastin@137.184.131.156) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | jonrh | (sid5185@2a03:5180:f:3::1441) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | saolsen | (sid26430@id-26430.lymington.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | h2t | (~h2t@user/h2t) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | darchitect | (~darchitec@2a00:23c6:3584:df01:2d0:4120:37b2:95) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | lisq | (~quassel@lis.moe) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | hnOsmium0001 | (uid453710@user/hnOsmium0001) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | incertia | (~incertia@d47-69-133-171.try.wideopenwest.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | cln | (sid336875@2a03:5180:f:3::5:23eb) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | bgs | (~bgs@212-85-160-171.dynamic.telemach.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | bcoppens | (~bartcopp@vpn2.bartcoppens.be) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | lambdap23 | (~lambdap@static.167.190.119.168.clients.your-server.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | gmc | (sid58314@id-58314.ilkley.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | cawfee | (~root@2406:3003:2077:2758::babe) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | hololeap | (~quassel@user/hololeap) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | Pent | (sid313808@id-313808.lymington.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | Raito_Bezarius | (~Raito@wireguard/tunneler/raito-bezarius) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | degraafk | (sid71464@id-71464.lymington.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | rburkholder | (~blurb@96.45.2.121) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | ircbrowse_tom | (~ircbrowse@2a01:4f8:1c1c:9319::1) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | PotatoGim | (sid99505@2a03:5180:f:2::1:84b1) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | SoF | (~skius@user/skius) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | pieguy128 | (~pieguy128@bas8-montreal02-65-93-195-183.dsl.bell.ca) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | nonzen | (~nonzen@user/nonzen) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | Player-205[m] | (~sashaserp@2001:470:69fc:105::2:30b8) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | reda | (~reda@user/reda) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | krjst | (~krjst@2604:a880:800:c1::16b:8001) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:07 +0200 | acertain | (sid470584@id-470584.hampstead.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:08 +0200 | hendi | (sid489601@2a03:5180:f:2::7:7881) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:08 +0200 | integral | (sid296274@user/integral) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:08 +0200 | vaibhavsagar[m] | (~vaibhavsa@2001:470:69fc:105::ffe) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:08 +0200 | hays | (rootvegeta@fsf/member/hays) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:08 +0200 | tomgus1_ | tomgus1 |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:08 +0200 | Goodbye_Vincent1 | Goodbye_Vincent |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:08 +0200 | incertia_ | incertia |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:08 +0200 | bgs_ | bgs |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:08 +0200 | SoF4 | SoF |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:08 +0200 | Unode_ | Unode |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:08 +0200 | lambdap232 | lambdap23 |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:08 +0200 | saolsen_ | saolsen |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:08 +0200 | gmc_ | gmc |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:09 +0200 | degraafk_ | degraafk |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:09 +0200 | acertain_ | acertain |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:11 +0200 | hnOsmium0001_ | hnOsmium0001 |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:12 +0200 | bbhoss_ | bbhoss |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:12 +0200 | sa_ | sa |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:12 +0200 | PotatoGim_ | PotatoGim |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:12 +0200 | cln_ | cln |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:12 +0200 | integral_ | integral |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:12 +0200 | hendi_ | hendi |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:13 +0200 | Pent_ | Pent |
| 2022-08-08 23:55:32 +0200 | cheater | (~Username@user/cheater) |
| 2022-08-08 23:56:42 +0200 | hays | (rootvegeta@fsf/member/hays) |
| 2022-08-08 23:56:47 +0200 | Player-205[m] | (~sashaserp@2001:470:69fc:105::2:30b8) |
| 2022-08-08 23:57:41 +0200 | vaibhavsagar[m] | (~vaibhavsa@2001:470:69fc:105::ffe) |