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2022/05/27

2022-05-27 00:04:04 +0200stiell_(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2022-05-27 00:53:39 +0200Josh(~Josh@104.247.241.176)
2022-05-27 00:54:26 +0200jmcarthur(~jmcarthur@c-73-29-224-10.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
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2022-05-27 00:54:56 +0200christiansen(~christian@83-95-137-75-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
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2022-05-27 00:58:41 +0200jmcarthur(~jmcarthur@c-73-29-224-10.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
2022-05-27 00:58:49 +0200 <Josh> n00b question: I defined a factorial function in the normal way (factorial 0 = 1, factorial n = n * factorial (n-1)), and it works fine for arguments up to 23, but then when I try to evaluate factorial 24, I get a negative value for some reason. Any ideas why this might be happening?
2022-05-27 00:59:26 +0200 <jackdk> What is the type signature? Integer overflow seems like the most likely culprit if you used `Int`. `Integer` is the type of unbounded integers
2022-05-27 00:59:54 +0200 <hpc> > maxBound + 1 :: Int
2022-05-27 00:59:55 +0200 <lambdabot> -9223372036854775808
2022-05-27 01:00:07 +0200 <Josh> I used Int -> Int
2022-05-27 01:00:08 +0200jmcarthur(~jmcarthur@c-73-29-224-10.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) (Client Quit)
2022-05-27 01:00:15 +0200 <jackdk> That'd do it
2022-05-27 01:00:45 +0200 <Josh> so if I change it to Integer -> Integer it should work properly?
2022-05-27 01:01:25 +0200jmcarthur(~jmcarthur@c-73-29-224-10.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
2022-05-27 01:01:51 +0200 <jackdk> Try it and see. The acid test is what the program does, not the opinions of half-asleep randos like me `:)`
2022-05-27 01:01:57 +0200 <Josh> lol thanks
2022-05-27 01:04:16 +0200 <Josh> Uploaded file: https://uploads.kiwiirc.com/files/40ef5b254651b4c28a44c1446ea7636c/image.png
2022-05-27 01:04:19 +0200 <Josh> success!
2022-05-27 01:07:12 +0200Josh(~Josh@104.247.241.176) (Quit: Connection closed)
2022-05-27 01:08:54 +0200jmcarthur(~jmcarthur@c-73-29-224-10.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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2022-05-27 01:14:44 +0200aliosablack(~chomwitt@80.106.160.253) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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2022-05-27 01:19:04 +0200 <EvanR> 64 bits should be enough for anybody, not named Josh
2022-05-27 01:20:15 +0200geekosaurwonders when the first 128-bit cpus will emerge. and how they'll name their extended registers (probably %h…)
2022-05-27 01:20:27 +0200 <geekosaur> or %o…
2022-05-27 01:20:41 +0200 <geekosaur> missed one there :)
2022-05-27 01:22:00 +0200 <EvanR> al, ax, eax, rax, jax, sax, dunno
2022-05-27 01:22:12 +0200 <EvanR> snap crackle pop
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2022-05-27 01:29:15 +0200chargenMacBethwin
2022-05-27 01:32:30 +0200unit73e(~emanuel@2001:818:e8dd:7c00:32b5:c2ff:fe6b:5291) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2022-05-27 01:36:30 +0200YoungFrog(~youngfrog@2a02:a03f:c21b:f900:445d:2ea0:2c8a:24db)
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2022-05-27 01:44:14 +0200 <brettgilio> Any programming language theory, category theory, or type theory nerds in here who want to join a dedicated channel, send me a msg!
2022-05-27 01:44:39 +0200 <romes[m]> I'll join
2022-05-27 01:45:46 +0200nate1(~nate@98.45.169.16)
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2022-05-27 02:02:20 +0200tremontremon_
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2022-05-27 02:16:03 +0200 <Axman6> we already have #haskell-in-depth mostly for that sort of discussion, FYI
2022-05-27 02:21:01 +0200jmcarthur(~jmcarthur@c-73-29-224-10.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
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2022-05-27 02:24:50 +0200 <Axman6> geekosaur: I was going to say I thought IBM already did that, but it's their "i" virtual instruction set, where pointers are defined to be 128 bits and translated to the native size on the host
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2022-05-27 03:44:38 +0200[_](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
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2022-05-27 03:50:41 +0200causal(~user@50.35.83.177) (Quit: WeeChat 3.5)
2022-05-27 03:58:42 +0200POGtastic(~mike@2601:1c0:6000:fe1:319d:5717:f15a:5d14)
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2022-05-27 04:02:38 +0200anon15041149(~anon15041@host-80-41-95-245.as13285.net)
2022-05-27 04:04:27 +0200 <POGtastic> Howdy all. I'm writing a Lisp interpreter, and I'm looking at how to implement `set!`. All Lisp expressions are of type Expr. My pure `eval` function is of type `Map String Expr` -> Expr -> Expr; the map stores variables, and we eval the expression to another expression. I *think* that I want to change this so that I return a tuple (Expr, Map String Expr) - the result, and the new state. However,
2022-05-27 04:04:29 +0200 <POGtastic> this doesn't quite like up with the State monad - the State monad is along the lines of `s -> (a, s)`, and instead I want something of `a -> (a, s)`. Is there such a pattern?
2022-05-27 04:08:17 +0200 <EvanR> I suspect you don't mean a -> (a, s)
2022-05-27 04:08:43 +0200 <sm2n> POGtastic: I think s -> (a, s) is what you want. The environment is the state you're passing around
2022-05-27 04:08:45 +0200 <EvanR> since that is letterphonically (technical term) the same as s -> (a,s)
2022-05-27 04:09:05 +0200 <jackdk> `eval :: Map String Expr -> Expr -> (Expr, Map String Expr)` sounds right for now (you might need something richer once you start dealing with scope)
2022-05-27 04:09:13 +0200 <sm2n> You probably just also want a function a -> s -> (a, s)
2022-05-27 04:09:23 +0200 <sm2n> (which is basically what your eval is)
2022-05-27 04:09:53 +0200 <Axman6> @unmtl State s a
2022-05-27 04:09:53 +0200 <lambdabot> s -> (a, s)
2022-05-27 04:09:54 +0200 <POGtastic> jackdk: Scope is achieved by `union`ing maps of local scope with the outer scope.
2022-05-27 04:10:10 +0200 <sm2n> Anyway, I have a question: does anyone know how to hook up Cabal and Alex (and Happy)? I appear to be in cabal hell of sorts
2022-05-27 04:10:25 +0200 <sm2n> (or if anyone knows of a working somewhat minimal example)
2022-05-27 04:10:31 +0200 <Axman6> sm2n: not without knowing anything about your project or the errors you're getting
2022-05-27 04:10:35 +0200 <Axman6> @where paste
2022-05-27 04:10:35 +0200 <lambdabot> Help us help you: please paste full code, input and/or output at e.g. https://paste.tomsmeding.com
2022-05-27 04:10:36 +0200 <jackdk> POGtastic: how do you know which map to write back into when performing a `(set!)`?
2022-05-27 04:10:43 +0200 <sm2n> sure, I'll do that
2022-05-27 04:10:51 +0200 <POGtastic> jackdk: oh no, I've bamboozled myself
2022-05-27 04:10:53 +0200 <EvanR> dynamic scope xD
2022-05-27 04:10:58 +0200 <anon15041149> is my base case here fine? https://paste.tomsmeding.com/Ih9Sefze
2022-05-27 04:12:02 +0200 <anon15041149> I need to use recursion and not just power n k = n^k
2022-05-27 04:12:16 +0200 <jackdk> anon15041149: what about raising numbers that aren't 0?
2022-05-27 04:13:16 +0200 <anon15041149> jackdk: for example?
2022-05-27 04:13:28 +0200 <jackdk> anon15041149: 6^0
2022-05-27 04:13:47 +0200 <Axman6> > 6^0
2022-05-27 04:13:49 +0200 <lambdabot> 1
2022-05-27 04:13:57 +0200 <monochrom> It is possible that the base case can assert that generally power anything 0 = 1.
2022-05-27 04:13:58 +0200 <anon15041149> power n 0 = 1
2022-05-27 04:14:23 +0200 <monochrom> Another way to put it is that you just have to do induction on the exponent.
2022-05-27 04:15:05 +0200 <POGtastic> thinking some more - should I reverse the arguments of `eval`? Having `eval :: Exp -> Map String Expr -> (Expr, Map String Expr)` means that I can call `state (eval expr)` and get a `State (Map String Expr) Expr`, I think
2022-05-27 04:15:52 +0200 <POGtastic> (not that it matters since there's `flip`, but that would require more flips and reverses than missy elliot
2022-05-27 04:16:58 +0200 <sm2n> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/7WZjeEEO
2022-05-27 04:16:59 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:213:7200:cc36:a556:b1e8:b340) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2022-05-27 04:17:06 +0200 <anon15041149> monochrom: Oh I think I got it
2022-05-27 04:17:39 +0200 <anon15041149> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/svjkwWS1
2022-05-27 04:18:46 +0200[_][itchyjunk]
2022-05-27 04:18:58 +0200POGtastic(~mike@2601:1c0:6000:fe1:319d:5717:f15a:5d14) (Quit: WeeChat 3.5)
2022-05-27 04:19:15 +0200Unicorn_Princess(~Unicorn_P@93-103-228-248.dynamic.t-2.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-05-27 04:19:56 +0200 <EvanR> > 0^0
2022-05-27 04:19:57 +0200 <lambdabot> 1
2022-05-27 04:20:01 +0200 <EvanR> \o/
2022-05-27 04:20:13 +0200 <Axman6> you CAN make somethign from nothing!
2022-05-27 04:20:17 +0200 <Axman6> something too
2022-05-27 04:22:12 +0200 <Clint> sm2n: Tiger/Main.hs ≠ Main.hs ?
2022-05-27 04:22:38 +0200 <anon15041149> EvanR: is that the right solution using recursion?
2022-05-27 04:22:58 +0200 <monochrom> Yes.
2022-05-27 04:23:07 +0200 <anon15041149> monochrom: thanks :)
2022-05-27 04:23:52 +0200frost(~frost@user/frost)
2022-05-27 04:29:32 +0200jargon(~jargon@184.101.87.126)
2022-05-27 04:31:49 +0200 <anon15041149> I'm kinda stuck on the ilog3 question :/
2022-05-27 04:33:22 +0200 <Axman6> what's "the ilog3 question"?
2022-05-27 04:33:45 +0200 <EvanR> integer log... 3
2022-05-27 04:33:57 +0200 <Axman6> 1
2022-05-27 04:34:00 +0200 <Axman6> NEXT!
2022-05-27 04:34:23 +0200 <Axman6> actually, 0
2022-05-27 04:34:23 +0200 <anon15041149> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/GMuMIFhS
2022-05-27 04:34:35 +0200wroo^(~wroo@173-160-91-30-atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2022-05-27 04:34:57 +0200 <EvanR> I object to the notion that div rounds down for you
2022-05-27 04:35:21 +0200 <EvanR> but I may just be channeling old school professor len blanks
2022-05-27 04:35:36 +0200 <Axman6> "2/3 = 0.666 (gets rounded down to 0)" ... "ilog3 2 ==> 1" does not compute for me
2022-05-27 04:36:52 +0200 <Axman6> > let haskellyiLog3 = length . takeWhile (> 3) . iterate (`div` 3) in haskellyiLog3 7
2022-05-27 04:36:54 +0200 <lambdabot> 1
2022-05-27 04:37:06 +0200 <EvanR> > div (-2) 3
2022-05-27 04:37:08 +0200 <lambdabot> -1
2022-05-27 04:37:15 +0200 <Axman6> > let haskellyiLog3 = length . takeWhile (> 1) . iterate (`div` 3) . abs in haskellyiLog3 7
2022-05-27 04:37:17 +0200 <lambdabot> 2
2022-05-27 04:37:23 +0200 <Axman6> > let haskellyiLog3 = length . takeWhile (> 1) . iterate (`div` 3) . abs in haskellyiLog3 2
2022-05-27 04:37:24 +0200 <lambdabot> 1
2022-05-27 04:37:56 +0200 <Axman6> oh I misread the example, nevermind my first comment
2022-05-27 04:38:03 +0200 <Axman6> > let haskellyiLog3 = length . takeWhile (> 1) . iterate (`div` 3) . abs in haskellyiLog3 20
2022-05-27 04:38:05 +0200 <lambdabot> 3
2022-05-27 04:38:16 +0200 <Axman6> anon15041149: don't use that ;)
2022-05-27 04:39:41 +0200 <anon15041149> Axman6: dw I can't read
2022-05-27 04:40:01 +0200 <Axman6> I SAID: DON'T USE THAT :P
2022-05-27 04:40:38 +0200 <sm2n> Clint: no
2022-05-27 04:46:38 +0200 <Axman6> > let haskellyiLog3 = length . takeWhile (> 1) . iterate (`div` 3) . abs in haskellyiLog3 9
2022-05-27 04:46:40 +0200 <lambdabot> 2
2022-05-27 04:47:00 +0200 <Axman6> > let haskellyiLog3 = length . takeWhile (> 2) . iterate (`div` 3) . abs in haskellyiLog3 9
2022-05-27 04:47:03 +0200 <lambdabot> 2
2022-05-27 04:49:20 +0200 <anon15041149> ilog3 0 = 0 \n ilog3 x = 1 + ilog3 (div x 3)
2022-05-27 04:54:15 +0200finn_elija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643)
2022-05-27 04:54:15 +0200FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Killed (NickServ (Forcing logout FinnElija -> finn_elija)))
2022-05-27 04:54:15 +0200finn_elijaFinnElija
2022-05-27 05:01:59 +0200jargon(~jargon@184.101.87.126) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-05-27 05:08:20 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex)
2022-05-27 05:11:07 +0200kenaryn(~aurele@cre71-h03-89-88-44-27.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) (Quit: leaving)
2022-05-27 05:11:30 +0200 <anon15041149> noob question but how does this evaluate? https://paste.tomsmeding.com/7ejbgQz0
2022-05-27 05:11:42 +0200 <anon15041149> what does the result++str do?
2022-05-27 05:12:09 +0200 <Axman6> > "Hello, " ++ "world!"
2022-05-27 05:12:11 +0200 <lambdabot> "Hello, world!"
2022-05-27 05:12:36 +0200 <Axman6> that is a very slow way to write that function though
2022-05-27 05:12:52 +0200 <Axman6> O(n^2) concatenations
2022-05-27 05:13:12 +0200 <Axman6> ish
2022-05-27 05:13:13 +0200 <anon15041149> what about the paste bin? can you explain what is happening?
2022-05-27 05:13:32 +0200 <Axman6> why don't you try to explain to me what's happening?
2022-05-27 05:13:48 +0200 <Axman6> how does repeatString 3 "ABC" evaluate?
2022-05-27 05:13:57 +0200 <anon15041149> ABCABCABC
2022-05-27 05:14:03 +0200 <Axman6> repeatString 3 "ABC" => ???
2022-05-27 05:14:06 +0200 <Axman6> no, one step at a time
2022-05-27 05:14:06 +0200 <anon15041149> what type is result?
2022-05-27 05:14:10 +0200 <anon15041149> oh
2022-05-27 05:14:21 +0200 <Axman6> repeatString 3 "ABC" => repeatHelper 3 "ABC"
2022-05-27 05:14:23 +0200 <Axman6> => ???
2022-05-27 05:14:29 +0200 <Axman6> => ???
2022-05-27 05:14:31 +0200jargon(~jargon@184.101.87.126)
2022-05-27 05:14:53 +0200russruss(~russruss@my.russellmcc.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-05-27 05:14:57 +0200 <Axman6> (missed the "" above, oops)
2022-05-27 05:15:09 +0200 <anon15041149> reslt is "" ?
2022-05-27 05:15:17 +0200 <Axman6> yep
2022-05-27 05:15:50 +0200FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-05-27 05:16:15 +0200FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643)
2022-05-27 05:16:15 +0200 <Axman6> resultHelper 3 "ABC" "" => if (3 == 0) then "" else repeatHelper (3-1) str (""++"ABC") -- do you agree?
2022-05-27 05:16:24 +0200russruss(~russruss@my.russellmcc.com)
2022-05-27 05:16:56 +0200 <Axman6> repeatHelper*
2022-05-27 05:17:21 +0200 <anon15041149> I'm just writing it out, I will put it into a paste bin
2022-05-27 05:21:01 +0200 <anon15041149> Yes
2022-05-27 05:21:38 +0200 <anon15041149> I got stuck after 2
2022-05-27 05:22:02 +0200 <anon15041149> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/vjqIYr1I
2022-05-27 05:22:32 +0200 <anon15041149> shouldn't str be "ABC"
2022-05-27 05:25:45 +0200 <anon15041149> Axman6: ??
2022-05-27 05:27:14 +0200werneta(~werneta@70-142-214-115.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2022-05-27 05:28:22 +0200 <monochrom> Ugh please don't use a helper for this. The helper makes things worse.
2022-05-27 05:28:43 +0200MironZ(~MironZ@nat-infra.ehlab.uk) (K-Lined)
2022-05-27 05:29:21 +0200werneta(~werneta@70-142-214-115.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net)
2022-05-27 05:29:31 +0200 <monochrom> Your helper is on its way to becoming an inefficent quadratic-time algorithm actually.
2022-05-27 05:29:59 +0200 <anon15041149> ok but I'm lecture 2 from the mooc
2022-05-27 05:30:19 +0200 <anon15041149> and they are talking about helpers
2022-05-27 05:30:43 +0200 <monochrom> Some other problems benefit from helpers. Not this one.
2022-05-27 05:30:58 +0200 <monochrom> Reversing a list benefits greatly from a helper. Not this one.
2022-05-27 05:31:12 +0200 <anon15041149> monochrom: can you help explain the evaluation?
2022-05-27 05:31:39 +0200 <monochrom> No. I refuse to help with this helper version. It would be a crime.
2022-05-27 05:32:10 +0200 <anon15041149> Please?
2022-05-27 05:34:15 +0200 <anon15041149> monochrom: please can you help
2022-05-27 05:37:43 +0200dsrt^(~dsrt@173-160-91-30-atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
2022-05-27 05:39:12 +0200coot(~coot@213.134.190.95)
2022-05-27 05:44:08 +0200 <hololeap> anon15041149: do you have a deadline or something?
2022-05-27 05:45:13 +0200 <hololeap> it might be hard to rush this stuff, depending on your background
2022-05-27 05:46:57 +0200nate1(~nate@98.45.169.16)
2022-05-27 05:49:40 +0200 <hololeap> learn it like you would a foreign language :D
2022-05-27 05:51:41 +0200 <hololeap> what was the book that was mentioned somewhat recently about calculating theta time for haskell functions?
2022-05-27 05:52:01 +0200nate1(~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2022-05-27 05:52:03 +0200 <EvanR> help me monochrom kenobi
2022-05-27 05:52:05 +0200 <maerwald[m]> Their teacher doesn't speak english well, that's why they didn't follow the lecture (supposedly)
2022-05-27 05:52:26 +0200 <hololeap> I've been there :(
2022-05-27 05:53:34 +0200 <hololeap> having your questions fall flat because of a language barrier sucks
2022-05-27 05:54:28 +0200 <sm> ha I've experienced that with many teachers sharing my same first
2022-05-27 05:54:28 +0200 <sm> language
2022-05-27 05:54:53 +0200 <hololeap> excatly, it alread is difficult and when there is a language barrier it just feels hopeless...
2022-05-27 05:55:36 +0200 <hololeap> it's a good way to learn to shut up and take the D
2022-05-27 05:55:56 +0200 <hololeap> no double entendre intended
2022-05-27 05:56:57 +0200 <monochrom> They have successfully done "power n k = n * recursive call" without a spurrious helper. repeatString is similar. At this point the teacher has nothing to do with this.
2022-05-27 05:57:47 +0200 <maerwald[m]> It's always the teachers fault
2022-05-27 05:58:40 +0200 <hololeap> right we should just pay thousands of dollars to be self-educated
2022-05-27 05:58:57 +0200 <hololeap> because the teacher shouldn't have to know how to teach
2022-05-27 05:59:51 +0200 <hololeap> obviously it's a double edged sword
2022-05-27 05:59:57 +0200 <maerwald[m]> I think you'd have to start with paying them better
2022-05-27 06:01:07 +0200dsrt^(~dsrt@173-160-91-30-atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-05-27 06:01:08 +0200 <maerwald[m]> Why would the top of the class go into teaching if the pay is shoddy. I mean some still do, but yeah
2022-05-27 06:01:30 +0200gdown(~gavin@h69-11-149-231.kndrid.broadband.dynamic.tds.net)
2022-05-27 06:01:35 +0200 <monochrom> Hell I am not top of the class, just above average. :)
2022-05-27 06:01:58 +0200 <monochrom> But I taught evaluation here: http://www.cs.utoronto.ca/~trebla/CSCC24-2022-Summer/01-haskell-basic.html#ev
2022-05-27 06:02:13 +0200 <monochrom> But it's really just plug and chug and just doing algebra.
2022-05-27 06:02:35 +0200 <monochrom> Hudak's book spends approximately the same short time on this.
2022-05-27 06:02:55 +0200 <maerwald[m]> Afair some high school teachers in france make half of what a junior software dev does per year
2022-05-27 06:03:06 +0200 <hololeap> monochrom, but we know you are good at answering questions :)
2022-05-27 06:03:10 +0200 <maerwald[m]> It's a disgrace
2022-05-27 06:03:58 +0200 <hololeap> some teachers just don't have the langauge down to understand someone who already doesn't know what they are talking about
2022-05-27 06:07:20 +0200 <monochrom> I would be sympathetic to "the teacher didn't explain", but I'm indifferent to "the teach didn't speak clearly" for the following reason.
2022-05-27 06:07:53 +0200 <monochrom> Presumably even if you didn't hear anything, there has been tons of code and some written notes.
2022-05-27 06:08:10 +0200 <monochrom> The student could have shown us those and ask us to fill in the gaps.
2022-05-27 06:08:14 +0200 <monochrom> In addition.
2022-05-27 06:08:38 +0200 <maerwald[m]> I told them to go over the lecture notes ;)
2022-05-27 06:08:48 +0200 <EvanR> Freenode U
2022-05-27 06:08:51 +0200 <monochrom> My languages are only English and Chinese. Yet one day I ran into a CS MSc thesis in Polish in my research area, I could read it perfectly.
2022-05-27 06:10:07 +0200 <EvanR> indeed I can understand physics papers from early 20th century in english or german equally
2022-05-27 06:10:12 +0200 <maerwald[m]> My suspicion is they didn't make notes thinking the teacher will hand them out. But not all do
2022-05-27 06:10:17 +0200 <monochrom> Generally arbitrary Polish is unguessable, but Polish in a specific context writing about a very narrow topic that I already know something about? You can basically use the math formulas and domain knowledge to reverse engineer the rest. I don't buy the "language barrier" theory.
2022-05-27 06:10:17 +0200 <EvanR> (equally bad)
2022-05-27 06:12:01 +0200 <EvanR> I will prove monochrom right by reading a random monad tutorial written in chinese
2022-05-27 06:12:11 +0200 <EvanR> should come pretty natural
2022-05-27 06:12:59 +0200 <monochrom> I also ran into a Prof from Singapore who had, well, the Singapore accent, so he pronounced "library" funny, namely, don't raise the "li", raise the "ry" instead.
2022-05-27 06:13:08 +0200 <hololeap> why can't my monoid be parsed?
2022-05-27 06:13:28 +0200 <maerwald[m]> Senglish is cute lah
2022-05-27 06:13:46 +0200 <monochrom> That was no barrier because consider the whole sentence, e.g., "so you call <funny word> functions", you expect "library" there.
2022-05-27 06:14:12 +0200 <hololeap> (pretend I'm somebody who just came here and asked this)
2022-05-27 06:14:38 +0200 <sm> hololeap:
2022-05-27 06:14:38 +0200 <sm> @where paste !!
2022-05-27 06:14:39 +0200 <lambdabot> Help us help you: please paste full code, input and/or output at e.g. https://paste.tomsmeding.com
2022-05-27 06:14:43 +0200 <sm> :)
2022-05-27 06:14:51 +0200 <monochrom> Yeah, that. :)
2022-05-27 06:15:35 +0200 <hololeap> ok, but what if they (I) was responded to with "I don't understand your question" and they just chose a different student
2022-05-27 06:15:56 +0200 <hololeap> it would be a little discouraging, right?
2022-05-27 06:16:21 +0200 <monochrom> I am not afraid to state "I don't understand your question" tbh.
2022-05-27 06:16:51 +0200 <monochrom> People need carrot-stick to learn to ask proper questions, too.
2022-05-27 06:17:07 +0200 <hololeap> but the implication was that "I don't understand your question because my command of your language is not strong enough, so I choose an easier question, that I can answer"
2022-05-27 06:17:19 +0200Guest580(~Gambino@user/polo)
2022-05-27 06:17:39 +0200 <sm> hololeap: I haven't read the whole thread but I agree that the responses in here can sometimes be a little brisk and scary, no offense to anyone
2022-05-27 06:18:07 +0200 <hololeap> sm, no I'm talking about teachers in college, specifically that don't know the spoken langauge very well
2022-05-27 06:18:17 +0200 <sm> ah ok
2022-05-27 06:18:41 +0200 <monochrom> And it is not hard at all. My students may start with a vague question that I may or may not understand, but they don't even wait for me to respond, they immediately know to continue with "actually can I show you my code?". It's that easy.
2022-05-27 06:18:54 +0200smstarts the day offering carrots and ends it double wielding sticks, maybe lecturers are like this too ?
2022-05-27 06:18:59 +0200 <hololeap> I'm just saying that speaking the language in a technical fasion is one half, but understanding n00b questions is the other
2022-05-27 06:19:40 +0200 <hololeap> monochrom: but they know you _could_ answer the question but just aren't choosing to!
2022-05-27 06:19:57 +0200 <maerwald[m]> I understood the question behind the question, which was "can you write the code for me?"
2022-05-27 06:20:11 +0200 <hololeap> that is _way_ better than someone who you suspect can't understand it!
2022-05-27 06:23:47 +0200treeshateorcs[m](~treeshate@2001:470:69fc:105::1:41c4)
2022-05-27 06:24:05 +0200anon15041149(~anon15041@host-80-41-95-245.as13285.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-05-27 06:24:15 +0200anon15041149(~anon15041@host-80-41-95-245.as13285.net)
2022-05-27 06:24:28 +0200 <anon15041149> monochrom: what did you mean by this? "They have successfully done "power n k = n * recursive call" without a spurrious helper. repeatString is similar. At this point the teacher has nothing to do with this."
2022-05-27 06:25:58 +0200phma(~phma@host-67-44-208-207.hnremote.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-05-27 06:28:11 +0200phma(~phma@host-67-44-208-124.hnremote.net)
2022-05-27 06:29:54 +0200andrey_(~andrey@p508d494e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2022-05-27 06:31:34 +0200 <Axman6> repeatString and power are basically exactly the same function, if you squint a bit
2022-05-27 06:32:54 +0200andrey__(~andrey@p200300dbcf0c4300976b5d73a51b6ad8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2022-05-27 06:34:05 +0200 <anon15041149> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/5qFs8Qux but it's fine
2022-05-27 06:35:33 +0200 <anon15041149> I hope I didn't upset monochrom
2022-05-27 06:37:18 +0200 <anon15041149> he wasn't helping because he didn't like the fact there was a helper was inefficient
2022-05-27 06:37:22 +0200 <Axman6> that looks good - being able to do this is a pretty important skill for debugging haskell code
2022-05-27 06:38:26 +0200 <anon15041149> Axman6: yeah, it's clearer when you write out each step, I wish there was a programme that did that for you lol, just to quickly see what's happening at each evaluation stafe
2022-05-27 06:38:29 +0200 <anon15041149> stage*
2022-05-27 06:39:00 +0200 <Axman6> Evaluating Haskell functions is all about substitution, taking the definition on the left of the = and replacing it with the right, substituting variables with the values passed in. if you can do that - on paper or in a text file - you'll find you can answer all the "how does this work" questions
2022-05-27 06:39:16 +0200 <Axman6> there are programs that do that IIRC. can't remember where though
2022-05-27 06:40:23 +0200 <maerwald[m]> Doesn't yahb have some limited functionality for that?
2022-05-27 06:46:04 +0200 <Axman6> yahb has been dead for a while now :(
2022-05-27 06:48:53 +0200 <Axman6> I would love it if we could move the ownership of lambdabot and yahb to the haskell infrastructure team. it's mission critical!
2022-05-27 06:49:39 +0200 <hololeap> what happened to yahb?
2022-05-27 06:50:03 +0200jludwig(~justin@li657-110.members.linode.com) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2022-05-27 06:50:04 +0200 <hololeap> I know it's been "dead" for a while, whatever that means
2022-05-27 06:51:02 +0200jludwig(~justin@li657-110.members.linode.com)
2022-05-27 06:52:25 +0200jludwig(~justin@li657-110.members.linode.com) (Changing host)
2022-05-27 06:52:25 +0200jludwig(~justin@user/jludwig)
2022-05-27 06:54:26 +0200coot(~coot@213.134.190.95) (Quit: coot)
2022-05-27 06:54:41 +0200geekosaur(~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by allbery_b)))
2022-05-27 06:54:43 +0200allbery_b(~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur)
2022-05-27 06:54:46 +0200allbery_bgeekosaur
2022-05-27 06:56:39 +0200coot(~coot@213.134.190.95)
2022-05-27 06:58:02 +0200zebrag(~chris@user/zebrag) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2022-05-27 06:58:43 +0200anon15041149(~anon15041@host-80-41-95-245.as13285.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-05-27 06:58:56 +0200anon15041149(~anon15041@host-80-41-95-245.as13285.net)
2022-05-27 07:00:27 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a8-176.dhcp.inet.fi) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-05-27 07:00:40 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a8-176.dhcp.inet.fi)
2022-05-27 07:01:40 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a8-176.dhcp.inet.fi) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-05-27 07:02:53 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@2001:999:600:879a:e69c:7638:2849:8a14)
2022-05-27 07:06:35 +0200 <Axman6> I haven't seen mniip for a while
2022-05-27 07:13:24 +0200biberu(~biberu@user/biberu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-05-27 07:13:57 +0200Guest580(~Gambino@user/polo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-05-27 07:14:10 +0200shailangsa(~shailangs@host109-152-9-235.range109-152.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-05-27 07:16:14 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Quit: Laa shay'a waqi'un moutlaq bale kouloun moumkine)
2022-05-27 07:19:04 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915)
2022-05-27 07:19:49 +0200biberu(~biberu@user/biberu)
2022-05-27 07:27:04 +0200jpds1(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-05-27 07:28:49 +0200 <treeshateorcs[m]> hello everyone, sorry for the noob question, but can i create macos native apps with haskell?
2022-05-27 07:29:43 +0200jpds1(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds)
2022-05-27 07:32:44 +0200Guest6540(~Gambino@pool-100-34-212-74.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
2022-05-27 07:34:33 +0200takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be)
2022-05-27 07:39:54 +0200Guest6540(~Gambino@pool-100-34-212-74.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2022-05-27 07:41:37 +0200vysn(~vysn@user/vysn)
2022-05-27 07:44:55 +0200michalz(~michalz@185.246.204.119)
2022-05-27 07:46:11 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus)
2022-05-27 07:46:59 +0200 <Lycurgus> treeshateorcs[m], yes if you compile it there
2022-05-27 07:47:34 +0200jargon(~jargon@184.101.87.126) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-05-27 07:53:10 +0200 <Axman6> treeshateorcs[m]: that depends how you define "apps"makingmacOS .app's is technically possible but difficult. making programs that run on macOS is trivial and people do it every day
2022-05-27 07:55:49 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: Exeunt juan@acm.org)
2022-05-27 07:57:28 +0200shailangsa(~shailangs@host86-186-136-116.range86-186.btcentralplus.com)
2022-05-27 07:58:07 +0200aliosablack(~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc05:e000:904f:df51:bc87:e667)
2022-05-27 08:12:38 +0200 <shachaf> Is there a nice way to split a list into two halves in one pass?
2022-05-27 08:14:47 +0200 <[Leary]> If it doesn't need to be the first and second halves, you can get the odd and even halves without needing to be too clever.
2022-05-27 08:15:02 +0200jao(~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2022-05-27 08:17:33 +0200 <shachaf> Yes, but if it does.
2022-05-27 08:17:36 +0200 <shachaf> But I think I have it.
2022-05-27 08:17:39 +0200pavonia(~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!)
2022-05-27 08:17:53 +0200 <int-e> > let splitH xs = go xs xs where go (_:_:xs) (x:zs) = first (x:) (go xs zs); go _ zs = ([], zs) in splitH [1..3]
2022-05-27 08:17:55 +0200 <lambdabot> ([1],[2,3])
2022-05-27 08:18:05 +0200 <shachaf> λ> let evens [] = []; evens [x] = [x]; evens (x:_:xs) = x:evens xs
2022-05-27 08:18:15 +0200 <shachaf> λ> let split i = go (evens i) i where go [] xs = ([],xs); go (_:es) (x:xs) = let (l,r) = go es xs in (x:l,r)
2022-05-27 08:18:22 +0200 <shachaf> Oh, int-e beat me to it.
2022-05-27 08:18:32 +0200 <int-e> No, I did something different
2022-05-27 08:18:40 +0200 <int-e> or did I?
2022-05-27 08:18:58 +0200 <int-e> I didn't, you're using 'evens' as a helper to match half the length
2022-05-27 08:19:11 +0200 <shachaf> Yep, pretty much the same thing, except yours is more direct.
2022-05-27 08:19:32 +0200 <shachaf> I had previously written "zipWith const xs (evens xs)" to get the first half, was why I had this function.
2022-05-27 08:19:53 +0200 <int-e> (well, there's an off-by-one difference for lists of odd length)
2022-05-27 08:20:12 +0200 <shachaf> Right, but you can just choose what to do there.
2022-05-27 08:22:04 +0200christiansen(~christian@83-95-137-75-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net)
2022-05-27 08:35:38 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-05-27 08:41:53 +0200singaporee(~singapore@vps-e326d58d.vps.ovh.ca)
2022-05-27 08:42:57 +0200simeon(~pi@dslb-088-069-178-224.088.069.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
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2022-05-27 08:48:17 +0200 <simeon> Why is it that in ghci :t [1] returns Num a => [a], but if I define x = [1] in an .hs file and load it in ghci, :t x returns [Integer]?
2022-05-27 08:49:20 +0200 <opqdonut> defaulting
2022-05-27 08:50:15 +0200 <opqdonut> or: the dreaded monomorphism restriction
2022-05-27 08:50:25 +0200 <opqdonut> this might help: https://wiki.haskell.org/Monomorphism_restriction
2022-05-27 08:51:47 +0200 <simeon> but doesn't ghci do defaulting as well? I thought that it was even more aggressive in that respect (with ExtendedDefaultRules and such)
2022-05-27 08:52:39 +0200 <opqdonut> good question. it might not apply the defaulting when using :t, only when evaluating stuff?
2022-05-27 08:53:55 +0200 <opqdonut> right, ghci does have defaulting, but it doesn't have the monomorphism rstriction?
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2022-05-27 09:00:19 +0200 <simeon> yeah, so with :set -XMonomorphismRestriction let x = [1]; :t x returns [Integer]
2022-05-27 09:00:52 +0200vpan(~0@212.117.1.172)
2022-05-27 09:01:10 +0200 <simeon> but :t [1] always returns the more general type no matter whether it's enabled or not
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2022-05-27 13:49:16 +0200 <anon15041149> Axman6: is this possible without importing genericLength? https://paste.tomsmeding.com/W1laDnJC
2022-05-27 13:49:58 +0200nate1(~nate@98.45.169.16)
2022-05-27 13:50:17 +0200 <geekosaur> you've already used fromIntegral once
2022-05-27 13:51:38 +0200 <anon15041149> Ok?
2022-05-27 13:51:53 +0200 <geekosaur> do you understand what it does?
2022-05-27 13:52:19 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@b133147.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp)
2022-05-27 13:52:31 +0200 <anon15041149> converts and Int into Float I think
2022-05-27 13:52:38 +0200 <anon15041149> but it doesn't work when I use it there
2022-05-27 13:52:47 +0200 <geekosaur> how are you using it?
2022-05-27 13:53:03 +0200 <geekosaur> my guess is you get your parentheses wrong (or missing entirely)
2022-05-27 13:54:08 +0200 <anon15041149> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/x0KzeKwd
2022-05-27 13:55:01 +0200nate1(~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2022-05-27 13:55:01 +0200alx741(~alx741@host-186-3-154-11.netlife.ec)
2022-05-27 13:55:29 +0200 <geekosaur> fromIntegral doesnot do the `length` for you
2022-05-27 13:55:39 +0200 <geekosaur> you apply it to the *result* of `length`
2022-05-27 13:56:02 +0200 <anon15041149> how do you do that?
2022-05-27 13:56:22 +0200 <geekosaur> uh. this sounds like you haven't been through the basics yet
2022-05-27 13:56:37 +0200 <anon15041149> It's a syntax issue
2022-05-27 13:56:45 +0200jollygood2(~bc8147f2@cerf.good1.com)
2022-05-27 13:57:55 +0200 <maerwald[m]> geekosaur: it's still the assignment from yesterday and they didn't listen to the lecture; )
2022-05-27 13:58:13 +0200alx741(~alx741@host-186-3-154-11.netlife.ec)
2022-05-27 13:58:45 +0200 <anon15041149> The assignment is over, I'm already too late
2022-05-27 13:58:55 +0200pavonia(~user@user/siracusa)
2022-05-27 13:58:55 +0200 <anon15041149> I've done the first 2 sets of the mooc
2022-05-27 13:58:59 +0200 <geekosaur> I know it's still that assignment, I recognize the data type
2022-05-27 13:59:06 +0200 <anon15041149> Yes
2022-05-27 13:59:09 +0200 <anon15041149> I know
2022-05-27 13:59:15 +0200 <anon15041149> but I've run out of time
2022-05-27 13:59:22 +0200 <geekosaur> fromIntegral (length i1)
2022-05-27 13:59:26 +0200alx741(~alx741@host-186-3-154-11.netlife.ec) (Client Quit)
2022-05-27 13:59:38 +0200 <geekosaur> or: (fromIntegral . length) i1
2022-05-27 13:59:55 +0200 <anon15041149> how does the full stop work? is that an operator?
2022-05-27 14:00:03 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2022-05-27 14:01:59 +0200 <geekosaur> yes
2022-05-27 14:02:07 +0200 <geekosaur> it's the composition operator
2022-05-27 14:02:18 +0200 <geekosaur> (f . g) x = f (g x)
2022-05-27 14:02:19 +0200 <anon15041149> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2486564/what-does-a-fullstop-or-period-or-dot-mean-in-haskell
2022-05-27 14:02:39 +0200 <geekosaur> it lets us compose functions to make bigger functions
2022-05-27 14:03:54 +0200 <geekosaur> (or chain functions together, but Haskellers prefer the more mathy "compose")
2022-05-27 14:05:30 +0200wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot)
2022-05-27 14:06:32 +0200 <hpc> it's the closest thing in ascii to the notation for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Function_composition
2022-05-27 14:11:47 +0200jollygood2(~bc8147f2@cerf.good1.com) (Quit: CGI:IRC (Error))
2022-05-27 14:12:11 +0200jollygood2(~bc8147f2@cerf.good1.com)
2022-05-27 14:12:11 +0200 <maerwald[m]> Teaching through fear 😄
2022-05-27 14:12:16 +0200ubert(~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf3b99a7e4ef9cea09a026ef.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2022-05-27 14:12:25 +0200jollygood2(~bc8147f2@cerf.good1.com) (Client Quit)
2022-05-27 14:12:47 +0200jollygood2(~bc8147f2@cerf.good1.com)
2022-05-27 14:15:03 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) (Error from remote client)
2022-05-27 14:15:45 +0200 <anon15041149> hoping my course work allows me to pass this class
2022-05-27 14:16:13 +0200shailangsa(~shailangs@host86-186-136-116.range86-186.btcentralplus.com)
2022-05-27 14:17:04 +0200littlebobeep(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2022-05-27 14:21:01 +0200raym(~raym@user/raym)
2022-05-27 14:26:37 +0200 <geekosaur> @where cis194
2022-05-27 14:26:37 +0200 <lambdabot> https://www.seas.upenn.edu/~cis194/spring13/lectures.html
2022-05-27 14:27:16 +0200 <geekosaur> might be worth going through this, especially if you're getting the same kind of incomprehensible TAs I did when I was in college :)
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2022-05-27 14:30:50 +0200stiell_(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell)
2022-05-27 14:31:40 +0200 <exarkun> in cis194 homework 6 exercise 2 it directs you to implement implement an O(n) fibonacci function using "standard recursion pattern(s) from the Prelude as appropriate". What does it mean by "recursion patterns"?
2022-05-27 14:32:21 +0200 <geekosaur> map, foldl, foldr, etc.
2022-05-27 14:32:49 +0200adanwan(~adanwan@gateway/tor-sasl/adanwan)
2022-05-27 14:33:11 +0200 <exarkun> Are "pattern" and "function" synonyms? Or are only some functions patterns?
2022-05-27 14:33:34 +0200 <geekosaur> think "design pattern"
2022-05-27 14:34:28 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:213:7200:cc36:a556:b1e8:b340)
2022-05-27 14:34:51 +0200 <exarkun> Hmmmm
2022-05-27 14:35:08 +0200 <exarkun> Oookay
2022-05-27 14:35:24 +0200jpds1(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds)
2022-05-27 14:35:24 +0200joo-_(~joo-_@fsf/member/joo--) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-05-27 14:36:28 +0200 <geekosaur> there's a common misapprehension that a "design pattern" is anything that can't be expressed directly in a language and represents a shortcoming. really it's any recurrent pattern of code
2022-05-27 14:36:42 +0200 <geekosaur> we use things like maps and folds very often, so they're Haskell design patterns
2022-05-27 14:37:16 +0200 <geekosaur> the alternative would be writing them out by hand every time, which *would* be an example of that misapprehension
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2022-05-27 15:37:11 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe)
2022-05-27 15:37:44 +0200 <telser_> Is there anyone around here that could review a stackage-content PR?
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2022-05-27 19:02:50 +0200 <Guest|62> Hey again all. Still working on this Haskell build. I've got the project to compile successfully now, but when i do `cabal install`, i get:
2022-05-27 19:02:51 +0200 <Guest|62> \
2022-05-27 19:02:51 +0200 <Guest|62> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/c4PLCLfN
2022-05-27 19:03:29 +0200azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-05-27 19:04:04 +0200azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut)
2022-05-27 19:04:54 +0200arjun(~arjun@user/arjun)
2022-05-27 19:05:25 +0200 <geekosaur> did you run `cabal update` first? (and are you running `cabal install` from the right directory/folder?)
2022-05-27 19:06:20 +0200zincy(~zincy@2a00:23c8:970c:4801:5ce3:174f:85c3:8411)
2022-05-27 19:06:55 +0200 <dmj`> Guest|62: --allow-newer ;)
2022-05-27 19:06:56 +0200benin8(~benin@183.82.25.126)
2022-05-27 19:07:10 +0200 <geekosaur> that doesn't look like that error
2022-05-27 19:07:20 +0200 <geekosaur> especially since it has an "any" in it
2022-05-27 19:07:57 +0200 <geekosaur> it looks like it has required dependencies but can't find them in the hackage index, which is why I asked about `cabal update`
2022-05-27 19:07:57 +0200 <Guest|62> I did do `cabal update` prior to `cabal build` and i do think im running `cabal install` from the right dir. Running it from the dir that contains `cabal.project`
2022-05-27 19:08:07 +0200 <geekosaur> hm
2022-05-27 19:08:19 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:213:7200:cc36:a556:b1e8:b340)
2022-05-27 19:08:19 +0200 <dmj`> those deps potentially exist, but at older versions, --allow-newer will have the affect of jailbreaking the cabal file
2022-05-27 19:08:58 +0200benin(~benin@2401:4900:2323:6c4b:5923:ae7:d378:d557) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2022-05-27 19:08:59 +0200benin8benin
2022-05-27 19:09:25 +0200 <Guest|62> hmm i did a `cabal install --allow-newer` and get the same error
2022-05-27 19:09:28 +0200christiansen(~christian@83-95-137-75-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net)
2022-05-27 19:10:30 +0200 <dmj`> Guest|62: then do a ' cabal exec -- ghc-pkg list resource-pool' for example
2022-05-27 19:10:38 +0200 <dmj`> and see what version is in your ghc-pkg list
2022-05-27 19:11:04 +0200 <Guest|62> ```Resolving dependencies...
2022-05-27 19:11:05 +0200 <Guest|62>     (no packages)```
2022-05-27 19:11:33 +0200 <Guest|62> so i did notice that the cabal.project file did not contain these packages
2022-05-27 19:11:51 +0200 <geekosaur> they wouldn't be there unless you were vendoring them
2022-05-27 19:12:01 +0200eraziel(~eraziel@modemcable169.17-58-74.mc.videotron.ca)
2022-05-27 19:12:07 +0200 <geekosaur> normally you'd get them from hackage
2022-05-27 19:12:41 +0200 <Guest|62> ahh ok! i think im too used to npm. This is the first Haskell project i've tried to build. Forgive my ignorance:(
2022-05-27 19:13:04 +0200 <dmj`> Guest|62: can you paste your cabal file
2022-05-27 19:13:12 +0200 <eraziel> is it possible to define nested subcommands with optparse-applicative ?
2022-05-27 19:13:16 +0200 <sclv> note that if you can build you don't really need to install -- you just build the binary and execute it directly from the path as given by `cabal list-bin`
2022-05-27 19:13:20 +0200 <eraziel> kinda like the aws cli is doing: aws eks update-kubeconfig --name clustername
2022-05-27 19:14:05 +0200 <Guest|62> dmj`: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/44ZE1Ayv
2022-05-27 19:14:24 +0200 <dmj`> eraziel: yes
2022-05-27 19:15:01 +0200 <Guest|62> sclv: ahh yeah i tried looking for where the bin was stored... i was seeing symlinks, and i couldnt run it
2022-05-27 19:15:01 +0200 <eraziel> do you have an example somewhere ? I can't find anything, I think I might be searching the wrong terms
2022-05-27 19:15:28 +0200 <dmj`> Guest|62: is that your cabal.project file?
2022-05-27 19:15:45 +0200 <Guest|62> yessir dmj`
2022-05-27 19:15:55 +0200 <sclv> `cabal install` ignores the project file altogether, so it looks like that project, with all those pinned deps, wasn't written to be used with it at all -- just with build
2022-05-27 19:16:20 +0200jgeerds(~jgeerds@55d45f48.access.ecotel.net)
2022-05-27 19:16:29 +0200 <Guest|62> so `cabal lisk-bin` just gives me:
2022-05-27 19:16:29 +0200 <Guest|62> `cabal: One target is required, none provided`
2022-05-27 19:16:57 +0200fantasia(~fi@197.244.205.32) (K-Lined)
2022-05-27 19:17:28 +0200 <dmj`> Guest|62: can you paste your cabal file
2022-05-27 19:17:36 +0200 <dmj`> not the cabal.project one, but like the real one
2022-05-27 19:17:53 +0200 <geekosaur> eraziel, looks to me you just use a `command` like you would a `strOption` or etc., nesting them as needed
2022-05-27 19:18:31 +0200 <Guest|62> dmj`: ok my bad. I think this is the one you are referring?
2022-05-27 19:18:32 +0200 <Guest|62> https://github.com/kadena-io/chainweb-node/blob/master/chainweb.cabal
2022-05-27 19:18:46 +0200 <Guest|62> So im trying to build this `chainweb-node` crypto project called Kadena
2022-05-27 19:20:08 +0200 <dmj`> Guest|62: nix build
2022-05-27 19:20:27 +0200 <maerwald[m]> tapas: maybe can help ^
2022-05-27 19:20:38 +0200arjun(~arjun@user/arjun) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-05-27 19:21:56 +0200 <eraziel> geekosaur: `command`'s signature is `String -> ParserInfo a -> Mod CommandFields a`, I don't think you can nest those
2022-05-27 19:22:03 +0200 <tapas> In order, the following will be built (use -v for more details):
2022-05-27 19:22:03 +0200 <tapas> - chainweb-2.14 (lib:chainweb, exe:chainweb-node, exe:cwtool, test:chainweb-tests, bench:bench) (additional components to build)
2022-05-27 19:22:11 +0200 <tapas> confused as to why `list-bin` just can't handle this
2022-05-27 19:22:44 +0200 <sclv> it doesn't list all the bins -- you just need to pass it the target
2022-05-27 19:23:11 +0200 <sclv> arguably we could change it so it does list all the bins, :-)
2022-05-27 19:23:51 +0200 <tapas> but there's only 1 target
2022-05-27 19:23:54 +0200 <tapas> lmao
2022-05-27 19:24:01 +0200 <tapas> it's one project
2022-05-27 19:24:02 +0200 <tapas> 2 bins
2022-05-27 19:24:14 +0200 <eraziel> ahh nvm I got it, duh
2022-05-27 19:24:18 +0200 <geekosaur> eraziel, that is why you use it with `subparser`
2022-05-27 19:24:53 +0200 <sclv> the target is a specific binary -- there's four here. two executable stanzas plus a bench and a test
2022-05-27 19:25:14 +0200 <sclv> Guest|62: so `cabal list-bin exe:chainweb-node` or the like will probably work
2022-05-27 19:25:33 +0200 <Guest|62> hmmm `cabal: No or multiple targets given`
2022-05-27 19:26:24 +0200 <tapas> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/ebtRAgN2/
2022-05-27 19:26:32 +0200 <tapas> this is so counterintuitive -.-'
2022-05-27 19:29:40 +0200JannisO(~JannisO@89.233.88.60) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-05-27 19:29:57 +0200JannisO(~JannisO@89.233.88.60)
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2022-05-27 19:31:54 +0200JannisO(~JannisO@89.233.88.60)
2022-05-27 19:32:06 +0200hpc(~juzz@ip98-169-35-13.dc.dc.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2022-05-27 19:33:54 +0200hpc(~juzz@ip98-169-35-13.dc.dc.cox.net)
2022-05-27 19:37:59 +0200 <dmj`> Guest|62: the nix scripts are probably more maintained than the cabal build. The reason the cabal build is failing is most likely due to a pinned nixpkgs that is a little older
2022-05-27 19:38:21 +0200 <dmj`> and cabal's resolver is having a hard time reconciling tht
2022-05-27 19:40:53 +0200 <Guest|62> I can give it a go. I've avoided it because when i go to `our wiki` it brings me to the pact project... I sort of assumed I would just be building pact.
2022-05-27 19:44:53 +0200Guest46(~Guest46@mv-213-141-53-146.telecable.es)
2022-05-27 19:45:43 +0200anon15041149(~anon15041@host-80-41-95-245.as13285.net)
2022-05-27 19:50:06 +0200anon15041149(~anon15041@host-80-41-95-245.as13285.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-05-27 19:50:44 +0200 <Guest|62> lol just installing nix is proving to be a pain ;(
2022-05-27 19:51:31 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2022-05-27 19:51:46 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) (Error from remote client)
2022-05-27 19:52:04 +0200 <Guest|62> first wont let me install it as root, i create a user, su newuser, rerun multiuser install script, error with:
2022-05-27 19:52:05 +0200 <Guest|62> `/tmp/nix-binary-tarball-unpack.yOzs0Bxsfs/unpack/nix-2.8.1-aarch64-linux/install-multi-user: line 319: sudo: command not found`
2022-05-27 19:55:26 +0200JannisO(~JannisO@89.233.88.60) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-05-27 19:55:43 +0200JannisO(~JannisO@89.233.88.60)
2022-05-27 19:55:51 +0200 <maerwald> yeah, good luck
2022-05-27 19:56:29 +0200 <dmj`> Guest|62: did you use the instructions?
2022-05-27 19:56:34 +0200 <dmj`> Guest|62: sh <(curl -L https://nixos.org/nix/install) --daemon
2022-05-27 19:57:35 +0200 <Guest|62> yep I walk through that interactive installer
2022-05-27 19:58:01 +0200 <Guest|62> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/hl7c5VGy
2022-05-27 19:58:20 +0200 <Guest|62> Starting to feel like I was destined to be a construction worker or something '=(
2022-05-27 19:58:50 +0200mncheckm(~mncheck@193.224.205.254) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2022-05-27 20:00:11 +0200 <int-e> sudo: command not found <-- yeah, should not blindly assume that sudo is installed
2022-05-27 20:00:25 +0200 <dmj`> Guest|62: what distro are you on
2022-05-27 20:00:41 +0200 <geekosaur> or that it's in /usr/bin
2022-05-27 20:00:57 +0200 <dminuoso> λ ~/ which sudo #=> /run/wrappers/bin/sudo
2022-05-27 20:01:22 +0200 <Guest|62> int-e: docker base image is ubuntu:20.04
2022-05-27 20:01:32 +0200 <dminuoso> Using nix inside a docker container.
2022-05-27 20:01:34 +0200 <dminuoso> Heh.
2022-05-27 20:01:46 +0200 <geekosaur> 20.04 should have it in /usr/bin
2022-05-27 20:01:52 +0200 <maerwald> Guest|62: at least it's honest work
2022-05-27 20:01:52 +0200 <int-e> yeah I'd want nix isolated from where it can do real harm as well
2022-05-27 20:01:54 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net)
2022-05-27 20:02:15 +0200 <int-e> (that may be unfair. nix is an alien beast to me.)
2022-05-27 20:02:16 +0200 <dminuoso> int-e: funny, Im using nix precisely to avoid said harm.
2022-05-27 20:02:37 +0200stonedHash
2022-05-27 20:02:51 +0200 <maerwald> that *is* funny indeed :D
2022-05-27 20:03:09 +0200 <Guest|62> I should have probably mentioned that this stuff is far beyond my level of expertise (if that wasnt obvious enough) im just a lowly node.js engineer.
2022-05-27 20:03:15 +0200 <exarkun> using nix can definitely harm your tolerance for the way imperative, side-effect-y linux distributions work
2022-05-27 20:03:33 +0200 <dminuoso> exarkun: But only once you have crossed a certain threshold.
2022-05-27 20:03:41 +0200 <dminuoso> The point-of-no-return on the blackhole that nix is.
2022-05-27 20:03:45 +0200 <maerwald> Guest|62: I'm a trained brick layer. Nothing wrong with going back to construction if your health permits :p
2022-05-27 20:03:53 +0200 <exarkun> dminuoso: I guess this is known as "dose response".
2022-05-27 20:04:09 +0200 <Guest|62> maerwald: :')
2022-05-27 20:05:22 +0200 <int-e> geekosaur: tbf, it's not assuming anything about sudo's location: https://github.com/NixOS/nix/blob/master/scripts/install-multi-user.sh#L92
2022-05-27 20:06:09 +0200 <dminuoso> exarkun: I think its a similar thing to kubernetes which is probably great technology that addresses a particular set of problems well. But it requires years of building up expertise on something that is almost, but not quite, entirely unlike traditional linux.
2022-05-27 20:06:18 +0200 <maerwald> exarkun: using nix harms my tolerance of ergonomic package managers and configuration languages.
2022-05-27 20:06:42 +0200 <exarkun> dminuoso: it may well be
2022-05-27 20:06:50 +0200 <int-e> But there may not be a sudo at all (as is the case here). It's a frequent guest on CVE (though tbf it seems to be /mostly/ misconfigurations): https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=sudo
2022-05-27 20:06:53 +0200exarkuncontains the k8s rant
2022-05-27 20:06:57 +0200vysn(~vysn@user/vysn) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-05-27 20:07:31 +0200 <dminuoso> Every technology has their zealot defenders. :)
2022-05-27 20:08:13 +0200 <dmj`> Guest|62: are you using a nixos image? If so, you can avoid the installation step
2022-05-27 20:08:37 +0200 <dminuoso> maerwald: Ive come to the point that what I really care about is not nix-the-package-manager, but nixos.
2022-05-27 20:08:45 +0200 <Guest|62> dmj`: maybe that's the answer... Im using an ubuntu:20.04 image
2022-05-27 20:08:51 +0200 <dminuoso> And nixos has quite decent ergonomics for the most part
2022-05-27 20:09:05 +0200 <maerwald> uhm
2022-05-27 20:09:05 +0200 <exarkun> yea if you're going to use nix and docker, you may as well start with a nix-friendly docker image.
2022-05-27 20:09:08 +0200 <dmj`> Guest|62: https://hub.docker.com/r/nixos/nix
2022-05-27 20:09:35 +0200 <int-e> that's the first time I hear about nixos having decent ergonomics
2022-05-27 20:09:56 +0200 <maerwald> I've tried NixOS 4 times over the years. It was always awful. Sure, you can invest enough time in anything, but that's just sunk cost fallacy.
2022-05-27 20:10:05 +0200 <exarkun> it depends on what you mean by "ergonomics".
2022-05-27 20:10:17 +0200 <exarkun> It does some stuff extremely well.
2022-05-27 20:10:22 +0200 <exarkun> It does some stuff extremely poorly.
2022-05-27 20:10:24 +0200 <int-e> I think it's more about "decent".
2022-05-27 20:10:28 +0200 <dminuoso> At work we maintain an infrastructure of several hundred servers and VMs.
2022-05-27 20:10:38 +0200 <maerwald> it solves a difficult niche use case, but provides the worst possible ergonomics in the process
2022-05-27 20:10:39 +0200 <Guest|62> So the ultimate goal here for me, is to build the Kadena node from souce in a docker image, do any necessary configuration, and run the beast within the (same?) container. This is the standard procedure at the company I'm at.
2022-05-27 20:10:47 +0200 <exarkun> maerwald: The worst possible, you say? :)
2022-05-27 20:10:51 +0200 <int-e> I'm not in enough pain with the current situation to even be tempted to try nixos.
2022-05-27 20:10:53 +0200 <dminuoso> Managing all their lifetime well has been easiest with nixos by far.
2022-05-27 20:11:22 +0200 <int-e> Probably not doing enough serious software development.
2022-05-27 20:11:33 +0200 <maerwald> exarkun: yes... I've removed nix managed infrastructure before and replaced it with something simpler. Turns out the only reason it was put in place was because the former devops was a nix fanboy, but the business had zero use for it.
2022-05-27 20:11:48 +0200 <exarkun> maerwald: That seems orthogonal.
2022-05-27 20:11:59 +0200 <exarkun> I was mostly poking fun because I can think of several trivial ways to make nix worse.
2022-05-27 20:12:44 +0200 <exarkun> Anyway, sure, it's bad at many things and not the right tool for all problems. As usual.
2022-05-27 20:12:53 +0200 <exarkun> And it would have been better if it had used Haskell instead of inventing its own language. :)
2022-05-27 20:13:03 +0200 <int-e> And yeah, docker was mentioned... we have ways to isolate software installations for different tasks, why do we need to put them all into the same environment (fs etc)?
2022-05-27 20:13:17 +0200 <dminuoso> With nixos to manage the lifecycle of many servers means we can trivially roll out system updates, roll them back, rebuild machines identical in behavior, nuking a server and rebuilding it always gives us the same configuration state back.
2022-05-27 20:13:29 +0200 <exarkun> int-e: The premise of that question, I think, is that Docker comes with no drawbacks.
2022-05-27 20:13:43 +0200 <exarkun> int-e: But of course this isn't true - so it comes down to deciding which trade-offs make sense in a certain circumstance.
2022-05-27 20:13:47 +0200 <int-e> exarkun: Nah, it has its own drawbacks as well.
2022-05-27 20:13:50 +0200 <maerwald> dminuoso: that's not even the main advantage or use case of nix
2022-05-27 20:14:00 +0200 <int-e> I just don't see what would need to happen for nix to actually win.
2022-05-27 20:14:01 +0200 <dminuoso> maerwald: Like I said. For us it is.
2022-05-27 20:14:16 +0200 <exarkun> int-e: What does "win" mean?
2022-05-27 20:14:16 +0200 <dminuoso> A determinstic way to describe and manage our infrastructure.
2022-05-27 20:14:30 +0200 <maerwald> the main advantage is that you can share configuration across *different environments* and see similar results. If you control the environment anyway... it's rather pointless
2022-05-27 20:14:34 +0200 <int-e> exarkun: having a better balance of benefits vs. drawbacks
2022-05-27 20:14:56 +0200 <int-e> note, familiarity is likely to be a factor there.
2022-05-27 20:15:04 +0200 <int-e> I'm not familiar at all.
2022-05-27 20:15:43 +0200 <int-e> heterogeneous environments... noted
2022-05-27 20:15:46 +0200 <exarkun> I don't think there are a lot of universally "better" balances. We solve a very diverse set of problems with software. The same tool is not going to be right for all of them.
2022-05-27 20:16:08 +0200slack1256(~slack1256@191.125.227.88)
2022-05-27 20:16:46 +0200 <exarkun> maerwald: Did you build a simpler functional Linux management tool, or is the simpler Nix replacement you mentioned above something like "Debian running Docker"?
2022-05-27 20:17:15 +0200 <maerwald> exarkun: what do you mean with "functional Linux management tool"?
2022-05-27 20:17:21 +0200 <dminuoso> maerwald: If you control the environment meaning what exactly? That you have a genie in a bottle that magically addresses all your lifecycle management problems? Can you easily orchestrate a system update across a hundred servers? Roll them back if need be? Rebuild them after a disaster scenario exactly to spec? What about auditors?
2022-05-27 20:17:31 +0200 <exarkun> maerwald: Just trying to imagine what your Nix replacement was
2022-05-27 20:17:53 +0200 <exarkun> maerwald: Do you have a Haskell DSL for configuring a Linux system? That would be neat.
2022-05-27 20:17:57 +0200 <maerwald> terraform + propellor
2022-05-27 20:18:05 +0200 <exarkun> Ah right Propeller, was trying to remember that name
2022-05-27 20:18:14 +0200gurkenglas(~gurkengla@dslb-084-057-085-111.084.057.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
2022-05-27 20:18:15 +0200 <unit73e> It's possible to have a simple package manager that fits all but who's going to spend time with that? I just use arch
2022-05-27 20:18:39 +0200 <maerwald> unit73e: let us know when they figured out how to package GHC correctly
2022-05-27 20:18:45 +0200 <dminuoso> Yeah we've looked very deeply at Puppet, which we can equate with Propellor in terms of what it does and how it does that.
2022-05-27 20:18:55 +0200 <maerwald> dminuoso: nah, puppet is more advanced
2022-05-27 20:18:59 +0200 <maerwald> I wouldn't recommend propellor
2022-05-27 20:19:12 +0200 <unit73e> cabal used to be much worse tbh
2022-05-27 20:19:15 +0200bahamas(~lucian@84.232.141.167)
2022-05-27 20:20:28 +0200 <dminuoso> The way nixos is beneficial for us probably doesnt apply to when you only have a few servers to manage. Unless you already have the expertise, the learning curve is *definitely* not worth it for that task.
2022-05-27 20:20:55 +0200 <dminuoso> We're at 40 servers right now but steadily increasing
2022-05-27 20:21:36 +0200 <dmj`> Nix, or something like it that guarantees reproducible builds based on a merkle tree hash scheme is the solution imo, for dep. mgmt at the very least. Now getting Nix / NixOps / NixOS to act more like kubernetes is the hard part. Nixops doesn't support rolling deploys ootb afaict.
2022-05-27 20:22:20 +0200 <dminuoso> Yeah, I mean when you get to that scale you're pretty much in k8s waters
2022-05-27 20:22:39 +0200 <maerwald> it's easier to hire for k8s devs
2022-05-27 20:23:01 +0200 <maerwald> and I don't want to do either of those ;)
2022-05-27 20:23:21 +0200 <exarkun> it's easier to hire golang devs too
2022-05-27 20:23:23 +0200seriously(~seriously@ool-18bd5811.dyn.optonline.net)
2022-05-27 20:23:25 +0200 <exarkun> let's all use golang
2022-05-27 20:23:26 +0200 <dminuoso> Nixos has the benefit that we still have linux VMs, which means the bunch of more traditional linux admins we have can still log into machines, interact with systemd, and do things.
2022-05-27 20:23:45 +0200frost(~frost@user/frost) (Quit: Client closed)
2022-05-27 20:23:55 +0200 <dminuoso> With k8s your average linux administrator wont be able to apply almost any of their experience
2022-05-27 20:23:58 +0200 <maerwald> exarkun: well... if you're talking from a *business* perspective, golang may indeed be a better choice
2022-05-27 20:24:15 +0200 <exarkun> maerwald: it's true, a lot of businesses go a long way churning out crappy software
2022-05-27 20:24:23 +0200 <dminuoso> Not everybody has the freedom to just fire their team and hire hipster k8s devs *shrugs*
2022-05-27 20:24:25 +0200 <exarkun> and a lot of really nice software dies in the dark with failed businesses
2022-05-27 20:24:36 +0200 <maerwald> but most programmers have a hard time to distinguish between "I like to use this tech" and "this tech is important for the business"
2022-05-27 20:25:09 +0200 <exarkun> but also it's nice not to be miserable all day long, which is what a lot of good programmers would be if using golang, even if it is good for the business
2022-05-27 20:25:28 +0200 <exarkun> and maybe having miserable programmers is actually bad for business sometimes
2022-05-27 20:25:36 +0200 <maerwald> yes, I don't want to do golang, but I might recommend it to someone doing a startup
2022-05-27 20:25:55 +0200danyisill(~danny@2a02:2149:8b7e:c000:514a:5a34:fc40:cdf3)
2022-05-27 20:26:24 +0200 <maerwald> if all they got is 50k and 6 months to impress investors... and you tell them to find a Haskell dev
2022-05-27 20:26:26 +0200 <maerwald> uhm yeah
2022-05-27 20:26:29 +0200 <seriously> hey guys... can someone help explain this to me? let's say im in the GHCi; 1. I declare  x = 20 :: Integer     2. If I check the type of x, it is "Integer" (:type x)     3. declare x 15 = 30    4. If I check the type of x, its now "x:: (Eq a, Num a, Num p) => a -> p"
2022-05-27 20:26:46 +0200 <exarkun> I won't claim any insight into how to advise a shoe-string startup on their path to success
2022-05-27 20:26:58 +0200 <slack1256> seriously: You shadowed a variable.
2022-05-27 20:27:31 +0200 <exarkun> seriously: ie, ghci will let you replace the first x with a new, totally unrelated x
2022-05-27 20:28:05 +0200 <slack1256> In fact the second `x` instance is a function (with a single defined equation).
2022-05-27 20:28:11 +0200 <dmj`> dminuoso: even hipster k8s devs struggle w/ k8s ime
2022-05-27 20:28:28 +0200mokee(~mokee@37.228.215.170)
2022-05-27 20:28:32 +0200 <dmj`> have to go outside and take a smoke break while the cluster is down
2022-05-27 20:29:10 +0200eraziel(~eraziel@modemcable169.17-58-74.mc.videotron.ca) (Quit: Client closed)
2022-05-27 20:29:55 +0200 <maerwald> what's a hipster k8s dev
2022-05-27 20:30:04 +0200 <seriously> slack1256 How is "x 20" a function ? And how could I explain it in words?
2022-05-27 20:30:06 +0200 <int-e> seriously: There's a hidden complication here: x 15 = 30 desugars into something like x a | a == 15 = 30, so that's why in addition to Num a dna Num b (for making 15 and 30) you also get Eq a.
2022-05-27 20:30:37 +0200 <int-e> :t let x (15 :: Integer) = 30 :: Integer in x
2022-05-27 20:30:38 +0200 <lambdabot> Integer -> Integer
2022-05-27 20:31:09 +0200 <int-e> :t let x 15 = 30 :: Integer in x -- (somewhat mysterious) Eq again
2022-05-27 20:31:11 +0200 <lambdabot> (Eq a, Num a) => a -> Integer
2022-05-27 20:31:22 +0200 <seriously> int-e ok that clears it up then!
2022-05-27 20:31:35 +0200 <slack1256> > x 15 = 30
2022-05-27 20:31:37 +0200 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:6: error: parse error on input ‘=’
2022-05-27 20:31:41 +0200 <slack1256> > let x 15 = 30
2022-05-27 20:31:43 +0200 <lambdabot> <no location info>: error: not an expression: ‘let x 15 = 30’
2022-05-27 20:31:53 +0200 <int-e> lambdabot needs an expression
2022-05-27 20:31:53 +0200 <geekosaur> have to use @let
2022-05-27 20:31:55 +0200mvk(~mvk@2607:fea8:5ce3:8500::ba9a) (Quit: Going elsewhere)
2022-05-27 20:31:59 +0200 <int-e> or that...
2022-05-27 20:32:00 +0200 <slack1256> @let x 15 = 30
2022-05-27 20:32:02 +0200 <lambdabot> Defined.
2022-05-27 20:32:06 +0200 <slack1256> > x 15
2022-05-27 20:32:08 +0200 <lambdabot> error:
2022-05-27 20:32:08 +0200 <lambdabot> Ambiguous occurrence ‘x’
2022-05-27 20:32:08 +0200 <lambdabot> It could refer to
2022-05-27 20:32:17 +0200 <slack1256> >.>
2022-05-27 20:32:17 +0200 <geekosaur> also beware of shadowing single character variables, as they belong to simple-reflect normally
2022-05-27 20:32:20 +0200 <int-e> @undef
2022-05-27 20:32:20 +0200 <lambdabot> Undefined.
2022-05-27 20:32:21 +0200coot(~coot@213.134.190.95)
2022-05-27 20:32:22 +0200 <int-e> :t x
2022-05-27 20:32:24 +0200 <lambdabot> Expr
2022-05-27 20:32:33 +0200 <geekosaur> > L.x 15
2022-05-27 20:32:35 +0200 <lambdabot> error: Not in scope: ‘L.x’
2022-05-27 20:32:38 +0200 <int-e> > map f [x, y, z]
2022-05-27 20:32:39 +0200 <geekosaur> oh, undef'd
2022-05-27 20:32:41 +0200 <geekosaur> rip
2022-05-27 20:32:42 +0200 <lambdabot> error:
2022-05-27 20:32:42 +0200 <lambdabot> • Ambiguous type variable ‘b0’ arising from a use of ‘show_M718660257584...
2022-05-27 20:32:42 +0200 <lambdabot> prevents the constraint ‘(Show b0)’ from being solved.
2022-05-27 20:32:46 +0200 <int-e> hah.
2022-05-27 20:32:52 +0200 <int-e> > map f [x, y, z] :: [Expr]
2022-05-27 20:32:54 +0200 <lambdabot> [f x,f y,f z]
2022-05-27 20:32:55 +0200mvk(~mvk@2607:fea8:5ce3:8500::ba9a)
2022-05-27 20:33:00 +0200 <slack1256> @let seriously_func 15 = 30
2022-05-27 20:33:02 +0200 <lambdabot> Defined.
2022-05-27 20:33:07 +0200 <slack1256> > seriously_func 15
2022-05-27 20:33:09 +0200 <lambdabot> 30
2022-05-27 20:33:26 +0200 <slack1256> OK, but what if I pass to `seriously_func` the value 17 ?
2022-05-27 20:33:26 +0200 <int-e> > seriously_func 42
2022-05-27 20:33:28 +0200 <lambdabot> *Exception: /tmp/mueval8-0.hs:152:1-22: Non-exhaustive patterns in function ...
2022-05-27 20:33:32 +0200 <seriously> Ultimately I was trying to understand this line of code (from the wai libraries): app :: Application
2022-05-27 20:33:32 +0200 <seriously> app _request respond = respond $ responseBuilder status200 [] "Hello!"
2022-05-27 20:33:47 +0200 <slack1256> As int-e showed, it is not defined. You are missing equations.
2022-05-27 20:34:25 +0200 <int-e> geekosaur: sorry, yeah L.x would've worked
2022-05-27 20:34:56 +0200 <int-e> But I wanted to show off the predefined x (from simple-reflect)
2022-05-27 20:36:59 +0200JannisO(~JannisO@89.233.88.60) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-05-27 20:37:16 +0200JannisO(~JannisO@89.233.88.60)
2022-05-27 20:37:42 +0200mokee(~mokee@37.228.215.170) (Quit: off)
2022-05-27 20:37:48 +0200slac11991(~slack1256@181.43.228.252)
2022-05-27 20:38:02 +0200mokee(~mokee@37.228.215.170)
2022-05-27 20:39:58 +0200mokee(~mokee@37.228.215.170) (Client Quit)
2022-05-27 20:40:22 +0200mokee(~mokee@37.228.215.170)
2022-05-27 20:40:27 +0200slack1256(~slack1256@191.125.227.88) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2022-05-27 20:43:19 +0200slac11991slack1256
2022-05-27 20:45:46 +0200JannisO(~JannisO@89.233.88.60) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-05-27 20:46:03 +0200JannisO(~JannisO@89.233.88.60)
2022-05-27 20:48:31 +0200justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy)
2022-05-27 20:49:48 +0200anon15041149(~anon15041@host-80-41-95-245.as13285.net)
2022-05-27 20:50:24 +0200Guest4365(~Guest43@197.148.45.199)
2022-05-27 20:51:01 +0200zincy(~zincy@2a00:23c8:970c:4801:5ce3:174f:85c3:8411) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-05-27 20:51:13 +0200 <Guest|62> trying to build chainweb-node in the nix docker image is proving to be another struggle:
2022-05-27 20:51:13 +0200 <Guest|62> `error: Package ‘sbv-8.14’ in /nix/store/fa7d7b3920mzvbk9ad2nv14gp6n4xpvl-source/pkgs/development/haskell-modules/hackage-packages.nix:226984 is not supported on ‘aarch64-linux’, refusing to evaluate.`
2022-05-27 20:52:03 +0200_ht(~quassel@231-169-21-31.ftth.glasoperator.nl) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-05-27 20:52:27 +0200hololeap(~quassel@user/hololeap)
2022-05-27 20:52:34 +0200noteness(~noteness@user/noteness) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-05-27 20:54:16 +0200anon15041149(~anon15041@host-80-41-95-245.as13285.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-05-27 20:54:39 +0200noteness(~noteness@user/noteness)
2022-05-27 20:55:20 +0200 <dmj`> Guest|62: are you on an m1 mac?
2022-05-27 20:56:06 +0200 <Guest|62> yup
2022-05-27 20:56:08 +0200 <dmj`> Guest|62: what does your Dockerfile look like
2022-05-27 20:56:53 +0200 <Guest|62> So I just used `FROM nixos/nix` and ran that so i could sandbox
2022-05-27 20:58:33 +0200JannisO(~JannisO@89.233.88.60) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-05-27 20:58:44 +0200 <Guest|62> but essentially, i just cloned the chainweb-node repo, cd into it, echo'ed these lines:
2022-05-27 20:58:45 +0200 <Guest|62> `substituters = https://nixcache.chainweb.com https://cache.nixos.org/`
2022-05-27 20:58:46 +0200 <Guest|62> into the `/etc/nix/nix.conf` file
2022-05-27 20:58:46 +0200 <Guest|62> then run `nix-build` from the root chainweb-node dir
2022-05-27 20:58:50 +0200JannisO(~JannisO@89.233.88.60)
2022-05-27 20:59:08 +0200 <Guest|62> following the nix build instructions here: https://github.com/kadena-io/pact/wiki/Building-Kadena-Projects#building-with-nix
2022-05-27 21:00:02 +0200jollygood2(~bc8147f2@cerf.good1.com) (Quit: CGI:IRC (Session timeout))
2022-05-27 21:00:19 +0200Guest84(~Guest84@102.89.32.131)
2022-05-27 21:02:05 +0200 <Guest84> Hello
2022-05-27 21:02:16 +0200 <Guest84> I'm new here
2022-05-27 21:02:31 +0200Guest4365(~Guest43@197.148.45.199) (Quit: Client closed)
2022-05-27 21:02:46 +0200 <Hash> change your nickname
2022-05-27 21:02:57 +0200 <Guest84> Oh okay
2022-05-27 21:02:59 +0200 <Hash> Get a permanent one
2022-05-27 21:03:05 +0200 <Hash> register with /nickserv
2022-05-27 21:03:11 +0200 <Hash> read the libera.chat irc website
2022-05-27 21:03:20 +0200 <Hash> good luck and welcome
2022-05-27 21:04:51 +0200 <Guest84> Thank you
2022-05-27 21:06:56 +0200JannisO(~JannisO@89.233.88.60) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-05-27 21:07:02 +0200Demmy(~Demmy@102.89.32.131)
2022-05-27 21:07:13 +0200JannisO(~JannisO@89.233.88.60)
2022-05-27 21:07:56 +0200 <Demmy> How do I register
2022-05-27 21:08:13 +0200 <geekosaur> /msg nickserv help register
2022-05-27 21:08:53 +0200zincy(~zincy@2a00:23c8:970c:4801:5ce3:174f:85c3:8411)
2022-05-27 21:09:00 +0200 <Demmy> soory where exactly
2022-05-27 21:09:16 +0200 <Demmy> I just joined with no password
2022-05-27 21:09:39 +0200 <geekosaur> if you type that into your client, nickserv will tell you how to register your nickname and associate a password with it
2022-05-27 21:09:55 +0200 <geekosaur> (/msg sends a private message)
2022-05-27 21:12:10 +0200jao(~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-05-27 21:12:16 +0200Guest84(~Guest84@102.89.32.131) (Quit: Client closed)
2022-05-27 21:16:22 +0200CiaoSen(~Jura@p200300c95731a0002a3a4dfffe84dbd5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-05-27 21:19:46 +0200JannisO(~JannisO@89.233.88.60) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-05-27 21:20:03 +0200JannisO(~JannisO@89.233.88.60)
2022-05-27 21:21:47 +0200zeenk(~zeenk@2a02:2f04:a104:ef00:10:581:f80f:b980) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2022-05-27 21:23:36 +0200justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy) (Quit: WeeChat 3.4)
2022-05-27 21:25:35 +0200 <[exa]> Hash: I remember all guests by number tho
2022-05-27 21:26:12 +0200 <Hash> That can be useful
2022-05-27 21:28:16 +0200 <[exa]> Demmy: btw registering on irc is only required if you really care that others don't accidentally/malevolently use your nickname. Gives a tiny bit of authentication but not required at all.
2022-05-27 21:28:33 +0200jgeerds(~jgeerds@55d45f48.access.ecotel.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2022-05-27 21:29:14 +0200 <geekosaur> I'd also say it's not necessary if all you're planning to do is ask a couple of questions and move on
2022-05-27 21:30:26 +0200 <[exa]> anyway -- does anyone have any experience with Hasura? I'm reading that it can do remote joins (aka graph federation), but can't find any benchmarks / performance guesses etc
2022-05-27 21:30:55 +0200 <monochrom> Please don't just ask a couple of questions and move on. Please get addicted like the rest of us. >:)
2022-05-27 21:31:06 +0200 <geekosaur> also you might prefer element (matrix) to IRC especially if you're using webchat
2022-05-27 21:31:16 +0200 <geekosaur> it provides all the modern bells and whistles
2022-05-27 21:32:04 +0200 <geekosaur> (I use element on my phone, but hexchat on my desktop because I'm an old coot :)
2022-05-27 21:32:12 +0200 <[exa]> [90yo unix guy voice:] today irc clients have whistles?
2022-05-27 21:33:38 +0200 <[exa]> re Hasura -- the main question is basically how much data I could throw to it (and try to connect through the federated queries) and expect it not to explode or so
2022-05-27 21:34:04 +0200mokee(~mokee@37.228.215.170) (Quit: off)
2022-05-27 21:34:56 +0200hololeap(~quassel@user/hololeap) (Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2022-05-27 21:35:56 +0200jmdaemon(~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon)
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2022-05-27 21:45:29 +0200dschrempf(~dominik@070-207.dynamic.dsl.fonira.net)
2022-05-27 21:45:58 +0200dschrempf(~dominik@070-207.dynamic.dsl.fonira.net) (Client Quit)
2022-05-27 21:46:51 +0200dcleonarski(~user@2804:d51:479c:4300:c312:71c1:ee9b:86ea)
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2022-05-27 21:57:59 +0200 <monochrom> w00t 9.2.3
2022-05-27 22:07:26 +0200JannisO(~JannisO@89.233.88.60) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2022-05-27 22:08:07 +0200obabo(~obabo@563BF107.catv.pool.telekom.hu)
2022-05-27 22:09:22 +0200 <unit73e> element interface is just super ugly. the protocol is fine but can't make a decent interface?
2022-05-27 22:09:29 +0200 <unit73e> ugly hexchat looks better to me
2022-05-27 22:09:39 +0200 <unit73e> make I should make my own
2022-05-27 22:09:49 +0200 <geekosaur> glirc?
2022-05-27 22:11:41 +0200 <unit73e> what's glirc? granted I haven't search matrix clients that much
2022-05-27 22:11:55 +0200 <geekosaur> IRC client written in Haskell
2022-05-27 22:12:11 +0200 <geekosaur> @hackage glirc
2022-05-27 22:12:11 +0200 <lambdabot> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/glirc
2022-05-27 22:12:28 +0200 <unit73e> one of those console ones. I'll give it try, thanks.
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2022-05-27 22:39:44 +0200pretty_dumm_guy(trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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2022-05-27 23:56:41 +0200zwro[m](~zwromatri@2001:470:69fc:105::1d4)
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2022-05-27 23:59:49 +0200littlebobeep(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo)