IRCBrowse

2022/05/23

2022-05-23 00:01:13 +0200 <sm> some examples here maybe: https://github.com/simonmichael/hledger/blob/master/hledger/Hledger/Cli/CliOptions.hs#L108
2022-05-23 00:03:59 +0200xsarnik(xsarnik@lounge.fi.muni.cz)
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2022-05-23 01:00:48 +0200 <hololeap> what are the chances of Apply ever making its way into base as a superclass of Applicative?
2022-05-23 01:01:26 +0200 <geekosaur> I think edwardk has said some things about it
2022-05-23 01:01:39 +0200MajorBiscuit(~MajorBisc@80.146.187.107) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-05-23 01:03:21 +0200 <geekosaur> I think Apply by itself might work, but iirc breaking Applicative down into Apply and Pointed won't because there's a difference between `(Apply f, Pointed f)` => and `Applicative f =>`
2022-05-23 01:03:41 +0200 <geekosaur> sounded like a shortcoming of typeclasses to me
2022-05-23 01:03:51 +0200MajorBiscuit(~MajorBisc@80.146.187.107)
2022-05-23 01:03:58 +0200 <geekosaur> or of System Fc's approach to them maybe
2022-05-23 01:04:57 +0200 <geekosaur> oh, right, I remember. there may be many ways to be one, only one of which is valid for the other
2022-05-23 01:05:19 +0200 <geekosaur> (this was in particular about Pointed, but may also apply to Apply, pun not intended)
2022-05-23 01:06:20 +0200 <geekosaur> we have a law requiring Applicative and Monad instances to match, but that becomes more problematic the lower in the hierarchy you go because alternative instances are more likely to be useful
2022-05-23 01:06:39 +0200 <jackdk> Yeah but Apply on its own is really handy because it gives you instances for things like maps where you can't have `pure`
2022-05-23 01:09:27 +0200 <zebrag> System F strongly normalizing, so no fixed-point, right. But you must nevertheless be able to "iterate" over a recursive structure, like a list or an int? Is that "catamorphism"? How do you implement catamorphism in Haskell w/o general recursion? (I'm sure the question must have been answered many times, unless the answer is you can't)
2022-05-23 01:10:04 +0200MajorBiscuit(~MajorBisc@80.146.187.107) (Quit: WeeChat 3.4)
2022-05-23 01:10:12 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@24.105.81.50)
2022-05-23 01:10:16 +0200causal(~user@50.35.83.177)
2022-05-23 01:11:58 +0200 <geekosaur> zebrag, I don't understand that question unless you are restricting this to fixpoint implementations of recursion
2022-05-23 01:12:28 +0200 <jackdk> I think he means languages like Dhall, where you don't have general recursion but can fold over lists
2022-05-23 01:12:48 +0200 <geekosaur> but then I don't see what System F has to do with it
2022-05-23 01:12:56 +0200 <geekosaur> Dhall doesn't implement System F
2022-05-23 01:13:01 +0200 <zebrag> I think system F doesn't have general recursion
2022-05-23 01:13:15 +0200 <geekosaur> recursive *types*, no
2022-05-23 01:13:32 +0200 <geekosaur> *values* are a different question
2022-05-23 01:13:43 +0200 <monochrom> See Wadler's "recursive type for free!" https://homepages.inf.ed.ac.uk/wadler/topics/parametricity.html#free
2022-05-23 01:14:13 +0200 <monochrom> The gist though is that church encoding is already the catamorphism.
2022-05-23 01:14:15 +0200 <zebrag> but I think system F can't have a fixpoint operator at all
2022-05-23 01:14:42 +0200gurkenglas(~gurkengla@dslb-084-057-085-111.084.057.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2022-05-23 01:14:43 +0200 <zebrag> yes, church encoding is the catamorphism
2022-05-23 01:14:48 +0200 <zebrag> okay got it
2022-05-23 01:14:51 +0200 <geekosaur> not directly. we go through a newtype
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2022-05-23 01:23:01 +0200[_][itchyjunk]
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2022-05-23 03:04:26 +0200 <hololeap> since Monoid was split into Semigroup/Monoid, I don't see why the same shouldn't be done for Apply/Applicative
2022-05-23 03:06:06 +0200 <hololeap> personally, I don't find Pointed to be that important or useful
2022-05-23 03:07:02 +0200vicfred(~vicfred@user/vicfred) (Quit: Leaving)
2022-05-23 03:07:07 +0200 <hololeap> I also am curious if an ApplyDo extension would be possible
2022-05-23 03:10:40 +0200 <hololeap> brb
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2022-05-23 03:13:08 +0200frost(~frost@user/frost)
2022-05-23 03:13:31 +0200 <jackdk> `Pointed` doesn't seem that useful, since I'm not aware of any good laws for it. You sometimes see `Applicative` play that role, e.g. `(==>)` in https://hackage.haskell.org/package/dependent-sum
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2022-05-23 03:19:11 +0200 <Bulby[m]> can I get a generic instance from a GADT without pain
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2022-05-23 04:27:39 +0200AlexNoo_(~AlexNoo@94.233.241.107)
2022-05-23 04:28:26 +0200 <energizer> in some languages you can do things like configuration settings for computations in a context. like in python you can probably set the rounding mode with a context manager `with`
2022-05-23 04:28:42 +0200 <energizer> what's the haskelly version of that?
2022-05-23 04:30:17 +0200AlexZenon(~alzenon@178.34.161.170) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2022-05-23 04:31:27 +0200AlexNoo(~AlexNoo@178.34.161.170) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-05-23 04:33:28 +0200 <jackdk> energizer: Passing arguments to functions. When doing this by hand becomes too tiresome, automating some of it by using a type like `newtype Reader r a = Reader (r -> a)` and giving it `Functor`/`Applicative`/`Monad` instances that thread the `r` for us. (`runReader :: Reader r a -> r -> a` is how you pass in the `r` for the whole computation.
2022-05-23 04:33:56 +0200AlexZenon(~alzenon@94.233.241.107)
2022-05-23 04:34:30 +0200 <jackdk> The other use of `with` I remember from my Python days is things like `with open(..) as f:`, and we tend to use higher-order functions for that: `withFoo :: some -> args -> (foo -> x) -> x` or whatever
2022-05-23 04:34:49 +0200Alex_test(~al_test@94.233.241.107)
2022-05-23 04:36:36 +0200 <energizer> ok
2022-05-23 04:41:42 +0200 <jackdk> > :t withFile -- energizer : concrete example --v
2022-05-23 04:41:44 +0200 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:1: error: parse error on input ‘:’
2022-05-23 04:41:56 +0200 <jackdk> ah, lambdabot doesn't do :t
2022-05-23 04:42:15 +0200 <jackdk> anyway, energizer: `withFile :: FilePath -> IOMode -> (Handle -> IO r) -> IO r` is a concrete example
2022-05-23 04:43:33 +0200terrorjack(~terrorjac@2a01:4f8:1c1e:509a::1) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2022-05-23 04:44:49 +0200terrorjack(~terrorjac@2a01:4f8:1c1e:509a::1)
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2022-05-23 04:50:45 +0200zebrag(~chris@user/zebrag) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2022-05-23 04:53:04 +0200hololeap(~hololeap@user/hololeap) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-05-23 04:53:19 +0200 <EvanR> specifically the rounding mode might be tough
2022-05-23 04:53:48 +0200 <EvanR> is that per-OS-thread or
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2022-05-23 04:56:34 +0200 <energizer> it's a "context variable" in python, which is a thread or more generally "task" (in async land)
2022-05-23 04:57:55 +0200 <energizer> i'm guessing python inherits this from some 1980s fortran interpretation of ieee 754
2022-05-23 04:58:35 +0200finn_elija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643)
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2022-05-23 04:58:41 +0200hololeap(~hololeap@user/hololeap)
2022-05-23 04:59:20 +0200 <energizer> The context is defined by the following parameters: precisionhttp://speleotrove.com/decimal/damodel.html rounding flags and trap-enablers
2022-05-23 04:59:42 +0200 <energizer> oops. http://speleotrove.com/decimal/damodel.html The context is defined by the following parameters: precision, rounding, flags, and trap-enablers
2022-05-23 04:59:56 +0200 <dolio> Doing things that way isn't going to be very nicely behaved.
2022-05-23 05:00:18 +0200 <dolio> They're stateful flags that affect results of supposedly pure functions.
2022-05-23 05:02:13 +0200 <dolio> Probably fine if you only set them once, but if you're switching them around frequently, then that could lead to problems.
2022-05-23 05:02:55 +0200 <energizer> roundTo' takes the rounding mode as an argument
2022-05-23 05:09:02 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2022-05-23 05:14:31 +0200 <Axman6> quick uniz question, is there an easy way to find a file which contains two strings anywhere within them?
2022-05-23 05:15:30 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-05-23 05:16:07 +0200 <Axman6> unix even
2022-05-23 05:16:20 +0200 <jackdk> grep -l for each pattern, sort and combine file lists with comm?
2022-05-23 05:16:31 +0200 <jackdk> dunno about unizzzzzz, only GNU/Linux
2022-05-23 05:19:09 +0200 <dragestil> why is the dominant license of haskell packages bsd3?
2022-05-23 05:19:31 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
2022-05-23 05:19:58 +0200 <dragestil> when i tried some older versions of `cabal init` the default choice was also bsd3, why?
2022-05-23 05:20:43 +0200justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy)
2022-05-23 05:22:44 +0200 <sclv> bsd3 is the standard "pretty nonrestrictive license that indemnifies the producer of the library"
2022-05-23 05:23:15 +0200 <sclv> its a very common choice for when people want to release open source software that doesn't make commercial use and modification difficult.
2022-05-23 05:23:42 +0200dcleonarski(~user@2804:d51:479c:4300:c312:71c1:ee9b:86ea) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2022-05-23 05:24:04 +0200 <dragestil> i see
2022-05-23 05:24:10 +0200 <sclv> and its "more standard" than similar licenses than mit because largely of historical accident, but also arguably because of ghc's roots in academia
2022-05-23 05:24:23 +0200 <sclv> s/than mit/like mit/
2022-05-23 05:25:46 +0200 <dragestil> well i'm glad newer cabal-install does not default to it but lets people put their own in .cabal file
2022-05-23 05:25:47 +0200 <sclv> in my experience there's almost always no particularly good reason that anyone would want to pick anything except either a gpl-family license (with strong free software/copyleft protection) or bsd.
2022-05-23 05:26:31 +0200 <sclv> certain versions of cabal-install only "defaulted" because cabal init was made noninteractive by default, which turned out to be a very bad UI choice and was reverted
2022-05-23 05:26:34 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-05-23 05:26:58 +0200 <sclv> the people who made that choice insisted it was "easier" and it was impossible to convince them that most users wanted to consciously pick at least a few things carefully
2022-05-23 05:27:04 +0200stonedHash
2022-05-23 05:27:14 +0200 <sclv> so a cabal version was released that had noninteractive init
2022-05-23 05:27:17 +0200 <dragestil> oh I thought only interactive cabal init defaults to bsd
2022-05-23 05:27:26 +0200 <sclv> and enough people yelled that it was changed
2022-05-23 05:28:08 +0200kitty1(~kitty@096-039-147-043.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2022-05-23 05:28:36 +0200 <sclv> oh fair enough. noninteractive just leaves it blank
2022-05-23 05:29:00 +0200 <sclv> and now it does have NONE as the "recommeneded" option instead of bsd.
2022-05-23 05:29:11 +0200 <sclv> i suppose i mixed up to UI issues
2022-05-23 05:29:15 +0200 <sclv> two UI issues
2022-05-23 05:29:19 +0200 <dragestil> ok
2022-05-23 05:29:30 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex)
2022-05-23 05:29:45 +0200 <sclv> i don't remember a discussion over having a preferred license choice in cabal, maybe there's one somewhere in the tickets..
2022-05-23 05:30:20 +0200 <jackdk> sclv: I see a bit of dual-licensed BSD-3-Clause and Apache-2.0 so people can have the patent protection if they want
2022-05-23 05:30:44 +0200 <dragestil> would be interesting if there were such discussions
2022-05-23 05:33:33 +0200 <jackdk> yes, especially with the new concerns about your creative output getting slurped up into some ML algo's training set
2022-05-23 05:33:53 +0200 <hololeap> I always default to bsd-2, but that's mostly because I really don't understand all the legal stuff, and bsd-2 was presented as the most free and unrestricted
2022-05-23 05:34:04 +0200 <sclv> oleg made the change, but looks like it was just a merge, not a pr (we don't do merges without prs anymore) so not much discussion https://github.com/haskell/cabal/commit/2fa83023606e89f933bfe0d8779ea805f44b08eb
2022-05-23 05:34:53 +0200 <sclv> i think it was part of a general cleanup when we moved to use the official SPDX license format and list, while the old behavior was done sort of unthinkingly at the dawn of cabal
2022-05-23 05:35:16 +0200 <dragestil> jackdk: i thought ms wouldn't care about the license of the training set if you are talking about copilot
2022-05-23 05:35:36 +0200 <dragestil> I always default to agpl3+ because it offers best protection for the community
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2022-05-23 08:10:57 +0200 <markasoftware> Say I'm memoizing a function using a Map. Certain arguments to the function are illegal and will cause it to `error`, but such illegal arguments won't be provided during normal operation.
2022-05-23 08:12:32 +0200 <markasoftware> actually let's say not a Map, just a list, using say `memoizeResults = map (myFn) [1..]`, then access results by doing `memoizeResults !! n`
2022-05-23 08:12:57 +0200 <markasoftware> am I guaranteed that Haskell won't "optimize" my code and try to randomly evaluate certain elements of the list?
2022-05-23 08:13:14 +0200 <markasoftware> ie, is laziness guaranteed
2022-05-23 08:14:20 +0200 <markasoftware> but I can imagine that for example if my code reads a few contiguous elements, Haskell might think it can speed things up by preloading a few more elements, but that might read an element which causes an `error`
2022-05-23 08:16:51 +0200 <opqdonut> yeah, you can rely on that
2022-05-23 08:17:24 +0200 <opqdonut> (even if Haskell would do eager evaluation beforehand, it would not propagate the error until you try to "evaluate" the value, to ensure lazy _semantics_)
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2022-05-23 08:45:42 +0200acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d0c7068b30946f0a093f217873.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2022-05-23 08:50:07 +0200 <EvanR> markasoftware, haskell can only "evaluate ahead of time on your behalf" if it can determine it won't change non-strict semantics. I.e. crashing or freezing on something you don't need to evaluate would be illegal
2022-05-23 08:51:09 +0200jgeerds(~jgeerds@d53604b0.access.ecotel.net)
2022-05-23 08:51:16 +0200 <EvanR> what described does happen in clojure... you just want to take the first element of a stream, but it evaluates like 16 elements anyway "for speed"
2022-05-23 08:51:37 +0200 <EvanR> which could cause an unexpected exception
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2022-05-23 10:05:46 +0200Inst(~Inst@2601:6c4:4080:3f80:8111:3b07:3cb:440e)
2022-05-23 10:06:22 +0200 <tomsmeding> sm: https://github.com/tomsmeding/ircbrowse/commit/47653df8493fd0a49a42bc775dda6d5dc92b4be1
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2022-05-23 10:29:21 +0200 <dminuoso_> Can you depend on multiple specific components of another package?
2022-05-23 10:29:58 +0200 <merijn> Yes, if you don't plan to rely on hackage anytime soon :p
2022-05-23 10:30:14 +0200 <dminuoso_> Gah, I see.
2022-05-23 10:31:23 +0200romesrf(~romes@2001:4c80:50:16:1c22:2d7f:5a44:106)
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2022-05-23 10:35:31 +0200 <merijn> hackage doesn't support exposing more than one library externally atm
2022-05-23 10:35:51 +0200 <merijn> afaik cabal does support depending on foo:lib:internal foo:lib:other
2022-05-23 10:35:59 +0200 <merijn> (exact syntax I'm unsure about)
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2022-05-23 10:40:13 +0200mattil(~mattil@helsinki.portalify.com)
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2022-05-23 10:43:21 +0200akegalj(~akegalj@93-136-120-160.adsl.net.t-com.hr)
2022-05-23 10:46:09 +0200 <maerwald> no one is sure about cabal syntax
2022-05-23 10:47:43 +0200 <merijn> maerwald: I'm sure having "foo:lib:internal" be a string in YAML or toml would solve this issue and no one would have to know the syntax... >.>
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2022-05-23 11:08:44 +0200 <maerwald> merijn: nah, better come up with a custom underdocumented format for which there exists only one parser implementation :p
2022-05-23 11:09:22 +0200frost(~frost@user/frost)
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2022-05-23 11:16:58 +0200 <dminuoso_> Even the cabal-install component parser code is somewhat spaghetti and not well documented.
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2022-05-23 13:10:14 +0200 <anon15041149> I'm having some trouble getting stack to work, this is the error I am getting https://paste.tomsmeding.com/v70TeJQT I checked under stack.yaml and under packages it has packages: - /Users/sr/.cabal
2022-05-23 13:10:22 +0200albertoCCz(~albertoCC@nat-cvi-a-5070.ugr.es)
2022-05-23 13:10:58 +0200 <anon15041149> previously it was packages: - /Users/sr/ I'm not sure if it makes difference, I tried running it both times
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2022-05-23 13:17:02 +0200merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-011.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl)
2022-05-23 13:17:39 +0200 <jackdk> I think `packages: ` is the list of packages in your project, not some system repository. I wouldn't expect to see it pointed at `$HOME` or `$HOME/.cabal`, but rather something more like `.`
2022-05-23 13:19:17 +0200benin(~benin@183.82.30.29)
2022-05-23 13:20:28 +0200Infinite(~Infinite@49.39.120.50)
2022-05-23 13:21:09 +0200 <anon15041149> I changed it to . but I get this https://paste.tomsmeding.com/f55JSWep
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2022-05-23 13:56:08 +0200 <Philonous> A dependency (singletons) in one of my packages was split into multiple packages, is there a way to have a single .cabal file that handles both situations? e.g. »singletons < 3.0 || (singletons > 3.0 + singletons-th + singletons-base)« ?
2022-05-23 13:56:33 +0200quitebk(~quietbk@79-77-94-188.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
2022-05-23 13:56:35 +0200 <geekosaur> use a flag
2022-05-23 13:56:36 +0200 <Philonous> (singletons >= 3.0, I meant)
2022-05-23 13:56:53 +0200 <merijn> Philonous: Use an automatic flag
2022-05-23 13:57:01 +0200 <merijn> I think I even have a simple-ish example
2022-05-23 13:57:16 +0200 <geekosaur> I was looking for one from the split-base days
2022-05-23 13:57:32 +0200 <merijn> Philonous: https://github.com/merijn/Belewitte/blob/master/plotting/plotting.cabal
2022-05-23 13:57:42 +0200 <Philonous> Oh, that would be helpful. I know how to use flags, but ideally the flag would automatically bet set depending on the stackage LTS
2022-05-23 13:57:45 +0200 <Philonous> Thanks
2022-05-23 13:57:52 +0200 <merijn> Philonous: Basically, cabal will automatically toggle flags if it is unable to find a build plan
2022-05-23 13:58:27 +0200 <Philonous> Oh? That's great!
2022-05-23 13:58:28 +0200 <merijn> Philonous: stackage goes out of it's way to encourage people to use flags other than intended, breaking their initial use case (this), so, uh...SOL
2022-05-23 13:58:48 +0200 <dminuoso_> merijn: what exact part of this is the "automatic flag" part?
2022-05-23 13:59:34 +0200 <merijn> dminuoso_: "manual: False" (which should be the default, but some old cabal versions had a bug where flags weren't automatic by default as they're supposed to)
2022-05-23 14:00:13 +0200 <dminuoso_> Ah cool, good to know.
2022-05-23 14:00:24 +0200 <dminuoso_> How will this fail if cairo is unavailable?
2022-05-23 14:00:37 +0200 <dminuoso_> With illegible constraint solver messages as usual?
2022-05-23 14:00:48 +0200 <quitebk> @help
2022-05-23 14:00:48 +0200 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
2022-05-23 14:01:01 +0200 <quitebk> @help list
2022-05-23 14:01:02 +0200 <lambdabot> list [module|command]. Show commands for [module] or the module providing [command].
2022-05-23 14:01:03 +0200 <dminuoso_> Hah, dont fall for this trap.
2022-05-23 14:01:09 +0200 <dminuoso_> Nobody knows how to use lambdabot.
2022-05-23 14:01:17 +0200 <merijn> dminuoso_: I use "cabal build all", which will silently skip unbuildable components
2022-05-23 14:01:25 +0200 <dminuoso_> We all just know specific invocations of lambdabot commands becausee someone else has used them before.
2022-05-23 14:01:34 +0200 <dminuoso_> It's utterly non-self documenting.
2022-05-23 14:01:43 +0200 <quitebk> Thanks for the heads up haha
2022-05-23 14:01:47 +0200 <merijn> dminuoso_: It's basically a trick to ensure things don't fail when I build on cluster with no cairo
2022-05-23 14:02:13 +0200 <maerwald[m]> dminuoso_ cabal or lamdabot? 😁
2022-05-23 14:02:18 +0200 <dminuoso_> maerwald[m]: hahah
2022-05-23 14:02:29 +0200 <dminuoso_> I was just about to write `all` is a valid target? uh
2022-05-23 14:02:48 +0200 <maerwald[m]> dminuoso_: unless your package is called 'all'
2022-05-23 14:02:50 +0200 <dminuoso_> quitebk: https://wiki.haskell.org/Lambdabot has a few examples that may be helpful
2022-05-23 14:02:52 +0200 <maerwald[m]> Good luck
2022-05-23 14:03:15 +0200 <dminuoso_> maerwald[m]: haha, I totally tripped a coworker since one of my transitive components was named `test`
2022-05-23 14:03:21 +0200 <dminuoso_> and they tried `cabal run test` constantly
2022-05-23 14:03:35 +0200 <merijn> dminuoso_: If you have a cabal.project with multiple packages, "all" builds all of them
2022-05-23 14:03:54 +0200 <maerwald[m]> This is what happens with programs that constantly follow user feature requests
2022-05-23 14:03:56 +0200 <dminuoso_> Let me dig into the source code again. Im not sure how this could work
2022-05-23 14:04:22 +0200 <dminuoso_> I know cabal-install has the notion of an implicit project, but multiple projects I wasnt aware of
2022-05-23 14:04:39 +0200 <merijn> dminuoso_: multiple *packages* in a single project
2022-05-23 14:04:45 +0200 <dminuoso_> Yeah I understand
2022-05-23 14:05:07 +0200 <merijn> dminuoso_: There's no implicit project in my example, though
2022-05-23 14:05:13 +0200 <maerwald[m]> Multiple projects would be fun... now you need a merge strategy for cabal.project files
2022-05-23 14:05:37 +0200titibandit(~thibaut@2a00:8a60:c000:1:8a13:bf74:b2:8d47) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-05-23 14:06:45 +0200 <dminuoso_> merijn: Right we have this often as well in git repos with a bunch of packages in nested directories like servant
2022-05-23 14:08:45 +0200 <maerwald[m]> There's funny bugs with subdir in cabal.project
2022-05-23 14:08:57 +0200 <merijn> maerwald[m]: What's that?
2022-05-23 14:09:44 +0200 <dminuoso_> So far its worked out just fine, aside from the occasional mistake of adding the package both into cabal.project and cabal.project.local
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2022-05-23 14:10:01 +0200 <dminuoso_> Which I never could make sense of until I understood that packages are added together. Kept thinking that .local overrode it
2022-05-23 14:10:34 +0200 <maerwald[m]> merijn: https://github.com/haskell/cabal/issues/7131
2022-05-23 14:11:18 +0200 <maerwald[m]> That's what you get from undocumented file formats
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2022-05-23 14:27:51 +0200 <geekosaur> I thought that was documented, just unclear. ("Monoidal")
2022-05-23 14:28:18 +0200 <geekosaur> I even mentioned that obliquely last night
2022-05-23 14:28:32 +0200 <geekosaur> and you provided the last piece of the puzzle in question
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2022-05-23 15:14:44 +0200 <Philonous> Oh, so aeson decided to break its API, I guess the next week I'll be writing a lot of CPP macros...
2022-05-23 15:15:45 +0200 <dminuoso_> Philonous: What do you mean by break its api?
2022-05-23 15:15:51 +0200 <Philonous> Just pinning all package versions and never updating anything every again suddenly seems very attractive.
2022-05-23 15:15:53 +0200 <geekosaur> aeson 2, I presume
2022-05-23 15:16:34 +0200 <Philonous> Yes
2022-05-23 15:16:42 +0200 <dminuoso_> I wish I could avoid aeson altogether. :(
2022-05-23 15:17:07 +0200 <Philonous> They changed away from HashMaps to an abstract representation and now use some abstract "Key" type instead of Text
2022-05-23 15:17:11 +0200 <dminuoso_> It would be nice if we could have a builtin JSON implementation, one that doesnt artificially introduce 40 transitive dependencies.
2022-05-23 15:17:27 +0200 <dminuoso_> While there exist such solutions on Hackage, the reality is aeson pops up quite frequently
2022-05-23 15:18:19 +0200gastus(~gastus@mawercer.de)
2022-05-23 15:18:21 +0200 <merijn> dminuoso_: cabal-install has a minimal one it uses
2022-05-23 15:19:35 +0200 <dminuoso_> merijn: Sure, but then you want to use hasql/postgresql-simple, and you suddenly have aeson whether you want it or not.
2022-05-23 15:19:44 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo)
2022-05-23 15:20:32 +0200 <dminuoso_> In the past few weeks Ive become mindful of dependency tree baggage. It feels like dependency trees have becoming larger and larger on hackage over the past few years
2022-05-23 15:20:44 +0200 <maerwald> you're using the wrong language then
2022-05-23 15:20:55 +0200 <dminuoso_> Which other language doesnt suffer from this problem?
2022-05-23 15:20:57 +0200 <dminuoso_> C?
2022-05-23 15:21:37 +0200 <geekosaur> you might actually get your wish re json, since one of the future directions of ghc is to use json for communication between it and other programs (such as cabal, but also HLS and the like)
2022-05-23 15:21:56 +0200 <geekosaur> which may mean a minimalish JSON impl shipped along with it in the future
2022-05-23 15:22:00 +0200 <maerwald> Go has json in its stdlib
2022-05-23 15:22:20 +0200 <dminuoso_> maerwald: the dependency blowup is quite prevalent in go as well.
2022-05-23 15:22:31 +0200 <dminuoso_> But yeah, go brings a lot of basic goodies in its stdlib, which helps
2022-05-23 15:22:53 +0200 <dminuoso_> geekosaur: that would be nice I guess.
2022-05-23 15:22:58 +0200 <maerwald> there's a sufficient ecosystem of *real* libraries in Go
2022-05-23 15:22:59 +0200 <geekosaur> C has the same blowup, it's just less obvious because so many distros ship gnome which is kinda maximum dep blowup
2022-05-23 15:23:14 +0200 <geekosaur> so they're all already installed
2022-05-23 15:24:01 +0200 <dminuoso_> C has much less fragmentation, though. I mean in Haskell packages its not uncommon to have 5 different parsing libraries, 4 IP library implementations, 7 different container types, all of different magical flavors, and then half the kmettiverse..
2022-05-23 15:24:15 +0200 <gastus> https://dpaste.com/FM5NNG6TH Line 115 is seen as tt1 line 43 should have introduced it ScopedTypeVariables is used.
2022-05-23 15:25:01 +0200 <dminuoso_> gastus: can you share the full diagnostic, perhaps?
2022-05-23 15:25:02 +0200 <maerwald> dminuoso_: well, PVP/semver have a negative effect on ecosystems. People experiment more because you can't break anyone's code after all, right?
2022-05-23 15:26:01 +0200 <gastus> https://dpaste.com/3F9DC7YJC
2022-05-23 15:26:49 +0200 <[exa]> dminuoso_: C fragmentation is just much less visible because there's no cackage. Did you try googling for json libraries in C? :D
2022-05-23 15:27:12 +0200 <dminuoso_> [exa]: In C its not uncommon for libraries to just bring a handcrafted JSON implementation.
2022-05-23 15:27:19 +0200 <maerwald> [exa]: is there one that doesn't have memory bugs? :D
2022-05-23 15:27:52 +0200 <[exa]> maerwald: challenging question!
2022-05-23 15:28:03 +0200 <dminuoso_> gastus: Add type signatures to statechanged, run, prog, sumV. If that doesnt help nail it down, split stateChanged into more bindings.
2022-05-23 15:28:42 +0200 <merijn> maerwald[m]: I'm gonna go ahead and assume "no" :p
2022-05-23 15:28:43 +0200 <dminuoso_> Or at least type annotate the let-bindings inside stateChanged
2022-05-23 15:28:44 +0200 <[exa]> but I meant pretty much everything. There's more allocators, lex generators, widget toolkits, UI libraries, image libraries, jpeglib clones, container libraries ... than I can count
2022-05-23 15:29:50 +0200 <gastus> dminuoso_: I can try, but the problem is that the tt bottom is not the tt in forall which ScopedTypeVariables should solve AFAIK.
2022-05-23 15:30:05 +0200 <dminuoso_> gastus: Ive looked at the error message and your code, and I cant make heads or tails of it.
2022-05-23 15:30:23 +0200 <dminuoso_> The fact you're getting the diagnostics means one or more of your assumptions are wrong.
2022-05-23 15:30:57 +0200 <dminuoso_> 40 lines of complex code without a single annotation gives ghc *a lot* of inference room
2022-05-23 15:31:21 +0200 <dminuoso_> It's going to be near impossible to understand the type error unless you can simultaneously juggle *all* types of *all* bindings used in your head.
2022-05-23 15:31:29 +0200kuribas(~user@ptr-17d51eo3ilbab6gzrol.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.3))
2022-05-23 15:33:07 +0200 <dminuoso_> maerwald: But I guess you have a point. Perhaps this is just what programming really means.
2022-05-23 15:33:22 +0200 <dminuoso_> Its becoming less and less of a creative task, its more of a "plumb things that you dont understand together"
2022-05-23 15:33:38 +0200 <dminuoso_> Libraries where you have some vague idea of a) what they do, b) how to use them. Not audited of course.
2022-05-23 15:34:06 +0200 <albet70> it could be possible to install ghc on linux without root privilege?
2022-05-23 15:34:20 +0200 <dminuoso_> shouldnt ghcup be able to do this?
2022-05-23 15:34:24 +0200 <geekosaur> it's even normal these days: ghcup doesn't require root at all
2022-05-23 15:34:49 +0200 <geekosaur> anything involving your package manager, on the other hand, will require root
2022-05-23 15:35:45 +0200 <Philonous> »nix-shell -p ghc« doesn't require root
2022-05-23 15:36:01 +0200 <geekosaur> but installing nix to begin with does
2022-05-23 15:36:05 +0200 <Philonous> OK, not helping, sorry
2022-05-23 15:36:16 +0200 <albet70> and does ghc package manager need root privileges? cabal? stack?
2022-05-23 15:36:24 +0200anon15041149(~anon15041@host-80-41-95-245.as13285.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-05-23 15:36:26 +0200 <geekosaur> last I heard there was no way to use nix without creating /nix and it couldn't even be a symlink
2022-05-23 15:36:36 +0200 <geekosaur> albet70, none of them
2022-05-23 15:36:44 +0200 <dminuoso_> geekosaur: no you can use nix without creating /nix *just* *fine*
2022-05-23 15:36:52 +0200 <dminuoso_> IT has just a slight undesirable consequence
2022-05-23 15:37:07 +0200 <dminuoso_> Namely that you cant use paths off most binary caches anymore
2022-05-23 15:37:09 +0200 <geekosaur> even ghc-pkg --global needs only the permissions you needed to install ghc, which with ghcup will be your normal perms
2022-05-23 15:37:16 +0200 <dminuoso_> Which means you have to recompile *everything* from scratch
2022-05-23 15:38:16 +0200 <Philonous> I used to do that on FreeBSD anyway. It's manageable.
2022-05-23 15:38:34 +0200 <merijn> geekosaur, dminuoso_: You can use nix without creating /nix, you "just" have to compile it from scratch (after chasing down all the dependencies needed to build it)
2022-05-23 15:38:41 +0200 <merijn> Rather defeating the purpose
2022-05-23 15:38:51 +0200 <dminuoso_> not sure about "the purpose"
2022-05-23 15:38:58 +0200 <dminuoso_> It doesnt really defeat "the purpose"
2022-05-23 15:39:23 +0200 <merijn> dminuoso_: The purpose of "being able to install things without manually chasing down all dependencies"
2022-05-23 15:39:29 +0200 <dminuoso_> As long as the build processes are deterministic, which nix makes much much simpler to do, this will work out fine.
2022-05-23 15:39:47 +0200 <merijn> You just replace the process of "chasing down dependencies of stuff you want" with "chasing down Nix dependencies"
2022-05-23 15:40:25 +0200 <dminuoso_> I think this is a mischaracterization
2022-05-23 15:40:43 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:213:7200:cc36:a556:b1e8:b340)
2022-05-23 15:41:10 +0200 <dminuoso_> Imagine the nix store to be a big lazy thing, where "evaluating" values amounts to compiling them. As long as the act itself is pure, you can defer the evaluation to someone else, and that's hydra that feeds cache.nixos.org
2022-05-23 15:41:18 +0200 <dminuoso_> Whether you evaluate it, or nix, doesnt really matter
2022-05-23 15:41:29 +0200 <dminuoso_> Imagine the copying off the cache to be just an optimization from saving you some time
2022-05-23 15:41:35 +0200 <merijn> dminuoso_: It is not for practical purposes
2022-05-23 15:41:38 +0200justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy)
2022-05-23 15:41:56 +0200 <dminuoso_> gentoo users will agree that compiling things from scratch on todays machine is, for most software, not a big deal
2022-05-23 15:42:06 +0200 <dminuoso_> seems to be practical enough for them
2022-05-23 15:42:08 +0200 <merijn> dminuoso_: If you wanna use it without compiling from scratch AND without /nix, you have to setup a whole ass chroot environment
2022-05-23 15:42:25 +0200 <merijn> It's too much work to be usable in the settings I want it
2022-05-23 15:42:57 +0200 <dminuoso_> merijn: depending on the scale, you can simply set up a hydra yourself to prepare a cache
2022-05-23 15:43:23 +0200bgamari_(~bgamari@68.238.49.134)
2022-05-23 15:43:24 +0200 <merijn> dminuoso_: That already assumes more hardware than I have control over (i.e. non-zero, as opposed zero)
2022-05-23 15:43:36 +0200 <merijn> dminuoso_: I want something that just needs disk space and a shell
2022-05-23 15:44:01 +0200 <merijn> See: ghc & cabal
2022-05-23 15:44:15 +0200bgamari(~bgamari@2001:470:e438::1) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-05-23 15:44:33 +0200 <dminuoso_> Yeah, that just wont work for nix currently
2022-05-23 15:44:42 +0200 <dminuoso_> Im not sure whether this can be solved at all
2022-05-23 15:45:02 +0200 <dminuoso_> Other than chroot trickery
2022-05-23 15:45:08 +0200mbuf(~Shakthi@31.32.33.168)
2022-05-23 15:46:47 +0200 <merijn> dminuoso_: Right, hence why Nix is useless for all usecases I'd actually find it useful
2022-05-23 15:47:16 +0200 <dminuoso_> merijn: well you *can* just build it once and push closures onto some arbitrary cache host
2022-05-23 15:47:20 +0200polyphem(~polyphem@2a02:810d:840:8754:f931:96f6:617b:dade) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-05-23 15:47:30 +0200 <dminuoso_> I think there are pragmatic solutions to reduce the impact
2022-05-23 15:48:03 +0200 <merijn> dminuoso_: "you can build" <- yeah, my entire goal was not to build (as in program, setup, configure) anything at all
2022-05-23 15:48:13 +0200 <dminuoso_> Well, you wouldnt really?
2022-05-23 15:48:26 +0200 <dminuoso_> You'd just type `nix build ...` or `nix-shell -p ghc` or whatever, and then just *wait*
2022-05-23 15:49:09 +0200 <dminuoso_> Then when your system has build the entire closure, you can just nix-copy-closure it onto a cache host, and point nix to use it. The next time you can simply point nix towards the cache host, and it will grab the store paths off it
2022-05-23 15:49:40 +0200 <dminuoso_> The building happens completely transparently. A cache miss merely translates into waiting until your local machine has produced the exact store paths it would otherwise have copied off the cache
2022-05-23 15:50:35 +0200phma(phma@2001:5b0:2172:f278:a6dd:b379:f2aa:e443) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-05-23 15:51:20 +0200 <dragestil> how I do inspect / trace things from libraries with no Show, like TypecheckedModule and DynFlags in GHC?
2022-05-23 15:51:24 +0200 <maerwald> cache miss results in build failure xD
2022-05-23 15:51:43 +0200phma(~phma@2001:5b0:211f:4ad8:221f:e8:88e7:7008)
2022-05-23 15:51:45 +0200 <dminuoso_> dragestil: StandaloneDeriving tends to work nicely
2022-05-23 15:52:03 +0200 <geekosaur> maybe not in ghc
2022-05-23 15:52:28 +0200 <geekosaur> note that ghc has its own alternative to Show though, used by the ppr* functions (Outputable)
2022-05-23 15:53:16 +0200 <dminuoso_> As long as they are exposed in modules
2022-05-23 15:53:42 +0200 <dminuoso_> I think Ive seen some TH library exposing a kind of justShowItDamnit
2022-05-23 15:53:45 +0200 <dminuoso_> Cant recall its name
2022-05-23 15:54:34 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-39-34.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-05-23 15:55:20 +0200 <dragestil> still reading about standalone derivation on haskell wiki. i swear it's the hardest wiki to read
2022-05-23 15:56:17 +0200 <[Leary]> gastus: Due to plain Haskell's implicit foralls, STVs syntax is a bundle of ad hoc nonsense (imo it should have just gotten a new keyword).
2022-05-23 15:56:20 +0200 <dminuoso_> Mmm for GHC types it probably will be tedious, as you'd have to transitively do this on every nested type
2022-05-23 15:56:37 +0200 <dragestil> yeah the ghc types are huge
2022-05-23 15:56:49 +0200 <dminuoso_> [Leary]: Or they should have just made a breaking change bringing them always into scope.
2022-05-23 15:57:02 +0200 <dminuoso_> With some extension to turn it off, rather than the opposite.
2022-05-23 15:57:05 +0200 <[Leary]> Your trouble is this: "The type variable is quantified by the single, syntactically visible, outermost forall of the type signature."
2022-05-23 15:57:18 +0200jgeerds(~jgeerds@d53604b0.access.ecotel.net)
2022-05-23 15:57:26 +0200 <gastus> https://dpaste.com/3JCVZLXBP
2022-05-23 15:57:48 +0200 <[Leary]> So "forall label . forall tt . forall a ." only brings `label` into scope.
2022-05-23 15:58:10 +0200 <gastus> That makes sense cause tt2 is the first issue.
2022-05-23 15:59:47 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-39-34.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2022-05-23 16:00:12 +0200jao(~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net)
2022-05-23 16:00:19 +0200 <gastus> Yes, if i change the order eg putting tt first I get the same error with label
2022-05-23 16:00:44 +0200vicfred(~vicfred@user/vicfred)
2022-05-23 16:01:17 +0200 <dminuoso_> [Leary]: Uh really?
2022-05-23 16:01:21 +0200 <gastus> @ [Leary] looks like you identified the problem. Still don't understadn how to solve it.
2022-05-23 16:01:22 +0200 <dragestil> Well TypeCheckedModule is not an Outputabble
2022-05-23 16:01:27 +0200 <dminuoso_> I did not expect that. :(
2022-05-23 16:01:34 +0200 <[Leary]> gastus: forall label tt a.
2022-05-23 16:01:51 +0200 <geekosaur> I would suspect there's not much chance of a usable Show instance for it either
2022-05-23 16:02:02 +0200 <geekosaur> I don't think the AST can have a Show instance
2022-05-23 16:02:08 +0200 <dragestil> why not?
2022-05-23 16:02:13 +0200 <gastus> :-) :-) :-)
2022-05-23 16:02:40 +0200 <dragestil> how do you learn about these things if they don't show
2022-05-23 16:03:13 +0200 <dminuoso_> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/haskell-src-exts-1.23.1/docs/Language-Haskell-Exts-Syntax.html
2022-05-23 16:03:16 +0200 <geekosaur> TTG complicates things, iirc the AST is higher order
2022-05-23 16:03:18 +0200 <dminuoso_> haskell-src-exts can do Show
2022-05-23 16:03:57 +0200 <[Leary]> dminuoso_: Yes, unfortunately. I didn't know this myself until I looked over the STVs manual entry just now.
2022-05-23 16:04:02 +0200motherfsck(~motherfsc@user/motherfsck)
2022-05-23 16:04:25 +0200 <[Leary]> A breaking change would have been better than this. Ad hoc hurts.
2022-05-23 16:05:04 +0200 <dragestil> dminuoso_: do you mean h-s-e can do show for TypecheckedModule?
2022-05-23 16:05:26 +0200 <dminuoso_> No
2022-05-23 16:05:52 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-39-34.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-05-23 16:06:47 +0200 <dragestil> AST is just a tree, why can't it have a show
2022-05-23 16:06:47 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-39-34.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2022-05-23 16:08:14 +0200 <geekosaur[m]> Because of Trees That Grow which means it changes dynamically
2022-05-23 16:08:34 +0200remexre(~remexre@user/remexre) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2022-05-23 16:08:38 +0200 <geekosaur[m]> It's a higher order tree
2022-05-23 16:08:53 +0200y04nn(~y04nn@2001:ac8:28:95::a17e) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2022-05-23 16:09:31 +0200remexre(~remexre@user/remexre)
2022-05-23 16:09:57 +0200anon15041149(~anon15041@host-80-41-95-245.as13285.net)
2022-05-23 16:11:09 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-39-34.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-05-23 16:11:40 +0200 <dragestil> but isn't ttg a later stage than typecheck?
2022-05-23 16:15:15 +0200zebrag(~chris@user/zebrag)
2022-05-23 16:15:32 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@user/cfricke) (Quit: WeeChat 3.5)
2022-05-23 16:18:29 +0200 <geekosaur[m]> It's used by all stages, it's built into the structure of tree nodes
2022-05-23 16:18:33 +0200 <lortabac> dragestil: TTG is a design pattern, maybe you are getting confused with STG
2022-05-23 16:18:58 +0200 <dragestil> lortabac: you are right
2022-05-23 16:19:23 +0200jgeerds(~jgeerds@d53604b0.access.ecotel.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-05-23 16:20:19 +0200Infinite(~Infinite@49.39.114.62)
2022-05-23 16:20:22 +0200 <geekosaur[m]> And it makes tree nodes in effect dynamically typed
2022-05-23 16:22:09 +0200ubert1(~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf3b99c379a3c0fc7254b6b7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-05-23 16:23:01 +0200raym(~raym@user/raym) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2022-05-23 16:23:11 +0200 <lortabac> IMHO Haskell lacks a universal 'trace' primitive that can print any runtime expression
2022-05-23 16:23:24 +0200 <lortabac> something that triggers a warning if you forget to remove it
2022-05-23 16:23:37 +0200raym(~raym@user/raym)
2022-05-23 16:25:42 +0200 <geekosaur> the main problem with that is it means carrying around type information of some kind. which is the main part of what Show does
2022-05-23 16:25:48 +0200 <geekosaur> (or Outputable, etc.)
2022-05-23 16:25:58 +0200 <geekosaur> the other big problem is that functions are values
2022-05-23 16:28:11 +0200 <geekosaur> there's somethingin TH which can do it to some extent, as I think someone mentioned earlier, but it's cheating and digging the type information out at compile time to use at run time, which has both performance and memory costs
2022-05-23 16:29:35 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-39-34.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2022-05-23 16:32:24 +0200y04nn(~y04nn@2001:ac8:28:95::a17e)
2022-05-23 16:34:26 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-39-34.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-05-23 16:35:42 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-39-34.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2022-05-23 16:35:47 +0200jao(~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-05-23 16:35:54 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:f100:eba8:305a:4575)
2022-05-23 16:36:11 +0200 <exarkun> My Eithers keep stacking up. I have an idea that `Either a (Either a c) -> Either a c` might help somehow. Is that a reasonable idea? Is that an existing function somewhere?
2022-05-23 16:36:33 +0200 <exarkun> Or something vaguely that shape, at least
2022-05-23 16:36:36 +0200 <[Leary]> join?
2022-05-23 16:36:38 +0200phma(~phma@2001:5b0:211f:4ad8:221f:e8:88e7:7008) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-05-23 16:36:55 +0200 <geekosaur> sounds monadic, at least
2022-05-23 16:38:42 +0200 <exarkun> Hm join seems plausible but it doesn't do to `Left` what I might have guessed
2022-05-23 16:39:11 +0200 <exarkun> but thinking about join helps clarify my thinking about this problem, I think
2022-05-23 16:40:12 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:f100:eba8:305a:4575) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2022-05-23 16:40:37 +0200phma(phma@2001:5b0:212a:9768:c758:4004:47ac:81b8)
2022-05-23 16:41:48 +0200 <merijn> exarkun: What would you have expected to do on Left, then?
2022-05-23 16:42:43 +0200 <geekosaur> there are alternatives to Either that might serve your needs better, depending on the answer to that question
2022-05-23 16:42:50 +0200 <geekosaur> (These, Chronicle, etc.)
2022-05-23 16:43:20 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-39-34.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-05-23 16:43:56 +0200 <merijn> Validation
2022-05-23 16:44:06 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-39-34.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2022-05-23 16:44:06 +0200 <merijn> Chronicle is just TheseT, no?
2022-05-23 16:44:11 +0200off^(~off@c-24-126-228-147.hsd1.ga.comcast.net)
2022-05-23 16:44:29 +0200 <merijn> It is
2022-05-23 16:44:50 +0200 <geekosaur> and a bunch of helpers, plus has the ability to distinguish between "warning" type `Left`s and "error" type
2022-05-23 16:45:15 +0200 <merijn> geekosaur: It's literally TheseT, though? They come from the same package...
2022-05-23 16:45:25 +0200 <geekosaur> and fail immediately vs. fail at end
2022-05-23 16:45:40 +0200 <geekosaur> Chronicle is kinda the swiss army knife version of TheseT
2022-05-23 16:46:07 +0200 <maerwald> gimme an open sum type version of TheseT :p
2022-05-23 16:47:07 +0200 <exarkun> Hm, more thought required, it seems.
2022-05-23 16:48:38 +0200 <sm> anon15041149: figured it out ?
2022-05-23 16:48:52 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-39-34.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2022-05-23 16:49:14 +0200 <anon15041149> sm: yes, I managed to fix it, thank you
2022-05-23 16:54:14 +0200albertoCCz(~albertoCC@nat-cvi-a-5070.ugr.es) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-05-23 16:54:32 +0200albertoCCz(~albertoCC@nat-cvi-a-5070.ugr.es)
2022-05-23 16:55:58 +0200frost(~frost@user/frost) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-05-23 16:58:47 +0200shriekingnoise(~shrieking@201.231.16.156)
2022-05-23 16:59:07 +0200k`(~user@152.1.137.158)
2022-05-23 16:59:57 +0200 <k`> Is there a class like `MonadTrans t => MapTrans t where mapTrans :: (forall x. m x -> n x) -> t m a -> t n a` ?
2022-05-23 17:00:56 +0200cosimone(~user@2001:b07:ae5:db26:c56d:943d:e8f4:b662)
2022-05-23 17:02:35 +0200y04nn(~y04nn@2001:ac8:28:95::a17e) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-05-23 17:02:47 +0200y04nn(~y04nn@2001:ac8:28:95::a17e)
2022-05-23 17:06:29 +0200 <merijn> k`: You want natural transformations
2022-05-23 17:06:32 +0200 <merijn> @hackage mmorph
2022-05-23 17:06:33 +0200 <lambdabot> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/mmorph
2022-05-23 17:07:07 +0200 <merijn> :t hoist -- not sure if lambdabot has mmorph
2022-05-23 17:07:08 +0200 <lambdabot> error: Variable not in scope: hoist
2022-05-23 17:07:41 +0200 <k`> I'm looking at it now on Hoogle. Thanks!
2022-05-23 17:09:22 +0200albertoCCz(~albertoCC@nat-cvi-a-5070.ugr.es) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-05-23 17:09:25 +0200 <merijn> @hoogle hoist
2022-05-23 17:09:25 +0200 <lambdabot> Pipes hoist :: (MFunctor t, Monad m) => (forall a . () => m a -> n a) -> t m b -> t n b
2022-05-23 17:09:25 +0200 <lambdabot> Control.Monad.Morph hoist :: (MFunctor t, Monad m) => (forall a . m a -> n a) -> t m b -> t n b
2022-05-23 17:09:25 +0200 <lambdabot> Streaming hoist :: (MFunctor t, Monad m) => (forall a . () => m a -> n a) -> t m b -> t n b
2022-05-23 17:09:30 +0200 <merijn> Ah, see, there we go :)
2022-05-23 17:09:40 +0200albertoCCz(~albertoCC@nat-cvi-a-5070.ugr.es)
2022-05-23 17:11:04 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-39-34.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2022-05-23 17:13:15 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-39-34.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-05-23 17:13:34 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
2022-05-23 17:14:03 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-39-34.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
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2022-05-23 17:49:35 +0200Sinbad(~Sinbad@user/sinbad)
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2022-05-23 18:01:36 +0200 <k`> Would it make sense to add a `WrapMonadTrans` newtype to `Control.Monad.Trans.Class` to allow `deriving via` for lifted transformer classes?
2022-05-23 18:02:14 +0200 <k`> Or does the presence of methods that aren't lifts make that pointless?
2022-05-23 18:03:22 +0200Sinbad(~Sinbad@user/sinbad)
2022-05-23 18:03:44 +0200mbuf(~Shakthi@31.32.33.168) (Quit: Leaving)
2022-05-23 18:03:57 +0200 <k`> Looks like making an `MFunctor` instance would make deriving MonadReader, MonadWriter &c. possible.
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2022-05-23 18:04:18 +0200Hildegunst(~luc@80.248.12.109.rev.sfr.net)
2022-05-23 18:06:39 +0200 <Sinbad> I trying to get the git commit hash into version info of an application. When running the app with cabal exe, it works as expected. But after cabal install, the app shows UNKNOWN. How can achieve what I want?
2022-05-23 18:08:31 +0200 <geekosaur> you need to fetch and embed it at compile time, you typically can't retrieve it at runtime. I think there's a module on hackage for this, using TH
2022-05-23 18:08:32 +0200king_gs(~Thunderbi@187.201.97.18) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-05-23 18:09:15 +0200 <Sinbad> I am using the gitrev package and cabal 3.6.2
2022-05-23 18:09:38 +0200 <Sinbad> this package uses template haskell
2022-05-23 18:09:39 +0200 <geekosaur> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/githash might work better
2022-05-23 18:10:59 +0200king_gs(~Thunderbi@187.201.97.18)
2022-05-23 18:12:07 +0200jargon(~jargon@174-22-206-112.phnx.qwest.net)
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2022-05-23 18:17:11 +0200 <Sinbad> that looks the same as gitrev, and have the same problem. cabal install build the executable differently, I think that is the problem.
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2022-05-23 18:21:30 +0200 <geekosaur> hm. Snoyman usually knows what he's doing
2022-05-23 18:21:57 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:f100:eba8:305a:4575)
2022-05-23 18:23:07 +0200anon15041149(~anon15041@host-80-41-95-245.as13285.net)
2022-05-23 18:23:13 +0200 <geekosaur> mm, looks like it's a known issue and both cabal v2+ and stack v2+ have it
2022-05-23 18:23:26 +0200 <geekosaur> and it's not really fixable because they build outside the git repo
2022-05-23 18:24:28 +0200 <geekosaur> https://github.com/snoyberg/githash/issues/18
2022-05-23 18:24:44 +0200 <geekosaur> the discussion is about stack but cabal v2 does the same thing for the same reason
2022-05-23 18:24:58 +0200justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-05-23 18:27:03 +0200 <geekosaur> suggested workaround is to include the relevant information under .git in extra-source-files in the cabal file
2022-05-23 18:27:18 +0200 <geekosaur> the README discusses where the information it needs lives
2022-05-23 18:29:46 +0200dschrempf(~dominik@070-207.dynamic.dsl.fonira.net)
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2022-05-23 18:38:22 +0200 <maerwald> Sinbad: 'cabal install' does not what you think it does :p
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2022-05-23 18:49:26 +0200werneta(~werneta@137.79.219.99)
2022-05-23 18:51:16 +0200 <Sinbad> geekosaur: thanks for your help.
2022-05-23 18:52:05 +0200 <geekosaur> also what maerwald said: both modes compile the same way, cabal install just drops a symlink to the result somewhere accessible
2022-05-23 18:52:33 +0200 <geekosaur> the `cabal build` stage should be identical for both cases
2022-05-23 18:52:54 +0200jao(~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net)
2022-05-23 18:53:01 +0200geekosaurgot sucked down a wormhole checking ghc's issues for something else
2022-05-23 18:53:05 +0200Hildegunst(~luc@80.248.12.109.rev.sfr.net) (Quit: leaving)
2022-05-23 18:53:24 +0200 <Sinbad> geekosaur: no, I use copy mode and the binaries are not the same.
2022-05-23 18:54:12 +0200 <geekosaur> sure that doesn't mean it's been stripped?
2022-05-23 18:56:00 +0200iteratee(~kyle@162.218.222.107)
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2022-05-23 18:56:50 +0200 <Sinbad> no, it is not stripped.
2022-05-23 18:58:16 +0200CiaoSen(~Jura@p200300c9571e4b002a3a4dfffe84dbd5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2022-05-23 18:59:49 +0200 <Sinbad> simply, the two executable are not build in the same environment in respect to .git/, that is all.
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2022-05-23 19:01:34 +0200nate1(~nate@98.45.169.16)
2022-05-23 19:06:47 +0200 <k`> Kind of confusing how `cabal -v2 test` and `cabal v2-test` are completely different.
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2022-05-23 19:37:44 +0200 <adamCS> I'm trying to write a type-indexed expression type (sort of like in Richard Eisenberg's "STITCh" paper). And, I think, I was hoping to use recursion schemes to evaluate the AST (into Text; this is for a DSL to write code in another language). But the GADT I have now is not a functor, or even a higher-order functor as in the "compdata" package, because the type-index is of a kind other than "Type".
2022-05-23 19:38:58 +0200 <adamCS> Am I missing something obvious that might make such a thing recursion-schemes amenable?
2022-05-23 19:40:13 +0200pavonia(~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!)
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2022-05-23 19:42:34 +0200 <adamCS> https://pastebin.com/qbNydPLT
2022-05-23 19:45:02 +0200king_gs(~Thunderbi@187.201.97.18) (Quit: king_gs)
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2022-05-23 20:06:51 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ()
2022-05-23 20:07:30 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net)
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2022-05-23 20:21:28 +0200mjs2600_(~mjs2600@c-24-91-3-49.hsd1.vt.comcast.net) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2022-05-23 20:22:04 +0200albet70(~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8)
2022-05-23 20:23:08 +0200mjs2600(~mjs2600@c-24-91-3-49.hsd1.vt.comcast.net)
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2022-05-23 20:32:21 +0200 <[Leary]> adamCS: I don't know about existing machinery, but you can do something like this: https://gist.github.com/LSLeary/f6ab06b3a7b0a78104f385c5b8f540ae
2022-05-23 20:34:21 +0200Infinite(~Infinite@49.39.113.101)
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2022-05-23 21:08:49 +0200Atrx(~Atrx@122.171.246.163)
2022-05-23 21:09:13 +0200 <Atrx> Hello
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2022-05-23 21:47:25 +0200kenran(~kenran@200116b82b30e6001495bd294984be31.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
2022-05-23 21:48:39 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-39.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
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2022-05-23 21:50:14 +0200Sauvin(~sauvin@about/linux/staff/sauvin)
2022-05-23 21:50:14 +0200 <[Leary]> adamCS: I had the wrong variety of functor. I've revised the gist.
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2022-05-23 22:24:54 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
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2022-05-23 22:26:03 +0200 <adamCS> [Leary]: THanks! That's super helpful.
2022-05-23 22:26:24 +0200vjoki(~vjoki@2a00:d880:3:1::fea1:9ae)
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2022-05-23 22:43:04 +0200cyphase(~cyphase@user/cyphase) (Excess Flood)
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