IRCBrowse

2022/04/29

2022-04-29 00:00:54 +0200adium(adium@user/adium) (Quit: Stable ZNC by #bnc4you)
2022-04-29 00:01:51 +0200qhong(~qhong@rescomp-21-400677.stanford.edu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-04-29 00:02:02 +0200qhong(~qhong@rescomp-21-400677.stanford.edu)
2022-04-29 00:02:33 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-19-191.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-04-29 00:03:04 +0200littlebobeep(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-04-29 00:03:32 +0200littlebobeep(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo)
2022-04-29 00:03:44 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-19-191.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2022-04-29 00:05:09 +0200Unicorn_Princess(~Unicorn_P@93-103-228-248.dynamic.t-2.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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2022-04-29 00:11:22 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a8-176.dhcp.inet.fi) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-04-29 00:13:27 +0200redb(~nmh@136.49.49.211)
2022-04-29 00:14:27 +0200acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d0c73b4546e4253b429b24fbd0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-04-29 00:14:27 +0200cosimone(~user@2001:b07:ae5:db26:c24a:d20:4d91:1e20) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-04-29 00:17:05 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-19-191.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
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2022-04-29 00:22:52 +0200redb(~nmh@136.49.49.211)
2022-04-29 00:23:25 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2022-04-29 00:26:09 +0200dhil(~dhil@cpc103052-sgyl39-2-0-cust260.18-2.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2022-04-29 00:29:34 +0200littlebobeep(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2022-04-29 00:33:44 +0200littlebobeep(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo)
2022-04-29 00:37:34 +0200 <jackdk> tomsmeding: I think you've rediscovered `MFunctor` from package `mmorph`
2022-04-29 00:40:33 +0200noddy(~user@user/noddy)
2022-04-29 00:44:11 +0200gehmehgeh(~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Quit: Leaving)
2022-04-29 00:46:20 +0200d34df00d(~d34df00d@2600:1700:8c60:3a10::46) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-04-29 00:46:58 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a8-176.dhcp.inet.fi)
2022-04-29 00:49:57 +0200redb(~nmh@136.49.49.211)
2022-04-29 00:49:57 +0200tfeb(~tfb@88.98.95.237)
2022-04-29 00:52:35 +0200tfeb(~tfb@88.98.95.237) (Client Quit)
2022-04-29 00:53:39 +0200mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@213.177.151.239) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-04-29 00:54:45 +0200redb(~nmh@136.49.49.211) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-04-29 00:54:46 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-19-191.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-04-29 00:55:26 +0200redb(~nmh@136.49.49.211)
2022-04-29 00:55:33 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-19-191.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2022-04-29 00:58:18 +0200 <alexfmpe[m]> I'm having trouble finding a repo on github with a ghc build time measurement util - I remember it generated an .html you could open with bar charts and stuff
2022-04-29 00:58:30 +0200 <alexfmpe[m]> only finding https://github.com/dgaw/hs-bench-build but don't think that's it
2022-04-29 00:59:27 +0200 <alexfmpe[m]> er, not build-ghc time, but time spent by ghc building your code
2022-04-29 01:00:17 +0200 <alexfmpe[m]> found it: https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/owmp0m/ann_timeghcmodules_a_tool_to_visualize_your_build/
2022-04-29 01:00:25 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-19-191.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-04-29 01:02:39 +0200jgeerds(~jgeerds@d53604b0.access.ecotel.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-04-29 01:02:51 +0200flupe(~baboum@radon.sbi.re) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2022-04-29 01:06:40 +0200Midjak(~Midjak@82.66.147.146) (Quit: Leaving)
2022-04-29 01:07:35 +0200Midjak(~Midjak@82.66.147.146)
2022-04-29 01:08:01 +0200adium(adium@user/adium)
2022-04-29 01:08:43 +0200Entertainment(~entertain@104.246.145.85) ()
2022-04-29 01:09:51 +0200Midjak(~Midjak@82.66.147.146) (Client Quit)
2022-04-29 01:17:36 +0200redb(~nmh@136.49.49.211) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2022-04-29 01:18:29 +0200zer0bitz_(~zer0bitz@2001:2003:f444:8f00:d574:e21:693b:1578) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-04-29 01:21:04 +0200littlebobeep(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2022-04-29 01:38:54 +0200mjs2600(~mjs2600@c-24-91-3-49.hsd1.vt.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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2022-04-29 01:46:49 +0200mvk(~mvk@2607:fea8:5ce3:8500::aa1d)
2022-04-29 01:50:10 +0200jargon(~jargon@174-22-223-120.phnx.qwest.net)
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2022-04-29 01:52:48 +0200zaquest(~notzaques@5.130.79.72) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-04-29 01:54:47 +0200qhong(~qhong@rescomp-21-400677.stanford.edu) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-04-29 01:54:55 +0200ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) (Quit: ec)
2022-04-29 01:55:28 +0200qhong(~qhong@rescomp-21-400677.stanford.edu)
2022-04-29 01:56:15 +0200ormaajjaamro
2022-04-29 01:57:29 +0200pretty_dumm_guy(trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655)
2022-04-29 01:58:05 +0200ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec)
2022-04-29 01:58:13 +0200pretty_d1(trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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2022-04-29 02:00:59 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex)
2022-04-29 02:01:16 +0200mjs2600(~mjs2600@c-24-91-3-49.hsd1.vt.comcast.net)
2022-04-29 02:04:58 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-04-29 02:10:22 +0200mjs2600(~mjs2600@c-24-91-3-49.hsd1.vt.comcast.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2022-04-29 02:19:08 +0200vicfred(~vicfred@user/vicfred) (Quit: Leaving)
2022-04-29 02:20:00 +0200pretty_dumm_guy(trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655) (Quit: WeeChat 3.5)
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2022-04-29 02:24:13 +0200xaotuk(~sasha@net162-32-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs)
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2022-04-29 02:30:41 +0200totbwf__(sid402332@id-402332.uxbridge.irccloud.com)
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2022-04-29 02:57:24 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-04-29 02:58:12 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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2022-04-29 03:01:34 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
2022-04-29 03:02:13 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108.201.191.115) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2022-04-29 03:03:06 +0200littlebobeep(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo)
2022-04-29 03:07:26 +0200frost(~frost@user/frost)
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2022-04-29 03:16:37 +0200albet70(~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8)
2022-04-29 03:20:23 +0200mmhat(~mmh@55d4d51f.access.ecotel.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-04-29 03:21:40 +0200jargon_(~jargon@174-22-206-112.phnx.qwest.net)
2022-04-29 03:21:58 +0200Macbethwin(~chargen@D964062A.static.ziggozakelijk.nl) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-04-29 03:22:12 +0200littlebobeep(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo)
2022-04-29 03:22:17 +0200Macbethwin(~chargen@D964062A.static.ziggozakelijk.nl)
2022-04-29 03:22:36 +0200mc47(~mc47@xmonad/TheMC47) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-04-29 03:23:33 +0200jargon(~jargon@174-22-223-120.phnx.qwest.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2022-04-29 03:23:51 +0200 <abastro[m]> Can anyone tell me why the second answer from https://stackoverflow.com/questions/14012603/how-to-implement-dijkstra-algorithm-in-haskell is SPFA not dijkstra?
2022-04-29 03:24:33 +0200xff0x_(~xff0x@om126167099166.29.openmobile.ne.jp)
2022-04-29 03:26:15 +0200jao(~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net)
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2022-04-29 03:41:01 +0200lechner(lechner@debian/lechner) (Quit: WeeChat 3.5)
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2022-04-29 03:43:03 +0200dcoutts_(~duncan@host213-122-143-245.range213-122.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2022-04-29 03:43:07 +0200andrey__(~andrey@p200300dbcf087900604788b0cc6ab984.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
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2022-04-29 03:56:11 +0200hololeap(~hololeap@user/hololeap) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-04-29 03:56:29 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@206-55-188-8.fttp.usinternet.com)
2022-04-29 03:56:29 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@206-55-188-8.fttp.usinternet.com) (Changing host)
2022-04-29 03:56:29 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe)
2022-04-29 03:56:55 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-19-191.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
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2022-04-29 04:05:34 +0200leungbk(~user@2603-8000-1201-2dd2-8941-f45a-8e9c-72d3.res6.spectrum.com)
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2022-04-29 04:19:33 +0200finn_elija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643)
2022-04-29 04:19:33 +0200FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Killed (NickServ (Forcing logout FinnElija -> finn_elija)))
2022-04-29 04:19:33 +0200finn_elijaFinnElija
2022-04-29 04:20:08 +0200gpncarl(~gpncarl@210.12.195.5)
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2022-04-29 04:26:52 +0200AlexNoo_(~AlexNoo@178.34.160.71)
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2022-04-29 04:33:04 +0200kaph(~kaph@net-2-42-128-205.cust.vodafonedsl.it)
2022-04-29 04:33:57 +0200AlexZenon(~alzenon@178.34.160.71)
2022-04-29 04:34:07 +0200Alex_test(~al_test@178.34.160.71)
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2022-04-29 04:48:58 +0200littlebo1eep(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo)
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2022-04-29 04:52:31 +0200deadmarshal_(~deadmarsh@95.38.119.247)
2022-04-29 04:54:16 +0200oxide(~lambda@user/oxide)
2022-04-29 04:54:43 +0200mmhat(~mmh@55d4d7fb.access.ecotel.net) (Quit: WeeChat 3.5)
2022-04-29 04:57:05 +0200Techcable(~Techcable@user/Techcable) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2022-04-29 04:58:18 +0200Techcable(~Techcable@user/Techcable)
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2022-04-29 05:06:57 +0200gpncarl(~gpncarl@210.12.195.5)
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2022-04-29 05:25:51 +0200zebrag(~chris@user/zebrag) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2022-04-29 05:26:06 +0200jao(~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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2022-04-29 06:00:34 +0200littlebo1eep(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-04-29 06:05:59 +0200slaydr(~seriley@75.164.21.11)
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2022-04-29 06:10:12 +0200Macbethwin(~chargen@D964062A.static.ziggozakelijk.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2022-04-29 06:13:13 +0200notzmv(~zmv@user/notzmv)
2022-04-29 06:15:14 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a8-176.dhcp.inet.fi) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-04-29 06:18:30 +0200leungbk(~user@2603-8000-1201-2dd2-8941-f45a-8e9c-72d3.res6.spectrum.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-04-29 06:19:32 +0200leungbk(~user@2603-8000-1201-2dd2-8941-f45a-8e9c-72d3.res6.spectrum.com)
2022-04-29 06:21:09 +0200P1RATEZ(piratez@cpe98524ab27125-cm98524ab27123.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
2022-04-29 06:25:39 +0200littlebobeep(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo)
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2022-04-29 06:29:09 +0200P1RATEZ(piratez@cpe98524ab27125-cm98524ab27123.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Changing host)
2022-04-29 06:29:09 +0200P1RATEZ(piratez@user/p1ratez)
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2022-04-29 06:35:01 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ()
2022-04-29 06:35:40 +0200zyklotomic(~ethan@res380d-128-61-85-233.res.gatech.edu)
2022-04-29 06:37:57 +0200P1RATEZ(piratez@user/p1ratez)
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2022-04-29 06:43:59 +0200cynomys(~cynomys@user/cynomys)
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2022-04-29 07:03:22 +0200kmein(~weechat@user/kmein) (Quit: ciao kakao)
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2022-04-29 07:10:51 +0200michalz(~michalz@185.246.204.109)
2022-04-29 07:15:36 +0200redb(~nmh@136.49.49.211) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2022-04-29 07:17:31 +0200Techcable(~Techcable@user/Techcable)
2022-04-29 07:20:36 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net)
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2022-04-29 07:34:44 +0200gpncarl(~gpncarl@210.12.195.5)
2022-04-29 07:36:34 +0200littlebobeep(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-04-29 07:38:38 +0200littlebobeep(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo)
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2022-04-29 07:52:32 +0200 <dsal> abastro[m]: I'm too about to go to bed to read that, but I think it's just looking at the shortest path to the next node. dijkstra looks at the shortest total path on every step.
2022-04-29 07:57:49 +0200bliminse_(~bliminse@host86-142-79-206.range86-142.btcentralplus.com) (Quit: leaving)
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2022-04-29 08:04:06 +0200bliminse(~bliminse@host86-142-79-206.range86-142.btcentralplus.com)
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2022-04-29 08:07:14 +0200searemind(~searemind@2401:4900:414e:bc55:cc66:ab49:6502:7de8)
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2022-04-29 08:10:45 +0200alp_(~alp@user/alp)
2022-04-29 08:11:18 +0200 <int-e> abastro[m]: it's closer to Dijkstra than to SPFA, since it picks nodes in order of increasing distance... but the toBeVisited set can contain useless entries (the same node at different costs).
2022-04-29 08:17:10 +0200P1RATEZ(piratez@user/p1ratez) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2022-04-29 09:07:42 +0200chele(~chele@user/chele)
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2022-04-29 09:21:33 +0200 <tomsmeding> jackdk: indeed lol
2022-04-29 09:24:16 +0200MajorBiscuit(~MajorBisc@c-001-013-041.client.tudelft.eduvpn.nl)
2022-04-29 09:27:35 +0200hiredman(~hiredman@frontier1.downey.family) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-04-29 09:33:45 +0200 <tomsmeding> monochrom: see: the haskell weekly news came
2022-04-29 09:38:11 +0200Midjak(~Midjak@82.66.147.146)
2022-04-29 09:44:32 +0200vpan(~0@212.117.1.172)
2022-04-29 09:46:00 +0200 <maerwald[m]> tomsmeding: has the playground been covered there?
2022-04-29 09:46:00 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@24.105.81.50)
2022-04-29 09:46:04 +0200littlebobeep(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-04-29 09:47:47 +0200acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d0c73b4503f47d9d030ed656a8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-04-29 09:48:42 +0200 <tomsmeding> it hasn't
2022-04-29 09:48:56 +0200 <tomsmeding> monochrom was just wondering why there wasn't a newsletter yesterday yet
2022-04-29 09:50:20 +0200 <maerwald[m]> tomsmeding: and dis you ask haskell.org to host it?
2022-04-29 09:50:31 +0200 <tomsmeding> I didn't yet
2022-04-29 09:50:37 +0200 <tomsmeding> I guess I could
2022-04-29 09:50:47 +0200 <tomsmeding> I wanted to do the horizontal scaling thing first maybe
2022-04-29 09:51:00 +0200 <tomsmeding> started working on that and progressing nicely, should have more time this weekend
2022-04-29 09:51:23 +0200 <maerwald[m]> It should be a microservice yeah
2022-04-29 09:51:41 +0200 <maerwald[m]> Literally the only use case for that abomination
2022-04-29 09:51:51 +0200 <tomsmeding> lol yes
2022-04-29 09:52:01 +0200 <tomsmeding> the concept of a microservice is not _inherently_ bad
2022-04-29 09:52:11 +0200 <tomsmeding> just like OOP has a bunch of legitimate usecases
2022-04-29 09:52:39 +0200 <tomsmeding> it's just that there are also quite a lot of situations where it's maybe _not_ the most effective approach
2022-04-29 09:53:47 +0200 <maerwald[m]> If you've ever worked at a Go shop, you'll have microservice PTSD for the rest of your life
2022-04-29 09:54:22 +0200 <maerwald[m]> Make it cloudscale
2022-04-29 09:54:36 +0200acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d0c73b4503e5dce27061996713.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2022-04-29 09:55:04 +0200 <tomsmeding> not going to use mongodb, don't worry
2022-04-29 09:55:19 +0200 <tomsmeding> there's not even anything to put in there lol
2022-04-29 09:55:53 +0200 <tomsmeding> sqlite is looking at the pastebin traffic and saying "is this database usage?"
2022-04-29 09:56:16 +0200 <maerwald[m]> How mucs GB?
2022-04-29 09:56:50 +0200 <tomsmeding> maerwald[m]: https://tomsmeding.com/f/pastebin_plot/dbsize.png sorry for absence of data points, I messed up the monitoring when migrating to different server
2022-04-29 09:57:00 +0200 <tomsmeding> x axis is days since unix epoch, because who doesn't love interesting units
2022-04-29 09:57:22 +0200 <tomsmeding> like 0.005 gb
2022-04-29 09:57:52 +0200 <tomsmeding> this in contrast to my conduit matrix server that I'm running for personal usage only, that puts about 1MiB per second in the syslog
2022-04-29 10:02:31 +0200 <maerwald[m]> Why not AWS dynamoDB
2022-04-29 10:03:01 +0200 <maerwald[m]> Or let's use smart contracts for pastebin
2022-04-29 10:03:14 +0200 <abastro[m]> maerwald: Go shop O.o
2022-04-29 10:03:29 +0200 <abastro[m]> Lmao smart contracts for pastebinn
2022-04-29 10:03:29 +0200 <maerwald[m]> abastro: I was young and needed the money
2022-04-29 10:03:51 +0200 <abastro[m]> I need to do that as well!
2022-04-29 10:04:06 +0200 <abastro[m]> Wait. (Thankfully?) No go shops nearby
2022-04-29 10:04:17 +0200 <abastro[m]> Should do Java instead, rather
2022-04-29 10:04:29 +0200 <abastro[m]> And that admits less to microservices I think
2022-04-29 10:04:49 +0200 <maerwald[m]> Java has everything
2022-04-29 10:04:58 +0200 <abastro[m]> Oh noh
2022-04-29 10:05:00 +0200 <abastro[m]> Meh
2022-04-29 10:05:27 +0200 <maerwald[m]> E.g. better event sourcing than Haskell
2022-04-29 10:05:57 +0200 <maerwald[m]> Money solves your problems, not tech
2022-04-29 10:05:58 +0200 <abastro[m]> Hmm
2022-04-29 10:06:04 +0200 <abastro[m]> Event sourcing?
2022-04-29 10:06:42 +0200 <abastro[m]> Yea, Java now has history of all the money invested stacked as great return
2022-04-29 10:06:45 +0200 <maerwald[m]> abastro[m]: The next abomination right after microservices
2022-04-29 10:06:53 +0200 <abastro[m]> Wait lmao
2022-04-29 10:07:21 +0200zeenk(~zeenk@2a02:2f0e:7506:c001:7ef1:d76c:496:86d6)
2022-04-29 10:08:06 +0200 <maerwald[m]> Yeah, my life flashes before my eyes
2022-04-29 10:09:16 +0200 <abastro[m]> I thought you were talking about how it's rather workable
2022-04-29 10:09:44 +0200 <abastro[m]> Anyway I guess that's the price to pay to earn money
2022-04-29 10:10:17 +0200 <maerwald[m]> So what comes after microservices and event sourcing? Blockchain.
2022-04-29 10:11:00 +0200 <maerwald[m]> Maybe we could even partially evaluate haskell code via plutus
2022-04-29 10:11:53 +0200 <abastro[m]> Partially evaluate haskell code?
2022-04-29 10:12:05 +0200 <maerwald[m]> Don't listen to me
2022-04-29 10:12:13 +0200 <abastro[m]> Anyway I guess I could earn quick money through blockchain
2022-04-29 10:12:18 +0200king_gs(~Thunderbi@2806:103e:29:1f3f:9059:7534:3810:b9c6) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2022-04-29 10:12:47 +0200 <abastro[m]> To avoid direct guilt, just by getting hired by one such company
2022-04-29 10:13:17 +0200 <maerwald[m]> Well, there are some cool people working on it
2022-04-29 10:13:23 +0200 <abastro[m]> Bothersome and fruitless work for quick money
2022-04-29 10:13:35 +0200 <abastro[m]> "Cool" eeh
2022-04-29 10:14:12 +0200 <maerwald[m]> Who cares about the tech. I think it's more exciting to work with good engineers
2022-04-29 10:14:24 +0200 <abastro[m]> Hmm
2022-04-29 10:14:35 +0200 <abastro[m]> I mean quick money is more important
2022-04-29 10:15:08 +0200 <maerwald[m]> There's nothing quick about it
2022-04-29 10:15:29 +0200 <abastro[m]> True, but hm
2022-04-29 10:15:52 +0200 <abastro[m]> I think it pays better than some shit part-time jobs
2022-04-29 10:15:56 +0200 <abastro[m]> Like convenience store
2022-04-29 10:16:04 +0200ahammer(~ahammer@157.122.68.183)
2022-04-29 10:16:05 +0200deadmarshal_(~deadmarsh@95.38.119.247)
2022-04-29 10:16:13 +0200 <abastro[m]> And that is also referred to as quick money so
2022-04-29 10:17:36 +0200ccntrq(~Thunderbi@2a01:e34:eccb:b060:9de6:b0fb:57b3:5001)
2022-04-29 10:18:41 +0200asivitz(uid178348@id-178348.tinside.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2022-04-29 10:20:21 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@user/cfricke)
2022-04-29 10:20:40 +0200deadmarshal_(~deadmarsh@95.38.119.247) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2022-04-29 10:20:44 +0200 <abastro[m]> What kind of quick dirty job are there around
2022-04-29 10:20:51 +0200 <lortabac> re. event-sourcing, I've had some very good experiences
2022-04-29 10:21:33 +0200 <lortabac> and some bad experiences, especially when it was not the right use case
2022-04-29 10:21:47 +0200 <abastro[m]> Wow
2022-04-29 10:22:01 +0200 <maerwald[m]> lortabac: what is the right use case?
2022-04-29 10:23:40 +0200 <lortabac> there are some domains that are naturally event-based
2022-04-29 10:24:23 +0200 <abastro[m]> Is event-sourcing = event-driven
2022-04-29 10:24:30 +0200 <lortabac> by using a mutable DB you lose information, and run into various problems
2022-04-29 10:24:39 +0200ahammer(~ahammer@157.122.68.183) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2022-04-29 10:24:39 +0200 <lortabac> abastro[m]: no, it's not the same thing
2022-04-29 10:24:53 +0200 <abastro[m]> Hm
2022-04-29 10:25:21 +0200 <Hecate> and not the same thing as event-storming :D
2022-04-29 10:25:24 +0200 <lortabac> event-sourcing refers to how you represent the data that you store, event-driven refers to the flow of messages in your system
2022-04-29 10:25:29 +0200 <abastro[m]> XD
2022-04-29 10:25:44 +0200 <maerwald[m]> lortabac: that's too vague to me
2022-04-29 10:25:55 +0200 <abastro[m]> Ah, storing events
2022-04-29 10:26:04 +0200 <maerwald[m]> I've used it in fintech and my opinion is that it's useless to most use cases even there
2022-04-29 10:26:04 +0200 <abastro[m]> But yea, vague
2022-04-29 10:26:38 +0200 <maerwald[m]> For it to be actually useful, you need to write a lot of tools from scratch
2022-04-29 10:26:50 +0200 <maerwald[m]> Otherwise the advantage is only theoretical
2022-04-29 10:27:05 +0200 <maerwald[m]> And most of the time you won't have time to develop those tools
2022-04-29 10:27:08 +0200 <lortabac> maerwald[m]: first of all you need to use a specialized database like EventStore
2022-04-29 10:27:27 +0200 <lortabac> event-sourcing on top of Postgres is masochism IMHO
2022-04-29 10:27:38 +0200 <abastro[m]> Money solves problem :tm:
2022-04-29 10:27:48 +0200 <lortabac> then yes, you need to implement various tools
2022-04-29 10:29:12 +0200 <maerwald[m]> lortabac: yeah and you'll solve all the problems SQL databases have solved from scratch
2022-04-29 10:29:12 +0200 <abastro[m]> If you need the tools, pay someone who has the tools
2022-04-29 10:29:16 +0200 <maerwald[m]> So 50% of your time is wasted on novelty tech
2022-04-29 10:29:16 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108.201.191.115) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-04-29 10:29:16 +0200 <maerwald[m]> That has no business value in its own
2022-04-29 10:29:39 +0200 <abastro[m]> With money, they would have already patched those problems as well
2022-04-29 10:31:12 +0200 <abastro[m]> Like what would be problems of these EventSource DB compared to SQL, when they would have money to implement all the amenities
2022-04-29 10:31:18 +0200 <lortabac> maerwald[m]: I don't disagree with you, I'm just saying that I've worked on projects where event-sourcing was highly beneficial
2022-04-29 10:31:58 +0200 <lortabac> and we had the time and energy to build all the necessary tools
2022-04-29 10:32:30 +0200 <abastro[m]> Uhm wait
2022-04-29 10:32:30 +0200 <abastro[m]> You did not pay someone to build the tools?
2022-04-29 10:32:35 +0200 <abastro[m]> That certainly sounds wasteful
2022-04-29 10:32:54 +0200 <lortabac> abastro[m]: what's the difference between paying me or another person?
2022-04-29 10:32:59 +0200 <maerwald[m]> lortabac: it's a little like blockchain: huge technical challenges, but no one rally knows what business problem you're solving xD
2022-04-29 10:33:03 +0200 <abastro[m]> Unless employee pay is dirt cheap
2022-04-29 10:33:07 +0200ahammer(~ahammer@157.122.68.183)
2022-04-29 10:33:34 +0200ahammer(~ahammer@157.122.68.183) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-04-29 10:33:38 +0200 <abastro[m]> lortabac: you might be able to offload the boring work to low cost shops
2022-04-29 10:33:48 +0200 <abastro[m]> Outsourcing
2022-04-29 10:35:05 +0200 <abastro[m]> maerwald: At least blockchain is useful for money laundry
2022-04-29 10:35:28 +0200 <abastro[m]> And bypassing the govy
2022-04-29 10:35:30 +0200 <abastro[m]> Govt*
2022-04-29 10:35:35 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@user/cfricke) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-04-29 10:35:43 +0200 <maerwald[m]> I remember one incident where event sourcing could have been useful, but the event log was so noisy and the tooling years behind that it didn't really help. And since it was one incident, the business decision was to not spend 1 year to improve the tooling, but work on features instead
2022-04-29 10:36:16 +0200 <tomsmeding> abastro[m]: "unless employee pay is dirt cheap" I wouldn't want the code underlying the data store of my production application to be written by cheap workers somewhere that I don't know
2022-04-29 10:36:22 +0200 <abastro[m]> Well to be serious.. why no one developed good tooling for event sourcing if money is on those?
2022-04-29 10:36:29 +0200Pickchea(~private@user/pickchea)
2022-04-29 10:36:39 +0200 <abastro[m]> tomsmeding: I mean yeah, you don't. Businesses want that
2022-04-29 10:36:45 +0200deadmarshal_(~deadmarsh@95.38.119.247)
2022-04-29 10:36:54 +0200 <abastro[m]> Cost saving is half everything for businesses
2022-04-29 10:36:55 +0200 <tomsmeding> right, and I usually don't think like one
2022-04-29 10:37:02 +0200 <lortabac> abastro[m]: one problem is that it's hard to generalize
2022-04-29 10:37:09 +0200 <abastro[m]> Oh.
2022-04-29 10:37:16 +0200 <abastro[m]> Now that.. is meh
2022-04-29 10:37:40 +0200 <lortabac> different projects may require different tools
2022-04-29 10:38:01 +0200 <abastro[m]> Hm then, I don't see the benefits of event sourcing
2022-04-29 10:38:16 +0200 <abastro[m]> Don't businesses want to reduce cost?
2022-04-29 10:39:00 +0200 <abastro[m]> Then implementing machinaries which is available already if you use another platform
2022-04-29 10:39:08 +0200 <lortabac> that said, there are databases like EventStore which provide lots of generic tools to categorize events, filter etc.
2022-04-29 10:39:11 +0200 <abastro[m]> Would be very cost intensive
2022-04-29 10:39:32 +0200 <abastro[m]> Yea I mean you still have to implement more tools to suit your needs
2022-04-29 10:39:59 +0200 <abastro[m]> <del>Better to use sth like MongoDB because that is more egligible for cheap workers</del>
2022-04-29 10:41:13 +0200 <maerwald[m]> Most CTOs don't pick tech based on real business needs. It's usually either 1. I wanns try this cool thing or 2. Google employees wrote a blog post that tech XY solved all their problems
2022-04-29 10:41:29 +0200 <maerwald[m]> So let's just do the same
2022-04-29 10:41:29 +0200 <abastro[m]> Ewww
2022-04-29 10:41:36 +0200 <lortabac> maerwald[m]: +1, that's the real issue
2022-04-29 10:42:10 +0200 <abastro[m]> Why don't they put their knees down over capitalism
2022-04-29 10:42:18 +0200 <abastro[m]> down to*
2022-04-29 10:43:13 +0200dyeplexer(~dyeplexer@user/dyeplexer)
2022-04-29 10:43:58 +0200 <abastro[m]> maerwald: Google employees? Why do they get that much power
2022-04-29 10:49:58 +0200 <abastro[m]> .. Sorry for being facetious
2022-04-29 10:50:02 +0200 <Hecate> x)
2022-04-29 10:50:24 +0200 <abastro[m]> Is it possible to delete my own messages?
2022-04-29 10:51:34 +0200ahammer(~ahammer@157.122.68.183)
2022-04-29 10:54:32 +0200 <[exa]> abastro[m]: no
2022-04-29 10:55:56 +0200 <abastro[m]> Nooooo :/
2022-04-29 10:55:59 +0200ahammer(~ahammer@157.122.68.183) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-04-29 10:56:21 +0200hughjfchen(~hughjfche@vmi556545.contaboserver.net) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2022-04-29 10:57:09 +0200 <tomsmeding> #haskell-offtopic doesn't have logging ;p
2022-04-29 10:57:15 +0200 <tomsmeding> s/logging/public logging/
2022-04-29 10:57:20 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz)
2022-04-29 10:59:23 +0200 <[exa]> except for like, everyone logging it for private purposes
2022-04-29 10:59:47 +0200 <[exa]> abastro[m]: but you're always welcome to write a blogpost where you refute yourself properly :D
2022-04-29 10:59:58 +0200jgeerds(~jgeerds@d53604b0.access.ecotel.net)
2022-04-29 11:00:05 +0200polykernel[m](~polykerne@user/polykernel) (Quit: You have been kicked for being idle)
2022-04-29 11:00:06 +0200jaror[m](~jaror@2001:470:69fc:105::265) (Quit: You have been kicked for being idle)
2022-04-29 11:00:19 +0200desklamp[m](~desklampm@2001:470:69fc:105::77b8) (Quit: You have been kicked for being idle)
2022-04-29 11:00:32 +0200 <abastro[m]> Oh
2022-04-29 11:01:14 +0200 <abastro[m]> I mean writing rebuttal over my useless comments is by itself silly
2022-04-29 11:02:40 +0200 <[exa]> I wouldn't bother, this is IRC, no one reads what people say here! :D (but still, capitalism-kneeling etc would be better in #-offtopic)
2022-04-29 11:04:19 +0200son0p(~ff@181.136.122.143)
2022-04-29 11:05:20 +0200shriekingnoise(~shrieking@201.231.16.156) (Quit: Quit)
2022-04-29 11:05:55 +0200ubert1(~Thunderbi@2a02:8109:9880:303c:a404:bb1:fc68:65af)
2022-04-29 11:08:33 +0200nut(~haskellfi@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr)
2022-04-29 11:09:03 +0200 <nut> could anyone take a look at this ghc source compile error ? https://wtools.io/paste-code/bB3g
2022-04-29 11:09:24 +0200 <nut> i use the default compile configs
2022-04-29 11:09:34 +0200FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-04-29 11:09:42 +0200 <nut> ./boot -> ./configure -> make -j16
2022-04-29 11:13:39 +0200FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643)
2022-04-29 11:15:41 +0200 <abastro[m]> <del>Yea I mean, that part is where I thought is the most reasonable among my ramblings</del>
2022-04-29 11:16:45 +0200gpncarl_(~gpncarl@210.12.195.5) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2022-04-29 11:17:25 +0200 <[exa]> abastro[m]: what does the <del> around your post mean?
2022-04-29 11:19:04 +0200 <[exa]> nut: might be helpful to know what's the source version
2022-04-29 11:19:28 +0200 <[exa]> also isn't there any other error report earlier? this looks like an outcome of a command failure earlier in the process
2022-04-29 11:20:42 +0200gpncarl_(~gpncarl@210.12.195.5)
2022-04-29 11:21:08 +0200 <nut> it's the version i pulled directly
2022-04-29 11:21:26 +0200 <nut> [exa]: i checked and no previous errors
2022-04-29 11:21:56 +0200 <nut> [exa]: i'm building it without -j16 to see if it's related
2022-04-29 11:22:51 +0200 <nut> [exa]: it's the master branch
2022-04-29 11:23:27 +0200 <[exa]> removing -j16 should hopefully not fix anything
2022-04-29 11:23:51 +0200 <[exa]> in either case I'd visit #ghc
2022-04-29 11:24:21 +0200 <[exa]> btw check out if you are able to compile a tagged commit, master might just be broken or so
2022-04-29 11:25:12 +0200ubert1(~Thunderbi@2a02:8109:9880:303c:a404:bb1:fc68:65af) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2022-04-29 11:25:27 +0200 <tomsmeding> [exa]: <del> is html, and thus ""markdown"", for strikethrough
2022-04-29 11:26:01 +0200 <nut> -j16 gave similar results. i'm now on the 9.2 branch to test
2022-04-29 11:26:21 +0200ccntrq(~Thunderbi@2a01:e34:eccb:b060:9de6:b0fb:57b3:5001) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-04-29 11:27:19 +0200MajorBiscuit(~MajorBisc@c-001-013-041.client.tudelft.eduvpn.nl) (Quit: WeeChat 3.4)
2022-04-29 11:27:40 +0200 <[exa]> tomsmeding: yeah but like, what's the purpose of posting strikethrough text :D
2022-04-29 11:28:18 +0200 <tomsmeding> [exa]: I assumed tongue-in-cheek
2022-04-29 11:29:06 +0200 <tomsmeding> not sure what the difference in nuance is between that and /s
2022-04-29 11:29:21 +0200hiredman(~hiredman@frontier1.downey.family)
2022-04-29 11:29:52 +0200frost(~frost@user/frost) (Quit: Client closed)
2022-04-29 11:29:53 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2022-04-29 11:30:26 +0200 <[exa]> perhaps I'm bad at all this new IRC markup. :D
2022-04-29 11:30:46 +0200ccntrq(~Thunderbi@2a01:e34:eccb:b060:c1cb:857c:856:a6e9)
2022-04-29 11:32:06 +0200dyeplexer(~dyeplexer@user/dyeplexer) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2022-04-29 11:32:37 +0200 <tomsmeding> I think it renders as actual strikethrough in whatever matrix client they're using
2022-04-29 11:34:31 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-04-29 11:35:37 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2022-04-29 11:37:59 +0200dcoutts_(~duncan@host213-122-143-245.range213-122.btcentralplus.com)
2022-04-29 11:38:20 +0200mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@84.199.144.234)
2022-04-29 11:40:06 +0200xaotuk(~sasha@net167-34-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs)
2022-04-29 11:40:49 +0200 <abastro[m]> tomsmeding: I meant a bit different to /s
2022-04-29 11:40:57 +0200MajorBiscuit(~MajorBisc@c-001-013-041.client.tudelft.eduvpn.nl)
2022-04-29 11:42:18 +0200 <abastro[m]> That is, my useless comment
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2022-04-29 12:29:54 +0200toms(~foobar@pogostick.net)
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2022-04-29 12:42:33 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2022-04-29 12:43:05 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915)
2022-04-29 12:43:50 +0200dextaa4(~dextaa@user/dextaa)
2022-04-29 12:48:04 +0200 <int-e> tomsmeding: Is https://ircbrowse.tomsmeding.com/browse/lchaskell?q=tomsmeding supposed to do anything? I see no difference between that and the link without the q=...
2022-04-29 12:48:06 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-19-191.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-04-29 12:48:34 +0200 <int-e> (maybe it used to work but was too expensive? that's my speculation right now)
2022-04-29 12:48:52 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-19-191.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2022-04-29 12:53:48 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-19-191.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2022-04-29 13:05:38 +0200sprout(~quassel@2a02-a467-ccd6-1-1c23-6375-d28e-79ab.fixed6.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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2022-04-29 13:21:57 +0200gpncarl(~gpncarl@210.12.195.5)
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2022-04-29 13:28:11 +0200coot(~coot@213.134.190.95) (Quit: coot)
2022-04-29 13:32:05 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2022-04-29 13:36:55 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-04-29 13:37:57 +0200littlebobeep(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo)
2022-04-29 13:40:05 +0200 <tomsmeding> int-e: https://github.com/chrisdone/ircbrowse/commit/075232f70721837c01016d67393cf080e3fc822e
2022-04-29 13:40:29 +0200 <tomsmeding> I've been meaning to set up some form of search again for a while, but other stuff has taken priority :p
2022-04-29 13:40:57 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-19-191.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-04-29 13:41:08 +0200 <maerwald[m]> Start hiring haskeller!
2022-04-29 13:41:36 +0200 <int-e> tomsmeding: love the verbose commit message :-/
2022-04-29 13:41:38 +0200 <tomsmeding> me hiring people?
2022-04-29 13:41:43 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-19-191.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2022-04-29 13:41:43 +0200 <tomsmeding> int-e: right?
2022-04-29 13:41:55 +0200 <tomsmeding> well, the commit summary is not inaccurate
2022-04-29 13:41:59 +0200 <tomsmeding> it could have been worse
2022-04-29 13:42:29 +0200 <tomsmeding> int-e: there's quite a bunch of stuff in ircbrowse that was just randomly disabled by the time I started looking at the code
2022-04-29 13:42:58 +0200 <tomsmeding> there's a page that lists PDF links that just randomly didn't work because the sql query was wrong
2022-04-29 13:43:33 +0200 <tomsmeding> it kind of felt like Chris had done a good job of setting up a nice codebase, then had no time to do stuff anymore and made a bunch of changes with the minimal possible effort
2022-04-29 13:43:43 +0200 <tomsmeding> at least, that's my inference from looking at the code
2022-04-29 13:45:36 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-19-191.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-04-29 13:46:18 +0200 <int-e> Yeah, can't blame him. I was just wondering... looking at logs, he seems to have switched hosting providers for ircbrowse around that time.
2022-04-29 13:46:56 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-19-191.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2022-04-29 13:47:57 +0200 <int-e> (Not 100% conclusive, but if that's right, maybe he didn't manage to set up the sphinx search engine thing again and postponed that?)
2022-04-29 13:48:40 +0200xaotuk(~sasha@net167-34-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2022-04-29 13:48:43 +0200 <int-e> tomsmeding: Anyway, thanks for that link
2022-04-29 13:49:26 +0200 <tomsmeding> int-e: ah! That would explain it, yes sounds likely
2022-04-29 13:50:03 +0200 <Bulby[m]> Can I lift any value into type space? or only strings and ints?
2022-04-29 13:50:33 +0200 <tomsmeding> Bulby[m]: https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/latest/docs/html/users_guide/exts/data_kinds.html#extension-Dat…
2022-04-29 13:50:59 +0200kaph(~kaph@net-2-42-128-205.cust.vodafonedsl.it) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-04-29 13:51:16 +0200kaph(~kaph@net-2-42-128-205.cust.vodafonedsl.it)
2022-04-29 13:51:39 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-19-191.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-04-29 13:52:25 +0200 <Bulby[m]> What I want is a "Default" type where you give a type and then an expression of that type. If there is no field provided then I will handle that in code by grabbing the default type and returning that
2022-04-29 13:56:04 +0200littlebobeep(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-04-29 13:57:00 +0200sprout(~quassel@2a02-a45f-f170-1-dc46-b3e0-ed65-be35.fixed6.kpn.net)
2022-04-29 13:57:35 +0200 <lortabac> Bulby[m]: I don't understand your question, can you clarify a little bit or give an example?
2022-04-29 13:58:35 +0200 <Bulby[m]> So I want to be able to say... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/f35cda520bfc9626ab14be8797ba57d128f1…)
2022-04-29 14:00:10 +0200 <lortabac> ok I think I understand
2022-04-29 14:00:26 +0200 <lortabac> "hi" is the default string in your example, right?
2022-04-29 14:00:30 +0200 <Bulby[m]> yes
2022-04-29 14:00:41 +0200 <lortabac> and you want to generalize this behavior to all the types, not only strings
2022-04-29 14:00:54 +0200 <Bulby[m]> I understand symbols
2022-04-29 14:01:15 +0200 <lortabac> you need DataKinds, as someone suggested
2022-04-29 14:01:20 +0200 <Bulby[m]> I don't know if that will be needed, but would be nice
2022-04-29 14:01:46 +0200 <tomsmeding> symbols have the property that you can recover the value-level value from the reflected type
2022-04-29 14:01:52 +0200 <lortabac> and you need some mechanism to go from a type to its corresponding value
2022-04-29 14:02:05 +0200 <geekosaur> which is where it becomes a nightmare :)
2022-04-29 14:02:08 +0200 <tomsmeding> like, reify :: forall (t :: Symbol). t -> String exists
2022-04-29 14:02:19 +0200 <lortabac> geekosaur: haha, not necessarily
2022-04-29 14:02:23 +0200 <Bulby[m]> ok, I'll do it as I go
2022-04-29 14:02:29 +0200 <tomsmeding> that isn't predefined for every data type
2022-04-29 14:02:35 +0200 <Bulby[m]> I don't think i'll need to do anything other than symbol
2022-04-29 14:02:38 +0200 <lortabac> if it's just one-way (type -> value) a type-class should be enough
2022-04-29 14:03:50 +0200 <tomsmeding> with singletons you have this https://hackage.haskell.org/package/singletons-3.0.1/docs/Data-Singletons.html#v:demote
2022-04-29 14:03:56 +0200 <Bulby[m]> oh wait symbol won't work because I have to evaluate stuff 😭
2022-04-29 14:04:04 +0200 <tomsmeding> but try to avoid getting singletons in here if you don't need it lol
2022-04-29 14:04:18 +0200 <Bulby[m]> I am doing dbus stuff and want a default address
2022-04-29 14:04:32 +0200 <geekosaur> you can't have a value expression at type level
2022-04-29 14:04:43 +0200 <geekosaur> and type level expressions are things like type families
2022-04-29 14:06:59 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2022-04-29 14:07:00 +0200xaotuk(~sasha@net164-38-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs)
2022-04-29 14:07:36 +0200 <lortabac> the idea is to have something like this: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/cE7X9kMr
2022-04-29 14:08:12 +0200 <lortabac> however if you need more than this it becomes quickly a nightmare
2022-04-29 14:08:41 +0200xkuru(~xkuru@user/xkuru)
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2022-04-29 14:15:39 +0200Pickchea(~private@user/pickchea)
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2022-04-29 14:26:33 +0200Ram-Z(~Ram-Z@li1814-254.members.linode.com) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2022-04-29 14:26:55 +0200 <apache2> say I have data x = A | B | C
2022-04-29 14:27:09 +0200 <apache2> does haskell have "refutation cases" ?
2022-04-29 14:27:18 +0200 <apache2> ie I want to match something like
2022-04-29 14:27:27 +0200 <apache2> say I have data x = A Int | B Int | C
2022-04-29 14:27:55 +0200 <apache2> f x = case x of
2022-04-29 14:28:09 +0200 <apache2> f x y = case (x,y) of
2022-04-29 14:28:21 +0200 <apache2> (A 1, A 2) -> True
2022-04-29 14:28:37 +0200 <apache2> (B _ B _) -> True
2022-04-29 14:28:50 +0200 <apache2> (C , C) -> True
2022-04-29 14:28:54 +0200 <apache2> _ -> False
2022-04-29 14:29:37 +0200zeenk(~zeenk@2a02:2f0e:7506:c001:7ef1:d76c:496:86d6) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2022-04-29 14:30:07 +0200 <apache2> but I don't want _ -> False I want (A _, (B _ |C)) -> False and (B _ , (A _ |C)) -> False and (C, (A _ | B _)) -> False
2022-04-29 14:30:16 +0200mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@213.177.151.239)
2022-04-29 14:30:51 +0200 <apache2> so before I write _ -> False I'd like to know that all pairs of A _ A _ and B _ B and C , C are covered; and if not I want a compile-time error/warning about non-exhaustiveness
2022-04-29 14:31:51 +0200 <geekosaur> with -Wall (or the appropriate individual warning, I think -Wincomplete-patterns) it does exhaustiveness checking
2022-04-29 14:32:04 +0200Hiring(~Hiring@31.222.238.38) (Quit: Client closed)
2022-04-29 14:32:04 +0200 <geekosaur> you csn also -Werror=incomplete-patterns
2022-04-29 14:32:07 +0200 <apache2> in Ocaml I'd write type x = A of int | B of int | C let f x y = match x,y with A 1 , B 2 -> true | B _ , B_ -> true | C,C -> true | A _, A _ -> . | B _ , B _ -> . | C,C -> . _ -> false for example
2022-04-29 14:32:41 +0200 <apache2> and it will tell me that A _ , A _ -> . is not refuted because A 0, A 0 would match it
2022-04-29 14:32:55 +0200 <apache2> geekosaur: right but then I can't use _ -> False at the end
2022-04-29 14:33:12 +0200 <apache2> my data type has 20 constructors so enumeratin all combinations is going to suck
2022-04-29 14:33:46 +0200 <geekosaur> sure you can, that would just satisfy the exaustiveness checker that you'd covered all other cases with the catch-all
2022-04-29 14:34:27 +0200 <geekosaur> oh, I see
2022-04-29 14:34:28 +0200 <apache2> geekosaur: I'd be OK with 20x (A _, (B|C)) (B _, (A|C)) (C, (A|B)) cases
2022-04-29 14:34:34 +0200 <geekosaur> I think patterns don't extend that far
2022-04-29 14:34:40 +0200 <apache2> but I can't get | inside pattern matching to work
2022-04-29 14:34:51 +0200 <geekosaur> in particular there are no or-patterns
2022-04-29 14:34:58 +0200 <apache2> hm that's a bummer
2022-04-29 14:35:13 +0200 <apache2> can I compare the constructors maybe?
2022-04-29 14:35:40 +0200 <apache2> like extract the constructor function A and B, regardless of arguments and compare on the constructor itself?
2022-04-29 14:35:44 +0200 <geekosaur> not as a pattern. you can use guards (which is the syntax that prevents | from being "or")
2022-04-29 14:36:06 +0200 <geekosaur> A {} matches A with anything (as would A _)
2022-04-29 14:36:15 +0200 <apache2> (x, y) | toConstructor x = toConstructor y -> False
2022-04-29 14:37:03 +0200 <geekosaur> you're getting close to Generics there but I think toConstr might work
2022-04-29 14:37:13 +0200 <apache2> geekosaur: right but then I still need 20*19 cases to get exhaustiveness checking
2022-04-29 14:37:37 +0200 <apache2> is the toConstr thing possible?
2022-04-29 14:38:06 +0200 <apache2> (OCaml wouldn't allow that)
2022-04-29 14:38:41 +0200lbseale(~quassel@user/ep1ctetus) (Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2022-04-29 14:39:03 +0200anomal(~anomal@87.227.196.109)
2022-04-29 14:39:05 +0200lbseale(~quassel@user/ep1ctetus)
2022-04-29 14:39:25 +0200 <geekosaur> requires a Data constraint (so you'd have to derive Data on your type) and I'm still not entirely clear on what you're doing tbh
2022-04-29 14:41:30 +0200benin(~benin@183.82.204.110) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2022-04-29 14:42:08 +0200agrosant(~agrosant@79.103.56.172.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr)
2022-04-29 14:42:48 +0200jgeerds(~jgeerds@d53604b0.access.ecotel.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2022-04-29 14:46:29 +0200 <apache2> oh this works
2022-04-29 14:46:32 +0200 <apache2> data X = A Int | B Int | C deriving (Show)
2022-04-29 14:46:32 +0200 <apache2> :{
2022-04-29 14:46:32 +0200 <apache2> k x =
2022-04-29 14:46:32 +0200 <apache2> case x of
2022-04-29 14:46:32 +0200 <apache2> A {} -> A
2022-04-29 14:46:32 +0200 <apache2> :}
2022-04-29 14:46:41 +0200 <apache2> g = (k (A 2)) 3
2022-04-29 14:48:24 +0200 <apache2> then I can maybe do
2022-04-29 14:48:26 +0200 <apache2> case (k (A 2)) of z | z == A -> True _ -> False
2022-04-29 14:48:31 +0200Ram-Z(~Ram-Z@li1814-254.members.linode.com)
2022-04-29 14:54:41 +0200AlexNoo_AlexNoo
2022-04-29 14:55:51 +0200 <Bulby[m]> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/HQasship is there a better way to do stuff like this for tuples
2022-04-29 14:58:13 +0200jgeerds(~jgeerds@d53604b0.access.ecotel.net)
2022-04-29 15:00:21 +0200kaph(~kaph@net-2-42-128-205.cust.vodafonedsl.it) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2022-04-29 15:06:16 +0200kaph(~kaph@net-2-42-128-205.cust.vodafonedsl.it)
2022-04-29 15:07:08 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2022-04-29 15:10:27 +0200Unicorn_Princess(~Unicorn_P@93-103-228-248.dynamic.t-2.net)
2022-04-29 15:11:03 +0200 <[exa]> Bulby[m]: what's diwrap and dioptional? (can't find these)
2022-04-29 15:13:51 +0200 <[exa]> other than that I guess that general advice for avoiding long tuples would apply (why not make a small `data TheItem = ...` for this?)
2022-04-29 15:16:31 +0200gpncarl(~gpncarl@210.12.195.5) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-04-29 15:18:03 +0200__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn)
2022-04-29 15:18:18 +0200 <[exa]> uh wait, the (.=) there is from Aeson and not from lens, right?
2022-04-29 15:22:19 +0200CiaoSen(~Jura@p200300c95732ec002a3a4dfffe84dbd5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-04-29 15:25:24 +0200huu(~huu@uwyo-129-72-151-122.uwyo.edu)
2022-04-29 15:26:56 +0200 <huu> hi, wondering how to define data type as datetime ISO8601 - something like this? `created :: !ISO8601`
2022-04-29 15:31:48 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@206-55-188-8.fttp.usinternet.com)
2022-04-29 15:31:48 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@206-55-188-8.fttp.usinternet.com) (Changing host)
2022-04-29 15:31:48 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe)
2022-04-29 15:36:06 +0200nut(~haskellfi@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2022-04-29 15:37:02 +0200 <geekosaur> ISO8601 is not a type, it's a typeclass for formatting a DateTime in ISO8601 format
2022-04-29 15:37:32 +0200 <geekosaur> you do not normally *store* in that format (the formatted value is a String)
2022-04-29 15:38:39 +0200 <Bulby[m]> it's from Tomland sorry
2022-04-29 15:40:06 +0200benin(~benin@183.82.204.110)
2022-04-29 15:40:09 +0200 <Bulby[m]> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/tomland-1.3.1.0/docs/Toml-Codec-Di.html#v:dimatch
2022-04-29 15:40:09 +0200 <geekosaur> so your conversion from TOML would use https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/8.10.7/docs/html/libraries/time-1.9.3/Data-Time-Format-ISO8601.h… to parse the ISO8601 into an appropriate DateTime type (there are several)
2022-04-29 15:40:32 +0200 <geekosaur> oh wait, I think I've just confused two discussions
2022-04-29 15:40:33 +0200 <Bulby[m]> you are mixing two people 😄
2022-04-29 15:41:07 +0200jgeerds(~jgeerds@d53604b0.access.ecotel.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-04-29 15:41:16 +0200 <geekosaur> huu, anyway you don't store an ISO8601, you parse it into an appropriate type or you format the type into ISO8601
2022-04-29 15:41:24 +0200 <geekosaur> just as we don't store numbers as Strings
2022-04-29 15:42:13 +0200abastrooh no I need to hide my string-ified integers
2022-04-29 15:42:18 +0200 <huu> geekosaur so for strings it's ok to define it as `created :: !Text` ?
2022-04-29 15:42:37 +0200abastrohides "15", "42" and "960"
2022-04-29 15:42:46 +0200 <geekosaur> if you only care about the formatted value and don't want to manipulate it, sure
2022-04-29 15:43:14 +0200 <geekosaur> if you want to treat it as a DateTime, you want to use the function I pointed to to parse ISO8601 into a DateTime
2022-04-29 15:43:43 +0200 <Bulby[m]> Oh I see the difference in the examples
2022-04-29 15:44:09 +0200 <Bulby[m]> 1 of them is a sum type the other is arbitrarily allowing two different types to be together
2022-04-29 15:44:43 +0200 <Bulby[m]> well
2022-04-29 15:44:57 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
2022-04-29 15:45:41 +0200gurkenglas(~gurkengla@dslb-178-012-018-212.178.012.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
2022-04-29 15:46:07 +0200 <huu> geekosaur this here https://hackage.haskell.org/package/datetime-0.3.1/docs/Data-DateTime.html
2022-04-29 15:47:06 +0200 <geekosaur> DateTime is just one of them, you'll notice in there conversions from/to UniversalTime and then there's LocalTime
2022-04-29 15:47:12 +0200 <geekosaur> and ZonedTime
2022-04-29 15:47:24 +0200 <geekosaur> it depends on what you are doing with it
2022-04-29 15:47:36 +0200 <huu> ah ok ok thanks
2022-04-29 15:49:17 +0200 <geekosaur> since an ISO8601 formatted timestamp includes a timezone, ZonedTime would actually be my first choice for representing it, although for most things I stick to UTCTime aka DateTime
2022-04-29 15:49:45 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2022-04-29 15:53:52 +0200jonathanx(~jonathan@h-178-174-176-109.A357.priv.bahnhof.se) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2022-04-29 16:00:44 +0200vpan(~0@212.117.1.172) (Quit: Leaving.)
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2022-04-29 16:04:27 +0200hughjfchen(~hughjfche@vmi556545.contaboserver.net)
2022-04-29 16:05:07 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2022-04-29 16:05:42 +0200gpncarl(~gpncarl@120.244.220.254) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2022-04-29 16:06:02 +0200nut(~haskellfi@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr)
2022-04-29 16:19:29 +0200Hiring(~Hiring@31.222.238.38)
2022-04-29 16:22:26 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2022-04-29 16:24:36 +0200geranim0(~geranim0@modemcable242.171-178-173.mc.videotron.ca)
2022-04-29 16:25:12 +0200 <janus> any aeson maintainers in here? i'd like to discuss my PR for 9.2 compat for the 1.x series
2022-04-29 16:28:16 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo)
2022-04-29 16:28:21 +0200anomal(~anomal@87.227.196.109) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-04-29 16:28:40 +0200anomal(~anomal@87.227.196.109)
2022-04-29 16:29:10 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) (Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2022-04-29 16:30:38 +0200 <dminuoso> Is there some non-obvious way to insert a -v helper in optparse-applicative?
2022-04-29 16:32:54 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10)
2022-04-29 16:34:06 +0200 <janus> apache2: if you are using boolean guards, you are probably defeating exhaustiveness checking... so i think "z | z == A" doesn't make a lot of sense
2022-04-29 16:34:20 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2022-04-29 16:37:20 +0200shriekingnoise(~shrieking@201.231.16.156)
2022-04-29 16:37:40 +0200Guest|33(~Guest|33@83-84-24-47.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2022-04-29 16:37:48 +0200chele(~chele@user/chele) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-04-29 16:37:59 +0200Guest|33(~Guest|33@83-84-24-47.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Client Quit)
2022-04-29 16:38:27 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2022-04-29 16:38:27 +0200geekosaur(~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) (Quit: Leaving)
2022-04-29 16:38:40 +0200 <janus> apache2: did you consider a separate hierarchy with 'GroupA MyType | GroupB MyType'. then you get the exhaustiveness checking.
2022-04-29 16:39:54 +0200geekosaur(~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur)
2022-04-29 16:40:33 +0200kaph(~kaph@net-2-42-128-205.cust.vodafonedsl.it) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2022-04-29 16:43:00 +0200anomal(~anomal@87.227.196.109) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2022-04-29 16:55:55 +0200justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy)
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2022-04-29 17:01:37 +0200frost(~frost@user/frost) (Quit: Client closed)
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2022-04-29 17:04:02 +0200anomal(~anomal@87.227.196.109)
2022-04-29 17:06:17 +0200mjs2600(~mjs2600@c-24-91-3-49.hsd1.vt.comcast.net) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2022-04-29 17:06:54 +0200lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:11c6:ad8e:84a0:4c9d) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
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2022-04-29 17:07:42 +0200mjs2600(~mjs2600@c-24-91-3-49.hsd1.vt.comcast.net)
2022-04-29 17:07:50 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-04-29 17:08:54 +0200incertia(~incertia@d47-69-133-171.try.wideopenwest.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2022-04-29 17:08:57 +0200ahammer(~ahammer@157.122.68.183)
2022-04-29 17:11:13 +0200deadmarshal_(~deadmarsh@95.38.119.247)
2022-04-29 17:13:19 +0200 <Bulby[m]> ` (showHex r "") ++ (showHex g "") ++ (showHex b "") ` how can I take advantage of ShowS here
2022-04-29 17:13:32 +0200king_gs1(~Thunderbi@2806:103e:29:1f3f:9059:7534:3810:b9c6)
2022-04-29 17:13:41 +0200incertia(~incertia@d47-69-133-171.try.wideopenwest.com)
2022-04-29 17:13:53 +0200 <Bulby[m]> `prepends the output String to an existing String. `
2022-04-29 17:14:07 +0200king_gs(~Thunderbi@187.201.77.157) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-04-29 17:14:08 +0200king_gs1king_gs
2022-04-29 17:16:12 +0200deadmarshal_(~deadmarsh@95.38.119.247) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2022-04-29 17:18:07 +0200gehmehgeh(~user@user/gehmehgeh)
2022-04-29 17:20:37 +0200 <geekosaur> > let r = 127; g = 63; b = 255 in showHex r . showHex g . showHex b $ ""
2022-04-29 17:20:39 +0200 <lambdabot> "7f3fff"
2022-04-29 17:20:43 +0200frost(~frost@user/frost)
2022-04-29 17:20:56 +0200 <Bulby[m]> \o/
2022-04-29 17:21:12 +0200 <Bulby[m]> wasn't sure if it would be in a sane order
2022-04-29 17:21:59 +0200ahammer(~ahammer@157.122.68.183) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-04-29 17:22:34 +0200stackdroid18(14094@user/stackdroid)
2022-04-29 17:23:09 +0200pooryorick(~pooryoric@87-119-174-173.tll.elisa.ee) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-04-29 17:25:38 +0200coot(~coot@213.134.190.95)
2022-04-29 17:26:19 +0200 <EvanR> think of showHex 127 as ("7f" ++)
2022-04-29 17:26:48 +0200 <Bulby[m]> yeah I was unsure if it was going to be `(++ "7f")`
2022-04-29 17:26:56 +0200 <EvanR> that's what I'm saying xD
2022-04-29 17:27:00 +0200 <geekosaur> "try it and see"
2022-04-29 17:27:02 +0200 <EvanR> big difference
2022-04-29 17:27:37 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2022-04-29 17:27:55 +0200 <EvanR> ("7f" ++) has a chance at being efficient
2022-04-29 17:28:06 +0200pooryorick(~pooryoric@87-119-174-173.tll.elisa.ee)
2022-04-29 17:28:06 +0200 <EvanR> the other one not so much
2022-04-29 17:28:28 +0200ahammer(~ahammer@157.122.68.227)
2022-04-29 17:28:34 +0200 <dminuoso> Rather than ShowS, can we just have dlist in base please?
2022-04-29 17:29:04 +0200ccntrq(~Thunderbi@2a01:e34:eccb:b060:441e:52da:78fc:d8fa)
2022-04-29 17:29:12 +0200jespada(~jespada@89.238.130.78) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2022-04-29 17:29:21 +0200 <dminuoso> It's a bit strange to throw singly linked lists at us, and not give us the tools to work efficiently with them. :(
2022-04-29 17:29:40 +0200 <dminuoso> (I mean yeah, you can do it all by hand, but a newtype wrapper and separate functions help a lot)
2022-04-29 17:29:56 +0200 <EvanR> is it that there are too many dlist packages to choose from? xD
2022-04-29 17:30:02 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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2022-04-29 17:30:52 +0200jespada(~jespada@cpc121022-nmal24-2-0-cust171.19-2.cable.virginm.net)
2022-04-29 17:31:50 +0200nut(~haskellfi@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2022-04-29 17:32:34 +0200nut(~haskellfi@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr)
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2022-04-29 17:39:19 +0200 <c_wraith> dminuoso: what, is Endo [a] too annoying?
2022-04-29 17:39:58 +0200 <c_wraith> (the answer is probably "yes)
2022-04-29 17:40:08 +0200 <c_wraith> uh. just ignore that syntax error, please. :)
2022-04-29 17:40:42 +0200ahammer(~ahammer@157.122.68.183) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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2022-04-29 17:42:05 +0200 <Franciman> does ghc do the so called cons tail optimisation?
2022-04-29 17:42:19 +0200abastro(~abab9579@220.75.216.63) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-04-29 17:42:32 +0200 <Franciman> or tail optimisation modulo cons
2022-04-29 17:43:43 +0200 <c_wraith> I've never heard of that one, but... the answer is probably one of "yes, but it's less helpful than you think" and "it's not even relevant", like most questions about tail calls in haskell
2022-04-29 17:44:12 +0200frost(~frost@user/frost) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-04-29 17:44:52 +0200 <c_wraith> ah. I looked it up. That's the latter case.
2022-04-29 17:44:58 +0200zer0bitz(~zer0bitz@2001:2003:f444:8f00:c914:2e3d:9c4a:a429)
2022-04-29 17:45:50 +0200 <c_wraith> It's not even relevant, because of laziness
2022-04-29 17:46:59 +0200 <Franciman> gorg
2022-04-29 17:47:01 +0200 <Franciman> ty
2022-04-29 17:48:25 +0200 <c_wraith> In particular, evaluation stops at a data constructor.
2022-04-29 17:48:28 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2022-04-29 17:49:27 +0200 <Franciman> so i just build a long list of thunks in heap
2022-04-29 17:49:34 +0200 <Franciman> not in the stack and no need of tail call optimise
2022-04-29 17:49:40 +0200 <Franciman> just cry when it's slow, tho?
2022-04-29 17:50:33 +0200 <c_wraith> so if you say `map f (x:xs) = f x : map f xs' (pretend there's a base case too) that function doesn't cause recursive evaluation
2022-04-29 17:51:04 +0200 <c_wraith> It evaluates the first constructor of its input list, then generates a single constructor pointing to two thunks.
2022-04-29 17:51:12 +0200ahammer(~ahammer@157.122.68.183)
2022-04-29 17:52:03 +0200 <c_wraith> any recursive evaluation that might happen is going to come from whatever is consuming the output
2022-04-29 17:52:16 +0200 <Franciman> makes sense
2022-04-29 17:52:56 +0200 <Franciman> so in fact it does not build a long list of thunks either
2022-04-29 17:53:00 +0200 <Franciman> just on demande
2022-04-29 17:53:02 +0200 <Franciman> thank you!
2022-04-29 17:53:06 +0200 <Franciman> demand*
2022-04-29 17:53:28 +0200 <monochrom> Yeah lazy evaluation changes this. In this context, the eager instinct of "let me use an accumulator and later reverse" is actually bad.
2022-04-29 17:53:28 +0200cosimone(~user@2001:b07:ae5:db26:c24a:d20:4d91:1e20)
2022-04-29 17:53:48 +0200mjs2600(~mjs2600@c-24-91-3-49.hsd1.vt.comcast.net) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2022-04-29 17:54:05 +0200 <monochrom> Tons of "best practice" just go out of the window.
2022-04-29 17:54:07 +0200mvk(~mvk@2607:fea8:5ce3:8500::aa1d)
2022-04-29 17:54:21 +0200k8yun(~k8yun@user/k8yun)
2022-04-29 17:54:57 +0200 <monochrom> > foldr (&&) undefined (False : repeat True)
2022-04-29 17:54:58 +0200 <lambdabot> False
2022-04-29 17:55:05 +0200razetime(~quassel@117.254.34.160)
2022-04-29 17:55:10 +0200ccntrq(~Thunderbi@2a01:e34:eccb:b060:441e:52da:78fc:d8fa) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-04-29 17:55:11 +0200 <monochrom> You actually want that.
2022-04-29 17:55:19 +0200mjs2600(~mjs2600@c-24-91-3-49.hsd1.vt.comcast.net)
2022-04-29 17:55:25 +0200 <monochrom> > foldl (&&) undefined (False : repeat True)
2022-04-29 17:55:34 +0200 <lambdabot> mueval.real: ExitFailure 1
2022-04-29 17:55:45 +0200 <monochrom> And that's what's wrong with tail call and accumulator.
2022-04-29 17:56:38 +0200 <Franciman> i analyse this from another point of view
2022-04-29 17:56:46 +0200 <Franciman> haskell conflates sense and denotation
2022-04-29 17:56:49 +0200 <Franciman> because of laziness
2022-04-29 17:56:52 +0200 <Franciman> which is good
2022-04-29 17:56:59 +0200 <Franciman> until you start going crazy
2022-04-29 17:57:31 +0200 <Franciman> the fact that you can write a term to mention it, instead of fully evaluating it is gorgeous
2022-04-29 17:57:42 +0200 <maerwald> anyone knows if there's a good way to detect whether I'm in china (from within bash)
2022-04-29 17:57:54 +0200 <Franciman> lol
2022-04-29 17:57:54 +0200 <Hecate> maerwald: curl myip.whatevs
2022-04-29 17:58:01 +0200 <Hecate> can't remember the actual domain name
2022-04-29 17:58:05 +0200 <Hecate> but there's one
2022-04-29 17:58:15 +0200vicfred(~vicfred@user/vicfred) (Quit: Leaving)
2022-04-29 17:58:22 +0200 <geekosaur> just try to connect to something blocked by the great wall
2022-04-29 17:58:24 +0200 <maerwald> Hecate: are you sure that domain works in china? xD
2022-04-29 17:58:29 +0200 <monochrom> No, I think it's some people, not Haskell, who have that conflation. I don't, and I don't see Haskell doing it.
2022-04-29 17:58:40 +0200 <maerwald> geekosaur: yeah, like downloads.haskell.org ;)
2022-04-29 17:58:41 +0200 <Hecate> maerwald: for a chinese mirror? You can do like the linux & freebsd installers and ask the user if they want to specify their country's mirror
2022-04-29 17:58:44 +0200 <Hecate> maerwald: hahaha
2022-04-29 17:58:52 +0200 <Franciman> in haskell there is no distinction between evaluate to value and just do it whenever you feel like
2022-04-29 17:59:02 +0200 <Franciman> you must leverage ghc extensions like Bang Patterns
2022-04-29 17:59:34 +0200 <monochrom> I know some people intuit that [x | x <- [1..], x==0] = [] but I don't, not even on day 1. It's clearly bottom.
2022-04-29 18:00:00 +0200 <maerwald> the problem also seems to be that curl doesn't cleanly fail, so users get some corrupted empty files and then weird errors
2022-04-29 18:00:20 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a8-176.dhcp.inet.fi) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2022-04-29 18:00:39 +0200 <maerwald> well, you could say the file is not corrupted, because it's empty
2022-04-29 18:01:00 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@2001:999:504:1dda:267d:6860:bdf7:f68b)
2022-04-29 18:01:20 +0200 <Franciman> monochrom: so for you in haskell every term is just mentioned, right?
2022-04-29 18:01:21 +0200 <maerwald> sort of a thunk
2022-04-29 18:01:22 +0200 <Franciman> never used
2022-04-29 18:01:25 +0200 <Franciman> until main
2022-04-29 18:01:35 +0200 <maerwald> lazy haskell installation
2022-04-29 18:01:55 +0200 <Franciman> then you have to go back and descend the tree to mark the nodes who are not just mentioned, but used!
2022-04-29 18:02:00 +0200ahammer(~ahammer@157.122.68.183) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2022-04-29 18:02:51 +0200littlebobeep(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo)
2022-04-29 18:03:22 +0200maerwald(~maerwald@mail.hasufell.de) (Changing host)
2022-04-29 18:03:22 +0200maerwald(~maerwald@user/maerwald)
2022-04-29 18:03:36 +0200ahammer(~ahammer@157.122.68.183)
2022-04-29 18:03:54 +0200 <janus> maerwald: https://gadm.org/ has polygons for the countries
2022-04-29 18:04:43 +0200 <janus> another option is to look at the time zone
2022-04-29 18:07:00 +0200 <janus> while `date +%Z` could report "CDT", `timezonectl status` is more accurate and reports America/Chicago for me
2022-04-29 18:09:54 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-04-29 18:10:17 +0200 <EvanR> Franciman, you can think of a haskell program or value as being an expression, more often than not
2022-04-29 18:11:01 +0200 <Franciman> i wonder if i could add modal operators to the type system to keep explicit track of lazy evaluated thinks
2022-04-29 18:11:34 +0200littlebobeep(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-04-29 18:11:53 +0200 <janus> oh geoclue looks cool https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/geoclue/geoclue/-/wikis/home
2022-04-29 18:12:00 +0200 <Franciman> unquote :: □a -> a
2022-04-29 18:12:00 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
2022-04-29 18:12:01 +0200 <EvanR> if it's evaluated, it's no longer lazy
2022-04-29 18:12:37 +0200 <EvanR> but could hold unevaluated payloads
2022-04-29 18:12:43 +0200 <Franciman> i would also have k :: □(a -> b) -> □a -> □b
2022-04-29 18:12:58 +0200 <EvanR> I don't think quotation is the right way to think of haskell
2022-04-29 18:13:03 +0200 <EvanR> it's not quoted
2022-04-29 18:13:17 +0200 <EvanR> but there is template haskell
2022-04-29 18:13:27 +0200 <Franciman> quotation is probably a misnomer
2022-04-29 18:13:36 +0200 <Franciman> ok, can I use modal operators to keep track of thunks?
2022-04-29 18:13:55 +0200 <maerwald> Franciman: are you building a blockchain?
2022-04-29 18:13:58 +0200 <EvanR> thunks is an implementation detail, what are you really trying to do
2022-04-29 18:14:07 +0200 <Franciman> I'm trying to make sense of haskell's evil
2022-04-29 18:14:10 +0200 <Franciman> laziness
2022-04-29 18:14:21 +0200 <EvanR> laziness is also an implementation detail xD
2022-04-29 18:14:22 +0200 <Franciman> it evaluates things under my feet, and i'm too obtuse to understand what's going on
2022-04-29 18:14:24 +0200 <maerwald> I run my thunks via smart contracts
2022-04-29 18:14:31 +0200 <Franciman> lol maerwald
2022-04-29 18:14:46 +0200 <EvanR> evaluation is on demand, that's all
2022-04-29 18:15:02 +0200 <Franciman> so it's non local
2022-04-29 18:15:07 +0200 <Franciman> it makes local reasoning hard
2022-04-29 18:15:17 +0200 <EvanR> since there are no side effects it's fine
2022-04-29 18:15:22 +0200 <maerwald> Franciman: exactly!
2022-04-29 18:15:40 +0200littlebobeep(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo)
2022-04-29 18:15:44 +0200 <EvanR> whatever you would have evaluated, it still evaluates just at a different time
2022-04-29 18:15:53 +0200 <EvanR> (except for a difference regarding infinite loops)
2022-04-29 18:15:59 +0200 <maerwald> Haskell breaks with the "local reasoning" concept via laziness. You could argue it's inherently non-functional then
2022-04-29 18:16:01 +0200 <maerwald> hmm
2022-04-29 18:16:15 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:213:7200:cc36:a556:b1e8:b340)
2022-04-29 18:16:16 +0200 <EvanR> the purity of haskell is what saves local reasoning
2022-04-29 18:16:20 +0200 <Franciman> maerwald: the neat thing is that , as EvanR says, it can do it safely exactly because it's functional!
2022-04-29 18:16:22 +0200 <Franciman> lol
2022-04-29 18:16:34 +0200 <Franciman> EvanR: not local reasoning about performances!
2022-04-29 18:16:39 +0200 <Franciman> or space consumption
2022-04-29 18:16:43 +0200 <maerwald> Franciman: safely?
2022-04-29 18:16:44 +0200 <Franciman> that's a neglected form of reasoning, maybe?
2022-04-29 18:16:48 +0200 <EvanR> performance? nah nah nah I can't hear you
2022-04-29 18:16:52 +0200 <Franciman> eh indeed
2022-04-29 18:16:54 +0200 <Franciman> :')
2022-04-29 18:17:10 +0200 <Franciman> not being able to assess what my program does is B-B-BADDO
2022-04-29 18:17:13 +0200 <EvanR> laziness has a cost
2022-04-29 18:17:16 +0200 <Franciman> for my use case i mean
2022-04-29 18:17:21 +0200 <Franciman> that's ok for doing scripts
2022-04-29 18:17:28 +0200 <Franciman> not for working on my language
2022-04-29 18:17:31 +0200 <Franciman> interpreter
2022-04-29 18:17:32 +0200 <EvanR> it might not be good to run haskell directly on arduinos
2022-04-29 18:17:42 +0200CiaoSen(~Jura@p200300c95732ec002a3a4dfffe84dbd5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2022-04-29 18:17:43 +0200 <EvanR> but you could use haskell to make a language for arduinos
2022-04-29 18:17:51 +0200 <Franciman> just a compiler
2022-04-29 18:17:53 +0200 <Franciman> not an interpreter
2022-04-29 18:18:01 +0200 <Franciman> i could use it to make a program that makes interpreters in C, tho
2022-04-29 18:18:02 +0200 <Franciman> that's fair
2022-04-29 18:18:09 +0200 <Franciman> and something i tried, but i am too dumb LOL
2022-04-29 18:18:17 +0200 <EvanR> C's pretty bad for programming language development xD
2022-04-29 18:18:24 +0200 <Franciman> not when used as assembly
2022-04-29 18:18:30 +0200ahammer(~ahammer@157.122.68.183) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-04-29 18:18:36 +0200 <Franciman> you even get a lot of optimisations for free!
2022-04-29 18:18:55 +0200 <EvanR> you also miss out on a lot of optimizations
2022-04-29 18:18:59 +0200 <Franciman> true
2022-04-29 18:19:06 +0200 <Franciman> but that's for the next step of the work, no?
2022-04-29 18:19:21 +0200 <Franciman> it's a good first step
2022-04-29 18:19:28 +0200justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-04-29 18:19:36 +0200 <EvanR> since no one using the language cares what you used to make the compiler, just skip to the last step and use haskell, or something better than C at least
2022-04-29 18:19:50 +0200 <Franciman> ehm
2022-04-29 18:19:59 +0200 <Franciman> i see
2022-04-29 18:20:08 +0200 <Franciman> but haskell's laziness gets in the way and makes everything evil
2022-04-29 18:20:23 +0200gpncarl(~gpncarl@120.244.220.254) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-04-29 18:20:28 +0200 <EvanR> haven't noticed that
2022-04-29 18:20:38 +0200 <EvanR> purity is by definition lack of evil
2022-04-29 18:21:49 +0200gpncarl(~gpncarl@120.244.220.254)
2022-04-29 18:22:55 +0200 <Franciman> ^^ true
2022-04-29 18:25:16 +0200zeenk(~zeenk@2a02:2f04:a109:fa00:116f:8f1a:7ce7:cae5)
2022-04-29 18:26:29 +0200gpncarl(~gpncarl@120.244.220.254) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-04-29 18:35:20 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2022-04-29 18:36:16 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-19-191.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2022-04-29 18:37:15 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@206-55-188-8.fttp.usinternet.com)
2022-04-29 18:37:15 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@206-55-188-8.fttp.usinternet.com) (Changing host)
2022-04-29 18:37:15 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe)
2022-04-29 18:38:16 +0200 <janus> EvanR: what would be a better language to develop each of Python, Postgres and Lua in?
2022-04-29 18:39:19 +0200 <EvanR> is this a time travel question or a brain transplant question
2022-04-29 18:39:28 +0200 <janus> one answer for each :P
2022-04-29 18:39:51 +0200 <janus> the time travel variant is the most interesting
2022-04-29 18:40:31 +0200 <EvanR> haskell still had baby teeth back when those languages were being forged from pure chaos
2022-04-29 18:40:38 +0200 <EvanR> so not haskell
2022-04-29 18:40:56 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-19-191.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2022-04-29 18:42:20 +0200 <janus> A big part of why Lua is popular is because it is written in a really portable variant of C. Even today, lots of users would be hosed if they rewrote it in Rust/Zig/Hare/Haskell
2022-04-29 18:42:59 +0200 <janus> I think the argument also applies to Python to some degree?
2022-04-29 18:44:38 +0200 <janus> But in Python, the experiment is being conducted since Pypy is written in RPython
2022-04-29 18:45:28 +0200 <Hecate> python people don't care that much tbf
2022-04-29 18:45:39 +0200 <Hecate> python doesn't advertise the same things as lua
2022-04-29 18:46:16 +0200 <dolio> Isn't lua's selling point being embeddable into e.g. C programs as a scripting language?
2022-04-29 18:46:21 +0200 <dolio> That's pretty cherry picked.
2022-04-29 18:46:22 +0200 <Hecate> yes
2022-04-29 18:46:30 +0200 <Hecate> well, that's called a purpose :p
2022-04-29 18:46:38 +0200 <Hecate> low-overhead, low-resources
2022-04-29 18:47:40 +0200 <geekosaur> same was true of Tcl until Lua came along and trumped it with sane syntax
2022-04-29 18:47:41 +0200 <janus> ok, so that leaves postgres. we must convince them to switch to c++ like GCC, then we have proven once for all that C is bad
2022-04-29 18:49:23 +0200 <dolio> Also, just because your specific niche forces you to use C to achieve some goal doesn't mean that C is actually good at that general domain, where not everything neecs to meet that specific goal.
2022-04-29 18:49:39 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-04-29 18:49:53 +0200justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy)
2022-04-29 18:50:24 +0200 <dolio> It just means that your particular case forced you to use a bad tool.
2022-04-29 18:50:53 +0200 <Hecate> that is true
2022-04-29 18:51:03 +0200 <Hecate> but I don't know if that was anybody's point
2022-04-29 18:51:05 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2022-04-29 18:51:08 +0200 <janus> but why is the existence of 20 years of codebase and experience in a specific language not something that makes the language 'good'?
2022-04-29 18:51:28 +0200 <Hecate> janus: for the same reason tech debt doesn't turn into tech credit
2022-04-29 18:51:37 +0200 <Hecate> even wine turns into vinegar
2022-04-29 18:52:07 +0200 <geekosaur> C became popular because it was in the right place at the right time, not because it was good
2022-04-29 18:52:14 +0200 <janus> so english is bad too, esperanto is good?
2022-04-29 18:52:20 +0200asivitz(uid178348@id-178348.tinside.irccloud.com)
2022-04-29 18:52:30 +0200 <Hecate> janus: I don't know what you're trying to make me say
2022-04-29 18:52:35 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2022-04-29 18:52:40 +0200 <Hecate> so huh, please stop? :D
2022-04-29 18:52:42 +0200 <geekosaur> that doesn't prove C is bad, either, it just means you can't judge it solely by how popular it is
2022-04-29 18:53:34 +0200littlebobeep(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-04-29 18:53:45 +0200 <Franciman> hey vinegar is useful too!
2022-04-29 18:54:50 +0200 <Hecate> in french, it's caleld "vinaigre", which is the combination of "vin" (wine) and "aigre" (sour)
2022-04-29 18:54:56 +0200 <Hecate> and yes vinegar useful
2022-04-29 18:55:06 +0200 <Hecate> but not as a wine ;-D
2022-04-29 18:55:33 +0200econo(uid147250@user/econo)
2022-04-29 18:55:46 +0200 <Hecate> that being said, this whole discussion is leading to nothing
2022-04-29 18:56:07 +0200 <Hecate> so let's talk about something that doesn't rely on everyone's mis-interpretation of the other person's words
2022-04-29 18:56:12 +0200 <Franciman> i use it to avoid being bitten by mosquitoes
2022-04-29 18:56:18 +0200 <Franciman> i use it on salad
2022-04-29 18:56:25 +0200 <Hecate> I use it to be delicious when cannibals eat me
2022-04-29 18:56:29 +0200 <Franciman> and in some nice dishes
2022-04-29 18:56:37 +0200 <Franciman> yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaas
2022-04-29 18:57:21 +0200king_gs(~Thunderbi@2806:103e:29:1f3f:9059:7534:3810:b9c6) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-04-29 18:58:11 +0200 <Franciman> ok, what about this
2022-04-29 18:58:18 +0200 <Franciman> do you think is there ever gonna be Haskellton?
2022-04-29 18:58:26 +0200 <Franciman> an haskell compiler based on MLton's backend?
2022-04-29 18:58:40 +0200king_gs(~Thunderbi@2806:103e:29:1f3f:9059:7534:3810:b9c6)
2022-04-29 18:58:43 +0200 <dolio> Probably not.
2022-04-29 18:59:33 +0200 <geekosaur> Franciman, have you seen https://github.com/grin-compiler/grin ?
2022-04-29 18:59:36 +0200dextaa4(~dextaa@user/dextaa)
2022-04-29 18:59:57 +0200 <Franciman> yes, that one is coool
2022-04-29 19:00:19 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2022-04-29 19:03:52 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2022-04-29 19:04:37 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) (Error from remote client)
2022-04-29 19:05:24 +0200irfan(~irfan@user/irfan) (Quit: leaving)
2022-04-29 19:07:02 +0200razetime(~quassel@117.254.34.160) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-04-29 19:08:05 +0200jgeerds(~jgeerds@d53604b0.access.ecotel.net)
2022-04-29 19:08:17 +0200acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d0c73b450341d4da31930f8e6b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2022-04-29 19:08:26 +0200anomal(~anomal@87.227.196.109) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-04-29 19:08:40 +0200anomal(~anomal@87.227.196.109)
2022-04-29 19:09:43 +0200 <tomsmeding> Franciman: doesn't MLton implement a strict language
2022-04-29 19:12:52 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net)
2022-04-29 19:15:04 +0200anomal(~anomal@87.227.196.109) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-04-29 19:15:23 +0200anomal(~anomal@87.227.196.109)
2022-04-29 19:16:27 +0200elkcl(~elkcl@broadband-37-110-156-162.ip.moscow.rt.ru) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2022-04-29 19:17:44 +0200stackdroid18(14094@user/stackdroid) (Quit: hasta la vista... tchau!)
2022-04-29 19:18:30 +0200coot(~coot@213.134.190.95) (Quit: coot)
2022-04-29 19:26:26 +0200littlebobeep(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo)
2022-04-29 19:29:59 +0200benin(~benin@183.82.204.110) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2022-04-29 19:31:14 +0200 <Franciman> tomsmeding: yes, but in some slides of presentation they wanted to also introduce haskellton
2022-04-29 19:33:17 +0200pavonia(~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!)
2022-04-29 19:33:43 +0200 <tomsmeding> I wonder how useful existing opimisations for a strict functional language are when you compile a lazy language to it
2022-04-29 19:33:54 +0200 <tomsmeding> feel like it won't generate very natural ML code
2022-04-29 19:34:56 +0200chexum_chexum
2022-04-29 19:35:05 +0200 <Franciman> the important ideas are to convert an high order language to a first order monomorphic language
2022-04-29 19:35:17 +0200 <Franciman> i think this part doesn't depend on lazy or strict semantics
2022-04-29 19:36:30 +0200dcoutts__(~duncan@host213-122-143-176.range213-122.btcentralplus.com)
2022-04-29 19:36:31 +0200littlebo1eep(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo)
2022-04-29 19:37:04 +0200littlebobeep(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-04-29 19:39:46 +0200dcoutts_(~duncan@host213-122-143-245.range213-122.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2022-04-29 19:39:48 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-04-29 19:39:52 +0200 <EvanR> janus, from a ivory tower perspective, language users don't care what the compiler is written in. After all they are using language X not the compiler's language. But your practical examples involve stories where the programmers assume C or C++ is god and anything else is secondary
2022-04-29 19:40:28 +0200 <EvanR> there's no theoretical reason why that's the case
2022-04-29 19:40:50 +0200 <EvanR> which is good because pandoc users might not want to learn haskell
2022-04-29 19:41:56 +0200 <geekosaur> and in fact pandoc is widely used and nobody cares that it's in Haskell; they get it from their package manager and are none the wiser
2022-04-29 19:44:01 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-04-29 19:46:00 +0200dcoutts_(~duncan@host86-155-218-224.range86-155.btcentralplus.com)
2022-04-29 19:46:15 +0200 <exarkun> unfortunately a few people notice
2022-04-29 19:46:28 +0200 <exarkun> and endlessly use its compilation time as an argument against haskell
2022-04-29 19:47:34 +0200 <EvanR> haskell's compiler specifically, yeah, has some non theoretical delay xD
2022-04-29 19:47:36 +0200k8yun(~k8yun@user/k8yun) (Quit: Leaving)
2022-04-29 19:47:49 +0200dextaa4(~dextaa@user/dextaa) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-04-29 19:48:53 +0200 <EvanR> (also linking takes enough time so it basically can't be realtime)
2022-04-29 19:49:04 +0200littlebo1eep(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-04-29 19:49:16 +0200dcoutts__(~duncan@host213-122-143-176.range213-122.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2022-04-29 19:50:00 +0200dextaa4(~dextaa@user/dextaa)
2022-04-29 19:50:19 +0200king_gs(~Thunderbi@2806:103e:29:1f3f:9059:7534:3810:b9c6) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-04-29 19:52:38 +0200king_gs(~Thunderbi@187.201.77.157)
2022-04-29 19:53:11 +0200Logio_Logio
2022-04-29 19:53:37 +0200 <Logio> Haskell packages on Gentoo can be a pain, if the deps update often
2022-04-29 19:54:17 +0200 <apache2> janus: in this case I'd need a hierarchy for each of the contsructors and I'd end up with the same problem once removed
2022-04-29 19:54:20 +0200 <Logio> I actually remember having to get rid of pandoc at some point since it was just too much, every .z release causing hours of rebuilds on an old machine
2022-04-29 19:54:36 +0200mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@213.177.151.239) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-04-29 19:56:23 +0200dextaa4(~dextaa@user/dextaa) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-04-29 19:56:53 +0200 <monochrom> My solution is to not use gentoo.
2022-04-29 19:56:55 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2022-04-29 19:57:25 +0200 <monochrom> But I can see how it even needs to rebuild GHC every 2 months.
2022-04-29 19:58:28 +0200dextaa4(~dextaa@user/dextaa)
2022-04-29 19:59:10 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2022-04-29 19:59:20 +0200dextaa4(~dextaa@user/dextaa) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-04-29 20:00:35 +0200mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@213.177.151.239)
2022-04-29 20:00:42 +0200MajorBiscuit(~MajorBisc@86-88-79-148.fixed.kpn.net) (Quit: WeeChat 3.4)
2022-04-29 20:01:01 +0200dcoutts__(~duncan@host86-151-9-6.range86-151.btcentralplus.com)
2022-04-29 20:01:24 +0200dextaa4(~dextaa@user/dextaa)
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2022-04-29 20:13:02 +0200anomal(~anomal@87.227.196.109)
2022-04-29 20:13:46 +0200king_gs(~Thunderbi@2806:103e:29:1f3f:9059:7534:3810:b9c6)
2022-04-29 20:16:04 +0200littlebobeep(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo)
2022-04-29 20:16:08 +0200zeenk(~zeenk@2a02:2f04:a109:fa00:116f:8f1a:7ce7:cae5) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2022-04-29 20:16:19 +0200xkuru(~xkuru@user/xkuru)
2022-04-29 20:17:06 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-04-29 20:18:03 +0200king_gs(~Thunderbi@2806:103e:29:1f3f:9059:7534:3810:b9c6) (Client Quit)
2022-04-29 20:18:18 +0200king_gs(~Thunderbi@187.201.77.157)
2022-04-29 20:19:56 +0200 <Franciman> how much does it take to compile ghc, Logio ?
2022-04-29 20:20:54 +0200 <EvanR> give your answer in gigaflops
2022-04-29 20:21:19 +0200 <Franciman> LOL
2022-04-29 20:22:20 +0200littlebo1eep(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo)
2022-04-29 20:22:40 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2022-04-29 20:22:46 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-19-191.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2022-04-29 20:23:07 +0200jgeerds(~jgeerds@d53604b0.access.ecotel.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-04-29 20:25:41 +0200arjun(~arjun@user/arjun)
2022-04-29 20:26:04 +0200littlebobeep(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-04-29 20:26:06 +0200 <arjun> hi
2022-04-29 20:26:22 +0200 <arjun> i seem to have 9 workspaces by default
2022-04-29 20:26:38 +0200 <tomsmeding> arjun: #xmonad
2022-04-29 20:26:43 +0200 <arjun> wrongChannelMyBad
2022-04-29 20:26:49 +0200 <tomsmeding> :)
2022-04-29 20:26:58 +0200 <arjun> :)
2022-04-29 20:27:23 +0200 <tomsmeding> @botsnack
2022-04-29 20:27:23 +0200 <lambdabot> :)
2022-04-29 20:27:57 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-19-191.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2022-04-29 20:28:05 +0200 <sm> I also got rid of all references to pandoc source in my projects (eg hakyll sites), now strictly using only prebuilt pandoc binaries
2022-04-29 20:29:58 +0200 <monochrom> xmonad was written by a cat. It has 9 lives, so it wants 9 workspaces by default. :)
2022-04-29 20:30:16 +0200deadmarshal_(~deadmarsh@95.38.119.247)
2022-04-29 20:30:56 +0200 <monochrom> @query lambdabot
2022-04-29 20:30:56 +0200 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
2022-04-29 20:31:20 +0200sprout(~quassel@2a02-a45f-f170-1-dc46-b3e0-ed65-be35.fixed6.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2022-04-29 20:31:21 +0200 <EvanR> xmonad runs on conway's life automaton
2022-04-29 20:31:35 +0200 <EvanR> it's behavior is defined with 9 rules
2022-04-29 20:31:52 +0200 <arjun> i just logged back into xmonad after a week of i3
2022-04-29 20:32:05 +0200 <arjun> is it just me or does it just feel more comfortable
2022-04-29 20:32:20 +0200 <EvanR> never used xmonad sorry
2022-04-29 20:32:24 +0200 <tomsmeding> could it just be what you're used to
2022-04-29 20:32:32 +0200 <arjun> also, font rendering seems a bit sharper in xmonad, it could just be placebo
2022-04-29 20:32:50 +0200 <arjun> tomsmeding, i'm used to xfce :p
2022-04-29 20:33:04 +0200 <EvanR> a good rule of thumb, if you think text rendering improved, it probably didn't
2022-04-29 20:33:24 +0200 <monochrom> I never used i3.
2022-04-29 20:33:41 +0200 <arjun> EvanR, since i moved to thinkpads, i've pretty much dropped my standards for sharpness
2022-04-29 20:33:50 +0200 <arjun> i'll take anything on that matter
2022-04-29 20:33:50 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2022-04-29 20:33:52 +0200dh97(~dh97@2401:4900:16ef:2167:a3b2:ae61:ac0b:1718)
2022-04-29 20:34:12 +0200 <tomsmeding> I recently put i3 on my work laptop (had ubuntu WM) because between ubuntu's gnome derivative, pure gnome, and i3, i3 was the only one that didn't drop to 1FPS when connecting an external monitor
2022-04-29 20:34:19 +0200 <tomsmeding> and no I have no idea what's going on there
2022-04-29 20:34:41 +0200 <geekosaur> compositing?
2022-04-29 20:34:49 +0200 <tomsmeding> 🤔
2022-04-29 20:35:02 +0200 <tomsmeding> embarassing if true
2022-04-29 20:36:16 +0200 <geekosaur> compositing will always be slower, even if accelerated by e.g. opengl. that said, I wouldn't expect it to be *that* slow unless it's e.g. newer versions of picom that have lots of unnecessary calls in their hot path
2022-04-29 20:36:24 +0200 <geekosaur> but gnome doesn't use picom
2022-04-29 20:36:35 +0200 <tomsmeding> no it was really <1FPS, I'm not exaggerating
2022-04-29 20:36:49 +0200 <tomsmeding> so if it's the compositor, there's still something _really_ wrong
2022-04-29 20:37:03 +0200littlebo2eep(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo)
2022-04-29 20:37:57 +0200hexfive(~eric@50.35.83.177)
2022-04-29 20:37:58 +0200king_gs(~Thunderbi@187.201.77.157) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-04-29 20:38:11 +0200 <arjun> tomsmeding, were you running crysis in the background?
2022-04-29 20:38:22 +0200 <tomsmeding> no, just ubuntu
2022-04-29 20:38:30 +0200 <tomsmeding> dunno, maybe that's enough
2022-04-29 20:38:35 +0200 <arjun> then it's weird
2022-04-29 20:39:31 +0200Flonk(~Flonk@vps-zap441517-1.zap-srv.com) (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds))
2022-04-29 20:39:39 +0200 <tomsmeding> feels slightly slower in i3+picom than plain i3, but nowhere as bad as ubuntu wm
2022-04-29 20:39:52 +0200Flonk(~Flonk@vps-zap441517-1.zap-srv.com)
2022-04-29 20:40:09 +0200 <tomsmeding> in any case this is heavily offtopic lol
2022-04-29 20:40:22 +0200king_gs(~Thunderbi@2806:103e:29:1f3f:9059:7534:3810:b9c6)
2022-04-29 20:40:34 +0200littlebo1eep(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-04-29 20:40:34 +0200redb(~nmh@136.49.49.211) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2022-04-29 20:41:41 +0200redb(~nmh@136.49.49.211)
2022-04-29 20:42:02 +0200 <mrianbloom> Let's say I
2022-04-29 20:42:53 +0200 <mrianbloom> I- I'm modeling an object oriented system. And there are objects called Entitys and parameters called properties.
2022-04-29 20:43:47 +0200 <mrianbloom> I want to use the type system in Haskell to enforce that I can never add a certain property to an entity unless it's know to contain that property.
2022-04-29 20:43:54 +0200 <mrianbloom> *known
2022-04-29 20:43:59 +0200 <EvanR> I'm modeling a database system. And there are objects called Tables and parameters called columns xD
2022-04-29 20:44:07 +0200 <mrianbloom> :)
2022-04-29 20:44:45 +0200 <EvanR> (table would be a class of objects, instances would be rows)
2022-04-29 20:44:51 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2022-04-29 20:44:51 +0200 <mrianbloom> Is the best way to enforce property ownership, to do it with multiparameter typeclasses?
2022-04-29 20:46:06 +0200 <mrianbloom> For example if I have a function addProp :: SomeProperty -> SomeEntity -> SomeEntity
2022-04-29 20:46:16 +0200redb(~nmh@136.49.49.211) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2022-04-29 20:47:09 +0200 <mrianbloom> And each of those types is a GADT that describes which type of entity and which type of property.
2022-04-29 20:47:46 +0200 <mrianbloom> Many properties are shared by various entities.
2022-04-29 20:47:51 +0200 <monochrom> I don't know what means "entity", "property", "add property to entity", and worst of all "add property to entity but the entity must have that property in the first place" if I already know Haskell why would you add the property "knows Haskell" to me?
2022-04-29 20:48:31 +0200 <monochrom> This is why people should either do denotational design or write down typing rules.
2022-04-29 20:48:52 +0200 <mrianbloom> Good point. Lets say the function is modifyProperty :: (SomeProperty -> SomeProperty) -> SomeEntity -> SomeEntity
2022-04-29 20:49:16 +0200 <tomsmeding> can different entities have the same property?
2022-04-29 20:49:23 +0200 <mrianbloom> Yes
2022-04-29 20:49:36 +0200 <tomsmeding> that's not like any OO system I know, but then maybe it's smalltalk, I don't know smalltalk
2022-04-29 20:49:53 +0200redb(~nmh@136.49.49.211)
2022-04-29 20:50:00 +0200 <EvanR> the rule was "the operation is only well typed if the objects happens to already have that property"
2022-04-29 20:50:10 +0200 <mrianbloom> I'm writing a haskell API for a OO system basically.
2022-04-29 20:50:13 +0200 <EvanR> which is a dynamic circumstance and is not going to be easy to encode
2022-04-29 20:50:44 +0200 <mrianbloom> Ownership of a property is static depending on the type of entity.
2022-04-29 20:50:51 +0200 <monochrom> OK so, lens?
2022-04-29 20:50:53 +0200 <EvanR> Like I was saying earlier I think it's easier if you decide ahead of time what has what properties
2022-04-29 20:50:55 +0200 <geekosaur> you can encode that with a type level list, but that's going to be pretty hideous to work with
2022-04-29 20:51:19 +0200 <mrianbloom> I see. I'll look into those.
2022-04-29 20:51:51 +0200 <tomsmeding> mrianbloom: why is an entity not just a record with a bunch of properties as fields? Is it really essential that different entities have the _same_ property thing?
2022-04-29 20:52:06 +0200 <EvanR> to share field names among different object types, that's AOL keyword "extensible records"
2022-04-29 20:52:35 +0200 <EvanR> which can be implemented with heterolists but yeah tricky business (in haskell)
2022-04-29 20:53:29 +0200 <EvanR> practically you may get more milage not sharing the concept of Property among different types
2022-04-29 20:53:46 +0200 <EvanR> and may find it's doesn't really help anyway
2022-04-29 20:54:18 +0200redb(~nmh@136.49.49.211) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2022-04-29 20:54:19 +0200dh97(~dh97@2401:4900:16ef:2167:a3b2:ae61:ac0b:1718) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-04-29 20:54:43 +0200littlebo1eep(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo)
2022-04-29 20:55:10 +0200 <EvanR> it is still possible to name the fields of different types the same, using the module system and qualified names
2022-04-29 20:55:22 +0200 <mrianbloom> tomsmeding: I'm actually encoding a series of operations that are fed to a server so the objects I'm manipulating are not in haskell, and I'm just hoping to determine if an operation is legal on the type level before I encode it.
2022-04-29 20:55:37 +0200 <tomsmeding> I see
2022-04-29 20:56:03 +0200 <tomsmeding> yeah then a multi-param type class might be an idea, like 'class HasProp entity property'
2022-04-29 20:56:20 +0200 <tomsmeding> depending on how type-safe you want to make this, the class need not even have any methods
2022-04-29 20:56:34 +0200littlebo2eep(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-04-29 20:56:41 +0200 <tomsmeding> an empty class is just a relation between types, where the (empty) instances are the axioms of the relation
2022-04-29 20:56:49 +0200 <mrianbloom> Right. The multi-param type class just feels odd.
2022-04-29 20:57:06 +0200 <tomsmeding> because it's empty, because it's multi-param, or because this feels like the wrong place to use a type class?
2022-04-29 20:57:09 +0200redb(~nmh@136.49.49.211)
2022-04-29 20:57:33 +0200zaquest(~notzaques@5.130.79.72) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-04-29 20:58:14 +0200 <tomsmeding> I mean, another option would be to have a type family that maps an entity type to a type-level list of the properties that it contains, but I doubt whether that's actually more useful in practice than the type class approach
2022-04-29 20:58:15 +0200 <mrianbloom> Well for example the user of my API will get an unineilligible error message.
2022-04-29 20:58:56 +0200 <EvanR> such as, no instance HasProp MiddleName Employee
2022-04-29 20:58:56 +0200 <mrianbloom> ...with the multiparameter method.
2022-04-29 20:59:41 +0200 <EvanR> I guess "Employee has no property MiddleName" is more humane
2022-04-29 20:59:54 +0200littlebo3eep(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo)
2022-04-29 21:00:04 +0200littlebo1eep(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-04-29 21:00:05 +0200 <tomsmeding> mrianbloom: "No instance for (Has E2 P1) arising from a use of ‘foo’" -- seems an okay error message
2022-04-29 21:00:18 +0200 <tomsmeding> https://play-haskell.tomsmeding.com/play/paste/NS25TEFY/1
2022-04-29 21:00:32 +0200 <mrianbloom> Seems pretty good actually.
2022-04-29 21:00:44 +0200 <mrianbloom> It is a constraint after all.
2022-04-29 21:01:37 +0200 <EvanR> also, could customized type error messages be used
2022-04-29 21:01:45 +0200redb(~nmh@136.49.49.211) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-04-29 21:02:16 +0200 <mrianbloom> That's possible. I was looking for how to write those, I've seen them before in the CLUtil api
2022-04-29 21:02:45 +0200 <maerwald> finally, neovim fixed the Ctrl+i vs tab debacle and I can switch
2022-04-29 21:02:46 +0200redb(~nmh@136.49.49.211)
2022-04-29 21:03:08 +0200 <tomsmeding> EvanR: mrianbloom: https://play-haskell.tomsmeding.com/play/paste/m4FbUm2A/1
2022-04-29 21:03:32 +0200 <tomsmeding> it's nice, but requires a bunch of language extensions that would otherwise be unnecessary, and it's not even _that_ huge of an improvement IMO
2022-04-29 21:04:26 +0200 <mrianbloom> That's pretty great though. I'll give it a shot and see how annoying the extensions are.
2022-04-29 21:04:34 +0200jpds(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-04-29 21:04:34 +0200 <mrianbloom> Thank you.
2022-04-29 21:06:47 +0200redb(~nmh@136.49.49.211) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-04-29 21:07:08 +0200 <tomsmeding> maerwald: what was the debacle
2022-04-29 21:07:13 +0200jpds(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds)
2022-04-29 21:07:27 +0200 <maerwald> tomsmeding: it wouldn't distinguish them and they debated on how to fix it for 5 years
2022-04-29 21:07:27 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2022-04-29 21:07:50 +0200 <tomsmeding> how _do_ you distinguish them
2022-04-29 21:08:02 +0200 <geekosaur> in a gui environment they're distinct
2022-04-29 21:08:04 +0200 <maerwald> well, for GUIs it's pretty obvious... it couldn't even do that
2022-04-29 21:08:09 +0200 <tomsmeding> ah I see
2022-04-29 21:08:17 +0200tomsmedingwas thinking about a terminal environment
2022-04-29 21:08:30 +0200 <maerwald> now they use CSI u
2022-04-29 21:08:58 +0200 <maerwald> so you have to teach your terminal now to send the CSI u keycode for Ctrl+i
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2022-04-29 22:20:46 +0200jgeerds(~jgeerds@d53604b0.access.ecotel.net)
2022-04-29 22:23:28 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2022-04-29 22:24:38 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-19-191.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2022-04-29 22:25:37 +0200dextaa4(~dextaa@user/dextaa) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-04-29 22:27:03 +0200stackdroid18(14094@user/stackdroid)
2022-04-29 22:27:34 +0200littlebobeep(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-04-29 22:28:22 +0200kaph(~kaph@net-2-42-128-205.cust.vodafonedsl.it)
2022-04-29 22:29:01 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-19-191.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-04-29 22:31:46 +0200littlebobeep(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo)
2022-04-29 22:31:57 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2022-04-29 22:34:10 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2022-04-29 22:36:05 +0200zebrag(~chris@user/zebrag)
2022-04-29 22:42:35 +0200pavonia(~user@user/siracusa)
2022-04-29 22:44:33 +0200coot(~coot@213.134.190.95)
2022-04-29 22:49:11 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2022-04-29 22:51:34 +0200littlebobeep(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-04-29 22:51:35 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@2001:999:504:1dda:267d:6860:bdf7:f68b) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-04-29 22:52:11 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a8-176.dhcp.inet.fi)
2022-04-29 22:52:48 +0200mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@213.177.151.239) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2022-04-29 22:53:03 +0200dostoevsky9(~5c42c5384@user/dostoevsky)
2022-04-29 22:54:39 +0200dostoevsky(~5c42c5384@user/dostoevsky) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-04-29 22:54:39 +0200dostoevsky9dostoevsky
2022-04-29 22:55:59 +0200random-jellyfish(~random-je@user/random-jellyfish)
2022-04-29 22:56:24 +0200king_gs(~Thunderbi@187.201.77.157)
2022-04-29 22:57:24 +0200smitop2(uid328768@id-328768.tinside.irccloud.com)
2022-04-29 22:59:34 +0200jpds(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-04-29 23:00:29 +0200michalz(~michalz@185.246.204.109) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-04-29 23:01:40 +0200jpds(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds)
2022-04-29 23:02:42 +0200jmdaemon(~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon)
2022-04-29 23:02:57 +0200yous(~Polo@user/polo) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2022-04-29 23:03:41 +0200littlebobeep(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo)
2022-04-29 23:05:24 +0200__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving)
2022-04-29 23:06:15 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2022-04-29 23:09:34 +0200littlebobeep(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-04-29 23:10:50 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2022-04-29 23:19:34 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2022-04-29 23:23:25 +0200deadmarshal_(~deadmarsh@95.38.119.247) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-04-29 23:24:45 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2022-04-29 23:24:48 +0200darkling(~darkling@2001-ba8-1f1-f0e6-0-0-0-2.autov6rev.bitfolk.space)
2022-04-29 23:35:21 +0200takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-04-29 23:51:34 +0200jargon(~jargon@174-22-206-112.phnx.qwest.net)
2022-04-29 23:55:41 +0200littlebobeep(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo)
2022-04-29 23:58:29 +0200littlebobeep(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Remote host closed the connection)