2022/04/20

2022-04-20 00:00:00 +0200 <nihilazo> I tried learning before from "real-world haskell" but found myself feeling like I was fighting against haskell's type system instead of really grokking it
2022-04-20 00:00:02 +0200Pickchea(~private@user/pickchea) (Quit: Leaving)
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2022-04-20 00:04:49 +0200agumonkey(~user@88.163.231.79)
2022-04-20 00:05:26 +0200 <geekosaur> RWH is perhaps notthe best for a beginner, it's more of an intermediate book I think
2022-04-20 00:05:36 +0200hyiltiz(~quassel@31.220.5.250)
2022-04-20 00:05:45 +0200DNH(~DNH@2a02:8109:b740:2c4:39b1:39b8:aa61:2e31)
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2022-04-20 00:06:03 +0200kaph(~kaph@151.19.233.38)
2022-04-20 00:06:05 +0200 <geekosaur> LYAH… is okay if you can find some exercises to do along with it; otherwise it's kinda the "grand tour", you can mostly read code after it but not really write it
2022-04-20 00:06:17 +0200 <geekosaur> currently we prefer something like
2022-04-20 00:06:20 +0200 <geekosaur> @where cis194
2022-04-20 00:06:21 +0200 <lambdabot> https://www.seas.upenn.edu/~cis194/spring13/lectures.html
2022-04-20 00:06:55 +0200slack1256(~slack1256@191.125.99.208) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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2022-04-20 00:12:22 +0200zeenk(~zeenk@2a02:2f04:a313:d600:8d26:ec9f:3ff6:fc94) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2022-04-20 00:12:38 +0200 <geekosaur> I can't think of anything specifically for folks who know some FP but not strong typing or laziness
2022-04-20 00:13:19 +0200 <geekosaur> closest I can think of is the old "Gentle Introduction" but that still assumes strong typing / SML background
2022-04-20 00:17:49 +0200 <sm> there's no universal "best", but how about
2022-04-20 00:17:49 +0200 <sm> @where HTAC
2022-04-20 00:17:50 +0200 <lambdabot> "Haskell Tutorial and Cookbook" by Mark Watson in 2017-09-04 at <https://leanpub.com/haskell-cookbook>
2022-04-20 00:17:57 +0200redb(~nmh@136.49.49.211) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2022-04-20 00:19:24 +0200 <sm> @where books
2022-04-20 00:19:24 +0200 <sm> has the rest, if not
2022-04-20 00:19:24 +0200cosimone(~user@2001:b07:ae5:db26:c24a:d20:4d91:1e20) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-04-20 00:19:24 +0200 <lambdabot> https://www.extrema.is/articles/haskell-books, see also @where LYAH, RWH, YAHT, SOE, HR, PIH, TFwH, wikibook, PCPH, HPFFP, HTAC, TwT, FoP, PFAD, WYAH, non-haskell-books
2022-04-20 00:20:01 +0200deadmarshal_(~deadmarsh@95.38.114.27)
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2022-04-20 00:23:10 +0200 <geekosaur> @where TwT
2022-04-20 00:23:10 +0200 <lambdabot> "Thinking with Types: Type-Level Programming in Haskell" by Sandy Maguire in 2019-01-10 at <https://leanpub.com/thinking-with-types>
2022-04-20 00:23:16 +0200 <geekosaur> hm, no
2022-04-20 00:24:00 +0200redb(~nmh@136.49.49.211)
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2022-04-20 00:28:08 +0200redb(~nmh@136.49.49.211) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2022-04-20 00:29:04 +0200 <Las[m]> Does anyone know whether there's literature on what sound restrictions would be on overlapping instances to ensure coherence?
2022-04-20 00:29:57 +0200redb(~nmh@136.49.49.211)
2022-04-20 00:31:31 +0200statusbot1(~statusbot@ec2-34-198-122-184.compute-1.amazonaws.com)
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2022-04-20 00:31:47 +0200merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-001.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl)
2022-04-20 00:32:02 +0200 <geekosaur> hm, I didn't think coherence was the problem, just an inability to guarantee that the intended instance would be chosen in some module which used the class but didn't have all instances in scope?
2022-04-20 00:32:27 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-98.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.)
2022-04-20 00:33:14 +0200 <Las[m]> Is that possible in the absence of orphan instances?
2022-04-20 00:33:32 +0200 <Las[m]> https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/html/users_guide/exts/instances.html?highlight=overl… has an example of incoherence
2022-04-20 00:34:32 +0200redb(~nmh@136.49.49.211) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2022-04-20 00:34:35 +0200 <geekosaur> sure. you don't have to have all instances known at a use site. something that uses fmap doesn't have to know every possible Functor instance
2022-04-20 00:36:06 +0200 <Las[m]> well what would the sound restriction be then?
2022-04-20 00:36:25 +0200 <Las[m]> If possible I want to implement checks in GHC to allow coherent use of overlapping instances
2022-04-20 00:37:34 +0200 <geekosaur> well, that would be an exampleof what I said
2022-04-20 00:37:52 +0200 <geekosaur> I suppose that does mean incoherence, hm
2022-04-20 00:44:18 +0200n3t(~n3t@user/n3t) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
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2022-04-20 00:58:19 +0200DNH(~DNH@2a02:8109:b740:2c4:39b1:39b8:aa61:2e31)
2022-04-20 01:00:14 +0200redb(~nmh@136.49.49.211)
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2022-04-20 01:09:03 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-27-3.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2022-04-20 01:10:12 +0200cosimone(~user@2001:b07:ae5:db26:c24a:d20:4d91:1e20) (Quit: ERC 5.4 (IRC client for GNU Emacs 28.1))
2022-04-20 01:12:47 +0200bitmapper(uid464869@id-464869.lymington.irccloud.com)
2022-04-20 01:13:31 +0200 <shapr> category theory joke: what makes everything feel good? an endorphism
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2022-04-20 01:21:54 +0200Guest99(~Guest99@187.105.124.126)
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2022-04-20 01:25:23 +0200bgs_bgs
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2022-04-20 01:26:03 +0200DNH(~DNH@2a02:8109:b740:2c4:39b1:39b8:aa61:2e31) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2022-04-20 01:26:56 +0200 <hpc> that pun made me want to yawneda
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2022-04-20 01:33:50 +0200rsify[m](~rsifymatr@2001:470:69fc:105::1:fd44)
2022-04-20 01:34:21 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@24.105.81.50)
2022-04-20 01:35:41 +0200 <EvanR> ggVGc, cheers, good to see you survived the freenode-a-lypse
2022-04-20 01:37:11 +0200 <EvanR> so I'm about to mix makefiles and cabal
2022-04-20 01:37:22 +0200 <EvanR> if I'm not back in 30 minutes you know what to do
2022-04-20 01:37:45 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex)
2022-04-20 01:37:58 +0200 <sm> what happened poor Freenode since, anyway
2022-04-20 01:38:05 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@206-55-188-8.fttp.usinternet.com)
2022-04-20 01:38:05 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@206-55-188-8.fttp.usinternet.com) (Changing host)
2022-04-20 01:38:05 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe)
2022-04-20 01:38:28 +0200 <sm> looks like a reddit now
2022-04-20 01:40:34 +0200 <EvanR> a reddit-class soul destroyer
2022-04-20 01:48:36 +0200allbery_b(~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur)
2022-04-20 01:48:41 +0200geekosaur(~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by allbery_b)))
2022-04-20 01:48:49 +0200Midjak(~Midjak@82.66.147.146)
2022-04-20 01:50:25 +0200 <Axman6> nihilazo: was there anything in particular you felt you were getting stuck on?
2022-04-20 01:53:39 +0200 <Axman6> ... wtf? what on earth did they do?
2022-04-20 01:56:17 +0200geekosaur(~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur)
2022-04-20 01:56:25 +0200 <Axman6> Clicked on "Node of the day" on freenode... and it's an empty... subreddit? what the actual fuck are they doing, this is so bad. it's just a bunch of job ads for cryptocurrency and conspiracies?
2022-04-20 01:56:35 +0200 <EvanR> be the first to post in /n/lilo
2022-04-20 01:57:05 +0200 <Axman6> New Post: What the flip is LILO?
2022-04-20 01:57:20 +0200 <Axman6> all these subreddit things were created by [Deleted]
2022-04-20 01:57:45 +0200Midjak(~Midjak@82.66.147.146) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2022-04-20 01:58:00 +0200 <EvanR> lilo was the founder of freenode
2022-04-20 01:58:10 +0200 <Axman6> Deleted a comment with reason "shane" <- haha, wtdf
2022-04-20 01:58:13 +0200 <Axman6> wtf*
2022-04-20 01:58:20 +0200 <Axman6> https://freenode.net/n/conspiracy/sublog
2022-04-20 01:59:02 +0200waleee(~waleee@h-155-4-221-82.NA.cust.bahnhof.se) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2022-04-20 01:59:07 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-04-20 01:59:26 +0200 <Axman6> ... their equivalent of reddit's karma, and I swear I'm not making this up, is called "Phuks given"
2022-04-20 01:59:28 +0200allbery_b(~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2022-04-20 02:00:02 +0200rsify[m]rsify
2022-04-20 02:00:21 +0200 <Axman6> Deleted a post with reason "goats"
2022-04-20 02:00:28 +0200 <geekosaur> deddit
2022-04-20 02:03:22 +0200Natch(~natch@c-9e07225c.038-60-73746f7.bbcust.telenor.se) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2022-04-20 02:04:56 +0200rsify(~rsifymatr@2001:470:69fc:105::1:fd44) (Quit: Reconnecting)
2022-04-20 02:05:03 +0200 <Axman6> Ha, they even have their own self trolling sub: https://freenode.net/n/pissnet/hot
2022-04-20 02:05:10 +0200rsify(~rsify@2001:470:69fc:105::1:fd44)
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2022-04-20 02:17:55 +0200rsify(~rsify@2001:470:69fc:105::1:fd44) (Quit: Reconnecting)
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2022-04-20 02:21:06 +0200JordiGH(~jordi@user/jordigh)
2022-04-20 02:22:39 +0200redb(~nmh@136.49.49.211) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-04-20 02:27:10 +0200 <janus> can libera.chat can be bigger than freenode ever was? then, was it so bad freenode went crazy?
2022-04-20 02:29:18 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) (Error from remote client)
2022-04-20 02:33:48 +0200vysn(~vysn@user/vysn)
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2022-04-20 02:34:25 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net)
2022-04-20 02:35:32 +0200 <sm> of course it can, and yes it was bad for eg consuming a lot of time and energy, but maybe libera and foss communities have had some useful cleanup, for one
2022-04-20 02:40:38 +0200TheCoffeMaker(~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2022-04-20 02:42:18 +0200TheCoffeMaker(~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker)
2022-04-20 02:42:44 +0200vicfred(~vicfred@user/vicfred) (Quit: Leaving)
2022-04-20 02:44:18 +0200 <sm> though actually, with matrix etc, it might not reach that size again
2022-04-20 02:44:50 +0200redb(~nmh@136.49.49.211)
2022-04-20 02:49:34 +0200 <abastro[m]> Matrix could be bridged right?
2022-04-20 02:50:07 +0200redb(~nmh@136.49.49.211) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-04-20 02:51:56 +0200 <sm> yup, I'm speaking to you over a bridge
2022-04-20 02:52:20 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@24.105.81.50) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2022-04-20 02:53:03 +0200AndrewYuAndrew
2022-04-20 02:54:22 +0200TheCoffeMaker(~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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2022-04-20 02:56:21 +0200TheCoffeMaker(~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker)
2022-04-20 02:56:24 +0200 <sclv> if you think that matrix is better than irc, buddy ive got a bridge to sell you
2022-04-20 02:56:39 +0200perrierj1(~perrier-j@modemcable012.251-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-04-20 02:56:55 +0200 <abastro[m]> XD
2022-04-20 02:58:59 +0200 <sm> it's better in lots of ways. Not all
2022-04-20 02:59:30 +0200 <sm> nice that we have at least two great alternatives to proprietary chat
2022-04-20 03:02:31 +0200merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-001.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl)
2022-04-20 03:03:24 +0200abastro(~abab9579@220.75.216.63)
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2022-04-20 03:05:46 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2022-04-20 03:06:06 +0200 <abastro> To put '.' on the end of the comment sentence or not, that is the question(.)
2022-04-20 03:07:51 +0200redb(~nmh@136.49.49.211)
2022-04-20 03:07:55 +0200 <sm> Indeed! And, to use correct grammar, punctuation and capitalisation at all times ? The folks who do this impress me.
2022-04-20 03:18:43 +0200hexemeldlework
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2022-04-20 03:24:10 +0200zebrag(~chris@user/zebrag) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2022-04-20 03:29:54 +0200xff0x_(~xff0x@125x102x200x106.ap125.ftth.ucom.ne.jp)
2022-04-20 03:32:13 +0200 <abastro> Exactly!
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2022-04-20 03:41:00 +0200infinity0(~infinity0@185.112.146.113) (Killed (strontium.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services)))
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2022-04-20 03:43:48 +0200sm[i](~user@plaintextaccounting/sm)
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2022-04-20 04:41:08 +0200alphabeta(~kilolympu@31.205.200.235) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-04-20 04:54:23 +0200[Leary](~Leary]@122-58-90-96-vdsl.sparkbb.co.nz)
2022-04-20 04:54:45 +0200chenqisu1(~chenqisu1@183.217.200.38)
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2022-04-20 04:58:23 +0200abastro(~abab9579@220.75.216.63)
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2022-04-20 05:07:12 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex)
2022-04-20 05:22:21 +0200stackdroid18(~stackdroi@user/stackdroid) (Quit: hasta la vista... tchau!)
2022-04-20 05:22:38 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2022-04-20 05:25:50 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@206-55-188-8.fttp.usinternet.com)
2022-04-20 05:25:50 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@206-55-188-8.fttp.usinternet.com) (Changing host)
2022-04-20 05:25:50 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe)
2022-04-20 05:30:29 +0200abastro(~abab9579@220.75.216.63) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-04-20 05:33:51 +0200Natch(~natch@c-9e07225c.038-60-73746f7.bbcust.telenor.se)
2022-04-20 05:56:47 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@2001:999:504:1dda:267d:6860:bdf7:f68b) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-04-20 05:57:08 +0200 <jerry99> hmm, freenode still exists, I thought it died. same channels too
2022-04-20 05:57:12 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a8-176.dhcp.inet.fi)
2022-04-20 06:02:27 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-04-20 06:04:14 +0200 <Axman6> it "exists" but last I saw had nearly no users at all
2022-04-20 06:04:48 +0200 <jerry99> just idlers from what I'm seeing
2022-04-20 06:06:22 +0200 <EvanR> freenode, a classical existence
2022-04-20 06:11:14 +0200mtjm(~mutantmel@2604:a880:2:d0::208b:d001) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-04-20 06:11:33 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2022-04-20 06:11:52 +0200mtjm(~mutantmel@2604:a880:2:d0::208b:d001)
2022-04-20 06:12:03 +0200 <sm> a cautionary tale
2022-04-20 06:12:31 +0200 <sm> a monument to hubris and sloppy governance
2022-04-20 06:13:27 +0200cdman(~dcm@27.2.218.254)
2022-04-20 06:13:27 +0200cdman(~dcm@27.2.218.254) (Changing host)
2022-04-20 06:13:27 +0200cdman(~dcm@user/dmc/x-4369397)
2022-04-20 06:13:37 +0200smimagines a buried city in the desert
2022-04-20 06:13:53 +0200 <Axman6> The doublespeak that was going on from... I've forgotten his name... at the time was astounding
2022-04-20 06:14:55 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10)
2022-04-20 06:15:17 +0200 <Axman6> the stuff he's put on irc.com now is just as bad
2022-04-20 06:16:00 +0200sammelweis_(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2022-04-20 06:18:31 +0200slack1256(~slack1256@191.126.99.208)
2022-04-20 06:29:50 +0200merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-001.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl)
2022-04-20 06:34:07 +0200rekahsoft(~rekahsoft@cpe001b21a2fd89-cm64777ddc63a0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
2022-04-20 06:34:47 +0200zyklotomic(~ethan@res380d-128-61-84-196.res.gatech.edu)
2022-04-20 06:35:16 +0200 <zyklotomic> apologies if my google-fu isn't good enough, is https://hackage.haskell.org/package/random-1.2.1/docs/System-Random.html#v:mkStdGen determinstic across platforms?
2022-04-20 06:36:33 +0200 <Axman6> According to the source it's just mkStdGen = StdGen . SM.mkSMGen . fromIntegral
2022-04-20 06:36:40 +0200abastro(~abab9579@220.75.216.63)
2022-04-20 06:37:17 +0200 <Axman6> which uses https://hackage.haskell.org/package/splitmix-0.1.0.4/docs/System-Random-SplitMix.html#v:mkSMGen
2022-04-20 06:37:25 +0200 <Axman6> "Preferred way to deterministically construct SMGen."
2022-04-20 06:37:37 +0200 <zyklotomic> ah yup, i'm on https://hackage.haskell.org/package/splitmix too
2022-04-20 06:38:09 +0200 <zyklotomic> i see, thank you so much for confirming
2022-04-20 06:40:19 +0200merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-001.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2022-04-20 10:22:49 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex)
2022-04-20 10:23:07 +0200 <ggVGc> EvanR: I'm expecting to be on IRC for life :) Also, I'm expecting to write Makefiles for life...
2022-04-20 10:23:13 +0200 <ggVGc> not all of those things are good things
2022-04-20 10:23:30 +0200 <juri_> ggVGc: I compile haskell with a Makefile. ;)
2022-04-20 10:25:20 +0200 <ggVGc> as in, you call ghc directly? Sounds cumbersome
2022-04-20 10:25:25 +0200 <ggVGc> Why do you need to do that?
2022-04-20 10:25:53 +0200 <abastro> Thought I could use `Makefile` to call cabal as well
2022-04-20 10:25:59 +0200acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d0c722df42d024b6b501c38e3e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-04-20 10:26:03 +0200 <abastro> Guess that is impossible?
2022-04-20 10:26:37 +0200gurkenglas(~gurkengla@dslb-178-012-018-212.178.012.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
2022-04-20 10:27:02 +0200 <ggVGc> I mean, you can use make to call anything, as makefiles can just be used as "task runners". But that's not really using make for what it is
2022-04-20 10:27:14 +0200 <ggVGc> People abuse make as a task runner all the time
2022-04-20 10:27:30 +0200 <ggVGc> if you call cabal from a makefile, then cabal is still the build system
2022-04-20 10:30:20 +0200 <abastro> Ah I misinterpreted that part
2022-04-20 10:34:44 +0200derelict(~derelict@user/derelict) (Quit: bye)
2022-04-20 10:35:58 +0200derelict(~derelict@user/derelict)
2022-04-20 10:36:22 +0200jgeerds(~jgeerds@d53604b0.access.ecotel.net)
2022-04-20 10:37:42 +0200 <juri_> ggVGc: I call cabal.
2022-04-20 10:38:24 +0200 <juri_> which is still painful. i grumble about it, and write dumb make stuff to work around cabal's duplicate information requirements.
2022-04-20 10:40:14 +0200 <juri_> https://github.com/Haskell-Things/HSlice/blob/master/Makefile , if one wants to stare.
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2022-04-20 10:41:52 +0200loonycyborg_(loonycybor@chat.chantal.wesnoth.org) (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
2022-04-20 10:42:23 +0200loonycyborg(loonycybor@wesnoth/developer/loonycyborg)
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2022-04-20 10:53:15 +0200abastro<del>being dumb & writes Haskell script for this</del>
2022-04-20 10:56:16 +0200mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@213.177.151.239)
2022-04-20 10:59:16 +0200odnes(~odnes@5-203-181-172.pat.nym.cosmote.net)
2022-04-20 10:59:41 +0200 <Hecate> .2
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2022-04-20 12:43:22 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a8-176.dhcp.inet.fi) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-04-20 12:43:23 +0200wybpip[m](~wybpipmat@2001:470:69fc:105::1:f452)
2022-04-20 12:43:28 +0200wybpip[m](~wybpipmat@2001:470:69fc:105::1:f452) ()
2022-04-20 12:45:12 +0200sprout(~quassel@2a02-a45f-f170-1-48ac-15ef-e810-76d0.fixed6.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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2022-04-20 12:45:48 +0200merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-001.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl)
2022-04-20 12:49:31 +0200 <abastro[m]> What could I use to read a file alike stock `Read` instance reads?
2022-04-20 12:50:14 +0200 <abastro[m]> The stock Read class is quite cumbersome (No error messages, constrained to String), but its format is beautiful
2022-04-20 12:50:42 +0200 <abastro[m]> So I'd like to know how.
2022-04-20 12:51:10 +0200redb(~nmh@136.49.49.211)
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2022-04-20 13:04:04 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex)
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2022-04-20 13:46:05 +0200razetime(~quassel@117.254.34.234)
2022-04-20 13:46:38 +0200 <razetime> is haskell matchmaker being hosted online somewhere?
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2022-04-20 15:52:21 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
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2022-04-20 16:01:05 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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2022-04-20 16:20:55 +0200rekahsoft(~rekahsoft@cpe001b21a2fd89-cm64777ddc63a0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
2022-04-20 16:22:02 +0200 <juri_> hey, how do i get my quickcheck tests of pure code to parallelize across multiple cores? -j, it and +RTS -N is doing nothing.
2022-04-20 16:22:56 +0200 <mastarija> Can maybe someone take a quick look at my type derivation tree for a simple program? I'm not sure I'm passing extended context correctly.
2022-04-20 16:22:59 +0200 <mastarija> https://pastebin.com/e4f7SvEh
2022-04-20 16:23:06 +0200 <geekosaur> wouldn't you have to use `par`?
2022-04-20 16:23:56 +0200 <juri_> geekosaur: i was hoping they would come up with N random value sets, then call N copies of my code.
2022-04-20 16:24:21 +0200 <geekosaur> I think QC is not smart enough to do that
2022-04-20 16:25:18 +0200 <mastarija> The inference rules in question : https://imagebin.ca/v/6ePRnUrxveXy
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2022-04-20 16:30:07 +0200zeenk(~zeenk@2a02:2f04:a313:d600:8d26:ec9f:3ff6:fc94) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2022-04-20 16:31:01 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Quit: = "")
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2022-04-20 16:41:01 +0200slack1256(~slack1256@191.125.227.87)
2022-04-20 16:45:00 +0200 <slack1256> Has anyone used the FFI to call function that should be run on a realtime scheduler?
2022-04-20 16:45:37 +0200 <merijn> No, but depending on the details of what you mean, that's either easy or impossible :p
2022-04-20 16:45:53 +0200bahamas(~lucian@84.232.140.158)
2022-04-20 16:47:39 +0200 <slack1256> I did a C program to read output from a digital scale chip (HX711). When reading bit-for-bit I got to respect some timings. Each reading is no longer that 100 micro sec.
2022-04-20 16:48:33 +0200 <slack1256> I want to integrate that on a larger haskell program, I though about using the FFI. Do you see this as difficult? I can always "fork and pipe" to get the result back.
2022-04-20 16:48:39 +0200 <merijn> slack1256: I'm pretty sure the POSIX realtime extensions are on a per-thread level, no?
2022-04-20 16:49:18 +0200 <merijn> slack1256: You can always just fire up a new POSIX threat from Haskell and set things up there (or call a C function that sets up the pthread correctly)
2022-04-20 16:49:52 +0200 <merijn> slack1256: To be pedantic: You can never *fork* and pipe, creating a new subprocess and pipe is reasonable, though
2022-04-20 16:50:06 +0200albet70(~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-04-20 16:51:24 +0200 <slack1256> merijn: I think you are right, realtime scheduling seems to be process oriented. Having it at thread level would lead to priority inversion.
2022-04-20 16:51:56 +0200 <merijn> slack1256: OS level scheduling happens at the thread level
2022-04-20 16:52:30 +0200 <merijn> Even if GHC's runtime/threading supported realtime (it doesn't), the OS could randomly suspend your thread and you'd miss the deadline
2022-04-20 16:52:37 +0200 <c_wraith> merijn: "You can always just fire up a new POSIX threat from Haskell" I'm not a huge fan of POSIX either, but that seems excessive. :P
2022-04-20 16:52:40 +0200sprout(~quassel@2a02-a45f-f170-1-48ac-15ef-e810-76d0.fixed6.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2022-04-20 16:53:07 +0200 <merijn> posix realtime extensions need OS support to guarantee realtime scheduling behaviour and I'm pretty sure that can be done per thread
2022-04-20 16:53:57 +0200mvk(~mvk@2607:fea8:5ce3:8500::46a8)
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2022-04-20 17:18:10 +0200sprout(~quassel@2a02:a45f:f170:1:48ac:15ef:e810:76d0)
2022-04-20 17:19:11 +0200cdman(~dcm@user/dmc/x-4369397) (Quit: Leaving)
2022-04-20 17:19:47 +0200 <shapr> I had someone ask me yesterday why there's a Data.OldList
2022-04-20 17:20:09 +0200 <shapr> my first guess was that it's from before Foldable was a thing, where the functions were specialized to just []
2022-04-20 17:20:15 +0200 <shapr> does anyone have more info?
2022-04-20 17:21:28 +0200 <lortabac> shapr: where did you find Data.OldList? I don't see it in the docs
2022-04-20 17:21:52 +0200 <lortabac> do you mean GHC.OldList?
2022-04-20 17:22:09 +0200 <shapr> aha, This legacy module provides access to the list-specialised operations of Data.List.
2022-04-20 17:22:12 +0200 <shapr> yes, that one
2022-04-20 17:22:16 +0200 <shapr> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.16.1.0/docs/GHC-OldList.html
2022-04-20 17:23:41 +0200 <lortabac> yes, if I remember correctly it's the old Data.List
2022-04-20 17:24:12 +0200 <shapr> thanks
2022-04-20 17:24:44 +0200lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:499f:4b00:1f1f:2997) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2022-04-20 17:26:11 +0200merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-001.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-04-20 17:26:58 +0200 <abastro[m]> I wonder why they changed functions of Data.List to be polymorphic..
2022-04-20 17:27:42 +0200slac72554(~slack1256@186.11.101.140)
2022-04-20 17:28:21 +0200 <lyxia> One could argue having name conflicts when you import both Data.List and Data.Foldable is not very nice.
2022-04-20 17:29:50 +0200slack1256(~slack1256@191.125.227.87) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2022-04-20 17:30:20 +0200lbseale(~ep1ctetus@user/ep1ctetus)
2022-04-20 17:30:23 +0200slac72554slack1256
2022-04-20 17:30:56 +0200 <abastro[m]> Hmm
2022-04-20 17:31:36 +0200 <abastro[m]> Doesn't container libraries go that route tho?
2022-04-20 17:31:53 +0200 <abastro[m]> Prioritizing qualified imports
2022-04-20 17:33:41 +0200romesrf(~romes@185.5.8.134)
2022-04-20 17:34:23 +0200slac89659(~slack1256@191.125.227.87)
2022-04-20 17:35:03 +0200sammelweis_(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10)
2022-04-20 17:35:32 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2022-04-20 17:38:30 +0200mastarija(~mastarija@2a05:4f46:e04:6000:d842:438e:34b1:6b7f) (Quit: Leaving)
2022-04-20 17:41:06 +0200slac89659slack1256
2022-04-20 17:42:19 +0200_ht(~quassel@231-169-21-31.ftth.glasoperator.nl)
2022-04-20 17:42:34 +0200bitmapper(uid464869@id-464869.lymington.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2022-04-20 17:42:55 +0200 <lyxia> Sure. Hindsight is also 20/20.
2022-04-20 17:45:10 +0200justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy)
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2022-04-20 18:29:33 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ()
2022-04-20 18:32:00 +0200foundationer76(~godoy@181.46.145.183) (Quit: Leaving)
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2022-04-20 18:36:05 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net)
2022-04-20 18:37:34 +0200motherfsck(~motherfsc@user/motherfsck)
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2022-04-20 18:43:03 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
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2022-04-20 18:50:53 +0200anomal(~anomal@87.227.196.109) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-04-20 18:51:55 +0200`2jt(~jtomas@175.red-83-36-129.dynamicip.rima-tde.net)
2022-04-20 18:53:50 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2022-04-20 18:56:55 +0200ph88(~ph88@ip5f5af71f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2022-04-20 18:57:07 +0200ph88(~ph88@ip5f5af71f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Client Quit)
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2022-04-20 19:01:25 +0200pavonia_(~user@user/siracusa)
2022-04-20 19:01:49 +0200qwedfg(~qwedfg@user/qwedfg) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2022-04-20 19:02:25 +0200 <geekosaur> polymorphic Data.List came along with Foldable/Traversable
2022-04-20 19:02:45 +0200`2jt(~jtomas@175.red-83-36-129.dynamicip.rima-tde.net)
2022-04-20 19:02:46 +0200 <geekosaur> since many of its functions are now methods of one or the other
2022-04-20 19:03:10 +0200infinity0(~infinity0@185.112.146.113) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2022-04-20 19:03:10 +0200sweater2(~sweater@206.81.18.26) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2022-04-20 19:03:23 +0200 <geekosaur> the original was saved as GHC.OldList to provide the method implementations for lists
2022-04-20 19:03:31 +0200oxide(~lambda@user/oxide) (Quit: oxide)
2022-04-20 19:03:48 +0200bahamas(~lucian@84.232.140.158)
2022-04-20 19:03:55 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
2022-04-20 19:04:09 +0200ubert(~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf1588a8ad1d2aec8363db05.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2022-04-20 19:04:12 +0200sweater2(~sweater@206.81.18.26)
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2022-04-20 19:04:42 +0200qwedfg(~qwedfg@user/qwedfg)
2022-04-20 19:04:44 +0200pavonia_pavonia
2022-04-20 19:05:59 +0200infinity0(~infinity0@185.112.146.113)
2022-04-20 19:07:59 +0200bahamas(~lucian@84.232.140.158) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-04-20 19:09:52 +0200 <dmj`> is there a way to query the RTS to see if there are exactly 0 forked threads
2022-04-20 19:18:30 +0200bahamas(~lucian@84.232.140.158)
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2022-04-20 19:35:46 +0200pretty_dumm_guy(trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655)
2022-04-20 19:38:04 +0200pretty_dumm_guy(trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655) (Client Quit)
2022-04-20 19:38:22 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-27-3.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-04-20 19:40:53 +0200pretty_dumm_guy(trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655)
2022-04-20 19:40:57 +0200JordiGH(~jordi@user/jordigh)
2022-04-20 19:41:02 +0200pretty_dumm_guy(trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655) (Client Quit)
2022-04-20 19:43:52 +0200pretty_dumm_guy(trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655)
2022-04-20 19:43:52 +0200pretty_dumm_guy(trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655) (Client Quit)
2022-04-20 19:43:55 +0200werneta(~werneta@137.79.201.225)
2022-04-20 19:46:30 +0200acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d0c722df425cfbfca65ef55eb7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2022-04-20 19:47:14 +0200 <Zemyla> How long do I have to wait to get a pull request taken?
2022-04-20 19:47:32 +0200pretty_dumm_guy(trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655)
2022-04-20 19:47:46 +0200 <geekosaur> depends on the repo
2022-04-20 19:48:09 +0200 <geekosaur> and how overloaded the maintainers are, or if they're e.g. at work and can't look at it until evening, or etc.
2022-04-20 19:48:55 +0200nehsou^(~nehsou@50-192-56-193-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
2022-04-20 19:52:45 +0200 <janus> Zemyla: you can file a package takeover request if they aren't responsive after a few months
2022-04-20 19:52:59 +0200econo(uid147250@user/econo)
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2022-04-20 20:00:03 +0200chexum_chexum
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2022-04-20 20:56:09 +0200neurocyte8614492(~neurocyte@IP-045014191203.dynamic.medianet-world.de) (Changing host)
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2022-04-20 21:42:27 +0200TonyStone(~TonyStone@cpe-74-76-51-197.nycap.res.rr.com)
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2022-04-20 22:29:38 +0200 <shapr> hpc: oh, I just saw your yawneda joke, ha!
2022-04-20 22:31:14 +0200 <janus> @yowneda
2022-04-20 22:31:14 +0200 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
2022-04-20 22:32:02 +0200avpx_avpx
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2022-04-20 22:55:37 +0200 <avpx> I'm trying to make a program that accepts an arbitrary number of command-line arguments (think like tar, ls, or other utilities that can take many files on the command line):
2022-04-20 22:55:56 +0200 <avpx> ./myprogram --verbose --someotheroption file1 file2
2022-04-20 22:56:45 +0200 <avpx> I'm unclear how to do it in optparse-applicative. I can see how to get a (Parser String) for one argument using strArgument
2022-04-20 22:56:57 +0200takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-04-20 22:57:42 +0200 <avpx> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/J3ApjwyT
2022-04-20 22:58:16 +0200jmdaemon(~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-04-20 22:59:08 +0200 <avpx> One thought I had was to make a Parser [String] by chaining together an infinite number of Parser Strings. But I'm kind of worried that will make something infinite loop e.g. when printing --help
2022-04-20 22:59:52 +0200 <geekosaur> did youu look at argument parsers?
2022-04-20 23:00:04 +0200 <geekosaur> looks like they're intended for that use case
2022-04-20 23:00:07 +0200merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-001.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-04-20 23:00:48 +0200 <avpx> You mean this one? https://hackage.haskell.org/package/optparse-applicative-0.17.0.0/docs/Options-Applicative.html#v:…
2022-04-20 23:01:25 +0200 <avpx> Yeah I could see how to build a parser for *one* argument using that
2022-04-20 23:01:43 +0200jmdaemon(~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon)
2022-04-20 23:02:51 +0200 <geekosaur> "To accept an arbitrary number of arguments, combine the argument builder with either the many or some combinator" fromthe README
2022-04-20 23:03:02 +0200 <avpx> Oh thannk you!
2022-04-20 23:03:10 +0200 <geekosaur> (remember, some is 1 or more, many is 0 or more)
2022-04-20 23:04:04 +0200 <monochrom> Yeah I used `some (strArgument ...)`
2022-04-20 23:04:13 +0200 <avpx> Interesting, so under the hood it basically is "chaining together an arbitrary number of/Kleene star of strArguments"
2022-04-20 23:04:17 +0200 <geekosaur> and you probably want strArgument unless you're doing special processing duringt parsing
2022-04-20 23:04:24 +0200 <monochrom> Actually `some (strArgument (metavar "FILES" <> help "files to be tested"))` to be exact.
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2022-04-20 23:05:14 +0200 <monochrom> Although, it has been a few years, not sure whether it works under the latest version.
2022-04-20 23:06:10 +0200 <avpx> It works perfectly. Thanks folks!
2022-04-20 23:08:34 +0200Stotteren(~Stotteren@pool-108-20-79-41.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
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2022-04-20 23:13:41 +0200 <hpc> shapr: :D
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2022-04-20 23:35:50 +0200 <energizer> does this function have a common name? `foo f g a b c = g (f a b) (f b c)`
2022-04-20 23:35:53 +0200deadmarshal_(~deadmarsh@95.38.229.55)
2022-04-20 23:37:50 +0200 <energizer> like `foo (<) (&&) 1 2 3` is $$ 1 < 2 < 3 $$
2022-04-20 23:39:27 +0200 <dolio> I don't think so.
2022-04-20 23:40:40 +0200 <energizer> what is a concise way of doing comparison chaining?
2022-04-20 23:41:17 +0200 <Rembane> energizer: Monoids!
2022-04-20 23:41:19 +0200werneta(~werneta@137.79.201.225) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-04-20 23:42:18 +0200 <monochrom> How does Monoid help?
2022-04-20 23:43:06 +0200 <energizer> is there a shorter way than (a < b) && (b < c) ?
2022-04-20 23:43:29 +0200 <energizer> perhaps using the fact that b is shared or that < is shared (or both)
2022-04-20 23:43:35 +0200 <geekosaur> not without writing it yourself, I think
2022-04-20 23:44:03 +0200 <geekosaur> conceivably Monoid could have been used to do it, but it got used for something more general instead
2022-04-20 23:44:04 +0200 <Rembane> monochrom: Not at all, I mixed 'em up. :D
2022-04-20 23:44:34 +0200 <Rembane> A fold perhaps, but for four variables it's not too useful.
2022-04-20 23:45:38 +0200ChaiTRex(~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-04-20 23:46:07 +0200ChaiTRex(~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex)
2022-04-20 23:46:57 +0200werneta(~werneta@137.79.218.82)
2022-04-20 23:48:41 +0200stackdroid18(14094@user/stackdroid)
2022-04-20 23:48:59 +0200 <geekosaur> fold would only work if we had an Icon-like comparison operator setup (which would presumably be Ord a => Either () a)
2022-04-20 23:49:15 +0200deadmarshal_(~deadmarsh@95.38.229.55) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-04-20 23:49:54 +0200 <geekosaur> mm, more generally Either Ordering a
2022-04-20 23:50:38 +0200 <energizer> what about by applying id and flip to (<)
2022-04-20 23:51:34 +0200 <monochrom> You mean id < flip ?
2022-04-20 23:52:07 +0200 <monochrom> Ugh the vagueness of this discussion is too high for me.
2022-04-20 23:52:32 +0200Guest18(~Guest18@dynamic-186-154-26-31.dynamic.etb.net.co)
2022-04-20 23:52:47 +0200 <Rembane> This is not very elegant but could work: f x = all (uncurry (<)) $ zip xs $ tail xs
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2022-04-20 23:55:40 +0200 <geekosaur> I think at this point I just write a bespoke inRange function
2022-04-20 23:55:56 +0200 <geekosaur> rather than try to get tricky with operators
2022-04-20 23:56:15 +0200 <geekosaur> come to think of it, there should already be one in Data.Ix
2022-04-20 23:56:21 +0200 <hpc> :t on
2022-04-20 23:56:21 +0200 <geekosaur> @hoogle inRange
2022-04-20 23:56:22 +0200 <lambdabot> Data.Ix inRange :: Ix a => (a, a) -> a -> Bool
2022-04-20 23:56:22 +0200 <lambdabot> GHC.Arr inRange :: Ix a => (a, a) -> a -> Bool
2022-04-20 23:56:22 +0200 <lambdabot> GHC.Ix inRange :: Ix a => (a, a) -> a -> Bool
2022-04-20 23:56:22 +0200 <lambdabot> (b -> b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> a -> a -> c
2022-04-20 23:56:38 +0200 <hpc> :t over
2022-04-20 23:56:40 +0200 <lambdabot> ASetter s t a b -> (a -> b) -> s -> t
2022-04-20 23:56:47 +0200 <hpc> hmm, on is almost it
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